Column: Why Biden should hope that Trump pardons himself on the way out the door
By: Doyle McManus (MSN)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Column: Why Biden should hope that Trump pardons himself on the way out the door
As the days count down to Jan. 20, President Trump, who has rarely seen a norm he couldn't break, may be tempted to break just one more — and pardon himself before he leaves office in case he is later prosecuted for federal crimes.
If he does, many Americans will react with outrage.
But a self-pardon by Trump, odious as it might seem, could also be a backhanded gift to President-elect Joe Biden, by instantly removing pressure on the new administration to mire itself in a divisive legal pursuit of the former president.
Biden faces a genuine dilemma. A bedrock principle of American democracy is that no man is above the law, not even a president. But if Biden were to move quickly to prosecute the man he just beat in an election — a man who shows every sign of planning to run again — the result would be a partisan brawl that would end Biden's hopes of restoring a measure of bipartisanship to Washington.
But federal prosecutors in New York and elsewhere have long been looking into allegations of illegal contributions to Trump's 2017 inauguration and other financial irregularities. Former aides to special prosecutor Robert S. Mueller III have said the president was guilty of obstructing justice by interfering with their investigation.
"I believe that [federal prosecutors] have no choice," Vice President-elect Kamala Harris said in 2019. "The president is not above the law."
Still, for a Biden Justice Department, prosecuting Trump would come with plenty of problems.
Fairly or not, it would look like "victor's justice." Democrats condemned Trump for encouraging followers to chant "Lock her up" about Hillary Clinton; it would be hard to justify "Lock him up" as a substitute, however much more Trump might deserve it.
Investigating Trump would continue the vicious cycle under which the Trump administration investigated former President Obama and his aides for purportedly spying on Trump's 2016 campaign (charges that have never been substantiated).
If the Biden administration subjected Trump to prosecution, Republicans in Congress would race to defend him, if only to maintain the support of loyal Trump voters.
And it would be a divisive, all-consuming spectacle that would get in Biden's way as he sought to pass legislation and implement his agenda.
"The arguments on both sides are extraordinarily powerful — and not reconcilable," Donald B. Ayer, a former top Justice Department official under President George H.W. Bush, told me. "Can Biden make progress on his agenda if the whole country is focused on the prosecution of Donald Trump?"
Biden has carefully avoided making a choice.
"I don't think anyone's above the law," he told reporters in August.
On the other hand, he said, it is "probably not very … good for democracy to be talking about prosecuting former presidents."
So, he said, he would leave the decision up to the Justice Department. "In terms of saying, 'I think the president violated the law ... prosecute him,' I will not do that," he said. "That would be up to the attorney general to decide whether he or she wanted to proceed."
A pre-pardoned Trump might help Biden navigate the dilemma by making it difficult to proceed with a prosecution.
While it's unclear that a self-pardon would be valid — it has never happened before, and it collides with the bedrock principle that no man can serve as judge in his own case — the move would guarantee that things would be messy. The first step for any prosecutor would be overcoming the former president's contention that he is invulnerable to federal prosecution.
And that issue, says Norman Eisen, a former counsel to House Democrats in Trump's impeachment who is now a fellow at the Brookings Institution, "would end up in the Supreme Court pretty quickly."
That would be the Supreme Court in which Trump just installed a 6-3 conservative majority.
Eisen's advice: "Let the states go first. Their investigations are already underway." And a federal pardon doesn't cover prosecution by state or local prosecutors.
Biden might be able to avoid the divisive decision about prosecution entirely by letting, say, New York go first. In any case, Trump appears to be in greater danger there than from federal prosecutors.
The Manhattan district attorney is investigating his family real estate firm, the Trump Organization, on allegations of bank and insurance fraud. And the state's attorney general is investigating whether he claimed improperly inflated deductions on state tax returns.
Trump faces potential civil legal problems as well. He owes millions of dollars to banks that have held back from suing him while he was in the White House.
The cost of his still unsettled federal tax audit could exceed $100 million. Tax cases are pursued, at least initially, in civil courts, not criminal cases; a pardon won't relieve him of his obligations to the Internal Revenue Service.
Congressional committees will remain free to investigate him as well.
In short, Trump's retirement is unlikely to be overly comfortable even if he doesn't face a federal indictment.
