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School kicks 12-year-old out of class for 'Don't Tread On Me' patch

  
Via:  John Russell  •  3 years ago  •  152 comments

By:   Washington Examiner

School kicks 12-year-old out of class for 'Don't Tread On Me' patch
A 12-year-old Colorado boy was removed from class due to a patch on his backpack that showed the Gadsden flag.

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A   12-year-old   Colorado   boy was removed from class due to a patch on his backpack that showed the   Gadsden flag .

Reading "DON'T TREAD ON ME," the Gadsden flag has its roots in   Benjamin Franklin's   Join, or Die   cartoon, which features a snake and calls for colonial unity. It was introduced in 1775 as a flag for the   Continental Navy .

It has served as a symbol of national strength, but officials at the Vanguard School in Colorado Springs took the young student out of class because they argued the flag has "origins in slavery."

Despite the school's attempts to have the boy remove the patch and return to class, neither he nor his mother gave any ground toward the school's persistence.

The exchange between the boy, his mother, and a school official was captured and posted to social media.

"Do they know what the Gadsden flag is?" the mother asked. "That it's a historical flag?"

"The reason that they do not want the flag, the reason we do not want the flag, is due to its origins with slavery and slave trade," a school official responded.

The mother questioned if the two were talking about the same flag and asked the Vanguard School official what consequences her son would face if he did not take off the patch.

The mother stressed how upset she already was that the 12-year-old student was missing "so much school," but the official insisted he could not return to class if his bag had the patch on it.

"We can't have that in and around other kids," she said.

The mother continued to explain how the Gadsden flag has nothing to do with slavery.

"Maybe you're thinking of, like, the Confederate flag?" she asked.

She is only there to enforce district policy, the official maintained, before telling the mother how she has every right not to agree with it.

"Because the ACLU says that he's allowed to wear that," the mother responded. "If you go on their website, it says in big letters."

"Unless there's like a ban on patches, period, like if you said, 'There's no patches allowed at this school. You cannot display what you think,' ... or anything like that, I think it's, like, one-sided."

"Other kids have patches," her son added.

The mother described the origin of the flag again and encouraged the official to visit the American Civil Liberties Union page.

"We're following district policy," the official reiterated. "The last thing I want is him out of class."

She completely agreed with the latter, the mother said.

"He takes his classes seriously. He studies. He wants to get straight As. He made honor roll when he was here before. He intends to do that again."

"But it's hard because he keeps missing class for this. ... We teach him to always stick up for your beliefs, and, I mean, you're going over the Revolution for seventh grade. I mean, the Founding Fathers stood up for what they believed in against unjust laws. This is unjust."

Footage of the exchange was paired with myriad emails from another school official attempting to justify the boy's treatment under the school's dress code.

In the explanation, the official pointed to an   article   citing a "graphic design scholar" who alleged that due to its common use next to Trump and Confederate battle flags, the Gadsden flag might be viewed by some as a symbol of intolerance, hate, or racism.

The   Washington Examiner   reached out to the Vanguard School for comment but did not receive a response.











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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    3 years ago

Gadsden flags displayed next to (literally) Confederate flags and Nazi flags

800

and people wonder why it is considered racially problematic ?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 years ago

Guilt by association?   Smearing the old Tea Party movement that was opposed to high taxes?

I thought Obama had them destroyed by Lois Lerner and Jack Smith?

Can't you discuss idea without smearing those with different values, in this case: TRADITIONAL AMERICAN VALUES!

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    3 years ago

The answer would be NO.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
1.2  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 years ago

OMG John - you see the individual carrying the shield with the Thunderbird on it?  Oh Jeezzz - please don't tell me you're gonna starting trying to tie Native Americans into this type of BS.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  1stwarrior @1.2    3 years ago

Good point. I missed that one.

Maybe we'll get another radical professor quote.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
1.2.3  1stwarrior  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.2    3 years ago

Dem/Lib logic explained in detail - 

512

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.2.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  1stwarrior @1.2    3 years ago

Oh no!!!.  If the thunderbird is used together with a swastika it's a good thing I don't ever intend to step back into the USA again because this is my favourite jacket I wear most of the time in cooler weather.  It was given to me because I was a regular volunteer at Toronto's Native Men's Residence, either as a cook or on the road.  This is the back of the jacket:

800

And the letters under the thunderbird on the front emblem are "NA-ME-RES" for Native Men's Residence:

800

Anyway, memories - here I am in the kitchen of the Native Men's Residence cooking up a big pot of spaghetti with meat sauce:

800

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
1.3  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 years ago

Are polo shirts and khakis also problematic?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
3  Hal A. Lujah    3 years ago

Maybe VA will stop offering it as a license plate option.  May as well put Pepe on your license plate.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3    3 years ago

Today, it is likely still socially acceptable to fly the Gadsden flag, but that will change as the far right racists and traitors continue to appropriate its meaning. 

