McCarthy: "'We Intended the Strike to Be Lethal' Is Not a Defense"
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McCarthy: "'We Intended the Strike to Be Lethal' Is Not a Defense"
NRO's Andrew McCarthy on why strike on defenseless survivors of strike on drug boat was "at best, a war crime under federal law."
Jonathan H. Adler | 11.30.2025 1:20 PM
Over at NRO, Andrew McCarthy largely agrees with Jack Goldsmith's conclusion that the the reported attack on survivors of a drug boat strike was unlawful. According to McCarthy, "If this happened as described in the Post report, it was, at best, a war crime under federal law." He writes further:
even if we stipulate arguendo that the administration has a colorable claim that our forces are in an armed conflict with non-state actors (i.e., suspected members of drug cartels that the administration has dubiously designated as foreign terrorist organizations (FTOs)), the laws of war do not permit the killing of combatants who have been rendered hors de combat (out of the fighting) — including by shipwreck.
To reiterate, I don't accept that the ship operators are enemy combatants — even if one overlooks that the administration has not proven that they are drug traffickers or members of designated FTOs. There is no armed conflict. They may be criminals (if it is proven that they are importing illegal narcotics), but they are not combatants.
My point, nevertheless, is that even if you buy the untenable claim that they are combatants, it is a war crime to intentionally kill combatants who have been rendered unable to fight. It is not permitted, under the laws and customs of honorable warfare, to order that no quarter be given — to apply lethal force to those who surrender or who are injured, shipwrecked, or otherwise unable to fight.
A key point here is that McCarthy is not relying upon UN-affiliated entites nor unincorporated international law for his conclusion. Rather, he is resting his contentions on federal law (including those portions of the laws of war or international law that have been formally ratified by the Senate).
The laws of war, as they are incorporated into federal law, make lethal force unlawful if it is used under certain circumstances. Hence, it cannot be a defense to say, as Hegseth does, that one has killed because one's objective was "lethal, kinetic strikes."
And, it is worth noting, that federal law imposes the most severe penalties on war crimes.
McCarthy also highlights the fundamental irrationality of the Administration's policy, particularly given the constraints of federal law
. . . if an arguable combatant has been rendered hors de combat, targeting him with lethal force cannot be rationalized, as Bradley is said to have done, by theorizing that it was possible, at some future point, that the combatant could get help and be able to contribute once again to enemy operations. . . .
if the Post report is accurate — Hegseth and his commanders changed the protocols after the September 2 attack, "to emphasize rescuing suspected smugglers if they survived strikes." This is why two survivors in a subsequent strike (on October 16) were captured and then repatriated to their native countries (Colombia and Ecuador).
This was a ludicrous outcome: under prior policy, the boat would have been interdicted, the drugs seized, and the operators transferred to federal court for prosecution and hefty sentences. Under the Trump administration's policy, if the operators survive our missiles, they get to go back home and rejoin the drug trade. But put that aside. The point is that, if the administration's intent to apply lethal force were a defense to killing shipwrecked suspected drug traffickers, the policy wouldn't have been changed. It was changed because Hegseth knows he can't justify killing boat operators who survive attacks; and he sends them home rather than detaining them as enemy combatants because, similarly, there is no actual armed conflict, so there is no basis to detain them as enemy combatants.
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Here's an illegal order that the military followed.
As far as I'm concerned, all of these strikes have been extrajudicial killings of noncombatants and illegal, but if there are no consequences for something as cut and dry as this particular incident, then we have truly lost our way.
As they said above "even if you buy the untenable claim that they are combatants" which frankly I don't and neither do millions of Americans who are stunned by this new wannabe Christo-fascist executives' actions. The courts will eventually rule these were extra-judicial killings and that the executive can't just label anyone they want a "foreign terrorist organization". With that said, i will take time for it to work its way through the courts so they might do a lot of damage before they are finally reigned in. And let's face it, I'm certain many MAGAites wish they could designate the Democratic Party a "foreign terrorist organization" so they can just start launching missiles at all those who refuse to accept Trump as their new King and the MAGAites beneath him as their white Christian masters. These extra-judicial killings aren't a bug to the MAGAites, it's a feature. They want it, they love it, they want more of it, "death to the pagans!... er, I mean terrorists!".
