Americans' pride in US history and democracy drops, and fewer are proud to be American, polls find
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans have grown less proud of their country's history or the way its democracy works over the past decade, according to a new AP-NORC poll.
Americans’ pride in the U.S. on several key attributes has dropped since 2017 — including the nation's military and its political influence around the globe — according to the survey from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research . This poll was conducted in April, as the United States and Iran fought over the Strait of Hormuz in a prolonged war that started with the U.S. and Israel launching strikes on Iran.
New Gallup polling also finds that only 53% of U.S. adults are “extremely” or “very” proud to be an American, the lowest reading in the trend dating back to 2001.
The findings point to a broad decline in patriotic sentiment over a tumultuous period that included most of President Donald Trump's first term, the COVID-19 pandemic and rising inflation that contributed to a backlash against President Joe Biden. That timeframe also covers Trump's return to the White House, where he's taken more aggressive actions on immigration and issues abroad.
Much of the falling positivity comes from Democrats, who have become increasingly disenchanted with the country since Trump's first term.
At the same time, most U.S. adults say that being an American is “extremely” or “very” important to their identity, highlighting an enduring connection, even as some become increasingly critical of the country's past or the government’s current actions.
American pride declines on the armed forces and democracy
Americans' pride in the way democracy works in the U.S. has declined 14 percentage points, falling from 42% in February 2017 to 28% now.
In addition, Americans' pride in their armed forces has dropped 19 percentage points since 2017, and pride in the U.S.’s history has declined 14 percentage points. In each case, the drop is largely driven by Democrats, with some movement among independents as well.
Karla Galdamez — a 48-year-old Democrat who used to teach U.S. history — believes America has regressed under the Trump administration. While the Californian is not proud of Trump, she is pleased with how far the U.S. has come in 250 years.
“It’s a country that really wanted to be different and really wanted to be better," she said. "Despite some of the very ugly history that we have of segregation and slavery ... if you look at the trajectory of the last 250 years, we’ve done nothing but get better and move toward a more egalitarian nation.”
Only 14% of Democrats and 28% of independents say they are “extremely" proud to be an American, according to Gallup's new poll, compared with 70% of Republicans.
The AP-NORC poll found that Republicans are especially likely to be proud of the nation's armed forces. About 9 in 10 Republicans say the military makes them “extremely” or “very” proud, compared with about 6 in 10 U.S. adults.
Samantha Fulks, a 40-year-old in San Antonio, Texas, says she’s proud to be an American and doesn't hide it. The Texas Republican showcases that pride with an American flag in her front yard — as well as Trump flags in the back yard — and she plans to wear red, white and blue on the Fourth of July. Fulks comes from a military family, and while she believes the country's involvement in Iran is unnecessary, she remains a proud supporter of the military.
“I still support our troops no matter what they do,” Fulks said.
Being an American matters more for personal identity among Republicans and older adults
Matt Stafford, a 39-year-old in Massachusetts, is proud of being an American, even if the U.S. political system frustrates him.
He has a bald eagle tattooed on his back to represent the United States, its freedoms and “all the things we’re supposed to stand for as a country.” But despite that national pride, he often finds himself frustrated by politicians on both sides. Stafford — a centrist who identifies as “politically homeless” — wants Democrats and Republicans to come together to look out for their constituents in middle America.
“I love America, but our biggest problem is how we’re pushing both sides — like the left and the right — to the extremes," he said.
For many Americans, their partisanship is often intertwined with their national identity. The poll finds that Republicans are much likelier than Democrats or independents to say being an American is “extremely” or “very” important to their personal identity.
Younger people are also much less likely than older people to say being an American is highly important to their personal identity. About three-quarters of Americans ages 60 and older say being an American is highly important to them, compared with only about one-third of U.S. adults under 30.
Race or ethnicity matters more to many Black Americans
The AP-NORC survey found that the vast majority of Black Americans — 73% — say their race or ethnicity is “extremely” or “very” important to how they see themselves, higher than the share that say that about being an American.
Vincent Harris, a 60-year-old in California, says his identity as a Black man rises above other attributes for him because of how Black men are treated in America.
“A lot of people are scared of Black men just because we are Black and we are male. And that's crazy,” Harris said. “People don't even take you for who you are as a person; they just look at your race.”
About half of Hispanic Americans say their race or ethnicity is highly important to them, compared with 22% of white Americans.
Black and Hispanic adults are also more likely than white adults to say their family’s ancestry or country of origin is highly important to their personal identity.
