233 Mental Health Professionals Spell Out Dangers Of Donald Trump In Chilling Letter

It is irrational and irresponsible for patriotic citizens to vote for a self-deluded malignant narcissist who places himself over everything, including the Constitution.

It is utterly un-American to vote for a tyrant who has already attacked the republic once, and nearly succeeded in bringing it down.

nearly succeeded in bringing it down.

Not even close.................FFS

Do you not understand what took place between the election and Jan 6? Trump lost a free and fair election and decided to try and take power anyway. That's an attack on the Republic. 

The whole point of Jan 6 was to pressure Pence, as president of the Senate, into either accepting fake Trump electors or rejecting valid Biden electors from contested states, or to just declare the certification as invalid and 'send it back to the states' in an attempt to set up a chaotic situation in which no victor could be determined by the Electoral College. The newly Republican-controlled House could then vote to elect the president themselves per the 12th Amendment.

The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President.

From the timeline of the 6th...

1:02 p.m.: Pence refuses to go along with Trump's plan to pick and choose electors, and tweets a letter stating in part,

"It is my considered judgment that my oath to support and defend the Constitution constrains me from claiming unilateral authority to determine which electoral votes should be counted and which should not."

1:05 p.m.: Congress meets in joint session to confirm Joe Biden's electoral victory.

2:24 p.m.: President Trump tweets

"Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!"

After that, the insurrectionists surged and started calling for Pence to be brought out and hung.

I don't know how some have managed to twist reality into something that makes Trump innocent of an attempted coup. Here are the Eastman memos laying out a couple versions of the general plan:

First memo  (a six-step plan for Pence to overturn Biden's election):

1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or   Senate Pro Tempore   Grassley, if Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the ballots, starting with Alabama (without conceding that the procedure, specified by the   Electoral Count Act, of going through the States alphabetically is required).
2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.
3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States. That means the total number of "electors appointed" – the language of the 12th Amendment – is 454. This reading of the 12th Amendment has also been advanced by Harvard Law Professor   Laurence Tribe. A "majority of the electors appointed" would therefore be 228. There are at this point 232 votes for Trump, 222 votes for Biden. Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected.
4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe's prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the   12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote ..." Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.
5. One last piece. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining the rules of the present one – a constitutional no-no (as Tribe has forcefully argued). So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of electors, if they had not already done so.
6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission – either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President of the Senate might be in charge of counting the votes) and others who would press a lawsuit would have their past position – that these are non-justiciable political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind.

Second memo (a more extensive plan with multiple scenarios for Pence to overturn Biden's election):

• VP Pence opens the ballots, determines on his own which is valid, asserting that the authority to make that determination under the 12th Amendment, and the Adams and Jefferson precedents, is his alone (anything in the Electoral Count Act to the contrary is therefore unconstitutional).
  • If State Legislatures have certified the Trump electors, he counts those, as required by Article II (the provision of the Electoral Count Act giving the default victory to the “executive”-certified slate therefore being unconstitutional). Any combination of states totaling 38 elector votes, and TRUMP WINS.
  • If State Legislatures have not certified their own slates of electors, VP Pence determines, based on all the evidence and the letters from state legislators calling into question the executive certifications, decides to count neither slate of electors. (Note: this could be done with he gets to Arizona in the alphabetical roster, or he could defer Arizona and the other multi-slate states until the end, and then make the determination). At the end of the count, the tally would therefore be 232 for Trump, 222 for Biden. Because the 12th Amendment says "majority of electors appointed," having determined that no electors from the 7 states were appointed (a position in accord with that taken by Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe), TRUMP WINS.
  • Alternatively, VP Pence determines that because multiple electors were appointed from the 7 states but not counted because of ongoing election disputes, neither candidate has the necessary 270 elector votes, throwing the election to the House. IF the Republicans in the State Delegations stand firm, the vote there is 26 states for Trump, 23 for Biden, and 1 split vote. TRUMP WINS.
• VP Pence determines that the ongoing election challenges must conclude before ballots can be counted, and adjourns the joint session of Congress, determining that the time restrictions in the Electoral County Act are contrary to his authority under the 12th Amendment and therefore void. Taking the cue, state legislatures convene, order a comprehensive audit/investigation of the election returns in their states, and then determine whether the slate of electors initially certified is valid, or whether the alternative slate of electors should be certified by the legislature, exercise authority it has directly from Article II and also from 3 U.S.C. § 2, which provides: "Whenever any State has held an election for the purpose of choosing electors, and has failed to make a choice on the day prescribed by law, the electors may be appointed on a subsequent day in such a manner as the legislature of such State may direct."
  • If ... the investigation proves to the satisfaction of the legislature that there was sufficient fraud and illegality to affect the results of the election, the Legislature certifies the Trump electors. Upon reconvening the Joint Session of Congress, those votes are counted and TRUMP WINS.

As a sitting president, Trump tried to subvert the election, the Constitution, and the Republic itself in order to usurp power. He placed himself above all three. That's reality. It happened. Trump is an oath-breaking tyrant and a traitor to the Republic.

If Pence had gone along with it we might very well be living under a tyranny right now.

Incidentally, J.D. Vance says he would have gone along with it, an admission that he's willing to betray the Republic just as much as Trump is.

Many MAGA's have never heard of the Eastman memo because it is not mentioned in their media bubble. They think the riot at the Capitol was all that was going on.  The way things look now though, they would have denied its importance even if they did know about it. 