So go ahead, Mr. President, and pardon yourself. Secure your place in history as one of only two presidents who felt they needed pardons because of the potential criminal charges they faced. Sooner or later, we'll probably see you in court all the same.
This story originally appeared in Los Angeles Times.
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Interesting take.............enjoy.
As a reminder, Trump lost the election. Let's keep the conversation free from the past and anticipate the road ahead. No bashing of either he nor Biden.
A self-pardon would be a first in US history. It's never been done and is it legal is the question. I've listened to some constitutional scholars over the past couple of weeks and there isn't a consensus on the subject but one thing is certain, it would create a unique crisis in the US.
We will be in uncharted waters.
How so? Serious question......................
Unique in the sense that it's never been done before and crisis in that the Constitution isn't exactly clear on if it can be done. If Trump does it (which I think he will) it will more than likely end up before SCOTUS. If that is the case the intervening time before SCOTUS makes its call will have the country in an uproar.
If a self-pardon is allowed to stand then we have violated the ''no one is above the law'' mantra that is expressed daily.
Of course, he would still have to face state charges if a state decided to prosecute him. No self-pardon there.
It can basically make a sitting President essentially above the law. No matter what crime a President commits, a self pardon amounts to a "get out of jail free" card.
Accepting a pardon is part and parcel with pleading guilty for the crime you are accepting the pardon for. Joe Arpaio discovered this when he accepted Trump's pardon.
For Trump to pardon himself would be the same as Trump saying that he has committed crimes while POTUS, but that he is above the law. For Trump to issue himself a "blanket" pardon, would indicate that he committed multiple federal crimes when in office.
There is the other concern, that if Trump is allowed to pardon himself, what would stop him from walking out, shooting all his political adversaries, and then pardoning himself for multiple murder charges?
I have serious doubts that he can pardon himself. As you pointed out, it would put the president above the law and no president is. If presidents can pardon themselves, we might as well remove the possibility of impeachment because impeaching a president would be pointless.
A pardon would only get him out of some federal hot water. There are enough pending lawsuits and broken laws that a PP would not protect him.
Yes, but a self pardon would effectively nullify the application of federal laws on the President.
And would effectively make any President above the law.
and equal to any foreign diplomat an American soil....
Which means POTUS could violate the law anywhere in the world. Do you think that was the intention when the Constitution was written? It would put POTUS level with any dictator.
I'll go along with any federal pre-pardons on 2 conditions. 1) a detailed list of offenses that the pardons are for, and 2) permanent removal of secret service protection and any other retirement benefits due the office.
You mean crimes. That being the missing ingredient. Claiming the President was a Russian agent didn't work out too good did it?
I think we'll be seeing the unredacted version of the Mueller investigation very soon.
LMAO!
You already have....what remains redacted is personal identity info, sources and methods, etc.
It would be a broad brush preemptive pardon. I doubt that is even legal. How can a PotUS pardon himself of alleged crimes that have yet to be formally raised? I cannot imagine a constitutional trick that allows a PotUS to declare: 'if I am charged with any crime, I immediately pardon myself'.
One constitutional expert said exactly that but when asked if he actually committed a crime and then pardoned himself the conversation took a turn to, it's never been tested and would end up in SCOTUS.
I do not think there is enough time left for this scenario to occur. Also, it makes sense that prosecutors would delay bringing charges until after Jan 20 to prevent this scenario. Private citizen Trump cannot pardon anyone.
Without a doubt that is true so that leaves the blanket self-pardon without charges being brought. Is it feasible that he would try that, IMO it certainly is.
He could pardon himself and take the next flight to a country that does not have an extradition treaty with the US.
... like russia, oh wait, there's some people there that don't like getting stiffed on bad debts and have a very different definition of settling out of court.
More like Venuzuela....they don't have an extradition treaty with the US.
meh, a little too close. there's a lot more windows to accidentally fall out of in moscow.
1 catch to that, Trump himself is undoubtedly aware of what crimes he has committed that have not been discovered yet. He can try to pardon himself for those crimes, despite there not being any current investigations.
The way he is acting he deserves whatever comes!
The answer to the question is obvious. The haters of Trump want to punish him and have said so. They are bent on criminalizing their opponents to begin with.
