What The Hell Has Happened To America ?
Michael Beschloss is a presidential historian who has written numerous books including
which is comprised of lengthy biographies of every US president through GW Bush. He is, let's say, an expert on American history.
This morning Beschloss was interviewed on a show and asked for his reaction to the current state of American politics. Beschloss commented on how far down the drain American attitudes have fallen. It would be fair to say he is quite worried about the future.
Never in American history has a low life like Trump commanded the number of fanatic followers like we see with Trump today. Beschloss referred to the current Republican Party as a cult.
Beschloss remarked that in 2000 a story came out shortly before the election about Bush having got a DUI 25 years previously , and that Bush campaign officials feared it would cost him the election. Even after, the Bush people though he would have won more easily without that story being out there.
Today, 23 years after that election, we have a frontrunning candidate for the GOP who has been indicted for - attempting to steal a presidential election, conspiring to deprive tens of millions of Americans of their vote in 2020, tampering with the election in Georgia , stealing classified documents related to US war plans, and obstructing an investigation into the theft of those war plans, and that candidate is far out in front of his opposition in the race for the GOP nomination.
By any objective measure or analysis, public loyalties and standards have deteriorated almost beyond recognition when it comes to what might "disqualify" a candidate. Some people might try and dispute this, but they are wasting their breath.
What the hell has happened to America? Why is the worst human being ever to run for high office in this country still a thing, let alone the lone front runner? A poll a few days ago revealed that 70% of Republicans support Trump as the potential Republican nominee. In other words, although he may not be their first choice ( although he mainly is) , 70% of Republicans have no second thoughts about him going back into office.
How can this be?
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We live in a degraded nation, and that needs to sink through thick heads.
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People who are not worried about the future of our country are either dreaming or not paying attention.
This is what happened to American politics.
She must have had superpowers.
Clinton thought she had superpowers. That delusion really has contributed to the mess we're in.
So your explanation for the great majority of Republicans sticking by someone who sat there eating potato chips while the US Capitol was under attack is "Hillary Clinton".
LOL.
I would say it started with Bill Clinton. Biden became a national joke when he was caught plagiarizing speeches and had to drop out of the '88 race. Clinton became a hero to half the country when he perjured himself and lied to the American people. He taught the lesson that if you keep your political base with you, nothing else matters. They'll adopt arguments like "character doesn't matter" or "one free grope" or lying under oath is okay if its about sex in order to avoid letting the other side "win." His good friend Donald Trump learned the lesson well and applied to his own career. Clinton made loyalty to party over the truth, or even right or wrong the defining characteristic of American politics.
Last night Trump was interviewed by Tucker Carlson. More than once Carlson asked Trump if he thought there could be violence. Trump's replies were that he didnt know, but that people were very upset with what is going on , the clear implication that they were upset by the way HE is being treated by law enforcement.
Just out of curiosity , did Bill or Hillary Clinton ever state that there might be public violence because of something related to accusations against them?
And then in 2009 the Tea Party came into being and we had the extremists from both sides running things. Yeah, I know someone on this seed is gonna bitch about the both-sideism's of that statement, too fucking bad. The extremists gained sufficient seats to throw a wrench into the works and prevent compromise that they didn't want and it's been going downhill ever since. Today the party calls the shots and We the People lose out.
Party Uber Alles.
What actions by Democratic politicians equate to dereliction of duty by the president of the United States concerning an attack on the US Capitol ? I must have missed them.
You just can't help yourself, can you. You need to pivot to Trump all the time. I can't imagine living a life where that need is so prevalent. I replied to a comment that talked about how this downward slide started and I expanded on it. You can ignore the extremists on the Left all you want but they are there none the less. Did any of my words cause you confusion where you thought I was comparing the actions of members of the House and Senate to Trump? If you did then you really need to see someone because nowhere in my post did I bring Trump in. Unlike some, he does not consume my every waking thought.
The seeded article is about what a presidential historian said about Trump and MAGA. There was no pivot to Trump. He is the topic.
The article is specifically about what has happened to America in that we have a four time indicted politician as the front runner of a major political party. This has never happened before, and it is sick.
Do you think trumpism is a cult, or no?
Yup
We go through the same utter nonsense on Newstalkers all the time. Someone saying that xyz that some Democrat did is as bad as what Trump has done.
It is fucking ridiculous.
It appears to be cult-like so yes. The biggest indicator to me is that Trump is an authoritarian who as such just cannot leave. He could have retired to his golf courses after 2020 but his ego demands that he get back in there to "show us what we did wrong". Too bad on his part.
Yes, Trump took it further than anybody else has in the past. But we have had shitty politicians in the past who have been involved in criminal like behavior and we survived it. Hell, just look up what Huey Long did while he was governor.
