Democrats offer some harsh reviews of Biden on Afghanistan
By: Aaron Blake (MSN)
You'll notice this is from the Washington Post so of course they had to inject some anti Trump in the first few sentences before letting Mr. Biden have it.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
President Biden on Monday detailed a defense of his administration's chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan that basically boiled down to this: Withdrawal was still the right thing to do, but it was complicated by others, including President Donald Trump and Afghans who refused to fight the Taliban or take our advice.
But, increasingly, that explanation isn't satisfying some top Democrats.
Democrats as a whole have largely hued to the Biden administration's key talking point — on the rightness of the withdrawal. But that's not really what the current debate is about; it's about whether a long-planned withdrawal with long-standing bipartisan support was executed appropriately. And some Democrats are speaking out about the latter issue.
"The rapidly deteriorating situation in Afghanistan reveals a failure to prepare for a scenario where the Afghan government and military would refuse to fight the Taliban's advances when put to the test," Sen. Mark Kelly (D-Ariz.) said flatly in the hours after Biden's speech.
Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Jack Reed (D-R.I.) said there was blame to go around, including for the deal the Trump administration cut last year with the Taliban, and said his committee would hold hearings.
But he also seemed to point the finger at the Biden administration, citing "failures of intelligence, diplomacy and a lack of imagination as we transitioned military forces from the country."
The Biden administration and the intelligence community significantly underestimated how swiftly the Taliban might retake the country and its capital, Kabul, leading to valid questions about whether there was a lack of urgency in the evacuations of U.S. civilians and Afghan allies.
Reed wasn't the only Senate Democratic committee chairman who indicated that this would be scrutinized. While he suggested hearings broadly focused on the years-long effort to get out of Afghanistan, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Mark R. Warner (D-Va.) focused more on the idea of hearings to address what we had just seen in that country.
"I hope to work with the other committees of jurisdiction to ask tough but necessary questions about why we weren't better prepared for a worst-case scenario involving such a swift and total collapse of the Afghan government and security forces," Warner said. "We owe those answers to the American people and to all those who served and sacrificed so much."
A member of Reed's committee, Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), emphasized the immediate need to evacuate U.S. allies but added: "There'll be a lot of time to be asking the tough questions, and I will be as a member of the Armed Services Committee."
These comments from high-profile senators suggest major hearings are in the offing, but some of the strongest Democratic criticism of Biden came from House members — and a pair of military veterans, in particular.
Rep. Chrissy Houlahan (D-Pa.), an Air Force veteran, indicated the administration had disregarded her and others' warnings.
"These past few days have been difficult to process, and not because the Taliban's progress was surprising," she said. "In fact, the opposite. We sounded the alarm, and our dire warnings fell on deaf ears."
Houlahan said she would be "holding accountable those who seemingly misled the American people."
Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Mass.), who served in Iraq, issued a blistering statement Sunday saying: "To say that today is anything short of a disaster would be dishonest. Worse, it was avoidable."
Moulton told CNN that he had been urging the administration to assemble a more robust and instantaneous evacuation plan but that he was met by "silence."
"That has been my distinct clear call to the administration for several months now: You need to evacuate our allies. Sort out the paperwork once you get these heroes to safety," Moulton said. "And they have not headed that call."
In the same CNN report, Rep. Tom Malinowski (D-N.J.) bristled at White House talking points that included suggesting that Afghan allies who haven't been evacuated actually wanted to stay. Biden claimed Monday that they declined to leave because they were "still hopeful for their country." (This despite a lengthy backlog in processing visa applications from those seeing to exit the country.)
"Anyone writing … talking points should get on the visa line," Malinowski said.
These Democrats speaking out remain a small minority of the party's congressional membership. But they include some potent voices and two, in particular, who could play a major role in applying a magnifying glass to just how this went down. In the months to come, we'll find out how anxious they are to wield that magnifying glass.
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Probably just posturing for their constituents.
That's not fair. They make valid points. While wasn't there a plan for a scenario where the Afghan military refused to stand up and fight the Taliban? That was no secret, was it? And not listening to people who had some knowledge of what are the major problems in Afghanistan?
