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Trump Has Been Indicted For Conspiracy To Defraud The United States, and 3 other counts

  
By:  John Russell  •  3 years ago  •  111 comments


Trump Has Been Indicted For Conspiracy To Defraud The United States, and 3 other counts
 

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Trump has been indicted for three criminal conspiracies related to his attempt to steal the 2020  presidential election. 


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  author  JohnRussell    3 years ago

Its about god damn time. 

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
1.1  Dig  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 years ago

My sentiments exactly.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 years ago

TWO AND  A HALF YEARS!!!!  Seems to me the American Wheels of Justice need a bit of oil, or is that a problem concerning global warming?  And you ain't seen nuthin' yet - the many ways to delay the proceedings will be exercised in their fullest.  You'll be lucky to see this finalized in another two and a half years if not more. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2    3 years ago

The Wheels of Justice may turn slow but it's effective in this case. One should never rush the gathering of evidence especially if the goal is a guilty verdict

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.2.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2.1    3 years ago

But not if its effect is to build a fascination with and loyalty to a criminal.  

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
1.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 years ago

This is a political minefield, with one of our two major political parties slavishly loyal to the man who has been indicted.

For the sake of our "rule of law", the prosecution absolutely must cross every "t" and dot every "i". It must be perfectly clear that the trial(s) are justified, and unfold according to the law. There must be a stark contrast with Trump's totally unjustified call to "Lock her up!"

The wheels of justice grind slowly.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2  author  JohnRussell    3 years ago
F ormer president Donald Trump says a third criminal indictment against him will become public at 5.00 pm ET, just hours after the Washington, DC grand jury hearing evidence in the probe into his attempts to overturn the 2020 election ended work for the day.

The ex-president appeared to announce the impending charges against him late Tuesday in a post to his Truth Social website.

“I hear that Deranged Jack Smith, in order to interfere with the Presidential Election of 2024, will be putting out yet another Fake Indictment of your favorite President, me, at 5:00 P.M,” he wrote.

An indictment has been handed down. Now it is just a question of when the specifics will be announced. 

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
2.1  cjcold  replied to  JohnRussell @2    3 years ago
Truth Social

The problem being that Trump has never told the truth ever.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3  JBB    3 years ago

This time he should be jailed until after his trial...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
3.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @3    3 years ago

You don’t support pre-trail detention reform like NY has implemented?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.1  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1    3 years ago

original

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
3.1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JBB @3.1.1    3 years ago

What surprises me is that in this gun-crazy gun-loving nation great Presidents like Lincoln and Kennedy get shot but this piece of shit American humiliation is still walking around spouting his garbage and so many Americans treat him like the Golden Calf. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
3.1.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.2    3 years ago

Ummm............ Buzz??

Coherence? You're really expecting coherence from crazy people?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4  author  JohnRussell    3 years ago

It sounds like Giuliani, Sydney Powell, and John Eastman were the co-conspirators.  And 3 others. 

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
5  cjcold    3 years ago

Trump was raised to be a criminal by his criminal father and his mafia friends.

The nut didn't fall far from the tree.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
5.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  cjcold @5    3 years ago

Exactly, he’s a NY’r through and through.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  cjcold @5    3 years ago
"Trump was raised to be a criminal by his criminal father and his mafia friends."

Didn't his grandfather run a whore-house up north?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6  Sean Treacy    3 years ago

June 7 : FBI releases documents to Congress alleging the Bidens took a $10M bribe from Burisma. \

June 8 : Jack Smith indicts Trump in Mar-a-Lago docs case.

July 26: Hunter Biden goes to court and rejects sweetheart plea deal after it was revealed DOJ tried to give him blanket immunity from future prosecutions.

July 27 : Jack Smith adds more charges for Trump in the Mar-a-lago case.

July 31 : Hunter Biden's former business partner testifies to Congress that Joe Biden was on over 20 calls with his son's business partners and that Burisma execs pressured them to fire the prosecutor

August 1 : Jack Smith indicts Trump again for January 6.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    3 years ago

Some of our friends on the right are completely cracking up. 

This indictment was foretold at least two weeks ago. 

This is almost exactly the same timeline used in the prior indictment. 

As far as having some relation to the Biden "investigation", there is no such thing as a day when the crackpot GOP congressmen are not claiming this or that about Biden. So there is no day that would have been a good day to indict Trump from that perspective. 

