I thought she recently changed her mind, maybe because she saw some real evidence that an Iranian nuclear bomb actually WAS imminent. Ever watch the movie The Sum of All Fears? I sure wouldn't want to see THAT happen, and when it comes to fanatical religious extremists that sponsor, fund and arm terrorist organizions like their proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthies, Islamic Jihad) and have been chanting Death to Israel (the Little Satan) and Death to America (the Great Satan) for decades even the possibility that they could produce the bomb is scary. Don't forget that a while back the IAEA said that Iran did not let them see all their nuclear facilities, and more recently said that Iran WAS contravening the proper procedures and limitations. Maybe YOU trust the Ayatollah, but I sure as hell don't.
I think she accidentally said the truth out loud and then decided she wanted to keep her job.
But if she was then presented with new evidence, who had it? And why was that withheld from her? She’s the Intelligence Director. It’s literally her job to know this stuff, and anyone who has this information should be working under her anyway, shouldn’t they?
Orrrr, she’s just wildly incompetent, which is also a possibility.
Orrrr, the people who are supposed to be running the government actually aren’t. Someone else is.
Maybe YOU trust the Ayatollah, but I sure as hell don't.
Not a bit. It doesn’t hurt my feelings that Iran had bombs dropped on it, especially if it was actually some place working on weapons.
But supposedly, we elected this great negotiator and he wasn’t going to start wars. In fact, it was Kamala that was supposed to take us to war. And oh yeah, we’re supposed to be trying to save money. And didn’t Iran have two more weeks? I do get tired of politicians being full of shit.
And didn’t Iran have two more weeks? I do get tired of politicians being full of shit.
In matters of international conflict and war (and probably the homeland on occasion) the motto is hear and make contingency plans. Trump is not the best bluffer (because he builds in to his statements his intentions). . . he stated something along the lines of within two weeks, the operative word being: "within."
It has been said that skirting the truth and even outright lying is permitted in matters of war.
Incidentally, that is why some conservatives feel comfortable skirting the truth and outright lying to liberals, because they see the 'sides' engaged in political warfare.
Last but not least: The Iranian Supreme Leader has been put on notice (remember: Trump has already made a statement of his intentions). The warning has been delivered, all that remains is for a catalyst that makes it imminent.
There is no way to access the damage without boots on the ground.
No boots on the ground.
Are you going to support that as well?
I fully support what was just done. Let us give credit to Netanyahu. He was the one who had his people do the fighting, taking all the risks and leaving a clear path for the US to take out the underground nuclear facilities. It was a stroke of genius.
Iran had 60 days to do it peacefully by themselves.
History will credit both men for their courage. And justice has never been better served.
Yup, give him full credit for starting a war that he knew he couldn't win. At least not until he drew Trump into helping. Probably offered him a chance to build a Trump tower in Jerusalem.
So you think it was OK for Iran to have nuclear weapons? It sounds like Netanyahu softened the enemy up, so much so that Iran was caught flat footed again.
So you think it was OK for Iran to have nuclear weapons?
There’s no evidence that they do. Of course we had an agreement with Iran and five other countries - UK, France, Germany, (and also the European Union), Russia, and China - to make sure they didn’t get one and Trump withdrew from the agreement. So to the extent that Iran is at least close to having nuclear weapons, now you know who to blame.
So you think it was OK for Iran to have nuclear weapons?
Do you think it's ok for Bibi to have nukes? Bibi is the biggest terrorist in the ME and he is the only one with nukes. He is a warmonger just like trump.
Ya know, if we only had a deal with Iran to inspect their facilities whenever we wanted to make sure they weren't building nukes... Oh wait, we did have that, but since a Black guy made the deal, trump tore it up.
They complained when Iran attacked us, directly and indirectly, during Bubba, Bush 1 and 2, Obama, but for some reason, they can't come to terms with the fact that Iran has been attacking us, directly and indirectly, since 1979 today.
The purpose of a "predator" isn't to measure anything.
Speaking of the Predator. Does anyone remember when a Predator Drone was shot down over Iran during the Obama presidency?
The military was practically begging Obama to have it destroyed because Iran was sure to figure how to make one. Of course, Obama would never touch Iran. It probably became the beginning of Iran's Drone production program.
Damned, there's a danger the war will be over before Europe has a chance to appease Iran.
Here's the bottom line, folks. Khomeini drew a red line. Trump stepped across that line and pissed on the Ayatollah's shoes. The United States got in an out of the war in a matter of hours. Trump hasn't been intimidated. And now the United States is definitely Iran's only lifeline. But we shouldn't ignore that Israel will continue their aggressive military attacks on Iran.
Trump is still pushing for peace in spite of the spin and fearmongering by the unbiased liberal press. Clearly Trump is not planning further offensive action. Now it's up to Khomeini and the Iranian leadership to decide whether or not they have the stomach for a wider war. Will Iran be able to return to the tit-for-tat exchanges with Israel? Iran wasn't faring too well with that war.
Now we have to wait for Khomeini and the Iranian leadership.
you imagine it was solved becuase Iran promised it was? Okay.
since Iran had no plans for a Nuke under the jpcoa, why were they upgrading air defenses, expanding and hardening defenses at places like fordow while it was in effect?
"No, it was never solved. Iran kept working on producing weapons grade uranium, and kept inspectors from FULLY inspecting the facility."
The IAEA announced YEARS ago that they were not allowed to inspect all Iran's enrichment facilities, and recently announced that Iran was NOT following the required rules and guidelines in their nuclear program. Are people so fucking blind and deaf as to think that the Ayatollah can be trusted?
100% avoidable. Once again, Trump tries to take credit for putting out a fire he started.
Wow, now there are allegations that Trump is responsible for the Oct. 7 attack on Israel.
What part of "Iran needs to negotiate" is confusing? What part of Iran firing missiles into Israel to retaliate on behalf of Hamas and Hezbollah is confusing? The JCPOA set the same sort of limits on Iranian nuclear development as COP21 limited China's greenhouse emissions. Future restraints don't really solve anything.
