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GOP Strategist Quits Republican Party , Saying Trump's Republican Party Has Become "Corrupt, Indecent, and Immoral"

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  johnrussell  •  6 years ago  •  297 comments

GOP Strategist Quits Republican Party , Saying Trump's Republican Party Has Become "Corrupt, Indecent, and Immoral"

You can say Steve Schmidt is a "never Trumper", at this point I expect he is quite proud of that title. Along with other Republicans and conservatives such as William Krystol, David Frum, Rick Wilson, George Will, and Ana Navarro, Schmidt has been denouncing Trump for some time on cable news shows. 

But I can recall the Republican presidential debates of 2016 , when Schmidt was promoting the views of the various candidates as they were being discussed on MSNBC in the post-debate panels. So he has been a Republican and was conservative enough at one point to have worked for Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. And of course he was a high level manager on the McCain presidential campaign in 2008, and McCain is hardly a liberal. 

Schmidt has had a gut full of the bile that emanates from Donald Trump, it is about that simple. This is what he wrote in a series of tweets.

29 years and nine months ago I registered to vote and became a member of The Republican Party which was founded in 1854 to oppose slavery and stand for the dignity of human life. Today I renounce my membership in the Republican Party. It is fully the party of Trump.

It is corrupt, indecent and immoral. With the exception of a few Governors like Baker, Hogan and Kasich it is filled with feckless cowards who disgrace and dishonor the legacies of the party’s greatest leaders. This child separation policy is connected to the worst abuses of humanity in our history. It is connected by the same evil that separated families during slavery and dislocated tribes and broke up Native American families. It is immoral and must be repudiated. Our country is in trouble. Our politics are badly broken. The first step to a season of renewal in our land is the absolute and utter repudiation of Trump and his vile enablers in the 2018 election by electing Democratic majorities. I do not say this as an advocate of a progressive agenda. I say it as someone who retains belief in DEMOCRACY and decency.

On Ronald Reagan’s grave are these words. “ I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.” He would be ashamed of McConnell and Ryan and all the rest while this corrupt government establishes internment camps for babies. Everyone of these complicit leaders will carry this shame through history. There legacies will be ones of well earned ignominy. They have disgraced their country and brought dishonor to the Party of Lincoln.

I have spent much of my life working in GOP politics. I have always believed that both parties were two of the most important institutions to the advancement of human freedom and dignity in the history of the world. Today the GOP has become a danger to our democracy and values.

This Independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our Republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our Allies. That party is the Democratic Party.


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  author  JohnRussell    6 years ago

President* Trump's former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, mocked a 10 year old migrant girl with Down's Syndrome on a Fox News show last night. 

This is the level of low life behavior that Schmidt can no longer tolerate. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1    6 years ago

Nobody knows who this slug is, nor does anyone care. Another non news article

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    6 years ago

Schmidt was the chief campaign strategist for the John McCain presidential campaign in 2008, and worked in the George W Bush White House as a counselor to Vice President Cheney and worked, from the White House on Bush's re-election campaign along with Karl Rove. He is hardly someone that no one in politics has never heard of. 

He was played by Woody Harrelson in a Hollywood movie as well. Does that impress you? lol. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    6 years ago

People who pay attention know who he is

 
 
 
tomwcraig
Junior Silent
1.1.3  tomwcraig  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    6 years ago

So, you continue to point out why this is no big loss to the GOP.  Based on what he has said, and the fact he has joined the party that backed a corrupt, immoral, and indecent candidate that has demonstrated that corruption, immorality, and indecency for well over 40 years; he probably would have voted for that candidate over Ronald Reagan today and shows that he is projecting onto Trump his own lack of integrity.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
1.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    6 years ago
Schmidt was the chief campaign strategist for the John McCain

Says it all.

He's just another MSNBC/Morning Joe type Paid minion !

Kinda like Dershowitz is on Fox, according to Liberals.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.5  author  JohnRussell  replied to  tomwcraig @1.1.3    6 years ago

Schmidt specifically says he is now an Independent voter. He says we need to elect Democrats in November simply because they are the only realistic alternative to the corrupt, immoral and indecent Republicans in a two party system. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  tomwcraig @1.1.3    6 years ago

He left a party that backed a corrupt, immoral, and unethical candidate

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.5    6 years ago

Will you be calling all these folks deplorables, too?

Report: 46,000 Pa. Democrats Become Republicans Due To ...
pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/...democrats-become-republicans-due-to...

Mar 10, 2016 · Nearly 46,000 Pennsylvania Democrats have switched to Republicans ... Numbers show that some Republicans are also switching to the Democratic party, ...

