President* Trump Cancels Summit With North Korea

Trump was not prepared. He thought he would walk into the room and Jong Un would bow down to him.

Incompetence on fire.

Trump was not prepared. He thought he would walk into the room and Jong Un would bow down to him.

No...Little Kimmy Poo was never serious about getting rid of his nukes or trying to improve the lot of his people. So Trump called his bluff, which he had said previously he would do if the "Great Leader" of NK wanted to play games. The world will condemn Kim, not Trump, for this temporary impasse.

So I guess trump really never wanted that Nobel Prize, did he?

Oh, Trump wants it. He wants it so badly it makes his itty bitty little fingers hurt to hold it...

So I guess trump really never wanted that Nobel Prize, did he?

I don't think he really gave a shit about it, since he never brought the subject up. At least he tried to do something about NK, which Obama never did.

oh please....

So...  He's a hero because he tried?  I like people who don't fail.  You want us to give him a participation trophy?

" Kim Jun Un, in the words of a wise man 'Congratulations, you just played yourself'. Withdrawing from talks with #NKorea is 100% the right decision. #KJU doesn’t want a deal. He has deliberately sabotaged the talks over the last two weeks & was setting us up to take the blame," Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, tweeted. 

Trump didn't fail, educated people know why the talks broke down.

How many other Presidents have had talks breakdown with one of the Kims that have ruled North Korea since the Armistice?

And I don't believe the President ever cared about the Nobel, especially after it's worth was so diluted with the award to his predeccessor for doing nothing and the additional problems with in the Nobel Committee and sexual harrassment allegations among other problems......

Are you kidding?  Trump lives for recognition and all the hoopla that goes with it.  Pats on the back are like a drug to him.

How many other Presidents have had talks breakdown with one of the Kims that have ruled North Korea since the Armistice?

That's why I don't think peace will ever be achieved with NK. When they called off the talks with SK, I knew it was all going south.

I really was excited to hear that SK and NK were going to talk and maybe sign a peace treaty. Now I'm just disappointed

'And I don't believe the President ever cared about the Nobel, especially after it's worth was so diluted with the award to his predeccessor for doing nothing and the additional problems with in the Nobel Committee and sexual harrassment allegations among other problems......'

Sounds like sour grapes to me there dude.  

That's why I don't think peace will ever be achieved with NK. When they called off the talks with SK, I knew it was all going south.

Note that NK ended the talks because SK and the US refused to end (or even delay) the provocative war games they play.    Otherwise SK and NK had made a lot of progress.

The nuclear issue itself was never going anywhere due in large part because the US has proven to small countries that they face extreme risk if they give up their nuclear programs, and due in part to Trump's irrational threats against NK and his recent actions against Iran which prove that the US can't be trusted to uphold its end of any agreement.

Thanks for that insight.

I suspect the # 1 reason is that John Bolton is now running the show and he's the key player who scuttled the 1994 Agreed Framework, and since he became Trump's national security adviser there have been a number of both subtle and public insults to NK.   The # 2 reason is that Trump just abrogated the JCPOA without any just cause so NK realizes that there's no upside to any negotiation with the US.    The only possible result would be to make concessions which would compromise their security.

So...  No Nobel Prize then?

So...  No Nobel Prize then?

Speculation about Trump winning the Nobel Peace Prize was an unbelievably premature Trumpian dream...

Why?  They gave it to President Obama for basically being half-black.

now, now

Believe it or not, Trump lost all chance at the Nobel Peace Prize when he went to the United Nations and threatened to wipe North Korea off the face of the earth. True story. 

Trump Threatens to ' Totally Destroy' North Korea in …

Trump cited recent hostility from North Korea in their statements toward Trump and the U.S.
This can only be seen as a monumental failure by the Trump administration and of course the president* himself.

The same thing was said about Reagan when he ...… WALKED AWAY from the Russia talks ! 

This whole thing was a prime example of Trump as irredeemable blowhard.  He was going to get the Nobel Peace Prize, he was going to solve something that no one else could, he was going to make North Korea rich, he was going to get North Korea to end its nuclear program, he he he.  His mantra is "I'm the only one who can do _______".

Well, he couldn't do it? Is anyone surprised? Hell no.

"Shock and Awe" for less than 50% of Americans is a great thing to watch ! 

"Kim Jun Un, in the words of a wise man 'Congratulations, you just played yourself'. Withdrawing from talks with #NKorea is 100% the right decision. #KJU doesn’t want a deal. He has deliberately sabotaged the talks over the last two weeks & was setting us up to take the blame," Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, tweeted. 

Trump called Kim's totally predictable bluff, and has pretty much said..."no soup for you and your starving citizens" No economic help at all, no loans, no food, no whateve. Whatcha gonna do Little Kimster, next move is yours?

Trump hasn't even gotten mad about it. He just says we'll have to wait and see.

It's the Liberals that are all in a flummox about it. 

'The same thing was said about Reagan when he ...… WALKED AWAY from the Russia talks !'

Was it?  Citation?

Yep, do your own research and look it up.

It's not Tessy's job to look it up, she didn't make the claim

skirting the CoC [ph]

What claim?

I can't keep up for you, Greg, you're gonna have to try harder

'So, your looking for "ME"...."It Is Me"..... to teach the unteachable now ?'

You made the claim  I've yet to see the citation.  

