The underbelly of America
I think most people are sick of people resisting arrest and ignoring the instructions of the Police.
Here is the latest example of disrespecting the police:
"Police in Jacksonville, Florida are investigating a "viral" video in which an officer is seen punching a male driver in the face during a traffic stop.
Footage that began circulating on social media over the weekend showed William McNeil Jr. staring at the camera on Feb. 19 as an officer is seen smashing his driver’s side window and demanding that he "exit the vehicle now!" The officer then strikes McNeil in the face before he is dragged out of the car and taken into custody.
"At my direction, the agency immediately began both a criminal and administrative review of the officers’ actions. These administrative reviews are ongoing, but the state attorney's office has determined that none of the involved officers violated criminal law," Jacksonville Sheriff T.K. Waters said Monday while releasing a longer bodycam video of the incident.
"I want to be clear about something. Yes, there absolutely was force used by the arresting officers. And yes, that force is ugly. But as I've said many times before, the reality is that all force, all violence is ugly, and just because force is ugly does not mean it's unlawful or contrary to policy," he added.
Waters said the arresting officer involved in the incident, whom he identified as D. Bowers, has been "stripped" of his law enforcement authority pending the outcome of the administrative review.
He also said "officers found a large unsheathed serrated knife on the driver's side floorboard" of McNeil’s vehicle.
"After this traffic stop on February 19, 2025, McNeil was arrested for resisting a police officer without violence, driving on suspended driver's license, and possession of less than 20 grams of marijuana. On February 20th, 2025, McNeil pled guilty to and was adjudicated guilty of resisting a police officer without violence and driving on a suspended driver's license," the sheriff also said.
Waters noted that despite McNeil receiving his cell phone back in early March, which "he presumably used to record the footage that was shared on social media," he never filed a complaint with the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office or shared the video with authorities. "
Jacksonville police investigate viral video of officer punching driver | Fox News
I think the ass in the car got what he deserved.
You be the judge:
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Was it NECESSARY to sucker punch the guy in the car for just sitting there, in your opinion Vic? And, why is he an "ASS" Vic?
Yes, it was.
And, why is he an "ASS" Vic?
Where should I begin? He ignored everything the cops told him to do and decided to debate them and sit there.
Now I have a question for you. Why is he exempt from the same rules the rest of us have to follow?
No. This was clearly a violation and those cops will get sued and they will lose and I hope they all get fired and fined because they CLEARLY used excessive force. This guy didn't do shit other than ask for information as to why they were demanding he exit the vehicle.
Also, why the fuck do they need him to exit the vehicle for not having head lights on? This should have been a cop stating that he was fining the driver for a moving violation, hand him the ticket and then move on. Why are there multiple cops surround the vehicle and a cop breaking a window and sucker punching him in the face when he does not make ANY aggressive move towards the officers.
This is why there are still so many black Americans who don't trust the police and its clear that in some places the police departments are chock full of raging bigots. Fucking worthless scum treating an American citizen this way. I get that their jobs are hard, but they have no right to treat citizens like this and if this had happened to me I'd know I'd be spending the next year or two suing the city, the police department and the officers in question and I have zero doubt that with the video I would win that case and be looking at a 7 figure award.
Hey, you do know that ignoring an officers commands DOES NOT GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOU! Perhaps you believe that only applies to you and people that look like you, but it also applies to black Americans as well. There are procedures in place that officers are taught for those refusing to comply and NONE of those procedures allow beating someone in the face who is doing nothing more than sitting there. But I get it, some people think that those non-violent procedures don't need to be followed for "thugs". If it's a "thug" then rightwing conservative Trump supporters don't think civil rights or civil laws should apply, they've always hated those, "thugs". The MAGAites have to be careful they don't let their old favorite epithet slip out because that would expose their real motives.
I watched the video and you have got to be kidding. So the guy in the car was a little bit of a hard case. So what? Thats a reason to smash his window and punch him in the face? The cop that did that was clearly overcome with rage. You can see it bubbling up inside him.
My guess would be that this sort of thing happens hundreds of times every day across the country , the great majority of which do not end with a cop punching the driver in the face.
That's because they're not allowed to except under the most extreme situations.
The video above clearly shows that there was no time when this type of excessive force was necessary and it's clear he wasn't being charged or even suspected of any violent crime. This is just another example of a bad likely bigoted cop getting pissed off that a black man dared to question his authority, so he felt had to 'teach that 'thug' a lesson'.
I saw the video and I would say punching him in the face was not reasonable at all. Cops should have more self control. Most cops are "alpha" , they want to dominate and do not object to fighting.
I once had a nephew that got into a street brawl at a St Patricks day parade. One of my friends , who was a cop, was at my party and when he heard this went on he started laughing , saying the cops from that precinct would kick everybody's asses because they were known for liking to fight.
One of another one of my nephews wife is a Cook County Sheriffs Police deputy. I have seen her bragging at parties about how she likes to beat people up who give her a hard time.