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
1.1.8  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    6 years ago
Nobody knows who this slug is, nor does anyone care. Another non news article

Speak for yourself!

Schmidt was the chief campaign strategist for the John McCain presidential campaign in 2008, and worked in the George W Bush White House as a counselor to Vice President Cheney...

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
1.1.9  epistte  replied to  tomwcraig @1.1.3    6 years ago
Based on what he has said, and the fact he has joined the party that backed a corrupt, immoral, and indecent candidate that has demonstrated that corruption, immorality, and indecency for well over 40 years; he probably would have voted for that candidate over Ronald Reagan today and shows that he is projecting onto Trump his own lack of integrity.

Steve Schmidt is far from being a nobody among the GOP and in Washington power circles. Even a lefty like me knows who he is, despite the fact that he is a traditional Republican.

Washington, D.C.

By late 2000, Schmidt was communications director of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce.

In 2001, he was the spokesman of the National Republican Congressional Committee , becoming the Communications Director by 2002. He left the NRCC in early 2003 to work for the lobbying firm Direct Impact Company.

Schmidt joined the Bush administration as a Deputy Assistant to the President and Counselor to Vice President Dick Cheney . In 2004, he was a member of the senior strategic planning group, led by White House adviser Karl Rove , that ran President George W. Bush 's re-election campaign; Schmidt oversaw the reelection "war room". In 2005 and 2006, he was the White House strategist responsible for the U.S. Supreme Court nominations of Samuel Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts .

 
 
 
Fireryone
Freshman Silent
1.1.10  Fireryone  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    6 years ago
Nobody knows who this slug is, nor does anyone care. Another non news article

This is a pretty big deal even if you don't know who he is.  The party is shedding members.

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
1.1.11  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    6 years ago
"Nobody knows who this slug is,...."

If you don't know who Corey Lewandowski is, you have not been paying attention.  He is a political operative that was a Trump campaign manager until he got fired, and then spent a short time at CNN. Now he is at Fox News, where he can lie at will.  

 
 
 
TTGA
Professor Silent
1.1.12  TTGA  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.5    6 years ago
Schmidt specifically says he is now an Independent voter. He says we need to elect Democrats in November

If he's an Independent, what the hell is he doing talking about voting for Democrats?  Just another professional politician going wherever the wind seems to be blowing at the time.  In other words (that might be understood by the Democrats here), just another political Ho.

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
1.2  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  JohnRussell @1    6 years ago

I watched that unbelievable act performed by Lewandowski, and I could hardly believe what I saw. I would not have been so shocked if it was done by a common knuckle-dragger because they often display that level of sophistication, but Lewandowski is supposed to be a party leader.

The GOP has become a group of far right retards, but with Trump at the helm they marking a place in American history that has become quite an embarrassment for all of us.

Donald Trump has cost this country the confidence and respect of our friends and leaders from countries around the world.   

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Jerry Verlinger @1.2    6 years ago

Nice to see you back on the forum Jerry. Your insightful comments have been sorely missed. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
1.2.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Jerry Verlinger @1.2    6 years ago

Welcome back, Jerry! Good to see you here with us again. (smile)

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
1.2.3  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    6 years ago

Thanks John. I've been allowing myself to sidetracked lately. I hope to get back into constant posting, but right now my 'puter is acting up with ridicules delays, and is not notifying me of new comments  As soon as I'm able I will be jumping on your articles to help dealing with the Right Wingnuts. (There seems to be a lot more of them around here)

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
1.2.4  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  Raven Wing @1.2.2    6 years ago

A warm thanks to you also Raven. (Smiles are nice). I'm sure there are a bunch of jokers around here that are saying "oh no, Mr. Wiseguy is posting again." 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
1.2.5  Raven Wing  replied to  Jerry Verlinger @1.2.4    6 years ago
I'm sure there are a bunch of jokers around here that are saying "oh no, Mr. Wiseguy is posting again."

That's OK....we know who they are and most of them are ignored anyway. (grin)  And it is good to have you back. thumbs up

 
 
 
TTGA
Professor Silent
1.2.6  TTGA  replied to  Jerry Verlinger @1.2    6 years ago
Donald Trump has cost this country the confidence and respect of our friends and leaders from countries around the world.

Grow up Jerry.  This country has had no friends or respect anywhere in the world since we bailed on our friends in 1973.  That's the price a country pays for turning on those we had pledged to support.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
1.2.7  lennylynx  replied to  Jerry Verlinger @1.2.3    6 years ago

You can add me to the list of members who want to see more of your comments, Jerry, it would be great to have you show up here a little more.

