Lula and Xi sign dozens of trade deals as Brazil-China ties deepen
Presidents of China and Brazil hail 'new phase' in relations between two countries, which are major trading partners
Why would any country trust Trump? Why would any country make deals that engage their future, with a man so obviously determined to destroy the world.
I'm sure that Lula doesn't want to cozy up to Xi. But as a lesser of two evils, there's just no contest.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Presidents of China and Brazil hail 'new phase' in relations between two countries, which are major trading partners.
Chinese President Xi Jinping and his Brazilian counterpart Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva have inked dozens of trade and development deals, as the pair held talks in Brazil's capital aimed at deepening ties between the two countries.
The leaders on Wednesday showcased their growing bilateral relationship by signing nearly 40 agreements on trade, technology and environmental protection.
"This is another historic moment in the development of China-Brazil relations," said Xi, adding that China was ready to make the countries "golden partners".
For his part, Lula said he was "confident" that the partnership "will exceed all expectations and pave the way for a new phase of bilateral relations".
Xi's visit to Brasilia comes after his attendance earlier this week at a Group of 20 (G20) summit in Rio de Janeiro as well as an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit last week in Lima, Peru.
The Chinese leader figured prominently at both meetings, in contrast with outgoing United States President Joe Biden, who is in the final weeks of his time in office ahead of the January inauguration of incoming US President Donald Trump.
China has been an increasingly important trade partner and investor in Latin America in recent years, while many observers expect the US government under Trump to erect additional trade and migration barriers that will affect the region.
A group portrait on the first day of the G20 summit highlighted the moment, with Xi front and centre next to the presidents of Brazil, India and South Africa - China's partners in the BRICS group of major developing nations.
Biden missed that photo op for "logistical reasons", the White House said.
Lula, who took office in early 2023 after the tumultuous tenure of his far-right predecessor Jair Bolsonaro, has been seeking to reset Brazil's relationships with its foreign allies.
Experts have said the Brazilian leader also is trying to "carve out … a distinctive role" for Brazil in global geopolitics by maintaining ties with Washington while also building relationships with the US's rivals, including China and Russia.
On Wednesday, Lula welcomed Xi with full honours, greeting him on the red carpet as horse-mounted guards rode past, a military brass band played their two countries' national anthems, and lines of children waved Chinese and Brazilian flags.
China is Brazil's largest trading partner overall, with two-way commerce exceeding $160bn last year.
The South American country sends mainly soybeans and other primary commodities to China, which in turn sells Brazil semiconductors, telephones, vehicles and medicines.
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The world turns, while Trump collects his Klown Kar Kabinet.
(That's "KKK" -see what I did there?
)
China is now the main trading partner for just about all of South America. Another thing that went down quietly during Biden's four years.
Your learning Bob.
Why wouldn't Latin America trade with China?
I should get paid for this:
China’s Growing Influence in Latin America | Council on Foreign Relations
In fact, Vic... you'll find the same thing all around the world.
I'm glad that you got it.
hy would any country make deals that engage their future, with a man so obviously determined to destroy the world.
Some people admittedly believe in authoritarianism and dislike Democracy.
So when authoritarian governments act aggressively to destabilize the world, " Chinese vessel has been implicated in what has been described as the sabotage of undersea telecom cables in the Baltic Sea," they attack Trump.
No doubt, Trump dressed the cable too provocatively and it deserved it.
Lula has not woke up to the price tag Xi will put on this trade deal.
You are correct, China doesn't do beneficial deals with their trade partners.
Just ask Russia and North Korea.
Or the Philippines and Vietnam.
The plan will be to make all of South America dependent.
Kinda like a Chinese Monroe Doctrine.
China's BRI (Belt and Road Initiative) has been carried out in dozens of nations around the world. How many complaints have you heard from those nations? I have been watching on TV the envoys, foreign ministers and leaders of many of those nations praising China for what they are doing to make their nations a better place. Why would they lie about it? What are they afraid of? Now can you prove the wrongful accusation that they are nothing but debt traps? What happened in Sri Lanka was an internal problem, not caused by China.
