"Don't Do It" Versus "Make My Day": Should the President Fire Mueller

The liberals are frothing at the mouth trying to get the President to fire Meuller.  I'm all for letting Meuller chase squrrels.  It pisses off the left that he hasn't fired him yet and it just further proves the  is nothing to "investigate"  and the desperate depths the left have sunk to.

If there is nothing, why all the indictments, the guilty pleas, and the on-going intersections with Russia? My question is and always has been, what do the Russians have on Trump that really is driving all of this? I'm not certain it has anything to do with "fixing" an election. I do think it has a lot to do with illegal money laundering and other financial crimes committed when Trump was a businessman. That would be a reason why Trump may be so ballistic over the raid on Cohen's office. We might find out the answers to my questions there. It may also be why the search warrant came out of New York. That is where Trump's businesses are located and where the criminal activity can be prosecuted.

If there is nothing, why all the indictments, the guilty pleas, and the on-going intersections with Russia?

How many of those are for collusion?  None.  There is nothing to "investigate".

check your law books...... collusion is not a crime.....obstruction of justice is.....consorting with a foreign government to change the result of an election is.....money laundering is.... bank fraud is......let's see what eventually comes out of the investigation......like Yogi said.....'It ain't over 'til it's over".

There is nothing to "investigate".

collusion is not a crime.....obstruction of justice is.....consorting with a foreign government to change the result of an election is.....money laundering is.... bank fraud is......let's see what eventually comes out of the investigation

And you proof of all this is where again?  Oh that's right.  It doesn't exist in regards to the President.  There is nothing to "investigate".  But Meuller will keep the farce going anyway.

There is nothing to "investigate".

Are we playing 9 Degrees?

I don't pretend to know what Mueller and his people know....but neither do you. All I'm doing is listing the potential real crimes that the special counsel might be investigating. The indictment of the Russians and four of Trump's cronies has to lead the outside observer to believe that the special counsel is looking at least at a few of them. You would have to be blind or a two year old not to at least consider this as a legitimate line of inquiry.

You would have to be blind or a two year old not to at least consider this as a legitimate line of inquiry.

That's why he's a Trump supporter.

I'm all for letting Meuller chase squrrels.

Delusional.  How many indictments has Mueller issued through the Grand Jury?  How many guilty pleas?  

AND here's the BIG question, how many of Trump's election team and administration have now admitted to working with Russians after lying about it originally?

Delusional.

Delusional is keeping an investigation going when all parties involved admitted there is nothing.  But that's how the left works so let him chase squirrels.

Delusional is keeping an investigation going when all parties involved admitted there is nothing.

Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Popadopalous and Gates' lawyer, plus 15 russian hackers... That's a WHOLE lot of nothing. 

AND here's the BIG question, how many of Trump's election team and administration have now admitted to working with Russians after lying about it originally?

I have a list....

eating his way up the food chain.......Trump will be the last to be indicted......it will come

How many indictments have been issued for Trump.

None, YET...

how many of Trump's election team and administration have now admitted to working with Russians after lying about it originally?

I don't know. How many have admitted to doing so, and in what capacity?

By my count at least three.

esquire

theguardian

thinkprogress

Ooops my bad, four.

How many indictments have been issued for Trump.

None yet, you mean.

Plus, investigating Trump and only Trump, was never the basis for the investigation.  It was to determine the extent of the Russian meddling and determine if there was any collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia.

You can keep trying to move the goalposts all you want, it will not effect Mueller's investigation.

Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Popadopalous and Gates' lawyer, plus 15 russian hackers

Don't forget at least 5 Russian hookers with full bladders.

Delusional is keeping an investigation going when all parties involved admitted there is nothing.

Only 1 party involved keeps saying over and over and over and over and over, that there is nothing to the investigation, and that is Trump himself.

Don't forget at least 5 Russian hookers with full bladders.

Correction, with formerly full bladders...

eating his way up the food chain.......Trump will be the last to be indicted......it will come

And Mueller is getting closer all the time. Trump is getting more and more scared and is striking out, which is why he wants to fire Mueller. He doesn't want what Mueller knows and is learning from the last 20+ years of being Donald Trump to become public.

Only the people who worked at his behest....like the mafia Don running his family. You get the low level rats to flip and eventually the biggest rat gets caught in the trap. The slime that Mueller is indicting will give him Trump. 

The FACT is there have been NO Trump indictments.

Again, this is not that singular of an investigation.

THE FACT IS THAT there HAVE BEEN Trump Administration indictments.

THE FACT IS THAT there HAVE BEEN Trump Campaign indictments.

Tick, tock, tick, tock

Don't forget at least 5 Russian hookers with full bladders.

Deleted - CoC violation {SP}   address issues and arguments, not individual members.