He is not exempt from the rules that others have to follow, because how many videos do you see of others do you see getting sucker punched behind the wheel? More to the point, he clearly was NOT exempt from having his car window 'wrecked' and being snatched out his car and thrown to the ground.
So I ask again, was it NECESSARY to punch the guy in the hard? Did it 'soften' him up for the 'dragging out' that was to come? I'll answer that: "No." It was gratuituous.
Now then, what would be your opinion had that punch landed on you by a Policeman? How was that punch "helpful" to getting him to get out of the car?
This is an example of 'old-school' policing. Using any delay as a reason to result in brutality. . . instead of patience, understanding, and reason. The driver asked for a shift supervisor to be present. . . and he was beat for it. Others get that - when they ask for it. It's called de-escalation. If necessary the supervising officer on duty could use the siren system allotted him or her to arrive on the 'requested' scene in mere minutes.
There is no justification for brutalizing a citizen simply because he is non-compliant in a non-violent ticketing case.
How does that justify punching him? Not once, but several times. Also, how does it justify damaging the vehicle?
What rule says you get punched and your property gets damaged because you argued?
70's interactions with corrupt cops is why I have instant access to an automatic filled with hollow points in my car.
Old 70's saying, "Head shots only, body armour is a reality".
The statement from the State Attorney says "physical resistance is not one" of the ways to challenge the actions of police officers. I watched the video, where does he "physically resist"? He doesn't get out of the car, but that's not physical resistance. He puts his hands up when they ask him to and then violently drag him from the vehicle and punch him in the face again as he does nothing but take it and some here think that's totally justified and they likely hope to see more of the "thugs" he hates so much treated the same. Very sad that we have such folk who cheer on this kind of blatant police abuse.
And yes, this video does expose the ugly Underbelly of American cops abusing their authority.
This is an instance where 'black trauma' will accrue. Our police officers, for the police force aspires to serve all citizens well, should not be caught in the act of provoking citizens. There is always a supervisor available on any shift-a citizen asked for one. . .and was ignored and savagely punched. Now then, considering the countenance of the officer doing the punching. . .it could be quite painful (seeing stars) or injurious damaging to the bone structure in the face!
Vic, should be concerned about any and all other times this, "Officer Punch" has suckered punch citizens he finds unresponsive to his 'order.'
... trained to violate the 4th/5th amendments by police departments across the country. there shouldn't be any penalty for whatever might happen to LE or elected officials that violate a victim's constitutional rights. not only should they lose their jobs, they should bear full financially liability in civil court, and never be allowed to work as a civil servant again.
Exactly what MAGA voters were looking for, racist Gestapo police willing to use whatever force necessary to kneel on the necks of progressives, liberals and minorities that refuse to bow to their self-anointed authority.
Gee, he did not have his lights on ... neither did any of the 4 police cars that showed up for this desperate criminal.
I live in Jacksonville. This video did not go "viral", but of course, the case made the local news. The guy deserved what he got for refusing police orders. He was deemed a threat to the police and he s lucky his ass didn't get tased.
What will happen is the city will settle with the guy because he has the newest race baiter Ben Crump as his attorney and we don't want him here. The only reason the city will settle s because our mayor is a democrat that was elected based on her name recognition and most democrat mayors are known to just throw in the towel without throwing a punch.
This is not time for 'routine' partisanship! Sure he could have gotten out,. . . but then what if it had gone 'south' from that point on? As it did when he stayed inside. After all, he was sucker punched while in the car simply for 'demanding' to speak to a supervisor. What violence is taking place while asking for a supervisor? Were their no shift supervisor available? Of course there is always a shift supervisor available!
I get the conservative 'perspective' that minorities whom do not conform to a conservative 'attitude' with law enforcement stops should have their heads clubbed and their bodies 'humiliated' - or worse, but we can see this man asked for a higher ranking officer to be on the scene. . . and he did not get that before being physically injured and humiliated. Humiliation at the hands of law enforcement should be kept minimal.
Now, show us some evidence that a supervisor was CALLED before this citizen was 'degraded.'
That kid should have unlocked his door and got out. He had no right to lock himself in there and the police don't have to bring in a supervisor whenever one is requested. The way i see it is the cops had the right to break the window and drag him out and cuff him. The punch was Illegal and the cop should be prosecuted for that, it was totally uncalled for and it was the very definition of police brutality and that cop should never be allowed to wear a badge again.
What law had he broken?
Understanding Police Etiquette in Jacksonville, Florida
General Guidelines for Interactions
Stay Calm : Remain composed during a traffic stop or police encounter.
Follow Instructions : Comply with the officer's requests promptly and respectfully.
Keep Hands Visible : Place your hands on the steering wheel or in plain sight to avoid misunderstandings.
Rights During a Traffic Stop
Right to Remain Silent : You can choose not to answer questions beyond identifying yourself.
Right to Ask for a Supervisor : If you feel uncomfortable, you can request to speak with a supervisor .
Right to Record : You may record the interaction as long as it does not interfere with police duties.
use the drop down for " More"
Why not let him sit in his car until the supervisor arrive as he requested (since he has a right to ask for a Supervisor)? How many times in the video did he ask to speak to a supervisor?
