Are we still waiting for the "facts" to come in?

maga hates liars?

so much history to revise before the midterms and so little time ...

maga hates liars?

Not exactly

Trump paid an odd tribute to Lindsay Graham today at his funeral service - "he never met a war he didnt like. "

Are we still waiting for the "facts" to come in?

Well, you didn't supply anything but irrelevant horse shit so I'd say yeah, I'll wait for the facts. Why the fuck are some so desperate to pin something on Fauci anyway? Oh, that's right, Trump was President during Covid and downplayed it to the public while acknowledging it was deadly in private and then half a million Americans died so I guess the Trump turd crisis management team is hard at work mining turd nuggets to try and obfuscate their dear Leaders incompetence.

Guy who believed his own public relations.  

he’s lucky Biden pardoned him.

The pardon has a specific date range in it and does not cover any future lying to congress. We'll have to wait to see how tomorrows hearing goes. 

But the diary coming out now does illustrate why so many people distrust the institutions in Washington. It won't stop the highly partisan from defending "their" guy however.

he’s lucky Biden pardoned him.

But did he?

Wouldn't the more appropriate label be narcissist liar?  Or does that strike too close to home?

Anthony Fauci's crime is acting as an enabler.  Fauci prostituted his credentials and bad science to obtain political objectives.  The story doesn't really end until we know who climbed in bed with him.

In the 1980s, he was wrong about heterosexual AIDS. In the early 2000s, he was wrong about the avian flu. Same with the Zika virus. Not only did he overestimate death rates from virtually every virus of the last 30 years, he often overestimated fatalities by five to 10 times the actual numbers. A palm reader would have been more accurate. 

townhall

Seems Fauci's record is as fictional as what most of the left pushes here.

Seems Fauci's record is as fictional as what most of the left pushes here.

A true expert.  I'm surprised Joe Biden didn't give Fauci the Presidential Medal & Pardon gift set.

Good point.  I guess the handlers didn't want to put one shitbag over the rest.

Anthony Fauci's crime is acting as an enabler.  Fauci prostituted his credentials and bad science to obtain political objectives.  The story doesn't really end until we know who climbed in bed with him.

Flaming hot opinion Nerm?

A lot of words but nothing new and no clear wrongdoing by Fauci.    Now going back to 2020, beating on the Fauci horse again, all to deflect from the worst PotUS in US history.

ChatGPT fact checking your bullshit and providing you a claim that you could actually make (poor oversight and overly categorical testimony):

Overall verdict: Mostly misleading, with several unsupported accusations and one clearly false claim

The paragraph starts from several real facts—NIH money reached the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Fauci supported initial COVID restrictions, he clashed with Trump, and Biden pardoned him—but then adds claims of illegality, conspiracy, partisan intent, perjury and quid pro quo that the established evidence does not prove.

Claim-by-claim

“Fauci was a bureaucratic genius who solidified his power over the years.”
This is opinion rather than a verifiable claim. Fauci unquestionably became highly influential: he directed NIAID from 1984 through 2022 and advised multiple presidential administrations. Whether that reflects bureaucratic maneuvering, professional competence or both is interpretive. ( NIAID )

“He found a way to partially fund the gain-of-function research going on at the Wuhan lab.”
Partly true, but loaded and overstated. NIAID awarded a grant to EcoHealth Alliance, which sent $598,611 to the Wuhan Institute of Virology between 2014 and 2019. The research involved creating and testing chimeric bat coronaviruses. In the broad scientific sense—altering an organism so that it acquires a function—some experts and the current Trump administration characterize this as gain-of-function research. ( OIG HHS )

NIH, however, determined that the proposed work did not fall within the narrower federal category covered by the 2014 funding pause because it was not reasonably anticipated to enhance pathogenicity or transmissibility in humans. The HHS inspector general did not resolve that scientific classification, but found serious deficiencies in NIH’s and EcoHealth’s monitoring and recommended closer review of NIAID’s decision-making. ( OIG HHS )

Thus, federal money unquestionably reached WIV and supported controversial coronavirus experiments . What has not been established is that Fauci personally devised a scheme to circumvent the rules.

“Such research is illegal in the United States.”
False. Gain-of-function research was not categorically illegal. From 2014 to 2017, the government imposed a funding pause on a limited subset of federally funded experiments involving influenza, MERS and SARS viruses. The pause was subsequently replaced by a review framework under which qualifying research could be approved with additional oversight. ( GAO )

President Trump’s May 2025 executive order ended federal funding for specified “dangerous gain-of-function” research and ordered stronger controls, but even that was a federal funding and regulatory action—not a declaration that every form of gain-of-function experimentation constituted a criminal offense. ( The White House )

“He and his allies at NIH, along with the left-wing media, covered it up.”
Unsupported as written. There is substantial evidence of deficient oversight and inadequate transparency. The HHS inspector general found that NIH and EcoHealth failed to monitor the grants effectively, that a progress report was submitted approximately two years late and that NIH could not obtain all of the underlying WIV records. ( OIG HHS )

There are also serious new developments: in April 2026, the Justice Department indicted former Fauci adviser David Morens, alleging a scheme to conceal federal records concerning COVID research grants. That indictment concerns Morens, not Fauci, and its allegations have not yet been proved at trial. It does not establish a coordinated conspiracy involving Fauci, NIH generally and vaguely defined “left-wing media.” ( Department of Justice )

“He lied to Congress about it.”
Disputed and not established as a legal fact. Fauci testified in 2021 that NIH had not funded gain-of-function research at WIV. In later testimony, he explained that he was using the operative federal regulatory definition—not the much broader ordinary scientific meaning of “gain of function.” ( House Oversight Committee )

That categorical wording was, at minimum, too sweeping and potentially misleading , because NIH money did support experiments that gave engineered viruses altered characteristics. Critics reasonably argue that Fauci used an exceptionally narrow definition to deny something that was true under the broader definition. But saying he committed perjury requires proof that his statement was materially false under the intended definition and that he knowingly made it falsely. No court has made that determination.

