Alabama lawmakers approve education rule similar to Florida's law
By: By Timothy H.J. Nerozzi | Fox News
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S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Alabama lawmakers approve education rule similar to Florida's law
Alabama bill would ban lessons of sexuality and gender identity from kindergarten to fifth grade
The Alabama state legislature has passed a sister bill to Florida's parental rights law that bans lessons or specific discussion of sexuality and gender identity for children from kindergarten to fifth grade.
The bill , which originally aimed to standardize public school restroom and locker room use by biological sex, was amended to reflect the Florida legislation. The amendment was introduced by state Sen. Shay Shelnutt on Thursday.
"We don’t think it’s appropriate to talk about homosexuality and gender identity in schools, they should be learning about math," said Shelnutt, according to news outlet AL.com .
DESANTIS SAYS CRITICS OF FLORIDA’S PARENTAL RIGHTS BILL ‘NEED TO GET OUT OF THEIR BUBBLE’
A government building in Montgomery, the capital city of Alabama.
"Make no mistake, this legislation is part of a systematic and growing attack on trans people, particularly trans youth, in all aspects of life," the Alabama chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union said in a statement .
The state Senate passed the amended bill with a 25-5 vote.
"The passage of this bill sends a message to vulnerable transgender youth that they are not welcome or accepted in their communities," the statement added. "It also exposes school districts and the state to costly litigation and the potential loss of federal funding for education."
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Gov. Ron DeSantis speaks during the welcome segment of the Conservative Political Action Conference in Orlando, Florida, Feb. 26, 2021. (Reuters/Joe Skipper/File Photo)
The Florida bill backed by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis that bans teaching about sexuality and gender theory from kindergarten to third grade is broadly popular despite Democrats' repeated attempts to label it the "Don't Say Gay" bill, polls show.
OHIO LAWMAKERS PROPOSE PARENTAL RIGHTS BILL SIMILAR TO CONTROVERSIAL FLORIDA LEGISLATION
Polls from Morning Consult, Politico, Florida Politics and more show that the Parental Rights in Education bill, which passed the legislature March 8, has solid support, at times even among registered Democrats.
Approximately 52% of Democrat-leaning voters replied that they do not approve such education, with only 36% of those polled voicing support for teaching kindergarten through third-grade classes about sexuality. Twelve percent said that they were not sure.
Thank God there are states that care about our children, and a parents right to teach them about certain things as they see fit, when they see fit.
What exactly are these people afraid of?
They will not be seen as sufficiently meanspirited?
Myself, I wonder what problem people have with passing laws like this. According to most of them it’s not happening at all anyway ...... no problem.
I have answered this multiple times on these seeds. I’ll state it again.
Even though teaching about sex and gender isn’t part of the curriculum for say, K-4th grade, discussion of families is very much a part of those classrooms. Heterosexual relationships and cisgender people are infused throughout the curriculum. They are in story books. They are found in math word problems. They appear in discussions of holidays, school plays, and arts and crafts.
If you are going to continue to do all that, there is no reason why homosexual relationships or transgender people should not be included. In fact, just to educate young people about all the different types of people in the world, they should be intentionally included. We do the same for races, religions, and physical disabilities.
Any attempt to prevent that from happening is an attempt to marginalize a portion of our society.
Opinions on that vary greatly.
Many, myself included, feel that discussion belongs in the home at that age and not in school. That said, parents are going to have to figure that out at the school district level because there is NO WAY the Fed is going to come up with a one size fits all solution.
Oh they’ll try and they’ll just mess it up like usual.
Should we teach them about pedophiles and tell them it is natural and ok?homosexuality and transgenderism is not normal and is not an Ok condition. I don't want some teacher teaching my kid that there are more than two genders. I don't want them that boys can be girls and girls can be boys. Those are not normal in fact I consider both to be mental illnesses and should be treated as such.
How is that related to the current discussion?
What do you mean by “not normal?” They are natural variations in the human condition.
Actual mental health experts, who know better, do not agree with you. It sounds like you need to get educated about this stuff.
First off imo most mental health professional either guess rather than know. Some are any in the business to get professional courtesy for their own treatment.
Trans people are more ill than homosexuals. They are living in a fantasy world where they pretend to be what they are not and can never be. You are born male or female and that cannot be changed. That is reality.
In all honesty, you really do need to do some research on this.