The difference between China and the USA is that China is going around the world making friends and not doing ANYTHING to hinder the USA from doing so, while the USA is going around the world doing whatever it can to throw roadblocks into China's development and to contain China's development. What is the USA afraid of?
Debt trap diplomacy has its critics.
Italy made an "improvised and atrocious" decision in joining China's Belt and Road (BRI) initiative, defence minister Guido Crosetto has said.
2021 study conducted by the U.S.-based research lab AidData found 35% of BRI infrastructure projects have been plagued by controversies such as corruption, excessive debt and labor exploitation.
With projects estimated at more than $1 trillion, BRI has fallen short of its five goals: policy coordination, capital allocation, infrastructure connectivity, trade facilitation and people-to-people bonds, some analysts say.
"By design, connectivity is meaningless without real shared norms and values of global governance," said Niva Yau, a Japan-based nonresident fellow with the Atlantic Council’s Global China Hub.
Massive corruption
Failed projects include the dry port of Khorgos in Kazakhstan, the Hambantota port in Sri Lanka and a soon-to-be-launched east coast rail link in Malaysia, said Yau.
Their levels of failure are different, but all have one commonality — corruption, Yau told VOA Mandarin in a recent interview.
For example, a recent Associated Press analysis of Chinese loans to Zambia found that billions of dollars in financing of infrastructure projects were effective in accelerating economic growth, but also “raised foreign interest payments so high that there was little left for the government, forcing it to cut spending on healthcare, social services, and subsidies to farmers for seed and fertilizer.” With default looming in Kenya, thousands of paychecks to civil servants have been withheld. As chief presidential economic advisor David Ndii put it bluntly on social media: “ Salaries or default? Take your pick .”
China’s loans pushing world’s poorest countries to brink of collapse
The Belt and Road began in 2013. Look at what it has accomplished. Now look at what American foreign aid has accomplished over the same period.
Why would anyone prefer to be America's ally?
Interesting question.
Why would any American prefer to send out so many taxpayer dollars in foreign aid to someone that doesn't appreciate it?
Ask the Chinese. They seem to see advantage in helping others.
Something about priming the pump?
What?.. I should ask the Chinese on how Americans feel?
I'm sure they do. In only the most benevolent way, of course...
Exactly...
Not Everyone is so blinded by their love of totalitarianism as to like predatory lenders . Do you think payday lenders are popular in popular in poor neighborhoods?
Read the links.
The model of diplomacy:
Don't leave Peru out of the picture, where the APEC get-together was held. Xi shone there as well. China built a Pacific Ocean port for Peru that has brightened Peru's future by providing jobs and a conduit to the rest of South America for making goods from the Asia-Pacific region more affordable by cutting out excessive shipping costs.
It is a super port.
That will service all of South America.
delivering Chinese cars and Android-less phones.
Drill, baby, drill!
Denial, denial, denial!
Here we have news of deals being signed between Brazil and China. "Deals being signed" is obviously the subject of the article. But our NT "let's never talk about the actual topic" folks derail immediately.
Baltic Sea and Philippine Sea... rather than Brazil and China. Sure. Yeah. Of course...
sorry bob, didn't mean to interrupt your glorification of China as the model of peaceful diplomacy by providing actual facts with regards to how they operate internationally.
I'm surprised we didn't get the usual history lesson.
Didn't bother, as we both know more than he.
I don't see how you can justify your complaint. You said...
... but when people point out the fallacy of such a statement you have a problem with it. Is it your contention that we're supposed to ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence that Trump is playing in the little league compared to China and Xi when speaking of who's actually worse? We're supposed to just consider this trade deal in isolation and, what, just say how great it is? Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?
Your objection is the actual denial.
So... Baltic.
Got it.
As if that's supposed to mean something.