Trump didn't start the fire by withdrawing from JCPOA. The fire was started by signing off on a weak agreement and failing to enforce Iranian compliance. China being a signatory to JCPOA gave Iran an out because enforcement required joint agreement. China benefited more from Iranian non-compliance than Iranian compliance.
i think irans proxies did 10/7, without iranian funding . hamas would still be throwing sticks and stones for the most part. thats not saying there are not other actors in the mix .
It made me sick watching the news this morning with all the Iran supporters saying Israel started the war, when the war was started by Iran's proxies that were funded and armed and trained by Iran and even given the key plan for a psychological propaganda tactic to use to get the bleeding hearts of the world to come down on Israel. How can ANYONE deny that Iran's proxy Hamas started the war on Oct 7, followed by Iran's proxy Hezbollah from the morth and Iran's proxy the Houthies. Then Iran itself started firing missiles into Israel before Israel fired on Iran. What kind of ignorant ignoring of reality is it that causes people to blame Israel? Is it stupidity or, as a German Officer in Schindler's list said to Schindler after he was detained for kissing a Jewish girl, something like "good old-fashioned Jew hatred".
The Oct. 7 terror attack on Israel started the war. Iran had already started a wider war in the Middle East by firing 'retaliatory' missiles into Israel. Israel has been fighting for its existence - and - winning. And people are pissing into their shoes about Trump?
Just what are our priorities? We're supposed to bomb Russia but we don't want to upset the Ayatollah? Russia can't be allowed to threaten use of nuclear weapons but the Ayatollah can be trusted not to? Putin is evil personified but we're supposed kiss the ass of Khomeini's goat?
Now it is the next morning, and as I said in the above comment I am replying to, it makes me sick to see that the world would rather say that those "FUCKING JOOZ" started the war rather than the fact that Iran used its proxy Hamas to start the war on Oct 7, one which Iran backed up using Hezbollah, Houthies and then themselves firing thousands of missiles into Israel. This is from this morning's Canada Global Times news (bolding is mine):
"Ever since Israel started the war with a surprise bombardment of Iran’s military and nuclear sites on June 13, Iranian officials from the supreme leader on down have warned the U.S. to stay out, saying it would have dire consequences for the entire region."
Something i dont think many took note of and likely didnt see reported much , a couple days after Israel decided to go all cattywumpus on the Iranian AAand radar sites and before the american bombing. Iran it was reported removed itself from the nuclear proliferation treaty rather quietly it seemed , that could have been the tripwire that caused the bombing by the US.
Wish i could find those articles now , but like a fart in the wind , i cant .
I just posted this on another site so will wait first...
Arvo....hmmmm yessss but I will wait for the Israelis to confirm the hits first and go by them...
Don't particularly believe to much what comes out of Trump's mouth...what he says and what actually happened/happens can be two totally different things...
The usual asshats, starting with Trump, have declared unparallelled success within minutes of our planes leaving Iranian air space. Rubio has now declared the nuclear weapons development issue to be "irrelevant" to the attack on Iran?
Iran says the facilities were empty and unmanned. Iran says the facilities were underground to enhance environmental conditions like air conditioning for the scientists and to limit danger to the public should there be an accident with fissile materials.
Iran says the facilities were built underground with 30,000 psi cement which would greatly degrade the effects of a GBU-57,
however the concussive damage to humans would still probably be lethal for several hundred feet, even through the concrete;
( the foundation of your home and your driveway are most likely 5,000 psi concrete )
all meaningless if the sites were unmanned.
The Iranians, now humiliated and out gunned in the air, will now hide whatever fissile material they have and whatever their ambitions of for making ballistic missiles will instead go back into terrorism against hostile nations. Most likely small portable dirty bombs.
Kidnapping and terrorism are their go to "strategies".
Iran has already stepped up cyber attacks on long time foe, the UK.
Cost?
We reportedly had 20 GBU-57s MOPs on hand. We used 14 "MOP"s at a cost of $50 million, plus 36 Tomahawk missiles, another $140 million.
Untold millions sending 7 B-2 bombers from Missouri to Guam to Iran and back with dozens of refueling events.
118 other aircraft infiltrated Iranian airspace as decoys and radar suppression sorties.
But NPR, PBS, Voice of America and Planned Parenthood are being stripped of their budgets as being wasteful?
A POTUS and VPOTUS who campaigned tirelessly on isolationism just got us back into a shooting war in the ME.
The dumbest comment I have seen here today, and there are plenty to choose from, is that Trump got us into and out of a war in just a few hours.
'Iran says the facilities were empty and unmanned. Iran says the facilities were underground to enhance environmental conditions like air conditioning for the scientists and to limit danger to the public should there be an accident with fissile materials."
Untold millions sending 7 B-2 bombers from Missouri to Guam to Iran
you didnt get the memo did ya ? they never went to Guam , they took the direct route east .and west back . Just like Patton didnt have an army ready to land at Calais .
in otherwords they lied when they said they went to guam.
none finer than a 509er , peace always was our profession , blowing your shit up is just a hobby .
The ghost of Curtis LeMay smiled , as Allah and the devil wept .
Only a fool would believe those fanatical religious extremists who fund, train and arm declared terrorists and who have already been caught in their lies by the IAEA.
Only a fool would believe those fanatical religious extremists who fund, train and arm declared terrorists and who have already been caught in their lies by the IAEA.
Then how do you explain that he has kept many of his promises? I'm not saying that you are entirely incorrect, but perhaps your use of the word "anything" is somewhat exaggerated.
Which is crazier, your obsession with TDS or Rubios explanation ?
Neither. Denial of a very real TDS that exists today is crazier. Much crazier
According to Rubio they were bombed because they have all of the materials they need to make a bomb.So do these nations, should we bomb them all? Some are more radical than Iran, no?
Perhaps we should more be serious about the nations that have sworn to wipe out other nations. Sounds like your mileage may vary.
The 3rd column is active nuclear reactors. the 5th column is under construction.
Nuclear power generation is not the problem since it doesn’t require weapons grade refined fuel but if you’re worried about it. Go for it
I guess we can still be the world's policeman when it suits the ruling party?
Ask Obama and Clinton. Both have done their share of “policing.”