And if the kid unlocked his door and got out and said, "I'm sorry officer, I didn't realize it," he would have probably got a warning. It would have ended there.
Many people don't have the ability to do those 2 basic things. And that is why this incident escalated. All this clown had to do was stay calm and follow instructions and he'd be happily on his way. But, he had to have his 15 minutes of being a dumbass.
This is a propaganda list that anti police activists have put out to the black community.
It has long been known that black children have been taught these points at a young age but the best thing is for parents to teach their children to just obey the law.
When was the last time a cop made you get out of your vehicle for not having your headlights on? When was the last time you were asked to exit the vehicle for any traffic violation other than perhaps if the cops smelled alcohol on your breath?
I've seen far more obstinate white drivers who were cussing out cops and throwing a fit and even some trying to resist arrest by running, none of them were repeatedly punched in the face. Tackled? Sure. Pinned to the ground? Sure. Repeatedly beat in the face? Almost never. Every time I've seen that it's led to the cops being fired and sued and the department paying out a massive fine, because that kind of conduct by our officers tasked and paid to protect us is NOT OKAY!
So regardless of whether this young man did what he did or kneeled and begged like some conservative apparently think he should have and asked for this white cop to stop punching him in the face and could have said "Oh Mista, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize I was not following your orders with enough alacrity", the cop had NO right to repeatedly assault him.
And, when was the last time you were "asked" to get out of your vehicle instead of them telling you to stay inside with hands visible on the wheel?
And why is that? Something 'bout cops being killed more frequently from drivers not exiting their cars than from those who exit the vehicles with their full body visible.
Just a thought.
He was driving with a suspended license. I doubt a warning was going to suffice.
I haven't been pulled over in decades. Not because I am white, but because I follow the rules.
Some people think the rules are not for them.
Funny, you seem to give the benefit of the doubt to police officers, who do NOT honor their own city policing policy listed at 3.1.2.
Look, there will always be a shoulda-coulda-woulda in situations like this. That is, an alternative way of looking at what actually occurred. However, let's deal with what did happen: The citizen asked for a SUPERVISOR. . . and the alternative supplied him was a beating up side the head and a resisting arrest charge.
Indeed, the officers have the AWESOME power of the state behind them. . . all the more reason such power should not be used to abuse.
You are entitled to your opinion. . . and I don't have any wish to assist you in sharing it farther. Good day!
So prove that it is a "propaganda list" and while you are at it: Talk about the propaganda that police should be obeyed even when they are the provocation. BTW, when did conservatives start being 'Servants' of the system and propping up police are right even when they violate and ignore city policy.
FULL: Jacksonville Sheriff T.K. Waters addresses viral traffic stop
Refusing to roll down your window is the worst thing you can do during a traffic stop. Once he did that the only thing that mattered was getting him out of the car so they could frisk him. Any rights he may have had during a routine traffic stop disappeared the moment he refused to roll the window down because that's the moment he became a danger to the officers. I really hate seeing shit like this. On one hand you've got a dumbass kid breaking the law and when caught refuses to follow reasonable directions, on the other hand you have a crooked ass Cop who thinks he has the right to punch people in the face if they piss him off and they are both wrong.
I can see your point. But, I would caution you that the two 'commands' - in 3.1.2 are in 'conflict.' That is, citizens are to follow law enforcement instructions. . . . That said, law enforcement has a responsibility to use de-escalation tactics and know and follow their own city policies and stated policing policies. Such policies should be clear as to which is more PRIORITIZED in the event of what occurred happening.
1. This incident shows that the citizen did not follow the officer/s on the scene instructions-in due course of street officers requesting and instructions.
2. This incident shows that the citizen did follow the city policy/RIGHT of asking for SUPERVISOR in the event of his being uncomfortable with his current 'surroundings.'
Finally, the street 'cops' knew he was going no where as he did not start his car. As an officer blocked his 'path' to go anywhere. And, still he was attacked - rendered helpless. And, did not get what he was 'promised' in law: An on-scene visit by a SUPERVISOR.
That is the way I see it. If I saw it any different I would not be 'afraid' to say so.
So then, . . . after my sharing which should have been prioritized: 1 or 2 (above)? In your opinion?
Not his job to apologize
Neither party acted appropriately. I almost never get pulled over but when I do I put both hands out of the window and inform the officer that I am carrying a loaded firearm. Never have had a problem.
...is because they violated the law and abused their authority. Fuck those racist cops and fuck their fellow bigots who think the treatment of this American citizen was warranted because they have labeled him and those who look like him "thugs".
[✘]
It's a common tactic by Sovcits and other suspects to ask for supervisor to delay the investigation. By LAW a suspect is REQUIRED to obey the lawful commands of a law enforcement officer. To do otherwise calls for charges of obstruction and/or resistance.
You wouldn't believe what cops in todays society has to put up with on a daily basis
And yes, we would believe that you would like us to believe that conservatives are 'model' citizens while liberals (and Others) are 'train-wrecks,' violent, and 'criminals looking for their next victim.' Why is that? For example, how much different would this incident be than if it was a known or situational VIOLENT criminal in the car refusing to come out?
