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Sean

A Plan for America to Own Greenland in a Way that Makes Progressive Americans Happy

  
By:  Sean Treacy  •  Op-Ed  •  10 months ago  •  93 comments

A Plan  for America to Own  Greenland in a Way that Makes Progressive Americans Happy

Progressives are really angry about Trump's plan to purchase Greenland. And's that sad. We need a united America in these trying times. So in that spirit, I offer a plan that makes everyone happy.

What do progressives love? Diversity! Greenland is one of the least diverse places on earth!  Progressives can't like that.

So why don't we ship tens of thousands of American migrants (mainly unaccompanied  single men of military  age) to Greenland on boats? 50,000 Americans bring instant diversity and will wipe out that monoculture that progressives hate. The Americans will of course demand special treatment, as migrants do. When they commit crimes, they will receive less punishment than natives.  Greenland will have to bankrupt itself taking care of the American migrants who will rely on Greenland to provide all the basic enmities of life. The Americans will displace the natives from their homes or be be put up for free in the best hotels and send the cost of housing skyrocketing. And once they are there a for a few months they can co-opt at least one party  by funneling back some of the taxpayer aid they reive from Greenland, giving them a captive political party to control.  Under progressive doctrine, these migrants are now full Greenlanders, with just as much a right to control Greenland as the native population.

So then the  co-opted party will agitate for the American migrants right to vote.  It would be inhumane not to let them do so. Then within a year or two, Greenland's "diverse" government sells Greenland to America democratically without a shot being fired. 

Everybody wins!

Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
 

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Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1  author  Sean Treacy    10 months ago

Who says no?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.1  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @1    10 months ago

The whole premise of this thought process is a joke: That diversity means negativity and loss of what. . . Purity?  

That did not happen in the United States. Indeed. The United States is not now and has never been a pure white country. It is known for its diversity existing even before its founding.

Inquiring minds ask: Why does MAGA supporters imagine this country as a place for Whites first?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2  JBB    10 months ago

original

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.1  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  JBB @2    10 months ago

Do you just see words and hope your memes are kind of on topic?  I assume you just see the word "Greenland" and copy whatever meme pops up first on some fringe site that communicates by meme. Is that right? 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.1  bugsy  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1    10 months ago

[✘]

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
3  Snuffy    10 months ago

I had to scroll back to the top checking to see if this was labeled satire. Cuz reading it sure gave me a good laugh, thanks for that.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
3.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Snuffy @3    10 months ago

Maybe you can give Trump your trophy for being the most easily entertained person on earth.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4  JohnRussell    10 months ago

We know you are attempting to satirize, but defending Trump on Greenland is just stupid. 

Trump says we cant defend Greenland unless we own it, what he means is he doesnt want to defend Greenland unless we own it and he controls that ownership. 

Greenland is defended by virtue of its being a member of NATO. 

Danish territory, including   Greenland , has strategic importance for transatlantic defense, especially in monitoring the North Atlantic and Arctic regions.

In more recent decades, Denmark has transformed into a very active contributor to NATO operations abroad. The Danish military has taken part in missions in Afghanistan, Kosovo, Libya, and Iraq.
These contributions reflect a strong commitment to the alliance’s collective defense principle, known as Article 5.

Is Denmark Part of NATO? History and Membership Facts – All you need to know about Denmark

Trump wants to destroy or end NATO.  

Not a laughing matter. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @4    10 months ago

Trump wants to destroy or end NATO.  

NATO has been by, any measure, an incredibly successful alliance. 80 years of achieving it's goals. Off the top of my head I can't think of  a multi-state alliance that ever held together that long.  All long standing alliances I can think of tend to be between two countries, the auld alliance between Scotland and France for instance.  I don't support destroying it over Greenland at this point.

But alliances only work if the serve the interests of the countries involved which is why they rarely last for generations. NATO will not last forever. That, to me, is indisputable.  Given current trends, is NATO going to be in our best interests in 20 or 30 years? Maybe.  But it's also very easy to see a Europe that is anti-democratic with numerous countries that are majority Muslim and no longer share the same values that makes American paying for the defense of Europe worthwhile. Prudence dictates we prepare for that too. 

The value of NATO, like every other  foreign entanglement, needs to be constantly reevaluated.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1    10 months ago

Do you honestly believe that Trump wants to own Greenland to serve the best interests of the United States?

I dont and tens of millions of Americans dont.  He wants to bigfoot NATO and have Denmark bow to him. 

Trump doesnt do anything in the best interest of the United States, although he may stumble onto that result from time to time. 

He wants power.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.2  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.1    10 months ago
o you honestly believe that Trump wants to own Greenland to serve the best interests of the United States?

I don't know how you construct a case that owning Greenland isn't in the best interests of the US. 

The issue is whether the short term costs would be worth it, but in a vacuum owning Greenland is a no brainer. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1    10 months ago

This is a projection map of what percentage of European countries populations will be Muslim in 2050

800

The highest one is Sweden at 30%. Almost all of the rest are under 20%. What governments in Europe do you see the Muslims controlling in the next 50 years? 