Probably because the Wikipedia page talked about countries that have nuclear power plants which Israel does not have. If that page was talking about countries that had nuclear weapons, the list would be a lot smaller as there are only 9 countries that acknowledge they have nuclear weapons. Israel is rumored to have them but they have never admitted to having such weapons.
It’s weird that the same people who whine continuously about us not using are military to support Ukraine are whining about us using our military to defend our strongest ally in the Middle East, I can see only one reason for this hypocrisy and I think Buzz put it best.
I don't remember any of the leftists here condemning Obama when he bombed Libya without Congressional approval.
No one expects you to remember the reactions of other people to something that happened 15 years ago. Your declaration that you don't remember it really doesn't mean anything.
I, for one, was not a fan of that bombing, and I'm usually not of similar attacks by us, unless it somehow addresses an issue that directly impacts us.
I don't remember any of the leftists here condemning Obama when he bombed Libya without Congressional approval.
Or Clinton when deployed troops to Kosovo, Haiti, and Bosnia. Bombing Iraq, Afghanistan, Sebia, Bosnia and Sudan. Yep, bubba was a busy boy. Guess our friends on the left were napping during those.
Pretty sure every leftist on here was around during those times. There is probably a one hundred percent chance that zero of them criticized Bubba for doing those things.
I wonder what the reasoning is why they are triggered today s/
What it means is leftists were quiet after those attacks.
I mean, it’s a thing you could Google, and probably should. Unquestionably, when any president does this, a bunch of his supporters will go along with it. But there are also people on the same side as the president who condemn it. Dennis Kucinich (a Democrat) suggested Obama be impeached for bombing Libya. And there were others who complained. I think there was a lawsuit. Democrats voted against funding a campaign against Libya, and so on.
The same kind of thing happens whenever the president pulls this stuff. And I for one, want real evidence that it had to be this way and no other - even for popular shit like the first Gulf War.
And, how soon they forget that the Repubs, i.e. Bush, froze $2.0B Iranian assets from Iran, froze Iranian assets, sanctioned financial institutions from dealing with Iran and Congress authorized sanctions targeting Iran's proliferation activities and imposed secondary sanctions on foreign companies involved in developing Iran's oil resources. And, whattyaknow, Obama and other Dems immediately started giving Iran funds. How 'bout them apples?
Probably the other way around Mark. Art imitating life. The strike plan used has probably been on the books in some form, for some time. Some of the weapons used were designed for just such a mission.
yup, those are the ones , took a modified lancaster arvo from the dam buster squadron to carry them .
Those are the ones that made the Tirpitz , sistership to the Bismark , capsize and sink .
bit of trivia , seems a brit base had what they thought were decommissioned tallboy/ grandslams at their base entrance gate .......didnt find out til sometime in the 80s i think , they were NOT decomissioned and demilled .... ooooops .
What really amazes me about Americans these days is that they are not 100% supportive of the bombing of the means for an apocalypse that a fanatical religious extremist govenment that funds, supports, and trains declared terrorist proxies and sets them against innocent people, an extremist government that has been reciting "DEATH TO AMERICA", calling America "The Great Satan", for DECADES, and sets its proxies and attacks innocent people attending a music festival to start a war, the means of carrying out such an apocolypse, including the possibility of at LEAST a possibility achieved in the movie The Sum of All Fears, if not the obliteration of America's ally. I guess it will take another Pearl Harbor to unify the American public. It appears that the unwarrented attack on an important ally, the only real one the USA has in the Middle East, by those who have declared DEATH TO AMERICA is not sufficient to do so.
HOW SHAMEFUL IT IS that so many Americans have forgotten the words of American Army General Alexander Haig who said the Israel is like America having its biggest aircraft carrier in the Middle East without having to have one soldier aboard. America gets important intelligence from the Mossad. Israel considers America to be its greatest ally. Has anyone seen or heard the praise Netanyahu has just declared about Trump?
I, personally, certainly do NOT agree with a lot of what Trump is, what he has done or what he is doing, but I support him 500% when it comes to Israel. For starters he is the ONLY PotUS who kept ALL his promises about Israel. Fortunately, however, every PotUS has maintained the military support of Israel, most likely because doing so is essential for American National Security as well, notwithstanding the disagreement of the self-loathing Jew Bernie Sanders who would throw Israel to the wolves, maybe to please The Squad, especially Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar.
I sure as hell don't hide MY feelings about and 100% support of Israel. That doesn't mean that I have any respect for or support of the Ultra-Orthodox extremist Jews, not only for what they are doing in Israel but for personal reasons from my own history. It should be pretty clear by now that I am not stuck on one side or the other of issues, but I support what I believe is right, no matter what side of the aisle it should fall upon. So please don't "label" me.
What really amazes me about Americans these days is that they are not 100% supportive of the bombing of the means for an apocalypse that a fanatical religious extremist govenment that funds, supports, and trains declared terrorist proxies and sets them against innocent people, an extemist government that has been reciting "DEATH TO AMERICA", calling America "The Great Satan", for DECADES, and sets its proxies and attacks innocent people attending a music festival to start a wr, the means of carrying out such an acopolypse, including the possibility of at LEAST a possibility achieved in the movie The Sum of All Fears, if not the obliteration of America's ally. I guess it will take another Pearl Harbor to unify the American public. It appears that the unwarrented attack on an important ally, the only real one the USA has in the Middle East, by those who have declared DEATH TO AMERICA is not sufficient to do so.
Buzz, you need to realize that Americans are tired of fighting wars. The United States has been at war my entire lifetime. I realize Israel has been fighting a few years longer but there's a fundamental difference. Israel fights for itself. The United States has been fighting for others; not for itself. The United States has to be forever at war to protect friends and allies.
The Sept. 11, 2001, attack by al Qaeda unified the United States. Canada was the only country that shouldered arms and patrolled our borders while we grieved and regrouped. So much for all those allies we had fought for. GW Bush put together a backbiting coalition of allies to nation build Afghanistan. And twenty years later its as if nothing happened in Afghanistan, the Taliban are running things just like they were 20 years ago. So, what did the United States fight for?