Everybody's angry and rightly so, but at least these Democrats have the balls to come out and question their president. And I applaud them for that.
You're giving me kudos? Why, thanks. I guess I said something smart for a change
Biden inherited a likely impossible mess in Afghanistan but he owns all of the actions taken since January 20, 2021.
The return of the Taliban to power is Biden's responsibility.
Yes, it is. But he has owned it. Publicly. None of the other side is giving him credit for that. They mock him for it. As if taking responsibility for a mess is somehow not manly. I can't find the right turn of words at the moment
Of course not, partisan politics nowadays is 100% unfair.
How? With his "the buck stops here"? He blamed, and rightfully so the same way with the Iraqis practically giving up, the people themselves.
Yes. With his "the buck stops here". The people are to blame. They didn't even try to fight the Taliban. We trained their Army, knowing they weren't going to do the job. I go back to Bush who should have gotten out of there the moment he knew he missed Bin Laden. After that, he had no heart for the war in Afghanistan. He only wanted to pick a fight with Iraq.
Then Obama came along and didn't get the job done. Then trmp. And now Biden. But Biden did it and he can't get a single ounce of credit from you all. He fucked it up, I agree. But even Superman would have fucked it up.
That doesn't sound like he's owning it to me but I see your point.
It would have been a shit show no matter who was in charge when we pulled out.
All the gripes and complaining and blame that I have seen have one underlying theme.
They all think we should be staying there.
No thanks, get out.
Agreed. We should have gotten out long ago.
But think about this..if it had been trmp who actually kept one of his campaign promises....they would be all over it like white on rice and calling him a hero. You know it's true and so do they
Where do you find Biden NOT taking responsibility for his decisions as PotUS?
It is perfectly reasonable for Biden to remind everyone that he inherited this mess.
Or that he wasn't the sole cause of this mess.
Lol, Did you see his speech? He blamed everyone but himself, before acknowledging the reality that he's the President.
If you think that's taking responsibility, you clearly don't know what that means.
You responded to Kathleen's post below explaining what he has and hasn't done. He owns making the decision to pull the troops but NOT the debacle it became.
No one is saying that. That's the Biden false choice.
Either a chaotic, fucked up withdrawal leaving thousands of people behind or staying forever are the only options Biden claims exist.
Several republicans have basically said so...
I read five statements from republicans this morning and they all added we should keep people there.
Whatever they said, the overwhelming majority of criticism directed at Biden is for botching the withdrawal. The idea that" everyone" criticizing him wants Americans to maintain an occupation is simply false.
There are thousands of American citizens left there. Who forced Biden to withdraw the military before they were evacuated? When did he take responsibility for that? Do you believe the troops should have been withdrawn before civilians?
I was talking about republicans in congress and their statements. Everyone I heard thought we should stay there in some fashion.
So is it your position that the taliban knew we were withdrawing yet American civilians had no clue...
No, it's not. My position is you first withdraw civilians and allies and destroy sensitive equipment and data. Then you withdraw the troops that protect those things.
Biden's plan was remove the troops first, and then what happens, happens.
I never saw any plan laid out.
As far as the civilians, I would have tried to get out of there the minute I heard the news of withdraw and saw the taliban was advancing.
Why are/were these civilians not trying to get out before...
Apparently you're not the only one.
I find it hard to believe, we only had about 2,500 troops there and they all left then had to come back and help others...
According to the deal Trump negotiated, the Taliban was going to return to power this year no matter who was the US president. The only way that might not have happened is if Biden ripped up the Trump negotiated agreement.
How is it all Biden's responsibility? Simply based on the calendar?
Read everything I wrote John. Don't just cherry pick two words.
I wrote:
That means prior presidents made mistakes and left him with a likely impossible mess to clean up.
That means that all of his decisions (and subsequent actions) since inauguration are his responsibility.
How could anyone misunderstand what I wrote?
It is his responsibility based on him being in office. The time frame for the Taliban taking over was decided by someone else.
Is there still something about what I wrote that escapes you? Good grief man, what is the problem here?
