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The Right Man at the Right Time

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  singled-out-3  •  7 years ago  •  392 comments

The Right Man at the Right Time

No matter what he does, a large part of the country will never accept Donald Trump as our president. Hollywood will never like him, not that that matters any longer, since the implosion of Harvey Weinstein has shown the entire lot of virtue signaling miscreants to be morally bankrupt.

The media will always be against him. They may have been head over heels for Barry the “lightworker,” “sent to help us evolve,” but it will always be “he can’t do anything right,” for Trump.

The hardcore progressives, around 20% of the population, will forever loathe him and regular “run of the mill” Democrats will never think of him as anything but illegitimate -- that’s been the media’s meme since last November.

Even many “middle of the road” Republicans -- who in essence, stake out positions once held by mainstream Democrats before the party mutated into a hard-left progressive movement -- don’t like him either.

Yet, there is a silent majority in this nation who are willing to give the man a chance to succeed. I know the media are already calling his presidency a failure after ten months, but that was expected.

This silent majority believes in America as something of value, unlike the Democrats, who constantly tell us the country is racist and unfair. Yet, they don’t want to stand up in public, or on the job, or even with friends, because they don’t want to be screamed at, or passed over for promotion, or lose friends over politics. That’s the thing about the regular guy or gal trying to survive in this world. They and their families have bad habits, like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They don’t need drama. They just want to survive.

The difference between conservatives and progressives is that we view progressives as mistaken or misinformed, whereas progressives view us as evil. It’s understandable that most choose to remain quiet about their politics. Who wants to be the evil guy?

Silence may be the requisite tact in this age of snowflakes, virtue signaling, and Twitter shaming, but there will always be elections. In fact, this is why America has always had a secret ballot. It prevents exactly the type of intimidation progressives utilize in the public square.

The Democrats have been decimated at the polls since Barack Obama took the party leftward. The Republicans now control 33 governorships and 32 statehouses including 26 trifectas, which occur when the governor’s office and both houses of the state legislature are controlled by the same party; the Democrats have six trifectas.

Barry had skills with respect to his own election and reelection, but his attempts, in his own words, at “fundamentally transforming the United States of America” devastated his party because, without him, his coalition of the ascendant crumbled.

We also make our opinions known with our dollars. We can choose to spend them on what we want, and choose not to spend them when we don’t want to, as the NFL, ESPN, and Hollywood are just now learning.

We may not want to argue in public but we make our feelings known. I used to go to four or five movies a year, no more, and even though I was never a big ESPN guy, choosing movies and hour-long dramas on cable over sports TV, I would watch it perhaps an hour a week, which now I no longer do. I read and write about politics, I don’t want politics with my sports. Sports have always been an escape, but the progressive harpies can’t have that, they must control everything. As far as the NFL is concerned, in the past, I would never miss a Jets game (I know, stop laughing, this is a serious article), this year, I don’t think I’ve seen an entire game all season.

Donald Trump, however, refuses to be silent, and you have to respect him for it. For far too long, the Republicans have allowed progressives to dictate the conversation. Utilizing this capability, progressives portray anyone who doesn’t agree with them as heinous. With their control of the media and the entertainment industry, anytime someone diverges from the liberal path, he is publicly vilified. No one wants to be the villain, so most Republicans try to never disagree -- at least, for attribution.

Donald Trump is having none of that; he doesn’t care what anyone says, he stands by his convictions and that has long been missing from our elected Republicans. It is said that politics is Hollywood for ugly people. Yet those people want to be famous, just like those in Hollywood. Sixes and sevens all want to be nines and tens. They want to be invited to all the right parties; they want to rub shoulders with George Clooney and Meryl Streep, some wouldn’t mind being groped by Ben Affleck. They want to go on “The View’ and have Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behar fawn all over them and tell them how great they are for being so progressive.

Trump doesn’t care; he has already done that. He already is a star. His greatest asset is his ego because he knows who he is and he doesn’t care what people say. In the past, when the left challenged a Republican, the Republican would fold. You can’t win a war if you are afraid to hurt your opponent, just as Obama’s Rules of Engagement (ROE), where our troops weren’t allowed to fire first (the first war in history of mankind where one side was not allowed to shoot first) was losing the war against ISIS and in Afghanistan, conservatives were losing the war of ideas against the autocratic progressive claque.

As an aside, note how long it took our troops to roll up ISIS when the ROE were changed and Obama’s policy of “pursue and let retreat” was changed to “pursue and destroy.”

Trump is not perfect, but he is the perfect man in the age of Twitter. He tells it as he sees it, and he isn’t afraid to make hard decisions and to be portrayed in the media as a buffoon and a failure. He realizes that even were he to bow to the media as deeply as Obama bowed to every potentate and Islamic dictator in the world, the media would still call him a buffoon and a failure. John McCain learned that lesson, although by how he votes today, not well enough. When he was the “Maverick,” trying to walk the liberal path while still being a Republican, the media loved him because he played their game, but once he ran against Obama, they destroyed him.

Trump bows to no man, and that’s what many like about him because a president should never bow. The United States of America doesn’t bow. We finally have a president who will stand up and fight. He dictates the conversation; he calls out the other side, something a Republican would never do because God forbid, he doesn’t get invited to the latest “in” party. Trump doesn’t care; he’s been to all the “in” parties.

Like him or not, he is the first president, aside from Reagan, who has made any effort to keep his promises -- and he will fight as the left fights. Barry lived off executive orders maintaining that if Congress wouldn’t act, he would use his phone and his pen.

Trump has often criticized Obama for using executive orders exclusively to implement his agenda in the last seven years of his presidency. Now, Trump will use them himself to implement his policies, many of which are a rollback of Barry’s attempt at radically transforming the nation.

Trump is willing to fight the way the left fights. He is willing to get down and dirty and fight in the mud if he has to. When they insult him, he insults back. When they ridicule him, he ridicules back. When they throw a punch, he throws a punch and he is not afraid to throw the first punch either (see the NFL, see the media).

I learned a long time ago that you can’t win a fight unless you’re willing to do whatever your opponent is willing to do.

Trump is willing to use every single weapon progressives have always used.

It’s not only about time we had a president like Donald Trump, it is the right time, because if he fails all is lost for the nation.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/10/the_right_man_at_the_right_time.html#ixzz4veyJFLzj
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook


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XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1  seeder  XXJefferson51    7 years ago

“This silent majority believes in America as something of value, unlike the Democrats, who constantly tell us the country is racist and unfair. Yet, they don’t want to stand up in public, or on the job, or even with friends, because they don’t want to be screamed at, or passed over for promotion, or lose friends over politics. That’s the thing about the regular guy or gal trying to survive in this world. They and their families have bad habits, like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They don’t need drama. They just want to survive.

The difference between conservatives and progressives is that we view progressives as mistaken or misinformed, whereas progressives view us as evil. It’s understandable that most choose to remain quiet about their politics. Who wants to be the evil guy?”

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    7 years ago

As usual great article.

The difference between conservatives and progressives is that we view progressives as mistaken or misinformed, whereas progressives view us as evil. It’s understandable that most choose to remain quiet about their politics. Who wants to be the evil guy?”

I guess I'm more reactionary than Conservative because I don't just think progressives are mistaken or misinformed - I think they are hate-filled thugs who have done considerable damage to American society


 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    7 years ago

That's helpful to the national debate

I see right wing conservatives as woefully misinformed, but I don't see them as evil.

 
 
 
deepwaterdon
Freshman Silent
1.2  deepwaterdon  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    7 years ago

Gave you a thumbs up,X. Mostly for you unerring energy to blast out 5 articles a day, nearly every day. But would hope some times you would post/insert articles that are NOT copied/pasted verbatim from such unintellectually biased rags like the 'american thinker'.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  deepwaterdon @1.2    7 years ago

Sorry deepwaterdon, but while you and everyone else here can seed five a day, I alone cannot.  Thus my name.  Singled out 3. It’s interesting to note that my seeds are so effective that you think there a 5 a day.  I have a variety of groups so they get my attention beyond three and all the mild mannered stuff.  I used to do two hard hitting and three mild seeds a day.  The reduction from 5-3 comes entirely at the expense of mild which is now in my and friends groups.  

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
1.2.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.2.1    7 years ago
Sorry deepwaterdon, but while you and everyone else here can seed five a day, I alone cannot.  Thus my name.  Singled out 3.

And you were singled out because you insisted on seeding 5 a day without attending to them, which left the entire workload on the mods. Please be accurate about what happened. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Have Opinion Will Travel @1.2.3    7 years ago

"Naturally, because American Thinker of course absolutely destroys left wing fukwadism on a regular basis with unassailable logic."

Don't you mean the American Stinker - nothing but 'opinions' and ranting gobbledygook.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.5  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Have Opinion Will Travel @1.2.3    7 years ago

Well said.  The American Thinker rocks!  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.6  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.2    7 years ago

I think I have as many posts to seeds as most anyone here.  It’s not my fault that progressives chose  act out on them even though I ask them to stay on topic.  They gang banged my seeds and they got what they wanted.  It’s not my fault that I still have family living at home and work full time though this week I’ve not been at all well and have been home and here during some of my awake time.  