The fact is, anyone with even a modicum of critical thinking knows Xi is worse by far than Trump and by far the bigger danger to the world. Trump will be mired in endless battles both in court and congress, while Xi is the government. He faces no such obstacles. His obstacles are of a different kind. So much of China can be characterized by the tofu dregs meme it's not funny. His biggest enemy is the rampant corruption at every level of society, both in and out of government. It is easily as great a threat to him as the governments that oppose China. Xi is as busy trying to keep it all from falling apart as he is trying to create Chinese hegemony.
What else can he do?
The "XI is a model of diplomacy" is such a silly claim there's no substantive way to defend it.
I'm not sure a worldwide poll would agree.
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If China is becoming more prominent in the world, it's still an amateur compared to America when it comes to hegemony. The difference between the two nations is that America is doing whatever it can to contain China and throw roadblocks in its progress, while instead, China builds strong relations and shares benefits around the world. And from what I've seen on NT, most Americans are doing and saying whatever they can to further America's intent. Fear begets hatred, doesn't it.
Move forward, move forward, move forward. That seems to be Xi's game.
It won't be Trump's.
I think we know who will win.
In Trumps first term the tariffs he instituted were answered by the Chinese and they targeted the farm products and American farmers were left in the lurch and had to be bailed out by the US government and where did Chinese get it’s soybeans from, well Brazil of course so this is just an another move by china to set itself up in our back yard.
A few years ago the US was the biggest trading partner with South America, that is no longer true it’s now China and the most recent is the proposal to build another Panama Canal across Nicauagra in Central America and this is being.financed by China, and it isn’t a pie in the sky plan. The Panama Canal is in real trouble with the drought taking place transit times and cost for the shipping lines has increased dramatically in the past couple of years and I’m sure that China has a plan with a canal across Central America to take advantage of Panama.
Trump smacked China with tariffs, China smacked back. I wonder what the backlash is going to be when Trump hits China hard with high tariffs as he has already proposed, as high as 100%. I think we all know who's going to pay the piper when that happens. It would be worthwhile being a bankruptcy lawyer in America when it does.
Tariffs can be useful for temporary protection, while a sector gets its house in order. But if history is any indication, America will try for long-term protection... and then the dike will break.
They are a way to spur American manufacturing, create new jobs and lower U.S. trade deficits. Our incoming president happens to be right on a couple of points:
First, tariffs do raise money for the government.
Second, the United States has much lower tariffs than most other countries do.
How long has the US endured unfair competition from China? It may have cost the US its manufacturing sector.
And most important Trump has demonstrated how tariffs can be a bargaining chip, like getting Mexico to go along with the "Remain-in-Mexico" policy.
1. They do raise money for the government that cost is being born by US businesses and citizens.
2. True we do have lower tariffs than many countries that is why you can purchase products very cheaply that you can not do in other countries.
3. It may have or not there are many variances that could have caused this.
4. Or other countries can retaliate with high tariffs against us. We are the second largest exporter in the world and that could cause serious problems in our economy.
They have a choice.
True we do have lower tariffs than many countries that is why you can purchase products very cheaply that you can not do in other countries.
We also have union jobs to protect. Slave labor always undermines union labor. How important is lower prices to you?
It may have or not there are many variances that could have caused this.
China now has a middle class. One could argue that it was simply transferred from the US.
Or other countries can retaliate with high tariffs against us. We are the second largest exporter in the world and that could cause serious problems in our economy.
The key detail may be keeping tariffs just low enough so that people don't mind them as much. Ten percent may be a good benchmark, but that is up to the President-elect.
1. They do have a choice not to buy the product or buy American which will be a higher cost and the tariff money will not be supporting the US government.
2. Since when are union jobs important to republicans. That argument doesn’t fly at all.
3. Yes, China does have a middle class and the same can be said of Japan, Korea, Germany, Italy et al. The world advances, Vic it does not stay stagnant,
4. True, but we will see what he actually does.
I can't understand that living more than 18 years in China and getting around to a lot of places and meeting and knowing a lot of people I've never met or even HEARD of a "slave" here yet. Do you know of any? Maybe they're all chained like dogs to their workbenches and only released to go to the toilet. Or maybe it's just that I don't read disinformation that's meant to disparage China's success.