Harris, who identifies as a gay man, says being an American is “a wonderful thing” because of the freedoms that Americans have, despite the obstacles he's had to overcome.
“It’s great to be an American — regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or whatever. As long as you have that freedom of choice as an American, that’s a great thing," Harris said. "Right now, I wouldn’t live in any other country in the world. I’m here. I love it.”
___
The AP-NORC poll of 2,596 adults was conducted April 16-20 using a sample drawn from NORC’s probability-based AmeriSpeak Panel, which is designed to be representative of the U.S. population. The margin of sampling error for adults overall is plus or minus 2.6 percentage points.
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This the byproduct of the "America right or wrong" mindset.
I am proud to be an American, and I think America has been a force for good in the world. But its not an all or nothing situation.
The proper response is shame for who we elected PotUS and for the corrupt, spineless career politicians who refuse to curtail him much less hold him responsible.
Our nation is much more than one rogue PotUS.
trump has definitely exposed some weaknesses in our gov't when it comes to repelling and prosecuting corrupt demagogues ...
And that is the only good that has come from the Trump presidency.
I'm looking forward to years of public humiliation by uday, qusay, and twatvanka in the very near future ...
twatvanka....hehehe
Trumpublicans do have an enormous amount of pride in their Cunt Tree and the admitted sexual predator and accused pedophile they hired to grab it.
Nothing like a little vote shaming to make me smile.
So you are not ashamed of Trump as PotUS? You think he is representing the USA properly as its hand, face, and voice?
That would be correct.
How can any patriot NOT be embarrassed by this clown representing our nation?
The suggestion that a person must be ashamed / embarrassed by Trump to be a patriot is ludicrous.
The idea that someone (you being one example) is not ashamed/embarrassed to have Trump as the voice, face, and hand of our nation is sickening.
You answered your own question
emphasis is mine
Luckily for me that seems like a you (et al) problem. I am feeling just fine and not sickened by others beliefs/feelings at all.
A fine example of why our nation is stuck with the worst PotUS in our history ... people like you who defend this abysmal human being rather than be critical of the damage he continues to do to this nation.
Uh huh. All because I am not embarrassed/ashamed/sickened or trashing Trump hourly because some folks say I should be.
Ludicrous.
You are not ashamed that we elected this abysmal human being. That is despicable.
Still a you problem. I am happy to say it will never be a me problem.
An incompetent buffoon bullshitting is the face, voice, and hand of our nation, while you deliver a thumbs up.
So we have gone from ashamed to embarrassed to despicable to sickening to thumbs up. And it is still your problem. Thank God it will never be my problem that you have such problems.
I can't even imagine how any person can be so affected by another person not sharing their outrage.
Ah. That explains a lot. I had been under the impression that you were one of us, an American effected by this out-of-control embarrassing executive that is robbing American taxpayers like me and fucking up the Whitehouse and hosting stupid testosterone covered gladiator games on the Whitehouse lawn. It makes much more sense for a defender of Trump to hold allegiance to some other foreign power that is laughing and reveling in Americas disgrace.
You should be ashamed, embarrassed, and disgusted with Trump. I think 'outraged' is also a proper word here. It is both sickening and despicable to keep giving a thumbs-up to this abysmal president.
There you go, all wrapped up into a clean packet.
Nope
You are not an American affected by an out-of-control, embarrassing executive who is robbing American taxpayers?
So nothing new. Still not my problem that I don't act the way you think I should.
I would rather sing "don't worry, be happy" instead of whining when people don't listen to me.
I am an American that is doing just fine, just like I have with every president in the past. As an added benefit I don't let other people get me upset because they have their own thoughts.
I stand corrected.
So you are not paying higher prices? You are not a citizen in a nation that has alienated its allies? You are not a citizen in a nation whose PotUS has stated an illegal war, spent untold tens of billions of dollars, shed US blood, killed thousands of citizens in Iran and wound up with a 'deal' that is far worse than the JCPOA? You are not affected by having a pathological liar who demos the East Wing, screws up the reflecting pool and then to try to blame his failure on vandals even with the mall being under 24x7 surveillance?
Despicable.
I got that. Still your problem.
Might live off the grid, grows own food, and makes his own clothes, tools and weapons. I do know that Trump appeals to a certain type of outdoorsman.
"The large brow is a sign of intelligence" the curator said with a slight chuckle in his tone.
Nor mine
Some folks spend alot of time and energy trying to make their problem your problem.
Ah, creative editing.