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
1.2.8  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  Raven Wing @1.2.5    6 years ago
That's OK....we know who they are and most of them are ignored anyway. 
The more outrageous (stupid) they act, the more I am attracted to go after them. Right Wing comments are the most fun, they are one of the main reason I am here. 
And it is good to have you back.
Thank you, it's good to be here.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Participates
3  Galen Marvin Ross    6 years ago

For the Republican Party to lose someone who is as loyal as Schmidt was to the party it says a lot about how far down the rabbit hole the GOP has gone.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
3.1  Krishna  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @3    6 years ago
For the Republican Party to lose someone who is as loyal as Schmidt was to the party it says a lot about how far down the rabbit hole the GOP has gone.

The Republican Party has changed a lot in recent years:

Trump Ally Mocks Migrant With Down Syndrome

Trump Mocks Reporter With Disability 

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
3.1.1  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  Krishna @3.1    6 years ago

I'm sure the Trump supporters had no idea he would be this bad. Hopefully the 2018 elections will allow congress to get serious about impeachment. He has GOT to go.

He is my 14nth president (I was 5 years old when FDR died), but I've never seen anything like this asshole. He has ruined the image of the U.S. Presidency and is embarrassing the entire country.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
3.1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Jerry Verlinger @3.1.1    6 years ago
He has ruined the image of the U.S. Presidency and is embarrassing the entire country.

Well said. And very true. There are many here who are quick to make excuses for him and give him heroes credit where it is not earned. However, Trump is trying to live in a reality show of his own making as he misses his own "Apprentice" show where he called all the shots, and I can't wait until a judge tells him "You're Fired!!! Then Trump will blame it on Obama and accuse the judge of being an Obama operative. (snicker)

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4  JBB    6 years ago

No wonder the once Grand Old Party of Lincoln is now known merely as "the gop"...

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
4.1  Skrekk  replied to  JBB @4    6 years ago

Greedy Old Perverts

 
 
 
KDMichigan
Junior Participates
4.1.1  KDMichigan  replied to  Skrekk @4.1    6 years ago
Greedy Old Perverts

I'm sure Weiner would disagree with you.

Then there is the elite Hollywood donor Weinstein the champion of the why me too movement that disagrees with you.

I don't even want to get started with creepy Joe Biden Mr. can I grope your child here...

And who is Ed Murray, Jacob Schwartz, Robert Menendez.. and the list goes on.laughing dude

And before panties get in a bind there are plenty of pervert Republicans too.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
4.1.2  lennylynx  replied to  KDMichigan @4.1.1    6 years ago

Even Tony Weiner would have been a more respectable president than Trump will ever be.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
4.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  KDMichigan @4.1.1    6 years ago

Oh, we playing the name dropping game? OK! 

Andrew Buhr, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Beverly Russell, Bill Thomas, Bob Livingston, Bobby Stumbo, Brent Parker, Brian J. Doyle, Carey Lee Cramer, Craig J. Spence, Dan Crane, David Swartz, David Vitter, Deborah Steelman, Dennis L. Rader, Don Sherwood, Donald Rumsfeld, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, Earl Kimmerling, Ed Schrock, Edison Misla Aldarondo, Edward Schrock, Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr., George Roche III, Harvey Pitt, Henry Hyde, Howard L. Brooks, Howard Scott Heldreth, J.C. Watts, Jack Burkmana, Jack Ryan, Jack W. Gardner, Jean Schmidt, Jeff Miller, Jeffrey Patti, Jessica Cutler, Jim Stelling, Jim Wesr, Joe Braun, Joe Scarborough, John Allen Burt, John Butler, John Collins, John Gosek, John Hathaway, John Paulk, John Peterson, John R. Curtain, John Scmitz, Jon Grunseth, Jon Matthews, Keith Westmoreland, Keola Childs, Kevin Coan, Larry Craig, Larry Dale Floyd, Larry Jack Schwarz, Lawrence E. King, Jr., Leonard Ray Owens, Lou Beres, Mark A. Grethen, Mark Foley, Mark Harris, Mark Pazuhanich, Mark Seidensticker, Marty Glickman, Mary Kay LeTourneau, Matthew Glavin, Merrill Robert Barter, Mike Hintz, Mitchell Wade, Neal Horsley, Nicholas Elizondo, Nicholas Morency, Otis O'Neal Horsley, Parker J. Bena, Pat McPherson, Pat Robertson, Paul Ingram, Paul Skiles, Peter Dibble, Philip Giordano, Ralph Reed, Randal David Ankeney, Randall Terry, Randy Cunningham, Rev. C. Stephen White, Richard A. Dasen, Sr., Richard A. Delgaudio, Richard Gardner, Robert Bauman, Robin Vanderwall, Ronald C. Kline, Russell Harding, Sam Walls, Stephen White, Strom Thurmond, Sue Myrick, Ted Bundy, Tom Shortridge, William Gillin.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
4.1.4  Skrekk  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.3    6 years ago

Don't forget Lisa Biron .......