Many many many studies have been done on homosexuality. It occurs in animals and humans. It’s a healthy variation in that it is not caused by any known pathogen, injury, or deformity and it is not comorbid with some identifiable mental illness. It is not in the least bit debilitating, nor does it tend to make a person more likely to commit crimes, particularly sexual assault.
It was, for a time, in the early to mid 20th century, thought by some to be a mental illness because of some extremely sloppy and biased psychotherapy work done decades earlier. Some anti-homosexual bigots still cling to this long ago debunked work that has demonized millions of good people who happen to be gay.
In fact, we are finding that there is no one way to experience sexual attraction. Some people are genuinely attracted to male and female. Some people are completely disinterested in sex with anyone. The only thing this affects is their own personal sex life (or lack of it). It is beyond bewildering to me that anyone spends a minute of their lives worrying about the sexual orientation of other people.
As for trans people, recent studies of the brain show a wide spectrum of brain development related to sex and gender. Scientists have identified brain structures they identify as tending toward male or female, but many people have a mix of these structures that defy a binary classification. They are otherwise perfectly healthy, decent human beings.
For some people, the most effective course has been to live as a gender other than the one assigned to them at birth based on the placement of sex organs. This can be achieved number of ways - sometimes chemically, sometimes surgically. Other people make different adjustments. This is understandably strange to someone who hasn’t gone through it, but that doesn’t justify fear or discrimination. It demands compassion and respect.
There is no one way to be male or female and there is not one way to be a human being worthy of respect.
So does cannibalism and incest. Do you want to make that normal for humans to do also?
So are pedophiles until they engage in sexual activity with minors. Do want to make that ok to?
Yes there is.
Males have a scrotum, testicles a penis and and a prostate gland. They also have an X and Y chromosome in their DNA.
Females have a vagina, a hymen, a uterus, fallopian tubes and ovaries. They also have two X chromosomes.
There are genetic anomalies that give males some female anatomic parts and women have male anatomic my parts but those are anomalies. In other words they are not normal.
You can cut and tuck and construct all the body parts you want and give all kinds of drugs but that will not change the biological/ genetic fact of being make it female.
This is late because I have been in the hospital on and off for the last three weeks and forgot about it. For those that care I had two minor strokes (TIAs) and a moderate stroke. Those of you that thought I didn't have a brain you are now showing that you were and are wrong. For those that think I do not have a heart, I will have you know that I have had a heart valve replacement, a bypass, a pacemaker implanted and 4 stents inserted so I can prove I have a heart too.
Ok, that’s a pretty stupid attempt at equivalence.
Also, pretty stupid.
Not always.
Not always.
Yes they are always born that way unless some injury or disease causes something to be removed.
It is as good as your it occurs in animals comment.
If you believe it is ok for animals to be homosexual and is natural Ok humans, why do you think that canibalism and incest is not OK
Pedophile claim that having sex with children is natural for them and the way they are born, why do you differentiate them from tranies and homosexuals that claim the same thing.
That’s simply not correct. I understand why the average lay person might think that, but I urge you to get educated on the matter.
No it isn’t, because you are trying to equate the state of an individual’s sex, gender, or sexual orientation with crimes perpetrated on victims. They aren’t remotely similar.
It's not? Oh do pray tell how else is one born male or female as long as there is no genetic abnormality. Don't start with the but they think they are a different sex. If that's what they think they are IMO (and I will probably get a ticket for this but I don't care) mentally ill and need extensive therapy not surgery and drugs. And don't give me the BS that they were wrongly assigned at birth. If their plumbing was on the outside they are a boy(male) and if it is tucked up inst they are girls ( female). There is not a big book in the delivery room that they keep track of and refer to how many of what sex have been born and make the appropriate genitalia on the spot based on how many boys they had compared to how many girls. They do not do this:
Doctor: " Nurse how many boys and how many girl have been born here recently. "
Nurse (looking in book): "Wellctor, we have had eleven girl and four boys so far this month"
Doctor: " that isn't enough boys. Put this one down as a boy and call supply to send up a penis, scrotum and testicles for this one. "
You obviously have never seen an intersex baby.
That would be an abnormality.
So, for example, meet Emily Quinn .
She presents as looking very much like a woman. Emily was born with a vagina and testes, but no uterus. Her body does not respond to testosterone. She has a Y chromosome. What is she? Do our typical definitions even apply to her?
She is also very healthy and not at all a pedophile, mentally ill, or some kind of pervert. She is what God made her to be.