 
 
 
Elaine Whiteside
Freshman Silent
1.3  Elaine Whiteside  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    7 years ago

President Trump is doing an amazing job reversing the imperialistic reign of Obama that brought American progress to a grinding halt and glorified thugs burning cities and killing cops. I love that Trump can't be bought, he's already wealthier than everyone else and even donates his paycheck - which liberals give him no credit for of course.  I love Trump's old fashioned patriotism and unapologetic love for America and his desire to lead this country to restored greatness. I love that he can't be bullied, he's played the game with all the big league players and he isn't impressed or cowed by any of them. As I reminded people during the nomination process we aren't hiring him to teach Sunday School, we're hiring him to guard the gates of the church and he's doing a fantastic job. I look forward to every day of his 8 year presidency. 

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.1  A. Macarthur  replied to  Elaine Whiteside @1.3    7 years ago
As I reminded people during the nomination process we aren't hiring him to teach Sunday School, we're hiring him to guard the gates of the church and he's doing a fantastic job. I look forward to every day of his 8 year presidency.

Indeed; glad one of you admits that Trump is the guardian of those Evangelicals who want America to be a WHITE CHRISTIAN NATION!

Much of what is wrong.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.3.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.3.1    7 years ago
admits that Trump is the guardian of those Evangelicals who want America to be a WHITE CHRISTIAN NATION!

Why do you purposely misstate what she wrote? You are the one with the race obsession.

.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.4  A. Macarthur  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3.2    7 years ago

Shall I post the extensive information regarding the connection between Trump, Evangelicals and a white nationalist objective?

The "White Christian Nation" paradigm in no mischaracterization on my part. The very open praise of a POTUS guarding the doors of the church speaks for itself.

But say the word and I'll connect the dots.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.5  A. Macarthur  replied to  Kathleen @1.3.3    7 years ago

Again, say the word and I will make the connection between the Evangelical support of Trump and the White Christian Nation Paradigm.

Aside from which, the very idea of the POTUS as guardian of the gate of the church should be alarming.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
1.3.6  lennylynx  replied to  Elaine Whiteside @1.3    7 years ago

While most of the world is properly horrified by Trump being President, it's nice to find someone like you once in awhile, Elaine, someone who just LOVES that Trump is President!  Enjoy!!

  We are SO screwed...

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
1.3.8  1stwarrior  replied to  Kathleen @1.3.7    7 years ago

Well, not quite ALL races go to church.  There are some ethnicities who practice spirituality - not religion.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.9  A. Macarthur  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3.2    7 years ago

Fading white evangelicals have made a desperate end-of-life bargain with Trump

Tip of the iceberg … I'm busy now but I'll bury you with the backing behind my comment!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.3.11  Sean Treacy  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.3.4    7 years ago

AMAC,

Sure AMAC, like a paranoid recluse with newspapers over your walls you can "connect the dots" to all sorts of wacky shit.  But when you have to impute your bigoted beliefs when they cant't be justified by the actual post at issue,  that reveals more about you than anyone else. 

She made a point you that has zero to do with race, it's a shame you can't respond  without delving into your racial obsession and slurring someone with zero justification.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.13  A. Macarthur  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3.11    7 years ago

Her comment is wholly consistent with the Evangelical support of Trump; I'm just getting started with the specifics.

All you haters of political correctness, get ready for no euphemistic punch-pulling.

Guarding the gates of the church, itself is euphemistic and I will pull back the curtain on that with the particulars.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.14  A. Macarthur  replied to  Kathleen @1.3.7    7 years ago

The POTUS as guardian of the the church gate is a buzz word, mostly emimating from and alluding to Evangelicals who glommed onto Trump for the very ideological tenet I stated.

More specifics to come.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.3.16  Sean Treacy  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.3.13    7 years ago
ent is wholly consistent with the Evangelical support of Trump

So that's the new standard? Just ignore the what was actually written to start "connecting dots?" You might want to think twice about that standard because it won't go well for you if others return the favor.  "Dots can be connected" between almost every pronouncement you make to history's greatest monsters (and I'm not talking about Jimmy Carter).  Alot of your beliefs are "consistent" with those of Nazis, eugenicists, etc.etc.. 

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.17  A. Macarthur  replied to  Kathleen @1.3.12    7 years ago

Nothing is wrong with Christians of any color; what's wrong is having an American government agenda that panders to an agenda of the belief that America is and should be a White Christian Nation.

That is the agenda of the KKK, Bannon, Spencer, Stephen Miller, Neo Nazis, White Supremicists, Roy Moore, Neo Confederates and it ought to alarm all Americans of conscience.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.18  A. Macarthur  replied to  1stwarrior @1.3.8    7 years ago

Hey 1st Warrior; it's been a while and it's good to see you. I hope you are doing well.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.21  A. Macarthur  replied to  Kathleen @1.3.19    7 years ago

In theory and in practice, it comes frighteningly close to violating the constitution should the POTUS take any action, or to advocate that which makes him guardian of the church gate.

In citing entities that ideologically have overtly identified their religion as such, a Trump supporter, the full agendas of such entities become fair game!

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.22  A. Macarthur  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.3.16    7 years ago
So that's the new standard? Just ignore the what was actually written to start "connecting dots?" You might want to think twice about that standard because it won't go well for you if others return the favor.

Happens from your side all the time; the difference here is the intended connection and acceptance of an unconstitutional, religionist proclamation that is consistent with the ideology of Trump's Evangelical connections … and it's implausible to think there's any bifurcation regarding a POTUS-guardianship of "The Church Gate" and rest of the ideology that accompanies it.

lead_960.jpg

At the end of  The Evangelicals,  her nearly 700-page history of white evangelical Americans from colonial times to the present, Frances FitzGerald settles on the last of these assessments. “The simplest explanation was that those evangelicals who voted for Trump had affinities with the Tea Party,” she writes. They seemed to care more about shrinking the government, creating jobs, and deporting illegal immigrants than about enforcing Christian morals. “The Trump victory had shown,” she goes on, “that the Christian right had lost its power.” Yet FitzGerald’s careful account offers grist for a much richer exploration of evangelicals’ affinity with Trump.

The End of White Christian America

Robert P. Jones, CEO of the Public Religion Research Institute, spells out the profound political and cultural consequences of a new reality—that America is no longer a majority white Christian nation. “Quite possibly the most illuminating text for this election year” ( The New York Times Book Review ).

For most of our nation’s history, White Christian America (WCA) set the tone for our national policy and shaped American ideals. But especially since the 1990s, WCA has steadily lost influence, following declines within both its mainline and evangelical branches. Today, America is no longer demographically or culturally a majority white, Christian nation.

A merica is a Christian nation: this much has always been a political axiom, especially for conservatives. Even someone as godless and immoral as the 45th president feels the need to pay lip service to the idea. On the Christian Broadcasting Network last year, he   summarized   his own theological position with the phrase: “God is the ultimate.”

And in the conservative mind, American   Christianity   has long been hitched to whiteness. The right learned, over the second half of the 20th century, to talk about this connection using abstractions like “Judeo-Christian values”, alongside coded racial talk, to let voters know which side they were on.

 
 
 
katlin02
Freshman Silent
1.3.23  katlin02  replied to  Elaine Whiteside @1.3    7 years ago

i too am so grateful trump is president. clinton would have been nothing short of  a nightmare...obama did nothing but attack christians and their values and ability to live what they believed..suing the little sisters of the poor, catholic nuns whom he knew would object to handing out birth control pills was nothing short of an outright attack on their ability to practice their religious beliefs..he freq attacked christians for their beliefs and made fun of "bible thumpers" while praising his islamic brothers. making christians support abortion is another one by giving PP taxpayer funds they are forcing christians to financially support a practice they abhor.

one of the big reasons evangelicals voted for trump was because of the nonstop attacks upon religious liberties the libs have engaged in..you would think they would learn that hypocrisy is unbecoming on them.

supporting religious liberties has nothing to do with race--that is crazy and ridiculous since everyone knows only white people are christians and go to church :]--i am sure MLK would back up that assertion.

yes trump was elected because the majority of people in sane america got fed up with left wing lunacy.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
1.3.26  Nowhere Man  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.3.4    7 years ago
But say the word and I'll connect the dots.

I'm saying the word my friend.....

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.27  A. Macarthur  replied to    7 years ago

If you look around the board you will see upon what I base my assertion ... and that I base it on THEIR assertion.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.28  A. Macarthur  replied to  Nowhere Man @1.3.26    7 years ago

I connected the dots. Look around the board.

If you want other dots just say so.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.30  A. Macarthur  replied to  Have Opinion Will Travel @1.3.29    7 years ago

Oh no ... Not to the core ... Please tell me you don't mean the core.

Pronouncements and dismissive comments are made when one can't mount a viable rebuttal.

Oh please, say you don't mean the "core" ... 

No facts, No Fear.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.31  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen @1.3.15    7 years ago
No, that is okay, I don't need to see them.

That's okay, you don't need to look at them.  

I'd like to see them AMacarthur

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.32  Tessylo  replied to  Elaine Whiteside @1.3    7 years ago
I love that Trump can't be bought, he's already wealthier than everyone else and even donates his paycheck - which liberals give him no credit for of course.

That's HIlarious!!!  I don't give him credit for dick as he is lining his pockets with his golf cart rentals, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. on his many golfing vacations at his resorts with our tax dollars.  

He actually can be bought - and is - by his pal Putin.  As is most of his administration.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.33  Tessylo  replied to  Elaine Whiteside @1.3    7 years ago
As I reminded people during the nomination process we aren't hiring him to teach Sunday School, we're hiring him "to guard the gates of the church"

 

What the fuck?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.34  Tessylo  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.3.22    7 years ago

Someone needs to give that poor little baby in that picture with Rump's hand on its poor little face an exorcism.  