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
6.2  Hallux  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    3 years ago

Ah, the dot conspiracy. /S

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.3  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    3 years ago

Are you seriously trying to dismiss Trump’s wrongdoing and pretend these are bogus charges based solely on politics??

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    3 years ago

Dear God, Sean...

Comparing Hunter Biden and Donald Trump is ridiculous... even for you.

Oh, wait... it isn't, is it?  jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7  author  JohnRussell    3 years ago

Some people are wondering why the 6 co-conspirators were not indicted today. 

The answer is because Smith wanted to just indict Trump to expedite the trial. The others can be charged in separate indictments. 

Mark Meadows ws not described as a co-conspirator, which means he likely flipped on Trump. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
7.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @7    3 years ago
The answer is because Smith wanted to just indict Trump to expedite the trial.

It might also be a message that they may get a better deal if they cooperate now.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
7.1.1  Snuffy  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @7.1    3 years ago

In reading the indictment, Pence has to be a if not the star witness.  That's an interesting mix as he's also a candidate for the nomination.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
8  Greg Jones    3 years ago

Bogus charges, freedom of speech issue. No reasonable and fair jury will convict. It's all political.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.1  Snuffy  replied to  Greg Jones @8    3 years ago

Well....   the jury being comprised of members from Maryland may have something to say about that.

In reading thru the indictment, it does seem like it's going to be a harder case for the government to win however.  Don't they need to prove intent?  How much of this was political speech and how much was inciting the crowd?  And this is not the first time a presidential contender has lost the election and tried to use the courts or other legal means to find a win, but Trump did go further with this than others have.  Just don't know how this will all play out, should be interesting to watch however. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @8.1    3 years ago

And you say you dont cover for Trump. Its hilarious. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.1.2  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.1    3 years ago

Then please spell out in detail where in that post I did provide any cover for Trump.  Was it where I said this might be a harder case for the government to win?  Or when I asked if they need to prove intent to convict?  Or was it where I said that Trump went further than any other presidential loser?  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.3  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @8.1.2    3 years ago

There is zero legitimate comparison between Trump and previous presidential losers. Donald Trump approved of a plan to have his vice president essentially declare him the winner of the election. In order to do that they would have to throw out the votes of millions of people in the "disputed" states. He is a traitor. He'll be a traitor next week, next year, and a hundred years from now. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.1.4  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.3    3 years ago

What bullshit.  Are you really trying to tell me that no other presidential loser has tried to use the courts to overturn the loss?  Or is it merely because I'm not screaming to have Trump burned at the stake?  Did you miss the statement where I said Trump went further than any other who attempted to use the courts to overturn a loss? 

You are so wrapped up in hating all things Trump that you cannot see the forest for the trees.  You toss out a bullshit accusation and when asked to back it up you throw out banal extremism to try to make your point.  

But you do win one contest, I'm done trying to have a conversation with you.  You demand that any reply to you must be in goosestep with your ideals and I refuse to play your game.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.5  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @8.1.4    3 years ago
Are you really trying to tell me that no other presidential loser has tried to use the courts to overturn the loss? 

He is not being charged with going to court.  Good god. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.1.6  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.5    3 years ago
He is not being charged with going to court.

No shit, glad you caught that.  Just how many court cases did he lose before Jan 6th?  Yes I know these indictments are about Jan 6th, and that's why I said what I did in the first fucking post where I thought this would be a harder case for the government to win.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.7  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @8.1.6    3 years ago

No one has ever done what Trump tried to do. Not even close. To put him in with a bunch of other previous losers is crazy and shows the motivation of the person saying it. 

We're done. You can have the last word. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.1.8  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.7    3 years ago
To put him in with a bunch of other previous losers is crazy and shows the motivation of the person saying it. 

Only in your opinion.  That and $5 will still get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, go live it up.

Guess you completely ignored where I said that Trump took it further than anybody else.  Maybe you should try to read the words that are actually there instead of trying to apply your "Trump" filter to every conversation.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
8.1.9  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Snuffy @8.1    3 years ago
In reading thru the indictment, it does seem like it's going to be a harder case for the government to win however.  Don't they need to prove intent? 

You bet they do. As was shown in the HRC case, it is almost impossible to prove. He talked, people heard what they wanted to, and acted like dumbasses.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.1.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  Snuffy @8.1.2    3 years ago

His intents was to overturn a legitimate election. All of us saw it. I don't think it will be all that difficult to prove intent.