I'm thrilled that maga accepts the bar now set for the future extermination of terrorists, both foreign and domestic ...
Certainly seems like it.
Cruelty is an integral aspect of fascism. MAGAs are either full-blown fascists or fascist fellow-travelers. So for MAGAs, cruelty is indeed a feature.
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gee, there sure have been a lot of war criminals in republican administrations over the last 50+ years ...
Republicans initiated all three major military involvements in the past half-century as well. Only one worked out – the Gulf War. The other two not so much, with Iraq actually being invaded on false pretenses.
There's a lesson there.
maga vets hold the same status as criminals awaiting prosecution in my mind.
Meh...people who have never served that talk shit about veterans are nothing but pieces of shit in my mind.
It's hard to count all of Trump's crimes.
Kick them while they’re down, until they’re dead. How brave and noble. The truly sad part is how drug cartels come up with the drivers for these drug boats - by kidnapping peoples’ family members and executing them if the driver refuses to do what they say. It’s a death sentence whether they do it or not, thanks to this incompetent administration.
POS/POTUS has 3 weeks to create a major media distraction away from the release date of the epstein files, or what's left of them.
I agree with what you said,
But I'm still wondering-- have all these boats actually been smuggling drugs? I really don't know-- haven't seen any convincing evidence either way.
At what point do get to slash the throat of somebody who just looks at me wrong? I'll just use the Trump defense in court.
The Senate and House Armed Services Committees have announced bipartisan investigations. Even the Republicans are concerned about Trump regime war crimes/murders. Hegseth has to go.
Meanwhile, Trump is pardoning the ex-President of Honduras who was convicted of receiving millions of dollars in bribes for participating in the trafficking of hundreds of thousands of pounds of cocaine into the U.S. He received a 45 years sentence, but Trump is letting him out after serving only 1 year. The guy is quoted as allegedly saying: "Let's stuff the drugs right up the nose of the gringos." How much $$$ is Trump getting for this pardon?
He should have never been nominated, let alone confirmed.
We executed several Japanese officers after WW2 for exactly this kind of war crime.
He should NEVER have been nominated or confirmed. He's a complete disgrace, just like his boss.
In addition to Japanese officers, I believe that German officers were also executed for war crimes like this.
Yeah, with the topic being the killing of survivors at sea I mostly think of the war in the Pacific, but now that you mention it, some German U-boats did it as well.
They did, and their senior officers were, deservedly, executed for war crimes.
Nuremburg, too.
Up the noses-- yep, thaat's generallt the way people do Cocaine!
Has Trump ever done anything that was actually legal?
Can you point out anything he has done that was illegal?
Most activist left wing federal judges that have tried to stop him have been overridden by the Appeals courts or the Supreme Court.
Interesting that we haven't seen a single conservative on here defending this. I think even they know this will not end well for the administration.
The White House has already confirmed the second strike to kill the survivors, so maybe they figure this one is impossible to defend.
They're just waiting to get the script. It's undergoing a second draft so it's a little bit delayed. The bots are waiting to be programmed, too. Don't worry. It's inevitable they'll be told something ridiculous to say like: "But Biden..."
It's inevitable they'll be told something ridiculous to say like: "But Biden..."
Or “why do you want our children poisoned with fentanyl?”
For sure. It's in the script: Democrats want our children poisoned with fentanyl.
... the fentanyl smuggled into the US by the same folks trump has undoubtedly pardoned.
As long as the Don gets a taste it’s all good.
That script is easily countered with Trump's pardon of the Honduran ex-President this week. How long after Trump's gone will we start seeing books talking about Trump's mental decline?