A June 2026 ODNI release now makes a separate allegation that Fauci gave false testimony in 2024 concerning his discussions with intelligence officials. That remains an executive-branch accusation, not an adjudicated finding. Fauci is scheduled to testify before the Senate Homeland Security Committee on July 29, 2026 . ( DNI )

“Democrats are seldom held accountable” and “the thing Democrats hate most is Donald Trump.”
These are partisan generalizations, not fact-checkable propositions. They provide no evidence regarding Fauci’s conduct. Fauci was also a career official who served Republican and Democratic presidents; he was directing NIAID throughout Trump’s presidency. ( NIAID )

“He gradually positioned himself against Trump as he recommended shutting down schools and businesses.”
Partly factual but speculative about motive. Fauci supported strong initial distancing measures, including temporary school and business closures, and later clashed openly with Trump over reopening and the seriousness of the pandemic. Fauci subsequently said that initial closures were justified but that keeping schools closed for prolonged periods was a mistake. ( CBS News )

However, Trump himself announced the administration’s “15 Days to Slow the Spread” guidelines, which recommended schooling and working from home. Governors, mayors and school districts—not Fauci personally—issued the enforceable closure orders. Therefore, presenting the restrictions solely as Fauci’s partisan maneuver against Trump distorts the governmental record. ( Trump White House Archives )

“After crawling up Joe Biden’s ass, he got a pardon for all those things that he and his defenders denied.”
The first part is an insult and an unsupported assertion of a corrupt exchange. Fauci did become Biden’s chief medical adviser, but there is no established evidence that he cultivated Biden in exchange for a pardon.

The pardon itself is real and extraordinarily broad. It covers any federal offenses Fauci may have committed from January 1, 2014, through January 20, 2025, arising from his work at NIAID, on the COVID task forces or as presidential medical adviser. It does not name particular offenses. ( Department of Justice )

A pardon can protect someone from prosecution for covered, uncharged conduct, but it is not evidence that such conduct actually occurred . Biden expressly stated that the pardon should not be interpreted as an acknowledgment of wrongdoing and said he issued it because he anticipated politically motivated investigations under Trump. ( The American Presidency Project )

A factually defensible version

Fauci became one of the federal government’s most influential career officials during his decades directing NIAID. Under his leadership, NIAID awarded money to EcoHealth Alliance, which sent approximately $599,000 to the Wuhan Institute of Virology for controversial bat-coronavirus research. Some experts describe the experiments as gain-of-function research under the term’s broad scientific meaning, although NIH determined that they did not fall within the narrower federal regulatory category then requiring special review.

Subsequent investigations found serious failures in NIH’s and EcoHealth’s monitoring, reporting and transparency. Fauci’s categorical testimony that NIH had not funded gain-of-function research in Wuhan can reasonably be criticized as overly broad and potentially misleading, although it has not been legally established that he knowingly lied to Congress.

Fauci supported the initial COVID shutdown measures and later clashed with Trump, but the claim that he engineered the restrictions as a partisan operation against Trump is speculative. Biden ultimately granted Fauci an unusually broad preemptive pardon covering federal offenses potentially connected with his government service. The pardon warrants scrutiny, but it does not itself prove guilt or establish the existence of a coordinated Fauci-NIH-media cover-up.

The strongest legitimate criticism is therefore not that every accusation in the original paragraph has been proved. It is that federal money reached WIV, NIH’s classification and oversight were seriously questionable, Fauci’s public denials were excessively categorical, and Biden’s sweeping pardon predictably deepened public suspicion.

• The Wall Street Journal

• The Guardian

Now going back to 2020, beating on the Fauci horse again, a

The playbook never  falls out of use.  Progressives will make all sort of erroneous claims defending their heroes, call legitimate criticisms " conspiracies" etc and then when the evidence they were wrong becomes too much say "Move on, who cares about the thing I spent years lying about now" 

But saying he committed perjury requires proof that his statement was materially false under the intended definition and that he knowingly made it falsely. No court has made that determination.

A June 2026 ODNI release now makes a separate allegation that Fauci gave false testimony in 2024 concerning his discussions with intelligence officials. That remains an executive-branch accusation, not an adjudicated finding. Fauci is scheduled to testify before the Senate Homeland Security Committee on July 29, 2

And he accepted a pardon which is an admission of guilt so the only reasonable conclusion is that he did perjure himself.

And you offer nothing but bullshit.   There is no evidence to cite.   You are putting forth facts that have been known for years and claiming evidence of wrongdoing.