Which European Countries Will Become Muslim? Potential Tripling by 2050 | NextBigFuture.com

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.2    10 months ago

Someone else owns Greenland and they dont want to sell it. The people who live there dont want to be Americans.  Denmark and Greenland have said they will allow whatever US military bases the US asks for. 

Should the US own South Korea?  It is considered to be vital to US interests isnt it? 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.5  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.4    10 months ago

Again, in a vacuum, owning Greenland would be good for the US.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.4    10 months ago
Denmark and Greenland have said they will allow whatever US military bases the US asks for. 

That should come off the table until Taco walks back his EU tariffs.

And they should send US troops currently at Pituffik packing, for Greenland's own security.  Our military under Trump is not to be trusted.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
4.1.7  SteevieGee  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.5    10 months ago

In a vacuum everybody dies.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.8  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.3    10 months ago

Assuming your map, is true, any number of them.  Given high migration and  racial bloc voting they can very easily assume control of those countries, unless that triggers racial block voting by native white which opens up a whole other can of worms and would also call into question the advisably of alliance. A totalitarian Europe is no friend of ours. 

Europe is a sick man and there is no relief in site.  Things can very easily go south in the next 25 years or so. There is no guarantee and preparing for the end of NATO is basic statesmanship. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.9  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.6    10 months ago
And they should send US troops currently at Pituffik packing, for Greenland's own security. 

And start a war? They can't be that stupid. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.10  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.9    10 months ago

Are you against them enforcing their borders?

Interesting. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.11  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.10    10 months ago

You can’t possibly support Greenland enforcing its borders? 

or is it only America you don’t think has that right?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.12  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.11    10 months ago

Quote me ever saying America doesn't have the right.

Straw man fallacy, AKA dishonest debate tactic, frequently used when one cannot defend one's own position. 

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
4.1.13  Hallux  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.3    10 months ago

Alas the map left out Greenland which has all of 1 Muslim resident ... and we know how those folks multiply. /s

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1.14  devangelical  replied to  Hallux @4.1.13    10 months ago

does he own a daycare center?

or maybe he's a rapist muslim, instead of the other kind, a suicide bomber muslim ...

/s

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.15  bugsy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.12    10 months ago
Quote me ever saying America doesn't have the right.

Are you for deporting the millions of non vetted illegals dementia boy and his DEI VP allowed in?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.16  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.12    10 months ago
Quote me ever saying America doesn't have the right.

Cool. I must have missed you criticizing Biden opening the borders to millions of illegal aliens and in turn  supporting Trump controlling the border and the removal of illegal aliens with no right stay here. Glad we agree.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.1.17  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.16    10 months ago

Wow. If only. . .the Indigenous People had 'shut the border' when Europeans "Illegals" arrived here. . . this place may still be a different version of 'Great!'

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.18  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  CB @4.1.17    10 months ago

 .the Indigenous People had 'shut the border' when Europeans "Illegals" arrived here

So you get the dangers of allowing uncontrolled immigration and yet support America allowing uncontrolled immigration. Interesting.

Do you think, if they knew how it would turn out, the native leaders who  used settlers as weapons against their rivals  regret how it worked out in the long run?  Think the Democrats are capable of learning that lesson?   

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.1.19  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.18    10 months ago

What I think is Native Americans rue the day that they did not starve the infected and sick 'arrivals' on these shores from Europe when they had the chance. That is what 'I' think.

That said, we try to make 'amends' for the transgression of being here. . . and yet we have some 'ANGRY WHITES' that want to abuse and subordinate everybody-including the natives for their benefit alone.

I think the SCARE TACTIC of falsely (without little to no evidence whatsoever) accusing immigrants of lacking wanting assimilation and not wishing to be loyal to our mutually shared country (which again is a scare tactic) demonstrates a fear some MAGA supporters have of immigrants—legal and illegal.

Question: Why do MAGA supporters always look at the 'dark side' and fear people for being. . .people? 

MAGA supporters took it upon themselves to police illegals committing crimes of varying sorts and degrees. . . and then when that did not excite the masses quickly enough MAGA supporters decided to harass decent, law-abiding, immigrants waiting for asylum and naturalization.  And do not pretend that MAGA supporters want more immigration from all over the world. . .because we have heard loud and clear Trump wants 'lily white' immigrants, lacking in diversity by the way, to migrate from their 'perfect' home to fill up the 'holes' in our society he is causing!

Question: In MAGA supporter eyes. . . When was the United States ever GREAT without immigrants of all stripes being allowed in and to stay here?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.20  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  CB @4.1.19    10 months ago
at said, we try to make 'amends' for the transgression of being here.

Lol. No one alive was involved in what happened 500 years.  No one alive is responsible for the acts of the British, French, Dutch and Spanish governments, and certainly don't owe amends to people who are either descendants of the conquistadors or have zero relationship to what happened hundreds of years ago.

Do you owe amends for acts your ancestors took 500 years ago?  Chances are, at least some of there were terrible monsters by contemporary American standards. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.1.21  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.20    10 months ago

Looking back and delving into history is the reason we bother to RECORD it in the first place (as these times we are presently in will be documented accordingly for the same purposes) so as not to repeat the same or near same set of blunders, and pull out of history the GOOD that mankind ought to do moving forward.