Says the people that chant lock them up....
That's a generalization. I'm not the people that chant lock them up.
Try not to make it personal.
Like your comment wasn't a generalization? Please...
Are you not a republican? Are you not a donald fan? Did they not chant for people to be locked up?
Sure go against the grain of the people who supposedly want to unify..........from the seed.
Ok, Lets play:
Are you not a democrat? Are you not a Trump hater? Did democrats not say that third world banana republics prosecute their opponents?
Biden never lead any chants of such.
Didn't say he did. Nor should he. It was stupid for Trump to do and even more stupid for Biden and those who support him to follow those footsteps. "Well he did it" isn't a viable argument in this case for the supposed "higher ground" folks. In fact, it would be bullshit. They would be emulating that which they disdain. NOT a good look
Ya, Biden is such a decent guy that he repeated the lies about the President calling military personnel "suckers."
So decent that he allowed himself to be used as a vessel to win an election. Now hard left democrats are telling him who to appoint.
Why is everything always you all just hate poor donald. All I am getting out of this is accusing others of what donald has already done.
Contrary to how some may believe, not all think a certain way.
donald spent years going after his opponents with wild accusations and lies. He has gone after people that were not 'loyal' to him. It was there for all to see.
From what I have seen and heard, Biden has no intention of going after donald.
And what does that mean? Is that supposed to be the reason to have Joe Biden serving as president? How about where he takes the country?
BTW, Biden doesn't have to go after Trump. Others will. Just look at the comments on this page. Somebody should have told Barr and Durham when they said they wouldn't be investigating Obama that it was a one sided game.
And from what I have seen, Biden has never followed in those footsteps.
Do I think he is a crook? Yes I do. Yet it seems those in higher office are above certain laws. Just like those in congress that barely got a slap on the wrist for insider trading.
As was said elsewhere, let the states prosecute him if they have anything.
It's a little late for that or does that now only apply to me?
I'll be glad to delete my comments along with all the taunting progressive ones...I'll leave it to you...What do you say?
I could ask the same...what does that mean. Biden was elected to get donald out of the office. Most people recognize that.
PROVE IT!
Prove what? That I Think he is a crook? How does one prove thought....
Of course I could go back to all the small business he shafted during his career.
the fact that he's considering a pardon for himself is proof enough.
I do love honesty.
So from your perspective that was a win. If he is really the moderate the dems dressed him up to be and if he can hold power and that all remains to be seen, maybe he will govern as a Bill Clinton. On the other hand, you might just end up with a progressive agenda and that would be a Win/Win for you. Either way it's only temporary.
Please refrain............thanks
You know what I meant. Prove he is a "crook" as you call him.
I'd say you consider every comment contrary to trump is taunting. do as you wish.
No evidence? After 3 years of investigating his every move?
And Weissmann wants to investigate him forever & ever!
That's really disgusting
Taunting aside, you and others were bashing
Him winning the election was...wait for it...a win.
All presidents are temporary....
Ok, "we go high!" I got it!
The small business owners Trump never paid in full
USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills
Donald Trump casts himself as a protector of workers and jobs, but a USA TODAY NETWORK investigation found hundreds of people – carpenters, dishwashers, painters, even his own lawyers – who say he didn’t pay them for their work.
"Temporary occupants of the White House" as Douglas MacArthur once said...
However
Some like "Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America" as Barak Obama once observed!
Do you recall what Trump said about that?
Example:
I recall having an extension to a back porch many decades ago. In the contract, it stated that the construction company would not get paid extra if they did not finish on time. I had to rely on that provision because they still wanted extra money for the extra days.
Now that donald is going to be out of office, Reagan is a hero again?
Funny....
Yep, trickle up continues to work for the few...
Says the 'man' that still insists he won the election.
I guess he doesn't need to pardon himself then ...
Back to a personal attack?
Ronald Reagan, beyond being the Gold Standard for Conservatives, was truly one of our best Presidents. That of course, was a different time. The Greatest Generation was, for the most part, still with us. It was an age of reason. I was simply noting the compliment that Barak Obama gave him.
Donald Trump on the other hand began a movement. He actually taught us certain things, like, what it is that divides us. That dividing line is the coastal elites with their "education" (which is not intellectual in nature) and the working (muscular) class. We the people are aware of it now. Whether or not he returns is no longer of consequence. The movement will find a new leader.