Cool
You exaggerate to the extreme. No the world is not coming to an end, but that does not mean that one ignores real damage to this nation as you do.
Ignoring problems is childish and does not accomplish anything. To deal with problems, one must first face them. Accept reality. Then take appropriate action.
This ...
... accomplishes nothing.
Creative editing? You mean I posted the part of my comment you were replying to. That's not creative, it's just fact.
Nice try
You do whatever you need to. So will I.
If I dont meet your expectations.......oh well. Still not my problem
It is not about meeting expectations. Most of us already know what to expect.
It is about challenging the reasoning of those who just accept whatever Trump does.
Because I am not ashamed.
Good luck with that.
Just keep giving that smiling thumbs-up no matter what Trump does.
Big difference between that and not being ashamed. But that is not my problem either.
Are you trying to claim that you do not agree with Trump's behavior (e.g. the tariffs, lawfare, firing inspectors general, profiteering from office, trolling international leaders, Iran war fuckup, absurdly blatant lying about the reflecting pool vandalism, his stupidity, his crassness, his irresponsibility, his lying, his abuse of power, ...) but it does not embarrass you as a patriot that this abysmal human being is our president and is the hand, voice, and face of our nation?
Keep smiling with that thumbs up!
especially after he rapes a little boy in the Oval Office
I am saying I am not ashamed. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.
That is just trolling
maga!
According to Gemini AI
please explain to the person who replied to me that I didn;t make an unfounded accusation.
My statement is speculation
I'm allowed to speculate but I'm not allowed to make up my own "facts". Which I didn't. Reading comprehension around here is dismal
‘Why would you post it like it is true?’
From personal experience, once a left winger says or posts something, it is to be believed with absolutely no push back, no matter how wrong or stupid the comment was
Sure seems that way. I will take advantage of calling any claim I get pushback on just speculation though.
Let me start with most of the left wingers want to destroy the US
Do you believe that?
Another ridiculous claim. Amazingly, so many (as illustrated by your comment) are willing to invent shit out of thin air and then engage in strawman arguments.
It's speculation
What leads you to speculate that "most of the left wingers want to destroy the USA"?
Don't you mean this...
That, sir, is all you do
Because it makes them feel better
I reject your theory.
Interesting.
I read it somewhere.
According to Gemini
I notice no questions about 2.2.38
In short, mindless musing based on nothing that "most of the left wingers want to destroy the US".
Mindful speculation.
Wrong, the notion that "most of the left wingers want to destroy the US" is absurd.
Seems you dont approve of my speculation. Seems like that is a you problem.
According to Gemini
No, you do not have to believe your own speculations. Speculation is simply exploring a possibility, brainstorming, or testing out an idea to see where it leads.It is completely valid to speculate for the sake of entertainment, creative problem-solving, or trying to understand different points of view without actually holding those thoughts as your personal truth.
"Not approving" is the mild way to say 'laughing at the ridiculousness of someone else's flimsy unhinged uninformed opinion'.
...the rest of your comment is a defense of trolls and the practice of trolling. Thank you for confirming what everyone else already knew.
I realize now that I included the wrong photo...
I loved that story when I was a kid
Little did I know back then how relevant that story would be today
Interesting interpretation
But therein lies the problem. People are becoming more dependent on the Federal safety net and a benevolent POTUS willing to use unilateral power. Expediency has subverted democracy. And once the political expediency is established it becomes increasingly difficult for the electorate to control.
Donald Trump is not an anomaly in US history. Franklin D. Roosevelt was as disruptive as Trump. Roosevelt challenged the status quo using unilateral executive power. Roosevelt used his executive influence and power to expand institutions. Trump has done the opposite, using executive power to shrink institutions.
No, Donald Trump is not exactly the same as FDR. But the impact and reach of their power and politics are comparable.
Yes he is in terms of firing on all cylinders of:
Past PotUS' have had flaws and made mistakes. But Trump is in a new league; no other PotUS can match the many dimensions of failures of Trump.
I don't believe FDR was a corrupt son of a bitch. Did he act like a dictator? Yes, at times he did. But he died long before I was born and can't form an opinion outside of what I've been told by the generation before me
FDR dealt with some very serious problems not of his own making. He did indeed try to expand the powers of the presidency and arguably started social democracy in the USA. But for the most part, he was (and is historically seen as) one of our best presidents.
45 was bad. 47 is, unarguably, the W.O.A.T.
45 was just the turtle head.
With 47 the whole turd came out...
the WOAT....LOL!
WTF Nerm?
