Woe to the foes of Christmas

I'm trying to imagine how Santa would dress if Jesus's true birthday was celebrated.  It was around October because his cousin John the Baptizer was born 6 month earlier and we know he was born in April.  Maybe a nice festive sweater instead of a heavy coat.

It was around October because his cousin John the Baptizer was born 6 month earlier and we know he was born in April.

I  always though it was around June.

Scripture tells us that, “[Mary] gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped Him in cloths and placed Him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them. And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night” (Luke 2:7-8). But shepherds were not in the fields during December. Luke’s account suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. In December, Judea is cold and rainy, so it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night. The weather would not have permitted shepherds watching over their flocks in the field at night.

I don't think even Christians know the exact date. They just go along with Dec 25 because that's when the church said so when they assimilated Pagan cultures into their own.

Apparently most dont. It's just funny. Christians worship the supposed "son of god," and probably make a big deal out of his birthday, don't even know when his birthday is. 

I already answered that.

I didn't say I care. People can believe whatever silly myth or superstition they want. That doesn't make it any less silly. And if they want to post their nonsense for all to see, they open themselves up to scrutiny, plain and simple. 

Lighten up Francis!  It was just food for thought and a what if question.

Christians worship the supposed "son of god," and probably make a big deal out of his birthday, don't even know when his birthday is.

Least important thing about Christmas.

Judging by all the fake hysteria every year, the most important thing about Christmas to christians is.............the word Christmas!  Not the supposed values they like to claim (that went out the window way before Trump, but that deal is set in stone now).  Nope,  they get twisted if someone says have a good holiday. 

You're right. The most important thing about Xmas ate the presants, Lol

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but I understand why some people might be bothered by some of the stuff that goes on. 

and lights

Can't forget those. The colored lights too, not the plain white ones.

Social media = people with conflicting viewpoints opine.

But why do you care or is the rub someone believes something different from you so you have to ridicule them as much as possible.

What part of encouraging governments to show illegal favoritism to Christianity did you not understand? That's Christian dominionism - if people like this seeder would stop trying to shove their religion down everyone else's throats, perhaps we'd stop giving a shit.

The seeder and author are also encouraging people to boycott stores that don't favor their religion - great Christian values there - when they'd have a fit if those cities and towns did the same for Islam or another religion. And all while whining about people who boycott different stores for supporting discrimination and persecution. Talk about hypocrisy.

Let's not forget that while they complain abut and want to boycott stores that do not show favoritism toward their religion, they will freak out when a store that operates according to religious whims gets boycotted. Hypocrisy indeed.

Hypocrisy indeed.

Yep, in this same seed which calls for boycotting businesses which aren't openly Christian, we see a rant against people who boycott businesses such as Chick-Fil-A who spend money on organizations which support outright persecution against gays.

I met a woman the other day who is new to our town. Several of us were talking about gay rights and she said that she disagrees, but that's probably because she is religious and from a military family. She was quick to add that she loves everyone. I told her I couldn't imagine supporting discrimination against anyone I loved. Considering our town had the first gay wedding in our state - and the county clerk who issued the license came to the church and attended the wedding - I'm wondering how happy she'll be here. Many of our businesses still have their flags up from Pride Week. Even our Baptist church has stopped being anti-gay and is a much more welcoming and inclusive place, from what I've heard. Since everyone was nice to her even after she expressed those (hateful to me) views, hopefully dialog will continue and she'll end up becoming a better person for it.

If she keeps spouting off anti-gay rhetoric, though, she won't find many people who want to hang out with her.

It's funny, I remember during the whole same sex marriage debate, many religious and/or bigoted types were ranting against SSM, saying it'll bring ruination or God's wrath to the country, or some nonsense like that. And several years later, nothing bad has happened as a result. Your example seems to indicate people are happier overall. Of course, there are those who prefer ignorance and bigotry, often cowardly  hiding behind the shield of religion as an excuse. But as you said, hopefully a dialogue will start to change that.

I wonder how Christ would feel, seeing his followers getting their panties in a wad when people acknowledge that not everyone is Christian and use inclusive language such as "Happy Holidays." Funny how an example of tolerance is so completely ignored by his followers.

Maybe because some of his followers are sanctimoniously arrogant enough to think their religion or belief is the correct one, all others are wrong, or that other people should cater to their religion? Some are even ignorant or deluded enough to think this is a "Christian country" and their religion is therefore paramount. I've actually had people tell me that too. 

The ironic part is that they apparently skipped the part where Jesus said he won't know them. They can't even see that they are the ones Jesus was talking about, while they go around with their sanctimonious false prophecy, pretending to speak for their god.