The perjury allegation is weak at best.   But even if Fauci had committed perjury, this illustrates yet again how people like you will ignore all the blatant, large-scale wrongdoings of Trump and deflect to insignificant-by-comparison allegations of wrongdoing by others ... even if one has to go back 6 years and beat on a dead horse.

You think people cannot see this dishonest crap you are pushing?

And he accepted a pardon which is an admission of guilt

I wonder if you will take this stance when Trump pardons himself and his entire administration. 

The playbook never  falls out of use

As worn and tattered with all it's misspellings, wrong information and unfounded opinion, you'd think they would trade up.

And he accepted a pardon which is an admission of guilt so the only reasonable conclusion is that he did perjure himself.

So all the J6 people that got pardoned by trump admitted they were guilty?

Yes. That comes with taking a pardon.

So yes, your point that  Fauci and the J6 rioters are the same is correct.  

So yes, your point that  Fauci and the J6 rioters are the same is correct.  

LOL!

A lot of words but nothing new and no clear wrongdoing by Fauci.    Now going back to 2020, beating on the Fauci horse again, all to deflect from the worst PotUS in US history.

That worst POTUS in history made rapid deployment of an mRNA COVID vaccine possible.  Joe Biden was handed the keys to the Cadillac and he still fucked it up.

I agree Anthony Fauci is a political dead horse.  But he still hasn't been held accountable for damaging the economy.  And he certainly didn't do a damned thing to assist in improving the clinical response to the pandemic.  

The only things Anthony Fauci achieved was shutting down schools, businesses, & social gatherings, requiring 6 ft of separation (based on his opinion rather than science), and overstating the effectiveness of masks.  Anthony Fauci is the poster child for authoritarian experts.

I was very unhappy when churches were shut down during the height of the pandemic ...

That worst POTUS in history made rapid deployment of an mRNA COVID vaccine possible. 

Something that any PotUS would have done.

Al Capone did some goods thing too like running a soup kitchen during the Great Depression.   No doubt we could find good moves by even the worst human beings.   That does not in any way change the collective bad by these individuals.   99% of Trump's words and deeds are done to benefit Trump.

Note that this same PotUS did this after trying to convince everyone that COVID-19 was no big deal.   He wasted months with this bullshit and then finally gave in to reality.

The only things Anthony Fauci achieved ...

You dismiss Fauci's decades of service — equating it with nothing.   Your comment has no credibility with me.

And he certainly didn't do a damned thing to assist in improving the clinical response to the pandemic.  

And in conclusion; 4 years later the Trump Administration has castrated the CDC and left it bleeding out talent and anti science drivel on the side of Rt 66.

What Has Trump Done to the CDC?

How cuts to CDC are dismantling its capacity to protect Americans’ health

Trump’s CDC Stopped Monitoring Explosive Diarrhea Parasite Before Outbreak - Newsweek

How Trump’s funding cuts slowed the CDC’s cyclosporiasis response | CNN

And in conclusion; 4 years later the Trump Administration has castrated the CDC and left it bleeding out talent and anti science drivel on the side of Rt 66.

What does that have to do with Anthony Fauci failing to assist with the clinical response to the pandemic? 

That worst POTUS in history made rapid deployment of an mRNA COVID vaccine possible

A robust worldwide pharmaceutical industry made it possible, Trump cut some of the red tape in this country.

Pfizer BioNtech was the first to market - they are an American German company who was working on mRNra for decades.

Anthony Fauci is the poster child for authoritarian experts.

He doesn't hold a candle to Trump or Hegseth

Al Capone did some goods thing too like running a soup kitchen during the Great Depression.  

And Al Capone received credit for doing those things.  

Note that this same PotUS did this after trying to convince everyone that COVID-19 was no big deal.   He wasted months with this bullshit and then finally gave in to reality.

Yeah, Donald Trump is a reprehensible human being with few, if any, redeeming qualities.  Trump is a low intellect grifter who is his own biggest fan.  Trump has fucked up just about everything.

But President Trump really has earned credit for rapidly deploying an mRNA vaccine for COVID.  If the vaccine saves lives then Trump deserves credit for contributing to saving lives.  Not any POTUS could have done that because they would have been stuck in institutional process and would have listened to the experts, like Fauci, advising that a vaccine couldn't be deployed in 1 year.  Hillary Clinton would probably have gotten bogged down in expert debates and bureaucratic inertia that would have delayed deploying a vaccine by 1 to 3 years.

What does that have to do with Anthony Fauci failing to assist with the clinical response to the pandemic?

Someone has to be in charge.  It's that simple.  He did things out of caution that turned out to be not neccessary.

and still a million died.

I wore the mask, stood on the foot prints when  in line and did not ever consider it to be "unnecessary suffering".

It was prudent in the face of an unknown enemy that killed 1 million Americans, a few very well known to me.

I bear no ill will to Fauci based on his politics or his caution or his repeating Trump nonsense to keep his job.

And Al Capone received credit for doing those things.  

And Trump got credit for what he did.

But President Trump really has earned credit for rapidly deploying an mRNA vaccine for COVID. 

He got credit.   What, do you think he did not get credit for one of his rare accomplishments?   What are you arguing about??

Not any POTUS could have done that because they would have been stuck in institutional process and would have listened to the experts, like Fauci, advising that a vaccine couldn't be deployed in 1 year. 