Q

U

I

C

K

.....what is a "Citation" ?

Just for you Tessylo (Pulled from quite a few sources as you can see):

Clark Clifford, advisor to a string of Democratic Presidents and a major league elite, called Reagan "an amiable dunce."

The Chicago Tribune called Reagan ignorant and said his "air-headed rhetoric on the issues of foreign policy and arms control have reached the limits of tolerance and have become an embarrassment to the U.S. and a danger to world peace."

Washington Post columnist David Broder  said the job of Reagan's staff is to water "the desert between Ronald Reagan's ears."

Henry Kissinger said that when you meet Reagan, you wonder: how did it ever occur to anyone that he should be governor, much less president?'

Jimmy Breslin, the columnist, said Reagan was senile and then insulted his supporters by saying they were proof that senility was a communicable disease. For good measure, he called Reagan "shockingly dumb."

Newsweek columnist Eleanor Clift said that "greed in this country is associated with Ronald Reagan."

USA Today's White House reporter Sarah McClendon, who said that "it will take a hundred years to get the government back into place after Ronald Reagan. He hurt people: the disabled, women, nursing mothers, the homeless."

Lesley Stahl of CBS News (and now "60 Minutes") said, "I predict historians are going to be totally baffled by how the American people fell in love with this man."

Hollywood director John Huston (not a pundit as such, but illustrative of a mindset in Hollywood -- a major source of Democratic donors) said Reagan was a "bore," with a "low order of intelligence," who is "egotistical."

Tip O' Neill (the powerful Speaker of the House) said Reagan's mind was "an absolute and total disgrace" and that it was "sinful that this man is President of the United States."

Steven Hayward reminds us in his recent "Reagan Reclaimed" column that O'Neill said that "the evil is on the White House at the present time. And that evil is a man who has no care and no concern for the working class of America and the future generations of America, and who likes to ride a horse. He's cold. He's mean. He's got ice water for blood."

John Osborne in the New Republic magazine wrote that "Ronald Reagan is an ignoramus."

After his election, columnist William Greider said, "[M]y God, they've elected this guy who nine months ago we thought was a hopeless clown."

The Nation warned "he is the most dangerous person ever to come this close to the presidency" and that "he is a menace to the human race."

When, in his first term, the country faced some economic weakness and Reagan's poll numbers turned down, pundits were celebrating as they wrote his political obituary. Kevin Phillips, political pundit, wrote that "it didn't take a genius to predict on Inauguration Day that Reagan would unravel" and that it was foolish to think that Reagan could solve the nation's economic problems with policies based on "maxims out of McGuffey's Reader and Calvin Coolidge."

The New York Times: "the stench of failure hangs over Ronald Reagan's White House."

When Reagan delivered his famous "evil empire" speech (that, by the way, also was critical of America's own historical failings), New York Times columnist Anthony Lewis was apoplectic, deriding it as "simplistic," "sectarian," "terribly dangerous," "outrageous," and in conclusion, "primitive...the only word for it" 

So where is the citation for: 

'The same thing was said about Reagan when he ...… WALKED AWAY from the Russia talks !'

????

Try actually READING comments 2.3.1 and 2.3.5. You'll have to scroll down a bit though, to find them.

A Chevy.  Mid-80s. no?

Reagan was a "bore," with a "low order of intelligence," who is "egotistical."

"In spite of the wildly speculative and false stories of arms for hostages and alleged ransom payments, we did not—repeat, did not—trade weapons or anything else for hostages, nor will we." - Ronald Reagan Nov 1986

"A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not." Ronald Reagan March 1987

I think all those negative comments about Reagan hit the mark, his egotism was only eclipsed by his rapidly declining mental health and likely late stage Alzheimer's. The fall of the iron curtain had far more to do with Gorbachev and a flawed fiscal system in Russia than Ronnie Rayguns telling them to "Tear down this wall." To give Reagan credit for the fall of Russia is to be completely ignorant of the geopolitical climate at the time.

It's not far from how Kim Jong Un realized his nuclear test facility has crumbled and had catastrophic failures which is the only reason he was willing to discuss giving up the nuclear program, it had nothing to do with Trump and his supposed "tough talk". 

Same person, same tactics as when we were at NV....

Same person, same tactics as when we were at NV.

Yep....and they are doing their best to turn NT into another version of their previous Hell Hole. That's all they come here for. But, they are too inane to see that it won't work here. That's why they keep trying and keep losing. 

they are doing their best to turn NT into another version of their previous Hell Hole.

They turned Fox nation in to a ghetto, they did the same with NV.

Notice how the RW trolls fled when the rules applied to them here too. Colt, Jonathon and several others....GONE. Some still here but not participating because NT won't allow the bigoted bullshit.

The same thing was said about Reagan when he ...… WALKED AWAY from the Russia talks !

Reagan didn't 'walk away' from the Geneva Summit, the Reykjavik or the Moscow summit. So which 'talks' are you referring to exactly? 

"Walk Away""

met·a·phor
[ˈmedəˌfôr, ˈmedəˌfər]

NOUN
1. a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.

"Some, including Reagan staffer Jack F. Matlock, Jr., attribute Reagan’s refusal to compromise on SDI testing to a mistaken belief that the proposed restrictions would be detrimental to the program, whereas in reality, Matlock contends, they would have had little effect on research that was still in its very early stages.[3]
The talks finally stalled, Reagan asking if Gorbachev would "turn down a historic opportunity because of a single word," referring to his insistence on laboratory testing. Gorbachev asserted that it was a matter of principle, and the summit concluded."

then nobody walked away did they?