Roosevelt orchestrated the complete industrialization of the economy to fight two separate wars while supplying the Brits and the Russians with unmatched quantities of war materials; of course he challenged the status quo and expanded institutions to win those wars.
Trump fucks up everything he touches especially this Iran fiasco. No end in sight, no plans, just feelings and an ego that seemingly knows no limits.
Roosevelt used methods similar to Trump's methods. So, it's not the method that determines the outcomes you're citing.
Now do you see the problem of depending upon a benevolent President? The power that has been concentrated in the Presidency is being used by Trump to obtain less benevolent outcomes. Blaming Trump lets Congress and the electorate off the hook.
If Trump was using autocratic power to create progressive programs, provide handouts, and sell-out the United States then would there be complaints? Same methods, different outcome. No one seems to complain about an authoritarian benevolent President. But that benevolence is just as dangerous.
Could be, not is.
We certainly benefitted much from FDR's 4 terms
the prescott bush neo-nazis in the republican party back in '33 would probably want to argue that point ...
I'm still proud of my country. Always have been. And always will be as long as we remain a Democratic Republic.
I'm not responsible for the craptastic piece of dog shit in the White House. Him I"m not proud of at all
I'm not worried, the constitution has provided a number of remedies and I'm excited because maga season opens in 2 days ...
Arvo...
As the saying says..
And this too shall pass..
Trumpets days are numbered..he knows it, we know it and the world waits for it..
Then the equilibrium shall return to the States and the world will breathe a sigh of relief...
And the damage done...the repair work can begin at last...
from your lips to God's ears
Someone really should let those with cognitive disabilities know.
Arvo Dis..
Nope you just can't help some people and you know a lost cause when you see one..
Can only hope their one surviving brain cell quietly dies out.😁
... bloody hell, they're breathing our air and drinking our water. how long should we have to wait?
Just find someone who can shoot straight..😁
... 3 of the last 4 were maga gun nuts, and they still couldn't get it done. based upon his current popularity, he's probably hiding in the bunker this weekend, terrified that somebody might have a moment of holiday inspired patriotic clarity ...
There are two factors.,
1. a republican ia president and democrats appreciation for the country falls whenever that’s true. republicans are consistent no matter who is president
2. Progressives, through their control of education system,have spent decades pushing extreme partisan history straight from Howard Zinn emphasizing how terrible America is. Propaganda works.
that people look around and say “gee, the people we taught to despise America grew up to not appreciate it. Who could see that coming?” Always amuses me.
As you and so many others demonstrate daily.
.
"republicans are consistent no matter who is president"
Are you FCKN KIDDING ME
Are you FCKN KIDDING ME
It’s a fact. I’ve posted the proof many times here. Not that it ever takes. But
most republicans are consistently fascist, racist, and corrupt ...
name calling is bushwa
I wouldn't say that; there have been honest, democracy loving, diverse Republicans in the past. They just don't consider themselves Republicans anymore after Trump abducted their party and tied up in his basement where he goes down each night to make it lick the stubble on the backside of his balls. I mean, who would want to subject themselves to that unless they were a corrupt racist fascist being promised that, under him, the "South will Rise Up!" by the stubbly ball sack demanding their tastebuds attention.
name one that's still breathing ...
Adam Kinzinger, Steve Schmidt, Liz Cheney, George Conway... there is a list of Republicans who, while I don't agree with all of their policies, seem to embrace many of the same things I do when it comes to loving America, and they also recognize the septic tank that the Republican party has become under the shit faucet Trump.
It's both hilarious and a little sad that some folks actually consider their woefully inaccurate opinions "facts".
It's both hilarious and a little sad
what I find both hilarious and a little sad is people who list democrats who just ran for election as a democrat as republicans..
Likewise, people who think polls demonstrating what democrats believe are “opinions”. High comedy.
Clearly where I said "They just don't consider themselves Republicans anymore" was lost on you.
The only one in your list that ran as a democrat is George Conway. He lost. Good riddance. All the rest are retired and Steve Schmidt never ran for office. He was a political strategist.
Oh....never mind...
those people may be a bit reluctant about voting for any republicans in the coming midterms ...
You listed a literal democratic congressional candidate who admires professional gaslighters “Jamie Raskins, the Chris Murphys and the Jasmine Crocketts,"as the type of republican you accept.
Pure comedy.