I could be wrong

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.1.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1.10    3 years ago

I'd guess that the difficult part of the DOJ case will be tying Trump to the rioters. I remember TV news wondering what he was doing.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.1.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.1.11    3 years ago

I don't think it's going to be that hard to tie him to the rioters. Congress heard testimony from some of them didn't they?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.13  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.1.11    3 years ago

The indictments are not dependent on tying him to the rioters, although the narrative in the indictment does do that. The text of the indictment follows a chronological path through what Trump and the other conspirators were doing from the time Joe Biden was declared the winner by the news services and the evening of Jan 6th, and it does include commentary on Trumps jan 6th speech and his actions or non actions as the riot was unfolding. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.1.14  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.13    3 years ago
t dependent on tying him to the rioters, although the narrative in the indictment does do that.

yeah, they might be waiting for a more politically beneficial time to drop a superseding indictment, maybe when more dirt comes out about the Bidens or if Trump has a lead in the middle of the fall. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.1.15  Bob Nelson  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.13    3 years ago

It seems clear that there was incitement in fact, but I don't know the legal criteria to make that charge stick in court.

Obviously Trump did nothing to calm the insurgents, but is there a criminal charge for that? "Criminal negligence"? A President who does nothing while insurgents attack the Capitol... that may not quite qualify as treason, but...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @8    3 years ago
Bogus charges …

You know that is not true.   Why post such a foolish comment?  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
8.2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @8.2    3 years ago

Stop with the insults Tig. I won't play your snide little game

Tell us all why you believe the charges to be true, factual, credible, and provable in a court of law.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
8.2.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  TᵢG @8.2    3 years ago
Why post such a foolish comment?  

96

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
8.2.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Greg Jones @8.2.1    3 years ago

256

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2.4  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @8.2.1    3 years ago

You made the claim that these charges are bogus so you bear the burden to back up your claim.

Read the indictment and compare it to what all have observed.   Then make a case.

You merely declaring the charges of this formal indictment bogus is foolish.   If you do not want to look foolish then make a cogent, factual argument.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.2.5  author  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @8.2.4    3 years ago

Fat chance. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2.7  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @8.2.1    3 years ago

Given it has been over three days since I suggested you read the indictment and then make an informed case backing up your foolish claim that the charges in the indictment are bogus, I will make the assumption that your lack of a rebuttal means you are now much better informed.

Trump has engaged in atrocious behavior and it looks like in doing so he has committed federal crimes.

Rather than defend this abysmal character and nominate him to run for PotUS, the GOP should be aggressively condemning his actions and actively working to save their nomination for someone fit to serve.

Stop trying to defend / make excuses for Trump!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9  author  JohnRussell    3 years ago

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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @9    3 years ago

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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.2    3 years ago

Oooooooooooh. 

What is coming?  More traitors?  I can believe it. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9.2.2  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.2    3 years ago

original

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
9.2.3  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.2    3 years ago

That's actually the cover of a book by John Klotsche titled:

Donald John Trump: MEMEoir of a Stable Genius 

"This book contains 245 political satire memes, all about President Trump and his presidency. It is 12 chapters, each with a brief introductory narrative about the chapter's subject matter. The topics are broad in scope involving personal, family, but mainly topical domestic and international political issues. It is original work product and I believe, politically speaking, rather timely.

It is a rare day when Donald Trump doesn't dash off an utterance or executive order provoking needless nervousness in the financial markets or rapid ruckus in the domestic or international political theater; not to mention angst or anger with a slice of voters. Most of this hubbub is unrehearsed, unnecessary and often countermanded or modified, usually quietly or nuanced. Trump's presidency has not only been unpredictable and chaotic, but also occasionally dangerous.

The 245 political satire memes in my work are meant to both entertain and inform. The entertainment ones take serious liberties with the facts and feature a lighthearted side of this presidency. The informative align more closely with reality and are designed to demonstrate that the stakes are enormous for the business of the presidency between now and November 3, 2020, the consequential election date. In short, the work strives to elicit both smiles and encourage critical thought."

