What's sad is that the right is already insisting that these teenagers are being 'used' by the left. From what I have seen and heard from these kids, I sure as hell wouldn't want to try to stand in their way. I think the activism can be cathartic for them. I just hope they pace themselves...

What's sad is that the right is already insisting that these teenagers are being 'used' by the left.

Of course they are. This is the usual course of action of the left. Protests, lay downs, marches, sit ins, stifling free speech they don't agree with...these tactics are their stock in trade and they are proud of it. The doofus destroying his own gun is another left wing staged event. Who's paying for it all

Of course they are.

So you think that 'the left' is coaching these kids. Obtuse. 

This is the usual course of action of the left. Protests, lay downs, marches, sit ins,

It seems to me that the Tea Party did their share of all of the above. Hypocrisy. 

stifling free speech they don't agree with...

WHOSE 'free speech' have they stifled? Please be specific. 

these tactics are their stock in trade and they are proud of it.

Did it slip your mind that the right to assemble and the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances is in the Constitution. 

The doofus destroying his own gun is another left wing staged event.

You're projecting. 

Who's paying for it all.

WHO CARES? Do y'all care what the NRA gets for all the millions they spend? 

The bras burned in the 60's for women's rights didn't hurt anyone either.  That and the guy destroying his AR were both a form of protest IMO.

To me, a genuine hero was the teacher who stood in front of his students and took the shots meant for the students.  If there were such a thing as a "Brady Award" he would deserve it posthumously.

An unabashedly great and enviable hero. We should all be afforded the honor to die with that degree of heroism. We all owe his family the most sincere condolences. His children should always know that their father died a true American hero. 

An unabashedly great and enviable hero. We should all be afforded the honor to die with that degree of heroism.

Every teacher is LIVING in that degree of heroism every day. They all KNOW what could happen, they all do 'active shooter' drills. They've all played the scenario in their head and they all PLAN to take a bullet for their/our kids. 

I cannot imagine what it must be like to be a teacher, hearing the fire alarm, wondering what or WHO is awaiting them in the hallway. Do I take my kids outside? Do I wait? Do I hide them? 

WTF have we come to? 

I cannot imagine what it must be like to be a teacher, hearing the fire alarm, wondering what or WHO is awaiting them in the hallway. Do I take my kids outside? Do I wait? Do I hide them?

Since the kids are already born you're supposed to yell "every man for himself" and then run.

Three junior ROTC cadets who were killed in the Florida high school shooting last week will be honored with heroism medals by the U.S. Army.

A spokesman for the U.S. Army told Fox News on Tuesday that Cadet Command approved Junior ROTC Heroism Medals for cadets Alaina Petty, Peter Wang and Martin Duque.

sunrisepost365 @sunrisepost365

It is with broken hearts that Sunrise Post 365 & Stoneman Douglas JROTC shares the loss of our soaring eagles! We honor them, and will miss their courage, tenacity, and their smiles! Cadet Peter Wang, Cadet Martin Duque, and Cadet Alaina Petty. May they always soar high!

The family of Petty, 14, were presented the medal during her funeral service Monday, at which more than 1,500 people attended to pay their respects.

Wang’s family received his medal at his service Tuesday morning.

According to students and teachers, Wang, 15, died in his junior ROTC uniform while helping students, teachers and staff escape from the shooting rampage.

An online  petition  to the White House sought to give Wang military honors at his funeral. It had more than 43,700 signatures as of Tuesday.

“His selfless and heroic actions have led to the survival of dozens in the area. Wang died a hero, and deserves to be treated as such, and deserves a full honors military burial,” the petition said.

The Army spokesman said the family has requested Wang be buried in his junior ROTC uniform.

“The JROTC Heroism medal will be on his uniform, but a second ‘keepsake’ medal will be given to his family,” Michael Maddox, told Fox News in an email.

Additionally, the U.S. Military Academy West Point is posthumously admitting Wang, who dreamed of attending the prestigious academy, Fox News confirme

"It was an appropriate way for USMA to honor this brave young man," the academy said in a statement. "West Point has given posthumous offers of admissions in very rare instances for those candidates or potential candidate's whose actions exemplified the tenets of Duty, Honor and Country."

The family of 13-year-old Duque will receive the medal on Saturday during his funeral services.

Maddox said awards for other possible cadets are going through a review process.

“However, the immediate focus right now is on supporting the funerals with dignity and honor, so deserved by these cadets and their families,” he added.

All three students were killed by shooter Nikolas Cruz, an ex-JROTC member, when he opened fire at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School last Wednesday. Cruz killed 17 people during the spree.

On Tuesday, Florida Gov. Rick Scott said he had directed the Florida National Guard to honor the three students.