The list I started were of course former Republicans, some who still consider themselves Republicans, but all formerly staunchly conservative who have of course distanced themselves from all things Trump, and rightly so. I think it's more a case of the Republican party leaving the fiscal conservatives to jump on the Trump bandwagon which has now, as their fellows who chose not to follow predicted, turned into the Trumptanic which has the weak conservative cowards onboard panicking and bitterly attacking their former Republicans for abandoning them to such a horrid fate.
[deleted][✘]
Good thing none of that was name-calling.
most maga levels of self awareness mimic their savior's ...
They’re all in such a hurry to make sure everyone knows they are being bullied or something…whether it’s actually happening or not. Then they’ll turn around and accuse everyone else of being a snowflake.
[deleted][✘]
You are wrong. I do know. I also know what whining, belly aching, and playing the victim are.
So, sit down. School is in session.
This phrase, which is the subject of your whining:
…is merely descriptive. These are adjectives describing behavior - “consistent” behavior. They are not names. Freddy Fascist, Mr. Racism, or something like that would be name calling. Saying that Republicans are consistently fascist is no more name-calling than saying they are consistently conservative.
Saying that someone was a fascist would be a lot closer to name calling. That didn’t happen here.
Unfortunately since so many MAGAs can’t defend their cultish politics, they need to grasp at any opportunity to deflect by playing the victim. “Let’s not discuss the issues. Let’s talk about how mean everyone is to me.” It has become pathetic.
Funny how not that long ago the right wing called liberals "snowflakes" "whiny babies" and constantly accused us of playing the victim card.
or 3. Patriotic American people are capable of embracing the truly amazing things about America like our diversity, empathy, strength and heart while also self-reflecting on our faults and areas that need improvement. Patriotic Americans could never be proud of a convicted felon and admitted sexual predator sitting in the oval office. Patriotic Americans could never be proud of violent masked wannabe Gestapo demanding people's papers and shooting innocent American citizens in the street if they don't comply quick enough. Patriotic Americans could never be proud of a disgusting display of violence on the Whitehouse lawn cheered on by disgusting lying bigots.
Patriotic Americans are proud of America, they're just not proud of the scum bag rightwing conservative bigots who road their coattails and are under some stupid delusion that they own everything and think they are way more important than they really are.
some republicans had better learn quickly to embrace the constitution, before they become deserved victims of it ...
Well you can always fire up the criticism of other forms of government to make yourselves feel better. How about another round of Joe McCarthyism? There's still some of that around, isn't there?
The criminal Tina Peters visited the Oval Office today.
Horrendous decor, horrendous people.
I will note that Lincoln looks dissapointed...
Ben Franklin is laughing his ass off
she's afraid to go home, for good reasons ...
And the governor commuted her sentence. What the hell is wrong with him?
no doubt. when negotiating with a transactional POS/POTUS, you make a hard deal. you trade that traitorous maga gloryhole for something that trump has taken away from the state, like the arkansas river water project or funding for NOAA in boulder colorado. you make the proposal to trade both for tina being released from prison, and then to hurry the negotiations along, you place her in general population so she can get her maga face rearranged once a day by her admirers in the big house. polis is done in politics, and he knew his political career would be done by caving to trump. you don't cave to bullies, you fuck them up, permanently ...
The demcorats just nominated a candidate who blames America for 9/11 in Colorado.
but don’t suggest they hate America or their feelings will get hurt
I think you hate America, or at least the ideals that it historically has stood for.
Truth and justice appear to be merely a mirage for you, sought after only by the weak.
You have damned due process and would gratefully restrict rights of people who you do not see as good enough.
You have willingly admitted that you are prejudiced and prejudicial.
I love my country for the rights it gives to all people. The chance that it gives to thrive. It isn't perfect, nothing is perfect, but I can see why people would not claim that they do not feel especially happy with the way the country is floundering right now under the yoke of the madman installed in the Presidency who is just milking the country for the last pennies, oh, sorry, he did away with those...
think you hate America, or at least the ideals that it historically has stood for.
of course you do, most authoritarians hate classical liberals. As we see here, believing America deserved 911 means you love it. Thinking those 3000 plus people did not, in fact deserve to die and thinking it monstrous to beleive otherwise means you hate ameica.
Truth and justice appear to be merely a mirage for you, sought after only by the weak
More bizarro world. But of course, most progressives spend their time and empathy on the criminals and mock their victims. So it makes sense with their perverted world view, that’s how you characterize me. Black is white etc..
have willingly admitted that you are prejudiced and prejudicial.
right , becuase I think cultures that practice slavery are worse than those that don’t. You are offended by that. Got it.
Try again. Maybe you will actually come somewhat closer to reality.