And as Kavika has pointed out, China has a middle class and it's growing, and growing fast. But the BIG difference in China is that it no longer has people living in abject poverty. It took the government 10 years to do it, but now there isn't anyone here who doesn't have a decent roof over their head, good food on the table, free education of their children up to high school graduation and access to modern health care.
Everything costs a lot less in China than in western countries, so people can live comfortably on very little and maybe that's why they're deemed to be "slaves". I live very comfortably here, and all I could possibly afford in a western country on my government pension (my wife doesn't work but loves tending her vegie garden staked out nearby) since I'm fully retired would be a basement room in a dingy rooming house with a shared bathroom and kitchen. I rent a three-bedroom apartment in a modern well-kept building in an upscale area of a big city surrounded by 3 university campuses near the mountains within walking distance of everything I need and I can afford everything I need and don't owe anyone a cent, or even a yuan.
Here you go.
One can see why this isn't talked about in China much.
China is bound to censor disparaging disinformation, which is probably why I'm unable to open that link.
That would explain 10.1.5 then.
Of course it would for YOU. But I wrote about face-to-face person-to-person contact and conversation, personal experience, not reading it or watching TV which is what you're limited to.
It was against the Uyghurs.
I suppose as time goes on, and trade deals require that products are made by the same kind of labor, the work will be assigned completely to China's growing middle class. China may not make as much off trade with the US, but its workers will benefit from fair trade deals.
You know what, Vic, what I can't understand is the inconsistency (or is it hypocrisy) of certain conservative members of NT. They support Israel against the terrorist Muslims who have attacked Israel and murdered Israelis yet they support the separatist terrorist Uyghur Muslims who attacked and murdered innocent Chinese people in Kunming. Maybe it's just because Israel is a democracy and the people are mostly white while China is a communist nation and the people are NOT white.
Although I can't open that link, I'll bet it is accusatory without actual proof. If it accuses China of using slave labour, then that coming from a nation that puts its prisoners to work (and there are a lot of them) and virtually enslaves migrants who work on farms.....well, WTF.
I don't support that.
then that coming from a nation that puts its prisoners to work (and there are a lot of them) and virtually enslaves migrants who work on farms.....well, WTF.
I don't support cheap labor either.
I hope you got my point that fair trade deals will improve the lot of workers in both China and the USA.
Vic knows more about China than you. Vic knows more about France than I.
Sean too, of course.
Correct.
It wasn't Vic I was aiming at.
I think we still owe China for something, don't we?
I'm thinking Trump might just include tariffs on China in a big tax bill next year. They would be impossible to change without another act of Congress.
US exports to China support over a million jobs in the US.
China is one of our largest trading partners
Proceed with caution, wild promises and 100% tariffs on China could put a serious dent in our economy.
The Trump first term proved that Trump knows how to use tariffs.
It did!!! Then why did the US have to bail out farmers?
If Trump carries out the extreme tariffs he has threatened, there will be a lot more bailing out needed.
In case no one noticed, Trump did not protect Europe from China during his first term and hasn't seemed to change that policy stance. China has an opportunity to expand its commercial ambitions into Russian and, beyond, into Europe. China is already making inroads on the African continent.
China can waste time, effort, and treasure trying to dominate the US. But that leaves China little to address the emerging competitive threat from India. The 21st century will be India's turn. And India has historical ties to the Commonwealth when China chose to isolate itself.
And in the Middle East, and very much so in Latin and South America (if anyone has been watching the news about the APEC and G20 conferences over the past few days),
China is trying to dominate the US? And that is the paranoia I've been posting about so many times. China isn't TRYING to dominate the US, it is simply doing what it is doing for its own benefit and that of those it is helping and doesn't give a shit about the US, especially since China has been offering to cooperate with the US and getting back confrontation instead.