It is not entirely clear cut, but I think the school is justified in banning it from its campus. 

Or can students have Nazi backpacks and Confederate lunchboxes? 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
3.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    3 years ago

When I lived in VA I would see that plate once in a while, and the drivers all tended to have a rednecky look to them.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
3.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.1    3 years ago

[✘]

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    3 years ago

But a Pride or Trans or Che patch would be acceptable and celebrated?

This is just another example of progressive overreach and repression of controversial objects and ideas

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.1.4  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    3 years ago

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    3 years ago

Sorry John, but left wing hate and intolerance just lost another round.

NEW: The Gadsden Flag Kid Just Secured Total Victory – RedState

 
 
 
George
PhD Expert
3.1.7  George  replied to  Greg Jones @3.1.5    3 years ago

Obviously, the school board is made up of white supremist.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    3 years ago

I'm curious? What meaning do the far right give the Gadsen flag? I've never heard one.

BTW, we have one in our home opposite the US Flag

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.8    3 years ago

.....no symbolic meaning is locked in time. At the risk of proving   Godwin’s law   (which holds that all online debates work their way to some invocation of Nazis), consider the swastika. A symbol of well-being associated with Buddhists for thousands of years, it was   used by commercial brands and even occasionally adorned U.S. and British military aircraft   before the Second World War. But the Nazi regime’s black, white, and red treatment, and its association with anti-Semitism, violence, aggression, hatred, and death, obliterated the design’s earlier meaning in the West and beyond.

The shift in the swastika’s meaning is, in some ways, an outlier: there’s no disputing its ugly symbolism today. (It would likely not be difficult for, say, a Jewish worker to convince the E.E.O.C. that a colleague’s insistence on wearing a swastika cap was evidence of harassment.) Other symbols suggest the fluidity and ambiguity of meaning—and the underground, almost in-group messaging symbols can send. In the early nineteen-nineties, the Los Angeles Raiders logo (now the Oakland Raiders), which involves an eye-patched football player and crossed swords, had supposedly been so widely adopted by “street gangs” that many schools in the Western U.S. banned it because of “the connection between Raiders gear and gang activity,” according to a   Times   article   from that era. More recently, a cartoon character called Pepe the Frog, invented by the artist Matt Furie as a kind of slacker humanoid amphibian back in 2005, has been   repurposed in shadowy corners of the Internet —maybe ironically, maybe not—as a winky symbol of white nationalism. “Pepe can be used by the alt-right to slyly say ‘I’m one of you,’ ”   Motherboard explained   after Donald Trump, Jr., shared a Pepe meme on Instagram earlier this month, and a   surprising number   of   reports , as well as   the Hillary Clinton campaign , agreed.

As for Gadsden’s creation: after the Stars and Stripes was adopted as the official flag of the United States (with little fanfare or recorded debate, Leepson notes), the Gadsden design remained something of a Revolutionary relic for many years. By the nineteen-seventies, it had some popularity in Libertarian circles, as a symbol of ideological enthusiasm for minimal government and the rights of individuals; there was little mainstream interest in the flag as late as the summer of 2001, when Chris Whitten, who described himself in an e-mail as having “a background in the broader Libertarian movement,” started a Web site dedicated to the history of the flag (and associated merch). Traffic spiked after the September 11th terrorist attacks, Whitten says, and searches (and sales) also climbed as the Tea Party movement emerged. The symbol’s appeal spread through pop culture, as an all-purpose signifier of swaggering defiance. In 2014, Alabama became the   seventh state   to approve a specialty license plate with a Gadsden design.