You do not get to turn “you oppose due process and equal rights” into “you think 9/11 victims deserved to die.”
I said what I said. You answered something I did not say because the thing I actually said is harder for you to deal with.
Instead of trying to throw my claims back on me, why do you not try to mount a defense for yourself? I will tell you why. You have no defense.
My claims are actual and factual. Yours are whining, not rebuttals.
This article is about patriotism and love of country. I love my country for the rights it gives to all people and for the chance it gives people to thrive.
You wish to remove one of the sources of greatness for America: immigrants. Through immigrants, America brings in fresh ideas, new labor, new businesses, new research, and the renewal that keeps this country growing.
Through government grants, many studies and programs were funded. You seem A-OK with stifling research on many types of cancer and much more.
That research was American. It was growing. It was part of the knowledge base that helped make America a leader in the world of science.
Shutting down that research for political reasons is anti-American. Politicizing science is antithetical to the stated goals of American science.
You can dodge all of that if you want. But do not stuff words in my mouth and then pretend to be offended by them.
That is your problem, not mine.
Gee….I wonder how this breaks down by ideology s/
I saw an article that about 75percent of DSA identify as either Mao or Marxist, with about 10 percent identify as socialist.
The democratic party if fucked
Oh well
There is a major difference between Maoism (akin to Stalinism) and Marxism. And the term 'socialist' means nothing without qualification.
I suspect your article was mostly bullshit based on a superficial understanding of these terms. So let's see this article.
I am sure someone will challenge this claim and I forgot to add the link. The survey is an internal survey from the DSA itself.
If anyone wanted to challenge the survey, from Chat GTP...
The “almost 80%” figure comes from an internal DSA membership survey conducted by the organization’s own caucuses, referenced in City Journal reporting. According to that article, an internal DSA survey found that nearly 80% of members identified as either Marxist or Maoist.
What we actually know
The claim originates from City Journal, which cites an internal DSA membership survey.
The article states that “almost 80 percent of DSA members identify as either Marxist or Maoist.”
Like I said, the democratic party is fucked.
No one cares about the DSA or it's existance.
Does the survey say that the DSA has less than 100,000 members? 14,000 in New York.
What are you afraid of? It's .00005747% of 174000000 registered voters.
Like they were fucked when they lost the Civil War and lost all of their slaves?
Like they were fucked when the KKK was as important to them as the Knights of Columbus were to the Catholics?
The DSA represent .00005747% of all 174 million US registered voters.
Oha, that's scary, said no one ever. They are smaller than the Green Party which has about 150 elected representatives nationwide.
They are no bigger than the former Republican Socialist Party from the 1920's and 1930's statistically insignificant.
ChatGPT:
While I’m always proud of this country,[✘]
Donald Trump and his inclusion of sexual predators in his use of the pardon power or pardoning those so they could go commit more sex crimes like a Florida man who received a pardon for his role in the January 6th riot and later convicted of multiple state charges of child molestation, lewd and lascivious exhibition, and exposing himself to children. Or a January 6th defendant pardoned by Trump who was later convicted and sentenced for possessing over 100,000 child sexual abuse images. Or a man who pleaded guilty to destruction of government property on January 6th that was serving a 19-year prison sentence for sexual assault of a child before receiving clemency from Trump. Or another January 6th riot participant who was later arrested and accused of aggravated sexual battery of a child under 13.
Pardoned Jan. 6 rioter convicted of child sex abuse : NPR
Another pardoned Jan. 6 rioter to admit guilt in child sexual abuse case
Jan. 6 rioters pardoned by Trump had criminal records : NPR
At least 40 pardoned insurrectionists face other criminal charges—with 12 offending since Trump’s pardon - CREW | Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington
I get it, rightwing conservatives are absolutely desperate to divert attention away from their dumpster fire of a President, but it's not going to happen. These sad lame off-topic attempts just dripping in faux outrage over some splinter in Democrats eye while ignoring the massive timber in the eye of their own party proves how monumentally hypocritical rightwing conservatism truly is.
I get it, rightwing conservatives are absolutely desperate to divert attention aw
Do you honestly not recognize your post embodies everything you accuse right wing conservatives of?[✘]
I recognize that you brought up Tim Walz which wasn't being discussed at all anywhere in this seed to deflect from the conversation as to why fewer Americans are proud of their country during the era of Donald Trump. I recognize that your framing of what Walz did is extremely dishonest and doesn't tell the whole story and is being used by really stupid Trump supporters as a "Gotcha!" to try and desperately defend the actual PRESIDENT and not just some Democrat Governor who has already decided not to run for reelection.