IMO a bigger issue is that politicians no longer bother to work for the people who elected them. It's obedience to the Party first and always.
What is ridiculous is you putting words in my mouth. NOWHERE did I say that something a democrat did was as bad as what Trump did. You need to work on your comprehension and stop reading everything thru your "HATE TRUMP!!!!" filter. And before you come back and tell me you don't hate Trump, don't bother as I won't believe you.
Republicans should just bar trump from running on the ticket. Or do like the democrats and change the rules so he doesn’t have a chance to get enough delegates to win no matter what he does.
I think what Jefferson Davis did was worse than what trump did so technically…….trump was nowhere as bad as a few democrats we could name.
I wish they would, unfortunately it doesn't look like they are willing to defend their party. If 2024 is just a repeat of 2020 with Trump and Biden at the heads of each ticket, I'm gonna forgo voting and just get drunk.
I’ll vote 3rd party like the last 2 elections. I can’t vote for trump or someone who is mentally incapable of performing his duties.
It is likely that many will join you in voting 3rd party or not voting for PotUS.
They are all going to vote for Trump.
Does that keep you up at night?......
3rd party voters, disgruntled Bernie fans and others who did not vote made hugely disastrous consequences for all in 2016!
Which 'they' are you talking about?
Indeed. Thus if there is a chance that Trump could win in the general, everyone should vote against him.
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Agreed. There is a great deal of intended gaslighting coming out of MAGA. Sly as foxes. Gaslighting 'all' who don't keep up with their sly deceptions. Good on you for making this call! They are going to vote for Trump-every inch of him.
Surely you yourself can already see that Trump has proven that to be so. Please don't answer "Don't call me Shirley."
IMO it's more than that, it's also do and say whatever it takes to keep the lobbyists' gravy train flowing, instead of putting the needs of the people first. Fuck integrity - Liz Cheney found out what happens with that.
Apparently you do not see this, but it happens every day in business (marketing), politics and religion.
It is a control over a group, not specific control over a particular individual.
In the past 24 hours we have seen a Russian leader murder an opponent and an American leader prosecute and humiliate his opponent.
That is part of what happened.
Biden is not the cause of Trump's legal problems. Trump is the cause.
Trump should be a man and take his personal and private (ok, I'll be nice) . . . whupping from the legal system if he's got it coming!
Trump will never be a stand up guy, his punishment will have to be forced on him.
Nor is he the prosecutor.
Biden is the beneficiary. No one is arguing that Biden is a 'good' President. The comparison is only that Biden is better than Trump.
By convincing the public that Trump's imagined and real crimes pose an extreme threat to the United States, Biden's imagined and real crimes are supposed to look petty and unimportant. The ruling class has put forward the argument that Biden is the lesser of two evils.
It's apparent why that's happened. The ruling class can manipulate and control Biden. That hasn't been possible with Trump. And that, alone, is why Trump is still a better choice than Joe Biden.
Yes he is.
Which should be obvious.
There is no equating Biden (or most anyone) with Trump. No argument with that as a premise will be sound.
Conspiracy theory. The ruling class (i.e. those with uber wealth and power) control (i.e. influence) ALL politicians indirectly. This has been true since the beginning of civilization (i.e. the beginning of politics). There is no special organized force of 'ruling class' controlling (indirectly) Biden and powerless to control (indirectly) Trump.
That is ensured by portraying Trump's imagined and real crimes as worse. Piling on as many indictments as possible using the flimsiest of legal justifications supports a political narrative. And that political narrative has its roots in the dirty politics employed by Clinton. Clinton's dirty politics was intended to convince the public that Trump was a worse choice than Clinton. The dirty politics employed by Clinton was not intended to convince the public that Clinton was a good choice on her merits.
Since the Clinton campaign, Democrats haven't been trying to convince the public that Democrat politics is worthy or good. (Bernie Sanders played a role in that.) Democrats have only been trying to convince the public that Democrats are the lesser of two evils. Convincing the public that Republicans are worse only makes Democrats better by default. Wasn't that Biden's strategy with his 'not Trump' campaign?
There are 756 billionaires living in the United States. There are 708,000 social workers in the United States whose fortunes depends upon public funding. There are 3.2 million teachers in K-12 public schools whose fortunes depend upon public funding. There are 519,682 political offices, at all levels of government, whose fortunes depends upon public funding. There are 22.1 million government workers, at all levels of government, whose fortunes depends upon public funding.
What do you think the ruling class means? The billionaires can influence politicians using graft. But aren't the politicians really part of the ruling class?
They are worse ... much worse. Worse than anything done by any PotUS in the past or present.
Seriously Tig?
Biden's weaponizing of the DOJ, FBI, and IRS to prosecute a political opponent and interfere in an upcoming election is illegal and unconstitutional.