Along the way, it picked up other connotations: strident anti-government sentiment, often directed with particular vehemence at the first African-American President. As the E.E.O.C. gingerly suggested, the symbol is now “sometimes interpreted to convey racially-tinged messages in some contexts,” citing the flag’s removal from a New Haven fire station after a black firefighter complained, and a 2014  incident  in which two Las Vegas police officers were killed and their bodies covered by the flag. (The officers were white, but the shooters reportedly “spoke of white supremacy” and “the start of a revolution,” and were presumably sending that message with the flag.) Other skirmishes around the flag’s display, largely centered on its association with the Tea Party, have entangled   small businesses ,   homeowners’ associations , and even   an empty building . “People who collect historical flags like to fly them occasionally,” John M. Hartvigsen, president of the North American Vexillological Association, says. But some have shied away from “historical display” of the Gadsden flag because “it can now communicate a political sentiment that may not be theirs.”

Observers of the Gadsden flag’s resurgence—both pro and con—frequently end up comparing it to the Confederate battle flag. Hartvigsen says the version of that flag that we’re familiar with today was originally used by Confederate war veterans’ groups and the like, and was then embraced by the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacists. This association with racial hatred, and the flag’s historic roots as an emblem of a would-be government that embraced slavery, has long made the flag offensive to many. John Coski, a historian who wrote the 2005 book “The Confederate Battle Flag: America’s Most Embattled Emblem,” said in an e-mail that he suspects the flag still has “multiple meanings,” even if defenses involving regional pride and the like have been increasingly challenged and marginalized. Coski is aware that any ambiguity about that flag is unfathomable to those who see its meaning as aggressively racist—and settled. Sentiment against that flag crested last year with the mass shooting at a black church in Charleston, South Carolina. The accused murderer, Dylann Roof, was an avowed racist who had photographed himself with the Confederate flag; after the murders, South Carolina   removed   it from the capitol grounds, and mainstream retailers like Walmart and Amazon   stopped selling merchandise   that featured the design.

We have no real context for what that aggrieved postal worker experienced, or for the motives of his Gadsden-fan colleague. But however that incident is ultimately resolved as a matter of workplace regulation, it’s not going to settle some definitive meaning of the “Don’t Tread On Me” rattler. “Symbols are emotion-charged,” Hartvigsen, the flag expert, said. We care about and interpret them on a personal level. And that’s why the facts of a symbol’s history and associations can be compiled, documented, and studied, but they still won’t be the whole story. “Flags very much have the meaning of the individual who is displaying it, or seeing it,” Hartvigsen continued. More significant, those may be two wildly divergent, but equally fervent, perspectives. The Gadsden flag is just the latest example that disagreements and ambiguity do not undermine the emotional power of a symbol. Sometimes, in fact, they are its source.
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.10  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.9    3 years ago
a 2014  incident  in which two Las Vegas police officers were killed and their bodies covered by the flag. (The officers were white, but the shooters reportedly “spoke of white supremacy” and “the start of a revolution,” and were presumably sending that message with the flag.)
 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.9    3 years ago

Then it's time for us to take it back and return it to its original meaning.

I don't hear dog whistles whenever I see this flag

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.12  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.8    3 years ago

I dont think this issue is clear cut, yet. There are people who fly that flag with benign intentions. But as time goes by, on the course existing now, the Gadsden flag will become associated more and more with the far right, anti-government activism, and white nationalism. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
3.1.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.12    3 years ago
But as time goes by, on the course existing now, the Gadsden flag will become associated more and more with the far right, anti-government activism, and white nationalism. 

Then we all should start flying / wearing it to take the symbol back.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.1.14  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.9    3 years ago

Would've been of more interest if you had copy'n'pasted the part of the Newyorker's article regarding the ACTUAL context regarding the actual INTENT of the Gadsden Flag -

One answer involves history. The Gadsden flag is one of at least three kinds of flags created by independence-minded colonists in the run-up to the Revolutionary War, according to the writer and historian Marc Leepson, the author of “Flag: An American Biography.” Liberty flags featured that word on a variety of backdrops; the Pine Tree flag floated the slogan “An Appeal To Heaven” over a depiction of a pine tree. Neither endured like the design of Christopher Gadsden, a Charleston-born brigadier general in the Continental Army. His was by far the coolest, with its menacing rattler and provocative slogan.