It's self delusion and/or cognitive dissonance at its finest. Especially when they try to pretzel twist their scripture to address obvious logical inconsistencies with their bible or beliefs. 

Your particular beliefs are specific and you are part of a tiny minority.    A tiny minority that insists that it is right and everyone else is wrong.   And this is not based on evidence or reason, it is just an arrogant belief based on what other human beings have merely claimed as truth.

become more like the people just before the flood and at Sodom and Gomorrah

For someone as religious as you claim to be, it appears you know nothing about your bible.

You do cling to your persecution complex, that's for sure.

We have no need to twist anything regarding our beliefs.

You twist reality to conform to your beliefs almost on a daily basis here.   Anyone who stubbornly deems evolution to be a worldwide conspiracy of godless scientists and who flat our refuses to do even basic research on the topic (even videos presented by biologos.org — by fellow Christians who are scientists) has no claim to intellectual honesty.

We know that as the time of the end draws near that we will become more like the people just before the flood and at Sodom and Gomorrah so we know that things like abortion and acceptance of LGBT lifestyle and gay marriage must become more commonplace as well as the repression of true Christian belief.

Well, according to that absurdity, you should be all for abortion, SSM, and repression, as that will bring about this "end" that you want so much. That means your god is coming, right? So why complain about those things?

We have no need to twist anything regarding our beliefs.

Except when logical fallacies or contradictions surrounding those beliefs are exposed.

 The twisting all comes from the vicious haters of our religious beliefs around the globe and of our God

Sweeping generalization, with a hint of paranoia.'

You twist reality to conform to your beliefs almost on a daily basis here. 

And what is more dishonest than that?

 Anyone who stubbornly deems evolution to be a worldwide conspiracy of godless scientists and who flat our refuses to do even basic research on the topic (even videos presented by biologos.org — by fellow Christians who are scientists) has no claim to intellectual honesty

And not to mention is just being willfully ignorant and dishonest, to an extreme.

As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be at the time of the end.  Jesus Himself said that.  So yes at the end just before the second coming the earth will be as sinful then as it was when the flood came. Only in the future it will be fire not water and the refuge will be The New Jerusalem instead of the Ark.  

What an active imagination.

no we resist those things as long as possible in order to have the opportunity to spread the good news around the world until the point that every living human being has heard the message.  

How much time do you need? This is the information age. It's unlikely that no one hasn't heard of Christianity or its nonsense. Besides, if someone hasn't heard your "message," then they're safe by default. By giving them your "message," you might be screwing them over and responsible for them going to hell.

Do you feel like a bigger person for telling others that they believe in what you consider nonsense?

Just because someone believes something doesn't mean the belief itself is valid or not nonsense. Especially when that belief has no logical, rational, or empirical backing, or is otherwise is used to promote willful ignorance or presented as equal or superior to fact.

The internet is ripe with angry and miserable people who have an obsession with those people fulfilled with religious lifestyles

... as one educated in psychology it's profoundly obvious

Might be reaching a bit too far on this one.    You seem to be implying that all (or at least most) irreligious who challenge religious ideas are angry and miserable (and obsessive).   

These same people defend the mysoginy of Islam and other religions.

Where do you see that?   Here?   Are you suggesting that, as a rule, the agnostic atheists on NT challenge Christian views but do not challenge views of other religions?   If so, I would like to see this.

If they were truly tolerant and content in their belief or lack there of they would not be here on this article or the many others like it.

Well clearly those who are tolerant about particular beliefs will have nothing to say about them.    But you presume that challenging views means one is not content in one's own views?    If you challenge the views of a Trump hater does that mean you are not content in your views about Trump?    

Not speaking for Gordy, but I will offer this.   Challenging beliefs is not done simply because they are different.   There are all sorts of things that people believe that are not challenged.   The reason is because the challenges are usually to beliefs that are common and adverse to society (yes, that is a subjective call).

Case in point:  evolution is pseudoscience - a worldwide conspiracy by godless scientists.    Now that is one of many religious-based beliefs that absolutely should be challenged.   That particular belief is promoted by organizations like the Discovery Institute and Answers In Genesis who seek (lots of resources devoted to this) to teach Creationism in public schools as an alternative to evolutionary sciences.   

It should be obvious why that kind of stuff raises a challenge.

You might better appreciate this from a political perspective.   Do you ever challenge political beliefs that you find to be bad for the nation / society?

Sure are lots of words to just avoid answering what was asked.

Yours is a loaded question. It's also irrelevant.

I find what you wrote insulting.

That's your own perception of it. 

Don't imagine I am the only one, either.