An agreement was reached and the USSR was dissolved shortly thereafter

Just as I thought - no citations, no proof, diddly squat, Zero, zip, zilch, nada

"Walk Away"

Isn't a noun, nor is it a metaphor. 

If you don't have an answer to my question, or just can't support your BS comment, just say so. 

Does this reality help then ?

theatlantic

Knowing his own bottom line and grasping Gorbachev’s, Reagan realized that they could go no further. The meeting, so close to a momentous transformation, ended when the president got up and walked out with Shultz while Gorbachev was still decrying the destabilizing effects of SDI.

“This meeting is over,” he said. “Let’s go, George.”

“Can’t we do something about this?” Gorbachev pleaded.

“It’s too late,” Reagan replied.

then nobody walked away did they?

See comment 2.3.5. 

I know your a smart person, and I'm relatively sure you KNEW I wasn't talking about Reagan "Walking Away" for good......or didn't you. 

Trump has never put forth "It ain't gonna happen at all now".....did he ?

By the way, I thought  you wanted me to leave you alone, yet here YOU are  !

Just as I thought - no citations, no proof, diddly squat, Zero, zip, zilch, nada

From the mouths of...….   

That's just it, you never do leave me alone just like some of your cohorts around here

but your comment still doesn't make any sense. Why did I think anything would change with you?

That's just it, you never do leave me alone just like some of your cohorts around here

And here you are....Again !

Who are MY "Cohorts" ?

I speak for myself !

"but your comment still doesn't make any sense."

Maybe not to you.

By the way, I thought  you wanted me to leave you alone, yet here YOU are  !

'I know your a smart person, and I'm relatively sure you KNEW I wasn't talking about Reagan "Walking Away" for good......or didn't you.

Trump has never put forth "It ain't gonna happen at all now".....did he ?'

Of course you walked back all your comments when you were asked for citations and proof.  

How or why would anyone presume to think anyone would KNOW what you were or weren't talking about?  

I walked back NOTHING !

'I walked back NOTHING !'

Sure you did!

Sure you did!

Did What ?

Does this reality help then ?

Actually, NO. You chose to make a false equivalency and it failed miserably.

Reagan spent months on back channels setting up the summits, more months in face to face diplomatic talks and THEN attended the first summit in Geneva. Same thing with the Reykjavik and Moscow summits. In short, they came to a final IMPASS after YEARS of negotiation and a hell of a lot of progress. 

Trump couldn't even get to 'Hello'. But hey, he has a commemorative coin to hand out to his syncopates. 

Oh and BTFW, the transcripts of the Reykjavik summit are online and do not include the 'exchange' you hang your hat on. Do you have a link to Weisberg's source? 

Last second edit? 

Last second edit?

Where ?

Reagan spent months on back channels setting up the summits, more months in face to face diplomatic talks and THEN attended the first summit in Geneva. Same thing with the Reykjavik and Moscow summits. In short, they came to a final IMPASS after YEARS of negotiation and a hell of a lot of progress.

No kidding !

NK posturing and talking has just started with this President, hasn't it. 

NK posturing and talking has just started with this President, hasn't it.

Yes, if Trump keeps grasping at every straw the Kim extends, this is only the beginning of Kim playing him. 

TRUMP is the one who jumped on the 'let's meet right now' band wagon. Trump's narcissism brought him to the conclusion that all this shit is easy and has yet to admit, despite all evidence in front of him, that he's WAY over his head. Instead of letting the process work, let underlings negotiate terms and procedure and allow them to suse out Kim's 'must haves', Trump jumped in with both feet, clueless and willing to slather Kim with praise. Trump makes the mistake that other leaders are motivated by the same things he is: praise, petting and acquiescence in lieu of substance. 

Kim has all the time in the world. He's already proven that he doesn't care if his people starve. China will continue to slide enough stuff to the NK to make sure that a revolution doesn't happen on their border. 

Now, Trump has a limited time to act or he'll be left with nothing to show for his commemorative coin. 

Yes, if Trump keeps grasping at every straw the Kim extends, this is only the beginning of Kim playing him.

They said the same thing about Reagan with Gorbachev. "Reagan was being played" ! 

"Now, Trump has a limited time to act or he'll be left with nothing to show for his commemorative coin."

How long did it take before there was an actual Final agreement back then again ?

Trump still has another term to go.

thenewstalkers

The whole last paragraph was added after I posted my reply. 

Sure ! 

Notice how they cluster in little gangs of hyaenas...all jumping up and down patting themselves on the back, thinking they are actually accomplishing something.

I don't recall this being hyena behavior at all. We must not have taken the same classes in school.

usatoday

WASHINGTON — President Trump has canceled a scheduled summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, citing the "tremendous anger and open hostility" displayed in Kim's recent statements. 

North Korea and the U.S. have been working for weeks to set up what would have been a historic meeting of the two leaders in Singapore on June 12. 

"I feel it is inappropriate, at this time, to have this long-planned meeting," Trump wrote in a letter to Kim that released by the White House on Thursday. "Therefore, please let this letter to serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place. 