Hardly.   We were in an emergency situation.   Now you are pushing it — trying to give Trump more credit than he deserves.   He did not develop the vaccines personally.   He provided funding, reduced red-tape barriers and basically got the government out of the way of science.  Something any other PotUS would do in a worldwide pandemic emergency situation.

But President Trump really has earned credit for rapidly deploying an mRNA vaccine for COVID.  If the vaccine saves lives then Trump deserves credit for contributing to saving lives.  Not any POTUS could have done that because they would have been stuck in institutional process and would have listened to the experts, like Fauci, advising that a vaccine couldn't be deployed in 1 year.  Hillary Clinton would probably have gotten bogged down in expert debates and bureaucratic inertia that would have delayed deploying a vaccine by 1 to 3 years.

That's too many maybe's and if's to be plausible about any other POTUS or what any other POTUS might have done.

I believe in Accademia that kind of postulating is worthless fiction/opinon. 

maga doesn't believe the vaccines were in development a minimum of 6 months before trump even publicly acknowledged the pandemic. wait until school starts and rfk jr's incompetence with handling the measles gets kick started. 

gee, I wonder what would cause foreign countries that supply americans food, to ship it to us contaminated with fecal matter ... /s

Hardly.   We were in an emergency situation.   Now you are pushing it — trying to give Trump more credit than he deserves.   He did not develop the vaccines personally.   He provided funding, reduced red-tape barriers and basically got the government out of the way of science.  Something any other PotUS would do in a worldwide pandemic emergency situation.

Then why were medical experts advising following traditional sequential 3 phase trials (that require 5 to 10 years) that was the normative bureaucratic process for FDA approval?  Why were medical experts voicing doubts about deploying mRNA vaccines (for the first time) at population scale without additional testing beyond the the traditional 3 phase trials?

Why did Kamala Harris and Joe Biden voice skepticism about the vaccines despite the endorsements by Dr. Anthony Fauci?  Why did Gov. Andrew Cuomo announce New York would set up its own review panel before distributing the vaccine?  

Hillary Clinton adopted a stance of relying on the advice of career scientists.  But those career scientists were voicing concerns over the speed of concurrent testing, shortened review windows, establishing and deploying storage before testing had been completed, and lack of general trials on mRNA vaccines (even after more than a decade of research).

The medical experts were advising a slower process for development and testing the vaccines.  And prominent Democrats were voicing concerns about the vaccines until after the 2020 election.  

Al Capone provided and profited by providing something most people wanted and the government tried to take away

What is your point?

Trump only acted on COVID-19 because his hand was forced by a global pandemic.

In both cases the individual did good, regardless of the reasons.

The point, however, was that someone doing good does not erase all the bad.   Trump did good in removing barriers to the development of vaccines, but that does not erase his collective wrongdoing.

Then why were medical experts advising following traditional sequential 3 phase trials (that require 5 to 10 years) that was the normative bureaucratic process for FDA approval? 

You presume that in the same circumstances, another PotUS would have NOT worked to produce a vaccine quickly.

In that you give Trump undeserved credit.

You presume that in the same circumstances, another PotUS would have NOT worked to produce a vaccine quickly. In that you give Trump undeserved credit.

And you presume those who wanted to be that other POTUS were lying when they explicitly stated they would follow the advice of experts (who were arguing for a slower, traditional bureaucratic process). 

Had Hillary Clinton won in 2016 she would have been the President saddled with the pandemic.  Are you really that certain Clinton would have adopted a 'Warp Speed' policy of development, testing, and deployment?  What is it about Clinton's past performance that justifies such a presumption?

And you presume those who wanted to be that other POTUS were lying when they explicitly stated they would follow the advice of experts (who were arguing for a slower, traditional bureaucratic process). 

I do not presume anything other than the obvious likelihood that a PotUS faced with a pandemic would take actions to help develop a vaccine (among other things).   Not much of a stretch.

Are you really that certain Clinton would have adopted a 'Warp Speed' policy of development, testing, and deployment? 

I am confident that Clinton (or any other rational human being) would have taken action to address the pandemic.   Emergencies generally trigger protocol-breaking actions.

He doesn't hold a candle to Trump or Hegseth

So now Trump and Hegseth are experts?

Haven't you heard it from the President's own lips? he has the best brain and only hires the best people, right?

/S

He really looks more like a toad....

That is because he is taking a crap on the CotUS.

Looks like a whole lot of morons contracted a serious case of Fauci Derangement Syndrome. It is amusing how desperate these morons are to try and get other gullible morons to believe the 2020 election was stolen and Trump handled Covid perfectly but no one with more than half a brain are buying it.

rand paul has had a hard on for fauci ever since fauci pointed out the teabag wimp couldn't get board certified as a physician ...

It's telling how many of the usual suspects have pathetically tried to deflect this away from Fauci to Trump.

This seed is trying to deflect from Trump to Fauci.

You deem Fauci a "shit bag" yet consistently defend Trump.

Your protests are impotent.

This is old information and makes a feeble case against Fauci.   And it is going back six years now to try to find something to get people to look away from the damage Trump is doing to this nation.   It is an act of futility.

[✘]

All that just to be wrong.  