In my comment, I put amends in single quotes for a reason. . . deal with it. And do not always take what MAGA supporters imagine to be 'bait' or an easy way out to focus a diatribe. . .  .There is an ENTIRE message there if only MAGA supporters would be open to debate.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.22  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  CB @4.1.21    10 months ago
as not to repeat the same or near same set of blunders,

Exactly. Which is why you have to wonder people who know history urge America to commit what they recognize as blunders.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.1.23  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.22    10 months ago

That is MAGA supporters'  worldview (Case in point: Steven Miller and Pat Buchanan and 'spin bitches'). 

Criminals are unwanted here. Send them back or imprison them. The Native Americans welcomed an emptying of more or less criminals and the wretched poor ('shithole' individuals according to MAGA supporters) and, I guess 'some whites were 'good' people' (sound familiar?) from Great Britain to what is now our mutually shared shores. 

Of course, the 'lily whites' did not bother to leave. . . Britain. . .because it was 'Great.' They just wanted to boot the nation's 'losers' - give them a boat and let them float away. Sound familiar to the point of this article yet?

Honest immigrants escaping persecution, conforming to the rule of law (something not even all citizens of this country do), seeking economic uplift, and religious freedom ought to be welcomed here. Especially when they assimilate.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.24  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  CB @4.1.23    10 months ago
The Native Americans welcomed an emptying of more or less criminals and the wretched poor

Completely false, particularly in NEw England..

e. Send them back or imprison them.

So another ICE supporter.  Good. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.1.25  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.24    10 months ago
Criminals are unwanted here. Send them back or imprison them. 

Completely false or 'conditionally' false? Were their criminals and wretched poor coming out of England into the colonies or not?! Yes or No.

Stop using scare tactics, abusing, and deporting good immigrants despite how they arrived here, MAGA supporters. That will be GOOD. Then, look to receive the support MAGA desperately craves!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.26  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  CB @4.1.25    10 months ago
Were their criminals and wretched poor coming out of England into the colonies or not?! Yes or No

That, of course, is not what you claimed.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.1.27  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.26    10 months ago
The Native Americans welcomed an emptying of more or less criminals and the wretched poor ('shithole' individuals according to MAGA supporters) and, I guess 'some whites were 'good' people' (sound familiar?) from Great Britain to what is now our mutually shared shores. 

That is what I wrote in its entirety to the period. So prove the point you are attempting to assert.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.28  sandy-2021492  replied to  bugsy @4.1.15    10 months ago

Calling out Biden's dementia while ignoring Trump's is hilarious.

Also hilarious that Trump the white guy with all of daddy's money making his life easy, and having "the best words" and being a "stable genius", had to get his Nobel Prize secondhand from the Latina woman from a 3rd world country.  DEI, lol.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.29  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.16    10 months ago

US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

...

A majority of the deportations in fiscal year 2024 involved migrants apprehended by border officials compared to those ICE arrested in the US interior.

Roughly 82% of the 271,000 immigrants deported that year were arrested by border agents.

I didn't complain about an open border because the "open border" was a lie.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.30  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.29    10 months ago

omplain about an open border because the "open border" was a lie.

It's great when people light their own credibility on fire. The Biden admin was literally cutting down barriers to let unvetted immigrants into the US.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.31  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.20    10 months ago

Ah, it's good to see that you believe that present-day nations not be held responsible for any flaws of past governance. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.1.32  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.20    10 months ago

The citizens of this country (The U.S.A. formation up to today) derives from 250 years of history. The citizens of the United States were responsible and should be held accountable for not freeing the slaves left over from the American Revolution. And then, there is the U.S. responsibility for permitting the sickness to fester in Jim Crow for 90 years and currently a rehash of it when the GOP openly attempts to put a large swath of its citizens back into those old, tired, boxes held over from the past ("Make America Great Again) history of this country.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.33  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.30    10 months ago

Ah, yes, enforcing the law and making it possible for border patrol to do their jobs.

From your link:

the Biden administration sent bulldozers to lift razor wire Texas put up to stop illegal crossings.

DHS countered that the injunction barred CBP agents from doing their jobs of apprehending, inspecting and processing migrants who have illegally crossed the border pursuant to the federal Immigration and Nationality Act. It argued that CBP agents cut or remove wire to apprehend illegal migrants who are then sent to another location for processing. If the Supreme Court upheld the appeals court injunction, federal CBP agents would be unable to enforce U.S. immigration laws and “guard against the risk of injury and death, matters for which the federal government, not Texas, is held politically accountable.” In an unsigned order, the Supreme Court vacated the injunction 5-4, with Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Amy Coney Barrett joining Justices Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor and Ketanji Brown Jackson for the majority. Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh would have kept the injunction in place.

The federal government controls the border, not Texas.

.

Control of the
Nation’s borders, including the entry and exit of noncitizens, has long been the exclusive province of the Federal
Government. See supra, at 2–3; see also Chy Lung v. Freeman, 92 U. S. 275, 280 (1876) (“The passage of laws which
concern the admission of citizens and subjects of foreign nations to our shores belongs to Congress, and not to the
States”)
 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
4.1.34  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.5    10 months ago

owning Greenland would be good for the US.