“Not even close.................FFS”

FFS…how can you dismiss the attempt? Just how ‘close’ would it need to have been to raise a concern? Unless, of course, your concerns were unfathomably in alignment with the ultimate purpose. FFS indeed. 

He's been inciting ever since in preparation for Insurrection Part II but they'll be prepared for him and the maga this time.

He's definitely going to try some shit again if he loses. No doubt about it.

What, they couldn't get 234?

An open letter condemning Trump — that had been signed by 233 professionals as of early Friday “Clinicians have had years to observe Donald Trump, and his behavior has long been indicative of malignant narcissism,”

223?  How many actually conducted a real evaluation (i.e. had him in their offices and done a proper evaluation)?  None?  Findings to be printed in the NYT?  And I'm supposed to take that seriously. 

How many actually conducted a real evaluation (i.e. had him in their offices and done a proper evaluation)?

You do know that a mental health professional doesn't actually need to perform some physical on the patient, they do their evaluation by listening to the patient's words, watch their body language or are given descriptions of their actions and behavior by those who have been around them. We have MORE than enough footage of Trump for most mental health experts to come to a conclusion based on his words, body language and actions.

I think some people were expecting a multiple choice test be given ... /s

You do know that a mental health professional doesn't actually need to perform some physical on the patient,

And that puts their methodology, "findings", ethics and credibility in question.  One would have to be a fool to believe this article as anything other than idiotic gaslighting.

You do know that a mental health professional doesn't actually need to perform some physical on the patient, they do their evaluation by listening to the patient's words, watch their body language or are given descriptions of their actions and behavior by those who have been around them.

Seems like the National Library of Medicine disagrees with you.

Is it ever ethical for doctors to diagnose patients they haven’t examined? - PMC

There is a term called "duty to warn", but according to the article...

"But part of that duty rests on having done a proper evaluation, according to Dr. David Goldbloom, a psychiatry professor and senior medical adviser for the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. “You are intervening to abrogate fundamental civil freedoms,” he said. “ You can’t do that from having read an article or watched television.”"

These people need to lose their licenses. 

Anyone with two open eyes can see that Trump is mentally ill. 

Seems like the National Library of Medicine disagrees with you.

The same article you linked also says:

The Canadian Psychiatric Association said it has no official position on this subject. And although the American Psychiatric Association generally frowns on diagnoses made at a distance, there are instances when it’s considered acceptable, noted Dr. Benoit Mulsant, chair of the department of psychiatry at the University of Toronto. For example, the Central Intelligence Agency will ask for psychiatric evaluations of world leaders who haven’t been examined in person. Kim Jong-un’s mental state has almost certainly been opined upon by psychiatrists, he said. When a judge requests a psychiatric assessment of a person whom the psychiatrist hasn’t met, the assessment relies on materials collected by others. But in such cases, the limitations of the evaluations are understood, said Mulsant.

I get why some would "frown" on this type of diagnoses, but I think the large number of mental health professionals agreeing should be admissible in a general examination of a person's character though wouldn't be ethical if used to actually take away a person's personal freedoms like putting them in a mental hospital against their will. These health professionals aren't saying they want Trump put in a hospital against his will, but they can weigh in with their professional opinions and it's up to us as to whether we want to allow that to alter our opinion. The fact is this won't actually affect anyone's opinion, this just reaffirms what the vast majority of rational Americans know about Donald Trump, and for his boot lickers it will only serve to upset and enrage them or perhaps claim these health professionals must be from the deep state or lizard people.

So we have 233 mental health professionals who are diagnosing a patient they have never met. Fucking morons who should have their license to practice revoked.

Trump has been on full public display almost daily for 9 years now – statements, body language, and actions. Do they really need him to come in and sit on a couch?

You do not appear to have any qualms about diagnosing Ms. Harris without ever having met her.

Bravo...  got a bunch of unprofessional idiots with a license to spout bullshit.

“Clinicians have had years to observe Donald Trump, and his behavior has long been indicative of malignant narcissism,” clinical psychologist John Gartner, the lead signatory of letter, said in a statement sent to HuffPost.

Except it's not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) as a diagnosis. Add in these people have not met with Trump in person, only what they have seen on TV and they feel they can diagnose him? They should be more worried about losing their license due to malpractice.

As there's more than a million mental health professionals in the US, come back when you can get even 5% to agree to a diagnosis. 

This is no better than the 51 National Security experts who all signed the letter stating the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation. LOL

No one really needs the opinions of mental health professionals to know that Trump is a malignant narcissist, unfit for leadership and a danger to the republic.  That is obvious to any rational, thinking, sane human being.

That is obvious to any rational, thinking, sane human being.

And has been since 2015.

Or earlier.  Think about his Obama birther fraud, as one notable example.

Of course his actions and words are normal, all one has to do is watch and listen and you be taken back to “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” Trump is quite normal for a mental institution. 

Malignant narcissism is a  mental health condition   that involves traits of both narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder.

bing

Trump told a radio interview yesterday that the SC immunity ruling means none of the indictments against him have any validity, now or in the future. There is no doubt he believes that he can do anything he wants, with immunity, in a second term. The only thing that will stop him is the people around him, and thats not looking too good either. 

True. The guardrails are down now. A second Trump administration would be nothing like the first, as off the rails as it was.