It is rather sad to see all the shit Republicans are flinging and screaming at the top of their lungs just to be wrong. But I guess that's what dumb fuck morons desperately pretending to know what they're talking about do, and many times, they're even too stupid to know they're the ones that are wrong. These rightwing conservatives just sit there with this dumb look on their faces regurgitating some childish conspiracy theory they heard on rightwing media and then they look around expecting others to pat them on the back and tell them they're smart because they "know" what's really going on but then get angry and bitter when anyone with more than half a brain laughs at them. If only they had taken advantage of the public school system and embraced education instead of rejecting it for some 'Children of the Corn' rightwing evangelical cult brain washing, we would likely never have had Trump as President and a lot fewer Americans would have died of Covid and Fauci would just be one of the many names of those who rational Americans with more than half a brain know worked to keep Americans safe.

But I guess there's no stopping the mentally deficient from fantasizing about some grand conspiracy and their need to find a target for their misplaced angst, it's what those with low IQ's do when they're too stupid to understand the world around them.

It is rather sad to see all the shit Republicans are flinging and screaming at the top of their lungs just to be wrong.

I don't see where you posted anything showing they are wrong.[✘]

[✘]

[✘]

It is rather sad to see all the shit Republicans are flinging and screaming at the top of their lungs just to be wrong. But I guess that's what dumb fuck morons desperately pretending to know what they're talking about do, and many times, they're even too stupid to know they're the ones that are wrong. These rightwing conservatives just sit there with this dumb look on their faces regurgitating some childish conspiracy theory they heard on rightwing media and then they look around expecting others to pat them on the back and tell them they're smart because they "know" what's really going on but then get angry and bitter when anyone with more than half a brain laughs at them. If only they had taken advantage of the public school system and embraced education instead of rejecting it for some 'Children of the Corn' rightwing evangelical cult brain washing, we would likely never have had Trump as President and a lot fewer Americans would have died of Covid and Fauci would just be one of the many names of those who rational Americans with more than half a brain know worked to keep Americans safe.

But I guess there's no stopping the mentally deficient from fantasizing about some grand conspiracy and their need to find a target for their misplaced angst, it's what those with low IQ's do when they're too stupid to understand the world around them.

but then get angry and bitter 

You were saying about angry and bitter?

God forbid they allow a conversation / article go on about something that ISN'T Trump.  They've done nothing BUT deflect away from the hearing in their retarded whataboutism rants.

It is amazing that any discussion that isn't about Trump is deemed to be a distraction away from Trump and it needs to have Trump injected into the conversation.  I guess that is what happens when a life is 24/7 Trump.  Must be fun at parties.

any discussion that isn't about Trump is deemed to be a distraction away from Trump and it needs to have Trump injected into the conversation.

Trump must be a worthless piece of shit then, right? 

we would likely never have had Trump as President and a lot fewer Americans would have died of Covid

From the mouths of those who . . .  -

U.S. virus death toll tops 400,000 in Trump's final hours

pbs

Biden marks 1 million deaths from COVID-19 in the United States

npr

And thinks that taking a shower with your 13 year old daughter is perfectly fine - and encouraged.

How did you get that from my comment?

Removed for context

Lmao, so true.

ou were saying about angry and bitter?

I usually refer to such things as unhinged

Anthony Fauci hearing: Doctor testifies before Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee on COVID-19 origins

nypost

Now this shit bag is pleading the 5th to all the questions 

Fauci pleads Fifth in response to all Paul's questions

Dr. Anthony Fauci pleads the Fifth Amendment

Fauci pleads Fifth in response to all Paul's questions

Why should anyone with more than half a brain care? We know the narrative is bullshit; this is nothing but an attempt to get Fauci to say something they can try to turn into a perjury charge. I mean, I heard one of the hilariously moronic Republicans claim Fauci is responsible for "millions of deaths". These people are fucking beyond stupid and have their heads shoved up a fat greasy convicted felons' ass so why should anyone give a fuck about what they're whining about?

Meanwhile...

Yeah, but to a MAGAite "Fauci looks like a nerd! Hahaha! Who cares about science and education anyway? Jesus is just going to come save us so everything will be fine for us white Christians no matter what viruses or diseases come along, am I right?" /s

Why should anyone with more than half a brain care?

You all set your hair on fire and ran in circles when somebody else did it.  Your hypocrisy is showing as you sit idly by and do nothing about Fauci doing it.  

You all set your hair on fire and ran in circles when somebody else did it.

What else can be said for utter nonsense that googly eyes doesn't say? I do think it's hilarious to see some try and use claims of hypocrisy as a defense for their own hypocrisy. Your argument is basically "So what if we think Fauci taking the 5th proves he's guilty but didn't think Trump was guilty when he did it nearly 450 times! You're the hypocrites for defending Fauci now after attacking President Trump for doing what Fauci's doing! You hypocrites!"...

What else can be said for utter nonsense that googly eyes doesn't say?

Oh look at that.....YOU did exactly as I described.

8.1.2     Dismayed Patriot     replied to    Sean Treacy   @ 8.1.1       an hour ago

And, as you put it....fucking hypocrite

Please do show where I was complaining about Trump pleading the 5th or claiming that somehow makes him guilty. I know what the 5th is and why it would be used even in Trumps case, only an idiot would make statements knowing another party is actively seeking to use their words to get them to either self-incriminate or perjure oneself.