Doesn't really matter. 

Why does it seem to bother you so much that other people don't believe as you do?

I've repeatedly stated in the past I couldn't care less what people believe. But when people put their beliefs out there and try to pass it off as fact or in place of actual facts/evidence, then it gets challenged. Case in point: HA has repeatedly stated, both erroneously and ignorantly, that evolution is "pseudoscience" and otherwise false, while creationism is fact. Not to mention he repeatedly fails to address the challenge or support his own position. So, is there any surprise why such notions are challenged, and rightfully so?

Not speaking for Gordy

You go right ahead TiG. I often find your statements and reasoning coincides with my own and I agree with what you post.

That and tell about 7-8 billion people that it is foolish to believe in a God they can't prove to you exists.

Not too long ago virtually everyone believed the Earth was flat.    The fact that human beings believe something based on no or very poor evidence is no indication that the belief is true.

Here is one thing, however, that is interesting.   This is from Pew Research as of 2010:

The current 7.7B people in the world do not hold the same beliefs.   They have very different definitions for God that are not only contradictory among religions but are contradictory among religious sects / branches.   In some cases (as in the biblical God) the definition for God is self refuting (internally contradictory).

What is in common, however, is the belief in a higher entity.   This has been part of humankind for at least all of recorded history.   Thousands of gods have come and gone.

The one thing that we can say is that it is possible that a creator entity exists.   Possible.   But if such an entity exists nobody apparently has any knowledge of this entity.   Lots of imaginative stories, but not a shred of knowledge that can be evidenced.

Ergo, belief that there must be a greater power is reasonable given human nature.   Belief that we know this entity exists, and beyond that to have specific knowledge of this entity (or possibly entities), is arrogant and unsubstantiated.

Finally, acting on that belief (e.g. evolution is pseudoscience, the Earth is 6,000 years old so science is fundamentally flawed, homosexuals are abominations, slavery is okay per the Bible, etc.) is often bad for society.

Seems like all you really want to do is argue the existence of God.

No, I'll challenge any spurious claim made, especially the more outrageous ones or those that are contradicted by actual evidence.

That and tell about 7-8 billion people that it is foolish to believe in a God they can't prove to you exists.

Yes, it is foolish! It's a Bronze Age mentality that humanity has not shaken. And you're statement is also an argumentum ad populum fallacy.

You are always so tolerant and openminded regarding God.

Of course. I've always said show me the evidence for a god and I'll consider it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to accept mere claims for a god, no questions asked or evidence required. As it stands, I have yet to see any empirical evidence forthcoming regarding god, even when requested. 

One can be open-minded about the possibility of a creator entity while challenging all current definitions of same.   Note, there is no evidence of a creator entity but the possibility is not challenged.   What is challenged are specific claims made by religions (by mere human beings) about the grandest possible entity.   The claims of specific knowledge of an entity that is beyond our comprehension is silly unless there is supporting evidence.

Since the question of God is so existentially important and has been for thousands of years, and since this is a really big deal that affects everything, the fact that no evidence exists after all these thousands of years to support the specific claims should give one pause.

Is it possible that nobody has clue one about the creator?   The evidence (lack thereof) for the claims of knowledge tend to suggest we do not know what we are talking about.   The contradictions among the world's religions (and within religions) further suggests we do not know what we are talking about.

The only thing that we can factually say about a creator entity is that it is possible.   Anything more than that does indeed appear to be nonsense.

Lots of whining about other members but never, ever a reasoned rebuttal to their arguments.

Cannot think of a good rebuttal (understandably) so instead attack the individual.

One would think that repeated failure to defend one's claims would cause one to maybe rethink one's premises.

Lots of whining about other members but never, ever a reasoned rebuttal to their arguments.

And probably never will be either.

One would think that repeated failure to defend one's claims would cause one to maybe rethink one's premises.

Not when one has convinced themselves they are right and all others are wrong.

"Rational faith" is an oxymoron. The rest of your tripe is nothing more that your own belief. You certainly have nothing factual or ifor substance to back any of it up.

God though the great deceiver will impersonate Jesus and show all sorts of signs and wonders that many if not most of the world will believe.  

I see an example of a great deceiver right here. Jesus would not be happy.

I'm trying to imagine how Santa would dress if Jesus's true birthday was celebrated.