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
4.1.5  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.3    6 years ago

A messy display of a lot of worthless research, but it means nothing, has no message and delivers no opinion. 

Your comments are often of value, but this was a waste of time.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
Junior Participates
4.1.6  KDMichigan  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.3    6 years ago
And before panties get in a bind there are plenty of pervert Republicans too.
 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
4.1.7  cjcold  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.3    6 years ago

I'm afraid I have to draw the line at Ted Bundy.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
4.1.8  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  MrFrost @4.1.3    6 years ago

I never heard of most of these people, but Ted Bundy?

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
4.1.9  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  lennylynx @4.1.2    6 years ago
Even Tony Weiner would have been a more respectable president than Trump will ever be.

Donald Trump is a prick. There's nothing he can do about it, he's 72 years old, and his business practices turned him into being a prick, and he likes being a prick.

So we have a prick for a president.

 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5  Trout Giggles    6 years ago

Holy shit! For someone like Steve Schmidt to repudiate the Republican Party......AND endorse democratic majorities in the next election.....

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
5.1  Krishna  replied to  Trout Giggles @5    6 years ago
Holy shit! For someone like Steve Schmidt to repudiate the Republican Party......AND endorse democratic majorities in the next election.....

A lot of Major Republicans have left the GOP since Trump appeared on the scene. Many liberals tend to bash the entire party, but there are people of integrity:

TRUMP IS A ‘BLOWHARD,’ ‘I DON’T LIKE HIM’ AND I VOTED FOR HILLARY, GEORGE BUSH SAYS IN NEW BOOK

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
6  Sunshine    6 years ago

OMG.....the entire GOP is dismantling because of this guy... OMG another crisis.... laughing dude laughing dude

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
6.1  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Sunshine @6    6 years ago

sorry sunshine... 

never trumpers can let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.  (not going to be missed one bit)

crisis?  LOL too funny :)

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
6.1.1  Sunshine  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @6.1    6 years ago

it was sarcasm....should use that /s tag more.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
6.1.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Sunshine @6.1.1    6 years ago

ahhhh.... no worries.

I leave the sarcasm tag out on purpose... LOL

sarcasm is best served cold... please continue :)

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Participates
6.1.3  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @6.1    6 years ago
can let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.

Soon the only people that will be in the Republican Party will be these people.

thUNEJMRAD.jpg

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
6.1.4  Skrekk  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @6.1.3    6 years ago

Those particular white supremacists were just granted a permit for an August rally at  Lafayette Square near the White House.    Our Fuhrer will be quite proud.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Participates
6.1.5  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Skrekk @6.1.4    6 years ago
Those particular white supremacists were just granted a permit for an August rally at

I wonder if he'll attend.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
6.1.6  Skrekk  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @6.1.5    6 years ago

No doubt he'll use a golf cart or something......it's far too much work to march in a rally while carrying a tiki torch.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
6.1.7  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @6.1.3    6 years ago
Soon the only people that will be in the Republican Party will be these people

yeah... I get it.. I remember now....  trump "will never run for president" and "trump will never win."  you guys are always right... LOL

have you not noticed everything the left said would happen to the right - has actually happened to the left?  probably not huh?

lost over 1000 seats in govt across this nation in record time = democrats winning?  are you sure your smart?

based on your prediction? the current trend suggests the democrat's party is in serious trouble 

but seriously... did you really think people like you were going to run our country into the future?  not a chance.

your backing a failed ideology.. one day you may figure that out. if not your destined to be pissed off the rest of your life.

the left may win some short lived battles but they will never win the war. 

Cheers :)

 

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Participates
6.1.8  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @6.1.7    6 years ago
trump "will never run for president" and "trump will never win."

The thing is eight ball, I never said that, I was issuing warnings that Trump had a chance to win if the Democrats didn't wake the fuck up, guess what, they didn't until after the election. A Japanese Admiral after the bombing of Pearl Harbor said it best, "I think we've awakened a sleeping giant."

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
6.1.9  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @6.1.8    6 years ago
Trump had a chance to win if the Democrats didn't wake the fuck up, guess what, they didn't

actually, they did wake up.... about 7 million of them anyway.  

they bailed on a failed ideology and like the crispy burnt bernie voters, will not return.

the daily Kos of the left has eaten their own... that too was predictable.. and I did.

you think blue collar democrats in the rust belt want open borders, shit trade deals and higher taxes over actual jobs? 

think again.