So, you won't find any posts of me proclaiming Trumps guilt because he took the 5th nearly 450 times, that was the sensible thing to do. The closest thing I've posted was linking the news article about it, and even then I didn't claim it meant he was guilty. But it does definitively prove what massive hypocrites his crisis management team "Turd Force Four" are.

One of Trump’s lawyers, Ronald Fischetti, told The New York Times the former president answered one question, about his name, read a statement into the record in which he questioned James’ motives, then invoked the Fifth Amendment. Trump then said “same answer” to every question he was asked over several hours, Fischetti said.

As vociferous as Trump has been in defending himself in written statements and on the rally stage, legal experts said answering questions in a deposition was risky because anything he said could potentially be used against him in a parallel criminal investigation by the Manhattan district attorney. The Fifth Amendment protects

Trump testimony in New York investigation: Live updates | AP News

goose, gander, shitbag?

“I represent science” devolves to “I’m too dishonest to testify under oath”.

the damage fauci and his minions did to public health in this country is incalculable. It will likely take generations to rebuild the trust.

The Democrats refused to take part in this farce. Time to turn it off the tv. 

where is all that disgust you had about taking the  fifth?

all fauci, a man of “science”, has to do is just not lie. Whatever crimes he committed have already been pardoned.  He’s not even capable of that.

where is all that disgust you had about taking the  fifth?

Where was yours when Trump took the 5th over 400 times?

Trump invokes Fifth Amendment nearly 450 times in N.Y. AG’s civil probe of his business practices

Bunch of fucking hypocrites.

here was yours when Trump took the 5th over 400 times?

But Trump! But Trump!

I agree.  Fauci is as dishonest as Trump.  So where's your outrage? 

Bunch of fucking hypocrites.

Yes, the people who threw fits when a Republican pleaded the fifth and now say "Who cares!" when Fauci does are absolutely fucking hypocrites.  

The same people will, of course, throw tantrums the next time a Republican pleads the fifth. 

where is all that disgust you had about taking the  fifth?

It's all selective.  Always has been.  

And other "farces" the Dems refused to attend???

Great working with them - when and if they show up.

“I’m too dishonest to testify under oath”.

He has testified under oath dozens of times. But now, they are making it clear that they seek to prosecute him. So, why would he testify? Why would anyone?

Nothing he says will ever change Rand Paul’s mind. He’s not interested in the truth if it blows up his conspiracy theories.

He has testified under oath dozens of times.

And was pardoned so he can't be prosecuted for them. 

But now, they are making it clear that they seek to prosecute him. 

All he had to do is not lie. He's been pardoned for the crimes he's already committed. He can't implicate himself for any actions he took.  How hard is for a scientist to simply not lie about what he's done?

All he had to do is not lie.

He's already done that, now some dick wads are trying to entrap him into saying something contradictory so they can scream and distract their poorly educated gullible constituents before the midterms. How is this not obvious to you?

e's already done that

Of course he didn't. That's why he accepted a pardon. 

wads are trying to entrap him into saying something contradictory

all he has to do is not lie. Saying something "contradictory" is not lying.  

And was pardoned so he can't be prosecuted for them.

He was pardoned on January 20, 2025. There was plenty of opportunity for Congress or prosecutors to go after him. They didn’t. That’s not because he was pardoned.

All he had to do is not lie

That’s not how this works.

How hard is for a scientist to simply not lie about what he's done?

Rand Paul has been accusing Fauci of lying for years. What could Fauci have possibly said to change his mind now?

He was pardoned on January 20, 2025. There was plenty of opportunity for Congress or prosecutors to go after him. They didn’t. 

we’ll, no shit. First, congress cannot prosecute him  under our system of government, the executive branch prosecutes criminals. And   Guess who controlled the DOJ before that date?

All congress can do is refer him for prosecution, which happened at least twice.  Biden’s DOJ did nothing.

That’s not how this works.

yeah, actually it is.  He was pardoned for his past crimes.  All he has to do is not lie to avoid prosecution at this point. 

and now, since the pardon removed him his legal jeopardy, he may well be held in contempt becuas he had no legal basis to assert the fifth.

Rand Paul has been accusing Fauci of lying for years

So what? rand Paul cannot prosecute him. Rand Paul is not the audience.  America is. History is.  This was his chance to vindicate himself. To explain his actions for posterity, to the extent he can.   And the man who begged for a a pardon was too much of a coward to face the music and justify himself is a consequence free environment.

all he has to do is not lie. Saying something "contradictory" is not lying.  

What makes you so certain that he lied?

And why are you so obsessed with feeble allegations against Fauci when you have appointees like Bondi and Blanche flat out lying to Congress that they will uphold the CotUS and work for the people rather than serve as the legal arm of Trump?   Or those who cannot state that Biden legitimately won the 2020 election.   The Trump circus is appalling.

The distortion of critical thinking by partisan politics has never, in my lifetime, been as acute as it is now with Trump.

This was his chance to vindicate himself.

He did so repeatedly in the past.   There is no point in defending oneself only to have Paul, et. al. exaggerate and invent allegations.   Look at what is happening right here.   There is nothing to go on other than exaggerated speculation, yet you et. al. are trying your damnedest to make Fauci look like a criminal while totally ignoring Trump (who makes Fauci look like an angel).