Pure speculation. The fact is there have been ZERO Trump indictments

Is the investigation over? No. Calm down. 

removed for context.

Marge43 was in fact a man, as noted when skrekk first joined NT.   Marge43 never claimed to be a woman.

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removed for context

Sounds like you're blaming Trump's hooker and golden showers habit on me.    That's just ignorant.

I'm all for letting Meuller chase squrrels.

He has already caught 15, and Cohen will be charged shortly. They would not have gone through all the trouble of a no knock raid if they didn't already have some pretty solid proof that Cohen is guilty. Also, Mueller knew that raiding Cohen would be a HUGE media splash, again, no way he would have done it without some proof of wrong doing. Also, the fact that trumps asshole slammed shut and he freaked the fuck out, tells you that he knows HE is fucked as well. 

He has already caught 15

And none for what he was to be investigating.  All 15 are bullshit that are normal day to day duties in D.C.

And none for what he was to be investigating.  All 15 are bullshit that are normal day to day duties in D.C.

That's like saying, "Well, I got pulled over for speeding, but the cop arrested me because I was drunk too!!! They can't do that!!!!". Mueller is following the evidence where ever it leads, that's what investigators do. He isn't going to ignore a crime JUST because it's not what he is investigating. Trump is a criminal, just like the rest of his corrupt staff. Lock all those assholes up. And tell me, Jeremy... If everything was exactly the same, and it was Hillary, and not trump as POTUS, would you be calling bullshit? Never in a million fucking years. 

And none for what he was to be investigating.  All 15 are bullshit that are normal day to day duties in D.C.

Don't pretend like you wouldn't be demanding Hillary be arrested if this many of her campaign team had been indicted or plead guilty. You wouldn't be parsing some "but it wasn't for collusion" BS, you'd be screaming for her head. 

the republicans would have already started impeachment procedures. They wouldn't wait for Mueller to finish an investigation.

Almost all them Russian operatives that can't ever be prosecuted.

Almost all them Russian operatives that can't ever be prosecuted.

How do you know?  Are you one of them???

My question is if any of them are on the Clinton rolodex?

You think Manafort may have passed them on to Clinton?  Didn't even know that they knew each other.

Don't pretend like you wouldn't be demanding Hillary be arrested if this many of her campaign team had been indicted or plead guilty.

I'll pretend that when you stop pretending Meuller isn't a farce.

Mueller is following the evidence where ever it leads

Selectively.  

I'll pretend that when you stop pretending Meuller isn't a farce.

Given that there are already a number of pea deals and indictments it seem that he's doing his job very well.

how quickly the Trump supporters forget that this is a republican investigation initiated by republicans and staffed up and down with republicans. Just because they aren't drinking the Trump Kool-Aid doesn't mean that its a democratic plot. The special counsel is supposed to be independent. That means not licking Trump's rear and telling the world that it tastes like chocolate when the truth is that it tastes like the crap it is.

Selectively.

You know this how? Alex Jones? Are you on Mueller's team? Taking a wild guess? Telling yourself that because it fits your agenda? Do tell, HOW do you know? 

Selectively.

Proof to back up your claim????

I'll wait....

Given that there are already a number of pea deals and indictments it seem that he's doing his job very well.

Given none of them are for collusion, I'd say he's sucking wind.

There's no collusion, Jeremy, you and Trump got us.  There's conspiracy, obstruction of justice, bank fraud, and money laundering, but there is no, let me repeat, NO collusion, none whatsoever.  You and Trump need not worry about collusion, no siree!

Given none of them are for collusion, I'd say he's sucking wind.

Who said the investigation was ever about collusion? Also, no collusion? If there was no collusion why then...

1) Did trump lie when he said, "Not me, or anyone on my campaign had any meetings with any Russians!!!"? 

2) Why did all these people LIE over and over again about meetings with the Russians, if there was nothing illegal going on and, "no collusion"? 

Can you explain that? I mean, I could understand if one or two lied about the meetings, but these people lied from Trump, all the way down, they ALL lied. Again, can you explain that? And again, I will ask you, if Clinton had won and all of this information was exactly the same, would you be saying, "well, they have found nothing, shut the investigation down!!!!"? No FUCKING way you would be saying that. The right wing would be calling for her head and screaming about the mountains of evidence... But since it's trumpy? "What? I don't see anything at all!!!! All fake news!!!!!! Mueller is a liberal!!!!!! It's all lies, a witch hunt!!!!!!!!!!"

Your denial of all of this evidence, PILES of it, tells us just how blind the right is to crimes when it comes to their own fucking party. 

Given none of them are for collusion, I'd say he's sucking wind.

Please cite which statute you're referring to.

Given none of them are for collusion, I'd say he's sucking wind.