Well then, so it shall be.  And since owning my neighbor’s home and all of its contents would be good for me, I’ll just walk on over to thank him for all he has done for me in the past, and pay him fifty bucks for it.  In case he has a problem with that, I’ll tuck a pistol in my waistband.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.35  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.33    10 months ago

Perfectly Orwellian...

, enforcing the law and making it possible for border patrol to do their jobs.

They go to court (that's a choice, they legally could have let the fence  stand ) to tear down barriers that keep illegals out and gives and lets them access the country, unvetted and not at the legally approved border crossings. Millions of illegals do, not to mention the millions more the Biden admin invites to enter after tearing up the policies that kept them out.

And to claim intentionally removing fencing to make it easier for illegals to cross at unsanctioned crossings makes it "easier for the border patrol to do their job".  How can anyone make this argument with a straight face?  Impossible to imagine who lived the through the Biden administration believing the admin's policy was not to let in as many migrants as possible after the initial fear of Covid wore off.   

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.36  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.1.34    10 months ago

How much did we offer for Greenland? 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
4.1.37  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.36    10 months ago

Does not matter how much you offer someone for something that is absolutely not for sale.  That is theft.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.38  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.35    10 months ago

At the same time, reports have indicated that the wire has been making it harder for the Border Patrol to do its job, serving as a barrier not only to potential border crossers but also to the federal law enforcement officers tasked with policing the international boundary. The razor wire limits the latter’s freedom of movement, often blocking gates they use to rapidly get to the Rio Grande and keeping them from reaching stranded asylum seekers for hours or even days. [34]  Facing these obstacles, Border Patrol agents started cutting through the wire with shears to reach people in danger and carry out other responsibilities.
 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.39  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.1.37    10 months ago
ot matter how much you offer someone for something that is absolutely not for sale.  That is theft.

Well, at least you aren't even pretending to use words correctly.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.40  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.38    10 months ago

Even better.  Anonymous "reports" from a Soros funded illegal alien advocacy group supporting the removal of barriers.

Shocking!

 
 
 
Freewill
Junior Quiet
4.1.41  Freewill  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.29    10 months ago
I didn't complain about an open border because the "open border" was a lie.

While I agree that calling it an "open border" during the Biden Administration is a gross exaggeration, there had to be reasons for the number of unauthorized immigrants within our borders skyrocketing to14 million from 2021 to 2023, and even more in 2024 .

512

The number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States reached an all-time high of 14 million in 2023 after two consecutive years of record growth, according to a new Pew Research Center estimate. The increase of 3.5 million in two years is the biggest on record. Data from 2023 is the most recent available for developing a comprehensive and detailed estimate.

Through early 2024, the overall unauthorized immigrant population continued to grow at a record pace, according to a Center review of preliminary and incomplete data sources. After mid-2024, policy decisions spanning the Biden and Trump administrations again changed this population. Growth slowed considerably in the last half of 2024 after the Biden administration  stopped accepting asylum applications  at the border and  paused parole programs .

One of the stark differences between the time period from 2021 through 2024 and now is the number of undocumented immigrants who were released into the US.  I asked Google AI to summarize that and this was the response:

Summary of Migrant Releases (2021–2024)
  • Direct Releases at Border:   Over   2.3 million   migrants encountered at the southern border were released with "Notices to Appear" (NTAs) in immigration court.
  • Parole Programs:   Approximately   2 million   additional individuals were released through specific parole authorities, including programs for Afghan and Ukrainian refugees, and the CHNV program (Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Venezuela).
  • Got-Aways:   An estimated   1.7 million   "known got-aways" entered the country without being apprehended by Border Patrol

That contrasted with the last 8 consecutive months where the CBP reports zero (0) undocumented immigrants have been released into the US borders since the previous "catch and release" type policies have been eliminated/replaced.

While this does not mean that the borders were fully "open" under Biden, there is clearly a reason why the numbers of unauthorized immigrants increased dramatically under Biden's policies and were then completely halted within several months of the new administration, don't you agree? 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.42  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.40    10 months ago

The fact of the matter is that what Texas did was illegal, according to a conservative SCOTUS. The federal government controls the border, not the states.

You can make all the claims you want, Sean.  The facts don't agree.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.43  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.42    10 months ago

The facts don't agree.

yea they do. You just have to get them correct.  The corut  didn’t say the fence was illegal, it said  Texas couldn’t prevent Biden from destroying fences that kept illegals out. The choice to keep or destroy the fence and let in unvetted illegals was up to Biden.  

Biden literally chose to destroy fencing to keep the border open.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.44  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.43    10 months ago

Texas taking the border into its own hands was illegal.  That's why SCOTUS put it back into the hands of federal agents, whose jobs were impaired by the razor wire.  Those are the facts.  The fact that you don't like them is irrelevant.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4.1.45  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.44    10 months ago

Again, Biden had the choice to keep or destroy the fence erected by Texas. He could have accepted the generous help from texas., he chose to destroy it and keep the border open.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.46  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.45    10 months ago

The "generous help" wasn't so helpful.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.47  JohnRussell  replied to  Freewill @4.1.41    10 months ago

It appears that 2007 under Bush the total was 12.2 million and in 2023 it was 14.1 million. I dont consider that to be an appreciable difference. It was 10.2 in 2019 under Trump. Maybe if had built the wall it wouldnt have happened /s. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Guide
4.1.48  sandy-2021492  replied to  Freewill @4.1.41    10 months ago

Biden clearly was not opposed to removing people. He was removing hundreds of thousands, so why did higher migration mean more releases? What were the logistical obstacles to Biden increasing removals as much as arrivals? There were essentially three factors:
  1. Mexico’s willingness and capacity to accept returns.
  2. The administration’s capacity to detain and remove people.
  3. The willingness of other countries to accept removals.