First, congress cannot prosecute him  under our system of government

I never said they would. I said they could “go after him.” They can refer him for prosecution or find him in contempt. They’re attempting to do one of those things now. Now. After all this time. Now. They could have done it before. But, they didn’t. Suddenly, it’s super urgent.

the executive branch prosecutes criminals. And   Guess who controlled the DOJ before that date?

Career prosecutors are the main drivers of prosecutions, not who is president or even attorney general. Obviously, that has now changed somewhat under the Trump administration. But before January 20, 2025, where was the contempt charge? Where was the referral for prosecution?

All he has to do is not lie to avoid prosecution at this point. 

I could question you about what you had for lunch yesterday and make it look like you were lying. While a perjury charge can be difficult to prosecute in criminal court, convincing a jury, or Congress, or the court of public opinion that you are lying would be easy.

he had no legal basis to assert the fifth

You concede that a perjury charge is a real threat, but you say he has no basis to remain silent? Everything he says under oath could be used against him in a perjury charge. By remaining silent, he is depriving Rand Paul of evidence to pursue that charge. He has a constitutional right to not testify against himself. I thought conservatives supported the Constitution, no?

So what? rand Paul cannot prosecute him.

But Rand Paul could have called for prosecution on a perjury charge a long time ago. Or for any other crime he thought Fauci committed.

And the man who begged for a a pardon

You have evidence that Dr. Fauci begged for a pardon?

too much of a coward to face the music and justify himself

He has testified before Congressional committees numerous times. How do you justify claiming he is a coward to face the music when he has been doing it for years?

prosecuting dr fauci is all part of the trump agenda. punish those that trump blames for his own incompetence, using loyalists in positions of power in gov't agencies that used to be operated independently in order to revise history, destroy all agencies that could pose a financial threat to he and his family now and in the future, and self aggrandizement with vanity projects and illegal attempts to alter or change the established names on others. not to mention multiple violations of the constitution, primarily the emoluments clause. 

You'd think Democrats would be the mad ones. They were the ones who parroted his lies. Everyone else saw through him relatively quickly. For years, they carried water for him when his critics were correct the whole time. And they don't care. They seem to like being used as parrots.

Fauci is who Rand Paul always thought he was. 

Even after watching it happen over and over, it still surprises me how accepting so many Democrats are of being lied to. Or maybe they've always been in on  it and they've been lying as well. Who knows? Regardless, Lenin was onto something about useful idiots. 

You'd think Democrats would be the mad ones. They were the ones who parroted his lies.

Right? Remember when he suggested a light bulb up your ass or injecting bleach was the answer? Oh wait.. 

No, it's not. (1)  Because you are making up things.   (2) Even if your made up claims were true, they aren't even in the same ballpark. You are conflating speculation and lying. They aren't  the same thing.  

Good finish from Hawley:

HAWLEY: “Yeah, well, silence is admission.” “And here’s the real thing…at the end of the day, it wasn’t just about the money, really, was it?”

“It was really about a power trip. I mean, through all of this, you wanted to be the most famous scientist in the world. You were so focused on getting every award and every drop of cash that you could, all because you wanted to be on TV.”

“You wanted to be the sun god of science.”

“You wanted to be the guy who was in charge of it all.” “You wanted to lambaste Trump.” “You wanted to make sure that nobody else stole your spotlight.”

“YOU wanted to be the GUY.”

“You had time to sit for InStyle magazine. Here’s what you were doing with your time. You could sit for InStyle magazine, but you can’t answer questions for the American people!” “You could sit for InStyle magazine, but you’re here taking the Fifth!” “You could sit for InStyle magazine and get a MILLION BUCKS in cash awards, but now the cat’s got your tongue.”

“I bet he does!”

“I’ll tell you what, here’s my conclusion from all of this.”

“This was really all about you the whole time. Somewhere along the way, you lost your way.” “You may have been a good public servant at one time, I don’t know.” “What I can tell you from reading your emails now, from looking at what you did, how you used your employees, somewhere along the line, it became all about you.” “You became a narcissist and a megalomaniac and a liar, and you’ve lied to the American people, and you’ve lied to this body!” “And you’ve disgraced your profession by doing it.” “You called yourself the most famous scientist in the world… you’ve done more to harm science than anybody in my lifetime.” “And I hope you’ll go home and write that in your diary.”

x

“Yeah, well, silence is admission.”

Then trump has admitted a LOT! LOL 

You are suggesting Trump is silent?  LOL

He is referring to the NY hearings where Trump answered Fifth Amendment then "same answer: approximately 450 times.

silence is admission

It’s not.

all because you wanted to be on TV.”

Fauci didn’t put himself in front of the cameras. The Trump administration did that.

you’ve lied to this body!

If that were true, they have had ample time to address the matter. They haven’t.

I gave the entirety of your post to my editorial assistant to research:

That is a good finish to a political roast. It is a poor finish to an evidentiary hearing.

Hawley did uncover a legitimate matter worth examining: Fauci sought nominations for prestigious awards, federal employees helped assemble material, and Fauci received approximately $900,000 from the Dan David Prize. That conduct can reasonably be criticized as vain, unseemly or potentially abusive.