His mandate is also to investigate for Obstruction of Justice, not just collusion. Why do people on the right keep forgetting that part? Oh and he is also free and expected to investigate any other crimes he may run across while investigating collusion and obstruction and he has run across many, many other crimes and following them has caused him to run across even more.  He ran across one that was too far from his mandate, so he tossed it off to the Southern District of NY, who already had an investigation of Micheal Cohen in progress, but Mueller information helped make their case. That's the way good honest Federal Investigations work. That's how they are supposed to work. That's their job! That's what we pay them for! I am proud of how professional they are being!

There's conspiracy, obstruction of justice, bank fraud, and money laundering,

That's pretty far from what Meuller's team was appointed for.  But I know, you will tell me that he is to look into wrong doing.  Basically, it's a witch hunt because the left, liberals and Democrats don't like him.  

Now I think about it.  Seems that positions have reversed.  With the investigation into Clinton's wrong doing in Lybia you all screamed there is nothing there.  Now, with Trump you are asserting (the same way many did with Benghazi) that there is something there when there isn't.

There's conspiracy, obstruction of justice, bank fraud, and money laundering,

That's pretty far from what Meuller's team was appointed for.

How so?   It sounds exactly within the current scope of his mandate..

The difference is that Secretary Clinton was investigated at least 6 times on Benghazi by your Republican friends.  Not 1 indictment of anyone. Compare that with the disaster around Trump.  Now we're hearing that Cohen had tapes. If so, you'll be able to visit the whole Trump mob in Attica. 

Mueller better having something more than a payment to a porn star. If they are kicking down doors and taking docs from the President's lawyer  for what might be a technical violation of campaign finance law, than the backlash will be huge. The Obama DOJ ignored millions in illegal donations to the Obama campaign, to use these tactics over a possible violation would be an abuse of power. 

The ante has been upped the last few days. Mueller and the DOJ better have a bombshell of all bombshells to justify their tactics. Given his track record of hounding and destroying the life of an innocent man in the anthrax investigation fiasco, it's no sure thing Mueller can run a competent investigation that doesn't go overboard in pursuit of a personal vendetta. 

Look at my response above. It also applies to what you are saying. This has to do with criminal actions. Every step of the way was reviewed and sent forward by republicans and people that Trump appointed. It was approved by a judge who knew he was allowing a search warrant that was unprecedented. None of that would have occurred if there was nothing or little there. 

Everyone better hold tight to their horses. This is going to be a wild ride.

Morning DocPhil

None of that would have occurred if there was nothing or little there.

The same was said about a FISA warrant on Carter Page.

The thing about Mueller's 'counterintelligence' investigation is that he was given carte blanche/complete freedom as Special Counsel on the scope of the investigation.... I certainly offer NO defense of, to nor for the current President, yet..... I did have to do some reading a while back in order to have a better understanding of 'The Special Counsel's' counterintelligence investigation -- does not seem to me like there has to anything to even investigate, nor can 'unprecedented' actions be seen as actual evidence of a 'crime' when one is on a fishing expedition the size and scope of the Mueller investigation....

Inside the FBI’s Counterintelligence Program

The FBI has been responsible for identifying and neutralizing ongoing national security threats from foreign intelligence services since 1917, nine years after the Bureau was created in 1908. The FBI’s Counterintelligence Division, which is housed within the National Security Branch, has gone through a lot of changes over the years, and throughout the Cold War the division changed its name several times. But foiling and countering the efforts of the Soviet Union and other communist nations remained the primary mission.

While the Counterintelligence Division continues to neutralize national security threats from foreign intelligence services, its modern-day mission is much broader. The FBI is the lead agency for exposing, preventing, and investigating intelligence activities on U.S. soil, and the Counterintelligence Division uses its full suite of investigative and intelligence capabilities to combat counterintelligence threats. While the details of the FBI’s strategy are classified, the overall goals are as follows:

Protect the secrets of the U.S. Intelligence Community, using intelligence to focus investigative efforts, and collaborating with our government partners to reduce the risk of espionage and insider threats.

Protect the nation’s critical assets, like our advanced technologies and sensitive information in the defense, intelligence, economic, financial, public health, and science and technology sectors.

Counter the activities of foreign spies. Through proactive investigations, the Bureau identifies who they are and stops what they’re doing.

Keep weapons of mass destruction from falling into the wrong hands, and use intelligence to drive the FBI’s investigative efforts to keep threats from becoming reality.

fbi

This is an interesting read as well

- I have posted the link in the past, albeit I do not think many read links offered....