The snake, it turns out, was something of a Colonial-era meme, evidently originated by Benjamin Franklin. In 1751, Franklin made the   satirical suggestion   that the colonies might repay the Crown for shipping convicts to America by distributing rattlesnakes around England, “particularly in the Gardens of the Prime Ministers, the Lords of Trade and Members of Parliament; for to them we are most particularly obliged.” Later, in what may be America’s first-ever political cartoon, Franklin published the famous “Join or Die” image, which depicts the American colonies as segments of a snake. Among other borrowers, Paul Revere put the snake in a seventeen-seventies newspaper nameplate. Gadsden’s venomous remix, for a flag used by Continental sailors, depicted the reassembled rattler as a righteous threat to trampling imperialism. “ The origins of ‘Don’t Tread On Me,’ ” Leepson summarizes, “were completely, one hundred percent anti-British, and pro-revolution.” Indeed, that E.E.O.C. directive agrees, “It is clear that the Gadsden Flag originated in the Revolutionary War in a non-racial context.”

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
3.1.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1.1    3 years ago

Thanks for the valuable observation.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
3.1.16  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.11    3 years ago

Sorry, didn’t mean to be redundant in 3.1.13 just saw you comment.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.1.17  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.12    3 years ago

Are you stepping into Carnac the Magnificent's realm - will become associated more and more with the far right, anti-government activism, and white nationalism. 

I believe that's called supposition/assumption/wild-azz guessing 'cause there's no factual basis for your assumption.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.18  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  1stwarrior @3.1.17    3 years ago

jan 6, 2021

800

I dont think the Capitol Police hung that there. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.19  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.11    3 years ago

Agreed. I've always gone with the original meaning myself.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4  seeder  JohnRussell    3 years ago

The increasingly popular and political 'Don't Tread On Me' plate

The Gadsden Flag is flown alongside Nazi and Confederate flags at Charlottesville's Unite the Right rally in 2017.

The Department of Motor Vehicles continues to sell the “Don’t Tread on Me” license plate, even as the symbol has become increasingly co-opted by right-wing American politics.

The design of the plate originates from the Gadsden Flag, a Revolutionary War symbol styled around the rattlesnake. The rattlesnake, which is both deadly and native to the Americas, is coiled, a symbol of America’s pugilistic stance against British rule.   It was designed by South Carolina politician Christopher Gadsden, who owned slaves.   Several regiments flew versions of the flag in campaigns against the British.

Virginia's "Don't Tread on Me" license plate has skyrocketed in popularity, from 38,000 in 2014 to more than 97,000 now.

The flag was then co-opted by the Confederacy during the American Civil War. Confederates flew a version of the flag with stars underneath to represent slave states in rebellion against the North. Pro-secession leaders flew rattlesnake flags, while Unionists circulated imagery of eagles devouring serpents by way of response.

In 2017, the flag was flown alongside Nazi and Confederate flags at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. It was flown on Jan. 6, when protestors stormed the U.S. capitol as legislators were voting to certify the results of the 2020 presidential election. And throughout the pandemic, the rattlesnake flag has been flown at anti-vaccination protests, including in Canada.

VCU American history professor Carolyn Eastman said that the symbolism of the flag, and therefore the plate, has shifted in the past decade. Like most symbols, its meaning is malleable. It can change with time, and in the context in which it is flown. Eastman says that the Gadsden Flag has been shifting rightward.

“It’s not yet at the level of a Confederate flag, but it’s on its way there,” Eastman said.

The license plate was introduced in 2011 by Virginia state legislators. In Virginia, license plates are picked up by the DMV after they pass muster in the General Assembly, and then after a requisite 450 citizens apply for the plate.

A "Don't Tread on Me" flag hangs between broken windows after then-President Donald Trump supporters tried to break through police barriers outside the U.S. Capitol on Jan 6, 2021. 

John Minchillo, Associated Press

The “Don’t Tread on Me” plate was introduced by moderate Republican John O’Bannon III, whose district encompassed Henrico County and parts of Richmond at the time.

O’Bannon said that he was proud of his part in the successful story of the plate. He said he had no concerns about seeing it waved at the Unite the Right rally, and that comparing the Gadsden flag to Confederate or Nazi flags was “apples and oranges.”

Since 2011, it is one of the few vanity plates to skyrocket in popularity. In 2014, DMV data show around 38,000 of the plates in circulation. Today, the number is more than 97,000. At a cost of $10 per plate, they generate a gross revenue of $970,000 for the DMV.

