A new turn in the Ukraine war and a strange claim on the ABC debate
Link to quote: Kamala Harris-Donald Trump Debate Was Rigged? ABC Whistleblower Claims Surface (msn.com)
Let me first dispense with this unproven allegation which first appeared on social media.
The story is now starting to appear in print media. Basically, someone who calls themselves "Black Insurrectionist" has issue the following statement:
"I will be releasing an affidavit from an ABC whistleblower regarding the debate. I have just signed a non-disclosure agreement with the attorney of the whistleblower. The affidavit states how the Harris campaign was given sample question which were essentially the same questions that were given during the debate and separate assurances of fact checking Donald Trump and that she would NOT be fact checked.
Accordingly, the affidavit states several other factors that were built into the debate to give Kamala a significant advantage. I have seen and read the affidavit and after the attorney blacks out the name of the whistleblower and other information that could dox the whistleblower, I will release the full affidavit. I will be releasing the affidavit before the weekend is out."
Kamala Harris-Donald Trump Debate Was Rigged? ABC Whistleblower Claims Surface (msn.com)
This claim has yet to be verified. The claim was made in a very unprofessional manner. I don't even like to highlight such stories until they are proven, but I only mention this one because I still recall when Donna Brazile provided Hillary Clinton with answers and IMO ABC is capable of doing something like this. Even more in my mind was that little conversation the Harris campaign had with ABC before agreeing to the debate:
"ABC News has offered assurances to the Harris campaign that if there is significant cross talk between Harris and Trump, the network may choose to turn on the mics so that the public can understand what is happening, the moderator would discourage either candidate from interrupting constantly and the moderator would also work to explain to viewers what is being said, according to the source familiar," CNN reported.
The source allegedly added that pool reporters will also be in the room to report on what could be heard while mics are muted to TV audiences.
An ABC spokesperson told Fox News Digital, "Beyond the debate rules published today, which were mutually agreed upon by two campaigns on May 15, we have made no other agreements. We look forward to moderating the presidential debate next Tuesday."
Harris campaign agrees to ABC presidential debate rules with some 'assurances:' report | Fox News
Harris won the debate, yet didn't get much if any bump. The media must be angry, and the Harris campaign wants another debate. Many people say they still don't know what she stands for.
On to the Russian fortunes of war.
Not since the early months of the war have front lines shifted as swiftly as they have in the past several weeks. The front lines had been stagnant for many months up until recently. in February, Russia broke through a dense maze of Ukrainian defenses in the city of Avdiivka, an industrial city that had been a Ukrainian stronghold since 2014. Russia ground through defensive positions in fields east of Pokrovsk, a city built around a crucial road and railroad junction, this summer. This is a very serious matter for Ukraine.
Ukraine was in a tough spot and responded with a risky surprise attack in the north. Troops surged into Russia, hoping to draw forces away from the battle for Pokrovsk. Unfortunately, Russian forces didn't take the bait.
For the military details, I like the way the strategy game maker ( Kings & Generals ) presents it:
President Biden is poised to let Ukraine launch long range western weapons deep into Russia, as long as it doesn’t use U.S.-provided arms, officials said.
In other news:
Israel conducted a raid in Syria that obliterated a Hezbollah missile production facility near the Lebanese border, according to American officials.
Donald Trump, campaigning in Arizona, called for the elimination of taxes on overtime.
Alabama has mailed the first absentee ballots for the 2024 election, which is a distant 53 days away.
Speaker Mike Johnson faces a Sept. 30 deadline to fund the government. He’s caught between a hard right that wants to cut spending and mainstream Republicans who fear a shutdown will be blamed on them, endangering their reelection.
Polio is spreading quickly through Pakistan.
Boeing workers are striking for the first time since 2008.
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Good morning.
The New York City police commissioner is stepping down.
Federal agents seized his cellphone last week as part of an investigation into his twin brother’s nightclub security business. The federal investigation is one of four that touch top city officials. Others involve the mayor’s dealings with Turkey, and the head of the school system. I don't think I have to mention the condition of the state's legal system.
... and yet it leads your article. would it really matter, since the maga cult leader can't answer any direct questions? this past debate was an example of role reversal from the last trump/biden debate. only this time trump was demonstrating his age and lack of focus. he failed in showing the voters he is ready for the office, again, with his lack of preparation, his inability to stay on topic, any degree of professionalism and a complete lack of appearing anywhere close to being presidential. despite his claims now that he won the debate, it is now crystal clear to any viewer that trump is unfit to lead.
If I was a "progressive," I would want that rumor proven false. Wouldn't you?
That is why it is important.
I am progressive and I don't think any time needs to be wasted on baseless maga conspiracies...
I would have gone with the "kamala's earrings were earphones used to give her the answers" theory...