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.37  A. Macarthur  replied to  Tessylo @1.3.31    7 years ago

That's okay, you don't need to look at them.  

I'd like to see them AMacarthur

I've already posted several articles in this thread regarding Evangelicals and their espoused ideological tenet of a White Christian Nation … there will be more.
A reminder as to what put me on this track … a comment expressing joy with the idea the Trump is the "guardian of the gate of the church".
While this is contrary to the vision and intention of the Founding Fathers and the First Amendment, regardless of the disingenuous denial of many Trumpians, by virtue of Hobby Lobbyisms and the like, the "Religious Right/Evangelical" genuflection to Trump is quite real and verifiable.
And, as shown in my connect-the-dots comments already on the board, to continue …
Amazing Disgrace

As Trump continued gaining ground in the polls, Moore began to realize that the campaign represented nothing short of a battle for the soul of the Christian right. By backing Trump, white evangelicals were playing into the hands of a new, alt-right version of Christianity —a sprawling coalition of white nationalists, old-school Confederates, neo-Nazis, Islamophobes, and social-media propagandists who viewed the religious right, first and foremost, as a vehicle for white supremacy. The election,  Moore warned  in a  New York Times  op-ed last May, “has cast light on the darkness of pent-up nativism and bigotry all over the country.” Those who were criticizing Trump, he added, “have faced threats and intimidation from the ‘alt-right’ of white supremacists and nativists who hide behind avatars on social media.”

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.3.39  A. Macarthur  replied to    7 years ago
Okay Mac, I'll play, please give me some examples from this board of known evangelicals asserting the belief that America should be white and Christian only.
Obviously you have not seen the three or four examples I've already posted … but, here's another …

Donald Trump, White America’s Favorite Christian 

In white American Christian politics, devotion to white supremacy is synonymous with living the word of God. Trump knows this very well, even if he has never read a single page of the Holy Bible. His recent   appearance at the Values Voter Summit , an annual conference for conservative activists across the United States, showed us the true meaning of white Christianity and why so many evangelicals consider him God’s messenger.

He mentioned his first appointment to the Supreme Court, Justice Neil Gorsuch, as a major political victory. Keep in mind that Gorsuch voted last month in favor of allowing the execution of a black man to go forward, even though one of the jury members who sentenced him to death   referred to him as a “nigger.”  Fortunately, the high court ruled 6-3 to halt the execution.

He also voted in a 5-4 majority to block two federal district court rulings in Texas that   required the state to redraw   its state and federal congressional districts after it was determined that its legislature had illegally gerrymandered them. The ruling basically weakens the power of Latino voters in Texas, ensuring that the state will remain red for years to come.

Trump knew exactly what he was doing. Without saying it, he was telling the audience that his Supreme Court picks will maintain white hegemony. To ensure that America’s political infrastructure maintains that whiteness, the only thing white evangelicals must do is vote for him.

In Jesus’ name, of course.

_________________________________________

Need more … no problem.

 
 
 
Old Hermit
Sophomore Silent
1.3.40  Old Hermit  replied to    7 years ago

lennylynx - While most of the world is properly horrified by Trump being President

Old School Marine - And you base this claim on what again?

Data?

June 26, 2017
U.S. Image Suffers as Publics Around World Question Trump’s Leadership

 According to a new Pew Research Center survey spanning 37 nations, a median of just 22% has confidence in Trump to do the right thing when it comes to international affairs. This stands in contrast to the final years of Barack Obama’s presidency, when a median of 64% expressed confidence in Trump’s predecessor to direct America’s role in the world.

Screenshot20171016 U S Image Suffers as Publics Around World Question Trumps Leadership.png

Screenshot20171016 U S Image Suffers as Publics Around World Question Trumps Leadership1.png

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.41  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.3.4    7 years ago

Just stay on topic of the article seeded or go away.  Your kind of derailing is not wanted here.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.42  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.3.5    7 years ago

Just go away already.  There is nothing race based about Trump supporters or evangelical Christians.  Christians had clear reasons why they backed Trump over Clinton.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.43  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Have Opinion Will Travel @1.3.29    7 years ago

It is indeed.  Well said. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.44  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  1stwarrior @1.3.8    7 years ago

You can’t be suggesting that no native Americans are Christians?  Maybe I misread above.  

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
2  Rhyferys    7 years ago

Donald Trump, however, refuses to be silent, and you have to respect him for it

Stupid loud mouths get no respect from me, nor from a majority of Americans. Trump could do himself a yuge favor by saying a lot less. Of course, he won't, his ego demands it. Just in case you haven't noticed, Trump and his family are indeed, evil. Who else but an evil person would actively look to have a nuclear war, would deliberately destroy healthcare for the poor in America, praise neo-Nazi's while excoriating Americans peacefully protesting, increase pollution, open up pristine landscapes to polluting industries like oil, gas, and mining. Even if you remain quiet, which you won't, that doesn't relieve you of your responsibility.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Rhyferys @2    7 years ago

Trump and his family are not evil. No one wants a nuclear war and it’s not wrong to try to keep Iran nuclear free and North Korea from getting theirs on missiles.  No one wants to take health care away from those who have it.  And, the Antifa counter protests were not peaceful in any way.  

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
2.1.1  Rhyferys  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    7 years ago

#1. Sin is simply breaking a local taboo, I know evil when I see it.

#2. If he doesn't want a nuclear war with NK, why is he starting one with his mouth?

#3. He can't stop NK from putting bombs on missiles, unless he starts a nuclear war.

#4. If he doesn't want to take away healthcare from those who have it, why did he stop the subsidy payments? Every expert in the field easily sees that this will kill the marketplace and make healthcare unaffordable again.

#5. What I see Antifa mostly doing is protecting people from neo-Nazis

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
2.1.2  JaneDoe  replied to  Rhyferys @2.1.1    7 years ago

From what I have read the insurance company subsidies were never lawful because Congress never appropriated the money. I think that may have had something to do with putting an end to them.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.3  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  JaneDoe @2.1.2    7 years ago

Jane, you are correct.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  Rhyferys @2.1.1    7 years ago
#1. Sin is simply breaking a local taboo, I know evil when I see it.

You do, huh?

#2. If he doesn't want a nuclear war with NK, why is he starting one with his mouth?

He shouldn't be in this predicament. Decades of kicking the can down the road got us here. If Hillary won, she would have had some of those test missiles shot down and the media would have supported her. Now if anything happens, it's Trump's fault.

#3. He can't stop NK from putting bombs on missiles, unless he starts a nuclear war.

Kind of a paradox, isn't it?

#4. If he doesn't want to take away healthcare from those who have it, why did he stop the subsidy payments? Every expert in the field easily sees that this will kill the marketplace and make healthcare unaffordable again.

The subsidies are unconstitutional - a Federal judge said so. Congress appropriates where tax dollars go, not Obama. If Insurance companies need to be subsidized to service Obamacare, maybe the cost of the program was misrepresented in the first place. Premiums have gone through the roof for everyone. Obamacare exists in many places in name only. Somebody will have to fix it eventually.

#5. What I see Antifa mostly doing is protecting people from neo-Nazis

I think people are in more danger from Antifa. Neo-Nazis, wherever they exist, can barely make it down a street, while Antifa has big bold presence throughout the nation

thinkprogress? Really?

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
2.1.6  Rhyferys  replied to  JaneDoe @2.1.2    7 years ago

Obviously, it was being paid, and people were getting healthcare. Now they will not be. In my book, that is taking away healthcare for the most vulnerable. In my book, that contributes to his being one of the worst presidents in history.

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
2.1.7  JaneDoe  replied to  Rhyferys @2.1.6    7 years ago

Obviously the payments were unlawful. If the prior administration would have taken the correct steps and not acted in an unlawful manner we would not be in this situation today. Correct??

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Silent
2.1.8  96WS6  replied to  Rhyferys @2.1.1    7 years ago

#5. What I see Antifa mostly doing is protecting people from neo-Nazis

Gee are you ignoring a lot of what you are seeing?   Or do you only frequent progressive sites and others that support ANTIFA violence?

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Silent
2.1.9  96WS6  replied to  JaneDoe @2.1.2    7 years ago

That is correct Jane BO broke the law in order to force ACA on us.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.10  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  JaneDoe @2.1.2    7 years ago
From what I have read the insurance company subsidies were never lawful because Congress never appropriated the money. 

Then obviously you only read rightwing garbage.  That claim is currently in the courts so there has been no ruling on the matter. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.11  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to    7 years ago
Antifa are nothing except Anarcho-Communist thugs

You people can't even make up BS labels that don't pass the laugh test.  "Anarcho-communist" would be the very definition of a contradiction of terms. 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Silent
2.1.12  96WS6  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @2.1.10    7 years ago

That claim is currently in the courts so there has been no ruling on the matter. 

Would you like to wager on the outcome?

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.13  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.5    7 years ago
He shouldn't be in this predicament.

Congratulations, Vic.  That comment and everything that follows it above is about the best collection of rightwing shirking and finger-pointing for any and all responsibility for everything.  I guess this is something that's learned very early in childhood for these people.  