Only a handful of states offer the flag as a license plate. Virginia is one of them, alongside Florida, Arizona, Alabama and others. Florida was the most recent to circulate the plate, starting last year.

A spokesperson for the DMV said it is required to sell the plate unless legislators repeal O’Bannon’s 2011 bill, or if it falls out of popularity, which is unlikely.
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5  seeder  JohnRussell    3 years ago
VCU American history professor Carolyn Eastman said that the symbolism of the flag, and therefore the plate, has shifted in the past decade. Like most symbols, its meaning is malleable. It can change with time, and in the context in which it is flown. Eastman says that the Gadsden Flag has been shifting rightward.

“It’s not yet at the level of a Confederate flag, but it’s on its way there,” Eastman said.

800

Jan 6th insurrection
 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @5    3 years ago

VCU huh?  Maybe I should take a ride over and give her something to think about.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
5.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    3 years ago

Won’t do any good.    Many in Academia are lost in their delusions.

Completely lost.

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    3 years ago
Maybe I should take a ride over and give her something to think about.

I'm sure the 99 sworn police officers and more than 200 security personnel staffed at VCU will welcome you with open arms.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.2    3 years ago

Don't forget the FBI. They may shoot me on sight.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.4    3 years ago

Challenge her the way her students are evidently not

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.1.6  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.3    3 years ago

Only dangerous radicals think that way, or of course, paranoid individuals. Trump and his MAGA Hats seem to think that they should be able to act like tyrants...

Yet falsely accusing Biden of being one...

Democrats don't think or behave that way.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.8  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @5.1.6    3 years ago
paranoid individuals.

You mean those who have to live in blue cities.

Ya, they are extremely paranoid.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.1.9  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.8    3 years ago

No, I mean that nobody sane believes Biden sics the FBI on the old cranks who falsely accuses him of of all sorts corruption and malfeasance on the internet. He is bigger than that and innocent to boot...

Trump, on the other hand, straight up says that he is coming for his immagined "Enemies" if he regains power. Should liberals be afraid? You imply they should!

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
5.1.11  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.3    3 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.13  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @5.1.11    3 years ago
Considering the degree to which you trash the FBI

They earned it


  I would be surprised if you did not shoot them on sight.

OIP.1RSxtEKP4VZfjgS7s08vrQHaKp?w=138&h=199&c=7&r=0&o=5&pid=1.7

Hum...

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.1.14  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.12    3 years ago

Joe and Jill Biden's taxes are public going back decades. If you could prove he ever had any unreported or illicit income and you would have him. You cannot do it...

Never can, because Biden isn't like that!

Wild unfounded accusations from Putin allies trying to get Trump reelected do not count. Show us the money, or shut up...

Yes yes, we know. Some unnamed "Biden Family" members supposedly got millions from somebody for doing something per some shady criminal ex somethings with ties to Putin and the Kremlin. So, Prove It!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.1.15  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.10    3 years ago

Then you should sleep safe and sound in your bed so long as the FBI is only going after veterans, who happen to be insane and armed and dangerous and issuing threats to harm others and themselves. [deleted]

If Biden and Garland are half as bad as you imagine, you should probably flee America!

You won't, because, your fears are unreal.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
5.1.16  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JBB @5.1.14    3 years ago
Some unnamed "Biden Family" members supposedly got millions from somebody for doing something per some shady criminal ex somethings with ties to Putin and the Kremlin.

No one in the family has denied it..................except Joe. Maybe they are handling "the big guy's" share until he is out of office. No need to spend it since he using OUR money. $18 million on a mansion? Holy shit. and that doesn't count all the trips to Delaware that as of LAST November had racked up over $11 Million.

And please no "yeah buts" or "whataboutisms"

You pull that tax bullshit all the time. You must really think they are stupid if you think they would expose any "extracurricular activity"

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.17  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @5.1.15    3 years ago
Then you should sleep safe and sound in your bed

We can no longer do that.


After all, you are not a veteran..

No, I'm not. How about you?


Because, your fears are unreal.

Tell that to the black residents of Chicago and LA and NYC.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.1.18  JBB  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5.1.16    3 years ago

Again with the unfounded accusations?

Can you artulate crimes that took place?

The last I checked earning money is still legal in America. So, why do you think Clarence Thomas' and John Roberts' wives make all those millions for sitting on all those corporate boards? They are not even business types! Hell, they add nothing except their connections to their husband's names. The gop in the Senate has already investigated Biden and they found he did nothing illegal and had never personally profited from any form of graft. So, take you high hat off and unwad em...