Counterintelligence Investigations and the Special Counsel’s Mandate: Part I

Ever since Acting Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as a Special Counsel to investigate allegations of Russian interference in the 2016 election, commentators have raised questions about the investigation’s scope. Some have claimed that the Special Counsel’s mandate is too expansive; others, too narrow; and still others, simply too vague. On Lawfare, the issue has been addressed by Andrew Kent and David Kris. All appear to have assumed, however, that the scope of the investigation will be governed by 28 C.F.R. Part 600, the 1999 regulation authorizing the appointment of a “Special Counsel” that was enacted in the wake of the lapse of the independent-counsel statute.

But does this regulatory apparatus govern the Mueller investigation? I am not so sure. The order appointing Mueller (what I’ll call the “Rosenstein Order”) invokes—and commentators have naturally focused on—the regulations contained in 28 C.F.R. Part 600 (what I’ll call the “Part 600 regulations”), because they expressly authorize the appointment of a Special Counsel. But as I explain below, these regulations do not contemplate the delegation of a counterintelligence investigation to a Special Counsel; they focus on criminal investigations. The two kinds of investigations are significantly different in scope and function and rely on different investigative tools. The Rosenstein Order, however, appears to delegate a counterintelligence investigation to the Special Counsel under the criminal-prosecution-focused Part 600 regulations, thereby creating some confusion on the appropriate scope and type of investigation. By seemingly directing Mueller to conduct a counterintelligence investigation while at the same time limiting his authority to the criminal investigations authorized by the Part 600 regulations, the Rosenstein Order points in different directions on the scope of the Special Counsel’s mandate.

lawfareblog

An investigation into something that may or may not be a crime - in order to dig for a crime... barely sounds Constitutional, in my opinion..

No, Trump Isn’t Under Criminal Investigation by the FBI

In short, the investigation Comey references is not a criminal investigation; it’s a counterintelligence investigation, and crimes will be investigated or charged only if they happen to be uncovered in the process.
Where does that leave us?

First, it means that nobody determined that there was a basis to think a crime may have been committed — or that investigators were likely to uncover a crime — before starting an investigation. That’s not what people usually assume when they hear “FBI investigation.”

Second, it means that the investigation has no target and no standards , and that there is no expectation it will have a public endpoint. Criminal investigations may be broad-ranging, but they are ultimately creatures of law: A crime may have been committed; investigators look to build an evidence-based case that one was, and by whom. There are witnesses, testimony, legal elements to satisfy, and often a statute of limitations that argues for wrapping things up. At the end, there’s a public accounting: an indictment and a trial or plea. If the investigation becomes publicly known, the FBI and DOJ may break from their usual practice in confidential grand-jury investigations and announce that it’s over. A counterintelligence investigation, on the other hand, seeks only information, which may be developed over a lengthy period of time, and because it carries no possibility of charges, it can never clear anyone of wrongdoing.

Third, because they have no expected public endpoint, counterintelligence investigations can drag on more or less indefinitely, for years and years, without witnesses being called or a case being built. This Q&A with a couple of the committee’s Democrats is illustrative:

nationalreview

Sorry for the 'book' ...  

I actually believe that is the very reason that the search warrant on Michael Cohen was served in New York and co-jointly by the United States Attorney and the A.G. in New York. The fact that 28 C.F.R.600 is not designed to pursue criminal activity outside of the scope of the Mueller investigation, would make it absolutely appropriate for that investigation to be carried on by the states. The New York State A.G. has appeared to be looking at criminal activities that the Trump administration and organization has engaged in. The Cohen information is probably better processed in the hands of New York state than the Mueller team. If there is information found in the review that is pertinent to the scope of the Mueller investigation, the New York AG will certainly turn it over.

What is so important now is that there are probably two concurrent investigations that are on-going. The Mueller investigation can stay within their mandate {whatever that is} and the New York investigation can look at violation of state criminal statutes that the President has no control over. Both the president and everyone around him are fair game in the New York investigation. This is why it is such a big deal to have searched Cohen's home, office, and hotel room.

The same was said about a FISA warrant on Carter Page.

Are you saying the the FBI shouldn't have monitored Page's communications with known Russian agents?   That would be grossly negligent.

This is not going to end until they have something.  Trump was a businessman foremost  and one can't do business with the world without some improprieties.  Insofar as Mueller is concerned, I sincerely hope our President lets him do his thing.  The only one who has a case against him on the sex thing is Melania.  It's their business.  Really, only $130.000? Pretty cheap all things considered.

New York hates Pres. Trump!

There are plenty of people all over the country who truly dislike this president. His sexual escapades should be between him and his wife. The problem is that the payoffs might be illegal campaign contributions which make it a crime. In the grand scheme of what this man has done, this is probably the tip of the iceberg. Not every businessman  is shady. Trump is and has been shadier than most. He has been involved with the mob in New York, the Russian mafia, and has been suspected of money laundering and bank fraud. It's the big crimes that will get him.....the little ones will be icing on the cake.