I think a hoax needs to be nipped in the bud. Look at how many still believe the Russia hoax.
probably 90% of libs here, and more like 50% in real life.
Agreed.
tell bill barr, he didn't help the maga cause by redacting the mueller report and then classifying parts of it.
Tell Andrew Weissmann that we want all those text messages the Mueller team deleted.
Sure, right after Hillary 'fesses up and tells how she started the Russian hoax thing!
You know, the hoax liberals largely drank up.
The former 'president's' consigliere
As a Great man used to say
DITTO!
is that an euphemism for protection rackets?
What?
That's sure what it sounds like
Pollster and former Clinton strategist Mark Penn called on ABC News to hire an outside law firm to look into internal communication between the network and the Harris campaign and to "what extent" they planned on "rigging the outcome of this debate."
"I actually think they should do a full internal investigation, hire an outside law firm. I don't know how much of this was planned in advance," Penn told the 'John Solomon Reports' podcast.
"I don't know what they told the Harris campaign," Penn said. "I think the day after, suspicion here is really quite high, and I think a review of all their internal texts and emails really should be done by an independent party to find out to what extent they were planning on, in effect, you know, fact-checking just one candidate and in effect, rigging the outcome of this debate. I think the situation demands nothing less than that."
Mark Penn: ABC News Should Do A Full Investigation Into Debate, "I Don't Know What They Told The Harris Campaign" | Video | RealClearPolitics
trump lost. he should gracefully exit the race and let his VP take the lead... /s
Why? The media will go after Vance in the same vicious way.
lol - there's going to be a massive blue wave
It was a joy to see Kamala kick his ass and kick him in the nuts too. She thrashed him soundly and thoroughly!
yeah, but the chances of vance stroking out in front of a camera are much less... /s
'gracefully exit'
He hasn't admitted losing. It was a three on one - poor baby - can't handle the truth being pointed out to him.
The looks on his face when she was talking about his rallies - WOW - that opened the floodgates.
Her expressions and smile and perfect composure - as the former 'president' convicted felon and rapist and traitor threw a hissy fit for all to see - and she never ever lost her cool. SIMPLY AWESOME.
that maga cult leader is still pushing the debunked racist meme of immigrants eating everybody's pets...
it's like he's trying to lose now. what a fucking moron ...
I read one commentator say that Trump cleaned his own clock and when he was done Kamala cleaned his clock and when she was done the two ABC moderators cleaned his clock.
Yet independents who watched say they still don't know anything about Harris.
But I saw it on TV!
I saw some of jd's trumpsplanations but I got kind of lost after the first minute of pretzel twisting.
Still unproven but has little to do with Biden and Harris sidestepping congress to bring in Haitians and overwhelming America with them.
So very true. She didn't answer questions and I doubt she moved the needle much on Independents/undecided. She was good at attacking & blaming Trump so she gets points for that. November is still gonna be close.
Kamala's reaction was hilarious there too - the looks and the gestures and the - you could practically read her thoughts 'that crazy stupid mo fo just said what?'
and another time - I forget which - she said something and almost slipped when she was saying the former 'president' - I don't know what it was - but Stephen Colbert nailed it - in his monologue. There was no question though absolutely whatsoever she won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Proved to the world she can do the job.
'still unproven'
WOW
So, its Haitians overwhelming America now? I thought it was just Springfield.
By winning a debate?
Oh, like Biden did, eh.
Oh, wait, Biden was forced out.........
I don;t get where winning a debate proves you can be President.
That is some very twisted (and I hesitate to use this word) 'logic'!
That's why you said Joe Biden couldn't do the job.
By allegedly losing the debate.
Now you want to investigate the debate that you just admitted Kamala won because she couldn't have won unless it was rigged.
Gee, I'm confused.
What job would that be? Not sure taunting and eye-rolling are part of the criteria for PotUS eligibility
Doesn't
After reading (!) his posts, it became clear Biden was proven to be everything we had been saying all along, and that is why Biden couldn't do the job. It never was because he 'lost the debate'.
Nope. I said Biden enacted horrible radical policies. If Biden did nothing as president, I wouldn't have any problems with him.
Now you want to investigate the debate that you just admitted Kamala won because she couldn't have won unless it was rigged.
Gee, I'm confused.
I'm sorry to hear it.
Yep, like she has done such a bangup job on our Southern Border the last 3+ years. She actively avoided any meaningful comments on that subject during the debate, at least the very few the moderators chose to ask her about anyway.
I know what you said.
[✘]
Who was POTUS 5 years ago when the Haitians were given the legal right to enter the country?
It's not Biden or Harris.
It was illegal for Haitians to enter the country when Obama was President?
There is no proof. Same as there is no proof that there are states executing babies after they are born. It's all BS and you buy it? Really?