The whole Santa saga would have to be changed. No more reindeer, no more sleigh, he'd have to be on a big Clydesdale carrying a huge sack and a massive axe as he rides through the creepy woods ala Sleepy Hollow, bringing children the sweaters and warm clothes they'll need to survive the coming winter. His midnight ride would end with him reaching the manger to fight off Samhain who was just about to snatch the baby Jesus. Santa slices off Samhain's head preventing him from harming the baby, but the undead headless corpse begins to pursue Santa, riding its own giant black horse, holding it's smoldering head in it's hands. And Santa leads the headless Samhain to the North Pole where he is lost for the winter and won't be able to return till next fall. Ties together all the old pagan holidays into a new neat little bow and would be far more accurate as to the date of Jesus birth. Sure, the rest of it's all fantasy, but isn't that what the current Santa tale is anyway?

Now that's a good Xmas tale, Lol

But people in the 2000''s still believe and worship silly things like god/s. Go figure.

Now that's a good Xmas tale, Lol

And a Merry Santaween to you Sir!

Why thank you good sir

if modern people want to pretend christmas

No one is stopping them. The above annual hilarity of some thin skinned complainers proclaiming a fantasy "war on Christmas/Christians" can no longer generate the guffaws and out loud laughs. It's been mitigated to smirking glances or become so uncomfortable many people start to look away in sadness or concern thinking to themselves "Somebody should help them, right?". But they never say anything for fear they'll be attacked as a vile heathen unbeliever who isn't validating the cross these bad actors are pretending to bear of some fantasy attack on their holiday that is fricking everywhere in every corner of American society for over two months every year. But no, they're the ones under attack! Anyone with more than half a brain can see the tearful claims of victimhood are a hilarious fraud.

So worship Christmas whenever you want, I gave you a whole new October narrative if you want, but stop pretending that Christmas or Christians are "under attack" in America. Of course, striving to keep every religious faith in their lane whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. per the constitution and separate from secular society is not a "war on Christians" or Christmas, it's merely upholding our founders ideals and American law.

I will say, your narrative is much more interesting and entertaining than the current one. I wonder of your Santaween narrative can be made into a movie directed by Tim Burton? Lol

I have a tradition I have tried to follow over the years.  I go up to the mountains near me, break out a glass of wine, raise it up, and say "Happy birthday Boss."

The whole Santa saga would have to be changed. No more reindeer, no more sleigh

How does that make any sense? Do you imagine that the Middle East is covered in snow in winter? Do you really think they resort to reindeer and sleighs in Israel? Everything about Santa's ensemble is about where he is from, not about when or where Jesus was born.

Everything about Santa's ensemble is about where he is from, not about when or where Jesus was born

Awww, shoot holes in my fantasy fictional narrative with fantasy facts about other fantasy fictional narratives eh? Low blow! Low blow!

Johnny Depp would make an excellent Samhain.

I could see that. Kind of like a reverse version of The Nightmare Before Christmas.

Or a reverse "Sleepy Hollow"

That too

I'm trying to imagine how Santa would dress if Jesus's true birthday was celebrated.

I kinda figure Santa dresses the way he does because of where he lives.

Good point.

I kinda figure Santa dresses the way he does because of where he lives.

I am not sure where he'd find red dye up there, though. I'm guessing it's too cold for the types of creatures we get that dye from. So the red suit strikes me as a little off.

Doesn't dye come from plants?

 "It's designed to educate and, if necessary, litigate to make sure that the religious viewpoints and Christian essence and themes are not censored from Christmas. So we provide educational resources about what can be done -- what cities, counties, government entities, schools, and even facilities for senior citizens can do with regards to Christmas."

As long as the fairy tale that "Jesus was born on Christmas" (despite even what the bible tells them) is pushed and all others censored they are good with it.

As long as the fairy tale that "Jesus was born on Christmas" (despite even what the bible tells them) is pushed and all others censored they are good with it.

It's no wonder why some raised as Christians eventually begin to doubt.

They're told until they're about 8 years old "Santa is real, he brings you gifts if you're good all year, and baby Jesus was born in a manger long, long time ago on December 25th which is why we give you kids presents to make you appreciate Christ being born only to give his life for us later at Easter."

Then they're told "Well okay, so Santa was a lie. Your mom and I have been buying the gifts. No creepy old guy in a beard is watching you all day, unless you count God, cause he's really real and does exist somewhere, but not the north pole, all that Santa stuff was a lie. Oh, and Jesus was probably not born anywhere close to December 25th, that was just a reused pagan holiday we decided to keep celebrating because 'we're such good Christians!' Yeah! That's the spirit!".

I guess the more surprising fact is that so many still stick with it even after their parents and peers admit they've been lying to them for years. It's a testament to the power of tradition and nostalgia, and desire to believe no matter what the traditions are based on.

"so they can exercise their decisions accordingly."

"Here's what they do, and here's what they do ! Please support the company of your " Choice " !

I like it !