Judging by post #5 it looks like the script is in:
Yeah. Keggy, et al threw the Admiral under the bus
Or much more interesting all the crimes he committed
there's already a few to choose from ...
from the New York Times no less… blew up the whole little narrative they’d been dancing to…
Nice cherry picking. Out of that whole article the only part you chose to report is the paragraphs that repeat what possible 5 anonymous people claim, and ignore the point of the article that shows that the US is engaging in warfare with civilians. Plus their claims were that Hegseth did not issue an additional order at the time of the strike to kill the survivors. They did not address his earlier verbal order about killing them all.
We're firing missiles at unarmed boats.
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[✘] and ignore the point of the article that shows that the US is engaging in warfare with civilians
Hope you didn't hurt yourself moving the goalposts so far. The whole Hegseth ordered a second strike turned out to be lie. Whoops!
But I'll take you seriously when you point out where you called Obama a war criminal for attacking unarmed civilians and trying to kill them, since that's your new standard.
Once again, nobody is claiming that, and if you'd actually read my comment you'd know it. I even bolded and underlined it for god's sake!!!
Hegseth's original order was for no survivors, to follow that order required the 2nd strike.
Once again, nobody is claiming that,
lol.
he's sounds confident that evidence of the strike has been destroyed ...
Yup, and that Trump's name will not appear anywhere in the released Epstein files.
I'll take "obvious falsehoods that republicans are bending over backwards for", for $500 Alex.
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Hegseth is a traitor. He should be tried for war crimes and if found guilty? Executed.
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I think he's a murderer who has committed war crimes, but I wouldn't call his actions treasonous.
Agreed.
Let the judge and jury decide. There are many convicted of war crimes who are just rotting in prison.
And he definitely SHOULD NOT be tortured, that is also a war crime. An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.
But I wouldn't be opposed to hotel Gitmo for him.
I spent my career getting people what they want, and most maga republicans approve of torture ...
The hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds, Obama said, and i Quote! "all Drone strikes outside of Pakistan are personally authorized by me"
Obama ordered drone strikes on wedding parties and then would wait until first responders showed up and then strike them again, to kill the wounded and first responders. [deleted][✘]
TDS does seem to be a thing, but it afflicts the hardcore MAGA crowd. Being wholeheartedly on the side of a deranged tyrant is somethin that, in itself, requires derangement.
On that note, you post is complete bullshit. Your so-called "quote" doesn't even seem to exist, and the strike I think you're talking about (with multiple bombs) happened under Bush on July 6, 2008. Another happened under Bush on November 7, 2008, but I think only one bomb was involved that time (not positive, though). Regardless, there were no intentional hits on first responders.
My cursory search turned up no record at all of a U.S. airstrike on Afghan weddings during the Obama administration, but three under Bush (the third was in 2002).
Talk about derangement.
it's the typical "but what about" deflection from present reality, and another weak attempt to justify the indefensible ...
facts have about as much bearing as the law to maga republicans ...
More articles on double tap strikes? According to the time stamp you hadn't provided any yet, and the two you provide here don't mention them. Bravo.
Setting double taps aside (one of the links in your post below states they aren't a war crime in and of themselves), the issue is no-quarter strikes, and the NYT article you provided (which I had to sign up for a free trial to read) actually says the Obama administration vigilantly worked to avoid policy of that nature. Bravo again.
This contradicts other articles I've read today about various strikes, which stated that Obama did not specifically authorize them, but that they were authorized by others according to policy. Here's an example of what I mean, from an AI search return pertaining to one of the strikes:
Just FYI
After a more thorough search, were you referring to the 2013 Radda airstrike in Yemen?
If so...
funny how they get things wrong so often
I'm good with maga thinking that they're beyond the reach of US law outside of america ...
You think there was only one FFS? How about a little news from the same people you get you information on what Isreal is doing?
Trump’s boat bombings: How the US has long used ‘double-tap’ strikes | Conflict News | Al Jazeera
or maybe
US Drones Bomb Civilian Rescuers - Business Insider
What's hilarious is that the article you link says it has several examples and they're from:
2025: Yemen (under Trump)
2017: Yemen (under Trump)
2012: Pakistan (under Obama)
2003: Iraq (under Bush)
2004: Iraq (under Bush)
So out of all the examples in even your own articles, that also point out that none of these were admitted "double tap" attacks but were called such by those effected by the attacks, 4 out of 5 were Republican administration, 2 from the very administration you're trying to defend and blame Obama. Your attempt to defend this really is precious though. Silly, awkward, hilarious, but precious like a newborn giraffe trying to find its footing.