  1. black employment historic highs
  2. hispanic employment historic highs
  3. trouble for democrats? historic highs

 

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
6.1.10  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @6.1    6 years ago
crisis?  LOL too funny

'snot funny at all ...... yeah it's a crisis, DJT is an embarrassment to this country. He is showing, on a daily basis, he cannot manage the US presidency. The only thing he likes to do is have rallies where he can brag about himself. 

The guy has a bolt lose and he needs to be removed asap.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
6.1.11  Raven Wing  replied to  Jerry Verlinger @6.1.10    6 years ago
The guy has a bolt lose and he needs to be removed asap

A bolt? More like more than half, and several air leaks as well. 

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
6.1.12  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Jerry Verlinger @6.1.10    6 years ago
yeah it's a crisis,

only in your mind.... and perhaps others on the left.

the rest of us are not tired of winning just yet.

cheers :)

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Guide
6.1.13  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @6.1.12    6 years ago
the rest of us are not tired of winning just yet.

Winning what, exactly?  

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
6.1.14  Raven Wing  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @6.1.13    6 years ago

Thumbs Up 2

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.15  Ender  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @6.1.13    6 years ago

I would say a successful coup of the republican party.

 
 
 
tomwcraig
Junior Silent
6.1.16  tomwcraig  replied to  Ender @6.1.15    6 years ago

How is a guy who promises to do X, Y, and Z to win an election; then does X, Y, and Z after winning the election a coup?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.17  Ender  replied to  tomwcraig @6.1.16    6 years ago

It was a joke.

People are saying that the party has become the trump party.

 
 
 
tomwcraig
Junior Silent
6.1.18  tomwcraig  replied to  Ender @6.1.17    6 years ago

And, those people are the so-called Anti-Trumpers.  They are people whom have hated Trump from the moment it looked like he might win the Republican nomination ahead of Jeb Bush.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.19  Ender  replied to  tomwcraig @6.1.16    6 years ago

Though I am tempted (I know I shouldn't) to ask what he has promised to do that he has.

The border wall is actually not underway for new construction (except pre-existing work). Hillary is not in jail. Nothing has been done about the border. He just signed continuing sanctions on NK, and said that they are still a threat.

Taxes for corporations were lowered, yet that has been a republican dream for years.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
6.1.20  A. Macarthur  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @6.1.3    6 years ago

IMG_0373.JPG

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
6.1.21  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Raven Wing @6.1.11    6 years ago

He is so full of hot air, Melania locks him in the bathroom with a wrinkled shirt she plans on wearing.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7  author  JohnRussell    6 years ago

the entire GOP is dismantling because of this guy..

You've finally come up with a good idea. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8  Hal A. Lujah    6 years ago

This was inevitable.  Schmidt (rightly) hasn't had a good thing to say about this administration and its influence on the gop since Trump was elected.  It's nice to hear him declare it though.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
9  Sean Treacy    6 years ago

He claims to be a Republican?  All he's done since 2008 is bash Republicans and cheer Democrats and their policies. Hell, he probably voted for Obama while working for McCain.  

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
10  The Magic 8 Ball    6 years ago

This Independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our Republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our Allies. That party is the Democratic Party.

such bs right there...   there is no chance of that my friends.

  • Satisfaction rises among Republicans and independents, not among Democrats
  • today's version of the left is going to be left behind.  (they will be forced to re-brand and put our country first)
  • it will be at least a decade or more until the left gets its schit together again.
  • (first they have to kick out / marginalize the progressives)

 
 
 
owlsview677
Freshman Silent
10.1  owlsview677  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @10    6 years ago

It is always a pleasure to see another Establishment Republican bite the dust and go running to the left wing Democratic Party. But, but. Hold that thought.

It's amazing how the Democratic Party which has vilified and "hated" people like Schmidt and the people he has worked for for decades, now welcome them with open arms. But,but. Desperation?

Now after all of these years of not being able to work together are now uniting? Uniting against. Why President Trump of course. The first President to come along and attack the status quo that virtually everybody has been complaining about.

Of course the Democrats don't have much choice. They are so fragmented that despite people like Schumer and Pelosi the establishment doesn't have as much of a grip on Democrats anymore. Nobody does. Could be that the best candidate in 2020 for Democrats will be Flake.

Dem. versus Rep. is just a smokescreen. Establishment versus The People is the real deal.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.1.1  CB  replied to  owlsview677 @10.1    6 years ago

And the ink will flow. . . .

