Buzz of the Orient

How do you feel about effective guidelines to beat the virus

Voting has Ended

There are many attitudes about what could or should or must be done to contain the virus in order to regain as much of a normal a life that would be safe.  The wishes of thenewstalkers' members could be considered a microcosm of American feelings about that, since the vast majority of NT members are Americans.  Please indicate what YOUR attitude is, by voting.  Mailed-in ballots are not acceptable, as they would take much too long to be delivered, and then counted.  Contrary to Trump's wish, the system permits voting only once.  Which of the four choices do you agree with?  Just click the little circle to the left of your choice, and then click the "vote" link below the circles.

TOTAL LOCKDOWN would still permit one occupant per residence to shop for necessities such as food and pharmaceuticals or walk their dogs, provided that person wears a mask, is careful with social distancing and washes carefully with proper disinfectant on return.

PARTIAL LOCKDOWN would allow everyone to go out, provided they wore masks and practised social distancing, but still careful to wash with proper disinfectant on return home.  Stays away from crowds

CAREFUL CITIZEN practises their normal activities and need not wear a mask but will when near other people, and will then be careful with social distancing and proper washing on return home.  Stays away from crowds.

INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS FREEDOM ADVOCATE do not change or restrict their usual activities, refuse to wear a mask or social distance. and will mingle with others whether or not they are wearing masks, and will attend crowded events. 

Select
Option
Votes
TOTAL LOCKDOWN
4
PARTIAL LOCKDOWN
8
CAREFUL CITIZEN
9
INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS FREEDOM ADVOCATE
2

Tags

jrPoll - desc
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Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
3  Paula Bartholomew    2 years ago

I say let the kids out of the cages and put IRFA's in them instead.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
2  Mark in Wyoming     2 years ago

because of the personal situation , i fall under the careful citizen  approach

i live alone 

i limit my travel to stores 

 i avoid crowds or large groups of people 

 wearing of a mask is totally dependent on situation using common sense

times not worn would be ,alone on my own property inside or out , driving alone in my car, or when there is a distance of 15 ft or more between myself or someone else.

the reservation went with total lockdown definitions , problem was with that , people didnt do as they were told and abused the exclusions allowed .

the state did a partial lockdown definitions  , closed places most likely to cause spread , jury is out on how effective that actually was because there was again abuses of the exclusions .

hense i chose the careful citizen definition route for myself tailored to my own set of circumstances 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Masters Principal
1  Nerm_L    2 years ago

A total or partial lockdown is impossible.  Utilities need to be operated and maintained, freight and packages delivered, food and supplies need to be produced and distributed, and emergency services need to be continued.  In the United States a total lockdown would only apply to much less than half the population.  That's why the unemployment rate never rose above 20 pct.

A broken air conditioner or furnace can't wait for a vaccine.  Storm damage can't wait for a vaccine.  A heart attack can't wait for a vaccine.  A chronic disease can't be put on hold until a vaccine is available.  

Lockdown mandates affect nutrition and health.  It's not just about incomes.  The lockdown mandates are being used to cover the asses of politicians by shifting blame onto the public.  A governor or mayor has issued a lockdown mandate so any spread of the virus must be the public's fault; don't blame the politician.  That sort of political bullshit won't control spread of the virus.

Yes, the public spreads the virus.  And that means only the public can control spread of the virus.  The appropriate role of government is to provide the public the tools and supplies needed to control spread of the virus.  If the government wants people to wear masks then the government should provide masks.  If the government wants people to use disinfectants then the government should provide disinfectants.  Imposing a mandate doesn't provide what the public needs to control spread of the virus and creates an invitation for profiteers to sell shoddy products at inflated prices.  

People claim that mandates are needed because the pandemic is like war time conditions.  That completely ignores that the public are the soldiers fighting the virus.  And slacker politicians are requiring those soldiers to provide their own guns, bombs, and ammunition.  That's not leadership; that's cover-your-ass political bullshit.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1  Drakkonis  replied to  Nerm_L @1    2 years ago
People claim that mandates are needed because the pandemic is like war time conditions. 