Swing and a miss (again), John. Here's Trump's complete letter:

fox5sandiego

And, let's not forget that from the very beginning, Trump has said, "We'll see what happens" when it came to whether or not KJU played ball the way Trump wanted.

And, let's not forget that from the very beginning, Trump has said, "We'll see what happens"

That is what people say when they don't know what they are doing.

"We'll see what happens"

He says that all time when it comes to important world/global matters.

Meaning - I don't have a fucking clue about anything.  

'That is what people say when they don't know what they are doing.'

BAM!  

That is what people say when they don't know what they are doing.

Seems like you've never played poker, John.

Weren't you one of those 'Trump will win the Nobel Peace Prize' people?  Just a week ago you and your buds here were telling us how great this all was (practically made it sound like a done deal)!   It was clear to most of us that Trump was outplayed from the beginning, and finally that was so obvious Trump himself knew he was screwed.  So he bailed.  I do believe this is yet another example of your side being wrong about yet another Trump debacle.  

He says that all time when it comes to important world/global matters.

He's clearly not like Obama, who blurted everything to our enemies and weakened our strength on the global stage.  

Weren't you one of those 'Trump will win the Nobel Peace Prize' people?  Just a week ago you and your buds here were telling us how great this all was (practically made it sound like a done deal)!

I have never said what you've accused me of saying. Look through my comment history.

Pretty much everyone has played poker.

It's sad to watch otherwise intelligent Americans give this idiot Trump every benefit of the doubt. At best, Trump is a con man. Do we want a con man deciding the fate of the world through nuclear armament negotiations?

We know what happened here. The South Korean president was frightened by Trump's belligerent "fire and fury" rhetoric from last year and was worried Trump (and Jong Un) would provoke an actual war on the Korean peninsula. South Korean President Moon set out to broker negotiations between the two sides. In the course of that brokering Trump was given the impression (or took the impression) that North Korea was willing to end their nuclear weapons program on Trump's insistence.  It turned out that this was not the case.

trump vastly over estimates his personal influence on events. He has a sort of complex about his own importance (aka extreme narcissism) and it has now blown up in his face.

It was clear to most of us that Trump was outplayed from the beginning, and finally that was so obvious Trump himself knew he was screwed.

So tell us in detail how Trump was outplayed. It would appear to anyone with modicum of intelligence that Kimster overplayed his hand, and Trump called his bluff...which he had said previously he would do. Now back to square one

Here is some reading material for you. 

bloomberg

vanityfair

Is Kim playing Trump?

Diplomats worry that with no U.S. ambassador to South Korea , and the surprise resignation of the State Department’s chief North Korea negotiator last week, the Trump administration is badly under-resourced to enter into talks with Kim. Others fear that the White House has already been outplayed. “In my conversations with North Korean officials over the past two years, I have been struck with how clear they are about their strategy and the outcomes that they would like to see,” DiMaggio said. “It doesn’t surprise me that after they have been able to declare that they have achieved a great deal of progress in their nuclear program, that they are now willing and eager to come to the table, because after all, they have strengthened their negotiating position.”

Kim’s defiance of international norms could already be perceived as having paid dividends. “A meeting with the leader of the free world, the United States, has been a long-standing goal of the North Korean leadership. In fact, this was raised to me when I visited Pyongyang last year,” DiMaggio told me. “The problem is that the North Koreans haven’t delivered anything concrete yet, but Trump has already handed them what many would call a major concession. I think the administration needs to move quickly to get ahead of this process because right now, it is purely reacting and not leading.”

I have never said what you've accused me of saying. Look through my comment history.

Well, a whole shit-ton of your friends here did.  Deleted {SP} Meta comments (comments about the site or its members) are always off-topic.

He's clearly not like Obama, who blurted everything to our enemies and weakened our strength on the global stage.

Unlike Trump, who as one of his first acts spewed CODE LEVEL intelligence to the Russians. /s

Well, a whole shit-ton of your friends here did. 

I do not have friends on NT. What I do have are anonymous online acquaintances. There's a difference.

Stop talking about me in such a personal manner - it is against our CoC. If you don't, I will not hesitate to report you.

Deleted, skirting  {SP}

"Kim Jun Un, in the words of a wise man 'Congratulations, you just played yourself'. Withdrawing from talks with #NKorea is 100% the right decision. #KJU doesn’t want a deal. He has deliberately sabotaged the talks over the last two weeks & was setting us up to take the blame," Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, tweeted. 

No, Trump simply called Kim's bluff. NK's  bargaining position has been weakened as they gained nothing from this little show of stubbornness. No food, no coal, fuel, no nothing except worldwide bad press..

Removed for context.

Getting personal is no-no.

Greg, either report it and wait for a Mod, or comment if you wish.  Please don't do both. Thanks {SP}

but Trump has already handed them what many would call a major concession. I think the administration needs to move quickly to get ahead of this process because right now, it is purely reacting and not leading.

What concession was that? If it was getting a face-to-face with with a world leader, Trump has effectively pulled that shiny object away. Now Kim has think of what to do next.

Boy, some of you sure get your panties in a wad when your lies are brought out into the sunlight......

removed for context

Hmmm.

It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.  

High Five!

I don't have a fucking clue about anything.

That was your comment from Tessylo @3.1.2

It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.  

That's my avatar, and I strive to live up to it. 

Did you have something valid and intelligent to say about the seeded topic like many of us have, or are you another user who is making veiled personal accusations? It's no skin off my nose either way.  