If no difference or insignificant difference then you can see how WRONG this is on its face. That there are black officers who are roughing up this twenty something (is he a thug/jailbird/harden criminal?) just points to how police are trained to go overboard.
3.1.2 above addresses the city of Jacksonville police etiquette. It says the driver had a right to request a Supervisor. Therefore, the officers should have provided him with a Supervisor. Instead someone (off screen) shouted: "Do it!" and his driver side glass was shattered and he was sucker punched hard! Dragged out of his car and given a 'show of force.'
Funny, that you can say he was in the wrong for asking for what City of Jacksonville, Florida offered him (a Supervisor) and what the city also called a citizen RIGHT!
Then you charge him with that. That is the appropriate government response - not beat the shit out of someone who is not a physical threat.
This clown escalated the whole situation. He was given simple instructions.
I'm really astonished at the amount of boot-licking I see here. Just because a law enforcement officer demands you do something doesn't mean you have to. No crime = no ID or legal compliance. IN THIS CASE, the guy was within his rights to not be removed for a simple moving violation nor did it demand his arrest. The officers clearly responded to his non-aggressive refusal of their demands with inappropriate actions. Asking for a supervisor is not resisting!
Some people really have no clue how to behave in a "civilized" society. For the Christian conservative, it's all about the cruelty now. What ever happened to the Beatitudes? This type of hypocrisy is why I left the Church and became Wiccan.
Once the guy was notified of the traffic violation he had a duty to comply with the cop's orders. He was not within his rights to continue to argue. You want to argue, do it in court. The punch was out of line, though. There was no reason for it.
He was not given the Supervisor 'visit' that is a citizen's RIGHT (see 3.1.2)! When does that kick in - in your worldview? Line officers, the Jacksonville, Florida police policy establishes are not 'supervisory' officers. Surely, the city knew what it wanted to happen when they wrote the RIGHT into the stature.
It is incredulous to me that you do not think the OFFICERS have a 'duty' to know what the RIGHTS of the citizens of their town are. This is not about police rights. . . which neglect CITIZEN rights!
I think the guy got what he asked for, with the exception of the face punch. That was completely unnecessary and over the line. If he can't control his anger he shouldn't be a cop.
When looking at the people law enforcement have to deal with, I think he showed restraint.
The problem is a culture that has evolved into a crime ridden mess.
That crime ridden mess hold law enforcement to a certain standard while they don't hold themselves to any standard.
What was this guys crime again that makes this an example of "crime ridden mess"? Oh, that's right, I guess I don't have to ask since for most rightwing conservatives his crime was written all over his face.
If it had not been for the punch, I would agree. The presence of multiple cops suggests to me that the driver had been at this for a while. Once they'd had enough, they broke the window. The driver did not escalate at that point. Right after the window, the cop throws the punch. I see nothing that warrants it. Immediately after the punch, they open the car door, cop unbuckles his seat belt and the guy exits without resistance when they pull him out.
If a punch had been warranted at any point of this, it seems to me it would have been after the door was opened and if the guy had struggled to remain in the car. I can't see any useful purpose for the punch being thrown when it had. I say this partially for the rights of the driver and partly for the protection of the officers. I think a jury would wonder the same thing I'm wondering about why the punch was thrown, which only hurts the cops. The police can still charge this guy with whatever, but that doesn't prevent the driver from also suing for excessive force. Police have to keep this in mind, or they may as well punch themselves in the face.
That's how it seems to me, anyway.
Where is the crime? Stop blaming the guy who was just sitting in his car, before law enforcement stopped him, accosted him, ruined his window, and beat him severely and that includes the black brutes (who clearly have forgotten what it means (if they ever knew) to be the 'underdog') that mocked him for wanting to see a Supervisor.
Is it always ok to punch someone because they test your patience?
So, the first punch was not okay. What about the second punch to the face at 0:58 of the video?
Some might argue he didn't escalate before that, but okay, so you admit he doesn't escalate after that point. So, what do the cops do? as you say "they open the car door, cop unbuckles his seat belt and the guy exits without resistance when they pull him out." AND THEN THEY PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE AGAIN!
He didn't but that racist cop punched him anyway.
There was no purpose other than another likely rightwing conservative white supremacist bitch wanted to feel manly and punched a black man because he thought he could get away with it.
Not turning on his headlights in a headlight during the day required area? I'm pretty sure the award he will receive from these clearly racist morons overstepping their authority will allow him to afford whatever ticket he might be responsible for paying.
Yes. I wish all those who use their racism and bigotry to inform their duties, especially those paid to keep citizens safe and to NOT punch the citizens they are paid to protect in the face just because they're a pissed off bigot, would punch themselves in the face. And you know what, maybe I can go as far as to say they should quit their jobs to. Oh, wait, sorry. I don't want to be accused by those on the right of 'canceling' one of their heroes.