My suspicions is that Dems claim mandates are needed because they want people to get used to the government setting mandates. I think a lot of them dream of having the control China does of their "citizens". 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
1.1.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Drakkonis @1.1    2 years ago

sounds a little orwellian to me . the answer of course is ....THRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP!!!!!.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @1.1.1    2 years ago

Certainly sounds like the 4th category to me.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
1.1.3  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.2    2 years ago
Certainly sounds like the 4th category to me.

in the case of the government getting people use to it setting mandates on everyday behavior without good reason except thats how they decide people SHOULD act  as drak put it 

most definitely would be the forth category , sorry but i will never let the government have THAT much power they can dictate things in the micro management area.

 its just like the up coming vaccine if one is ever really developed , i will be one of those that will politely decline if pushed , they wont like the result.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.1.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @1.1.3    2 years ago
"without good reason"?

Six million infected and 200,000 deaths (and COUNTING) isn't a good enough reason?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
1.1.5  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.4    2 years ago

I am of course thinking and speaking to situations outside and besides the virus/ pandemic . 

 people allowing the government to issue mandates opens the door to many other possabilities where the use of mandates can be abused 

 i cant say i am a really big fan of that  and anything and everything is open to having some sort of "mandate " placed on it after that starts , we simply know them as laws .

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @1    2 years ago

Of course emergency situations or maintaining necessity supplies have to be exceptions to total lockdown, otherwise the lockdown would end up killing more people than the virus. 

How do you explain the numbers difference between the USA and those countries that were quicker and more stringent with requiring the guidelines to be followed, or at least with those countries where the local culture and traditions indicated that persons were more concerned with the collective good and health and safety of others than with individual rights and freedoms?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
1.2.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2    2 years ago

as for the difference in numbers , im watching the resurgence in said countries as we speak , have to wait and see , its all anyone can really do . til then i will make my own choices. and i have stated and explain my choices and why i made them.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Masters Principal
1.2.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.2    2 years ago
How do you explain the numbers difference between the USA and those countries that were quicker and more stringent with requiring the guidelines to be followed, or at least with those countries where the local culture and traditions indicated that persons were more concerned with the collective good and health and safety of others than with individual rights and freedoms?

European countries closed their borders.  The borders with Italy and Spain were closed, as examples.  Closing the borders curtailed travel across Europe so the virus could not spread from country to country.  The United States could not close the borders of New York or New Jersey.

The United States experiences natural disasters that Europe does not experience.  Disaster preparation in the United States involves evacuating people; not requiring people to shelter in place.  The end of the Cold War essentially dismantled the United States' system of Civil Defense that emphasized planning for shelter in place.  (Today people who plan for sheltering in place are called 'preppers'.  Survivalism is disparaged in the United States.)  The early public response was to flee hot spots which contributed to spreading the virus.  That's consistent with public preparations for natural disasters.

The early response in the United States was to emphasize testing which concentrates infected individuals at testing stations.  The sample collectors couldn't change PPE between people because that would dramatically slow sample collection and the first-line medical providers were given priority.  I haven't seen any data but I would not be surprised if a significant number of people were infected at testing stations.

The United States has a large prison population which has contributed to the number of reported infections.  (Prison populations are the ultimate model for a total lockdown.  We know there have been a number of outbreaks in prison populations but those numbers aren't reported.)  The United States also tends to warehouse the elderly which has contributed to the number of reported infections.  Institutionalized populations make up a significant portion of the reported infections.

The United States has also seen outbreaks within work forces doing essential work.  While meat processing plants have received a lot of attention, there have also been outbreaks at warehouses and distribution centers.

The United States also has a large homeless population living on the streets who cannot shelter in place.  In the United States the typical response is to institutionalize the homeless in emergency shelters.

My back of the envelope estimate suggest that about half the reported infections have been in institutionalized populations, the homeless population, and workers doing essential work.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.2    2 years ago

Pity.  The best opportunity to curtail the virus was when Trump was first made aware of it.