In early 2021, when some migrants were being released, Mexico’s willingness and capacity to accept expulsions was the main factor. As President Biden   stated   in March 2021, “They should all be going back, all be going back.” Why weren’t they? Biden   explained : “Mexico is refusing to take [some families] back.”

If the Biden administration had changed policy, it would have affected the entire border. Instead, families were released in a single sector: the Rio Grande Valley in Texas. Here’s why: in November 2020, Mexico   passed   a new law effective January 11, 2021, that required Mexican state governments to provide housing and care for child migrants they encounter. Mexican immigration service officials decided how to implement the law   on January 22, 2021 , and within two days, all the shelters in the Mexican state across from the Rio Grande Valley sector (Tamaulipas)   were filled   up.

Biden did not sit on his hands about this situation. By February 9, he had  opened  a new tent detention facility to hold families longer. In April, he  opened   three   more . He increased Border Patrol detention by 12-fold from January to July 2021. ICE  began to fly  families on “lateral removal flights” to California and Arizona to expel them to Mexican states with the capacity to receive them. These actions started to increase the expulsion rate for families by mid-February. By early March, Biden  negotiated  a deal with Mexico to accept more families in exchange for vaccine access. However, new arrivals quickly eclipsed Mexico’s higher threshold and the Border Patrol’s increased detention capacity.

...

Biden had a much more significant complication for his goal of closed borders than Central American families—namely, immigrants from outside of Mexico and northern Central America (Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador). The deal that Trump struck with Mexico on Title 42 did not allow for the expulsion of immigrants other than these four nationalities to Mexico. The only way that they could be expelled is by air to their home countries. 

More problematically still, several countries, including Venezuela and Cuba, were refusing to accept deportation flights from the United States, making it   impossible   to remove them.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
4.1.49  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.39    10 months ago

Which part of my basic truth is triggering you?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
4.2  Ozzwald  replied to  JohnRussell @4    10 months ago
Trump wants to destroy or end NATO.

That is one of his failed goals (as given to him by Putin) from his last administration.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
5  SteevieGee    10 months ago

Anybody who thinks that attacking our staunchest allies is a smart thing to do is a fool and an idiot.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  SteevieGee @5    10 months ago
ho thinks that attacking our staunchest allies is a smart thing to do is a fool and an idiot.

Good thing I advocating buying Greenland through progressive approved democracy. Migrants! They are the answer. 

Sending a measly 50,000 migrants across borders is no big deal. For Greenland to be bothered by it would certainly enrage American progressives. It's morally wrong for a country  to deny tens of thousands of illegal migrants  entry. And to shoot military aged men landing on foreign shores is an unthinkable  crime against humanity.  I've been told this repeatedly by progressives. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1    10 months ago

[deleted][✘]

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
5.1.2  CB  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1    10 months ago

Sounds like the Europeans landing in the colonies; needing help to exist; and then taking over the land through varying means. Nope, Greenlanders won't like that (infection) idea! Better to stay to themselves. . . and healthy!

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1    10 months ago

I advocating buying Greenland

Just think how thrilled they will be to spend all that money joining our awesome healthcare system!  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1.4  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.3    10 months ago

to spend all that money joining our awesome healthcare system!  

It's amazing how much Americans hate having access to the best healthcare in the world because the rules put in place by democrats make it unwieldly, more expensive than it needs to be and sometimes unfair, as all sytems are.  

Much better we have shitty health care that is "free" because other people pay for you to not to be able to access it, huh? There's nothing liberals love more than causing everyone to suffer. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.5  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.4    10 months ago

And you want to force innocent pawns into a system that you know to be “unwieldly, more expensive than it needs to be and sometimes unfair”, instead of just focusing on fixing those problems and not actively working on becoming the earth’s biggest pariah.  What a fucking joke you guys are.  Just blame the democrats for everything and march off of the cliff.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.1.6  Snuffy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.5    10 months ago

Sounds like you've forgotten it was Obama's ACA that included a federal fine for anyone who did not have health insurance. It was the following administration (you know, 'those guys') that eliminated the fine in 2017.

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
5.1.7  Hallux  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.4    10 months ago
It's amazing how much Americans hate having access to the best healthcare in the world

America has the worst maternal outcomes of all developed nations; that's why America has the best healthcare system? OK ...