But you go right ahead screaming to high heaven like you do with anything that isn't about Trump. It's what makes rightwing conservatives so adorable, their willingness to look reality and logic and reason in the face and shout "Fuck you!". It's always the last resort for losers just before they get their asses kicked.
lol. And of course, democratic socialists of America had to start their own party because their anti capitalist world view was more compatible with the guy on the left than the pro capitalist liberal on the right. That is of course, second to racism of course, the reason liberals like the guy on the right are being purged from the party.
FDR would be first person to call anyone who called him a socialist an idiot.
(You are clearly trying to call JBB an idiot via indirection.)
JBB did not use the term 'socialist', he clearly wrote 'social democrat'. In all caps no less!
A social democrat is not the same as a socialist. Especially if by 'socialist' one is trying to connote that of the former USSR.
FDR was not a socialist. He was, at least by his actions, a social democrat (albeit a light one).
Also, per ChatGPT:
JBB did not use the term 'socialist', he clearly wrote 'social democrat'.
of course. Jbb was making a point that has nothing to do with the takeover of the Democratic Party by the DSA that everyone is talking about. And I was discussing that takeover. it would be silly to think otherwise.
For the democrat party is being taken over by avowed socialists. FDR was not a socialist. Anyone trying to associate fdr with Mamdani and all the other socialists being nominated by the Democratic Party for congress is either an idiot or lying.
It’s great we are all on the same page that FDR would have vehemently rejected accusations of sharing an ideology with Mandani and company. Democrats in New York and otherwise are not nominating social democrats. They are nominating socialists and it’s either dumb or dishonest to conflate the two.
It would be so much easier to have these debates if everyone started with at least a roughly similar high school education equivalence. Sadly, it feels like at least half the time we have to teach basic words and argue definitions before we can even get to the ideological debate with a rightwing religious conservative.
Clearly you are intentionally being dishonest. I just quite clearly illustrated that JBB did not call FDR a socialist and here you go coming right back with the word 'socialist' rather than 'social democrat'.
If you are not going to be honest, then your posts are irrelevant.
It would be so much easier to have these debates if everyone started with at least a roughly similar high school education equivalence
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If you are not going to be honest, then
i am being completely honest.
1. FDR was not a socialist
2. The Democratic Party has nominated a number of socialists for congress in the last few weeks.
3, Anyone suggesting fdr shares an ideology with DSA party members nominated by the democrats is either ignorant or dishonest.
Which point do you disagree with?
Translation: "I know you are, but what am I?"
Perhaps you can try coming up with an original observation and not just resorting to school yard retorts, but I won't hold my breath.
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deliberate dishonesty should be against the COC
Resorting to dishonesty invalidates one's point.
Just stop with this bullshit, Sean. You know damn well that JBB did not call FDR a socialist. You are dishonestly trying to make it seem otherwise.
FDR’s New Deal introduced social-democratic elements into American government: Social Security, pensions, labor protections, public works, market regulation, and a focus on government-enabled economic security. As noted, this is a light form of social democracy: a regulated capitalist economy coupled with social programs.
This is a fact. So, using your criterion, are you ignorant of this fact or are you being dishonest?
Cool. When jbb comes here and agrees that:
1. FDR was not a socialist
2. The Democratic Party has nominated a number of socialists for congress in the last few weeks.
3, Anyone suggesting fdr shares an ideology with DSA party members nominated by the democrats is either ignorant or dishonest.
I’ll admit I misinterpreted the off topic meme [✘] He wasn’t trying to tie the socialists he’s posted numerous memes in defense of to the liberal FDR. He was just making a point that no one has disagreed with and is not relevant to anything happening in contemporary politics.
Do you understand the difference between 'social democrat' and 'socialist per the former USSR' (the context)?
So you ignore the fact that the New Deal overlaps social democracy and is properly defined as a light form of social democracy. Looks like your post is based on dishonesty rather than ignorance.
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You keep using the term 'socialist'. Show us all where JBB labeled FDR a socialist (per the former USSR based on context). You cannot because he never did.
Correct, Sean. A point that I have been making!
Given I have provided an accurate depiction of social democracy (light form) per FDR and have insisted that this is not socialism (per the former USSR), your question is nothing but trolling.