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.1.19  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.17    3 years ago

Get back with us when you are serious...

[deleted]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
5.1.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @5.1.19    3 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
5.1.22  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JBB @5.1.18    3 years ago
make all those millions for sitting on all those corporate boards? They are not eveb business types! Hell, they add nothing except their connections to their husband's names.

Like Hunter and daddy? Yeah like that.

And I guess you missed this part of my post. Let me help you....................

And please no "yeah buts" or "whataboutisms"

Dismissed................

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
5.1.24  Sparty On  replied to  JBB @5.1.15    3 years ago

Speaking of unrealistic fears.    See a lot of Vets snapping and shooting people do you?   Meanwhile gang violence claims multiple Americans.   Day in, day out, every day.

Hatred toward Veterans here is regularly noted by this Veteran.    It’s easy to spot fake military supporters here.

Easy.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
5.1.25  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.17    3 years ago
No, I'm not. How about you?

He’s not, clearly he’s not.

Is that crickets I hear?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5.1.26  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @5.1.14    3 years ago

WE don't have to do anything. The Republican investigative committees are in the process of proving it.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
7  Drinker of the Wry    3 years ago
"The reason that they do not want the flag, the reason we do not want the flag, is due to its origins with slavery and slave trade," a school official responded.

Obviously, this school knows little about our Revolutionary War history.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @7    3 years ago

I dont think the school explained the objection very well, but there is a very viable objection. The flag has been co-opted by the far right (see Charlottesville and Jan 6th)

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.1    3 years ago

The US flag represents all Americans, of every race creed and color. The Gadsden flag is not used for that purpose. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
7.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    3 years ago

What does their dress code say?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
7.1.7  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    3 years ago

As has the American flag.  Which way do you want it John?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
7.1.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    3 years ago

I couldn’t find any reference to this flag in the 1619 Project so it must be Ok.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
7.2  1stwarrior  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @7    3 years ago

'Course not - they weren't around until 1876 - 101 years after the original use of the flag.

There's a LOT of history they don't understand :-).

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  1stwarrior @7.2    3 years ago

Slavery wasnt around until 1876?  What in the world are you talking about?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
7.2.2  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2.1    3 years ago

[deleted]

I replied to #7 by Drinker (trying reading the "hints" in the reply slot) where he stated the CO obviously doesn't know much 'bout the Revolutionary War - "Obviously, this school knows little about our Revolutionary War history."

Revolutionary War - 1775 - Colorado statehood - 1876 - 101 years.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.2.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  1stwarrior @7.2.2    3 years ago

He said the school not CO which I assume you mean Colorado

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
7.2.4  1stwarrior  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.2.3    3 years ago

Yes'm since the young fella is going to a school in Colorado Springs :-)

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.2.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  1stwarrior @7.2.2    3 years ago
"The reason that they do not want the flag, the reason we do not want the flag, is due to its origins with slavery and slave trade," a school official responded.
Obviously, this school knows little about our Revolutionary War history.

THAT is the comment you were responding to.  Not a word (or inference) about Colorado becoming a state in there. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.2.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Texan1211 @7.2.6    3 years ago

Your comment has nothing to do with what John wrote in 7.2.5. He's responding to 1st who's comment John responded to was wrong

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
8  Hallux    3 years ago

Just about everyone has co-opted the Gadsden Flag. Meh!

800

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.1  Snuffy  replied to  Hallux @8    3 years ago

Oh snap!!!!   LOL

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hallux @8    3 years ago

Uh...I don't get it.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
8.2.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.2    3 years ago

Sure you do. He is pointing out that not only repubs or supremacists have used the flag. He is showing that the LGBTQ folks have too. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.2.1    3 years ago

Those are the Pride Colors? Where's the purple and the pink?

there's no pink but at least there's purple384

You know what...never mind. I hope I gave everyone a good laugh today

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
8.2.3  Hallux  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.2    3 years ago

It's the Rainbow/LGBTQ+/Gadsden Flag ... available at fine emporiums of Made in China crap. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.2.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hallux @8.2.3    3 years ago

I see that now. I'm having comprehension problems today

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
8.2.6  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.2.2    3 years ago

The words are in the purple but the pink is under the snake.............just bad coloring from the site that it came from????