 
 
 
Explorerdog
Freshman Silent
2.1.14  Explorerdog  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    7 years ago

He said he loves war remember? Just not for him to personally or any member of his family, they might get dirty. Silent majority support him? how about a very small minority of like minded zealots, even his own circle are whistling past the graveyard.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.15  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.5    7 years ago
thinkprogress? Really?

Someone who obviously feeds on a constant diet of horseshit from Fox, Breitbart and the rest of the rightwing pukefunnel really shouldn't have the gaul to make comments like that. 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Silent
2.1.16  96WS6  replied to  Rhyferys @2.1.6    7 years ago

...and you obviously think it's OK for people to make up laws even though they have no authority as long as you agree with those laws.  Thank you for doing your part in putting us on track to communism and/or a dictatorship.

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
2.1.17  JaneDoe  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @2.1.10    7 years ago

That's a bold and rude statement considering you know nothing about me. I'm sure that everything you read from the left leaning news is spot on correct??

The problem dates back three years to a lawsuit House Republicans filed against President  Barack Obama's   administration, challenging the legality of the way the federal government paid insurers with low-income customers. Last year, Obama lost that lawsuit and appealed, and the funding remains in jeopardy because Congress hasn’t authorized the spending.

So according to this Huffington post article there has been a ruling but it's being appealed. Is this one of the right wing rags you speak of?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/08/02/obama-trump-and-the-perils-of-illegal-obamacare-subsidies/?utm_term=.56252f8c9067

Even though the payments are written into the law, money to pay them was never appropriated by Congress. Under the Constitution, Congress must appropriate money in order for the executive branch to spend it.

Congressional Republicans filed a lawsuit contending that these payments are illegal. In May 2016, federal district Judge Rosemary Collyer ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, though she stayed her judgment pending a possible appeal.

The Constitution clearly mandates that only Congress has the power to appropriate federal funds, not the executive. Article I, Section 9, cl. 7 states that "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law."

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.18  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  96WS6 @2.1.12    7 years ago
Would you like to wager on the outcome?

What are the stakes?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.19  Trout Giggles  replied to  Explorerdog @2.1.14    7 years ago

My son and son-in-law will go in his boys' place. Because they are patriots and aren't afraid of wearing a uniform

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
2.1.20  Rhyferys  replied to  JaneDoe @2.1.7    7 years ago

Not obvious at all. The CSR's were part of the ACA law, legally passed. Republicans in Congress refused to appropriate the money, instead they filed a lawsuit. The judge ruled in the plaintiffs favor, but stayed enforcement in case of an appeal. Now, Trump is holding it hostage in a typical ham-fisted effort to force Congress to do his bidding. So, basically, the president is deliberately harming vulnerable Americans like a 3 yr old having a tantrum. Those Americans will continue to be harmed, as republicans have no program that can be passed by Republicans only, and Democrats won't do anything because ump will get the blame. Such a deal.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.21  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  JaneDoe @2.1.17    7 years ago
That's a bold and rude statement considering you know nothing about me. 

Let me remind you of your own statement:

From what I have read the insurance company subsidies were never lawful because Congress never appropriated the money. 

That told us everything we needed to know about you on this subject at least:  You are completely uninformed.  You have since gone to a source which explained it to you and you still seem to be under the mistaken belief that this matter has been settled even though, at the same time, seem understand that it's on appeal yet don't grasp that the CSRs are still legal and are being paid out pending that appeal.  I don't know how your poor understanding of this matter could be any clearer.  

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
2.1.22  A. Macarthur  replied to  Rhyferys @2.1.20    7 years ago

Affordable Care Act survives Supreme Court challenge

The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld a key part of the Affordable Care Act that provides health insurance subsidies to all qualifying Americans, awarding a major victory to President Obama and validating his most prized domestic achievement.

In the 6-to-3 decision, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. delivered a sympathetic affirmation of what has become known as Obamacare, and his legal reasoning seemed to insulate the 2010 law against the legion of opponents who want to undermine the program before it takes hold in American life.

From the White House Rose Garden, Obama declared: “The Affordable Care Act is here to stay.”

The decision for the second time defused a potential conflict between Obama and the Supreme Court over the sprawling government program that is likely to define the president’s domestic legacy. Although more challenges are to come, an adverse ruling in this case could have been a mortal blow to the program, which continues to divide the nation and roil political conversation.

But federal exchanges were authorized for states that did not set up their own, and the Obama administration argued that millions of people served by a federal marketplace were entitled to the subsidies, too.

The court agreed that that was the only way the law would work and that, although the legislation’s wording was problematic, Congress’s intent was clear.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.23  Trout Giggles  replied to  96WS6 @2.1.16    7 years ago

Your boy is the one that wants authoritarian rule

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
2.1.24  Spikegary  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.23    7 years ago

Wait, who said I have a Phone and a Pen?  That's not authoritarian?

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.25  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  96WS6 @2.1.8    7 years ago
Gee are you ignoring a lot of what you are seeing?  

You can't know how funny that is coming from the side that sees things that aren't there. 

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
2.1.26  JaneDoe  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @2.1.21    7 years ago

There you go again with your insults.

In order for the payments to be legal they have to go through congress, is that true or not? The judge who made the ruling, now under appeal because the Obama administration lost seems to think so.

Congressional Republicans filed a lawsuit contending that these payments are illegal. In May 2016, federal district Judge Rosemary Collyer ruled in favor of the plaintiffs.

The Constitution clearly mandates that only Congress has the power to appropriate federal funds, not the executive. Article I, Section 9, cl. 7 states that "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law."

You are the one that stated  there has been no ruling on the matter while in fact there was a ruling that is being appealed. Is that true or not?

I'm not going to waste anymore of my time responding to you or you rude posts that try to belittle my intelligence. You can ride your high horse onto another battlefield. You should wear a helmet, it's going to be a long drop when you fall.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.27  Vic Eldred  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @2.1.13    7 years ago
That comment and everything that follows it above is about the best collection of rightwing shirking

And as usual you cant respond directly to any of it, just name calling. What's the matter - cant riot onlinw?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.28  Vic Eldred  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @2.1.15    7 years ago
Someone who obviously feeds on a constant diet of horseshit from Fox,

Fox dosen't have a problem with killing stories like NBC - Is Epstein going to step down or be fired for sinking the Weinstein story? Nor does Fox have allow 3 reporters to quit after a false story, nor does Fox have idiots like Maddow who was so convinced Trump cheated on his 2005 return that she didn't bother to read it before posting it on her show. Need I go on?

As far as "think progress", "media matters" & "mother jones' are concerned - they seldom ever feature the truth 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.29  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Rhyferys @2.1.1    7 years ago

Antifa shows up in large cities and college towns all across bi coastal America .  Were there neo nazis in Berkeley and in all those big cites across America after the election?  Where were the neo nazis when Antifa mugged those leaving a Trump rally in San Jose.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.30  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  96WS6 @2.1.8    7 years ago

That was from Think progress.  

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
2.1.31  Nowhere Man  replied to  A. Macarthur @2.1.22    7 years ago

This is part of a problem most people have with written laws.

What is written in the law only controls if it matches the intent of congress. The court before ruling has to jive the written language with the intent of the writers, in that specific case where the writing is ambiguous, the intent dictates.

The Supreme Court decided that 2015 case on the basis of intent.... Which was proper cause even if the wording was faulty, the express intent of Congress in enacting it wasn't.

But that was back in 2015, and I have a hard time seeing how it applies to the extant case.

So I wonder Brother, what was the point in posting it? the issue in the current case is totally different. The decision you cite is totally off point.

 
 
 
tomwcraig
Junior Silent
2.1.32  tomwcraig  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @2.1.10    7 years ago
That claim is currently in the courts so there has been no ruling on the matter.

Actually, there have been rulings on the matter, but they have been immediately had a stay enacted on them pending appeals.

 
 
 
tomwcraig
Junior Silent
2.1.33  tomwcraig  replied to  Rhyferys @2.1.1    7 years ago
#5. What I see Antifa mostly doing is protecting people from neo-Nazis

Then you really are blind.  Antifa dresses and acts just like the Blackshirts from Benito Mussolini's National Fascist Party in the 1920s.  And, whom did the NFP count as allies throughout World War II?  That's right the German Nazi Party.  So, you have the violent thugs of Antifa acting and dressing like the violent thugs in Fascist Italy, yet they are supposedly the Anti-Fascists?  This is the irony of Antifa.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
2.1.34  A. Macarthur  replied to  Nowhere Man @2.1.31    7 years ago

The point ...

"What's past is prologue."

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.35  Tessylo  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.3    7 years ago
Jane, you are correct.

Nope, she's not.  

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
2.1.36  A. Macarthur  replied to  96WS6 @2.1.16    7 years ago
and you obviously think it's OK for people to make up laws even though they have no authority as long as you agree with those laws.  Thank you for doing your part in putting us on track to communism and/or a dictatorship.

Stop with the "communism" argument … The SCOTUS ruled on the ACA …

If you truly believe in the rule of law, then you live with the SCOTUS ruling … 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.37  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.35    7 years ago

Yes, she is.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.38  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to    7 years ago

Every last one of them and every one who supports them or defends them.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.39  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.28    7 years ago

Bravo 👏!  A big 👍 for you.  

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.41  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to    7 years ago

So, you've proved that you're not the only sort to have invented ridiculous and self-contradicting terms for others or even themselves.  Well done.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.42  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to    7 years ago

Comment removed for skirting the CoC [ph]

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
2.1.43  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.27    7 years ago

And as usual you cant respond directly to any of it, just name calling. What's the matter - cant riot onlinw?