Officers have nothing but time as it relates to the law. Now if this had been about officer safety I could understand. It was not about officer safety for the citizen was sitting in his car. . . likely because he did not feel safe exiting it. Any Police (chief) can understand this. Why? For one thing, this citizen was not talked to like a citizen. . . he was approached like he had done something CRIMINAL-as in a crime being reported. . . headlights off inclement weather. . . escalates to beating, pulling, smashing, and 'dragging.' There is no way in heaven or hell. . . any of us would believe this would proceed similarly for a white citizen. . . and let's not forget this citizen requested multiple times his RIGHT to speak to a supervisor. Many cars showed up. . . none apparently a supervisor.
Was the request to HONOR HIS RIGHT TO SPEAK TO A SUPERVISOR ever radio-ed to a/the supervisor? It would have helped this scenario by calming it somewhat.
Why have a RIGHT to speak to a supervisor on Jacksonville's Police Department policy if it won't be honored when requested by a citizen?
Where is the DE-ESCALATION tactic in this video. . . for example, the officer goes straight to 'confrontational' verbiage (which puts anybody on defense) when he is 'challenged' with a question. Are citizens allowed to ask officers questions without them getting there "self-righteous indignant' stirred?
Sure the young man could get out of the car and. . . face whatever he has 'incoming' from this officer. But many of us can attest to how roadside traffic stops can turn into "he said-she said-they said moments.
I repeat, the young man, had a RIGHT to talk to a POLICE SUPERVISOR UPON REQUEST.
None of the conservatives commenting are willing to ignore the police 'ignorance' of the policy/law regarding making a supervisor available during a traffic stop if requested by an uncomfortable citizen.
I will.
one of course have the right to request to speak to a supervisor , but there are caveats as usual , one being one has to be available and can arrive in a timely manner . and if there is one , and they are busy with another call , the request usually waits until things are brought to the station if at all in that case .
just because one has the right to ask for one does not mean one will be available and come running .
Remember the 'old days' - I won't call them, "good" when police were pejoratively called and labeled "Pigs." It was a long time and the 'sentiment' was pervasive because of strong-arm tactics which created fear in the population for "the Man." Well, this phone video and the longer version I posted in a comment above gives insight into the period. Here we have 'car loads' of authorized men and husky men. . . taking down a twenty-something with no ability in this situation to defend himself or do major harm to officers. Just brute force policing throughout.
That is why the public began to call them 'pigs' (big, brutish, 'sloppy') and hated the 'blue.' (Because the 'blue' in some towns appears to want to be obeyed and feared rather than respected.
Thank you for sharing. Now, I have to ask several questions:
1. 3.2.1 is clear that it is a citizen's right to speak to a Supervisor, yes or no?
2. How is that to be facilitated by the on-scene officers?
3. Does anything in the video demonstrate that this citizen's RIGHT to feel uncomfortable enough to make a request for supervisor was ignored?
your not going to like my opinion or answers .
1. they have that right to ASK or request a supervisor , doesnt mean they will get one .
i know you won't like that answer its like a Karen or Kenneth wanting to speak to a store manager , might happen might not depends on if they are available, if they are not available , then it falls to a shift supervisor , and in all likelihood thats the best you will get and wont like their answer because they are on the floor as well . .
2. well with this video , and the number of officers present , i counted 3 with number 4 arriving in a marked car, they all know who has seniority on scene , so the decision falls to them .
3. big fat NOPE. the attempt at a stall or time out didnt work in this case .
Then, can you share with us why you think Jacksonville, Florida has a public RIGHT to request for a supervisor during traffic stops if it can not be used in an uncomfortable stop incident? What 'good' does the RIGHT serve if it can be ignored?
And how is the public expected to know that it is an 'empty' RIGHT with no reasonable intent to be used.
Finally, let's be clear, this car and its driver was going nowhere. One he was blocked in. BTW, he was not attempting to go anywhere anyway. You and I both know this.
There is no significant reason that this man was denied The RIGHT the city afforded him.
Those officers wanted to be obeyed and used force to get compliance, and by doing what they did they deeply and significantly failed the test of spirit of the law and a right of the citizen to protection from police violence.
That is what you posted as the right , correct?
Asking and requesting in no way means that will happen , especially if one is not available, and no where does it say one would be forthcoming . its not rocket science understanding plain english .
now i dont know where in the provided video it shows the driver was blocked in and could not drive away , i must have missed that . as for not going anywhere ? i cant say , i have seen people panic and turn rabbit at traffic stops . Your saying he was blocked in is not shown in the video , and thats all i saw ,besides if he did rabbit , a car blocking wouldnt have really stopped him . I would have personally considered this a high risk traffic stop simply for the non compliance of simple instructions .
Of course the officers wanted to be obeyed , all do , and all are enabled to use the amount of force necessary to gain compliance .
like i said in post 9, you could see on the guys face the exact moment he knew for sure that he had fucked up, and by then it was too late to play nice , he knew he was coming out of that car whether he wanted to or not .
as a side note , he plead and was found guilty of the charges stemming from this stop already back when he went to court in what was it ,March .