These particular Haitians came to Mexico 5 years ago, stayed in México per Trump's Wait in Mexico program,
acquired the necessary apps to get their legal CB1s to legally enter the USA to seek work and answered the call from Springfield OH to fill at least 20,000 job openings, literally saving the town and County.
They are President Trump's guests and neither Biden or Harris side stepped Congress as Vic stated, nor are the Haitians overwhelming America.
That's just hysterical partisan BS.
Thanks for the off topic deflection.
Link please. Thank you.
They came to Springfield OH in 2019 and 2020, no link necessary,
if you remember who was POTUS in 2019 and 2020 and what the rules were at the border.
Funny, that’s not what the mainstream media is reporting. please support your claim that all the Haitians in Springfield arrive in 2019 and 2020.
Again proof.
That's equally funny since you don't trust the mainstream media and use sources like X (Twitter).
That's equally disingenuous because nowhere have I ever stated that "all the Haitians" arrived in Springfield in 2019 or 2020.
The first Haitians arrived to Springfield in 2018 because Springfield was begging for help. Others were made to Wait in Mexico starting in December 2018. All complied with Trump's rules and entered the country lawfully under TPS.
TPS for Haitians existed long before 2018
Most Haitians can still enter the US legally any time they complete the paperwork and pass the background checks.
The Biden Administration extended the Haitian TPS 18 months in part due to requests from the city of Springfield and Clark County of Ohio.
Executive Office for Immigration Review | Temporary Protected Status (TPS) (justice.gov)
Haitians have been eligible for TPS since 2010.
The local businesses seem to prefer the Haitians.
I hope this helps your "discovery".
Again you can digest 2.1.34
or go back to the other article where you ignored a similar answer
Biden was president in. 2020.
Totally immaterial at this point but Trump was inaugurated on 01/20/17 and served as President until
01/20/2021.
Neither Biden, Harris, Trump or Pence invited these particular workers to Springfield.
No one dumped them by the thousands in Ohio.
They came here legally using the programs made available to them by the Immigration Act of 1990 under George Bush the elder.
Springfield OH and Clark County and neighboring cities like Dayton OH advertised for workers and they came.
The only thing worse than spreading fear and lies about Haitians eating cats and dogs is that JD Vance and Donald trump are not only spreading that lie, but they are purposely lying about the Haitians being "dumped' in Springfield by Biden & Harris.
The level of deliberate misinformation from those two is amazing. Vance the newish Senator could be excused for lack of experience in how shit works in D.C. but Trump as the former POTUS has no excuse IMHO.
I guess we are done beating this dead horse.
One of the most basic political facts and somehow you get it wrong while attempting to engage in partisan finger-pointing.
actually think they should do a full internal investigation, hire an outside law firm. I don't know how much of this was planned in advanc
The thing is abc doesn’t care. They helped their team and don’t think it’s their job to be objective.
It is much easier to call it a "conspiracy theory."
Then again, if there really is one of their own giving out info ...
If there is another debate, let Fox moderate it with the same rules as last week as far as the muted mike. Harris would probably refuse a debate put on by Fox because she would lose her home court advantage media wise like she had with the last one.
It didn't matter, Trump kept talking and kept getting additional time to rebut the rebuttals.
He ended up with 5 more minutes than Harris and rarely answered the questions.
Exactly - they told the former 'president' at least one time that I caught, I admit, I didn't watch the entire debate, but most of it, and when they told him he had a minute to rebut something Kamala said, it was waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more than a minute. They just let him ramble and rant and lie and attack.
Fact is they both lied through their teeth.
That is a matter of opinion.
That it is.
The only thing anyone will remember is the whopper that Haitians ( that came into the country during his Administration starting in 2018) were eating American cats and dogs.
More than one Trump handler in the Convention Center wings probably started looking for another job.
We do not have issues with Hiatians down here on my neck of the Southwestern border, but I'll tell you what we will remember and that is her and Joe Biden throwing the legal residents here on the border under the bus on illegal immigration. The fact that she refused to acknowledge the problems she and Biden created, but then again the pet biased ABC moderators in that debate pretty much refused to direct any questions to her on that.
Really, someone seriously needs to look into that! Investigate the debate. The only way he could have lost. It was rigged.
Really?
If you say so.
CDS...
The whistleblower claim is almost certainly fake news, but given the history of media and the dnc colluding to rig debates, Ita impossible to rule out.
Honestly, there’s no way Harris could have performed that poorly if she had the questions in advance. She arguably didn’t actually answer a single question asked of her. I’m sure her handlers would have scripted at least one responsive answer if they knew the questions.
That is exactly the way I feel about it as well.
Honestly, there’s no way Harris could have performed that poorly if she had the questions in advance. She arguably didn’t actually answer a single question asked of her. I’m sure her handlers would have scripted at least one responsive answer if they knew the questions.