Which is what I think Biden has said he wants to do. He doesn't seem to want to get wallowed down into past actions. He should look and move forward.
Now getting congress on board, that is another issue.
Personal attack? Hahaha
Reagan was considered the right wing God for years. Then with the advent of donald he was thrown on the back burner. Now that he is out of office I see people going back to the Reagan meme.
I just think it is comical. People can be fickle.
The idea of the 'coastal elites' is not a new concept. That has been in play for decades. Donald did not bring that out.
You don't know the difference between Conservatism and Nationalism? I understand.
The idea of the 'coastal elites' is not a new concept.
The term by itself? It's been around for a while. They are a class created by Globalism. It's the fact - that it's class, not race that divides us - that you missed.
Moving the goalpost? So now it was between conservatism and nationalism...
"Coastal elites" is a myth. A meme created to justify voting patterns.
Not everyone on the coast is rich.
And why in the world are you bringing race into this...
He may have done more than that. It has reshaped the GOP. There are still Conservatives, but the Republican party is now primarily the party of small business and working class people of all stripes.
The conservative faction is and has always been an important counter-balance to the more liberal agenda, particularly when discussing fiscal responsibilities.
That faction lives but it is, as you described it just a faction, along with the pro-gun people and the pro-lifers.
Nationalism, however, and in its original definition, serves no agenda other than its self-serving agenda of division, distrust, and eventual decline. Elitism then becomes but another dog-whistle to support that agenda.
I disagree. Nationalism means just what the name implies - putting the interests of one's nation first. Nationalism went out of favor after WWII when Europeans who had suffered dramatically from two World wars blamed Nationalism and began to embrace internationalism, (the EU) which led to globalism. The economics of globalism enriched certain groups and impoverished others, as I pointed out before. In the US it benefited Silicon Valley and Wall Street and destroyed many industries in the heartland. Those whom it benefited refuse to give up their enormous power. (The people of the UK wanted out of the EU and look how they've been punished. They won't finally be out until January.) Many hard working Americans have seen the light. Nationalism is back!
When we are left arguing which faction is doing the dividing, we may have already passed the point of reconciliation.
We have and as Lincoln once said we must become one or the other.
Building alliances is always a part of national interest. Some are long term based on common values like the US alliance with the UK and Israel and others are temporary out of necessity like the alliance between the US and the Soviet Union during WWII. Every nation's foreign policy should be based on what benefits it's own people.
We all share the same planet, but what good is a climate agreement if all sides don't take equal measures against pollution?
A nation can lead, but only after protecting it's borders, it's interests and it's identity.
Vic, you know your statement is a lie..
Biden will leave that up to the agencies affected by Trump. He will let them do their jobs. The new AG is going to have their hands full.
You have got the market cornered on selective hearing. He said he was a loser because he lost his bid for POTUS and Trump raised, according to him, a million dollars to help him out and lost the election. Therefore he was a loser. At mark 1:42. Made NO reference to him being a loser due to military service. All he said was "He's a war hero cuz he got captured" and loser had JACK SHIT to do with his time in the military.
JFC Ozzy......................SMMFH
Trump also demeaned McCain for being captured. "He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured."
This was a highly significant event for me in assessing the character of Trump. Trump avoided serving; McCain stood tall. What an asshole!
Thanks for admitting that he said it.
Trump also lied about McCain graduating last in his class at Annapolis in this video.
Trump also lies about his own graduate rank from Wharton which was far from the top ten...
Good thing Joe Biden never does that... Oh wait.
Trump barely graduated, as he was too busy chasing and raping underaged girls to study. But, good 'ole dadums was able to make sure he graduated.
Not even close. The Times told the lie, not me.
Yep. And if they cannot find something, they may be more than capable of trying to invent something just prove their point.
Exhibit A: Alexander Vindman.
Bingo!
For nothing more than beating Hillary. To them, that is enough for the death penalty.
They'll never forget Hillary. What did she say? Never concede....
Who's been calling for the death penalty for trmp? There's been plenty of conservatives calling for death against people who've been telling the truth like Krebs....
Where did I say they actually called for it?