Whatever that means.
Anyway, your first article points out that double taps aren't explicitly a war crime (I imagine because a second strike can have justifiable reasons, such as the first strike failing to destroy the target). Maybe you didn't read that part.
This isn't so much about double taps as it is about whether Hegseth ordered a no-quarter strike. The WaPo story said he did. As far as I know, Admiral Bradley hasn't spoken publicly about it, but he's supposed to brief the House and Senate Armed Services Committees on Thursday.
cool, let's see what kind of american he is ...
Keep defending a piece of shit war criminal.
Yes, we see that, but what else can you do?
And by the way, all your link really states is a Harvard Law professors hope that Obama would stop doing what Bush had been doing for 6 years which he believed made the US "war criminals". Trying to paint Obama as some aberrant out of control war criminal is just pure stupidity. The only people who believe that nonsense are those who were born yesterday and those who have had their heads stuffed up Trumps ass for the last decade.
Kristi Noem said this to Trump today in the cabinet meeting "You've saved hundreds of millions of live with the cocaine you've blown up in the Carribean"
She was going to say "a few thousand" but knew Trump would bitch at her if she said that.
I have no idea what you think you showed in your link there. I read it twice thinking I must have missed something.
It is a 2010 letter to the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy from Bush's last Attorney General expressing his concern that Obama was going to be too nice to the bad guys.
Pretty much the opposite of what I think you were going for.
We already know that as an experienced admiral he either followed a blatantly illegal order, or gave one himself.
I mean, get this...
DOD's Own Manual Uses Firing on Shipwrecked People as an EXAMPLE of an Illegal Order
18.3.2.1 Clearly Illegal Orders to Commit Law of War Violations. The requirement to refuse to comply with orders to commit law of war violations applies to orders to perform conduct that is clearly illegal or orders that the subordinate knows, in fact, are illegal. For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal. [emphasis added]
Firing on the shipwrecked is explicitly shown as an example!
I'd say at best his career is over, and maybe a lot worse.
Obama's orders were to shoot at presumed "enemy combattants". Unless you can find an instance of his ordering the killing of defensless survivors of a previous attack, you have no equivalent.
This is how "fascist logic" works: whatever the morally/ethically worst you have ever done may be, we are thereby legitimated in doing even worse.
Fascist logic ensures a race to hell.
(Obama's original orders were of dubious legality. Sadly, that debate has been null for quite a while, now.)
UN-affiliated entities? There are UN members who have carried out war crimes and they turn a blind fkng eye. The UN is a fkng joke.
The UN is a fkng joke.
But a sitting US POTUS pardoning one of the most prolific drug dealers in history while simultaneously murdering unknown drivers of little boats suspected of carrying drugs is not a joke. Got it. You guys are such a mess.
the people that owned the boat forgot to purchase a "special import license" from the oval office ...
it's amazing the lengths some powerful millionaires and billionaires will go to stay off the sex with trafficked underage girls list ...
I'll take "Unrelated shit you want to cry about" for $100 Alex.
Do you know what a "go fast" is ad what they look like?
Maybe you can show a fishing boat using one of these "go fasts" s/.....
Any negative comment about how unqualified this disastrous administration is on any given topic is “unrelated” for maga cultists.
Of course I know what they look like - I see them getting blown up all day long on the news now. Sometimes twice, if a couple of the humans on board weren’t thoroughly blown apart yet. Now that is a crime worthy of execution. Normal people call it murder.
I have seen go fasts up close doing drug ops with the Navy in the Caribbean.
What is being blown away is go fasts used to run drugs. What fishing boat on a standard fisherman's boat from that area has that many motors on the back? They are not for trolling. They are there for speed.
Now...my question again...