It's all in the eye of the beholder!

Having the honor of being married to a very successful businessman, the government watched his company closely and there were those who wore wiretapping devices hoping to get some "shady" deals pinned on him. 

He was even in the company of the Marcello cartel in N.O.  We couldn't even speak to a competitor without questions on price fixing coming up.  So, to have a man like Trump or any corporate millionaire to be harassed and dogged by our government is common stuff.  They had a field day when we went to Brazil and Mexico.  Particularly, in Mexico when we were guests of their government.

The worst thing Trump ever did for himself was run for the POTUS and beating Hillary Clinton.  She and her cartel unleashed a pack of wolves. 

I am not going to judge Pres. Trump,  My husband and I were little people compared to those in Pres. Trump's position.

Hillary Clinton.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring her up. 

Not long.

She and her cartel unleashed a pack of wolves.

That's nothing but the product of a wild imagination. The reality is if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Hillary's campaign team being indicted and pleading guilty and her lawyer was getting raided by the FBI you'd be jumping for joy and calling for her arrest. Oh wait, none of that's happened but you've been calling for her arrest for the last two years anyway. The hypocrisy of conservatives knows no bounds. 

well Obama was only in the national spot light  for 12 years or so , so not much dirt there , Hillary on the other hand had a 50 year run in the national spot light , i can say though even with no convictions , i wouldn't trust that woman in a round room with a bowling ball and a sledge hammer. would come back and the bowling ball would be cracked in half , and the sledge hammer stuck up her .... hammer side in....

HAMMER TIME>>>cant touch this......

I have NEVER called for her arrest. although, I have called her lots of things worse than her arrest.  Nasty comes to mind.

And, you are right about "shoe being on the other foot".

Capone probably is nodding his skull.

Remember this? It is the same thing, the only difference here is Edwards tapped his campaign funds a year before the election but, the Republicans vilified him for the scandal. So, were was the outrage over Trumps scandal?

abcnews.go

well Obama was only in the national spot light  for 12 years or so , so not much dirt there , Hillary on the other hand had a 50 year run in the national spot light , i can say though even with no convictions , i wouldn't trust that woman in a round room with a bowling ball and a sledge hammer.

Seems like you've swallowed a whole lot of right-wing swill.    As far as you or I know the woman doesn't even have a parking ticket.

I have NEVER called for her arrest.

Then you're just about the only one on the right who hasn't. Even recent Trump rallies he's still getting the "Lock Her Up!" chants going. Mike Flynn led the chant at one rally just over a year ago, it really doesn't get more ironic than that.

It was at the RNC convention,

Oh for Fucks sakes.  

Your vocabulary is extremely domesticated. 

Glad to see you admit you have nothing but, "But, but, but, Hillary!".

The only one who has a case against him on the sex thing is Melania.

Have you said this about the Clintons?

No, can't say I have.  Could be because he was in my house living free, but was under a contract with millions of people that said.....no hanky panky while living here and no smoking....not even cigars.

Could be because he was in my house living free, but was under a contract with millions of people that said.

Wow, you have Trump living in your house for free????

'New York hates Pres. Trump!'

For good reason.  Most sane and rational people cannot stand this malignant narcissist.  

All the movers and the shakers in New York City have always known exactly what Donald Rump is - white trash with money.  

Trump was a businessman foremost  and one can't do business with the world without some improprieties.

Some improprieties.  Is that what they're calling money laundering, frauds, gangsters and thugs nowadays?  

He's screwed over everyone but himself when it comes to him being a 'businessman'.  Snort.  

As flawed an individual as Trump is, his actions as president have been a 10,000% improvement over the Anti-American ideology of Hussein Obama or Hillary.

I thank God every day that Trump is president and not one of the Stalinist Democrats

Will you be saying the same thing if Trump is eventually indicted for aiding and abetting a foreign power to influence an American election? That would place him squarely in the loving arms of Vladimir Putin. Will you still believe the baseless lies about democrats being Stalinists, or will you come to your senses and realize that it is Trump who is in bed with the Stalinists?

How in the hell can Russia or any country tell the American people how to vote?  Most don't even listen to the news. 

That is stupid.

The Russians are the only thing they have left .It is just impossible for them to believe that their two time loser of a candidate was so bad she lost to Donald Trump. Gees how bad does one have to be to lose to him? 

How in the hell can Russia or any country tell the American people how to vote?  Most don't even listen to the news.

Have you ever, EVER, bought a product because of a commercial? I guarantee you have, many times. It's the same thing, fox news does it, alex jones, brietfart, infowhores...etc.. ...spread that propaganda and fake news and the gullible idiots buy it every time. THAT'S how they influenced voters... Twitter, facebook? Yea. Exactly. 