Most liberals would rather get rid of Trump one way or another, no matter the positives he helped bestow on this country the past 4 years.
Many libs have zero problem erasing those positives just to get rid of Trump.
Your words. Who have you heard wanting the DP for trmp?
I haven't read any comments here or heard on radio or TV that liberals want him given the DP.
They've taken this article and twisted it away from what it actually says. This article is about Trump possibly self-pardoning himself before leaving the Whitehouse.
So Bugsy, Texan, and VIC, here is the question related to the article.
If Trump has committed crimes, do you feel he should be able to avoid proper criminal punishment by self-pardoning???
Don't strain yourselves trying to avoid answering the question, it is simply yes or no.
There is one thing you forgot or neglected to add after "If Trump has committed crimes.." Then add "and incontrovertible proof or evidence has been provided,"
Then you would have a reasonable statement.
No you're wrong. I don't give a crap about "incontrovertible proof or evidence" in this hypothetical case. Your just trying to spin, and the others are avoiding answering the question.
You did not ask me the question. You asked somebody else so direct your rudeness at them.
Good piece, Jim!
I think IF and that's a mighty big if, federal prosecutors bring him up on charges, then Biden should go ahead with a pardon. None of this pointless Ford pardoning Nixon crap. Then Biden is free of pressure on what to do with him and can govern.
However, Biden can't pardon state criminals. Let New York and Manhattan have their way with trmp.
Ya, Jim, this one that has them giddy!
I think biden should right and run the country. let whatever federal agencies are involved in prosecuting misconduct do their jobs. I'm sick of democrats getting big hearts and trying for unity after elections, it obviously doesn't work and it never will with the mindsets being dealt with. democrats need to use the GOPer playbook against them until bipartisan laws are created to prohibit this type of elected office abuse and is eliminated the future.
If Biden doesn't have to get bogged down with the investigations, then ok. But Biden needs to focus on getting this country back on the right track. I'm not suggesting that the Democrats turn the other cheek. It has never worked and will never worked.
I think trmp is more likely to see prison time from state prosecutions
I'm not sure what you mean?
I'm sick of democrats getting big hearts and trying for unity after elections
It looks like you got your wish
... not quite ...
I agree in principle, but it depends on the circumstances.
Which ones?
I do not know the circumstances, that is why I cannot say anything more than agreement in principle. There are certainly conditions where I would want prosecution. For example, acts that would be consider traitorous.
Oh...I would definitely want treason prosecuted. They use give people the death penalty for that.
And they may still do so, depending on the level of Treason, maybe even Sedition.
Individual #1 is a listed unindicted co-conspirator in a case that has already resulted in prosecutions with jail time in the state of New York. The individual convicted in that case gave prosecutors additional details on individual #1 that based on Congressional testimony seems to at minimum include information about bank and tax fraud.
New York Times reporting detailed significant state tax crimes related to the estate of individual #1's father.
A grand jury has heard testimony about individual #1 and courts have ordered the handing over of individual #1's tax documents as part of that investigation. None of this is going away - with or without a federal pardon.
There is so much focus on the pardons, but if the Left were honest, they would admit that the only reason any of the them talk about investigating Trump is because the loudmouthed outsider got himself elected president. None of them cared about anything they want to prosecute him for before that.
Even on his way out, they are still trying to undo the election of 2016, and failing that, punish everyone connected to it.
Trump's been involved in legal disputes going back to the '70's - it's not like he has avoided legal issues up until now. He has been involved in a federal IRS audit that's focused on criminal tax avoidance going back a decade.
New York Times reporting has detailed literally dozens of tax and bank crimes that he, his business, and his family committed going back to the '80's.
I wouldn't be for the government specifically targeting him for investigation other than the fact that reporters have already done the heavy lifting and what is now public knowledge more or less requires a government response - just as happened to John Edwards and many other politicians over the years. If you've got a shady past - no matter what your party - if you want to stick your foot in the ocean of politics don't cry when the sharks show up.
Too bad they refuse to do ANY lifting when it comes to a democrat wrongdoing.
If it has an R next to their name, all the heavy lifting in the world isn't enough.
Well this one went to hell in a handbasket. Thanks to all of you who got the point of the seeded article and participated. As for the shit slingers................thanks for playing.........I guess
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