“@FLGuard members will be attending funeral services and paying respect to these JROTC members, their families and loved ones,” he tweeted.

The JROTC Heroism Medal is a U.S. military decoration awarded by the Department of the Army to JROTC cadets whose performance “involved the acceptance of danger and extraordinary responsibilities, exemplifying praiseworthy fortitude and courage.”

Way too young. This saddens me mightily

I am in tears reading your post.  Every honor that can be given should be given to these incredibly brave young people.  I wish they could receive the CMOH as well.

To me, a genuine hero was the teacher who stood in front of his students and took the shots meant for the students.

At least one of the kids did that too when he locked and barricaded the classroom door while being shot 5 times.    He's lucky to have survived.

nbcnews

Agreed.

These young people have every right to express their feeling, they are living it and will have to deal with this in the coming years. 

From what I've seen and heard from them, they are passionate, eloquent and committed. I salute them. 

Hear ! Hear ! Kavika !

They are being sought out by the media, propped up and featured in an endless series of prolonged news specials, making endless speeches. For liberals & the liberal media, there is that tingle up the leg. For those too young to remember the late 60's - here we go again!

Sure Vic....Sorry you can't accept that the students have a legit concern.

BTW, I do remember the 60's. 24 of those months were in Vietnam...And yes, after I got back to the world I protested a lot of things. 

What were you doing in the 60's?

.Sorry you can't accept that the students have a legit concern.

They may, but it appears they are being used for political reasons.

Do you disagree?

They may, but it appears they are being used for political reasons.

They may!!!...Their school was shot up, 14 students and 3 teachers were killed and a dozen more wounded and you say ''they may''. 

So, the students have the final word on this? 

You see, just like the sudden student movement, opponents of gun control were very effective over years in preventing much change in gun laws. They like the students were a vocal minority - a one issue group, which was active in lobbying their representatives.

The students should accomplish more - they got the media on their side.

The President should propose a law to enforce background checks, raise the age for the purchase of weapons nationally and outlaw the sale of assault rifles....then toss it over to Congress. That would be an interesting move, wouldn't it?

They may!!!...Their school was shot up,

In other words if everybody dosen't agree with their solution/demands it would show a lack of compassion?

Your liberalism is showing again

The President should propose a law to enforce background checks, raise the age for the purchase of weapons nationally and outlaw the sale of assault rifles....then toss it over to Congress. That would be an interesting move, wouldn't it?

It certainly would be interesting, considering a quarter of these young folks will be voting in 2018, and three quarters of them will be voting in 2020.  I would say to Congress....ignore these common-sense measures, and thus, putting the safety of our kids in schools on the back burner, at your peril!!  Your votes will be remembered!  Your apparent lack of concern for their safety in favor of pandering to the the gun lobby will be evident to these young people, and they will act through the ballet box.

So, the students have the final word on this?

No where did I say that. If you can't debate don't try making shit up. 

I said I supported their right to protest, which is a very old American tradition and right. Are you not aware of that, Vic?

The students should accomplish more - they got the media on their side.

Hopefully it will bring about a serious discussion on guns and measure that can help stop the killing without violating the 2nd amendment. Are you not in favor of that, Vic?

The President should propose a law to enforce background checks, raise the age for the purchase of weapons nationally and outlaw the sale of assault rifles....then toss it over to Congress. That would be an interesting move, wouldn't it?

Yes it would.

In other words if everybody dosen't agree with their solution/demands it would show a lack of compassion?

Wow, your imagination is out of control...Again, please show me where I said that.

Your liberalism is showing again

Thank you.

Hopefully it will bring about a serious discussion on guns and measure that can help stop the killing without violating the 2nd amendment. Are you not in favor of that, Vic?

Of course I'm in favor of that. The discussion of "GUNS" and NOTHING BUT GUNS should produce more gun restrictions. We shall see if you are right.

In other words if everybody dosen't agree with their solution/demands it would show a lack of compassion?

Those who would deny them the right to advocate for themselves certainly do show a lack of compassion, even if they do so under the guise of "protecting them" from "exploitation".

From what I've seen and heard of these kids, they're nobody's fools.  I don't think they're being used.  They're being heard, and that makes some people very uncomfortable.

From what I've seen and heard of these kids, they're nobody's fools.  I don't think they're being used.

You don't?

I find them to be unusually articulate. Why do you think none of the featured speakers had anything to say about the assigned officer not responding or the FBI not following up on an obvious lunatic?

I'd say it would be hard to coach them on every question they'll get from the media.