And there's the always predictable whiny hissy-fit right on cue.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Rhyferys @2    7 years ago
Trump could do himself a yuge favor by saying a lot less.

So you are more concerned with what he says instead of what he does?

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
2.2.1  Rhyferys  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2.2    7 years ago

I said what  said and I meant it. If  was to comment on his actions, I would say that he would be doing ,America a yuge favor if he was to resign.

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
2.2.2  Spikegary  replied to  Rhyferys @2.2.1    7 years ago

So, in reality, you are a Mike Pence supporter.  Good to know.  I'm sure his eventual campaign will reach out to you for a donation.

 
 
 
Tex Stankley
Freshman Silent
5  Tex Stankley    7 years ago

I remember the Silent Majority.  They brought us Nixon, Agnew and his nattering nabobs of negativity, Kissinger and a host of crap from which we never quite recovered as a nation. 

This regime and its witless group of minions will take even longer to right, if we don't collectively go down in flames first.   The latter of which seems far more likely.  Lock 'n load lil Lizards, the center cannot hold.

I guess cowardice and a desire for an authoritarian system runs in the fambly.  My best goober guess is that these folks who still support Trump and his Merry Band of Bidness Kooks would have been, at best, Tories during the Rev and, at worst, Happy Einsatzgruppen Fun Boys during other, darker times.   And, Girls. 

We are Doomed.

"Concentrated power can be always wielded in the interest of the few and at the expense of the many. Government in its last analysis is this power reduced to a science. Governments never lead; they follow progress. When the prison, stake or scaffold can no longer silence the voice of the protesting minority, progress moves on a step, but not until then." Lucy Parsons

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tex Stankley @5    7 years ago
I guess cowardice and a desire for an authoritarian system runs in the family.

Kennedys, Clintons, etc...

It does! Nothing shows a desperate need for an authoritarian system than a liberal who needs government to control all aspects of their lives. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
5.1.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1    7 years ago
Nothing shows a desperate need for an authoritarian system than a liberal who needs government to control all aspects of their lives. 

And nothing shows a desperate need for an authoritarian system than a rightwinger who needs government to control all aspects of other people's lives.*

* i.e., sexual preferences, sexuality in general, medical decisions, childbirth, reproduction, whom one marries, the ability to vote........ 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Silent
5.2  96WS6  replied to  Tex Stankley @5    7 years ago

I can't help but laugh when and HRC supporter brings up Nixon.    Just imagine what would have happened to her back then.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
5.2.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  96WS6 @5.2    7 years ago
Just imagine what would have happened to her back then.

Not sure just what immoral and illegal act you'd have wished for her but I thought it might interest you that as a young lawyer she worked for the House Judiciary Committee's Watergate investigation so I guess your retroactive threat of harm to her is just your fertile imagination at work. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
6  Sunshine    7 years ago

most folks just didn't want another liberal on the Supreme Court.

with liberals judges trying to be lawmakers, that is a very important.

 
 
 
Rex Block
Freshman Silent
6.2  Rex Block  replied to  Sunshine @6    7 years ago

That's the main reason I voted for Trump...you know Hillary would have packed the SC with liberals.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
6.3  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Sunshine @6    7 years ago
most folks just didn't want another liberal on the Supreme Court.

This another installment of "Big Lies Rightwingers Must Believe Despite All Evidence to the Contrary," namely that most "folks" who voted last year did not want the Bloated Orange Glob who lives in the WH right now.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
6.3.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @6.3    7 years ago

Hillary didn’t get a majority of the popular vote either.  Trump did win the only majority that matters in a Presidential election.  

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
8  GG    7 years ago

Hollywood will never like him

He certainly loves Hollywood

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
8.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  GG @8    7 years ago
He certainly loves Hollywood

"When you're a star they let you do it, you can do anything..."

Sounds like Trump had been hanging out with Harvey.

What I find most interesting is that almost everyone on the left comes out just ripping Harvey apart as the vile piece of trash he is, but when Trump says he grabs women by their genitals, that he just starts kissing them, that you can do anything when you're a star the conservatives defend him tooth and nail claiming it's just "locker room" talk and try to deflect back to someone on the left who did something similar. Trump had over a dozen women come out and accuse him of misconduct, groping and assault but none of the conservatives want to believe them and claim the women must be lying. Harvey has a dozen or more come out making similar accusations and the conservatives start screaming about being justified in their hatred of Hollywood. Can you get more hypocritical? I think not.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.1    7 years ago

And his old buddy jeffery epstien.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.1.2  arkpdx  replied to  MrFrost @8.1.1    7 years ago

You mean the jeffery epstien that is goid friends with bill clinton who has been a frequent flier on his plane, "The Lolita Exoress? The same jeffery epstien that had bill as a guest to his "pedophile island" multiple times?

That jeffery epstien?

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
8.1.3  Spikegary  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.1    7 years ago

This is funny.  Real Sexual assault (let me connect the dots for you) vs. vile locker room talk.  And Locker Room talk wins for the worst offense.  Since the election, where have all those accusers gone?  Why did they not accuse him when he was just a business man and much easier to sue?  While we're at it, I'm sure you've seen all the pictures of women palling around with Weinstein that are now accusing him of everything form lewd behavior to rape.

And real sexual assault is not what bothers you the most?  Really?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Spikegary @8.1.3    7 years ago
Since the election, where have all those accusers gone?

I would imagine they sense a certain futility in suing the president of the United States

 
 
 
Rex Block
Freshman Silent
8.1.5  Rex Block  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.1    7 years ago

Trump says he might have done something.
Clinton and Harvey have been proven to having committed sexual assault and worse.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
8.1.6  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Spikegary @8.1.3    7 years ago
Since the election, where have all those accusers gone?

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/president-trump-subpoenaed-over-sexual-misconduct-allegations-n810871

At least one is still suing, the others were told the statute of limitations for their sexual misconduct claims had expired. Does it mean he didn't assault them? Of course not, it just means that like Harvey Weinstein, he's going to get away with it because he and his lawyers were able to shut the victims up for long enough with threats and pay offs. Sadly, Trump has even gotten away with the rape of a 13 year old who was told she didn't have enough physical evidence from 1994 when she was now strong enough to put up a fight.

And as for his comments being "locker room talk", I have never heard such admissions of guilt in any locker room I've been in. Have some guys made tasteless jokes? Sure. Have some made lewd comments about women? Yes. Have any talked about how they assault women without their consent? Saying they grab women by their genitals and that women let them do it because they're a star or that they just start kissing them because they can't help it? Hell no, they would get reported by anyone hearing such disgusting comments. You elected a self admitted sexual predator and your only excuse has been that 30 years ago an ex-President had a consensual affair with an adult intern. Other than that all accusations against President Clinton were the same as the accusations against Trump, unproven. I'm not saying Clinton wasn't a lecherous pervert, I believe he was and I do believe some of those women who accused him of inappropriate behavior, I just don't think that gives Trump any excuse. If you believe the retracted rape claim that was never proven from the late 1970's about Clinton, then you should also believe the 13 year old girls claim which hasn't been retracted, it simply didn't have enough physical evidence to prove in court.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
8.1.7  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Rex Block @8.1.5    7 years ago
Clinton and Harvey have been proven to having committed sexual assault and worse.

When was that? I'm not defending any sexual assault, but all that was "proven" against Bill Clinton was that he had a consensual relationship with an adult intern. The other claims against him are in the same category as the 13 year old girl who has accused Trump of raping her in 1994 but didn't have enough physical evidence to prove it in court.

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
8.1.8  Spikegary  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.1.6    7 years ago

And yet, Bill Cosby is hauled to court for stuff that was way past the fluid 'Statute of Limitations'.  Please.  Again, please answer why they didn't accuse/sue prior to him running for president....you know, when he was just a businessman and could easily be sued by any number of hungry lawyers looking to make a name for themselves.

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
8.1.9  Spikegary  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.1.7    7 years ago

who he was the supervisor of......which violates just about every rule in government, and yet NOW stood behind him, after he used his position to get a blowjob in the Oval Office and experimenting with cigars......at least when Kennedy had cigars, as far as we know, he just smoked them.....

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
8.1.10  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Spikegary @8.1.9    7 years ago
who he was the supervisor of......which violates just about every rule in government

Please do show me the law that says Presidents or anyone else in a position of power is not allowed to have a consensual relationship with an employee. I know certain companies have it in their company manuals and often when relationships happen have to move the employee to a different department so as not to have any conflicts of interest, but I know of no laws that were broken in the Lewinski case until the President was put under oath and tried to weasel out of the questions by giving a half truth which was used by Republicans to push impeachment. Trump lies daily but no Republicans seem to care, talk about hypocrisy.

Oh, and I notice you keep dodging the rape of the 13 year old girl that Trump has been accused of. Why is that?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
8.1.12  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Spikegary @8.1.8    7 years ago
And yet, Bill Cosby is hauled to court for stuff that was way past the fluid 'Statute of Limitations'.

Completely false statement. Cosby went to trial for a rape from 2004 which was within the statute of limitations in the State it occurred, the dozens of other women who accused him weren't able to go to trial and most virtually all of them were kept out of the trial because they were past the statute and weren't admissible which is why the case ended in a mistrial. I would think even half wits would want to do even a smidgen of research before making easily disproven statements, it would keep them from making such fools of themselves.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
8.1.13  1stwarrior  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.1.6    7 years ago

"Trump has even gotten away with the rape of a 13 year old" - proof????