One of my stupider relatives shared a meme on Facebook telling people that liberals have a campaign going to put a red light bulb on our front porches to indicate that a house contains no firearms.  The meme then goes on to say that that makes them a sure target for burglary, and that only "ignorant ass liberal retards" (their words, most certainly not mine) would do something so stupid.

Of course, it was fake.

Of course, she believed it.

Because there are some people out there making up fake news, and other people stupid enough to believe and spread it, but because it paints the other side in a bad light.  They're being made fools of, and they're loving every minute of it.  And they vote.

Legally, trump cannot fire Mueller without getting rid of the regulations. And if trump did that? Not good for trumpy. 

If trump ate a live human baby on TV, his supporters would just say, "But....Obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" 

Lol, they would claim Hillary eats live babies daily.

All this whistling past the graveyard by our rightie friends has reached the totally ridiculous level.  Just based on what we DO know [which is nothing compared to what Mueller has]  Trump looks like he's in a whole heap of trouble.  He has openly admitted to obstruction of justice, his top people are being arrested and turned.  This isn't political, righties, this isn't some kind of weird liberal way of looking at the situation.  By all indications, Trump is in serious legal jeopardy.  That's just the way it looks, it really, really is.  Looking at this and saying that Trump is most likely innocent of any wrongdoing, is INSANE.

Knowing about crimes and not reporting them is a crime. I have ecount of the number of times the hacked e-mails of the DNC and Mrs Clinton were discussed between ranking members of Trump's campaign and those who are now known to be Russian intelligence operatives. That the head of the Trump campaign, one Donald J. Trump, was unaware of this is inconceivable. That nobody called the FBI is criminal. Of course time will tell but I believe that when the American People finally understand the full extent of what all went down between Trump's campaign and Russia them we shall all stand in unison and demand that this never be allowed to happen again. Knowing a foreign enemy was hacking our election and in both direct and indirect ways trying to unfairly influence the outcome of our American Presidential election is a high crime and, a damn felony, indeed...

"...we shall all stand in unison..."

I disagree.  The 40% who still stand with Trump will NEVER stand with the rest of us no matter WHAT comes out about Trump.  I do, however, sincerely hope you are right about this and I am wrong.

Should Trump fire Mueller?

Yeah, of course.  Trump should absolutely fire Mueller and immediately fire anybody and everybody that might even have the smallest shred of disloyalty toward him, his family or anybody that he holds dearest, including himself.  After all, Trump was not merely elected, he was mandated to drain the swamp, build the wall, create millions of high paying jobs and bestow upon Americans an extremely high quality health care system that will not only be inexpensive but also an absolute perfection of which the rest of the civilized world will admire with the most envious of awe. 

s/

I don’t think Trump should fire Mueller but Muller has yet to tie the criminal indictments to a Russian attempt to influence the election. This last foreray into Trump’s alleged one night stand with a porn tramp is about as far afield of his investigatory mandate as Mueller can get and looks petty.

Democrats tend to think that, any minute now, Mueller will find the smoking gun but then they wouldn’t support Trump whether he finds a smoking gun or not. Republicans, on the other hand, see this as a witch hunt and have stopped listening (the same way democrats turned a deaf ear to allegations about Hillary over Benghazi). I don’t think the Mueller investigation is moving the public one way or the other. 

It's not moving it a bit according to all accounts and polls.

You mean the fake news and mistaken polls? Do they suddenly have validity? Regressive hypocrisy revealed on schedule. Mueller isn't sharing what he knows and trump thinks he knows what Mueller knows. Trump is the chicken watching the fox opening the henhouse door........creak!

This last foreray into Trump’s alleged one night stand with a porn tramp is about as far afield of his investigatory mandate as Mueller can get and looks petty.

The raid was done by the FBI, last I checked Mueller wasn't in charge of the whole FBI, just the part that is investigating Russia and, on top of that the warrant was written by a New York U.S. Attorney's office, not by Mueller or, anyone on his team. What this means is, anything that was found in that raid will be used in NEW YORK as a STATE case not as part of Muellers case.

The raid was done by the FBI, last I checked Mueller wasn't in charge of the whole FBI, just the part that is investigating Russia and, on top of that the warrant was written by a New York U.S. Attorney's office, not by Mueller or, anyone on his team. What this means is, anything that was found in that raid will be used in NEW YORK as a STATE case not as part of Muellers case.

Mueller has been criticized for exceeding the scope of his investigation so he turned this information over to the FBI so they could do what he could not. This kind of obvious coordination looks petty to me and so does the allegation that paying hush money to a porn tramp is an illegal campaign contribution. It’s like they’re looking for anything possible to throw at Trump rather than sticking to the purpose of the investigation.