I don't have a fucking clue about anything.

Hmmmmmmmm

That was your comment from Tessylo @3.1.2

No shit sherlock.

And the Hmmmmmm was your response.  

What was I to ascertain from that?

It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.  

'That's my avatar and I strive to live it up to it.  

Sure, if you say so.  

Anyone with common sense could have predicted this was going to happen.  

Most of us who knew it was going to fall apart held our breath because we all hoped against hope that somehow NK would quit their saber rattling and continued nuclear power ambitions. None of us trusted Trump but since he's the one the half wits put in charge we all had to sit back and let the chips fall where they may. Sadly, we weren't disappointed, Trump has once again lived up to his inept ineffectual incompetent reputation.

I knew this summit would never happen!

I thought it might, but figured either trump would come back going "well, ya know, N.K. has no immigration problems, no drug problems and believes in swift and proper judgment of its criminals and his family rules for its third generation and Un said he liked me and he's really a hell of a fellow....we ate chocolate cake together" or we'd hear a really big boom.

Besides, a big part of how little Un's people have kept in power for three generations is by "defending" their country from the big bad U.S. how could he change any part of that and not lose some leverage on his people? They might start to wander away.

'Course if trump really wanted the meeting, maybe someone could have wired his mouth shut, and Pence spouting off on fux "news" also sure helped, because any foreign country knows to watch fux to see what trump is going to think next.

It seems the left wingers here don't want it to happen. What does that say about them? I suspect that China will crack down on their corrupt little surrogate before long, "urging" Fat Boy to get his ass to the table.

It seems the left wingers here don't want it to happen. What does that say about them?

It seems like the right is incapable of recognizing when they are being played. What does that say about them? 

I suspect that China will crack down on their corrupt little surrogate before long, "urging" Fat Boy to get his ass to the table.

Trump cancelled the meeting, NOT NK. 

It seems the left wingers here don't want it to happen.

I've been laughing at their comments. They don't understand that the summit is still possible and clearly don't understand how Trump and his administration works. The door is still open, and Trump threw the ball into KJU's court.

I was very much looking forward to being there with you. Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and open hostility displayed in your most recent statement, I feel it is inappropriate, at this time, to have this long-planned meeting. Therefore, please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place. You talk about nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used.

I felt a wonderful dialogue was building up between you and me, and ultimately, it is only that dialogue that matters. Someday, I look very much forward to meeting you. In the meantime, I want to thank you for the release of the hostages who are now home with their families. That was a beautiful gesture and was very much appreciated.

If you change your mind having to do with this most important summit, please do not hesitate to call me or write. The world, and North Korea in particular has lost a great opportunity for lasting peace and great prosperity and wealth. This missed opportunity is a truly sad moment in history.

'They don't understand that the summit is still possible and clearly don't understand how Trump and his administration works.'

Donald Rump and his administration clearly don't understand how Rump and his administration works.  

The door is still open, and Trump threw the ball into KJU's court.

Well Trump is going to have to get it together before the end of the year or the date on his commemorative coin will expire. 

Has Jasper said, Trump simply has thrown the bouncy ball back into Kim's court. What should Kim do now, he's simply back where he was, having gained nothing!

I had to laugh at that. OMG....

the date on his commemorative coin will expire.

The white house has put the coins on sale now, get 'um while they're snot! They'll be like a misprinted stamp someday, a real collectors item.

I suspect that China will crack down on their corrupt little surrogate before long, "urging" Fat Boy to get his ass to the table.

Ignorant comment Greg. China OWNS North Korea, Trump is being played by China through their dog NK. Same as we have with Israel.

You folks got played...Trump can't close a deal ever. He folds every time.

He just folded for China. He folded for the Steel and Aluminum producing countries.

Everything he touches falls apart.

Everything he touches falls apart.

And everyone who gets close to him gets burned.

A HUGE misstep in foreign policy, sighting Libya...or was it?  Is this America saving face?  NK agreeing to give up their nuclear capability was fantasy derived in a self absorbed dreamland, perhaps the White House woke up!

So we're back to square one. It NK does something really stupid there will be very bad consequences for them. China is not amused by this latest act of defiance by their little neighbor and the world opinion will be that North Korea caused this opportunity for talks to break down, not Trump.

the world opinion will be that North Korea caused this opportunity for talks to break down, not Trump.

In your opinion. 

The buck stops at the oval, always has, always will.  The world, with numerous prior US cabinet members, already viewed it as a fools errand.  NK history was a sure indicator. 

NK history was a sure indicator.

North Korea does indeed have terrible and misdirected history. I don't think that they can keep it up for much longer in this fast paced and changing world.

China is not amused by this latest act of defiance by their little neighbor and the world opinion will be that North Korea caused this opportunity for talks to break down, not Trump.

China is more than amused, Trump looks like a chump yet again in front of the world and China played coach with NK to make that happen.

Every country in the world already knows about Trump and nobody...NOBODY is shaking in their boots.

He fucked up with TPP and is now trying to weasel his way back in, he fucked up with the Iran deal thinking he'd get backup from the others....nope. He fucked up with the tariff bullshit and rolled over as soon as they told him China is buying agriculture from everyone except American farmers.

There's a retail and financial apocalypse coming, what's he doing about it? Going after Bezos? 