I hadn't noticed the second punch. Reviewing it again, the second seems questionable to me. It didn't seem necessary.
How did you determine that he was racist? I've seen LOTS of videos of white cops doing the same sorts of things to white suspects. Is it always racism for you if it is a white cop and a black suspect? What is it when it's a white cop on white suspects? How do you classify that?
And now you've lost my interest. Can't argue with someone who just dumps everything that happens into a category that represents their own anger management issues.
So the 'Right' is worthless on its face, in your opinion. Why is that? We are told we are a color-blind society by conservatives. So why all this respect for the 'blue' when innocent people are being given the same or similar beat downs by law enforcement that armed and dangerous criminals might receive? I feel pretty sure that certain citizens in Florida would get a supervisor is they asked for one doing a traffic stop!
Do share with us why you suspect or suggest that a supervisor was not "available" - I find no mention of unavailability by a supervisor in either of the video accounts. Besides, there was not time spent asking for one in the video by the officer: Officers 'arrived' in a hurried fashion and he was given the 'treatment' we call can remember from a 'by-gone' era in the twentieth century - today!
You may wish to take the time to watch (or speed through) the video at 3.1.13 . Clearly, turning "rabbit" would not help him since an officer in his cruiser is sitting right in front of him and backing up comes with a different set of policing 'problems.'
Officers of the law should serve the law not their own self-indulgence on the public. The offense this young man caused was not deserving of the injuries and property damages he suffered simply because he wished to use a RIGHT the city of Jacksonville, Florida afforded him.
This was police abuse of a citizen who did what he was rightly permitted to do in a traffic stop. No in or buts about it. He did not assault or touch anyone and once the officers got in 'place' it was their proper duty to get him a 'requested supervisor. This young man was not a criminal.
Rights During a Traffic Stop
Right to Remain Silent : You can choose not to answer questions beyond identifying yourself.
Right to Ask for a Supervisor : If you feel uncomfortable, you can request to speak with a supervisor .
Right to Record : You may record the interaction as long as it does not interfere with police duties.
duckduckgo use the drop down for " More"
You should ask a white cop why they sucker punch other whites when it is inappropriate and likely provoking. In this case, it certainly did not de-escalate the situation. But, less be clear, this was not about de-escalation. . .it was about teaching this young black man to stay in his 'place' as something Other in society—through an experience of black trauma.
After taking your advice and watching the Sheriffs presser , and reviewing the body cam footage , you are correct ,in my view he had little chance to turn rabbit even if he chose to .
that does not negate the fact he arrogantly tried to argue the stop , as well as arrogantly was confrontational at least verbally with officers , something that should have been argued in court and not on the road side .
His own actions lead to exactly what happened , as far as a supervisor , remember what i said senior person on scene , and the officer that went to the passenger side it appears to have been that person gave the go ahead from what i heard from that body cam to proceed .
My view , the driver , handled everything wrongly from the start, his choice to go full dumb ass was his to make , resulting in what happened .
If i had to sum it all up , the cops were "nice " right up to the point it became necessary not to be nice. a classic roadhouse Dalton moment . when it became necessary not to be nice was decided by the senior officer, just like it was Dalton to decide when not to be nice .
This statement of yours skirts the issue. Where was the Supervisor for which the RIGHT authorized. You have no evidence that the 'voice' was anything other than a(nother) officer. As 'the voice' does not state that it has the authority to speak on behalf of the supervisor.
Watch using bias for police and policing. Just to be clear, I do not wish anything to happen to the officers. . . but, in this case, it is a citizen who needs our understanding.
Also, there is a complication to this story. . . the suspended license. It is an offense under Jacksonville, Florida law. So there is that to consider. We are not told the details of the suspended license offense. . . (first time offense, does the citizen have knowledge about the suspension, second time offense, or repeat offender)
Again, I am not sure "senior' officer on scene meets the RIGHT requirement of a Supervisor on duty.
BTW, none of this might happen if citizens and police learn to have some respect for each other. But, that is a 'sermon' for another time.
Sure, being a police officer is a difficult and highly probably dangerous job with awesome responsibilities, but so is being a citizen under the close scrutiny of an officer who wants to hurt, injure, or maim someone because a citizen do not respond precisely as instructed!
An issue important to you but irrelevant to me , thats where we are on that point .
The right to request a supervisor , ok , the right to keep and bear arms . both rights now request either of them , are you guaranteed to get either simply because you asked for one ?
as for the rest its basically farting for attention .
I will sum this up as it appears to me .
a valid traffic stop was made
individual stopped disagreed with the reason for stop , became both belligerent and non co-operative or compliant . after several failed attempts to establish compliance , that failed due to subjects belligerent stance , the next level of gaining compliance was employed . resulting in the apprehension and taking into custody of said subject .
Oh i loved that one , does he know he has a suspended lic ? doesn't fucking matter , ignorance is not an excuse , and it was his responsibility to comply with simple and reasonable instructions of ided police officers whether he agreed with them or not the place to argue was in court , not on the road side at a traffic stop. simple, so say something else funny .
senior officer on scene not meeting to your satisfaction of a supervisor is totally irrelevant as well as not your call , that is up to the jurisdiction and its policies .