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
9.2.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @9.2.2    3 years ago

You can’t make or receive calls from your cell in federal prison, silly.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
9.2.5  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @9.2.4    3 years ago

original

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
9.2.6  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @9.2.5    3 years ago

Cheers to you, I approve of the indictment.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.2.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @9.2.1    3 years ago

I know I'm scared....LOL!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
10  Sean Treacy    3 years ago

so lying about election results is a crime.  Watch out Clinton, Kerry, Abrams etc...

looking through it, it criminalizes political speech and makes it a crime to follow a flawed strategy while staying within the legal process. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
10.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @10    3 years ago

What the hell has happened to you? 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
10.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @10.1    3 years ago
What the hell has happened to you?

I believe in the rule of law, not political expediency. The acts described in the indictment should disqualify him politically, from being President. They aren't crimes. 

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
10.1.2  Hallux  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.1    3 years ago
The acts described in the indictment should disqualify him politically, from being President.

How does that take place if he has not committed a crime?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
10.1.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hallux @10.1.2    3 years ago
How does that take place if he has not committed a crime?

I mean that his actions should end his political career because they are disgraceful and mark him as unfit for office, even if they aren't a crime. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
10.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  Hallux @10.1.2    3 years ago

What crimes??

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
10.1.6  Hallux  replied to  Greg Jones @10.1.5    3 years ago

By the end of August he will be facing at least 80+ counts ... let's put it this way, he's a ham sandwich. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
10.1.7  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Hallux @10.1.6    3 years ago

But its all "made up", lol. 

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
10.1.8  Dig  replied to  Greg Jones @10.1.5    3 years ago
What crimes??

How about trying to end the Republic, Greg?

When people start taking power instead of having it bestowed on them constitutionally via elections, the Republic is over. That's exactly what Trump tried to do. He knew he'd lost the election, didn't care, and tried to hold onto power anyway. That's the attempt to defraud the United States.

We all watched a good portion of it happen live, in real time, starting just a few days after the election. A boatload of additional information has come out since. Haven't you been paying attention?

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Expert
10.1.9  Gsquared  replied to  JohnRussell @10.1.7    3 years ago

We have now read "legal" opinions from some non-lawyers.  I'll put my confidence in Jack Smith.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Expert
10.1.10  Gsquared  replied to  Dig @10.1.8    3 years ago

As always, Dig, you have stated it perfectly correct.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
10.1.11  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @10.1.9    3 years ago
I'll put my confidence in Jack Smith.

Good idea. He's never charged  a politician with made up crimes using novel theories  and been reversed unanimously by the Supreme Court before.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
10.1.12  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Dig @10.1.8    3 years ago
Haven't you been paying attention?

They dont pay attention to the correct things. 

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
10.1.13  Hallux  replied to  Gsquared @10.1.9    3 years ago

Jack Smith appears to be a most adept i-dotter and t-crosser.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
10.1.14  Snuffy  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.11    3 years ago

Maybe not so much made-up crimes, but Smith does have a history of pushing laws to extremes to make a case.  So far we've seen indictments which is really a one-sided argument.  Now we have to wait and see how it all works out in court.  Somehow it never is as clear cut as some people would like it to be.

But maybe that superpac that's been paying all his legal bills will reach the end of the limit and cut him off and he'll have to rethink what he's going to do?  He is loath to spend his own money this way.  Personally I would love for him to work a deal with Biden to drop out in exchange for a pardon and then he just goes away to run his business.  I could live with that.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
10.1.15  Greg Jones  replied to  Dig @10.1.8    3 years ago
"How about trying to end the Republic, Greg?"

Oh please Dig, give it a break. It was unplanned and spontaneous demonstration that got ugly because of couple dozen zealots. Never came close to an insurrection which never had a chance of succeeding anyway.   If Trump is convicted in a court of law of some kind of "crime", he should pay the consequences. In the meantime, keep milking this kerfuffle for all it's worth.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
10.1.16  Greg Jones  replied to  Gsquared @10.1.9    3 years ago
"I'll put my confidence in Jack Smith."

His record of winning cases is not good.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Expert
10.1.17  Gsquared  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.11    3 years ago
made up crimes using novel theories

Conspiracy and obstructing an official proceeding are "made up crimes using novel theories"?  Hardly.  Ask Stewart Rhodes.

As for the McDonnell case, the jury certainly thought he was dirty.  Even Justice Roberts in his opinion called McDonnell's conduct "distasteful; it may be worse than that".  The Supreme Court overturned the conviction on a narrower interpretation of the federal bribery statute than the trial court allowed.  Got anything else?