She displayed a lot of self-confidence that night.
Meh, another campaign promise that has no hope of actually being passed by Congress and thereby set into law. I do wonder if the Harris campaign will try to talk about the same thing like they did on eliminating taxes on tips.
IMO until they get a handle on spending they should not be talking about tax cuts.
A night in Arizona:
too bad he thought he was in pennsylvania, while he doubled down on immigrants eating peoples pets...
Pennsylvania...Arizona....sounding it out in my mind
they're not even close in sounding alike and they are miles apart both alphabetically and geographically
'the former 'president' absolutely unloads'
he's always unloading piles of shit every time he opens his rectum of a mouth
The PD&D+delusion 'campaign' tour continues.
What a doddering old fool. Where does he discuss policy during this 'campaign' stop? Nothing but lie after lie after lie after lie after lie after lie
What a hateful disgusting old 'man' he is. I don't see him talking about policy here. Let me know if I'm missing anything. It's been all about him, as usual.
What a waste of a human being.
He didn't answer any direct questions on Tuesday night...but then again VP Harris didn't always answer questions either. But she sure made him look like a doddering old fool
There are much more serious issues right now than if the candidates drill down on their "policies". If policies are all that matter we could elect Charlie Manson president as long as he promised policies conservatives like.
I watched most of the 'campaign' event that vic posted above where the former felon unloads -
- and no where did he talk policy, no where. He was just 'unloading' like he always does.
Policies make or break a Presidency.
"She arguably didn’t actually answer a single question asked of her."
And that is a very big problem for her. The undecideds and independents still are waiting to hear what she believes in and what she intends to do as president. She can't continue to hide from the voters and pretend she is a moderate.
I don' think it is. They don't care.They cheer when moderators cheat for her and say "who cares, stop complaining." They have no integrity and only care about the talking point that Harris won, by means fair or foul. CNN literally gave HRC debate questions prior to a debate and they didn't care.
They cheer when she refuses to do interviews. They call her positions from when she was campaigning for THIS term of office "ancient history" as if no one could possibly be expected to maintain a position for an entire term of office. No matter what she says or does, she'll have their vote.
David Muir and Lindsey Davis did nothing to force Donald Trump to wear an asshat and act like a buffoon. You'd think Donald Trump was a 4 star general the way he behaved at the debate. Anonymous whistleblowers won't change a damn thing about Donald Trump blowing the debate. Donald Trump proved he has the gravitas of a chimpanzee picking its ass and flinging monkey shit. Trying to make Donald Trump look good is a foolish waste of time. The man is an idiot and, obviously, prefers being thought of as an idiot. So, let him have what he wants.
And even after proving himself to be a complete and total idiot, Donald Trump is still the best choice. Even giving Kamala Harris any edge possible won't magically transform her into a substantive candidate. Harris completely failed that test during the 2020 primaries. Rigging the debate could never turn Kamala Harris into something she is not. That's why the election is still close.
“And even after proving himself to be a complete and total idiot, Donald Trump is still the best choice.”
In your incredibly inconceivable world. How do so many attempt to reconcile the ‘complete and total idiot’ as the ‘best choice’ ?
Has your life devolved under Democrat leadership to the point where you are willing to accept what another trump term promises?
yeah, maybe we need a Democrat again because we just don't have enough immigrants we can't afford to support.
“…we just don't have enough immigrants we can't afford to support.”
trump promises mass deportation of tens of millions, due process never addressed. The cost to our economy, also never addressed, would be devastating. The cost to our heritage, also never addressed, would be catastrophic.
Illegal immigration is an extremely serious and complex issue that will require serious conversation to properly address the myriad problems after decades of partisan polemics…trump is not the serious, credible nor conciliatory leader who can address anything past his own self serving agenda.
What?!?
Donald Trump has a very Nerdish type personality. Seems rather obvious that Trump has no clue about empathy, emotional intelligence, or social graces; a common characteristic attributed to nerds. But Trump does approach problems as an engineer. Trump has the talent and skills to recognize and focus attention on fundamental problems influencing complex issues. Trump has demonstrated that he knows how to get things done.
Kamala Harris, on the other hand, exhibits a very cliquish type of personality; a California cool snobbery. Harris is master of put-downs, insults, and throwing shade. Harris engages in the kind of bullying that motivates school shootings. Kamala Harris is all snob and no substance. Harris hasn't demonstrated any more empathy or emotional intelligence than Trump. That shouldn't be surprising since prosecutors must be cold hearted autocrats to do their jobs.
It really is easier to have faith that Donald Trump will address problems and will get things done. You know, Steve Jobs was a similar type of asshole as Donald Trump. So is Bill Gates. But it's not necessary to like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates to recognize they addressed real problems, produced superior solutions, and got things done.