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
8.2.7  Hallux  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.2.1    3 years ago
not only repubs or supremacists have used the flag.

Mostly Libertarians ... anyone remember them?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.2.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.2.6    3 years ago

See my comment 8.2.2. I didn't see the purple on the bottom. And there is no pink in the Rainbow flag...which is wrong! Pink goes with everything

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
8.2.9  Hallux  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.2.4    3 years ago

Good, that means I have company!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.2.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hallux @8.2.7    3 years ago

Used to be one. I liked that whole legal cannabis thing. But then they went far right Christian and lost me

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.2.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hallux @8.2.9    3 years ago

We're good company

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
8.2.12  Hallux  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.2.10    3 years ago
Used to be one.

We are all part Libertarian.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
9  Sean Treacy    3 years ago

Porn for kids? Great!

flags?  Scary! Must be banned!

The new puritans are a strange lot. 

 
 
 
George
PhD Expert
9.1  George  replied to  Sean Treacy @9    3 years ago

4 legs good, 2 legs bad.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
11  Trout Giggles    3 years ago

I don't think this is the hill you want to die on, John. So it was displayed along with Swastikas and the Stars and Bars. As I saw in video after video and photo after photo, so was the American flag

I do believe this kid is within his rights and the school is wrong.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @11    3 years ago
I don't think this is the hill you want to die on, John.

I dont die on any hill on Newstalkers. I am always prepared to defend my position on any topic I comment on. 

I would agree that not every person who flies the Gadsden flag is problematic, but enough of them are to make it inappropriate for school attire. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
12  seeder  JohnRussell    3 years ago

Flown by many protesters at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, the Gadsden flag has a design that is simple and graphic: a coiled rattlesnake on a yellow field with the text “Don’t Tread On Me.” But that simple design hides some important complexities, both historically and today, as it appears in rallies demanding President Donald Trump be allowed to remain in office.

The flag originated well before the American Revolution, and in recent years it has been   used by the tea party movement   and, at times,   members of the militia movement . But it has also been used to represent the U.S. Marine Corps, the U.S. Navy, the U.S. men’s national soccer team and a Major League Soccer franchise.

As a   scholar of graphic design , I find flags interesting as symbols as they take on deeper meanings for those who display them. Often, people use a flag not because of what is explicitly displayed, but because of what the person believes it represents – though that meaning can change through time, and with one’s perspective, as has happened with the Gadsden flag.

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A 1754 woodcut illustration in Benjamin Franklin’s ‘Pennsylvania Gazette’ is the first instance of the American Colonies being depicted as a snake.   Benjamin Franklin/Library of Congress/Wikimedia Commons

The beginning of a myth

The flag’s origin isn’t entirely clear. It seems to begin with a simple illustration accompanying an essay by Benjamin Franklin in 1754, 20 years before American independence. The image,   possibly drawn by Franklin himself , portrays the American Colonies as parts of a divided snake, simply stating “Join, or Die.” The essay it accompanied addressed the major current issue for British colonists in North America: the threat of the French and their Native American allies.

Later, as the American Revolution took shape, the image took on a new meaning. Colonists hoisted various flags, including ones depicting rattlesnakes, a distinctly American creature believed to strike only in self-defense. The flag commonly known as the “First Navy Jack” had 13 red and white stripes, and possibly a timber rattlesnake with 13 rattles, above the words “Don’t Tread On Me.”

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A flag showing a design possibly used by the early U.S. Navy.   Petty Officer 2nd Class Steven L. Shepard/U.S. Navy/Wikimedia Commons

In 1775, as the American Revolution began, South Carolina politician Christopher Gadsden expanded on Franklin’s idea, and possibly the red-and-white flag as well, when   he created the yellow flag with a coiled rattler and the same phrase: “Don’t Tread On Me.”

Gadsden was a slave owner and trader, who built Gadsden’s Wharf in Charleston, South Carolina, which was a major slave-trading site.   As many as 40% of enslaved Africans   who were brought to the U.S. first arrived there. The site is slated to be the home of the   International African American Museum , which estimates that   150,000 captured Africans   came through the wharf, and that between 60% and 80% of today’s African Americans can trace an ancestor to the trade there.

In 2015, a demonstrator held up the Gadsden flag to protest a visit by President Barack Obama.   AP Photo/Ryan Kang

A symbol awoken

For most of U.S. history, this flag was all but forgotten, though it had some cachet in libertarian circles.

