The Book Of Revelation
NPR : Can you compare how Catholics and Protestants who are not fundamentalists interpret Revelation, compared to the more "literal" reading of it ?
Jonathan Kirsch (Author, "A History Of The End of The World") : From the very beginning of Christian history there has been an argument over how to read Revelation. Some people are inclined to read it literally, but the mainstream of Christianity, in antiquity, and over the last two thousand years, and in today's world, read the Book of Revelation metaphorically. St. Augustine articulated this idea , in the 5th century it became Church dogma, we are meant to understand the Book of Revelation as explaining the world to us in allegorical terms, what Augustine called spiritual terms. The Catholic Church and mainstream Protestant denominations approach it as allegory and not literal truth.
NPR : "In reading it over and over again as you did in preparation for writing your book, A History Of The End Of The World, what are some of the things you saw in Revelation that you had never seen there before, or new interpretations you had as a result of multiple readings?
Jonathan Kirsch : The single most compelling discovery I made in my own understanding of Revelation is that the author hated above all, the idea that a Christian , or for that matter a Jewish person, could lead the good life in a culture like the culture of Roman paganism. The author of the Book of Revelation hated pleasure, he hated opulence, he hated the good things of life, he hated sex, he hated good food, he believed that the world was going to end imminently, and everyone should get ready for the end by purifying themselves. The "mark of the beast" , that spooky number 666, almost certainly refers to nothing more exotic or diabolical than a Roman coin, which to him belies the medium of exchange by which you bought the "good things" of life, which he thought a righteous person should forego. The mark of the beast is the symbol of an emperor on Roman coin just as we have a symbol of Thomas Jefferson or George Washington on our coinage.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6160167
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I know that XX Jefferson, who seeded some nonsense about the Book of Revelation earlier today, saw this seed , because he made his own comment on another thread at the time this seed was at the top of the board. He drops his incongruous and senseless commentary all over this forum, but is never there to go toe to toe.
Is this seed about XX Jefferson?
It is about ignorance. Where do you stand on the topic ?
Thinking the moon is made out of blue cheese is just more interpretation too.
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"It may come as a surprise but the doctrine of the Rapture is not mentioned in any Christian writings, of which we have knowledge, until after the year 1830 C.E. Whether the early writers were Greek or Latin, Armenian or Coptic, Syrian or Ethiopian, English or German, orthodox or heretic, no one mentioned it before 1830 (though a sentence inPseudo-Dionysiusin about 500 C.E. could be so interpreted). Of course, those who feel the origin of the teaching is in the Bible would say that it ceased being taught for some unknown reason at the close of the apostolic age only to reappear in 1830. But if the doctrine were so clearly stated in Scripture, it seems incredible that no one should have referred to it before the 19 th century.
The lateness of the doctrine does not necessarily mean the teaching is wrong (only the plain statements of the Bible can reveal that). It does show that thousands of eminent scholars over seventeen centuries (including the most astute Christian Fathers and those of the Reformation and post-Reformation periods) must be considered prophetic dunces for not having understood so fundamental a teaching. This lapse of seventeen centuries when no one elaborated on the doctrine must be viewed as an obstacle to accepting its reliability."
It certainly fits how I have always felt about Revelations. As an allegory. Not to be taken literally, like many movie makers and writers have made lots of money basing fiction on it that does. The "Omen" series of films for example.
Neither 'rapture' or 'antichrist' appear in the Book of Revelation. People who actually know what they are talking about say the "mark of the beast" and 666 refer to the Roman emperor Nero.
I said people who know what they are talking about, like scholars. Not religious hucksters.
You've never been right about anything yet, why start now?
For anyone else, the website for the PBS show Frontline has an extensive section on the Book of Revelation and other apocalyptic literature from the Bible.
It's interesting that you think they don't.
Mainstream Christian denominations see Revelation as allegory.
First century historians see it as referencing events that were taking place at the time.
Throughout the past two millenia, various preachers have declared that the "end times" were nigh based on Revelation. They have a 100% record of being wrong. What makes you think your crackpots are any more visionary than the crackpots of the past ?
It's equally interesting to note that you are so dismissive of many of the most intelligent biblical and historical scholars who put the show together.
end time events than Christian Churches do.
Which one? There are thousands and thousands of permutations and even perversions of Christianity that to just say "Christian Churches" is a bit confining, if not outright ridiculous. And they all seem to have a different version of the phony biblical end times. Is the Catholic Church right or the Episcopalians or the Baptists or the Presbyterians or are the hardcore fundamentalists? How about Manson or Koresh or Jones? Were they necessarily wrong? Was "The covenant, The Sword and the Arm of the Lord" right all along? Are they Christians and are their teachings about the end times right or wrong or any more or less valid then any other "Christian" denominations claim to be? This is why Christians are always fighting with each other about what being a Christian is or is not and then claiming that all of their problems are from them being persecuted by non-Christians and secularists. Absurd. They are persecuting each other.
Why has every CHRISTIAN who has ever predicted that the end of the world is at hand, and there have been MANY of them, been wrong ?