China doesn't need enemies. The Party charts a course, and everyone had better go in that direction.
MAGA does need enemies. There's no one to give direction because everyone is out for themselves. Does anyone actually believe that Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg or Donald Trump is looking out for America? So "enemies" are useful, to draw everyone's ire.
So much wasted energy.
Not just MAGA, Bob. I've posted a number of times on this site that America needs to have an enemy in order to distract attention away from its own problems and "competition" is more important in America than "cooperation" - you see it in its sports, in its government, in its schools, in its workplace -everywhere.
I wonder if that's "American" or more widely "human".
It's not necessary to have to PROVE that you're the best, when you ARE the best. It's not necessary to have to BLOCK the competition when you ARE the best. Think about that.
China doesn't mind low level conflict like the South China Sea, but hasn't gotten involved in anything really serious in decades... while... Iraq, Afghanistan, ...
China seems to be going about its business, without worrying too much about others' reactions. "Its business" runs from Belt and Road through alternative energy. They're hugely expansionist, economically, but fairly calm otherwise.
"Balance"
I believe that China's claim on the South China Sea is based on ancient maps that showed it as part of China, as they did with Taiwan.
Yes. And other maps show something else.
It's a power play.
Donald Trump is not the sitting President. Joe Biden has been in charge for nearly four years now. Democrats have been denigrating anyone that questions the legitimacy of Biden's Presidency.
Does everyone understand the glaring error Biden made from the beginning of his time in charge? The United States can no longer afford to pursue Eurocentric policies. It's time for Europe to grow up and take care of itself. The United States needs to turn its attention to neighbors in the New World. The United States needs to pay attention to Cuba. The United States needs to pay attention to growing unrest, divisions, corruption, and an emerging oligarchy on the South American continent. Opening the US borders and admitting refugees doesn't address what is happening in our own hemisphere.
Funny how the unbiased liberal press wasn't warning about Russian threats and a Middle Eastern world war during Trump's 1st term. The focus then was on US - China relations. The unbiased liberal press heaved their Wheaties because President-elect Donald Trump had the audacity to officially communicate with President Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan.
Donald Trump seems to know the score. Joe Biden made an unforced error. And the unbiased liberal press only sells dissent and division as clickbait because people get their news from social media.
Oh, I love that line!
The United States needs to turn its attention to neighbors in the New World. The United States needs to pay attention to Cuba. The United States needs to pay attention to growing unrest, divisions, corruption, and an emerging oligarchy on the South American continent. Opening the US borders and admitting refugees doesn't address what is happening in our own hemisphere.
Let us start with the super port that China just built in Peru.
Funny how the unbiased liberal press wasn't warning about Russian threats and a Middle Eastern world war during Trump's 1st term. The focus then was on US - China relations. The unbiased liberal press heaved their Wheaties because President-elect Donald Trump had the audacity to officially communicate with President Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan.
Now it is all about what he might do.
Donald Trump seems to know the score. Joe Biden made an unforced error. And the unbiased liberal press only sells dissent and division as clickbait because people get their news from social media.
I think Morning Joe and his mate just confirmed it.
DEFINITION OF HYPOCRISY: Saying that you adhere to China's "One China Policy" that you had signed to and then undermining it by supplying arms to Taiwan and having top government officials visit Taipei instead of Beijing.
With all the threats coming from Trump he or his incoming administration seems to have forgotten about rare earth metals and there are two in particular that China may slow the distribution of soon and then we will be in shit city.
Nah. The world's biggest battery maker, CATL, is now making batteries that don't use rare earths.
Oh... wait...
LOL
Rare earth metals are not that rare; in spite of the name. The United States possesses an abundant reserve of rare earth minerals. But trying to extract and mine these minerals in the United States would awaken an apocalypse of enviro-zombies. The decaying carcasses of environmentalists dying of apoplexy over opening a mine would so pollute the wilderness that it could cause an extinction event.