But you want to put special controls on her, restrict kids from learning about her, and equate her with cannibals or pedophiles.
As it turns out, what we were all taught in school (do you really think you learned all there is to know about sex and genetics in school?) - that XY chromosome means male and XX means female - isn’t always true. Sex is something like 4% of what that chromosome does. Even the scientists who discovered the correlation between this chromosome and sex cautioned at the time that it should not be thought of as the sex chromosome. Of course, they were ignored on that point.
Whatever Emily might be, it seems to me the most important reaction we can have to her is not fear and judgment, but love and respect.
So is being left-handed or red-haired, but most people have moved on from a need to pass laws protecting children from such people.
She is an abnormality.
No being red head or left handed are not abnormalities. They are variations.in the genetic coding
When is it going to finally occur to you that literally nobody gives a fuck what you think?
Says who? You?
You presume to know a lot, but I bet you didn’t know people have been discriminated against on the grounds that they were left-handed or red-haired.
Discrimination against people with red hair
Two-Thirds of the World Still Hates Lefties
The Long History of Left-Handed Persecution
If this kind of thing sounds insane, then your head might be on at least partially straight. But this kind of foolishness and cruelty always persists because some intolerant, ignorant people decided someone else was abnormal and therefore it was ok to treat them like shit.
Is it your position that it’s ok to discriminate against people if they are deemed “abnormal” by you?
It’s pretty evident you don’t know anything about genetic coding, much less the various issues and scientific inquiry related to LGBTQ people. But again, whether it is a variation in genetic coding or an “abnormality”, how is any of that justification for discrimination and demonization of people? I say it’s not.
When is it going occur to you that I could give a shit what other people think? For people not caring about what I think there are a bunch that are commenting, even you. So you must give "F" about what I think.
When is it going occur to you that I could give a shit what other people think?
That’s been obvious since you got here.
So you must give "F" about what I think.
[Deleted]
In order for you to insult me I must first value your opinion. I don't! But it was a nice try.
You could use the same chart to describe the amount of time teachers spend actually talking to kindergartners about sex.
If it is not now being taught in schools now is the time to pass laws to keep it that way.
Then having a law against it should be no issue.
We also don’t teach 7 year olds how to make a nuclear weapon, commit rape, drive a car, or a million other things. It’s not necessary to make laws prohibiting these things. So what is it lawmakers are really afraid of?
That’s not the only thing law does, the fact that you posted that graphic says you believe somebody wants to to do it.
Since we agree that merely “teaching sex” to kindergartners is neither appropriate nor actually happening, then it’s time to admit that the law is really about other things - like acknowledging that gay or trans people exist in the world.
I guess you haven't heard about New Jersey's new law or about the school district proposing to teach about sex to the earliest grades have you?
Good, then a law preventing it from happening doesn’t hurt anyone.
That doesn’t tell me what the proposed curriculum would be. It does tell me it’s only a proposal and not actually happening.
You still haven’t addressed what it is lawmakers (or you) are afraid of.
You still haven’t addressed what it is lawmakers (or you) are afraid of.
If you read the legislation, you will see that they were afraid that some school districts were providing mental health services without notifying parents.
As I mentioned elsewhere just now, that is not why people are upset about the law.
What’s the problem with that? They very well might feel that way. And if they do, it will likely be a great relief to find out it is something they should talk to someone about and something for which they could get help and support. Furthermore, enlightening the rest of the class will help them to have empathy for someone who is different from them. That’s a good thing.
Bringing it up isn’t suddenly going to give someone gender dysphoria.
What in the law are they upset about?
This part:
The feeling is that we will go on continuing to reference heterosexual parents and relationships, or cisgender people in the curriculum, but if anybody has a different situation, teachers won’t be allowed to talk about it. So the kid with a mommy and a daddy gets to talk about his family, but the kid with two dads has to be silent.
Kids feel encouraged by reading about people like themselves, whether it’s an issue of skin color, religion, physical size or disability. Maybe they have a non-typical family structure or feel like they might be trans. We should be able to talk about all kinds of people, not just the type that make social conservatives comfortable.
We should be able to talk about all kinds of people, not just the type that make social conservatives comfortable.
I agree.
the kid with a mommy and a daddy gets to talk about his family, but the kid with two dads has to be silent.
A first grader talking about his family isn’t “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties.”