But Hawley then outran the evidence:

Fact: Federal ethics officials reviewed the awards. They rejected payments from Vanderbilt and Georgia Tech because of their relationships with Fauci’s agency, but approved the Dan David Prize as a bona fide public-service award. The released records reportedly contain no finding that Fauci violated ethics rules.

Misrepresentation: Hawley purported to quote 5 C.F.R. §2635.205(b) as saying federal employees cannot use “federal resources, federal dollars, federal employees, federal offices, federal email, federal time” to solicit awards. That is not what the regulation says. It prohibits using one’s government position or authority to solicit or coerce the offering of a gift. The immediately preceding regulation expressly permits cash awards for meritorious public service when an ethics official provides the required written determination.

Invalid inference: “Silence is admission” is not an evidentiary principle. Fauci’s pardon creates a serious legal question about whether he retains the privilege regarding pardoned federal conduct, and Hawley’s argument on that narrow point is not frivolous. But a senator declaring the privilege invalid does not transform every unanswered accusation into a proven fact. The committee would have to pursue contempt and ultimately obtain a legal ruling.

Pure rhetoric: “Narcissist,” “megalomaniac,” “sun god,” “you wanted every drop of cash” and “it was all about you” are Hawley claiming knowledge of Fauci’s internal motives. The diary certainly portrays someone acutely conscious of his celebrity and publicity. It does not prove that his entire pandemic response was a personal power trip.

The InStyle interview is especially silly as evidence. A public-health spokesman giving a magazine interview during a public-health emergency might be self-promotional, useful communication or both. It does not establish corruption.

So when Sean says “good finish,” he is praising the humiliation and theatrical force of Hawley’s performance. Hawley had a potentially serious ethics question available to him. Instead of proving it, he treated Fauci’s refusal to respond as permission to deliver a prosecution summation, psychological diagnosis and sentencing speech simultaneously.

My characterization: factual foundation, substantial unanswered questions, grossly overstated conclusion.

Factual substance : bullshit ratio — approximately 35 : 65.

Somebody aught to tell Hawley the Maga rabble is coming so he can run like the little wuss he is.

Yawn. If there were some evidence of a crime, he’d be charged with it. But they have nothing, so Rand Paul is trying to catch Fauci in a perjury trap. That’s why he was so frustrated when Fauci took the 5th.

When the guy running the hearing has made it clear he wants to put you in jail, only a moron would answer questions.

If there were some evidence of a crime, he’d be charged with it.

You know how pardons work, right?

n the guy running the hearing has made it clear he wants to put you in jail, only a moron would answer questions

Right. I sure remember you making that exact point when Trump pleaded the fifth (with no pardon in hand) when he was questioned by people who campaigned on putting him in jail.  -

Trump was sued or indicted six times over the 2023-2024 period. How many of those was he found innocent of in court?  That number would be zero. 

rump was sued or indicted six times over the 2023-2024 period.

What does Trump have to do with Fauci taking the fifth despite accepting a pardon for the crimes he committed? 

What does Trump have to do with Fauci taking the fifth despite accepting a pardon for the crimes he committed? 

Because this is all just a big distraction from this failure of an administration. There is not a serious Republican asking legitimate questions, this was clearly an attempt to entrap Fauci into saying something that the desperate Republicans can make hay out of.

And just because he was pre-pardoned for this very reason, doesn't mean Republicans weren't trying to turn it into an attack on Democrats or at the very minimum a distraction before the midterms.

And just because he was pre-pardoned for this very reason

I don't think you understand how pardons worked. He was pardoned for crimes he's already committed. He was not "pre pardoned" for anything. 

justice

DR. ANTHONY S. FAUCI

A FULL AND UNCONDITIONAL PARDON

FOR ANY OFFENSES against the United States which he may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 1, 2014, through the date of this pardon arising from or in any manner related to his service as Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, as a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force or the White House COVID-19 Response Team, or as Chief Medical Advisor to the President.

This was a preemptive pardon anticipating Trump would try to go after Fauci.

FOR ANY OFFENSES against the United States which he may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 1, 2014, through the date of this pardon arising

Pardons are retroactive.  He was pardoned for the crimes he admitted he already committed. That has nothing to do with his refusal to testify today, unless he knows he cannot testify without perjuring himself. 

He was pardoned for the crimes he admitted he already committed.

He was pardoned for the crimes that someone alleges he had committed (or actually committed) during a specific duration and under specific conditions, but the pardon is unconditional within those bounds.   

So, Sean, to be crystal clear (yet again), Fauci is pardoned "FOR ANY OFFENSES against the United States which he may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 1, 2014, through the date of this pardon arising from or in any manner related to his service as Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, as a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force or the White House COVID-19 Response Team, or as Chief Medical Advisor to the President".

You can allege that Fauci took a bribe to look the other way (or whatever) during this period and under these conditions but that would be pointless because he is pardoned whether or not he committed the alleged crime.

You know how pardons work, right?

I know how many things work. But it’s up to you to make your own argument.

I sure remember  you making that exact point when Trump pleaded the fifth

I don’t know what you remember, but I support anyone pleading the 5th. No one has a duty to help the government build a criminal case against them.

I just find it comical that ANY trump supporter has the balls to call someone else a liar, talk about some next level hypocrisy..

most have their blinders attached to a neck brace. with an unhealthy portion of selective amnesia ...

selective amnesia ...

Bingo..