I imagine they aren't talking about the officer or the FBI because they have no intention of letting the conversation be deflected.  They've shown as much several times now.  The issue as they see it is that highly lethal weapons are far too easy to get.  But they know that some folks will predictably turn "it shouldn't be so easy for an obviously violent and unstable person to get an AR-15" into "take all the guns", because that's what happens every time the issue of gun control comes up.  They're controlling the narrative. 

I'd say it would be hard to coach them on every question they'll get from the media.

This morning on ABC's "This WeeK" one of them was on the show saying the "system was broken". Now where have we heard that term before. He was awesome, looked directly into the camera, no stage fright, and he could have spoken on the subject for hours. 

They're controlling the narrative.

Oh yes, absolutely - and with all the help the media can give.

The liberal media is controlling the narrative. Hopefully the conservative media gives some airtime to the kids who hold the opposing views because you know the liberal media won’t allow it. 

Do you seriously think they can be trained out of any stage fright or nervousness in a few days' time?  I doubt it.  Yes, I think it's entirely possible that the YouTube generation might be comfortable in front of a video camera.

You're resentful that they're not being led down another conversational path?  That they're not allowing the conversation to devolve into the same false dichotomy that it usually does?  Tough.

Frankly, it makes me more hopeful for our future that we are raising a generation of kids who are thoughtful, articulate, and willing to call a spade a spade.

From what I've seen and heard of these kids, they're nobody's fools. 

It was only a few weeks ago that the media was reporting about thousands of high school teens ingesting Tide Pods. For CNN to so quickly trot out teens and exploit who experienced the worst thing they will (hopefully) ever experience was horrible. Did you notice how many of them only focused on the left-wing mantra of "more gun control" and "more gun laws"? Neither would have stopped a Nikolas Cruz, btw, because the FBI, school district personnel, sheriff's office, and local police ALL FAILED, 

I don't think they're being used.  

There are plenty of reports that CNN scripted Parkland survivors for that townhall. Pretty amazing that a couple of those survivors attacked Rubio and Dana Loesch but didn't attack Sheriff Israel - the guy whose FOUR ARMED cops were too chicken to enter the building and take out the active shooter. 

They're being heard, 

Yes, President Trump and many others listened very intently and are still listening to them.  

and that makes some people very uncomfortable.

Who?

Do you seriously think they can be trained out of any stage fright or nervousness in a few days' time?

No, it was just an observation. To me it's really amazing in the difference in a few generations. I can recall entertainers who were shaking in the ankles before going on stage, while these kids almost have to be dragged from the spotlight. I'm not saying it's all that rare, I guess you have be a little full of yourself to be that comfortable in front of the camera.

You're resentful that they're not being led down another conversational path?  That they're not allowing the conversation to devolve into the same false dichotomy that it usually does? 

What I don't appreciate is that they are putting forth a narrative, in total unison/group think, which the media & liberals have been unable to advance for decades. BTW, do you remember during the first Obama term, when democrats had control of congress, that there was a bill to ban assault weapons?  It failed to pass - because 12 democrats in the Senate voted NO. The reason for that isnt the NRA or lobbying. It isnt even that most people oppose it. It is because that those who oppose gun restrictions are a one issue constituency, who are very active when it comes to calling their representatives. That is what has always stopped the gun control movement.

Frankly, it makes me more hopeful for our future that we are raising a generation of kids who are thoughtful, articulate, and willing to call a spade a spade.

I would be inclined to agree with you, if only I saw a little bit of diversity of thought. Unfortunately, they look like followers rather than leaders.

It was only a few weeks ago that the media was reporting about thousands of high school teens ingesting Tide Pods.

That obviously doesn't include these kids, now does it?  "Thousands of high school teens" are not all high school teens.  Aren't you glad they're not all that stupid, or does that not fit your narrative?

There are plenty of reports that CNN scripted Parkland survivors for that townhall.

And there are plenty of reports that those reports are false.

Pretty amazing that a couple of those survivors attacked Rubio and Dana Loesch but didn't attack Sheriff Israel - the guy whose FOUR ARMED cops were too chicken to enter the building and take out the active shooter. 

Perhaps they should.  It would put paid to that whole "good guy with a gun" mythos.

Yes, President Trump and many others listened very intently and are still listening to them.  

Only because his notes reminded him to do so.

Who?

Offhand, I'd say the people threatening them with death, rather proving their point.

To me it's really amazing in the difference in a few generations.

Like I said, YouTube.  Cameras aren't seen as unusual or intimidating anymore.  When I grew up, video cameras were rare.  Now, everybody has one in their pocket, and can become a star because of them (think Justin Bieber, ugh!).