[deleted][✘]
Imaginary bull
This guy thinks he’s supporting immigrants.
The Effects of Immigration on the United States’ Economy
Research Shows Immigrants Benefit U.S. Taxpayers
The Fiscal Impact of Immigration in the United States
Lets start with the most basic question, do you know the difference between legal immigrant and illegal immigrants?
Nice list. The problem is not letting these people work while they are being processed. They work, they support themselves and local economies and pay taxes. Rather they get to be political pawns as they turn to other measures to live.
And in the real world, cities are cutting services to residents to support illegal immigrants.
[✘]
How about you start with reading what was written. Do you see the word “illegal” in the post I replied to? It’s 7.1.1.
And how many bankrupt businesses has he left in his wake?
“In the real world” of your imagination?
This is the kind of madness that props up a guy like Trump. I supply actual data from good sources, but since they don’t conform to your “real” worldview where strangers are preying on you, it must be fake news or something.
As long as people keep rejecting documented, verifiable facts, there may be no hope for us.
So, you want perfection? The pursuit of perfection is how politicians kick the can and never accomplish anything.
Trump is on the debate stage because he overcame failures. Harris is on the debate stage because someone else failed and was punished. So, which one would you rather gamble on running the country? Someone who overcomes failure or someone who personally benefits from the failure of others?
You need documentation cities claiming that migrants are costing them money and necessitating budget cuts? Really?
This took one second:
Laugh all you want, but no one is paying for MY shelter, food and medical expenses like we are for aliens.
I would rather that money be spent on needy citizens.
Here's another:
it is simply undeniable and wrong that tax dollars are spent this way.
“As long as people keep rejecting documented, verifiable facts, there may be no hope for us.”
The trump legacy.
Long after his inevitable self immolation, historians will debate how one so incompetent was able to tap into the deepest, darkest parts of our consciousness for his gain.
Either we learn from it or we are complicit in burning it all down.
But we want to conflate legal immigrants with the feral cats that most are talking about to make some bullshit point.
What pray tell did trmp accomplish in his 4 years?
Slaves were immigrants. And slavery greatly benefited the economy. Slaves took jobs and displaced workers, too. Those are also verifiable facts.
Slavery was good for employers. Slavery was good for consumers. Slavery was good for political government and the political parties (Democrats in particular). But the resounding economic success of slavery was never intended to benefit slaves.
The economic facts being tossed around concerning immigration praises the benefits to employers, consumers, and political government. Democrats are using immigrants to bolster their economic arguments the same way Democrats used slaves. Those really are verifiable comparisons and facts, too.
Or believing nonsense like Russian collusion and mythical pee tapes.
The desperation is palpable.
(And that was not my quote…surely you of all people would respect that)
Did he not invest money in and fast track a vaccine and then remove barriers to market they may have saved thousands of lives? Did he not issue a EO to make thousands of ventilators that may have saved thousands of people?
Have you heard the one about the apples and the oranges?
When you don’t care about facts.
No, they were prisoners. Victims. You think they were immigrants?? WTF!
Please don’t say slavery was “good” for anyone. There’s nothing good about it.
Facts?
It is a fact we are supporting immigrants.
You may choose to ignore facts all you wish, but I won't
Trump convinced Republicans to impose a tax increase on more affluent Americans by limiting SALT deductions. Arguing that the tax increase was inconsequential ignores that it represents a tectonic shift within the Republican Party.
Trump also convinced Republicans to lower taxes on business without including tax cuts on income (real or unrealized). Those tax cuts really did spur repatriation of corporate profits held offshore and investment in domestic business.
Trump also used tariffs to tax imports and punish domestic businesses threatening to move out of the country. The tariffs really did establish incentives for American businesses to create jobs in the country.
Trump nominated judges and SCOTUS justices that renewed the original intent of state's rights in the Constitution. Contrary to Democratic misinformation, SCOTUS did not criminalize abortion. The issue of abortion is now subject to the democratic will of the people and no longer the purview of autocratic, undemocratic decree.
Trump engaged in diplomacy with adversaries of the United States. As a result, North Korea stopped firing missiles, Russia engaged in cooperation in northern Iraq, and China was put on notice. Trump formally recognized the government of Taiwan, Jerusalem as capital of Israel, and NATO has a drain on the United States.
Trump's hard line stance on immigration really did throttle irregular immigration. Barriers really do work otherwise there wouldn't be fences around the White House or Biden's beach house.
There are a lot of other things Trump accomplished but listing more would just be a waste of time.
I don't give a damn if they are legal or not, we shouldn't be paying one thin dime for them.
In the aggregate, it is not a fact. I supplied you with proof, but you choose to ignore it.
this is false.
I didnt ignore it.