So many of you keep talking about a second term, I have serious doubts the first one will be completed. Tick-Tock...the scandals are pouring out now.

Maybe Un had already decided to quit testing anyway, he had a working model so he wasn't giving away anything special.

From reports it was actually South Korea that brought them to talk and that was a result of the fear that trump was going to motivate NK to war and that alone would create the environment to extend the olive branch. Trump then takes credit for creating an untenable situation that results in a potential of talks to resolve the issue, then as soon as trump waddles back in the chaos resumes.

From reports it was actually South Korea that brought them to talk and that was a result of the fear that trump was going to motivate NK to war and that alone would create the environment to extend the olive branch.

I suspect any progress made between SK and NK was due to the fact that the Trump regime wasn't a party to them......and that's because Trump is so incompetent that he's undermined and understaffed his own State Dept.

"Many people are saying" that Trump isn't qualified for anything more complicated than playing golf.

Remember when the North Koreans promised not to develop nuclear weapons when President Clinton authorized nuclear technology to North Korea?  Yeah, that promise didn't last very long either.

Bill Clinton Once Struck a Nuclear Deal With North Korea

President Bill Clinton took the podium on October 18, 1994, with a speech that reads like a sigh of relief—the announcement of a landmark nuclear agreement between the United States and North Korea. “This agreement is good for the United States, good for our allies, and good for the safety of the entire world,” he assured the nation. Called the Agreed Framework, it was designed to put the brakes on North Korea’s nuclear program, and it promised to put an end to years of increasing nuclear tension, including a near war, to a halt.

“This agreement represents the first step on the road to a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula,” Clinton said. “It does not rely on trust.” In exchange for North Korea ending its nuclear weapons program, the United States agreed to normalize relations with the nation—and both agreed to pursue “formal assurances” not to use nukes against one another.
The agreement—forged against all odds in an environment of fear and worry—seemed bulletproof. So why did it fail just a few years later? The reasons why are rooted in behind-the-scenes negotiations and international mistrust.

North Korea had been preparing for nuclear war since the Cold War, when the USSR began to train North Korean scientists to build nuclear weapons. As part of the Communist bloc, North Korea was closely aligned with the USSR, and Moscow provided the technology, training and even geological surveys that helped North Korea locate local deposits of graphite and uranium ore that could be used to create nuclear weapons.

According to Derek Bolton, who works with the national security think tank American Security Project, North Korea was well on its way to a nuclear weapons program by the 1960s, and had conducted successful experiments with fission, the underlying chemical phenomenon that can cause a nuclear reaction, under the supervision of the USSR as early as 1963.

Over the years, North Korea tried to find more support for its nuclear program, including engaging South Korea in talks about whether the two countries should develop a joint nuclear weapon in secret. (South Korea declined.) But it took until the 1980s for the world to realize that North Korea might be serious about building nukes—and to recognize that it might be closer to  weapons than previously thought.

Despite its apparent commitment to developing nuclear weapons, North Korean leader Kim Il Sung did ratify the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons in 1985. The international treaty, which was designed to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons, had been in force since 1970, but North Korea had lagged behind other nations like the United States. Now that North Korea was on board, though, it also began mining uranium and producing plutonium—both critical to the production of nuclear weapons—and creating nuclear reactors during the 1980s. Then, in 1989, the Soviet Union fell, leaving North Korea increasingly isolated.

“With the collapse of the Soviet Union, North Korea lost its main protector,” Georgetown University professor Keir Leiber told Vox’s Zack Beauchamp. “What does it have that can counter conventional US power? The answer is obvious: nuclear weapons.”
That same year, the U.S. discovered Kim Il Sung’s covert nuclear program using satellite imagery, and North Korea kept developing weapons even after agreeing with South Korea not to test or manufacture nukes. As a result, the International Atomic Energy Agency, an autonomous nuclear oversight organization that reports directly to the United Nations, asked to conduct inspections of North Korean nuclear sites in 1992 and 1993. North Korea refused, and threatened to back out of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

This represented a double crisis for then-President Clinton. Republicans in Congress pressured him not to negotiate with North Korea, but the international community and Democrats argued that engagement was the only solution. Meanwhile, North Korea escalated its rhetoric, telling the United States that North Korea would turn Seoul into “a sea of flames” if the U.S. pursued sanctions through the United Nations.

The U.S. considered military intervention, but also sent Jimmy Carter to Pyongyang to meet with Kim Il Sung. Carter convinced Kim to start nuclear talks—but the day negotiations were supposed to begin, Kim died. He was succeeded by his son, Kim Jong Il, the very man who founded the most controversial nuclear complex in North Korea, a facility in Yongbyon.

Things looked grim, but Clinton became increasingly convinced that direct negotiations were the only way. However, American negotiators doubted from the start that diplomacy would work. “The initial contacts were to test the proposition that we could address their security concerns by getting them to give up their nuclear weapons,” Robert Gallucci, the chief negotiator, told Beyond Parallel in a 2016 interview. “It was not so much of a conviction on anybody’s part…It was possibly true, and worth testing.”

history

Very interesting read ... sorry that I almost copied the whole article, I could not find a stopping point....

There's a bit more to that story......the GOP-controlled Congress refused to provide sufficient funding for the oil shipments or for the light water reactor project which significantly delayed the US end of the deal, and shortly after Dubya took office he abrogated the agreement and canceled the project.

independent.co.uk

theguardian

.