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
8.1.14  Cerenkov  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @8.1.10    7 years ago

Sex with subordinates is sexual harassment. 

Your Trump rape bullshit was debunked above.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
8.1.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  Spikegary @8.1.9    7 years ago
who he was the supervisor of..

Still not sexual assault.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
8.1.16  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Cerenkov @8.1.14    7 years ago

The Trump rape "BS" as you claim was never debunked, it was "dropped" due to a lack of physical evidence. It is as valid as any other claim of rape you keep repeating against Clinton, Cosby or Weinstein that doesn't go to trial because none of them have any "physical evidence" of something that DID happen several years prior and took a long time for the victim to come forward. You can "poo poo" it all you want, but if you believe the Wienstein accusations based just on a victims word then you should believe that 13 year old girl who says she was raped by Donald Trump regardless of her ability to present "physical evidence" of the rape that occurred 15 years before she came forward, which is the same number of years Clinton's accuser from 1977 waited who was a twice married woman at the time before she was paid by Republicans to make her claim in 1992 then recanted her statement. Trumps accuser has never recanted her statement. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
8.1.17  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Cerenkov @8.1.14    7 years ago
Sex with subordinates is sexual harassment.

This is a blatant lie BTW. If you can prove that an employer/employee consenting adult relationship is "sexual harassment" please prove it instead of just making false statements.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9  JohnRussell    7 years ago

Funny how, those who voted for and still support POTUS Trump, couldn't be happier with the job he's done since being elected, most believing that he will go down in U.S. History as one of the best Presidents ever

One day that may be used as an insanity test.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
10  Dismayed Patriot    7 years ago

"He tells it as he sees it, and he isn’t afraid to" lie, lie, lie, even in the face of demonstrably provable facts.

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html

www.snopes.com/2017/07/12/trump-lies/

What the majority of America hate about Donald is he appears immune to facts, and apparently that's what the 35% that still approve of him love. He lies to them about bringing coal jobs back, he lies about his crowd sizes, he lies about millions of imaginary illegal voters, he lies about his predecessor not calling military families who've lost loved ones, he lies about draining the swamp, he lies about almost everything. The only thing which has been consistent about Trump is that you can't trust anything he says. And on top of his lies all the conservatives give him a pass for being a self admitted sexual predator by bringing up 30 year old unproven claims about an ex-President that wasn't running for any office. I'm sure those "Two Corinthians" would have considered it all "locker room talk" as well. Any conservative religious folk who think they have some moral high ground are fooling themselves more than Trump fooled his contractors when he told them he'd pay them for their work, then grabbed $39 million in "consulting fees" from the LLC he created and then filed bankruptcy, again.

www.money.cnn.com/2016/08/15/investing/donald-trump-bankrupt-casino/index.html

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
10.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @10    7 years ago

I'm still trying to figure out all these "great" things that trump has supposed to have done

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
10.1.1  GG  replied to  Trout Giggles @10.1    7 years ago

Well, they almost have him potty-trained, but not quite...

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
11  MrFrost    7 years ago
No matter what he does, a large part of the country will never accept Donald Trump as our president. Hollywood will never like him, not that that matters any longer, since the implosion of Harvey Weinstein has shown the entire lot of virtue signaling miscreants to be morally bankrupt.

Um, Trump was a part of hollywood, he had his own reality show, you know that, right?  Also, you are condemning all of Hollywood because of Weinstien? So I can say that all Christians are child molesters because of Josh Duggar? All conservatives are racist murderers because of Dylann Roof? 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
11.1  arkpdx  replied to  MrFrost @11    7 years ago
So I can say that all Christians are child molesters because of Josh Duggar? All conservatives are racist murderers because of Dylann Roof? 

Many on the left have been doing just that for years. Where have you been?

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
11.2  Spikegary  replied to  MrFrost @11    7 years ago

Hollywood - where they make movies.

Where did they make the Apprentice?

No matter what he did in his life you would find fault with it.  He was fine as a business man, then he entered politics and suddenly everything he ever did is wrong, bad, illegal, etc., etc. 

Seems more of a 'you' thing than a 'him' thing.

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
11.2.1  GG  replied to  Spikegary @11.2    7 years ago

He was not fine as a businessman.  He was, and is, a con and a fraud.  He was sued something like 4,000 times because of his fraudulent business practices.  No one ever thought he was a fine businessman.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
11.2.2  Sunshine  replied to  GG @11.2.1    7 years ago

do you have any idea how difficult it is to win a Presidential election?

any?

I would even give Hillary kudos for it, but she is a two time loser.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
11.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  GG @11.2.1    7 years ago
He was sued something like 4,000 times

Wow!   That's a lot of lawsuits.

Who knew!

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
11.2.4  GG  replied to  Sparty On @11.2.3    7 years ago

Who knew?  Educated voters.  Correction:  over 3,500, plus more than 100 since he became Presidunce.

Here are a few: 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
11.2.5  Sparty On  replied to  GG @11.2.4    7 years ago

Educated eh?   And you missed it by 500 give or take?

Dilly, dilly for you.

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
11.2.6  GG  replied to  Sparty On @11.2.5    7 years ago

I can admit a mistake.  And it may be 4,000 from other reports I heard, which it may well be, but the article said 3,500, so fine.  The site would not allow me to make the correction. 

Can you admit the horrendous mistake you made of voting for a man who intends to drive America into its grave?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
11.2.7  Sparty On  replied to  GG @11.2.6    7 years ago

Jumping posts are we?

Anyway, how predictable.    Which is why i clarified my comment in the other post.   Like i said, things made up in your head don't count so no.   It wasn't a mistake.  

The real mistake would have been if the other person got in.   No doubt about that.

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
11.2.8  GG  replied to  Sparty On @11.2.7    7 years ago

Jumping posts are we?

Huh?  We're not talking about your admittedly false statement.  That was a different post.  Different mistake.  This mistake is about you voting for Trump.

The real mistake would have been if the other person got in. 

Then you are responsible when your Dear Leader, the traitor, takes the country to hell.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
11.2.9  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Spikegary @11.2    7 years ago
No matter what he did in his life you would find fault with it.  He was fine as a business man

That's a good one. A serial bankrupt self admitted sexual predator and you're claiming we have to "find fault". Trump is the poster boy for vile disgusting perverted narcissists, you don't have to do much research to find that out. He's said if his daughter wasn't his daughter he'd want to date her. How much more gross can you get? Or is that a common compliment at southern inbred family reunions so it doesn't phase the average conservative Republican?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.2.10  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @11.2.9    7 years ago

He's said if his daughter wasn't his daughter he'd want to date her.

I think he's known her 'in the biblical sense since she was about 12'

 
 
 
Account Deleted
Freshman Silent
12  Account Deleted    7 years ago
It’s not only about time we had a president like Donald Trump, it is the right time, because if he fails all is lost for the nation.

All is lost for the nation - oh no - not all.

Perhaps a certain ugliness of the American spirit might be lost - but that ugliness seems to be quite resilient.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
12.1  A. Macarthur  replied to  Account Deleted @12    7 years ago
Perhaps a certain ugliness of the American spirit might be lost - but that ugliness seems to be quite resilient.

Perfectly posited …

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
12.1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  A. Macarthur @12.1    7 years ago

The ugliness within the American spirit comes mostly from its secular progressive left.  

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
12.1.2  GG  replied to  A. Macarthur @12.1    7 years ago

The ugliness within the American spirit comes mostly from its theocratic dominionists and hard-core right wing reactionaries.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  GG @12.1.2    7 years ago

The real ugliness in the American spirit comes from a minority of the people.   The squeaky wheels if you will.   They reside in the far fringes of both right and left wing partisan politics.   True believers in their minority fundamentalist beliefs.    They are easy to spot.    They are never, never wrong and are constantly bagging on that which they don't agree with. 

Yep, we have some of those dandies right here on NT.   Some of them remind me of folks i knew over on NV.   Sadly, few of those are brave enough to share the names they used over there.

That said, a majority of the American spirit is much more independent than those fundamentalists.   Not easily shoehorned into the partisan politics being spewed by the hive on the left or the hive on the right.   They can think for themselves.   Unfortunately they aren't the squeaky wheel but beware.   When they do start squeaking the fundamentalists will get squished.   On both sides

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
12.1.4  GG  replied to  Sparty On @12.1.3    7 years ago

Oh, then I guess you would be willing to retract your admittedly false statement?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.1.5  Sparty On  replied to  GG @12.1.4    7 years ago

If i made one, sure.   Ones that are made up in your head don't count though.

Sorry charlie.

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
12.1.6  GG  replied to  Sparty On @12.1.5    7 years ago

See 12.1.1  

And my name's not Charlie, Bucko

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  GG @12.1.6    7 years ago

See 12.1.1  

See 11.2.1.2 not charlie.

And yes, i agree with 12.1.1  

A lot of truth in that one.

 
 
 
GG
Freshman Silent
12.1.8  GG  replied to  Sparty On @12.1.7    7 years ago

Except that it totally contradicts your other comment.