Ukraine is just another war that means absolutely nothing the US. Same with Israel. Israel fights to exist. Americans only fight to make sacrifices, spend money we don't have, to be lectured, hated, threatened, and attacked. We can't even have one goddammed military parade without being hated, spit on, and death wished. But we're on speed dial the next time a 'friend' feels threatened.
Bombing Iran is not a victory for the United States; it's black mark that we will have to live with until the end of the world. We're the Great Satan. Iran hates the US more than it hates Israel. The only thing the United States will get out of this is more hate. And we will likely be needed for the next war before this one ends.
Israel has had to keep fighting for its very existence. Surely anyone with a brain knows that the nations surrounding it deny Israel's right to be there in the midst of them. They're not concerned that Israel is the land of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, of Solomon and David, of Esther and Jesus - the historical homeland. It was apparent from what happened in WW2 that the Jews in the world HAD to have a place that was theirs, that they could have a place where they could be safe, where the word "Jew" was NOT a swearword, and at least a majority of the United Nations decided that their historical homeland was to be their homeland, although the oil-hungry Arab supporting Brits cut it down from what it was to be. The United Nations has since obviously taken sides with Israel's enemies, so thank God America is still Israel's defender and friend.
Israel has had to defend its existence ever since the days of its regaining it, IMO the words of Bob Dylan's "Neighbourhood Bully" has been the very story told in a song.
September 11 has obviously not been a good enough lesson for Americans. October 7 was a good enough lesson for Israel. There are too many Americans who would rather "Shake Hands With the Devil" than render him harmless.
September 11 has obviously not been a good enough lesson for Americans. October 7 was a good enough lesson for Israel. There are too many Americans who would rather "Shake Hands With the Devil" than render him harmless.
See? Just another lecture that disparages Americans.
It had to be done.
Can you imagine having the chance finally to end the threat and not doing it?
Did it though? How do you know? Our National Intelligence Director didn’t think so.
I thought she recently changed her mind, maybe because she saw some real evidence that an Iranian nuclear bomb actually WAS imminent. Ever watch the movie The Sum of All Fears? I sure wouldn't want to see THAT happen, and when it comes to fanatical religious extremists that sponsor, fund and arm terrorist organizions like their proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthies, Islamic Jihad) and have been chanting Death to Israel (the Little Satan) and Death to America (the Great Satan) for decades even the possibility that they could produce the bomb is scary. Don't forget that a while back the IAEA said that Iran did not let them see all their nuclear facilities, and more recently said that Iran WAS contravening the proper procedures and limitations. Maybe YOU trust the Ayatollah, but I sure as hell don't.
I think she accidentally said the truth out loud and then decided she wanted to keep her job.
But if she was then presented with new evidence, who had it? And why was that withheld from her? She’s the Intelligence Director. It’s literally her job to know this stuff, and anyone who has this information should be working under her anyway, shouldn’t they?
Orrrr, she’s just wildly incompetent, which is also a possibility.
Orrrr, the people who are supposed to be running the government actually aren’t. Someone else is.
Not a bit. It doesn’t hurt my feelings that Iran had bombs dropped on it, especially if it was actually some place working on weapons.
But supposedly, we elected this great negotiator and he wasn’t going to start wars. In fact, it was Kamala that was supposed to take us to war. And oh yeah, we’re supposed to be trying to save money. And didn’t Iran have two more weeks? I do get tired of politicians being full of shit.
Lol you must be tired all the time
In matters of international conflict and war (and probably the homeland on occasion) the motto is hear and make contingency plans. Trump is not the best bluffer (because he builds in to his statements his intentions). . . he stated something along the lines of within two weeks, the operative word being: "within."
It has been said that skirting the truth and even outright lying is permitted in matters of war.
Incidentally, that is why some conservatives feel comfortable skirting the truth and outright lying to liberals, because they see the 'sides' engaged in political warfare.
Last but not least: The Iranian Supreme Leader has been put on notice (remember: Trump has already made a statement of his intentions). The warning has been delivered, all that remains is for a catalyst that makes it imminent.
I sat in front of the TV watching the news most of the morning.
It feels good to see somebody do something.
Yes, raising the price of oil, helping both Iran and Russia while setting us up for more inflation?
Well done Napoleon, well done.
There is no way to access the damage without boots on the ground.
Are you going to support that as well?
No boots on the ground.
Are you going to support that as well?
I fully support what was just done. Let us give credit to Netanyahu. He was the one who had his people do the fighting, taking all the risks and leaving a clear path for the US to take out the underground nuclear facilities. It was a stroke of genius.
Iran had 60 days to do it peacefully by themselves.
History will credit both men for their courage. And justice has never been better served.
Yup, give him full credit for starting a war that he knew he couldn't win. At least not until he drew Trump into helping. Probably offered him a chance to build a Trump tower in Jerusalem.
So you think it was OK for Iran to have nuclear weapons? It sounds like Netanyahu softened the enemy up, so much so that Iran was caught flat footed again.
There’s no evidence that they do. Of course we had an agreement with Iran and five other countries - UK, France, Germany, (and also the European Union), Russia, and China - to make sure they didn’t get one and Trump withdrew from the agreement. So to the extent that Iran is at least close to having nuclear weapons, now you know who to blame.
There’s no evidence that they do
Right. They were bombed before they could build them.
o to the extent that Iran is at least close to having nuclear weapons, now you know who to blame.
hamas (his nickname within the Obama admin) Ben Rhodes and Obama who turned our iranian policy over to him,
Usually, when you kill someone even though there is no evidence of a threat, we call that murder.
Do you think it's ok for Bibi to have nukes? Bibi is the biggest terrorist in the ME and he is the only one with nukes. He is a warmonger just like trump.
Bingo.
Trump's own chief of intelligence stated that they didn't have any and weren't building them.
America’s spies say Iran wasn’t building a nuclear weapon. Trump dismisses that assessment
Ya know, if we only had a deal with Iran to inspect their facilities whenever we wanted to make sure they weren't building nukes... Oh wait, we did have that, but since a Black guy made the deal, trump tore it up.