And now the guy who helped sabotage the Agreed Framework is Trump's national security adviser.

I do remember. 

Developed nations/world powers have watched proliferation of nuclear capabilities for energy sources in the developing third world counties for decades.  Sanctions have been utilized in an attempt to keep the same countries from developing nuclear weapons as an outcropping of their growing nuclear energy requirements.  IMO, globalization has hastened third world countries to use methods, means and silent partners to develop nuclear weapon capability as of means of retaining their sovereignty. 

NK is not going to give up it's nuclear weapons or capabilities.  Why would they?

One area where the US has utterly failed is in its NPT obligation to help non-weapons states develop peaceful uses for nuclear energy, particularly with nations we don't like.   Both China and Russia have done a far better job on that front.

What do you expect from a country where half the population still call it "nuke-you-ler" power...

Trump cancels June summit with North Korea's Kim Jong Un

The White House released a letter from Trump addressed to Kim Thursday, announcing that the meeting would not take place as planned.

North Korea also canceled high-level talks with South Korea earlier this month.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill quickly reacted to the cancellation.

"Kim Jun Un, in the words of a wise man 'Congratulations, you just played yourself'. Withdrawing from talks with #NKorea is 100% the right decision. #KJU doesn’t want a deal. He has deliberately sabotaged the talks over the last two weeks & was setting us up to take the blame," Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, tweeted. 

nbcnews

After Kim cancelled talks with South Korea, I never felt it was appropriate to continue talks with North Korea .. would have been quite the 'coup' had South Korea and the United States had been able to reach an agreement with North Korea - yet this is typical dealing with NK, the saber is rattled and the US sends humanitarian aid ... this time it will not happen, just as the Obama administration had to back away from the Six Party talks with NK.

For those that are not familiar with the talks

The Six-Party Talks concerning the DPRK's nuclear program involve the United States, North Korea, China, Japan, Russia and, South Korea. However, the primary players are the US and North Korea. The US has requested the involvement of the other four nations to deny North Korea of its desire to participate in bilateral negotiations with the US.

Six-Party Talks - GlobalSecurity.org

globalsecurity

Sadly it was inevitable. While Mr. Obama's foreign policy may have left a bit to be desired, the yoyo policy of this current administration is downright pathetic.

Everything about this administration is pathetic.

Indeed it is

Indeed it is

Yep, running tainted and corrupt candidates does indeed have consequences. We'll never get to see how Hillary would have handled the crafty little Kimster.

Trump simply created a perilous situation for SK which they sought to resolve, trump created the threat and SK muted it, trump took credit.

Whatsaboutism.

"Many people are saying" that Trump is the least competent president in US history, perhaps in all of history.

Yep, running tainted and corrupt candidates does indeed have consequences

Yep, especially when they win.

Is this America saving face?

It is a failed attempt by Trump to save face. I wouldn't be surprised to hear Trump saying 'Nobody knew that negotiating with North Korea would be so hard.' Trump punted...and is using the excuse that Kim is 'hostile' [DUH!]. This after bringing it the warmonger Bolton. 

If you really want to be honest about it, I think that Kim was the one trying to save face, or perhaps his generals were starting to think of cutting him to shreds with a machine gun.

If you really want to be honest about it, I think that Kim was the one trying to save face,

Kim didn't cancel the meeting, Trump did. 

Kim didn't cancel the meeting, Trump did.

How quickly they blame the other side to protect their idiot in chief.

I think the rest of the world is looking at us as unstable at this point. They can see the internal turmoil we always seem to be embroiled in, the ongoing investigations, the attacks on the justice department and the FBI, new internal investigations wanted, elections coming up with nobody knowing what will happen, congress not knowing either and seem to want to just rush through partisan wish lists during summer break, etc.

I would imagine that China is still in communication with NK. IMO these countries are just biding their time. We are slowly being looked at as a non player and not worth the trouble.

I think the rest of the world is looking at us as unstable at this point.

And Trump has proven to NK and to the world that the US can't be trusted to uphold its side of any bargain.    We're no longer a credible negotiating partner.

I think the rest of the world is looking at us as unstable at this point.

According to my ex pat buddies, they have since November 2016. 

This is par for the course for Trump. Promises, promises and then nada.

• Gonna make China pay? No, we have to save Chinese jobs.
• Gonna get Mexico to pay for a wall? Nope, no one's going to pay for any wall.
• Gonna get rid of Obama Care? Can't do it. Just dump the mandate so premiums go even higher.
• Gonna stick it to Iran? No way. Europe gave Trump a big middle finger.

They need to rename his book, "The Art of Breaking the Deal". The only thing Trump has done that will have any lasting consequences is his SCOTUS pick AND the jokes at his expense.

Trump, the "genius", got trolled by a tin plated fat dictator with bad hair. That's a page or two in someone's book. 

Some time ago president trump revealed something about himself that I will always remember and apply to any words I hear coming from this man.

He said. " Words to me don't matter much, it's deeds that count." 

WOW........... So in other words he will say anything he wants to get what he needs. 

Ever since hearing trump say that I have known not to trust what trump says, you can only trust what he does.

IMO: President trump is a master manipulator who has little regard for truth or reality as long as he gets his way in the end. winning at all costs.. but what is the real long term cost to operating anything this way ?

so sad !

...........................................................