So, in other words, that is not a completely operable statement. Ok.
I dont know why you are trying to pick a fight, it is your sentence.
Biden has responsibility for the way the withdrawal is being handled, the only way he would have responsibility for the return of the Taliban to power is if he decided not to honor Trump's treaty but the Taliban somehow achieved power anyway.
John, he inherited a mess. How he dealt with the mess is his responsibility. You seem to be implying that Biden had no choices and made no decisions but rather simply let the Afghanistan situation progress on its own volition.
Biden is the PotUS and he most definitely considered the situation and made decisions on how he would handle it. Your argument implies that Biden is an empty suit who had no say in what took place in Afghanistan from January 20th until now.
My comment, in contrast, states facts. Biden was dealt a shitty hand, but how he played it is his responsibility. Simple. Obvious.
WTF does that mean?
The current PotUS is responsible for what takes place on his/her watch. The Biden administration could have decided to prevent the Taliban return to power by taking military action. He chose to not do that. And I am not suggesting his choices were necessarily wrong. But they were his choices and as PotUS he is responsible for the consequences.
In my first comment to you I said that the only way Biden would be responsible for the Taliban returning to power would be if he decided not to honor Trump's treaty.
The way that it turned out IN REALITY Biden is not responsible, any more than Trump is, for the Taliban returning to power. The Taliban returned to power in the aftermath of the US troops leaving Afghanistan in accordance with an existing treaty that was completed before Biden became president. In effect Biden did nothing that wasnt in place when he took office.
I dont mind criticism of Biden but the sentence, "The return of the Taliban to power is Biden's responsibility." is not a completely accurate sentence. The treaty is responsible for the Taliban being returned to power. The treaty was in place before Biden became president.
I would not expect the Taliban to honor any treaty. That just buys them time to plan their next move and opportunity to break the treaty.
Again, you presume that Biden had no choice but to let the Afghanistan situation proceed on its own volition. I disagree. Biden is PotUS and has been in office long enough to have executed plenty of initiatives.
Biden might have made the best possible decision. But whether or not that is true does not change the fact that the consequences are his as PotUS because he alone is the current PotUS.
Blame prior PotUSs on creating a shit situation for Biden to handle. That is fine. But from Jan 20th until now, Biden had the ball.
That is how reality works.
I said no such thing. Rather, I specifically noted that he had a choice. BUT he did nothing , which kept the Trump treaty in place. The Trump treaty is responsible for the Taliban regaining power. Biden has some responsibility based on his tacit agreement with the treaty. Saying he has all the responsibility for a treaty put in effect before he took office is ludicrous.
I have nothing to add.
I just felt like this needed to be repeated.
Some things bear repeating, right?
True. But realistically, I doubt there would have been a different outcome of withdrawal regardless of whomever called for troop withdrawal. The current situation was (unfortunately) inevitable no matter when withdrawal occurred.
Well, if it had been a Republican President in the white house they would have just kicked the can down the road like the past three Presidents have, this was a hot potato no one wanted to get stuck with. So instead of the current mess with America getting out now, it would have taken another five to ten years of wallowing in the sand dumping hundreds of billions into a money pit each year which would have ended the exact same way perhaps a decade later with the Taliban filling the vacuum created as soon as the US military withdrew.
Agreed. No matter who or when the same would have happened.
I liken it to the proverbial "ticking time bomb."
Exactly. And the outcome would be exactly the same.
I said something like that on another seed.... that seems to be the thing to do...
No doubt.
So Biden is responsible for the consequences of his decisions. The return of the Taliban to power occurred 8 months into his presidency.
And if Biden had taken actions to stop the Taliban then the burden on the USA (time, money, lives) would then be the consequences of that decision.
The current PotUS is responsible for the consequences of his/her decisions and the PotUS always is dealing with a playing field formed by the decisions of his/her predecessors.
Correct.
Indeed. But stopping the Taliban probably would have required the US military to remain in Afghanistan, which makes a withdrawal a moot point.