My point is and always will be this.
Immigrants should be fully self supporting, period. Not one thin dime until we take care of our own first.
No, in the very real world of easily looked up facts.
none of those things benefited me or were things I wanted done
'has demonstrated he knows how to get things done'
What exactly????????????????
Better call Mayor Adams and denounce him as a liar.
Maybe the mayors of Denver, Chicago, too!
Tacos said we aren't paying anything for them!
“Slaves were immigrants.”
Ignorant does not begin to describe this take.
’Slaves’ (read human beings), were shackled, chained and removed from their homes, their families and their culture…only to be mistreated and tortured and abused as a commodity.
Our friend Kavika may have a more compelling take as to how those in power treated those with no voice.
Our history is rife with lies, broken promises, and self serving deception. Let us learn from our broken past and strive to be better. For all of us…regardless of color, gender, history, religion or anything else that some choose to believe is a point of division in their privilege
[deleted][✘]
That's absolutely disgusting.
Well add this one to the list of lies. Over a quarter of British colonists were prisoners and debtors involuntarily transported to the American colonies. They weren't immigrants by your criteria.
Barack Obama created the DACA program, using an undemocratic EO, for children who were involuntarily brought to the United States by illegal immigrants. Some of those covered by DACA are even indigenous people. Are they immigrants?
" Immigration strengthens the U.S. economy and contributes to greater prosperity for all Americans . Immigrants help create jobs, raise wages, reduce inflation, and increase productivity and innovation . Immigrants boost virtually every sector of the econom y , and they play particularly important roles in critical sectors like healthcare, food production and agriculture, construction, and emerging fields like semiconductors"
Immigration Benefits All Americans and Strengthens the Economy - Fwd.us
[ ✘ ] I believe the loudest voices against immigrants are likely being supported by immigrants, even the undocumented immigrants that pay billions into our social security fund that millions of bitter racist rightwing conservatives rely on every day to keep them alive and able to afford their crap beer and cigarettes.
" Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits "
"According to New American Economy, undocumented immigrants contributed $13 billion into the Social Security funds in 2016 and $3 billion to Medicare ."
Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits - Marketplace
Only progressives can ignore cities cutting services because migrants are costing so much and still claim they are a net monetary positive. Just willful blindness.
Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers a NET of 150 billion dollars a year.
"The Federation for American Immigration Reform is a nonprofit, anti-immigration organization in the United States. "
There is no link to the actual study that this anti-immigration group supposedly did in the link you provide. I don't refute that there is money paid to support immigrants including the millions who were brought here as children which no doubt is included in this number but not even their article claims it's a "NET" cost because that would be a hilariously flawed reading of their article and something only a complete moron would conclude. None of the article includes the actual benefits to the economy that immigrants provide.
Lol. Imagine complaining about biased sources after what you posted...
v en their article claims it's a "NET" cost because that would be a hilariously flawed reading of their article and something only a complete moron would conclude
Lol. All the insults in the world can't cover for you.
if what you claim is all true, what city anywhere would ever have to cut any services for taxpayers?
If they cost NOTHING, why would New York be begging for federal funds?
And before you say one word about the source, it is CNN, and if that is 'too progressive' of a site you can always Google it yourself.
NY says it needs $3 billion from federal government in coming years to respond to thousands of asylum seekers | CNN
I am fully aware that I may not be current with the 'new' math, but pretty sure if it was free, NY wouldn't be asking.
Yeah, what an idiotic claim. If that claim were true cities would be begging tor illegals.
.................and not for federal funds.
The pro illegal lobby is simply divorced from reality. The real world is the best possible proof.
Everything you quoted was and is true.
According to the Crown they were "just colonists" not Englishman with the same rights as other Englishmen or loyal Tories. All colonists were considered immigrants by the Native American Indian Nations.
There is no such thing as an undemocratic EO. EO's are either found Constitutional or they aren't.
If they aren't American citizens or members of recognized Northa American tribes they are of course, immigrants.
SCOTUS has determined that the EO was illegal and that DACA could no longer continue. Unfortunately Biden does not obey things he does not like.
BS and quite the opposite of reality.
Facts, not hearsay or opinions.
Deflection, no one mentioned Biden.
First, the previous link I was replying to and talking about did not have the new link you provided and it did not use the term "net" anywhere in the article as I said. Second, the new link you provided to the supposedly FAIR groups study was egregiously poor in its calculation and is frankly nothing but a partisan group doing simple addition to try and describe a very complex issue. No where do they factor in what my link confirms, that:
" Immigration helps grow and strengthen the U.S. economy. In the simplest terms, more people spending money on goods and services increases the U.S.' gross domestic product (GDP), one of the most important measures of our economy's health. In turn, the increased demand for goods and services can spur the creation of new businesses and more jobs. One study found that immigrants account for 17% of U.S. GDP , amounting to $3.3 trillion."