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.8  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Snuffy @5.1.6    10 months ago

Sounds like you are fine with telling the entire population of Greenland that their healthcare will no longer be free and will likely become the most expensive thing in their budget overnight, so that you can “own a lib” on social media.[✘]

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.1.9  Snuffy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.8    10 months ago

Hate to break it to you, but their healthcare is not free now. It's paid by the taxes they pay into the government.[✘]

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.10  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Snuffy @5.1.9    10 months ago

LOL.  Now they can just pay the US tax man and get two more jobs to afford US healthcare.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5.1.11  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Snuffy @5.1.9    10 months ago

Snuffy, it has been paid by part of our taxes since 1966 and when you spread the cost over the number of taxpayers, and adjust it as to the income level of the taxpayers (i.e. the rich pay more, the middle majority pay less and the really poor pay nothing) the amount of the tax varies accordingly and makes it a drop in the bucket for everyone - so EVERBODY gets healthcare and NOBODY goes bankrupt because they need it.  Once when I was in Florida I got the flu, went to a dcctor there and I was reimbursed for the cost by my government, and if a type of healthcare service that is needed is not available in Canada, the expense of it elsewhere is reimbursed.  I never had a problem with it, although I've heard that these days wait times are in some cases too long.  Wealthy people who have to wait longer for something that isn't immediately necessary sometimes will choose to go to the USA even though they are not reimbursed, and I know that that is an argument against Canada's healthcare used by Americans who put down Canada's healthcare.  As well, once I became a senior citizen (65) I only had to pay a minimal pharmacy dispensing fee for ANY prescribed medication once I had paid an annual $100 registration fee.  You got anything like that there?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.1.12  Snuffy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.11    10 months ago

Yes I know that the Canadian healthcare system is paid by part of the taxes you guys pay. My comment was a reply to Hal who posted..

Sounds like you are fine with telling the entire population of Greenland that their healthcare will no longer be free 

My reply was that the healthcare system in Greenland is not free but similar to Canada (and most of Europe) as it's paid by the taxes the government collects. Not sure why anybody is arguing this simple fact as we all know that taxes go in part to help pay for the healthcare system. Got another little nugget for people, the healthcare system here in the US is also paid in part by the taxes we all pay to the government. 

As a 65+ citizen here in the US, we have Medicare which is "free" but paid in part by taxes collected. I have a Part D plan for medication that has a zero dollar premium and thanks to something that Biden did my out of pocket for the year for meds is only $2100 this year. 

As for your line of 

so EVERBODY gets healthcare and NOBODY goes bankrupt because they need it.

Yeah, that would be wonderful. Problem is that is not how the system is set up here in the US. This all goes back to the end of WWII as all the solders were coming home and expecting to restart their jobs. And the employers could not provide raises to these returning workers as the country was still paying back the cost of the war so businesses came up with the idea to provide health insurance as a benefit in lieu of more money in the paycheck. It worked very well in the beginning but it also became a moneymaker for the companies that sprang up to handle the insurance paperwork. The government at the time was not able to set up a healthcare system due to the debt from the war and the lack of desire to increase taxes to build a new healthcare system. 

So this is the system that we have, for better or worse. We could move to a single payer system similar to Canada but it would require a large sum of money and time to build a new system while still supporting the existing system. It would require Washington to work towards that but as we have all seen, Washington is too beholding to the two political parties and will not do the work to create a new system.

And for all the people who talk about just make it Medicare-for-all, that won't work. We saw that during Covid where hospitals were required to stop all elective procedures and the only money they received was from the government at the Medicare/Medicaid rates. Those rates are too low to cover all the costs and there were many rural hospitals that closed their doors as they could not afford to stay open. We have the experience from the Covid years, it just doesn't work. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.13  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Snuffy @5.1.12    10 months ago

By your logic every road is a toll road.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1.14  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.8    10 months ago
g the entire population of Greenland that their healthcare will no longer be free

Lol. Do you think Santa gives people free "health care?"

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.15  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.14    10 months ago

Do you consider every road to be a toll road?  Your semantics are exhausting.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1.16  author  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.15    10 months ago

I've never in my life claimed we have  roads built for free  to claim we have a better road system than other countries. 

Claiming other countries have "free healthcare" is either disqualifyingly ignorant or an intentional attempt to mislead the ignorant. 

You want government healthcare? The middle class is going to pay a lot higher taxes and every healthcare worker is going to take a severe pay cut. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.17  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.16    10 months ago

Yours is an exercise in semantics.  Obviously every universal healthcare is funded with taxes, duh.  The point is you show up and don’t pay for services rendered on site.  You don’t get a medical bill, or surprise billing.  You don’t budget for a medical procedure.  You don’t go without health insurance because you can’t afford it.  You know all of this, just like you know that the road you use to get to the doctor is paid for with gas tax and other tax methods, and that nobody ever makes arguments about how expensive it is to drive on roads.  You make this argument wrt universal healthcare because you have no other argument to make.  We have at least three members here who benefit from “free” healthcare systems and you don’t hear them whining like you (the guy who has never experienced it) about how terrible it is.  They rave about it.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.1.18  Snuffy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.17    10 months ago

And this is a perfect example showing you didn't read and understand 5.1.12. 