If you hurry up and pass the bar, you could be one of Trump's defense attorneys.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10.1.18  JBB  replied to  Gsquared @10.1.17    3 years ago

The Congressional January 6th Committee provided much of the evidence Trump has been indicted for. Kevin McCarthy shut that down, but it did not go away. Our system is geared not to prosecute former Presidents but Trump's crimes are so egregious and so heinous they demand that he pays! It has taken too long to get Trump charged in a DC court for his January 6th Conspiracy...

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
10.1.19  Dig  replied to  Greg Jones @10.1.15    3 years ago
It was unplanned and spontaneous demonstration that got ugly because of couple dozen zealots.

There were far more than a couple dozen, for whom it was neither unplanned nor spontaneous.  It's about more than Jan 6, by the way. That was just the final hurrah.

If Trump is convicted in a court of law of some kind of "crime"

Why the quotes? You think conspiracy to defraud the United States isn't a crime? Trump is an enemy of, and a traitor to the Republic, for knowingly and willingly trying to effectuate a self-coup.  Are you actually on his side in all of this? You're kind of giving off that vibe.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
10.1.20  Trout Giggles  replied to  Snuffy @10.1.14    3 years ago
Personally I would love for him to work a deal with Biden to drop out in exchange for a pardon and then he just goes away to run his business.  I could live with that.

I could, too

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10.1.21  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @10.1.20    3 years ago

A sane person would make a deal. Any sane person...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
10.1.22  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @10.1.21    3 years ago

Maybe he is going for an insanity defense.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
10.1.23  MrFrost  replied to  Hallux @10.1.13    3 years ago

Jack Smith appears to be a most adept i-dotter and t-crosser.

Jack Smith is what the right wanted John Durham to be. Sadly, for the right, John Durham never had anything to start with. Jack Smith is working with what we call, "a target rich environment". 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
10.1.24  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @10.1.16    3 years ago

His record of winning cases is not good.

Better by a long shot than trump's record of winning court cases. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
10.2  TᵢG  replied to  Sean Treacy @10    3 years ago
so lying about election results is a crime.

You think Trump is indicted merely because he lied?    Is that truly your level of understanding regarding these charges?

In other words, what value is it to pretend obtuseness?   What do you think that accomplishes?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11  author  JohnRussell    3 years ago

d. The Defendant and co-conspirators attempted to enlist the Vice President to use his ceremonial role at the January 6 certification proceeding to fraudulently alter the election results. First, using knowingly false claims of election fraud, the Defendant and co-conspirators attempted to convince the Vice President to use the Defendant’s fraudulent electors, reject legitimate electoral votes, or send legitimate electoral votes to state legislatures for review rather than counting them.When that failed, on the morning of January 6, the Defendant and co-conspirators repeated knowingly false claims of election fraud to gathered supporters, falsely told them that the Vice President had the authority to and might alter the election results, and directed them to the Capitol to obstruct the certification proceeding and exert pressure on the Vice President to take the fraudulent actions he had previously refused.

This is what Tig and I and others here have been saying for two years. This is the product of the Eastman memo. 

the Defendant and co-conspirators attempted to convince the Vice President to use the Defendant’s fraudulent electors,

reject legitimate electoral votes,

this was the plan to throw out the electoral votes from the "disputed" states , count the rest, and have Pence declare Trump the winner of the election. This would have effectively disenfranchised millions of American voters. 

or send legitimate electoral votes to state legislatures for review rather than counting them.

when it became clear that Pence would not do the throwing out the votes scheme, they had this as the fallback. Just refuse to count the votes and say that "disputes" required sending the election to the state legislatures. Problem is there were no legitimate "disputes". Every single state had certified their vote count and their electoral votes. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @11    3 years ago

Before anyone says Trump was not behind this, I will remind you that in his jan 6th speech, an hour or so before the riot, Trump said that there was still time for Pence to follow "John's " plan. John was Eastman and the plan is what I posted above. 

John is one of the most brilliant lawyers in the country, and he looked at this and he said, "What an absolute disgrace that this can be happening to our Constitution."

And he looked at Mike Pence, and I hope Mike is going to do the right thing. I hope so. I hope so.

Because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. All he has to do, all this is, this is from the number one, or certainly one of the top, Constitutional lawyers in our country. 

Trump Jan 6th speech
 
 

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