Criticism of Israel is ramping up. What does that mean for the war in Gaza?
My posts on NT are proof that I am a firm supporter of Israel's right to exist... without war. At any time, Hamas could have ended this war instantly by recognizing that right. Hamas is effectively holding the entire Palestinian population hostage to their dogma of destroying Israel and killing all the Jews.
But... When a madman takes hostages, the solution is not to keep firing at the madman until all the hostages are dead. That's pretty much what Netanyahu is doing. It's as barbaric as Hamas's deeds... and two wrongs will never make a right.
Israel must end the deaths.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
In Israel, left-wing politician Yair Golan, a retired general, recently stirred controversy when he said in an interview with Israel Radio that “Israel is on the way to becoming a pariah state” and added that “a sane country does not fight against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not set itself the aim of expelling populations.”
In the face of intense criticism, he has since walked back those comments.
But while Golan’s comments were condemned across the Israeli political spectrum, they “also sparked a discussion about Israel's conduct and what it is doing and the toll of the war on civilians,” said Tia Goldenberg, a correspondent for the Associated Press in Jerusalem.
In an interview with Vox’s Today, Explained, Goldenberg said Golan’s comments are indicative of the fact that Israelis are increasingly turning against their country’s war in Gaza.
That war began on October 7, 2023, when an attack by Hamas fighters left 1,200 dead and 250 captured. Some of those kidnapped have been returned; others have died. There are 58 hostages remaining in Gaza, of which a third are believed to be alive.
Israel’s attacks on Gaza have killed more than 50,000 people and have devastated Gaza, leaving much of it uninhabitable. In recent weeks, it has expanded its military offensive , with increased airstrikes and a goal of capturing the entire Gaza Strip and moving the population of Gaza to the south of the territory.
That escalation comes amid a dire hunger crisis. Israel began a total humanitarian aid blockade on March 2 in order to increase pressure on Hamas to return the remaining hostages, leading one critic to accuse the country of using aid as a “weapon of war” during an April hearing on Israel’s war strategy at the International Court of Justice.
“During these few weeks, or nearly three months actually, no aid was being let into Gaza , no food, no medicine, no fuel, and you had a situation where food experts were warning that nearly 1 million Palestinians barely had enough access to food, and nearly half a million Palestinians were at the risk of possible starvation,” Goldenberg said.
The escalating strikes and threat of mass starvation haven’t just roiled Israeli politics; they’ve also drawn worldwide condemnation of Israel and created an unlikely coalition of critics.
MAGA-friendly podcaster and standup comedian Theo Von recently described the ongoing conflict in Gaza as a “genocide” and “one of the sickest things that's ever happened.”
Leading children’s entertainer and YouTube star Ms. Rachel has used her platform to talk about how the conflict is affecting children in the region.
“It’s sad that people try to make it controversial when you speak out for children that are facing immeasurable suffering,” she told Zeteo’s Mehdi Hasan. “I think it should be controversial to not say anything.”
The new pope, Leo XIV, like his predecessor, has appealed for a ceasefire in Gaza, the freeing of the remaining hostages, and called on Israel and Hamas to respect international humanitarian law.
German leaders have made public comments about changing their country’s long-running special relationship with Israel, while French President Emmanuel Macron has floated acknowledging Palestine as a state .
Even President Donald Trump, a longtime ally of Israel and of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, has started to suggest he’s seen enough. “Israel, we’ve been talking to them, and we want to see if we can stop that whole situation as quickly as possible,” he said last weekend .
All of this suggests an inflection point in Israel’s long-running war. It has been made possible in part thanks to aid from allies like the US, Germany, and France. If that support were to deteriorate, continuing its operations could become more difficult.
That is not to say the war’s end is necessarily near.
Despite the shift in rhetoric, few of Israel’s allies have made any material changes to their relationship with the country. Israel’s goal of completely destroying Hamas has not changed. It recently killed Mohammed Sinwar, believed to be the head of Hamas’ armed wing.
“It's just been an intense, intense conflict. And yet that hasn't dislodged Hamas from its position. Netanyahu, meanwhile, is under a lot of political pressure from his governing coalition to continue the war,” Goldenberg said. “It's hard to see how the sides reconcile and come to an agreement that ends this war.”