However, my point is not whether they can legally do it but rather that it’s not moving the electorate one way or the other and may actually look like Mueller is out to get Trump not just investigate Russia’s involvement in the election. 

Did you forget the involvement of the Justice Department, when even the trump cronies have to do the right thing there's meat with those potatoes.

Mueller's scope is laid out here, directly from a Trump appointed Republican named Rosenstein,

Mueller oversees the investigation into "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump, and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation"

en.wikipedia

The part in red is the important part to your argument.

However, my point is not whether they can legally do it but rather that it’s not moving the electorate one way or the other and may actually look like Mueller is out to get Trump not just investigate Russia’s involvement in the election.

This only helps the argument that Mueller isn't interested in moving anyone politically, he is just trying to get the evidence.

Republicans, on the other hand, see this as a witch hunt and have stopped listening (the same way democrats turned a deaf ear to allegations about Hillary over Benghazi)

It's hard to see how it's "the same" since I don't recall Hillary or anyone in her campaign team being indicted or pleading guilty to any crimes. At least 8 partisan Republican investigations concluded she couldn't have prevented the very unfortunate Benghazi incident, so Democrats really didn't need to stop listening.

I wonder sometimes what it will take for the Trumpites to turn on him. They agreed with him that his supporters would continue their support even if he shot someone in the street, he admitted on an open mic to not waiting for consent before he just grabs women by the genitals, nearly a dozen of his campaign associates including the campaign manager are either under indictment, plead guilty or are spilling the beans to the Mueller investigation, more than a dozen Russians have been indicted for their involvement in working to get Trump elected, half a dozen campaign members have admitted lying to the FBI about their meetings with Russian operatives, it's an open secret that Trumps lawyer paid a porn actress $130,000 just 11 days before the election to keep her mouth shut which is on top of the $150,000 that was paid to kill a story about another affair he had with a Playmate, there is a credible accusation of physical threats of harm to the porn actress to keep her silence, there are 19 credible accusers claiming Trump sexually assaulted them which corroborate his own words in the Access Hollywood bus tape, another accuser claims he raped her when she was just 13 and at least 6 of the teens from Teen Miss USA confirmed he walked in on them in their dressing room while some were naked, a story he corroborated on Howard Stern, he admitted to Lester Holt on air that he fired Jim Comey because of "this Russia thing" essentially admitting to obstruction of justice, I mean, when will it be enough?

Do you really need to see the Putin pee tape before you guys abandon this pile of garbage? Or even with that will you just hold your nose and continue to support him as long as you get tax cuts, a repeal of Roe V Wade, dirty coal jobs, a boondoggle border wall, school vouchers re-segregating schools and a destroyed EPA?

The false equivalency junk we always hear from the republicans is really getting old. It is one of their favorite tactics to deflect from an argument that they know they have lost. Benghazi becomes the greatest scandal of all time so we don't talk about obstruction of justice.....uh oh, didn't work......well Hillary was involved in another great scandal......you know..... Uranium One.....ooops that didn't work either. Well if it doesn't stick with Hillary, let's find a false equivalence for Obama..... He went to a Black Nationalist Christian Church.....nah....people know better......oh, we've got it...His middle name is Hussein.... That's proof that he's a Muslim mole and is going to introduce Sharia.....maybe that's a bridge too far......How about he never attended Columbia or Harvard......after all, he was a radical black Muslim activist trying to overthrow the country....... You would think that trying to change the subject from the disaster that is Donald Trump to the false equivalencies that are thrown out there would just prove to the world how desperate the republicans are right now.

For the truth, we just have to look at the number of incumbent republicans that are retiring. They know the truth.

"Whistling past the graveyard" must be the new catch phrase?  I like to keep up with what is 'trending' and I have been reading this a great deal as of late...

Lock em up is already tired.

Awww okay ... that explains it, thanks!

That's as old as the hills, where have you been?

As always, Trump supporters are Republicans that have been voting for no one but a Republican for years and years turning a blind eye to any scandal attached to a Republican.

It doesn't matter who the Republican is, whether it was Nixon, or any sex scandal, or any corruption or any terrible actions or behavior, if a Republican does it, the blinders go on and any excuse however lame is made to avoid facing reality.

Republican voters that are still alive today have voted for every single Republican candidate and that includes 3 of the worst ever, Nixon, Bush, and Trump.

The nyah, nyah, nyah taunts at any Democrat every elected using every lame excuse fails to address the problem with the total lack of logic in so many of the arguments they make trying to support the indefensible.

It is completely indefensible that Trump supported Roy Moore, but still the Republican base goes to bat for an admitted pedophile using all kinds of ridiculous excuses.

The crazy thing is with Bush they went along for the ride on every bad policy, every bad move, and when it all fell apart toward the end the Republican party elites created the "tea party" as a distraction from the total abject failure of their 8 years in power.