What I don't appreciate is that they are putting forth a narrative, in total unison/group think, which the media & liberals have been unable to advance for decades. BTW, do you remember during the first Obama term, when democrats had control of congress, that there was a bill to ban assault weapons?  It failed to pass - because 12 democrats in the Senate voted NO. The reason for that isnt the NRA or lobbying. It isnt even that most people oppose it. It is because that those who oppose gun restrictions are a one issue constituency, who are very active when it comes to calling their representatives.

So you don't like the fact that their groupthink is competing successfully with an opposing groupthink?

Ok.

And those kids don’t represent the millions of kids that hold opposing views that CNN did not give equal airtime to. 

When Fox news gives equal air time to liberal views, I'll take seriously your indignation that CNN doesn't give equal air time to conservative ones.  But they don't, so I'm not too bothered about it.

Hopefully the conservative media gives some airtime to the kids who hold the opposing views because you know the liberal media won’t allow it.

More likely there are no kids that will have an opinion that the conservative media wants to hear, so their voices will be silenced and the conservative media will feed it's mindless followers what they always feed them; exactly what they want to hear, the truth be damned. 

It's always easy to attack and assume, isn't it, Sandy?  Here's why:

That [Tide Pod Challenge] obviously doesn't include these kids, now does it? 

I don't know, and neither do you.

"Thousands of high school teens" are not all high school teens.  Aren't you glad they're not all that stupid, or does that not fit your narrative?

I never said that all high school teens or even the Parkland students engaged in the Tide Pod challenge, but you assumed that is what I believe.  So, you're wrong again.

And there are plenty of reports that those reports are false.

I never said differently. Further investigation will reveal the facts and truth.

Perhaps they should.  It would put paid to that whole "good guy with a gun" mythos.

The on-premises cops clearly proved that they were not "good guys with a gun", because they all hid in cowardice outside of the building instead of performing their sworn duties to "protect and serve" the public. To date, we don't know why they failed to perform their duties. Your point?

Only because his [Trump's] notes reminded him to do so.

Many public speakers use notes, even Obama. Your point?

Attacking and assuming seems to be a popular MO.

Tide pods.

Crisis actors.

Coached.

Yeah, but that's all on me 

When Fox news gives equal air time to liberal views,

You've apparently not seen the (late) Alan Colmes, Bob Beckle, Donna Brazile, John Podesta, Dennis Kucinich, Leslie Marshall, Kirsten Powers, Joe Trippi, Juan Williams, and Shep Smith among many others on FNC and/or FBC.

Sandy, I'm not going to engage in your attempted circular logic. I never referenced Parkland, FL students to ...

• Tide pods
• crisis actors

so why did you include them in a comment to me?

Jasper,  many of the liberals that try to put down FOX news have never even seen Fox News. Someone else told them it was "bad" and they just parrot others remarks. Blindly doing what others tell them to do and/or say is a strong liberal trait. 

many of the liberals that try to put down FOX news have never even seen Fox News

LOL.    How can one avoid seeing that crap?    It's even on the boob tube at your local McDonald's.

LOL.    How can one avoid seeing that crap [Fox News Channel]?    It's even on the boob tube at your local McDonald's.

Seriously? HAH! The left's CNN/MSNBC "safe spaces" monopolize airports, medical/dental offices, hospitals,  convenience stores, and fast food joints like McDonalds/Burger King. 

Sorry to inform you but I have had and I have seen and heard liberal admit to just what I was saying. 

When your response to a quote from my comment includes Tide pods, most reasonable people would take that to mean that you are generalizing the Tide Pod challenge to these kids.  Frankly, you come across as wanting to have it both ways - attacking these kids on the basis of belonging to the Tide Pod generation, but not wanting to take responsibility for that attack, which you then attempted to deflect onto me.

Not working.

Go anywhere in the Bible belt and if there is a TV it will be tuned to Fox News. All the TVs on the base are tuned to Fox News by order of the base commander. Every restaurant that I go into is either sports or Fox News.

I guess if you live in the liberal North East and are unhappy with the politics in the area, you will only see CNN/MSNBC on TVs

What has that got to do with my comment that you only see Fox News in the south?

You just had to bash liberals, didn't you? Can't go an hour without it, it's like crack to you

Go anywhere in the Bible belt and if there is a TV it will be tuned to Fox News. All the TVs on the base are tuned to Fox News by order of the base commander. Every restaurant that I go into is either sports or Fox News.

Exactly.    The GOP's Pravda is everywhere up here in WI too.

They are being sought out by the media, propped up and featured in an endless series of prolonged news specials

I've noticed the same thing-- the news media has this strange tendency to engage in...reporting the news!

/sarc

(What would have them do-- avoid reporting on major news stories????)