"Big Bossman" Trump just repented. Last evening Senator Schumer told President Trump and his sidekicks to pack sand. And today, the leaky bottom broke in the presidential pen and the ink flows. . . .

BULLETIN:

"Big Bossman" Trump is now aboard Air Force One where he is headed to Minnesota for a rally with supporters - - No doubt "Big Bossman" Trump has packed a plane load of harsh and mocking epithets for those who today broke the back of his family separation policy. Standby for more breaking news from Minnesota.

 
 
 
lady in black
Professor Quiet
10.1.3  lady in black  replied to    6 years ago

Of course he will keep blaming the Democrats and not himself or the Keebler Elf.  Remember, nothing is EVER his fault.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.1.4  CB  replied to  owlsview677 @10.1    6 years ago
The first President to come along and attack the status quo that virtually everybody has been complaining about.

"Big Bossman" Trump body-slammed women and children on the southern border. Nobody has been complaining about women and children anywhere.  Nobody attacks women and children. If "Big Bossman" Trump does not permanently wipe away his new policy of separating families, then republicans and fundamentalist evangelicals will have to apologize to Central American cartels and violent gangs, because republicans and fundamentalists are the real "bad hombres."

Trump, not - never -  in my name!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.1.6  CB  replied to    6 years ago

Oh it's going to be brutal to watch across country. "Big Bossman" Trump understands BEING the 'heel' from his times in the squared 'circle' of the WWE. What we will be offered this fine evening is a Minnesota round of arena "Trash Talk" >>>>

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
10.1.7  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @10.1.4    6 years ago

Ok I get it. Your fully onboard with the lies and smears of the left

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
10.1.8  SteevieGee  replied to  livefreeordie @10.1.7    6 years ago

Yep.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Participates
10.1.9  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  livefreeordie @10.1.7    6 years ago
Your fully onboard with the lies and smears of the left

What lies, what smears? Oh, you mean facts, yeah, I forgot, you like to use Trumps and, the GOP talking points, also know as lies to tell your story's.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.1.10  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @10.1.7    6 years ago

1 June 17, 2018:  We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period.

— Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen (@SecNielsen
2.  June 20, 2018: House Speaker Paul Ryan said that the House will vote on Thursday, June 21, on GOP immigration bills, but offered no back-up plan to end family separation if the measure fails to pass.

At the same time, Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielson announced that DHS would be drafting an end to family separation . President Trump then announces that he will be signing an executive order to bring an end to family separation.

"We want to keep families together. It's very important," Trump told reporters during a White House meeting with members of Congress. " I'll be signing something in a little while that's going to do that. "

Reference here:


Pastor , clearly point out the factual honesty in Secretary Nielsen's June 17, 2018 statement. If you can not do it, will you apologize to NewsTalkers liberals here and now?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.1.11  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @10.1.7    6 years ago

Moreover, let me see if I get it. You, a servant no less, trust the words of the Trump Administration, which is on record as delivering lying delusions DAILY over people in the business of providing you facts. People come up for the 'war zones' - the pits of hell - to ask for your help and your stance is based on the lies of some who come - a majority even - they all must be liars! Thus you harden your heart and assent to having migrant child/ren stripped from there only connection to their past; and, that parental connection thrown back into the hell from which it had broken loose.

if this is you, then yes Pastor, . . .I am putting it together now.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
10.1.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  CB @10.1.6    6 years ago

I know it's all show but man that was good! Stone Cold has always been my favorite

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10.1.13  CB  replied to  Trout Giggles @10.1.12    6 years ago

Stone Cold Steve Austin is the man! And the real deal since he aids in running several of the camps that help build quality wrestlers for the entertainment arena industry.

Hi TG! I am hoping to make TWO points with this clip about President Donald Trump:

  1.  He comes out of the 'school' of Vince McMahon's hot lights and trash talk before live audiences.
  2.  WWE taught Trump the skill of playing to an audience: Heel or Face. The WWE is a great place to experiment with role-playing. Trump has spent sufficient time with Vince's audiences honing the Heel character (getting booed) and then in a shoot where he helps cut Vince McMahon's hair off at the end of a pay-per-view, Trump receives the cheers given to every Face (good guy) wrestler:

Donald Trump Working An Audience.

 
 
 
Jerry Verlinger
Freshman Silent
10.1.14  Jerry Verlinger  replied to  livefreeordie @10.1.7    6 years ago
Ok I get it. Your fully onboard with the lies and smears of the left

Please 'splain "lies and smears of the left".

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
12  A. Macarthur    6 years ago

Trump's got a bigger resignation to worry about!