Oh well!
Yes because defending yourself after being attacked first is ‘starting a war’ only in liberal lala land.
When did Iran attack us?
Apparently their mere existence is sufficient for right wing LaLa land.
You been in a coma since 1983?
They complained when Iran attacked us, directly and indirectly, during Bubba, Bush 1 and 2, Obama, but for some reason, they can't come to terms with the fact that Iran has been attacking us, directly and indirectly, since 1979 today.
I wonder of anyone knows what that reason is.
Read the first sentence of the post I responded to again.
So you agree that Russia had the right to make a preemptive strike on Ukraine?
What was the threat Ukraine was to make an attack on Russia?
Did you miss the point?
We ( US,UK, EU, NATO ) have universally condemned Russia for a "preemptive strike".
Russia had no claim, no right.
So why do we suddenly have the right to do the same thing with no consultation (except maybe Israel)?
Rubio's excuse is that they have/had all the materials they needed to make a bomb.
So does every country in the world with reactors producing electricity and nuclear waste.
Who should we bomb next? Mexico or Canada, lol.
But did they actually take them out? They were mostly deep underground-- I don't think damage can be accurately assesd from the air!
Ummm... Israel already has boots on the ground.
At the bombed sites in Iran-- or are those boots on the ground in Tel Aviv?
Israel had commandos on the ground inside Iran. There are other sources you can find with a Google search.
Not true. Totality of destruction CAN BE assessed from surface inspection. Your comment is a lie.
Xray vision ring from a box of Cracker Jacks?
BDA ….. look it up
Someone has to crawl into those holes underground. BDA is useless at Fordow.
Maybe we should have waited until they launched a nuclear weapon / S
Either way, it’s all Trumps fault. TDS
Not useless. Of limited value but useless? Not even close
No radiation leaks. No obvious damage. No armchair assessments. It pays to be patient.
US strikes did not destroy Iran nuclear programme, says intelligence assessment
US strikes set Iran's nuclear program back by months: Pentagon report
U.S. damage report: Iran nuclear program set back by months, not obliterated - The Washington Post
Is Iran's concrete unbreakable? Scientists believe even 'mother of all bombs' cannot shatter it
US military Iran attack: US unleashes 30,000-pound bunker-busters on Iran — but scientists say Tehran’s concrete may have won the day - The Economic Times
You're not going to find any if you don't have people here to actually do an assessment. Or when a CNN blogger writes the report from her desk.
I actually made that same point several times
Funny to no avail..., your confederates think that Mossad has boots on the ground all around Fordow.
The US Predators have flown over and verified the same radiation before and after...
but their bloggers !!!
Link?
The purpose of a "predator" isn't to measure anything. It doesn't have the equipment / capability to do anything but observe and launch munitions.
You can't honestly consider them "journalists" or "reporters".
Speaking of the Predator. Does anyone remember when a Predator Drone was shot down over Iran during the Obama presidency?
The military was practically begging Obama to have it destroyed because Iran was sure to figure how to make one. Of course, Obama would never touch Iran. It probably became the beginning of Iran's Drone production program.
here's the AI answer you guys are so fond of.
Another conspiracy or fantasy?
The best thing they could generate are liquid propellant ballistic missiles that take hours to prepare and launch?
Or the crappy Shahed series of drones that they mass produce on the cheap?
Ditto
Obama probably thought so too. Remember, he kept begging them to give it back.
The Hooties won’t be liking that.
It's about time. 😆😁
Damned, there's a danger the war will be over before Europe has a chance to appease Iran.
Here's the bottom line, folks. Khomeini drew a red line. Trump stepped across that line and pissed on the Ayatollah's shoes. The United States got in an out of the war in a matter of hours. Trump hasn't been intimidated. And now the United States is definitely Iran's only lifeline. But we shouldn't ignore that Israel will continue their aggressive military attacks on Iran.
Trump is still pushing for peace in spite of the spin and fearmongering by the unbiased liberal press. Clearly Trump is not planning further offensive action. Now it's up to Khomeini and the Iranian leadership to decide whether or not they have the stomach for a wider war. Will Iran be able to return to the tit-for-tat exchanges with Israel? Iran wasn't faring too well with that war.
Now we have to wait for Khomeini and the Iranian leadership.
Link?
Don't need a link since this is already history. But you could refer to Trump's posted comments (^^^ up there): "NOW IS THE TIME FOR PEACE!"
100% avoidable. Once again, Trump tries to take credit for putting out a fire he started.
You must be so disappointed the Iranian ayatollahs won’t have nukes in the near future. So much effort from the democrats went into it.
Nope. I don’t want them to have nukes, either. But that was a problem we solved. Trump fucked it up.
you imagine it was solved becuase Iran promised it was? Okay.
since Iran had no plans for a Nuke under the jpcoa, why were they upgrading air defenses, expanding and hardening defenses at places like fordow while it was in effect?
No, it was never solved. Iran kept working on producing weapons grade uranium, and kept inspectors from FULLY inspecting the facility
Ok, well you’re obviously the expert and I should ignore the opinion of our National Intelligence Director.
Nah, you must be the expert since you said the problem was solved until Trump fucked it up. So Bobs your uncle, it was all fixed …….. right?
You obviously fail to provide any evidence to support your assertion.
Which part don’t you believe?
The IAEA announced YEARS ago that they were not allowed to inspect all Iran's enrichment facilities, and recently announced that Iran was NOT following the required rules and guidelines in their nuclear program. Are people so fucking blind and deaf as to think that the Ayatollah can be trusted?
The IAEA isn't allowed to inspect USA military or scientific sites either, only 20 reactors agreed tp 40 years ago.
So I guess that makes the USA evil too?
Wow, now there are allegations that Trump is responsible for the Oct. 7 attack on Israel.
What part of "Iran needs to negotiate" is confusing? What part of Iran firing missiles into Israel to retaliate on behalf of Hamas and Hezbollah is confusing? The JCPOA set the same sort of limits on Iranian nuclear development as COP21 limited China's greenhouse emissions. Future restraints don't really solve anything.