The tragedy of the school shooting in Parkland is horrific enough to occur in a nation of our stature. 

Unfortunately, there are some in the White House who viewed it as a 'reprieve'.   On a grand scale, which is more horrific?

Did you know there was a West Wing episode in which the exact same thing happened?  Oh, boy, howdy, did "CJ" get pummeled but it was a major scandal for "President Bartlett's administration."  Of course in that fictional world, it was a Democratic administration so they were held accountable and got pummeled.  We know when it happens in real life and it's a Republican thing (particularly this Mar-a-LagoShitbag® thing) it turns out to be just a minor ripple compared to all the other atrocities that have mounted up.  This will almost certainly get a "pass" on the very steep grading curve that is allowed for Republicans. 

It already has.  GOPERS always skate.  Even fake GOPERS like Trump.

I think what said it all for me was the small protest at the White House yesterday, when I saw someone with a sign saying "Teachers Against Guns".  

Yeah, well I guess if your profession had been the target of dozens of lethal attacks you might have a different opinion.  On that subject, we have to consider what decades of attacks by rightwingers on this profession might be contributing to this deadly phenomenon. 

Yeah, well I guess if your profession had been the target of dozens of lethal attacks you might have a different opinion.

Whatever my opinion, I don't instill it in the impressionable minds that I'd be entrusted with as a teacher.

On that subject, we have to consider what decades of attacks by rightwingers on this profession might be contributing to this deadly phenomenon. 

Well, the Teachers Union has aligned itself with the democratic party and teachers within higher education have been indoctrinating students in liberal ideology for decades, so they've earned the criticism & the animosity they get.

I think what said it all for me was the small protest at the White House yesterday, when I saw someone with a sign saying "Teachers Against Guns".

What did that say to you? 

People that age don't know what they don't know yet.   I'm not saying don't listen to them but it's pretty obtuse and disingenuous to think they have figured out some magic answer to all this.

Case in point listening to some of them blame Trump and only Trump.   That is purely partisan driven.   Not unlike what you see from some in here.   I have no doubt that is how the kid feels but i would have respected his opinion more if he had included the failure of the school/law enforcement/fellow students/parents/etc to recognize and deal with the shooter who was obviously angry enough to do such a vile thing but no.  

This is all Trumps fault and all the guns fault.   A judgement i'm sure driven mainly by emotion and justifiably so but still. a very sophomoric and incomplete analysis of cause and effect.   Just about what one would expect from a high school aged person.

Again, at that age none of us knew what we didn't know but all you had to do was ask us and we would tell you how smart we were.

 a very sophomoric and incomplete analysis of cause and effect. Just about what one would expect from a high school aged person.

Yet ironically, the SAME age that the shooter was when he was allowed to purchase a weapon of mass destruction.  

Not really.   Is it ironic that kids that age are in charge of squads in combat patrols all over the world right now?

That said i personally have no problem with raising the age to 21 like handguns.   Don't think it will change much but i'd support it as long as anyone between the age of 18 and 21, who is or has served honorably in the US military, is exempt and can purchase one if they so choose.

If you're old enough to die for your country, you are most definitely old enough to own a weapon like an AR-15.

Not really.

Yes really. 

Is it ironic that kids that age are in charge of squads in combat patrols all over the world right now?

No. Thank you for making my point for me...

People that age don't know what they don't know yet.

And yet they sound far more mature, intelligent, well-informed and courageous (exponentially more courageous) than the gun freak assholes who are attacking them.  I wonder how many death threats (not whether there are any because that's a given) they've received.

And yet they sound far more mature, intelligent, well-informed and courageous (exponentially more courageous) than the gun freak assholes who are attacking them.  I wonder how many death threats (not whether there are any because that's a given) they've received.

Hmmmm i guess you don't know what you don't know yet either.   But i already knew that so sincere apologies for being needlessly repetitive.

But i already knew that so sincere apologies for being needlessly repetitive.

Obtuse, you forgot needlessly obtuse. 

Guess those kids that are squad leaders of combat patrols don't know what they don't know yet either. Sheesh. 

C.mon man, you gotta spin better than that.   Golly and gee-willikers

Those squad leaders get the training they need from qualified superiors before they get the honor of leading other men and women.   So yeah, before they get that responsibility they learn what they need to know.   That's how it works in the military or at least how it supposed to work.   Things are hardly perfect there either.  

Unqualified buffons sometimes make it to leadership positions there as well.

C.mon man, you gotta spin better than that. Golly and gee-willikers

You're the one who spun them into this, not I. 

Those squad leaders get the training they need from qualified superiors before they get the honor of leading other men and women. So yeah, before they get that responsibility they learn what they need to know. That's how it works in the military or at least how it supposed to work. Things are hardly perfect there either.  