Oh well, you can talk to yourself now and have a nice day.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.1.9  Sparty On  replied to  GG @12.1.8    7 years ago

Only in your twisted partisan mind since I already stated the problem is on both sides.    So yeah, run away.    You lost this one.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
13  Sean Treacy    7 years ago

Most of Trumps supposed lies are simply statements made out of ignorance, many others are those of the insecure braggart unwilling to concede an inch.  

Hillary's lies, on the other hand, are of the premeditated variety, vetted by lawyers and carefully rehearsed. 

The election was a choice between the spontaneous braggart and the calculated, rehearsed  liar. 

 
 
 
96WS6
Junior Silent
13.1  96WS6  replied to  Sean Treacy @13    7 years ago

Yes basically a choice between an established and impressively networked liar and criminal and an amateur who everyone can tell is lying.  Though choice?

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
13.1.1  Rhyferys  replied to  96WS6 @13.1    7 years ago

An amateur criminal.

 
 
 
Explorerdog
Freshman Silent
13.2  Explorerdog  replied to  Sean Treacy @13    7 years ago

We ended up with an egotistic narcissistic braggart, that lies with abandon even when it serves no purpose. No win here.

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
13.3  lib50  replied to  Sean Treacy @13    7 years ago

You must think Trump is pretty ignorant! But you don't seem to know much about narcissist pathological liars.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
13.3.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  lib50 @13.3    7 years ago

We know one left the White House on Jan. 20 this year.  

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
13.3.2  lib50  replied to  XXJefferson51 @13.3.1    7 years ago

Sure, whatever. I don't know what prism you view the world of politics, but anybody with sense and a working brain can see exactly what each has said and done.  Or maybe you belong to the world of 'values voters', where Bannon's racism and republican glorification of greed is more important than the values Jesus actually espoused. We saw how Obama conducted himself, and we see how Trump conducts himself.  Nuff said.

 
 
 
Bourbon Street
Freshman Silent
13.3.3  Bourbon Street  replied to  lib50 @13.3.2    7 years ago
We saw how Obama conducted himself,

Yup.

The latest reports indicate that the FBI has evidence that Obama knew a year and a half ago that Russians were using bribery and spying to grab US held Uranium - BEFORE the Uranium One deal was allowed to proceed with Hillary and Holder's blessings - BEFORE Bill Clinton was paid $500k for a speech by the Russians - BEFORE the Clintons had been paid $145 million under the table to allow the deal to proceed, that Robert Mueller (FBI Director at the time) and James Comey were complicit in the deal.

In other words - Dingle-Barry and his cohorts - Clintons, Mueller, Comey, Lynch were all directly involved in treasonous behavior. Turns out there WAS Russian collusion - the only fly in the ointment being that Special Prosecutor Mueller, the Clintons, Comey and Obama himself were the culprits.

BTW - It turns out Comey drafted the letter of exoneration for Hillary two full months before the 12 central witnesses in her obstruction investigation were even interviewed, or the 33000 emails she deleted and scrubbed were recovered.

Add to this illegal unmasking of US citizens, ongoing investigations of illegal wiretapping, pay-offs to the Iranians and the Russians.....We do indeed see just what sort of man Dingle-Barry is.

and we see how Trump conducts himself.

Yup.

New record set every week for the stock market, lowest unemployment in 12 years, highest participation in the job market, GDP increase percentage has doubled since Trump took office, China and Russia working WITH us in the UN for the first time ever, illegal border crossing reduced to a trickle.....and a new Tax plan on the way that will reduce tax burdens and further invigorate the economy.

Nuff said.

Double "yup".

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
13.3.4  lib50  replied to  Bourbon Street @13.3.3    7 years ago

I hope you thanked Obama for all that good economic news because Trump and republicans haven't done jack to anything yet.  Meantime, our standing in the world has been greatly diminished, respect and trust may never come back in my lifetime, and we have racists feeling like their boy is in the House and they are emboldened to have hate marches and speeches at will.  And I'm not even mentioning the disgrace Trump brought on himself over what happened in Niger.  Ooops, guess I couldn't help it because it might be the most disgusting Trump has done and said so far. For shame. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
13.3.5  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  lib50 @13.3.4    7 years ago
I hope you thanked Obama for all that good economic news because Trump and republicans haven't done jack to anything yet.

Wait, you mean the very president that DOUBLED the US debt during his time in office should be thanked?  You must have taken a very large drink from the Kool Aid.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
13.3.6  A. Macarthur  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @13.3.5    7 years ago
Wait, you mean the very president that DOUBLED the US debt during his time in office should be thanked?  You must have taken a very large drink from the Kool Aid.

How the US public was defrauded by the hidden cost of the Iraq war

George Bush sold the war as quick and cheap; it was long and costly. Even now, the US is paying billions to private contractors

The most obvious way in which the true cost of this war was kept hidden was with the use of supplemental appropriations to fund the occupation.   By one estimate , 70% of the costs of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan between 2003 and 2008 were funded with supplemental or emergency appropriations approved outside the Pentagon's annual budget. These appropriations allowed the Bush administration to shield the Pentagon's budget from the cuts otherwise needed to finance the war, to keep the Pentagon's pet programs intact and to escape the scrutiny that Congress gives to its normal annual regular appropriations.

With the Iraq war treated as an "off the books" expense, the Pentagon was allowed to keep spending on high-end military equipment and cutting-edge technology. In fiscal terms, it was as if the messy wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were never happening.

More fundamentally, the Bush administration masked the cost of the war with deficit spending to ensure that the American people would not face up to its costs while President Bush was in office.

When Obama took office, he included what Bush had concealed to reveal the actual debt ; and that is why claims of Obama "doubling the US debt" is both disingenuous and incorrect!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
13.3.7  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  A. Macarthur @13.3.6    7 years ago

And Obama continued it.  In fact, after he "ended the war in Iraq" he started a new one.  This time included Syria in the mix.  Costing the taxpayers even more and STILL screwing over the Soldiers he sent over there.

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
13.3.8  lib50  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @13.3.7    7 years ago

Psst - Niger

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
13.4  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Sean Treacy @13    7 years ago
The election was a choice between a know-nothing pathologically lying spontaneous braggart, raging narcissistic sociopath and proudly-admitted sexual predator and a woman who's none of those things. 

Edited for honesty and accuracy.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
14  A. Macarthur    7 years ago

DONALD TRUMP = Jess Wiilard

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
15  Nowhere Man    7 years ago

Today we have an ideological struggle for the heart of America. And this is good, it is the way it is supposed to be. the harder the struggle the louder the voice.....

This has been happening from time immemorial.

Lets see that the Genius of the Founders said about the eternal struggle.....

  • "In every free and deliberating society, there must, from the nature of man, be opposite parties, and violent dissensions and discords; and one of these, for the most part, must prevail over the other for a longer or shorter time." --Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798. ME 10:45
  • "Warring against [the principles] of the people,... there is no length to which [the delusion of the people] may not be pushed by a party in possession of the revenues and the legal authorities of the United States, for a short time indeed, but yet long enough to admit much particular mischief. There is no event, therefore, however atrocious which may not be expected." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Smith, 1798. (*) ME 10:56
  • "In an absolute government there can be no... equiponderant parties. The despot is the government. His power suppressing all opposition, maintains his ministers firm in their places. What he has contracted, therefore, through them, he has the power to observe with good faith; and he identifies his own honor and faith with that of his nation." --Thomas Jefferson to John Langdon, 1810. ME 12:377
  • "It is the steady abuse of power in other governments which renders that of opposition always the popular party." --Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1818. FE 10:106

What is happening today in this nation has been happening throughout history in all nations. When a people decide to create a nation, inevitably they devolve into at least two camps, the one that think all power should be vested in a government with absolute authority to rule over the citizens (statists) and those who think the citizens are capable of ruling over themselves. (individualists)