This is much worse than anything Trump is accused of.
You (and Texan) believe this crap ⇡? You (and Texan) believe Biden is orchestrating a campaign to prosecute Trump merely because he is a political opponent (one who would almost certainly give Biden the win) and NOT because these indictments have merit because of actions Trump executed??
There is no reasoning with someone who believes such a distorted alternate reality.
Do you disagree with post @2.3.9? I take your vote up to mean that you agree.
Set the record straight.
Really? Perhaps it would be wise to review the history of one of the founders of the Democratic Party and the first President from the Democratic Party, Andrew Jackson. And don't ignore that Democrats seceded and started a civil war because their candidate, John Breckinridge, lost the 1860 election.
A (highly subjective) political narrative has been concocted to portray Trump's imagined and real crimes as worse than any Potus. Which conveniently absolves past and sitting Presidents (and losing candidates) by default. But Democrats, as a party, have done much, much worse things to the country after losing an election. Democrats really have attempted to destroy the United States. Democrats really have tried to rig elections by various means, including Jim Crow.
Trumps imagined and real crimes pale in comparison to the 200 year history of the Democratic Party. By all means, express outrage using a concocted political narrative as justification while blithely ignoring far worse crimes committed by Trump's political opponents.
Making Trump a whipping boy won't absolve Biden. Trump is still a better choice than Biden (and what Biden represents).
Trump brought this on himself. Nobody did it to him.
“Making Trump a whipping boy won't absolve Biden.”
Making puerile, partisan objections won’t absolve the irrefutable facts.
Monetizing yet another indictment? Fool me once…
Well, of course that is true. It's an easy argument to make. But that easy argument requires an assumption that what Trump did was of such significance as to be considered crimes against the state. Trump hasn't been accused of what would be considered normal crimes. Trump has been accused of political crimes against government.
The more difficult question is whether or not Trump was specifically elected to do this. Was Trump elected to challenge the conventional wisdom of the political status quo? Wasn't Trump elected to challenge status quo institutional authority?
The political narrative is that disruption of a perfunctory and strictly ceremonial Senate proceeding amounts to insurrection. But the underlying question is whether or not that Senate proceeding was intended to be perfunctory and strictly ceremonial. The perfunctory nature of that Senate proceeding has become the conventional wisdom of the status quo. Wasn't Trump specifically elected to challenge that status quo?
What if the arbitrary and contrived conventional wisdom of the status quo is the real crime against the state? What if defending and protecting the Constitution requires challenging that status quo?
Trump challenges the status quo. Biden defends the status quo. So, who is the better choice?
What a pile of garbage.
Huey Newton, Bill Ayers, Che Guevera and Fidel Castro challenged the status quo too. Were they all right?
Trump was elected to uphold and defend the constitution. He wanted to suspend it for his own benefit.
Indeed
When people forego critical thinking and simply buy the crap fed to them by their 'trusted sources' politics becomes a religion / cult. Democracy unravels when the votes of masses can be controlled by the few.
So if "people" are foregoing critical thinking. . .what are they operating on? Pure, adulterated emotions. MAGA wants to "own" those their ancestors owned: That is, everyone that is not MAGA. That is how they plan to make the U.S. "great again."
Emotion.
And that is fueled by habit (i.e. lifelong Rs), accepting trusted sources without question, distrust in the government driving conspiracy theories, and single issue drives (e.g. guns, abortion), etc.
On top of that, we have plenty of people who identify deeply with the GOP and seek to defend it no matter what. Those people are stuck in a quagmire of their own making and are now lashing out (emotionally) in frustration with delusional nonsense.
IMO, of course.
ver in American history has a low life like Trump commanded the number of fanatic followers like we see with Trump today
Didn't Biden get more votes?
Biden's own history drives home the point. He was a national disgrace and laughingstock after his plagiarism and fake resume became public in 1988. Almost 30 years later, despite severely diminished capabilities and the exposure of so much more scummy and dishonest behavior, he's going to be nominated for President, again
So your explanation for the great majority of Republicans sticking by someone who sat there eating potato chips while the US Capitol was under attack is "Joe Biden".
LOL.
Talk about lost causes and memories of superfluous, retread dusty and already stowed data. Here's another round of some conservatives and their 'notes.'
What happened to America? The prosperity and promise of the American dream and exceptionalism was Supply Sided by Reagan and the conservatives that deduced the best way to retain power is to concentrate the wealth and use that wealth to consolidate the power.
Trumps mugshot. Anger. Revenge. Destruction.
I took the liberty of recreating a 19 Crimes wine label just for Trump on this historic day. Of course he’s got 91 felony counts so I had to modify the label for his red whine.