Again, you are the one who originally equated them with the shooter and the victims, not I. 

Unqualified buffons sometimes make it to leadership positions there as well.

Hence our 'Commander in Chief'. 

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I'm not saying don't listen to them but it's pretty obtuse and disingenuous to think they have figured out some magic answer to all this.

If you were part of a juggling group who kept getting their fingers chopped off because the group leader insisted on juggling active chain saws, and some of the new jugglers suggested juggling bowling pins instead, you could say "Ha! What do these youngsters know about juggling chainsaws?!" and you'd be right, they probably don't know a lot about juggling chainsaws, but they don't have to be rocket scientists to put 2 + 2 together and suggest juggling something less dangerous.

These kids aren't suggesting taking all guns away, they aren't asking to tear up the 2nd amendment. All I've heard from them so far has been suggestions of sensible gun legislation such as universal background checks, magazine capacity limits and restrictions on the sale of some military style weapons. These kids don't have to be rocket scientists to see that better background checks and mental health checks might have prevented this lunatic from buying a weapon, and they also see that the weapon of choice for nearly every mass shooter has been an assault rifle like the AR-15. So they are asking themselves the sensible question of "What could we have done better, what can we do to prevent more incidents like this?". By refusing to even have that discussion you've already conceded defeat.

By refusing to even have that discussion you've already conceded defeat.

No one is saying that.   At least not me.   When emotion gets in the way i guess reading comprehension tends to suffer.   This is what i said and i quote after YOU quoted me:

I'm not saying don't listen to them

How that comment graduates to "refusing to have a discussion" is a trick only a fringe dweller will attempt to pass off as the truth.  

How that comment graduates to "refusing to have a discussion" is a trick only a fringe dweller will attempt to pass off as the truth.

It wasn't the "I'm not saying don't listen to them" part that I was objecting to, it was considering them "obtuse and disingenuous". You basically said "I'm not saying don't listen to them, but hey, why should be listen to them? They're obtuse and disingenuous." That is refusing to have the discussion by labeling their opinion as invalid even before the discussion begins.

Nope, that’s a fail on more than one level but at least you got a bunch of votes from you’re fellow bullshit partisans

So you’ve got that going for you.    Hooray for you and your partisan drones.    Now back to the hive for more instructions.   Giddy yup worker drones!,

People that age don't know what they don't know yet.

Well if that's the way they are-- why do you think they are wise enough to own a gun?

(Especially one like the AR-15) 

Who said they weren’t wise enough to own a gun?    Not me.     Like many adults, some can safely own a gun and some can’t.

I’d post all the reasons that disqualifies a person, young or old, from owning a weapon right now but I know it would be lost you since you aren’t listening.    Not really.

Here is another brave kid that deserves some recognition. 

nypost

Here's a hero toddler:

independent.co.uk

Not even close to being in the same universe as the same thing.

The Wal-Mart woman shot was an idiot. She should have had the safety on and been in control of her purse at all times if she was carrying in it.

Sounds like the hero saved the entire Walmart from an idiot with a gun.

Oh, yeah, because a mom of 3 or 4 is a prime suspect to go nuts and commit a mass shooting.

SMDH

Who knows what an idiot like that is capable of?   In fact didn't the last right wing husband & wife team to shoot up a Walmart have a couple of kids?

In any even that toddler courageously saved the lives of hundreds of Walmart shoppers.

if it makes you feel all safe and snuggly to believe that, have fun!

Oh, yeah, because a mom of 3 or 4 is a prime suspect to go nuts and commit a mass shooting.

OOPS...

dailymail.co.uk

Wow.

 You found one!!!!

Congrats.

By posting only one example, you have proved my point precisely---a woman with kids is NOT a prime candidate to commit mass shooting events.

Obviously, any one CAN commit these heinous acts. But I bet you that when investigating, cops aren't looking at moms in MOST cases.

idiot libtards

Does the new COH say anything about that? (I don't know, I haven't read it yet).

Is the period* key broken on your computer?

*This is what a period looks like:  .   It is used to indicate the end of a sentence. 

I do believe the updated CoH will prohibit the use of such words.

So everybody better get their libtards and rethuglicans out of their systems

Here is another brave kid that deserves some recognition.

Interesting follow up on that event.  The woman who drove the three to the house and was to be the getaway driver was later charged with their murders.  That's pretty weird  since she didn't pull the trigger.  So, if those three killings were considered murders, it's a fascinating why the actual shooter wasn't considered for his role in their deaths.  Almost as if the gun had no human attached to it.  I could see a case for a  manslaughter charge.  But even then she wasn't even in the room when the killings took place.  But, it is OK where the wild west still rules it seems.  Here's the testimony of the shooter:

Peters testified all three suspects froze when they saw him standing in the doorway. He says he feared for his life and was worried they had a weapon.