It does not show how much that even undocumented immigrants do to keep down inflation. How much do you think your produce would cost if every farm was paying American citizens to pick their lettuce? How many Americans are preparing their kids to be produce pickers on a seasonal basis?
" Simply put, the U.S. cannot grow its workforce without increasing immigration. Immigrants made up 18.1% of the overall labor force in 2022, a sizable share that has increased in recent years and continues to increase. Because immigrants are more likely to be working age , they help fill gaps in the workforce, particularly in certain critical industries."
The uproar over the LEGAL Haitian immigrants that Trump and his vile deplorable base are screaming and lying about proves they are nothing but racists and that this isn't just about undocumented immigrants costing the government supposedly $150 billion (which is widely disputed, and the clearly biased FAIR group has yet to actually show the method of their supposed study). Even if what they say is true, the FACT is that overall immigration is a HUGE boon to our nation, but of course rancid pig fucker racists will never accept such facts because they hate any outsiders, especially if they're black or brown. You don't see them demanding a wall built in the north between the US and Canada do you? Up to 5.5 million or about 48% of the undocumented immigrants come from Visa overstays not crossing the border illegally and while overstaying a Visa is wrong, it's not actually a crime.
" According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million foreigners entered the United States with a legal visa , accounting for between 33 and 48% of the total unauthorized migrant population. [ 99 ] Visa overstays tend to be somewhat more educated and better off financially than those who entered the country illegally. [ 106 ] In most instances, overstaying a visa is a civil "wrong" and not necessarily a crime , though the person is still subject to deportation for unlawful presence"
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia
So immigrants add up to $3.3 TRILLION to our GDP but at worst undocumented immigrants may be costing us $150 billion which is a small drop in the bucket when compared to the benefits of immigration to our country. The only real reason Trump and rightwing conservatives are opposed to immigrants and refuse to reform our immigration process to allow more immigrants to legally come into our country is because they're racists, it's that simple, so trying to hide behind study's and numbers won't cut it anymore, not to people with more than half a brain. Sure, it's easy to fool the uneducated bigots that Trump loves, but the rest of us can see what a load of crap he's selling, and I find it sad that so many embrace his shitty rhetoric.
"We won the poorly educated vote. I love the poorly educated" - Donald J Trump
Yes, yes he does.
The election is close because too many Americans feel better about themselves when they think other groups of people are the cause of their problems - e.g., LGBT people are preying on our children, immigrants are taking our jobs, etc. Trump validates their prejudice with his lies. They eagerly accept these lies even though he has been proven repeatedly to be the most prolific liar in our political history. Trump makes it ok for his supporters to hate and fear other people.
They are. Why else would LGBTQ+++ issues be causing angst in parents of school children? LGBTQ+++ books cannot be banned from school libraries if they aren't preying on our children. How many sexually active six year olds are there in the country? And why isn't that a fucking problem?
They are. Why else would migrants risk irregular (and thus illegal) immigration? It doesn't seem plausible that migrants are illegally entering the country for reasons other than jobs.
'They' is a broad brush that paints both the left and right with political misinformation and outright lies. In case no one noticed, Trump ain't the only fearmonger on the debate stage. Kamala Harris contributed her share of hate and fear to the political history.
What a sad tragedy that you think so.
Generations of prejudice.
Try a little logic for a moment. If Americans - who are already here - took the jobs first, they wouldn’t be available for immigrants, legal or otherwise.
You happily insist that LGBT people are preying on children, and immigrants are taking our jobs, but now you object to painting with a broad brush? Oy!
In any event, the only “they” I referenced was Trump supporters. I presented no misinformation or lies, either directly or indirectly. In fact, your own prejudice validates the very point I made about Trump.
Your whataboutism notwithstanding, Harris - like any normal, sane politician - wants people to fear what her political opponent will do. Trump wants people to hate and fear whole classes of regular people. It’s entirely different.
'Try a little logic'
Here is what makes it close:
A young woman was interviewed yesterday about inflation and the cost of food. At the end the interviewer asked who she was voting for.
She said: "Who cares about the price of food, I have a great job, and I'll pay more as long as I don't have to listen to Trump."
I could vote up that part of your comment.
CNN posted Donalds answer to the same questions in next to the Harris debate.
He looked absolutely electable in 2016, this week not at all. It's been a rough 9 years.
And you lost my vote with the next passage, sorry.
Yeah, until I see proof, this is bullshit. Trump has already been saying this shit out loud, and it smacks of the kind of garbage he always says when things don’t go his way. Everything he doesn’t win was “rigged.”