Embattled Trump lawyer Michael Cohen criticizes family

separation policy as he resigns RNC fundraising post: Report

  • Michael Cohen, the longtime former lawyer and fixer for President Donald Trump, has resigned as national deputy finance chair of the Republican National Committee, ABC News reported.
  • Cohen's resignation letter also criticized the Trump administration's policy of separating immigrant children from their parents if the families are caught illegally crossing the border with Mexico.
  • He quit the RNC because of the distractions from a pending criminal investigation by federal prosecutors in New York, and another probe by special counsel Robert Mueller, a report said.
  • Cohen, in the same email obtained by ABC News, also called out the Trump administration for instituting a policy of separating children from parents who cross the U.S.-Mexico border illegally.

    "As the son of a Polish holocaust survivor, the images and sounds of this family separation policy is heart-wrenching," Cohen wrote.*

    *Oooooohhh! Sort of like comparing Trump/Sessions to Nazi "policies."

    Read between the lines folks … and while I hate to say "I told you so," …

    thumbs up

    Check the archives going back to Michael Flynn, "Obstruction of Justice," … etc. .

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
13  livefreeordie    6 years ago

Schmidt has been a Marxist statist “Republican” for 10 years or more. It is fitting that he join his fellow Marxist statists in the Democrat Party

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
13.1  A. Macarthur  replied to  livefreeordie @13    6 years ago
Schmidt has been a Marxist statist “Republican” for 10 years or more. It is fitting that he join his fellow Marxist statists in the Democrat Party

Citation please.

Always ready to do the McCarthyism argument, huh?

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
13.1.1  livefreeordie  replied to  A. Macarthur @13.1    6 years ago

Schmidt run the campaign of liberty McCain. He is a big government liberal who supported the establishment Republicans who are no different from the Democrats. That’s why Schmidt has railed against conservatives for many years.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
13.2  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @13    6 years ago
Schmidt has been a Marxist statist “Republican” for 10 years or more. It is fitting that he join his fellow Marxist statists in the Democrat Party

When exactly did neo-conservative Dubya and Dick Cheney become Marxist-statists? 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
13.2.1  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @13.2    6 years ago

I didn’t say that they were. Bush and Cheney had a lot of Rockefeller Marxist Statists working in the Bush AdministrationGeorge Bush embraced too many of his fathers leftist ideology which is why i always vote 3rd party.

i didn’t vote for Bush

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
13.2.2  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @13.2.1    6 years ago
I didn’t say that they were. Bush and Cheney had a lot of Rockefeller Marxist Statists working in the Bush AdministrationGeorge Bush embraced too many of his fathers leftist ideology which is why i always vote 3rd party.

Everyone who you don't like is a Marxist-statist, despite the obvious. You have no idea what that means but its a convenient political insult in your repertoire.  H.W.Bush was a neo-conservative Republican and was somewhat pragmatic. 

The idea of a leftist Republican in the past 50 years is laughably ludicrous.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
13.2.3  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @13.2.2    6 years ago

It is you who is ignorant of Marxism. I have over 50 years of studying Marxism. I’ve read everything Marx wrote that is available in English.

every point made by Marx in Section II, Proletarians and Communsts, steps to transition from capitalism to communism has been implemented by our government.  Mostly by Democrats with little or no opposition from Republicans.

Republicans have never passed legislation to repeal a single one of these laws and/or policies

Anyone who suggests conservatives control the Republican Party has to be either completely ignorant about conservatism or is dishonest.  The social Democrat Republican Establishment still controls the party which is why no conservative legislation gets passed

The Republicans have never passed any legislation repealing the marxist expansions of Govt by Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Carter, or Obama.

All those programs and departments remain to this day.

Supposed Conservative control of the Federal Govt is a joke. We haven't had conservatism in the Federal govt since Coolidge

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
13.2.4  Skrekk  replied to  livefreeordie @13.2.3    6 years ago
It is you who is ignorant of Marxism. I have over 50 years of studying Marxism.

You certainly have at least 50 years of experience labeling everything which isn't far right wing as being "Marxist" or "Statist".

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
13.2.5  MrFrost  replied to  epistte @13.2    6 years ago
Marxist-statists?

Larry applies that label to everyone he doesn't agree with. Just ignore it. 