The law encourages vigilante witch hunts that will make life extremely more difficult for kids from alternative families and especially for teachers in legal same sex relationships...
It creates a minefield for all teachers fielding unpredictable questions from kids who are old enough understand that sometimes Mary has two moms or that Mr Smith is married to Stan!
Define what is and what is not "Instruction" because that could be understood as making it a firing offense for a teacher to explain the most basic of things in the most innocent of ways about legal families in America today!
I’m not an attorney, but clearly a child that starts describing their family isn’t school personal instructing a class.
A first grader talking about his family isn’t “classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties.”
How so?
Why would you think that a 1st grade book about Timmy with two Dads needs to discuss sexual orientation or gender identity?
If people have no objection to such a book, then I am glad. But I would not be surprised if a student asked how a kid could have two dads.
And you think that a conversation on gender identity would likely follow?
A teacher defending that child from bullying by explaining things in the most innocent of ways in ther classroom could get them fired!
Give us an example of the explanation that you are worried about.
Will And Grace has been playing in reruns on daytime TV for thirty years. By kindergarten kids today are aware of alternative lifestyles.
Figure it out. You aren't incapable of doing it...
You aren't incapable of doing it...
Doing what? Guessing what is causing you angst? Why would I even try? Have you even read the 7 page legislation that you are concerned about?
Will And Grace has been playing in reruns on daytime TV for thirty years.
I trust your knowledge of daytime TV.
By kindergarten kids today are aware of alternative lifestyles.
Ok, is that just your observation or is their also a point as it relates to this law?
What do you believe is motivating only far rightwing legislators in only far rightwing legislatures to suddenly impose such laws?
They get to show their base that they are actively doing something even if it is of little consequence. I think any proposed new law should have to meet a stringent needs test.
I disagree, except about trying to impress their bassackwards hateful revengeful gop base that is infuriated by legal gay marriage by passing hateful laws making it a firing offense for public school teachers to explain what are now normal common legal families to children capable of understanding without ever going into anything about any sex acts or describing sexual behaviors. Kids are dealing with it fine. Making talking about LGTB people and families basically illegal in public schools is an infringement on basic freedom of speech...
I disagree, except about trying to impress their bassackwards hateful revengeful gop base that is infuriated by legal gay marriage by passing hateful laws making it a firing offense for public school teachers to explain what are now normal common legal families to children capable of understanding without ever going into anything about any sex acts or describing sexual behaviors.
I disagree with putting 60 words in a single sentence.
Making talking about LGTB people and families basically illegal in public schools is an infringement on basic freedom of speech...
Now you have a SCOTUS case to look forward to.
Yes. A question invites an answer. That can lead to a discussion. It doesn’t need to be graphic or anything, but the concepts will be discussed. What do you imagine would happen instead? The teacher ignores the question?
Who is a deviant or a pervert? Why? What do you mean by “groom?” Speak plainly so we can stop dancing around the bigotry.
No. It might go something like this:
Tommy: I have two Dads.
Teacher: I know, I met both at Back to School night.
Cate: Why does Tommy have two Dads instead of a mom and dad like everyone?
Teacher: Everyone doesn’t necessarily have a mom and a dad. Some kids have a mom and no dad or a dad and no mom. Others might have two moms or two dads like a Tommy. What’s important is that we all have someone who loved us.
How do you think that it would go?
Yellow Card Warning....
You are not allowed to use common sense on a discussion board, you must only use hyperbole and fear tactics to illustrate your talking points....
I think it’s fine, but I don’t expect politicians in Florida or Texas or wherever to think it’s fine. They’ll say you’re normalizing perversion and violating their new law.
Also, I’m not a little kid anymore, but one thing I know about them is that they never ask “why?” just once. You might think your answer will end the discussion, but I doubt it.
“How do you think that it would go?”
Just as it has and should continue to do so. Specious politics aside.
Legislation to try to regulate such interaction will only benefit the lawyers already lined up to challenge and/or defend the same.
Yeah, I’m sure there is a bigotry code understood by all who speak it. But you still can’t say plainly what you mean. That just tells me that deep inside, some part of you is ashamed of it.
Shielding them from what, exactly?
What dogma?
Then you would say that there should be no attention paid to mothers and fathers (as women and men) in school for children of that age?
And you still haven’t clarified your talk of “grooming.”
Good. Then you don’t mind if a kid talks about his two dads?
Who is trying to engage in “sex talk” with kids?
Groom them for what?