In 5.1.12 I explained how our system of healthcare came into being and also explained why we cannot just pivot to a Medicare-for-all system right now. All you've done is complain about the existing system without any suggestions on how to improve it or how to change it. If you're not willing to discuss how to improve the system and if a universal healthcare system is that important to you then I suggest you move to a country that has it. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.19  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Snuffy @5.1.18    10 months ago

Republicans are the morons who yammer on about their solution, so vacuous that we aren’t allowed to know the details of.  You have every branch of government you need to take charge of the situation yet all you have managed to do is strip healthcare away from millions.  It’s like you’re not satisfied with bankrupting your constituents, you really just want them dead.  What the loss of insurance doesn’t kill, you’ve got RFK as a backup assassin.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5.1.20  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Snuffy @5.1.12    10 months ago

I'm sorry about America's healthcare problem - seems to be the only civilized Western nation that has such a problem.  But for a smile I've got a little personal story about one experience I had.  When I was in my 50s I had a problem with my right knee and I needed a relatively simple operation that I believe was called a debridement.  Apparently it does not require in most cases more than a day of hospitalization.  It was done at a small hospital that was run by a pair of Hungarian doctors.  I was asked if I was up to leaving that day or staying another day for recovery.  Although I could easily have gone home, I stayed the extra day because the hospital food was so damned delicious I didn't want to leave.  Of course it cost me nothing (more than that small tax portion I gladly paid annually). 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
5.1.21  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1    10 months ago
Good thing I advocating buying Greenland through progressive approved democracy.

Well, if all it takes to take over another country is to buy it, and it's up to the US as to who it buys, why not buy Russia? Or maybe we should make North Korea an offer they can't refuse? Why do we have to try and bully our ally into letting us buy them if buying countries is such a grand idea?

Let's face it, buying Greenland was never something any Americans thought about and wasn't something anyone with more than half a brain would even contemplate. Sadly, the US is currently being run by the lobotomy brigade and brains are considered a dangerous liability so they're being purged as we speak since the dumb ass elected by dumb asses is trying desperately trying to be the smartest man in the room.

These braindead MAGAites are trying their best to make Einstein's quote come true:

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones,". - Albert Einstein

They're trying to dumb down the human race and take us back to the stone age where they'll feel like they're the smart ones again.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.22  JohnRussell  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.1.21    10 months ago

Trump gave away the game a couple weeks ago when he said he doesnt want to have to defend Greenland unless we own it.  Of course he doesnt mean "we", he means himself.  He doesnt want to defend Greenland unless he owns it and everyone involved tells him how great he is. 

He specifically said the US has to own Greenland for psychological reasons. Whose psychological reasons is he talking about?  His own of course. 

========================================================

copilot

🧭 What he said Trump told the NYT that taking ownership of Greenland was “psychologically needed for success” — meaning that, in his view, formal ownership provides something that military access or treaties cannot. Reports emphasize that he framed it as a matter of psychology, not strategy or law.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.1.23  Snuffy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.19    10 months ago

One again it's shown that you do not read and understand a post before you comment a reply. 

Republicans are the morons who yammer on about their solution, so vacuous that we aren’t allowed to know the details of.

That was more Trump than all Republicans but don't let that stop a broadbrush rant.

You have every branch of government you need to take charge of the situation yet all you have managed to do is strip healthcare away from millions.

Two things.

1) Your failure to acknowledge how Congress works continues. While the House can pass with a simple majority the Senate cannot not and the Republicans do not have 60 seats in the Senate. The last time any party held a 60 seat majority in the Senate was back in the 111 Congress (2009-2010) and was the Democrats who held that majority. Without a majority, you should know that a single party cannot pass a law by itself. With the divide between the two parties, it's normal for each side to refuse to work with the other side without "special" considerations. 

2) You call me a Republican, but you have no idea what I am. I've said numerous times on this board that I am a registered Independent. 

And lastly, once again instead of actually responding to a comment by perhaps making suggestions that could resolve the issue all you seem to want to do is argue. Well in that regards you win as it's just not worth my time trying to have a conversation with someone who only wants to argue. You have a wonderful day but I'm done with you.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.1.24  Snuffy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.20    10 months ago

Yeah, I'm not really happy with the current state of healthcare here in the US. There are parts of it that are excellent, but the health insurance companies are run by MBA's who are more interested in ROI and shareholder revenues than in servicing the people. And these same health insurance companies all have their lobbyists in Washington to "work" with Congress to ensure the cash cow doesn't dry up. They are not the largest spenders on lobbyists in Washington but they have experience which also helps. The system could be fixed but it's unlikely that Congress will be willing to do it on their own (foxes guarding the chicken coop comes to mind) and as long as people continue to reelect their people or continue to vote party line because they always have, I don't see much changing in what remains of my life.

I think everyone has a story about healthcare experiences. Mine actually comes from a friend. About 10 years ago she had to have her gallbladder removed. Now here in the states, that's an outpatient procedure. You go in, have the surgery and are back home in only a couple of hours. She's a writer so doesn't have the health insurance that comes from being an employee somewhere so she was looking at costs as well. Turns out it was cheaper to fly her and a friend to Thailand for the surgery. She spent a week in the hospital over there for recovery, put her friend up in a hotel near the hospital, spent another week in said hotel with her friend (and did some tourist stuff) as she had a couple of follow-up appointments and then flew home. Came back from an amazing vacation with some very nice souvenirs. That total cost was cheaper for her than having the outpatient surgery here. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
5.1.25  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Snuffy @5.1.23    10 months ago

That was more Trump than all Republicans but don't let that stop a broadbrush rant.