The base voters and the Republican elites who manipulate them won't say his name, won't admit the failures of those 8 years like the economic collapse and unpaid for wars, they just try to change the subject.

Now we have another Republican in Trump who is outpacing Bush at the speed of light to become the worst President ever, making bad decisions, filling the White House with worse than swamp creatures who openly abuse their power, Trump lies every day, sends his sycophants out to lie every day while they all scream "fake news".

It isn't fake news to report the many, many firings and resignations when Trump said he would "hire the best people". If these people were the "best people" why get rid of them? 

There isn't anything Trump has done other than follow the path of Bannon in completely destroying the Republican party their base votes for and will always vote for no matter what. And if this "tear it all down" mentality tears apart America even further or tears apart Democracy itself or tears down the Constitution then they take the attitude "who cares"?

I think most Americans can see this for what it is and what it was in hindsight. But as always the base Republican voter will NEVER, EVER, admit their votes for a Republican candidate were wrong. They refuse to admit mistakes. And you can bet that next election, no matter what horrible candidate Republicans trot out to the base, those voters will go to the polls and still check every "R" box on every ballot without question.

I think most Americans can see this for what it is and what it was in hindsight. But as always the base Republican voter will NEVER, EVER, admit their votes for a Republican candidate were wrong. They refuse to admit mistakes. And you can bet that next election, no matter what horrible candidate Republicans trot out to the base, those voters will go to the polls and still check every "R" box on every ballot without question.

That whole thing was one of the best explanations of the blind, brainwashed Republican base voter that I have ever read. There are a few who married into my family (none would have ever been born into my family (maybe it's genetic?)) and no matter what you say to them they are going to vote for the Republican. When you point out every terrible thing the Republican candidates has done and how they will hurt them economically and actually cost them money, you still can not talk them out of it. They are like robots.

The Mueller investigation should be allowed to run its course. If anyone should be fired it should be Mr. Trumps hairdresser based on your photo.

FIRE MUELLER !

ALL the Big Government Agencies already knew what was going on, before Trump was elected....right ?

Hell... the "Agencies" knew Billy boy got a wind job in the "Oral office", but no one would say at the time. How can one "Sneak" around in the "Oral Office' without ANYONE knowing ?

If one can....our Agencies are Dumbshits !

Actually I hope he does fire him, the ensuing Constitutional crises will render him useless as opposed to destructive and Pence will follow him into infamy, ahhh fantasy can indeed be reality in short order.

the ensuing Constitutional crises

What "Constitutional Crises" ?

As they used to say when I was but a wee child, stand by for news. The only opinions agreeable with trumps ability to fire him are his inner circle. The Senate and Congress both know this will be the catalyst to his end and are openly saying so from both sides. I do think he will have little choice as he will be desperate to conceal the evidence.

So you don't know of some "Constitutional Crises". Got it !

Based on your comment, your looking for MORE congressional "Protectionism". Got that too !

You luvs you some Big Government....Especially them "Lifers".......don't you !

the ensuing Constitutional crises

must be hard to live in reality

If your party would stop voting for criminals there wouldn't be a crisis much less a constitutional crisis.

Actually I hope he does fire him, the ensuing Constitutional crises will render him useless as opposed to destructive and Pence will follow him into infamy, ahhh fantasy can indeed be reality in short order.

Pence would be seen as a lame duck and would get little to no cooperation from a democrat controlled congress, (which is most likely going to happen). 

Also, just saw that congress is working on a bi-partisan bill that would stop trump from firing Mueller, (and anyone else that tried to fire him for anything but what is legal). See what happens with that.. Clearly trump is stupid enough to think that firing Mueller would actually stop the investigation, which it wouldn't. I mean, it didn't end when he fired... Bahara, Yates and Comey... Firing Mueller would just be another road bump on the road to trumps impeachment. 

Pence is un-electable and not only because he would be taking over after a Trump resignation. He has the personality of a 2X4 and his offbeat religious beliefs would come into play, such as the time when he tried to pass a law in Indiana requiring a complete funeral for every time a woman had a miscarriage. Though he may have invested in a company that made really tiny caskets, so maybe it was a smart idea.

He has the personality of a 2X4

LOL True.. I dislike Pence almost as much as I hate trump. Both of them are idiots. 

FIRE MUELLER !

Clinton Should have fired Ken Star, and who ever would have replaced him, and right on down the line, just kept firing them one after another. I am sure that the right wing would have been TOTALLY ok with it. [eye roll] /sarc

Clinton Should have fired Ken Star, and who ever would have replaced him, and right on down the line,

Yep ! 

They're all about "Politics" and a huge waste of money and time, for the "Scraps" they dig up now and again.