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To be clear: Hamas started this war. Hamas murdered innocent civilians right from the first day, music lovers at a concert. Hamas took innocent civilians hostage... many of whom have since died in Hamas custody.
Hamas could have ended the war at any time.
Hamas is responsible for this mess.
That said, a "good" person does not compound the evil done by another, with their own evil actions.
Was it not the excuse of being necessary to end the war and prevent more and more deaths that America dropoed nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Although Israel warns citizens to vacate where they are going to bomb, did America warn the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to get out of town? Any governing body, such as Hamas, should, when eventual defeat is inevitable, surrender in order to save further carnage of those people it is their responsibility to protect, like both the Nazis and the Japanese did, but Hamas know that continuing to hide among the civillians is working to create blame to be visited upon the Jews. They're smart, they're goading the rest of the world to stop Israel from protecting its civilians from Hamas by the necessity of defeating Hamas to the last militant standing. Look at how well Hamas' psychological method had rallied the bleeding hearts of the whole world to put the blame on Israel.
Yes, and also the fire-bombing of Dresden. Those events have led to a great deal of thought about "morality in war". At what point do despicable deeds outweigh a just cause? It's a hard question, obviously.
Hamas is bad. "Evil" is a word I don't use easily, but Hamas is a strong candidate. That said, evil deeds to fight evil is absurd.
Hamas has shown that it will see all Palestinians dead rather than recognize Israel's right to exist. So... will all Palestinians have to die because Netanyahou has sworn to eradicate Hamas? That's unthinkable.
What can be done? I don't know. I don't know the situation well enough to have even a schema of a plan.
"Blessed be the peacemakers".
"Hamas is responsible for this mess."
Very true, and every single death of "Palestinians" is entirely their fault. The Gaza citizens. for the most part, have aided and abetted Hamas' depraved terrorism. It is Hamas who has been confiscating food and medical supplies. They continue to resist, which is why they need to be eliminated to the fullest extent possible. Any further collateral damage is entirely on them.
Ummm... when an Israeli airstrike kills people, it's kinda sorta the fault of the bomber...
How do you know that? Hamas has imposed a one-party-dictatorship in Gaza, so the people have no say in policy. (Kinda like what our current government wants for us.)
Most of the civilian population is part of Hamas and fully supports them. This is common knowledge. The ones that suffer their depravity the most is the women, children, and the ill and elderly......aka as human shields.
By starting this war and continuing to resist, Hamas is entirely responsible for any further civilian casualties. They could surrender and release the remaining hostages any time they chose, if they really cared about their people. But they don't care, any more than Hitler did....holding out until the Russians were only blocks away from his bunker. Were the Allies responsible for collateral damage by bombing Germany?
Until you look at it without blinders. Airstrikes are carried out on military targets. Hamas has a practice of hiding everything among civilians, in schools, mosques, and hospitals. The population helps and supports it. It's already been proven several times over. Those are military targets.
and who voted Hamas into power? The people of GAZA. The fact that they are actively helping hide hostages and weapons should be evident that they still support the terrorists.
Sorry, Greg... That's just not true. Unless you stick to reality, I'm done with this thread.
Hamas are bad. We agree.
That doesn't make killing civilians OK. If Hamas uses a hospital as a shield, the question is "How important is this target? How many civilian deaths does its destruction justify?" Not an easy question. I'm not sure that Netanyahou even asks...
Hamas was voted into power in 2006... and has never held elections since. (Did I mention that Hamas is bad?) No dissidence is allowed. If someone holds a gun to your head, you obey.
Hamas is bad. The Gazans were fools to accept their leadership.
Israel must nevertheless stop the deaths.
It's not black and white.
That's an answer the on ground command needs to answer. Playing armchair general is useless.
I'll go as far as saying as soon as ALL the hostages are released and the appropriate actions are taken such as reparations, rebuilding of Israel or anything else.
Maybe to a noncombatant. As somebody who has made some of those decisions, it can be black and white.
I was a lieutenant in Vietnam. Advisor to the Vietnamese Army. Got shot at. Called artillery and gunships and, sadly, medevacs. Called an arclight once - kinda rearranged the terrain.
Noncombatant?
My ass!
Congratulations. We aren't that different.
And yes, in the field, in today's battlefield it is much more black and white.
I've done all 4. And all within the ROE.
Sorry, but Israel has pissed away the goodwill from much of the world that came after October 7th, with this endless war.