We saw Russia go in and try to control things for 10 years and then had to run with their tails between their legs, now we've witnessed 20 years of US occupation with essentially the same result. Spending another decade isn't going to magically create a better outcome. While it's sad that the country isn't a stable secular nation that is easy to do business with, the US can't be expected to go around the world spending trillions of dollars nation building. We need to get out now and let the people of Afghanistan either confront, fight, defeat or at least diminish the Taliban or try to survive under its Islamic extremist thumb.
Exactly. We've done our part to help them, far more than most. But enough is enough.
We need to stop getting involved in foreign affairs unnecessarily. It's a better use of time, money, and resources to focus on our own country.
Yes. Biden chose to proceed with the withdrawal rather than change direction and renew military actions against the Taliban.
Afghanistan has always been an impossible situation. There is likely nothing any nation could do to help these people short of obliterating the Taliban.
Biden may get flak for it now. But in the long run, he made the correct decision. For years, some people have wondered why we're still in Afghanistan and when we'll finally get out. It's good to see our troops finally returning home. Perhaps that should be applauded more than blaming Biden.
That would have required bombing the country until it was nothing but a giant parking lot.
Yes. But they won't. They just have to heap abuse on him instead.
Standard partisan politics.
Since he is the self-proclaimed expert on Afghanistan was he not aware of the situation in Afghanistan during his campaign? No one forced him to run for President.
Good that he owned his mistakes but he still blamed others in the same speech. Not really a full admission of responsibility for the dire situation there now.
Who says he claimed expertise on Afghanistan? Do you have a source for that dubious statement?
LOL.... really? Do you expect one?
When did he say that?
You don't think others share the blame? That the entirety of the Afghan War rests on Biden?
Do you really think the outcome would be any different than it is now, regardless of whomever calls for a withdrawal?
So what is your point?
Do you disagree that Biden inherited a likely impossible mess?
Do you disagree that all of the decisions made by Biden as PotUS are his responsibility?
Do you disagree that the consequences of his decisions are his responsibility?
What, specifically, is your point? That nobody forced him to run for PotUS? That it is wrong for him to note that he inherited the mess in Afghanistan?
Perhaps to blame Biden because...reasons?
Of course it does, Gordy!
All fucking 20 years of it!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you being serious?
Maybe not Afghanistan specific but........................
" The president also touted his own foreign policy prowess as a longtime chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on the campaign trail."
( She forget the \s )
I figured that was the case. But I just wanted to make sure.
Of course not! You know me better than that...I would hope
But it's not Afghanistan, is it? Stop trying to do your girls' homework for them. Especially when you get it wrong
Yes. But like I said, I wanted to make sure. It's not always easy to tell. Especially for me.
Many times he claimed to be an expert on foreign policy. For petesakes what the hell did he do in Congress?
Where did I say he is to blame for the entire Afghan Conflict? Reading is fundamental.
The strategy and execution of the withdrawal was his decision. I am sure a toddler could of planned it better.
Thanks Jim, sometimes you have to spell out for them.
He didn't spell anything out.
And you really should do your own homework
Then provide a link to back that claim up, as Trout requested.
Then read the first question I asked, "You don't think others share the blame?"
Yes. But that doesn't really answer my question. Do I need to repeat my question for you?
I did
I don't see where Biden is quoted as saying he's a "self-proclaimed expert on Afghanistan."
Share the blame for what exactly? Thousands of American citizens lives in extremely vulnerable and serious danger?
Do I need to repeat my answer for you? I guess I do..
Your Question...Do you really think the outcome would be any different than it is now, regardless of whomever calls for a withdrawal?
My answer...I am sure a toddler could of planned it better.
Calling for a withdrawal and executing one are two different things now aren't they? Biden is responsible for executing that withdrawal. And as I said a toddler could have planned it better. Where was plan B for plan A's failure? Is this how our government operates?
No, you really didn't. You even admitted it wasn't about Afghani politics/policy. It was foreign relations in general
Foreign policy is a bit all encompassing don't you think?
Foreign policy is a generalized concept. But there's a difference on general foreign policy, and expertise on a specific country.