Trump didn't start the fire by withdrawing from JCPOA. The fire was started by signing off on a weak agreement and failing to enforce Iranian compliance. China being a signatory to JCPOA gave Iran an out because enforcement required joint agreement. China benefited more from Iranian non-compliance than Iranian compliance.
Iran attacked Israel in Oct. 7th?
i think irans proxies did 10/7, without iranian funding . hamas would still be throwing sticks and stones for the most part. thats not saying there are not other actors in the mix .
It made me sick watching the news this morning with all the Iran supporters saying Israel started the war, when the war was started by Iran's proxies that were funded and armed and trained by Iran and even given the key plan for a psychological propaganda tactic to use to get the bleeding hearts of the world to come down on Israel. How can ANYONE deny that Iran's proxy Hamas started the war on Oct 7, followed by Iran's proxy Hezbollah from the morth and Iran's proxy the Houthies. Then Iran itself started firing missiles into Israel before Israel fired on Iran. What kind of ignorant ignoring of reality is it that causes people to blame Israel? Is it stupidity or, as a German Officer in Schindler's list said to Schindler after he was detained for kissing a Jewish girl, something like "good old-fashioned Jew hatred".
Indirectly, by supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.
Money, weapons, training.
Where did I say anything about any of that?
The Oct. 7 terror attack on Israel started the war. Iran had already started a wider war in the Middle East by firing 'retaliatory' missiles into Israel. Israel has been fighting for its existence - and - winning. And people are pissing into their shoes about Trump?
Just what are our priorities? We're supposed to bomb Russia but we don't want to upset the Ayatollah? Russia can't be allowed to threaten use of nuclear weapons but the Ayatollah can be trusted not to? Putin is evil personified but we're supposed kiss the ass of Khomeini's goat?
Now it is the next morning, and as I said in the above comment I am replying to, it makes me sick to see that the world would rather say that those "FUCKING JOOZ" started the war rather than the fact that Iran used its proxy Hamas to start the war on Oct 7, one which Iran backed up using Hezbollah, Houthies and then themselves firing thousands of missiles into Israel. This is from this morning's Canada Global Times news (bolding is mine):
Nerm, I wish I could vote up your comment more than once.
You didn't. It's the other form of TDS.
Maybe it depends on how much shallow Americans want to pay for gas?
Ok, it should say
Better?
Allegations, schmaligations!
In the past I've heard allegations that the Moon is made of Blue Cheese-- obviously that doesn't mean its true!
That does seem to be the case. Of course Hamas attacked Israel. But the eivdence is that Iran was behind it.
(Incidentally the timingn leads to their probably reason-- Iran wanted to fuck up The Abraham Accords. And to some degree its been sucessful).
Something i dont think many took note of and likely didnt see reported much , a couple days after Israel decided to go all cattywumpus on the Iranian AAand radar sites and before the american bombing. Iran it was reported removed itself from the nuclear proliferation treaty rather quietly it seemed , that could have been the tripwire that caused the bombing by the US.
Wish i could find those articles now , but like a fart in the wind , i cant .
Have you heard the allegation that Obama paid for Iran's nuclear program? That was made possible with pallets of green but it wasn't cheese.
I should be fair. It wasn’t all democrats. Large bipartisan majorities in both houses opposed the deal, including many democrats.
I just posted this on another site so will wait first...
Arvo....hmmmm yessss but I will wait for the Israelis to confirm the hits first and go by them...
Don't particularly believe to much what comes out of Trump's mouth...what he says and what actually happened/happens can be two totally different things...
Nor should you... If the bombs missed by 1000 miles, he would still be claiming it was, "the best ever in all of history"...
Actually I've noticed that one of his favourite phrases is:
Nobody's ever seen anything like it!
Waiting is imperative.
The usual asshats, starting with Trump, have declared unparallelled success within minutes of our planes leaving Iranian air space. Rubio has now declared the nuclear weapons development issue to be "irrelevant" to the attack on Iran?
Iran says the facilities were empty and unmanned. Iran says the facilities were underground to enhance environmental conditions like air conditioning for the scientists and to limit danger to the public should there be an accident with fissile materials.
Iran says the facilities were built underground with 30,000 psi cement which would greatly degrade the effects of a GBU-57,
however the concussive damage to humans would still probably be lethal for several hundred feet, even through the concrete;
( the foundation of your home and your driveway are most likely 5,000 psi concrete )
all meaningless if the sites were unmanned.
The Iranians, now humiliated and out gunned in the air, will now hide whatever fissile material they have and whatever their ambitions of for making ballistic missiles will instead go back into terrorism against hostile nations. Most likely small portable dirty bombs.
Kidnapping and terrorism are their go to "strategies".
Iran has already stepped up cyber attacks on long time foe, the UK.
Cost?
We reportedly had 20 GBU-57s MOPs on hand. We used 14 "MOP"s at a cost of $50 million, plus 36 Tomahawk missiles, another $140 million.
Untold millions sending 7 B-2 bombers from Missouri to Guam to Iran and back with dozens of refueling events.
118 other aircraft infiltrated Iranian airspace as decoys and radar suppression sorties.
But NPR, PBS, Voice of America and Planned Parenthood are being stripped of their budgets as being wasteful?
A POTUS and VPOTUS who campaigned tirelessly on isolationism just got us back into a shooting war in the ME.
The dumbest comment I have seen here today, and there are plenty to choose from, is that Trump got us into and out of a war in just a few hours.
Waiting is imperative.
Morning...as I said I will wait to see what Israel says first and be guided by them...
All ready the head lines here have cooled off.. before it was all rah rah rah, now it's possibly, maybe, it seems...uhhh uhhh...
They can put up photos and white boards with what they think, and so called experts on how they thought it should have gone but...
Israel's word will be good enough for me....
And you believe them without question?
I believe the Iranians over trump....Trump never tells the truth.
you didnt get the memo did ya ? they never went to Guam , they took the direct route east .and west back . Just like Patton didnt have an army ready to land at Calais .
in otherwords they lied when they said they went to guam.
none finer than a 509er , peace always was our profession , blowing your shit up is just a hobby .