I was raised and lived on the premise and idea that a man's word meant something... everything.

But, Not any longer I guess.  

I suppose this is the new norm: Say what ever ya want to get what ya need !! 

WOW so sad !

* Matt Yglesias nailed it!

The White House announced Thursday morning that it is canceling the planned summit with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un in light of statements from the North Korean government that make it clear that Pyongyang is not, in fact, going to make the kind of nuclear disarmament promises that the United States was expecting.

This is, all things considered, almost certainly a better idea than continuing to raise unrealistic expectations for a summit that was doomed to fail.

But it raises the question: Why did so much of the media and the political system insist on taking President Trump’s Korean nuclear diplomacy so seriously in the first place ?

The factors that led to the collapse of the summit were there from the beginning. The only thing that ever seemed remotely promising about it was Trump’s say-so, but Trump’s say-so is meaningless. Not only is he a person who makes factual misstatements and lies, but he’s a person who has gotten ahead in life through extensive use of bullshit , leaving in his wake a trail of broken promises.

From his unpaid bills to contractors to his scam university to his brief period ripping off the shareholders of his eponymous company, this is what Trump does: He exploits normal human nature to sucker people into trusting him, and then he exploits his own ever-growing fame and power to get away with breaking the rules.

As president, this pattern has only continued.

Removed Taunting "BF"

Read this and learn something

thenewstalkers

But, but, President Trump is still gonna get the Nobel Peace Prize, right?  Right??

The South Korea government has been left high and dry by Trump.   President Moon,  who is new enough in office to need to keep consolidating his base, is left to explain to the South Korean people how his influence on Trump disappeared so fast.  South Korea is a major ally of the US , but they werent even given a courtesy heads up that this cancellation was going to happen .

---

nymag

Trump is also the author of the strategy itself, as it were. The president was obviously manipulated by other actors into a series of impulsive decisions that rewarded his momentary ego needs. As Korea specialist Robert Kelly explained, Trump was pushed into accepting a summit — a longtime North Korean objective — by South Korea, which had begun to doubt Trump’s commitment to its defense. South Korean president Moon Jae-in shrewdly played upon Trump’s narcissism by floating the prospect he might win a Nobel Prize. Soon Trump was minting commemorative coins to celebrate the occasion, and his supporters were chanting “No-bel! No-bel!”

Many foreign-policy analysts endorse the idea of bilateral talks between the leaders of North Korea and the United States. The problem is this particular leader of the United States, and his belief that seat-of-the-pants temperamental spontaneity is the best approach to the problem of avoiding nuclear war.

The positive gloss on this approach is that Trump is deliberately using unpredictability to his advantage. “Kim Jong-un’s entire lineage is having people think he might be crazy. Trump’s like: ‘You’re crazy? How about this,” a source tells Axios . David Brooks suggested, “Donald Trump understands the thug mind a whole lot better than the people who attended our prestigious Foreign Service academies.”

And yet the closer examination of Trump’s method is less encouraging. He has, characteristically, refused to learn anything about the subject he was putatively negotiating. Trump “has been almost singularly focused on the pageantry of the summit — including the suspenseful roll-out of details,” reported the Associated Press . “He has not been deeply engaged in briefing materials on North Korea’s nuclear program, said three people with knowledge of the White House efforts.” There is a real “Madman Theory” of nuclear deterrence, but there isn’t really a “Petulant Adolescent Theory.”

Fortunately, the commemorative coins do not list a date for the summit any more specific than “2018,” so there’s still plenty of time for it to be held without their going to waste. If it fails, the coins might turn up in the hands of some impoverished children in the developing world, like those pre-printed championship T-shirts for losing teams.

Here's hoping Moon gets through this.  It's certainly not his fault that the American people were stupid enough to vote for a totally useless clown like Trump.

So, John Bolton essentially threatens North Korea with devastation AFTER peace is underway. NK hears and sees this, gets pissed, makes a counter threat. Trump uses it as the excuse he needed to stand on the "Oh well, at least I tried" platform. War ensues?

Let's not forget that the idiot sycophant Pence said that North Korea will end like Libya only if 'Kim Jong Un doesn't make a deal'. Of course Pence is too stupid to recognize that Libya ended like it did after they made a deal. We have Dumb and Dumber in the WH. You can't make this shit up. 

We have Dumb and Dumber in the WH.

Things have to change. This can't persist.

Jah. Except inasmuch as I don't think Pence is stupid. Cruel and heartless? Yes. Stupid? Nah.

Cruel and heartless? Yes.

Indeed! He has proven that time after time after time. I hope one day he will see the same as he has done to others done to him.

A little karma is always good for balance.

Jah. Except inasmuch as I don't think Pence is stupid. Cruel and heartless? Yes. Stupid? Nah.

As a resident of Indiana, this comes as no surprise to me. Cruel and heartless without question. An incompetent Governor, absolutely! Now an incompetent sycophant for Trump. 

Yet Ryan, the 'Speaker of the House' unleashed Nunes, Trump's minion, and couldn't be bothered to attend the meeting yesterday. Without Congressional oversight, we have little to no options. Trump pays no 'political price' for his actions since his fans care more about their 'special interests' than they do for the country. Unlike Nixon, Trump can't be shamed into resigning since Trump cares not for the 'good of the nation'. 

Since JR is suspended and cannot moderate this article, it will be locked until he returns.