Sounds like your planning an article or something to clear the air with a "sermon "let me know when its to take place , i will make sure to schedule a boil lancing . since you are not my particular selected clerical spiritual guide . and your particular opinions carry little to no weight of conscience with me .
I put the statement about the suspended license in to let it be established that I am not being partisan when I point out the Right. Jacksonville, Florida gave its citizens that right-not me. For one thing I have never been in the state of Florida (to care about rights to be experienced there locally).
Oh, and for the record: A citizen driver has to KNOW that his or her license is suspended - I looked it up before I made comment on that aspect (so it does matter under the law):
What a sourpuss response. In the future, I probably will not respond to you at all as it is irksome and tiresome. You win, because well, isn't it obvious: You can not lose if you'll receive nothing that differs from your perspective.
I await whatever comes (back) and don't worry I probably won't comment on it.
well , even IF he didnt know about the suspension, a claim in my estimation is dubious , but plausible , the fact now is , now he does know , through official notifications . Im sure when he went to court , he was told so .
Agreed.
Masked, ARMED, NO ID, no WARRANT, NO PROOF OF LEGAL AUTHORITY TO ARREST ANYONE, NO RECORD OF ARREST NOR VERIFICATION OF STATUS, LOCATIONS, FUTURE ACTIONS, DURATION OF INCARCERATION … this isn't ICE, it's MAGA BOUNTY HUNTING.
Be not shocked by the emergence of "50-MAN SYG* MILITIAS".
*SYG = STAND YOUR GROUND
Stand Your Ground laws generally allow individuals to use deadly force in self-defense without a duty to retreat, as long as they are in a place they have a legal right to be and are not engaged in criminal activity.
[✘] there is no perversion of SYG that allows anyone to shoot law enforcement officers for detaining them.
anyone who attempts this will be guilty of murder and progressives aren't going to be able to murder their way out of following our duly enacted immigration laws.
And this has what to do with the seed?
I somehow think that comment was not meant for this article .
Dont know which is being called a sucker punch , because i saw 2,one right after the window got popped and the cop was clearing the shattered window , and the 2nd outside the car .
the window clearing one is easy to explain really , and the guy did the right thing after the cop popped the window , he stayed still as could be and didnt move . Thing is from my point of view , the look on his face as soon as the window tool was used said it all , he knew he had messed up , and that he was exiting that car , be it through the window , or an open door , but he WAS getting out .
Here is something my LEO experience does tell me , they already knew who the car belonged to before they even made contact . SOP for traffic stops , call in the plate and see who it is registered too. Most people with suspended or revoked lics , never have their plates taken from them for vehicles they have , and they tend to drive them because even good friends wont loan them their cars. driving on a revoked lic is reason enough to have them step out of the vehicle , refusal just makes it worse .
Now the part with clearing the shattered glass, wasnt in my view a sucker punch , but the one once out of the car , restrained and just before they took him to the ground ? that was a sucker punch .
I also saw an article today where the DA said after review of the video , that no law was broken by the police .
I wont mention the unsheathed serrated knife on the drivers side floor board mentioned in the article .
I will wait and see how long that lasts ,
noun
verb
yeah i know and i think we all know what a sucker punch is , i have a nice scar on my lip line that took 6 stiches to close because of one .
and the reason for the definition and point attempting to be made is ?
It's a definition for "sucker punch." It speaks for itself. The video shows that the citizen was not expecting to receive a "sucker punch" from a public servant while sitting in his car.
But the public servant is always ready for those that do not want to comply and resist.
The sucker ounch was not good, but as we have said a hundred times’ If he complied with the orders, he probably would have been let off fairly easy’.
Some people are hell bent on ‘screwing the man’
Don't know what to say to the hypothetical. He could have just as easily been shot to death under the circumstances. So, as far as hypotheticals go. . . we should be grateful for the relatively mind abuse??
Please. How fucking obvious can you be?
I don't know where you live, Vic, but I'm in a lily-white part of the country, and I'm here to tell you that the vast majority of crimes around here, including heinous crimes, are committed by white people.
Just last December a woman living right down the road from me got drunk and murdered her own parents. Some kind of custody dispute about her child after the State declared her an unfit parent. Guess what, she was white.
Several years ago a man grabbed a 10-year-old girl off the street in a medium-sized city near me, raped her in his basement, shot her in the back of the head, and threw her in a garbage bag. Guess what, he was white.
That same city (85% white and controlled by Republicans in a Republican district) has nearly twice the average crime rate compared to the national average in murder, rape, robbery, and assault. I just did a quick search, and news articles for two recent convictions came up for child molestation there. Guess what, the perpetrators were both white.
Not only do you seem to whole-heartedly support a traitorous, criminal fucking tyrant with multiple personality disorders in a country that was explicitly founded in opposition to tyranny, but here you are trying to tell us that a black guy being uncooperative at a simple (and questionable) traffic stop in which the police grossly overreacted, damaging his property and then beating him, is... and I quote – "the underbelly of society."