The ghost of Curtis LeMay smiled , as Allah and the devil wept .
Only a fool would believe those fanatical religious extremists who fund, train and arm declared terrorists and who have already been caught in their lies by the IAEA.
Probably because the B2 has a "bathroom"
Only a retard would believe anything trump says.
Then how do you explain that he has kept many of his promises? I'm not saying that you are entirely incorrect, but perhaps your use of the word "anything" is somewhat exaggerated.
Actually that (Iran's "special" cement) may be more important than people realize....
Seriously, I watched trump's remarks, (and the bobble heads behind him)... Have you ever seen anyone kiss their own ass more than trump does? Wow.
Trump takes office and in 3 months we have a war with Iran...
No we're not. Were we at war with Yemen, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, or Pakistan when Obama bombed them?
Quit with the fear mongering already.
ODS.
How cute. You're trying to be creative. Still didn't answer my question.
Anyone who honestly believes Iran wasn’t working towards having Nuclear weapons is deluding themselves. TDS taken to a new level ….. crazy. Pure nuts.
Take it up with Tulsi Gabbard.
lol …. So you agreed with one thing she said but she changed that so now you’re back to hating everything she says. Right?
Which is crazier, your obsession with TDS or Rubios explanation ?
According to Rubio they were bombed because they have all of the materials they need to make a bomb.
So do these nations, should we bomb them all? Some are more radical than Iran, no?
The 3rd column is active nuclear reactors. the 5th column is under construction.
I guess we can still be the world's policeman when it suits the ruling party?
Nuclear power by country - Wikipedia
Neither. Denial of a very real TDS that exists today is crazier. Much crazier
Perhaps we should more be serious about the nations that have sworn to wipe out other nations. Sounds like your mileage may vary.
Nuclear power generation is not the problem since it doesn’t require weapons grade refined fuel but if you’re worried about it. Go for it
Ask Obama and Clinton. Both have done their share of “policing.”
Interesting the nuclear armed country they left out . . .
Probably because the Wikipedia page talked about countries that have nuclear power plants which Israel does not have. If that page was talking about countries that had nuclear weapons, the list would be a lot smaller as there are only 9 countries that acknowledge they have nuclear weapons. Israel is rumored to have them but they have never admitted to having such weapons.
The Latest updates:
Iran lashed out at Israel after the U.S. struck three Iranian nuclear sites Saturday at President Donald Trump's order.
Thirty Tomahawk missiles were fired against Natanz and Isfahan from U.S. submarines, Fox News' Jennifer Griffin reports.
Trump said Iranian nuclear enrichment facilities were "totally obliterated" during a brief address the American people from the White House Saturday.
At least a dozen people were injured after Iran launched roughly 30 missiles into Israel on Saturday night.
He may or may not be right about that-- I dunno.
(But I"m wondering what evidence is that claim based on?)
I not 100% sure, but my guess is that they are not "totally obliterated". IMHO Iran has planned for these attacks.
(And then the issue of their special cement...)
We will learn how extensive the damage was as time goes by.
The important thing to remember is that Trump just did what 7 of his predecessors wouldn't and he won't hesitate to do it again.
It’s weird that the same people who whine continuously about us not using are military to support Ukraine are whining about us using our military to defend our strongest ally in the Middle East, I can see only one reason for this hypocrisy and I think Buzz put it best.
You nailed that one on the head my friend.
I don't remember any of the leftists here condemning Obama when he bombed Libya without Congressional approval.
Also, by democratic standards, the democrats should have impeached Obama when he took out Bin Laden in Pakistan.
I wonder what is different about this scenario? s/
No one expects you to remember the reactions of other people to something that happened 15 years ago. Your declaration that you don't remember it really doesn't mean anything.
I, for one, was not a fan of that bombing, and I'm usually not of similar attacks by us, unless it somehow addresses an issue that directly impacts us.
Or Clinton when deployed troops to Kosovo, Haiti, and Bosnia. Bombing Iraq, Afghanistan, Sebia, Bosnia and Sudan. Yep, bubba was a busy boy. Guess our friends on the left were napping during those.
What it means is leftists were quiet after those attacks.
Leftists, according to their "morals" today, should have impeached Obama for taking out bin Laden.
I don't have to remember specifics, but most Americans remember that the left did nothing about it.
There Is only one reason why they are concerned about the War Act
Do you know what that reason is?
Pretty sure every leftist on here was around during those times. There is probably a one hundred percent chance that zero of them criticized Bubba for doing those things.
I wonder what the reasoning is why they are triggered today s/
'We Came, We Saw, He Died': Dems' Breathtaking Hypocrisy On War Powers (UPDATE) – HotAir
Dems have been very hypocritical on this iddur You can bet that if Congress had informed of the mission, some dumb Dem would have warned Iran
It’s far more likely that Hegseth would have told them.
I mean, it’s a thing you could Google, and probably should. Unquestionably, when any president does this, a bunch of his supporters will go along with it. But there are also people on the same side as the president who condemn it. Dennis Kucinich (a Democrat) suggested Obama be impeached for bombing Libya. And there were others who complained. I think there was a lawsuit. Democrats voted against funding a campaign against Libya, and so on.
The same kind of thing happens whenever the president pulls this stuff. And I for one, want real evidence that it had to be this way and no other - even for popular shit like the first Gulf War.
Oh yeah - I forgot to add -
And, how soon they forget that the Repubs, i.e. Bush, froze $2.0B Iranian assets from Iran, froze Iranian assets, sanctioned financial institutions from dealing with Iran and Congress authorized sanctions targeting Iran's proliferation activities and imposed secondary sanctions on foreign companies involved in developing Iran's oil resources. And, whattyaknow, Obama and other Dems immediately started giving Iran funds. How 'bout them apples?
Hegseth is not a "Dem"!
I think i will have some fun with this .
Buzz you might enjoy this .
I was sitting here having my blackwater medicine , reading about the iran raid , and a sense of deja vu came over me .
like i had seen this somewhere before , and it came to me out of left field. its basically the same as the movie , top gun maverick .