When asked if the suspects tried to hurt him, Peters says he didn't give them the time to.

He shot the suspect closest to him first and then says he worked his way across the room, until all three intruders had been shot.

Sounds pretty cold-blooded, doesn't it?  No wonder rightwingers consider him a "hero."   The intruders were unarmed, of course.

No wonder rightwingers consider him a "hero."

If a fertilized egg appears in a woman's body conservatives are ready to defend it with their lives regardless of what the woman wants. If an unarmed child walks onto your property conservatives are ready to gun the child down no questions asked. Quite the double standard they have when it comes to the sanctity of life it seems.

The woman was charged because she committed an illegal act by driving the kids to the house. She was charged with murder because, just like a getaway driver in a bank robbery, if someone in the bank is shot, the driver who remained in the car is also charged with the shooting. Same thing there. The shooter in that case was well within his rights. 

It's always weird to me when people seem more concerned with the rights of criminals in the midst of their crimes instead of the rights of their poor victims. Kudos to the shooter for not laying down and being a victim.

The woman was charged because she committed an illegal act by driving the kids to the house.

But that's not murder, is it.  There are three main (maybe other lesser) categories of homicide: 1. premeditated 2. intentional but not premeditated, and 3. manslaughter or negligent homicide.  They could have (and may have, but I've seen no record of it so far) charged a number of other crimes but put murder first, if not the only one.  We'll see what a jury does with this.  It would take a really bad defense lawyer not to be able to get her off, though.  But, then it probably won't be a particularly good one either as I'm sure she'll have to use a public defender.  I'm not saying she's not guilty of plenty.  But murder?  I wonder if it's based on the killings being so bloodthirsty, mowing down unarmed intruders the second they were seen,  the prosecutors felt they had to do something. The other motivating factor might be she set up and recruited the would-be robbers but, again, that hasn't been stated in any of the reports I've seen so far. 

Update--  I just did find this one sentence from another article written about it shortly after it happened:

"[Police] are looking at it as self-defense but they are also looking at any other possible way that it could be looked at," Mahoney said.

So, initially at least, police had some concerns that it might have not have  been quite as it was presented to them by the shooter. 

Maybe in your state. Not in Oklahoma. OK law states that the person may be charged with murder. And she was.

Suspected Getaway Driver Faces Murder Charges After ... - KTLA
ktla.com/2017/03/28/three-teens-shot-dead-after-breaking-into...

Mar 28, 2017 · Suspected Getaway Driver Faces Murder Charges After 3 Teen Burglars Shot Dead by Oklahoma Resident: Authorities

It does not always go that way even in blood red Oklahoma as evidenced by Jerome Ersland being in prison.

Nothing in the justice system ever goes the same way all the time.

If Ersland had simply stopped after the threat to himself and his property was contained, he'd be free today.

The first shot he fired was justifiable. Shooting a person already injured and laying on the ground unarmed can hardly be considered as self defense.

This isn't the same thing.

I agree Ersland used overkill and deserves his just rewards though he remains a cause celeb for gun rights fanatics. It looks like he may get a reprieve in any case. Oklahoma is gun krazy and pure-D bonkers politically.

newsok

Jerome Ersland taking his case to yet another court

by The Oklahoman Editorial Board Published: January 4, 2018 12:00 AM CDT Updated: January 4, 2018 12:00 AM CDT

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SAY this for Jerome Ersland — he's willing to try just about anything to prove his innocence, as he's doing with his latest appeal.

Ok, we agree on overkill.

But this isn't the same case or same circumstances.

if someone in the bank is shot, the driver who remained in the car is also charged with the shooting.

Then your challenge is to find a single case where a getaway driver in a bank robbery was charged with murder if one of the bank robbers was killed in the attempt.

Why?

It is Oklahoma law. 

Look it up yourself if you want an example.

OK law states that the person may be charged with murder.

That's a meaningless statement.   It's true of every state.  Getting charged with something is easy. Prosecutors will charge whatever they want.  Getting a conviction could be another thing altogether.  I wonder how the prosecution will convince a jury that she knew the three robbers were going to get shot.  I guess we'll see.

they don't have to prove it. She participated in a felony.

A person can be charged with murder because they set a chain of events in motion--in this case, the driver drove the people shot to the house to rob it.

Charged with murder, but they didn’t kill anyone—police ...
https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/felony-murder-police...