But just for the sake of argument, let’s assume it was true. This wasn’t a trivia contest where they were asking candidates to name something obscure like the Undersecretary of Senegal’s Ministry of the Interior (i made that up). They asked very general questions on topics we know are familiar to both candidates. Abortion, immigration, Ukraine, health care, and so on. Both candidates talk publicly on a daily basis about everything that came up during the debate. It’s hard to imagine how getting the questions in advance could have helped.
The questions they asked were pretty obvious to predict. Harris was prepared for all the obvious topics. Trump thought he could bullshit!
Remember this is the same guy that called in glowing reviews about himself to the news and magazines way back when, so we know he's capable of stooping to lower and lower depths.
Another good point on why it's very unlikely the questions were actually leaked. As I said earlier, God help Harris if that's the best she can do knowing the questions in advance. Besides that now we know the moderators had made a premeditated decision to intervene on Harris' behalf. Moreover, simply selecting topics and what questions to ask make any sort of overt collusion unnecessary.
Nothing but another excuse as to why trump got his ass kicked. Justify it how you will but trump got his ass kicked. Just accept it and move on.
Joe Biden won the debate because Trump had the questions in advance....
Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
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Do you have any documented evidence of this claim? We know that one candidate has been accused of sexually assaulting over two dozen women, is an accused rapist, we all heard him admit on tape that he grabs women he finds attractive "by the pussy", has cheated on all three of his wives, paid hundreds of thousands to porn stars to keep his infidelity from being known during a political campaign, is a known prolific liar, has run half a dozen businesses into bankruptcy, had his charity fined for millions and shut down, been found guilty of 34 felonies, said of a known convicted child molester " I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” "He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life”.
But instead of talking about any of that, [ deleted because of context ] [ ✘ ] You ignore her MANY accomplishments and attempt to slut shame her because you hate other Americans who happen to be liberals, progressives and Democrats, it's as simple as that. I guess some can't admit to the actual facts about their own candidate because it would be extremely inconvenient to do so [ deleted ]
[ ✘ ] Posts Mislead About Harris' Romance with Willie Brown - FactCheck.org
It's deplorable as well as anyone who votes up that ignorant shit
.... likely constitutes the vast majority of his base......
fucking A
No I don't. I just hate those that hate this country.
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[✘] It is just like you hating to other true Americans who happen to be conservatives, patriots and Republicans. (Or anyone else that does not adhere to your ideology)
removed for context SP
Ya know what they call killing babies after they are born?
A school shooting.
The Harris campaign suggested another debate immediately after the first. Well before any polls were available.
It should be obvious by now what she stands for. How many times must she make the point that she is for opening opportunities in the middle and lower classes in terms of starting businesses, getting proper education, home ownership, consumer protection, etc.? That is the fundamental principle of her candidacy and thus one should expect her policies as PotUS to reflect this principle.
Agreement or disagreement with these future policies is another matter.
Kind of depend on what day it is, and what audience she has.
An 'opportunity economy'. Whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.
On immigration and securing the border, no need for words, her record is clear. She has now embraced building the wall, and claims to be tough on immigration.
She has flipped on mandates for electric vehicles.
Flipped on insurance.
More government spending.
Against, no, make that for fracking.
The rest of her agenda will be much like Biden's.
If she doesn't flip-flop on them again.
I literally explained that in my comment.
Correct.
I would expect her, and every other politician, to modify positions as circumstances change. Much better to adjust than to dogmatically cling to positions just because partisans will cry 'flip-flop'.
Correct. There is no party of fiscal responsibility in the USA anymore.
Would you prefer that she push to eliminate fracking? Seems to me the smart move is to encourage renewable energy and migrate away from fossil fuels at a sensible pace.
Not likely; Harris (like every other PotUS) will almost certainly govern as she sees fit rather than try to mimic Biden's method. If she continues to push for responsible measures regarding climate change, renewable energy, infrastructure, etc. then I will be pleased. If she tries to forgive student loans, or engage in massive spending that is not constructive (i.e. merely government handouts) then I will not be pleased.
Harris is a liberal D and one should expect that her decisions will reflect her ideology while pragmatically dealing with the current circumstances. So while she will naturally operates from a liberal perspective, she will likely factor in politics and other practical considerations. And that will cause you et. al. to whine that she is flip-flopping rather than applaud her moving more to your liking.
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Do you pay any attention whatsoever to her speeches? My explanation came from her speeches. So I would expect that her official campaign comments would also match her speeches.
Where do I claim that she has been tough on the border? Comment on what I actually write.
You cannot figure out what I meant with a single word sentence ( 'Correct.') in response to a point you made??
You want someone who takes a position and then refuses to change even when the circumstances change??
'Flip-flop' is a cheap partisan tactic. It represents a truly stupid desire for politicians to never adjust their positions and to instead stubbornly stick to a position regardless of whether or not it is fully correct.
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