Co inkie dinkies being , pretty much the same mission trained for in the movie , against an adversary that has the F-14 in its inventory .
really , what other country fits those things in the real world ? underground nuke production , and flies the F-14?
life imitating art?
Probably the other way around Mark. Art imitating life. The strike plan used has probably been on the books in some form, for some time. Some of the weapons used were designed for just such a mission.
Could be .
those bunker busters are just the grand children of the old British tallboys of WW2 basically , just improved .
listening to the news . 14 bombs , corresponds to the 7 b-2s reported , along with 30 tomahawks from subs and elsewhere .
imagine if after the initial bunker busters a thermobaric had be tossed in the hole/s ?
Yeah I’m guessing the Tomahawks were mopping up air defense the IDF missed.
Listening to Iran’s rep to the UN whine at the UN right now. Total horseshit.
Ever watch the movie "Dam Busters"?
many years ago
22,000 lb "Grand Slam"
Always thought that was a strange name for a Brit bomb
yup, those are the ones , took a modified lancaster arvo from the dam buster squadron to carry them .
Those are the ones that made the Tirpitz , sistership to the Bismark , capsize and sink .
bit of trivia , seems a brit base had what they thought were decommissioned tallboy/ grandslams at their base entrance gate .......didnt find out til sometime in the 80s i think , they were NOT decomissioned and demilled .... ooooops .
Surely you have seen me post many time on NT that I believe that Life Imitating Art happens just as Art Imitating Life does.
What really amazes me about Americans these days is that they are not 100% supportive of the bombing of the means for an apocalypse that a fanatical religious extremist govenment that funds, supports, and trains declared terrorist proxies and sets them against innocent people, an extremist government that has been reciting "DEATH TO AMERICA", calling America "The Great Satan", for DECADES, and sets its proxies and attacks innocent people attending a music festival to start a war, the means of carrying out such an apocolypse, including the possibility of at LEAST a possibility achieved in the movie The Sum of All Fears, if not the obliteration of America's ally. I guess it will take another Pearl Harbor to unify the American public. It appears that the unwarrented attack on an important ally, the only real one the USA has in the Middle East, by those who have declared DEATH TO AMERICA is not sufficient to do so.
HOW SHAMEFUL IT IS that so many Americans have forgotten the words of American Army General Alexander Haig who said the Israel is like America having its biggest aircraft carrier in the Middle East without having to have one soldier aboard. America gets important intelligence from the Mossad. Israel considers America to be its greatest ally. Has anyone seen or heard the praise Netanyahu has just declared about Trump?
I, personally, certainly do NOT agree with a lot of what Trump is, what he has done or what he is doing, but I support him 500% when it comes to Israel. For starters he is the ONLY PotUS who kept ALL his promises about Israel. Fortunately, however, every PotUS has maintained the military support of Israel, most likely because doing so is essential for American National Security as well, notwithstanding the disagreement of the self-loathing Jew Bernie Sanders who would throw Israel to the wolves, maybe to please The Squad, especially Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar.
I sure as hell don't hide MY feelings about and 100% support of Israel. That doesn't mean that I have any respect for or support of the Ultra-Orthodox extremist Jews, not only for what they are doing in Israel but for personal reasons from my own history. It should be pretty clear by now that I am not stuck on one side or the other of issues, but I support what I believe is right, no matter what side of the aisle it should fall upon. So please don't "label" me.
Buzz, you need to realize that Americans are tired of fighting wars. The United States has been at war my entire lifetime. I realize Israel has been fighting a few years longer but there's a fundamental difference. Israel fights for itself. The United States has been fighting for others; not for itself. The United States has to be forever at war to protect friends and allies.
The Sept. 11, 2001, attack by al Qaeda unified the United States. Canada was the only country that shouldered arms and patrolled our borders while we grieved and regrouped. So much for all those allies we had fought for. GW Bush put together a backbiting coalition of allies to nation build Afghanistan. And twenty years later its as if nothing happened in Afghanistan, the Taliban are running things just like they were 20 years ago. So, what did the United States fight for?
Ukraine is just another war that means absolutely nothing the US. Same with Israel. Israel fights to exist. Americans only fight to make sacrifices, spend money we don't have, to be lectured, hated, threatened, and attacked. We can't even have one goddammed military parade without being hated, spit on, and death wished. But we're on speed dial the next time a 'friend' feels threatened.
Bombing Iran is not a victory for the United States; it's black mark that we will have to live with until the end of the world. We're the Great Satan. Iran hates the US more than it hates Israel. The only thing the United States will get out of this is more hate. And we will likely be needed for the next war before this one ends.
Israel has had to keep fighting for its very existence. Surely anyone with a brain knows that the nations surrounding it deny Israel's right to be there in the midst of them. They're not concerned that Israel is the land of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, of Solomon and David, of Esther and Jesus - the historical homeland. It was apparent from what happened in WW2 that the Jews in the world HAD to have a place that was theirs, that they could have a place where they could be safe, where the word "Jew" was NOT a swearword, and at least a majority of the United Nations decided that their historical homeland was to be their homeland, although the oil-hungry Arab supporting Brits cut it down from what it was to be. The United Nations has since obviously taken sides with Israel's enemies, so thank God America is still Israel's defender and friend.
Israel has had to defend its existence ever since the days of its regaining it, IMO the words of Bob Dylan's "Neighbourhood Bully" has been the very story told in a song.
September 11 has obviously not been a good enough lesson for Americans. October 7 was a good enough lesson for Israel. There are too many Americans who would rather "Shake Hands With the Devil" than render him harmless.
See? Just another lecture that disparages Americans.
You're welcome.
Oh my! Did I hurt your feelings? I said "Americans" and "many Americans", I did not mean ALL Americans and I did not mean you.
That is a good enough reason for us to bomb the shit out of them as far as I'm concerned
It wasn't a bombing. It was a peaceful protest at every one of these locations. Nothing more.
It was the making of Iran normal again!
Now just big, beautiful holes in the mountain.
Read somewhere Trump was planning a new golf course in iran , he just completed 3 holes .
He is unbelievable!
FOUR MORE YEARS !!!
Lol nope!
Nice …. Good humor is lost on too many people these days