The way MAGA now define socialism FDR was the biggest socialist leader in all US history. He was, BTW, labelled as a socialist by the gop even back then. Every program FDR and Democrats ever passed to help the poor, the young, aged and workers was called socialism by Republicans. Also, there are countless good examples of long term socialist economic enterprises in the United States including Rural Electrical Cooperatives, Farmers Coops, condo associations and credit unions. Mayor Mamdani advocating for more tenant owned cooperative housing in NYC as opposed to more landlord owned buildings has the gop in red stares hair on fire hysterical aboot it. 60% of NYC residents live in cooperative apartment building. So, the model obviously works and has for over 100 years. My own home in a NYC co-op was organized by socialist Jews in 1928 because they were excluded from buying in elsewhere.
Conflating socialisn with communism is MAGA stupidity.
Thanks for making that obvious. Keep it up till November!
Good grief man, how lame. You just changed your 'point'.
Look at JBB's meme. Explain how you can think that he was suggesting that socialism (per the former USSR) is the same as FDR's social democracy (a form of capitalism).
You cannot. Your 'argument' has been decimated and now you pretend that you were making a different point.
And this is the problem with the label 'socialism'. It is overloaded and meaningless. That is why when anyone speaks of socialism they need to qualify it.
Your meme used the label 'communism' and featured Stalin. Thus any reference to that meme in terms of socialism would be speaking of socialism per the former USSR.
I challenge anyone to make a sound argument that FDR was a socialist (or communist) per the former USSR. However, I could (and did) make an argument that FDR effectively created social democracy in the USA (albeit a light form). Thus, his policies do indeed overlap modern social democracy.
And, bottom line, of course communism/socialism per the former USSR is entirely different than social democracy. So one could reasonably label FDR a social democrat (light), but certainly not a socialist or communist (per the former USSR).
keep using the term 'socialist'.
because I’m talking about people who call themselves socialists and differentiating these newly nominated democrats from FDR who was not a socialist. That’s how language works.
You cannot because he never did.
again, when he comes here and agrees with the three points I made above I’ll admit i misinterpreted his out of left field post. But I’m pretty confident he won’t, becuase he’s trying to conflate the capitalist FDR with the socialists democrats are now nominating.
have insisted that this is not socialism (per the former USSR)
so you are just insisting on repeating a strawman because I never so much as remotely implied that FDRs new deal was socialism. In fact, I’ve made the opposite point to many times to count already.
I observe other places than here. 90% of the misinformation being spread online about socialism originates from obvious Russian or AIPAC bots. They think they found issues to divide us. (Islamophobia, Antisemitism, Homophobia etc) The thing is, we were already divided. The good news is that recent elections seem to prove Americans are no longer buying it.
You are deep into your own strawman. Your argument failed so now you are trying to change the debate question.
No, you argued that JBB was equating FDR to a socialist (per the former USSR).
Your argument failed and now you are playing games.
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Perfect, exactly what i thought,
you are trying to tie the socialists like Mamdani to FDR and pretend they share the same ideology..
thank for proving my interpretation correct,
yet again. Perfect.
No, you argued that JBB was equating FDR to a socialist (per the former
I argued he was equating the capitalist FDR to the socialists like Mamdani and he proved me correct. I await your apologies.
Since ancient Rome governments have paid for free stuff (bread and circuses) to satisfy the common working people just enough so they do not kill the powerful in their sleep. History is replete with revolutions overthrowing tyrannical governments. Pure capitalism cannot long endure without a social safety system and some level of fairness any more than monarchs, patriarchs, oligarchs, tyrants or dictators. A good argument can be made that all of government included armies, police, courts and the bureaucracy are to protect ownership, including keeping the rabble from murderous revolutions...
Every single modern developed nation has a mixed economy. This is not new. Everyone always understood it, or else...
Except FDR was a Social Democrat very like Mamdani who is modeling his mayorship after Fiorello LaGuardia's. How is unfairly attacking Mamdani working out for AIPAC and MAGA hats?
Such outrageous bullshit!
His meme stated that Stalin was a communist (per the former USSR), that FDR was a social democrat, and that these are entirely different systems.
And yet again you dishonestly use the word ‘socialist’ (per the former USSR) and try to portray this as JBB’s words.
Your claimed ‘argument’ is thus irrational. More dishonesty from you as you take an entirely different point from JBB and try to claim this was the point of his meme.
We hold these truths to be self evident, to ALMOST everyone!
One being the exception. It has been entertaining. Actual LOL!
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that picture reminds me of the super thumper that used to plague this site years ago, until he finally croaked ...
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I don't know, and I don't care. there's a few that have gone MIA. like everyone else, those maga relics are eventual natural selection compost ...