Is that a serious comment?!  Pray tell, what are Republicans doing to fight their dear leader?  Nothing at all.  At this point if you are defending them they you are definitely one of them.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.2  devangelical  replied to  SteevieGee @5    10 months ago

I'm actually looking forward to protecting the US constitution and ridding america of russian sympathizers in the most graphic ways possible, and we're getting closer to that every day ...

 
 
 
Gazoo
Masters Silent
5.2.1  Gazoo  replied to  devangelical @5.2    10 months ago

“I'm actually looking forward to protecting the US constitution and ridding america of russian sympathizers in the most graphic ways possible, and we're getting closer to that every day ...”

Lmfao, how about some details?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
6  Nerm_L    10 months ago

Trump could build a ballroom on Greenland for Trump's Blue Balls.  They would be the biggest, bestest Blue Balls the world has ever seen.  Trump's Blue Ball legacy would be un-Presidented.  

Trump obtaining Greenland would protect the US shrimp interests from foreign competition.  Trump's shrimp policy is absolutely necessary for cocktail diplomacy.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
7  Buzz of the Orient    10 months ago

I wish the rest of the world had the balls to unite and turn the tables on Trump, since Trump's own nation  cannot get it together to do so. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
8  CB    10 months ago

As for the expense of being the world's preeminent nation. . . whoever gave the GOP that this country full of diverse people from across the globe could lead the world on the cheap? Sure I get it our country is holding a burdensome debt, but we have politicians that do not perform to balance the national 'books' - that is not the fault of the people whom rely on those they elect to 'do something' significant about long-term issues and problems. 

The United States, a country of people whom love success and the world's admiration. . . needs to understand that if we do not lead from the front. . . we will not lead the world from mediocracy.

If this country has 'exhausted' itself on the world stage. . . isolate itself. We tried isolation twice before and the result inevitably was we were dragged by our national 'short-hairs' back into the world community (even so to protect our own interests during two world wars). Now it is highly probable should the U.S. pull back from its leadership role in the world. . .we could be compelled to fix a 'broken' and wholly fractured world all over again. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9  JohnRussell    10 months ago

....The president apparently got the idea  of annexing Greenland from cosmetic heir Ronald Lauder, who seems to have a special interest in mineral deals both there and in Ukraine, and has been pushing Trump on the notion for years. Lauder offered to be a secret envoy to Denmark to try to make the deal. During his first term, Trump even  floated a proposal  to trade Puerto Rico for Greenland, as if he were playing marbles on the playground. At the time it was just another one of his kooky ideas that went nowhere, largely because the people around him were able to give him another shiny object to chase. But Trump obviously has never forgotten it, and over the past year he has shown a pathological determination to dominate the Western hemisphere, starting with his obsession for  turning  Canada into the 51st state, his  recent incursion into Venezuela  and, now, his renewed threats against Greenland, which have ratcheted up in the last few weeks. 

Trump claims that the United States has to have Greenland for national security purposes because the Arctic is under threat from Russia and China. The U.S., he has said, must possess the island in order to prevent them from taking it. But his administration is not the first to notice Greenland’s strategic value, which is why there have been friendly treaties and agreements regarding it between Europe and the United States for many decades. As a semiautonomous Danish territory, Greenland is protected by  NATO , which would not only marshal the U.S. military to respond to any attack but would also rally the alliance’s other 31 countries. 

If the U.S. or Trump’s pals want to make deals for mineral rights, they are free to do so. There is no reason that anyone other than Greenlanders themselves must “own” the island. But as Trump  told the New York Times , he feels ownership is “psychologically needed for success” — whatever that means — so he is determined to either get the people of Greenland and Denmark to give or sell the island to him, or to take it by force. Anything less than U.S. control, he  said , is unacceptable. 

To the Greenlanders and the Danes, Trump’s psychological need to own their country sounds like something out of a sci-fi novel, and it is obviously non-negotiable. 

Even though this is yet another looney episode of the Trump show, the consequences could be grave. As the Atlantic’s Tom Nichols  wrote , European leaders are taking the president’s threats very seriously, as they should. He is clearly out of control and capable of anything right now, including simply  issuing a late-night declaration  that he has taken over Greenland and dares Denmark or anyone else to say otherwise. Trump believes he can mold reality to his will, and during his decade spent variously as candidate, president and former president, he has learned that he can get away with anything.
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @9    10 months ago
."The president apparently got the idea  of annexing Greenland from cosmetic heir Ronald Lauder, who seems to have a special interest in mineral deals both there and in Ukraine, and has been pushing Trump on the notion for years. Lauder offered to be a secret envoy to Denmark to try to make the deal. During his first term, Trump even  floated a proposal to trade Puerto Rico for Greenland, as if he were playing marbles on the playground."

Trump's theory is why pay for something we can take for free.  He doesnt want the tech sector to have to pay the owner of the precious metals for them , he wants them to pay him.