The First Navy Jack version   resurfaced in 1976   on U.S. Navy ships to celebrate the nation’s bicentennial, and again after 9/11, though today that flag is reserved for the longest active-status warship. Its use remained largely apolitical.

In 2006 the slogan and the coiled snake saw some   commercial use by Nike   and the   Philadelphia Union , a Major League Soccer team.

Around the same time, though, the flag   took on a new political meaning : The   tea party, a hard-line Republican anti-tax movement , began using it. The implication was that the U.S. government had become the oppressor threatening the liberties of its own citizens.

A post-election protest in Harrisburg, Pennslvania, on Nov. 5 includes a display of the Gadsden flag.   Spencer Platt/Getty Images

Perhaps as a result of the tea party movement,   several state governments   around the country offer a Gadsden flag   license plate   design . At least some of those plates charge additional fees for the special plate, sending   proceeds to nonprofit organizations .

The Gadsden flag has appeared at other political protests, too, such as those opposing restrictions on gun ownership and objecting to rules imposed in 2020 to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Most recently the flag has been flown and displayed at some post-election protests, including events where demonstrators called for officials to stop counting votes – and   both inside and outside the Capitol building   in Washington, D.C., during the counting of the electoral votes on Jan. 6.

Because of its creator’s history and because it is commonly flown alongside “Trump 2020” flags, the Confederate battle flag and other white-supremacist flags, some may now see the Gadsden flag   as a symbol of intolerance and hate   – or   even racism . If so, its original meaning is then forever lost, but one theme remains.

At its core, the flag is a simple warning – but to whom, and from whom, has clearly changed. Gone is the original intent to unite the states to fight an outside oppressor. Instead, for those who fly it today, the government is the oppressor.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
12.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @12    3 years ago

800

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
13  Tacos!    3 years ago

It’s sad that this flag is now associated with racist assholes, because I dig it. Aesthetically, it’s one of the coolest flags we have.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
13.1  Sparty On  replied to  Tacos! @13    3 years ago

The people making the association are the problem.    Not the flag.

I believe most Americans won’t buy it but it makes for good press for those that do.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
13.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  Sparty On @13.1    3 years ago

Some flags were always arguably offensive, but this is not one of them. People who just love America might want to fly this flag - or even just the Stars and Stripes - but they don’t because of all this bullshit about how it’s associated with this or that group of assholes. I think that’s a shame.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
13.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  Tacos! @13.1.1    3 years ago

I fly three flags on my lighted flagpole.     Occasionally my college flags on game day.

But daily, the Stars and Stripes, State of Michigan flag and a Marine Corp flag but I’d have no problem raising the Gadsden flag as well.    I might need to get one now.

I think most would agree

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
14  Sparty On    3 years ago

I really hope those groups don’t start using my favorite coffee mug.

256

I’d really miss it. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Expert
15  Kavika     3 years ago

Flags and symbols are co-opted that is a fact. One of the most famous is the Swastika which was co-opted by the Nazis. It had been used for centuries by Native Americans and other groups. It was the patch of the US 45th Infantry Division until the Nazis co opted it and the division changed its symbol to the Thunderbird ( animikiig)  another Native American symbol. 

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For the first years of its existence, members of the   The 45th Infantry Division   proudly wore an ancient American Indian symbol of good luck, most commonly referred to as the swastika. The insignia served as recognition of the great number of Native Americans proudly serving in the 45th Infantry Division. The yellow swastika on a square background of red symbolized the Spanish Heritage of the four Southwestern states that made up the membership of the 45th—Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado, and Arizona. A similar symbol was adopted by the Nazi party in the late 1920’s, and as the National-Sozialiste Duetshe Arbeiter Partei (N.S.D.A.P.) rose to power in 1933 the symbol became so closely associated with German National socialism that it had to be abandoned as the insignia of the 45th Infantry Division.
The 45th Infantry Division held a contest to assist in selection of the new insignia eventually the Thunderbird became the new insignia of the 45th Infantry Division. In keeping with the tradition formerly established, it was also decided to maintain the same colors and design of the original insignia. The Thunderbird was a Native American symbol signifying "sacred bearer of happiness unlimited."
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Flags, mottos, and insignia meaning change over the years, some good some not so good. 

 
 

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