Charged with murder, but they didn’t kill anyone ... (Although Scaggs's case took place prior to the years the Reader examined ... the driver of the car, ...

What is Complicity or Accomplice Liability?
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Complicity is the act of helping or encouraging another individual to commit a crime. It is also commonly referred to as aiding and abetting. One who is complicit is said to be an accomplice. But, even though an accomplice does not actually commit the crime, his or her actions helped someone in the commission of the crime.
The concept of accomplice liability means an accomplice faces the same degree of guilt and punishment as the individual who committed the crime. Indeed, accomplices can face the same penalties, including prison time. The key consideration is whether the individual intentionally and voluntarily encouraged or assisted in the commission of the crime, or (in some cases) failed to prevent it.
See FindLaw's Criminal Charges section for additional articles and resources.
Elements of Accomplice Liability
With some variations, depending onbthe state,ba prosecutor must be able to prove the following four elements in order to convict someone for being an accomplice or aiding and abetting:
A crime was committed by another individual;
The defendant "aided, counseled, commanded, or encouraged" the other person in the commission of the crime.
The defendant acted with the requisite mental state in their jurisdiction,for example, knowingly or purposefully, to assist in the crime (see Mens Rea - A Defendant's Mental State).
Examples of Complicity
The following examples illustrate the many ways an individual may be an accomplice to a criminal act:
Serving as the getaway driver in a bank robbery.
Turning off the alarm system of a jewelry store in which you work, knowing that it will be robbed later that evening.
Loaning a handgun to someone who you know is planning to commit a crime.
Directing a vehicle to a dead-end street where you know an armed carjacker is waiting.
The Difference Between Complicity and Conspiracy
When an individual takes on an active role in the planning of a crime, the crime may instead be one of conspiracy. A conspirator agrees with others to commit a future crime, while an accomplice assists, in some way, in the actual commission of a crime. Furthermore, unlike accomplices to a crime, conspirators can be guilty even if their plan is not completed.
Example: If a group of individuals gets together, agrees to plan and commit a robbery, and takes an overt action to accomplish their plan (e.g. purchasing a car, guns, and tools for the robbery), they could each be charged with the crime of conspiracy to commit robbery, even if the robbery never happens. However, if and when the planned robbery is committed by the individuals, they could be charged with both conspiracy and robbery (as principals or accomplices, depending on their role in the robbery).

It certainly is a good sign when the younger generation shows more class and intelligence than their parents.  Here are some prime examples of the Fla. older generation's response to the tragedy:

Florida House refuses to debate guns, but declares porn dangerous

Host dad who took in accused Fla. shooter: "It's his right" to have an AR-15

A Florida lawmaker's aide called school-shooting survivors 'actors.' Within hours, he was fired.

Unfortunately, the kids and teachers will learn a harsh lesson, dead kids and teachers don't buy air time for campaign ads. Until their corpses can do that, our politicians have far higher priorities. 

Determining policy after a tragedy is exactly when policy should be discussed and, if possible, determined. Every mass casualty shooting in this country has been met with the argument that while we are grieving, the time is not right for determining policy. We therefore never get to policy. Before we get to a lull, there is another mass casualty incident. The argument then repeats itself. We are grieving....this is not the time to implement policy. 

This is the time to move on this issue. There is a national will to move forward. There is a shift in organicity from the dollars that the NRA shoves into the pockets of politicians to the protection of the lives of our young people. That organicity is moving toward life and away from the gun lobby.

Never underestimate the power of youth. Every major organic shift in our policies have come out of the mobilization of youth and young adults. The young people of this country are organizing in ways that have not been seen in decades. They are going to be a formidable voting bloc. Their interests move well beyond liberal or conservative politics.....their cause is their own lives.........It would behoove the money hungry politicians groveling at the laps of the NRA to pay more attention to those who are going to be walking into the voting booths in the next few years. All the NRA dollars in the world are not going to help when these young people vote for candidates who will do something to protect their lives. The NRA doesn't have enough jobs to hire all the out of work politicians that might be coming to them for jobs.

Does this mean you'll let the others know that the big, bad old NRA isn't a threat anymore, and y'all can move onto something else for a while?

Jesus welcomed little children, and the old saying "out of the mouths of babes" is based on kids telling the truth.

If America is ever to be truly great, we cannot lead the world in mass murder. The wasted time over arguing is up.

More guns has NOT solved anything. It's worse.

Wasting time arguing has NOT solved anything.

Blaming a political party has NOT solved anything.

If only adults would focus on solutions, forget partisan politics, and leave powerful lobbyists out of the equation for their obvious bias on the issue, maybe new solutions can come to light.

No new solution can ever be found if the only answer from a lobbyist is "more guns".