Can you show a fishing boat using one of these go fasts?
Can you show me where in the law it says that suspected drug trafficking is punishable by immediate execution with no trial, no defense?
Conservatives are trying to defend the indefensible. I have no love for drug cartels and drug smugglers, but the reality is that those running the drugs are often no better than slaves so all this does is kill dozens of people who were forced to work for the cartel, often with their families being held hostage or under threat of violence if they don't comply.
I know conservatives are dense, but do they actually believe they are taking out ANYONE in Cartel leadership with these illegal attacks? This does nothing to stop the flow of drugs into the US because the ONLY thing that will ever do that is to eliminate the demand for the drugs.
Here is a list of the top 10 States with Drug Overdose Deaths:
Top 10 US States with Drug Overdose Deaths [Updated 2024]
The majority just happen to be Red States. Funny how the ones screaming about the problem are the ones creating the problem. There would be no drug boats to blow up in the Caribbean if no one here was buying the drugs.
why can't GI joke display all the illegal drug evidence that's being transported?
now you just have to prove it. Just remember, your hurt feelings aren't proof of anything.
Maybe because it is at the bottom of the ocean.
"GI joke "
Maybe you need to take a good look at the last SecDef.
DJT and his clown car administration prove it all by themselves every minute of every day.
That's opinion. Not proof.
Trump has a dismal 36% approval rating. No “proof” is required when it’s that fucking obvious. It’s too bad you are blind to it.
according to PEDO/POTUS, +0.03% is a mandate ...
If you have nothing just say it. No shame in finally being honest.
Since when are criminal charges and trials important?
If the Mad King says "Kill them!" then we must obey...
maybe you should review your oath of service ...
The deflection around here is worse than a game of Dodgeball
... another game where the weak minded are easily humiliated.
It's Pete's "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" moment. What a fucking dumb ass.
What was the excuse when Obama droned children?
The same excuse as when Bush did it. But seriously, is that all you have? Stupid wildly inaccurate what-about-ism's from over a decade ago? Try defending his actions with actual thought and logic. Oh, that's right, that would be impossible so the only thing you can use to defend your master is deflection and distraction. Bravo.
Says the person who posted this...
"actual thought and logic."
who also posted this..
"I think he's a murderer who has committed war crimes"
When your argument had already been debunked and the far left NYT told you you are wrong, but still decided to spew left wing nonsense......with zero proof.
"
I also enjoy the outrage at the idea that should be be able to a hold a consistent position based for over a decade. Their incredulity at the idea of having principles that don't change based on who is President never gets old to see.
Wasn't that when
If I remember correctly, we were never at war with Yemen, but there we were dropping ordinance like it was Bala Murghab Afghanistan.
BTW, you aren't supposed to talk about a Democrat POTUS doing what they are accusing the current POTUS of doing. It makes some people cry.
Well there has been a psychologist who has come out and admitted that about 75 percent of people he has treated are afflicted with TDS. Of course, he was met with death threats.
that does not surprise me in the least.
Trump Derangement Syndrome is real — these hysterical threats prove it | New York Post
From your link:
That sums it up pretty well and it explains fire bombing an ICE facility.
One wrong justifies another wrong???????????????????
And where did I even hint to that?
You pretty much said, "If Obama did it, then Trump is allowed to do it!"
What I did was ask a question and pointed out a fact. Nowhere did I say what you "think" I said. Quit trying to find something that isn't there.
Whatever
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That only happens if you care about what they have to say. I'm all out of "Giveashit" pills.
Well, it far exceeds the lack of skills of being a keyboard warrior.
Ask the Dems/Libs - their standing operating procedures.
Hey hey hey...
Those guys can insult, meme and play video games all at the same time from those keyboards.
And, ya know what's really a pisser? 18 - 21 year old "kids" had more maturity and "give-a-shit" in 'Nam than do the majority of "our" congressional members and population.
Asking/telling today's younger generations to grow a set - they would ask you "set of what" - 'cause they have no balls.
... says a person that repeatedly votes for NA political oppressors.