That narrative is about as transparent as it gets. Who do you think you're fooling with this shit?
There are people in here that are taught/told to defend law enforcement actions that keep "Others" in check in society. It is what Trump is putting forward in blue states. . . HE is the 'new' sheriff in town and he is itching to bust any head that won't conform. . . looks like that 'message' is trickling down to locals itching to hit. I mean a public policy RIGHT (3.1.2) was ignored while some here defend office obliviousness and domination of the public. And yes, black officers are on the scene and assent to what occurred and how it occurred.
Seems to me I can remember when some state or city passed laws that would stop police from roughing up on citizens simply because they can. Perhaps, Jacksonville, Florida is not that place, nevertheless.
Police want to be given the benefit of the doubt, but then this!
We need more straight talk and sincerity like this. . . from everybody here. Thank you for opening up with a truth perspective.
Our friend Dig ALWAYS speaks the truth.
The truth requires facts.
Two things many, if not most, right wingers are totally unfamiliar with.
I am compelled to agree. Some right-wingers seem to care for spinning pain into the lives of Others. They, right-wingers, have turned this world upside down for no good reason than it was possible to do so. The sad truth is mostly all, not completely all I guess, right-wingers need something to act against (a foil). For instance: White versus Black, Pagan versus Christian/religion (to a point anyway), rich versus poor, hierarchy vs equality, and fighting versus peace (with Others).
'Spiritually' determined to not see race and racism even when it is in 'play,' eh? Since you went there: It would be interesting to discover if MAGA's believe and teach others about a white Jesus.
You never should have brought that up. It forces me to publish the statistics that some here hate to see:
"The proportion of violent incidents involving white offenders (53%), based on victims’ perceptions of the offenders, was lower than the share of white persons in the population (61%).
The share of violent incidents involving black offenders (25%) was greater than the population percentage of black persons (12%)."
Arrests And Crime Victims By Race And Ethnicity | Crime in America.Net
And when you consider that the black share was mostly young black men rather than black women the ratio is more like 6% of the population committing 12% of the violent crime. I was very lenient here. I didn't mention the murder rate. Next time you might just want to stick with the incident and what was justified rather than injecting race.
That, be it true or not, I have not verified or looked for nuance regarding your 'stats' listed above; it has nothing to do with what Dig shared with you:
Surely, you can answer his 'concern' or fact statement without attempting use other people alleged stats as a pretext and cover! Eh?
Moreover, I discern from this. . . demonstration. . . that MAGA supporters may have come to some conclusion that white people are morally better than black people: What say you?
It absolutely does. He gave me his perception of crime, and I gave him crime stats and btw big cities have been fudging & underreporting their crime stats, so what I gave him is probably worse than it would appear.
Surely, you can answer his 'concern' or fact statement without attempting use other people alleged stats as a pretext and cover! Eh?
I'm not giving "other people" "alleged" stats. I'm using a respectable source for crime statistics. Him declaring that a "lily-white" part of the country produces white criminals is kind of silly don't you think. It's like saying I netted a school of Cod and only got Cod.
Moreover, I discern from this. . . demonstration. . . that MAGA supporters may have come to some conclusion that white people are morally better than black people: What say you?
That would be a highly generalized conclusion. I would say that most black Americans I know are decent people and I happen to relate to them. However, there is a serious problem with the inner-city population which never gets discussed. There is a cultural problem there and that is why I chose the title that I did. Btw it was Truman Capote who first used the term "underbelly of America." I don't want anyone to think I stole it from him.
Well, if you have to write: ". . . big cities have been fudging & underreporting their crime stats, so what I gave him is probably worse than it would appear."
The operative word: Probably - is doing a lot of work there! Do not use weasel words at times like this for it could be expressed bias.
I will leave that for you and Dig to clarify. That said, what I gleaned from the paragraph is that crime 'happens' even in the 'purest,' potentially 'best' parts of the country by and to the 'best' of families, citizens, and strangers. More over, that there are various factors which cause crime which must be accounted and adjusted for such that nuance (details) can better explain the numbers.
Well, unfortunately or fortunately, cities ('inner') are not countryside or plains. We label them, "concrete jungles" because of their fullness and crowd-iness into the millions. . .why would you have expectation that folks in cities would live the 'experience' of "small town America?" They are worlds apart in nearly every way. . . starting with the words: "World-class" to describe each of them. More people. More issues. More to experience. More to resolve.
World-class cities are where all types of people congregate - congest(ion) will happen with some 'fallout' as a given.
Do yourself a favor. . . accent the positive about city life from time to time and let the negativism alone. . . for a change. Under the circumstances, things in cities could always be varying degrees better. . . or worse considering the TRAFFIC that passes through them!
Finally, tell us about these black people and what in your opinion makes them decent (or not if you want to extrapolate that too). Also, can you tell us about the cultural problem you see in the "inner city" . . . what is it and who is responsible for it in your opinion?