  • "Wherever there are men, there will be parties; and wherever there are free men they will make themselves heard. Those of firm health and spirits are unwilling to cede more of their liberty than is necessary to preserve order; those of feeble constitutions will wish to see one strong arm able to protect them from the many. These are the Whigs and Tories of nature. These mutual jealousies produce mutual security; and while the laws shall be obeyed, all will be safe. He alone is your enemy who disobeys them." --Thomas Jefferson: Misc. Notes, 1801? FE 8:1
  • "The division into Whig and Tory is founded in the nature of man; the weakly and nerveless, the rich and the corrupt, seeing more safety and accessibility in a strong executive; the healthy, firm, and virtuous, feeling confidence in their physical and moral resources, and willing to part with only so much power as is necessary for their good government; and, therefore, to retain the rest in the hands of the many, the division will substantially be into Whig and Tory." --Thomas Jefferson to Joel Barlow, 1802. ME 10:310
  • "Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object: the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers, the other by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove. We think that one side of this experiment has been long enough tried and proved not to promote the good of the many, and that the other has not been fairly and sufficiently tried. Our opponents think the reverse. With whichever opinion the body of the nation concurs, that must prevail." --Thomas Jefferson to Abigail Adams, 1804. ME 11:52
  • "The duty of an upright administration is to pursue its course steadily, to know nothing of these family dissensions, and to cherish the good principles of both parties." --Thomas Jefferson to George Logan, 1805. ME 11:71
  • "I had always expected that when the republicans should have put down all things under their feet, they would schismatize among themselves. I always expected, too, that whatever names the parties might bear, the real division would be into moderate and ardent republicanism. In this division there is no great evil -- not even if the minority obtain the ascendency by the accession of federal votes to their candidate; because this gives us one shade only, instead of another, of republicanism. It is to be considered as apostasy only when they purchase the votes of federalists, with a participation in honor and power." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1807. ME 11:265
  • "Men have differed in opinion and been divided into parties by these opinions from the first origin of societies, and in all governments where they have been permitted freely to think and to speak. The same political parties which now agitate the U.S. have existed through all time. Whether the power of the people or that of the [aristocracy] should prevail were questions which kept the states of Greece and Rome in eternal convulsions, as they now schismatize every people whose minds and mouths are not shut up by the gag of a despot. And in fact the terms of Whig and Tory belong to natural as well as to civil history. They denote the temper and constitution of mind of different individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:279
  • "To me... it appears that there have been differences of opinion and party differences, from the first establishment of government to the present day, and on the same question which now divides our own country; that these will continue through all future time; that every one takes his side in favor of the many, or of the few, according to his constitution, and the circumstances in which he is placed... that as we judge between the Claudii and the Gracchi, the Wentworths and the Hampdens of past ages, so of those among us whose names may happen to be remembered for awhile, the next generations will judge favorably or unfavorably according to the complexion of individual minds and the side they shall themselves have taken; that nothing new can be added to what has been said by others and will be said in every age in support of the conflicting opinions on government; and that wisdom and duty dictate an humble resignation to the verdict of our future peers." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:283
  • "Nature has made some men monarchists and tories by their constitution, and some, of course, there always will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Albert Gallatin, 1817. ME 15:135
  • "I consider the party division of Whig and Tory the most wholesome which can exist in any government, and well worthy of being nourished, to keep out those of a more dangerous character." --Thomas Jefferson to William T. Barry, 1822. ME 15:388
  • "The parties of Whig and Tory are those of nature. They exist in all countries, whether called by these names or by those of Aristocrats and Democrats, Cote Droite and Cote Gauche, Ultras and Radicals, Serviles and Liberals. The sickly, weakly, timid man fears the people, and is a Tory by nature. The healthy, strong and bold cherishes them, and is formed a Whig by nature." --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:492
  • "The Tories are for strengthening the Executive and General Government; the Whigs cherish the representative branch and the rights reserved by the States as the bulwark against consolidation, which must immediately generate monarchy." --Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:493
  • "Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests. In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves. Call them, therefore, Liberals and Serviles, Jacobins and Ultras, Whigs and Tories, Republicans and Federalists, Aristocrats and Democrats, or by whatever name you please, they are the same parties still and pursue the same object. The last one of Aristocrats and Democrats is the true one expressing the essence of all." --Thomas Jefferson to Henry Lee, 1824. ME 16:73
  • "The common division of Whig and Tory... is the most salutary of all divisions and ought, therefore, to be fostered instead of being amalgamated; for take away this, and some more dangerous principle of division will take its place." --Thomas Jefferson to William Short, 1825. ME 16:96

Thomas Jefferson wrote to his contempories throughout his life as to the true nature of politics and described the effect of politics on a society and accurately described the sides of the discourse. Of course, he also warned what would happen if we allowed this natural division of the citizenry to dissipate, WE WOULD LOSE that which makes us a whole.... Right now the establishments of both political parties are more alike than different. This is the Consolidation that Jefferson spoke of....

It reveals itself everytime someone says I wish for bipartisan meetings of the minds, I wish for republicans that are willing to compromise with democrats, Conservatives that are willing to work with Liberals.

When one side gains enough power or the two sides consolidate to the point of complete cooperation, is when we are at the greatest risk to losing our freedom.

Knowing this great truth, is there any reason to not understand the 2010 midterms? The same thing happened in 2008 with the election of Obama. Way too much power went into the hands of a few, and as natural, they wielded it strongly to their advantage, until such power was removed.

The struggles we as a nation are undergoing are the same struggles that have gone on throughout history..... And you can always deduce the correct path by the course of the citizen in a representative republic. the citizen knows what is best for his nation....

This lesson in political philosophy was brought to you by Thomas Jefferson, As President Kennedy said to a Nobel laureate dinner at the White House. (over 200 Nobel laureates) "There has never been such a large collection of Genius in the White House, well, at least since Thomas Jefferson lived here"

NWM

WE would do well to pay heed to the wisdom that came before....

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
16  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו    7 years ago

This article reminds us that the lies rightwingers tell the rest of us are nothing compared to the lies they have to tell themselves in order to justify destroying the country they claim to love.  It's that love that kills that's the problem.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
16.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @16    7 years ago
This article reminds us that the lies rightwingers tell the rest of us are nothing compared to the lies they have to tell themselves in order to justify destroying the country they claim to love.

Hatred is a vicious, self-serving master. It would be a lot better nation if we could simply lose the hatred so well demonstrated in this comment......

"It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard M. Johnson, 1808. ME 12:9

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
18  Ender    7 years ago

McCain has really been getting on him.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
19  Krishna    7 years ago

No matter what he does, a large part of the country will never accept Donald Trump as our president.

Yet, there is a silent majority in this nation who are willing to give the man a chance to succeed. I know the media are already calling his presidency a failure after ten months, but that was expected.

So ...into which group would you place Republicans such as Senator John McCain:

Washington (CNN) President Donald Trump, hours after Sen. John McCain delivered a speech that repudiated the President, warned the Arizona Republican to "be careful" because at some point he will "fight back."

McCain,   while accepting the Liberty Medal in Philadelphia on Monday night , warned the United States against turning toward "half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems."
The speech was a repudiation of Trump, who the Arizona Republican has long feuded with, and the worldview that catapulted him to office.
Trump told Chris Plante of "The Chris Plante Show" on Tuesday that he heard the criticism and warned McCain to be careful.
"He was taking shots at you again yesterday," Plante said. "You heard what he said yesterday, Sen. McCain?"
"Yeah, well I hear it. And people have to be careful because at some point I fight back," Trump said. "I'm being very nice. I'm being very, very nice. But at some point I fight back, and it won't be pretty."
 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
20  Krishna    7 years ago

No matter what he does, a large part of the country will never accept Donald Trump as our president.

Yet, there is a silent majority in this nation who are willing to give the man a chance to succeed. I know the media are already calling his presidency a failure after ten months, but that was expected.

So ...into which group would you place Republicans such as Senator John McCain:

Or...Senator Bob Corker?

Corker: Trump hasn't demonstrated the stability or competence to be successful

"The President has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate in order to be successful," Corker said, according to a video posted by local news website Nooga.com.
"He has not demonstrated that he understands what has made this nation great and what it is today, and he's got to demonstrate the characteristics of a president who understands that," Corker added.
Corker is the latest Republican senator to criticize Trump's handling of the Charlottesville protests. Trump attacked two other Republican senators — Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Jeff Flake of Arizona — on Twitter on Thursday morning over their criticisms of him.
Corker is not "in essence, stake out positions once held by mainstream Democrats". His complaints are not based on ideology-- but rather his view that Trump is incompetent which s something else entirely.

 
 
 
katlin02
Freshman Silent
21  katlin02    7 years ago

Trump is willing to fight the way the left fights. He is willing to get down and dirty and fight in the mud if he has to. When they insult him, he insults back. When they ridicule him, he ridicules back. When they throw a punch, he throws a punch and he is not afraid to throw the first punch either (see the NFL, see the media).

I learned a long time ago that you can’t win a fight unless you’re willing to do whatever your opponent is willing to do.

Trump is willing to use every single weapon progressives have always used.

those are his endearing qualities and one big reason i voted for him....the left libs are shocked to see that anyone would actually call them out on their lies and tactics and no one is more shocked than the media who have been distorting information for decades.

i know libs refuse to recognize or believe it but americans have been looking for someone to fight back for them. americans have recognized they have been gravely wounded by washington politics esp during the obama yrs  when poverty flourished and the working class floundered and was made fun of--this was the very reason trump got all those votes from the blue wall states many of them democrats..

 
 
 
Explorerdog
Freshman Silent
22  Explorerdog    7 years ago

Americans have a right to demand that elected officials are honest to a fault, with trump we have the opposite, he lies for his own reasons which are pointless. He consistently brags about his charitable contributions and when ever those donations are looked at they do not come close to his statements. He offered $25 thousand to the father of a fallen warrior, the check was mailed AFTER the story hit the press that his offer was merit less. Did the check for a million ever get sent even after the news media brought it back up? His trump International Golg course claimed 5 million in charitable donations, even after inflating values for in-kind donations like donating a hotel room at full value no one can get more than $800,000, are they claiming 5 million on taxes? The only people refusing to recognize are his supporters  and even they knew he was a snake when they picked him up.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Participates
23  Galen Marvin Ross    7 years ago

"No matter what he does, a large part of the country will never accept Donald Trump as our president. Hollywood will never like him, not that that matters any longer, since the implosion of Harvey Weinstein has shown the entire lot of virtue signaling miscreants to be morally bankrupt."

Yep, trump's never done or, said anything like Weinstein said or, did.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
23.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @23    7 years ago

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYWJmZmE1YWItYjBjYi00ODU4LTg2MDUtOTQyNWY2NjFlOGM5L2ltYWdlL2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTExNDQ2MTI@._V1_UY317_CR2,0,214,317_AL_.jpg       https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYWJmZmE1YWItYjBjYi00ODU4LTg2MDUtOTQyNWY2NjFlOGM5L2ltYWdlL2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTExNDQ2MTI@._V1_UY317_CR2,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

 
 

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