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
13.2.6  sixpick  replied to  livefreeordie @13.2.3    6 years ago

Some people are for big government and some people are for Liberty.  The Democrats seem to be 100% for big government to run their lives and quite a few of the Republicans fall right in line with them.  That's one of the biggest reasons this country is having the problems we are having today.  It's futile to get through to most of them after so many years of indoctrination.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
13.2.7  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @13.2.5    6 years ago

the facts bear it out. It is you leftists who live in ignorance and denial.  for instance you and other leftists will argue that i don't know what I'm talking about when I equate socialism and communism.  yet Marx himself stated that socialism was the transitionary stage from capitalism to communism

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
14  livefreeordie    6 years ago

I’m repeatedly challenging all the open borders whiners to answer why none of these supposed “asylum” seekers made any attempt to apply for asylum to the Mexican authorities who under the same international law as the US?  Nor why has not a single one applied for asylum at the US Embassy in Mexico City, or the 9 US Consulates in Mexico (including Mexican cities along the US border?

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
14.1  A. Macarthur  replied to  livefreeordie @14    6 years ago

I invite you to check my article …

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
14.1.1  livefreeordie  replied to  A. Macarthur @14.1    6 years ago

I posted a comment

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
14.2  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @14    6 years ago

Mexico deports record numbers of women and children in US-driven effort

Tens of thousands fleeing violence and poverty deported to Central America after pressure from the US to prevent migrants reaching American border

Nina Lakhani in Mexico City

Wed 4 Feb 2015 07.00 EST Last modified on Wed 29 Nov 2017 19.00 EST

Just the Highlights: — CALBAB.

1. Record numbers of women and children fleeing violence and poverty in Central America were deported by Mexican authorities last year, as part of US-driven operations to stem the flow of migrants reaching the American border.

More than 24,000 women were deported from Mexico in 2014 – double the number sent home in 2013. The upsurge in child detentions was even sharper – climbing 230% to just over 23,000, Mexican interior ministry figures reveal.

2.  Many were captured during security operations targeting train and bus routes commonly used by Central American migrants as part of a new strategy called new Southern Border Plan (Plan Frontera Sur). The plan was launched last summer after Barack Obama declared the unprecedented numbers of unaccompanied children and families seeking refuge at the US border an “urgent humanitarian situation” .

3. Adam Isacson, a security expert at the Washington Office on Latin America, told the Guardian:

“Migration is not a political issue in Mexico. They would not have grabbed on to it without increasingly loud complaints and prodding from the [Obama Administration] to do something about it. Frontera Sur is only about catching migrants, and sending them back before they make it to the US.”

It is unclear how much Mexico is spending on the operations, but the US State Department has agreed to provide $86m to help build new checkpoints, road blocks, naval bases and modernise inspection technologies along the country’s southern border, which has 11 formal and 370 informal crossings (pdf).

Professor Rodolfo Casillas, a migration scholar at the Latin American Social Science Institute (Flacso), said: “Migrants boost local economies as they pass through Mexico, they are not a destabilising factor. Migration also benefits their own country’s economies by alleviating pressure on public services and through remittances.

“The so called crisis was an American crisis, and political pressure to stop the flow came from them.”

There are always ebbs and flows in overland migration to the US, driven by financial crises, civil wars and natural disasters.

4. Human rights activists have denounced violations against migrants and local communities by the militarised enforcement teams, which include reports of kidnapping, human trafficking and widespread extortion. There are also anecdotal reports of a rise in injuries as migrants attempt to avoid officials by jumping off a moving freight train known as The Beast, which migrants often use to travel towards the US.

And new more dangerous and expensive routes through Mexico are already starting emerge as migrants and smugglers adapt.

Migrants are reportedly walking hours to avoid the train where new checkpoints and immigration stations have been set-up. Smugglers are said to be charging hundreds of extra dollars to transport people part of the way by sea, in order to bypass the southern border state of Chiapas. Reference here.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
14.3  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @14    6 years ago

1. Record numbers of women and children fleeing violence and poverty in Central America were deported by Mexican authorities last year, as part of US-driven operations to stem the flow of migrants reaching the American border.

More than 24,000 women were deported from Mexico in 2014 – double the number sent home in 2013. The upsurge in child detentions was even sharper – climbing 230% to just over 23,000, Mexican interior ministry figures reveal.

2.  Many were captured during security operations targeting train and bus routes commonly used by Central American migrants as part of a new strategy called new Southern Border Plan (Plan Frontera Sur) . The plan was launched last summer after Barack Obama declared the unprecedented numbers of unaccompanied children and families seeking refuge at the US border an “urgent humanitarian situation” .  — 14.2   & Reference here.


In 2015 , before President Trump was elected, President Obama authorized the new Southern Border Plan (Plan Frontera Sur) to help alleviate the stresses on the southern border of the United States.

Pastor, did you publicly approve of former President Obama's actions to quench unaccompanied children/migrants arrival at the U.S. southern border? *

Do you want to set the record straight by commending the efforts of the former President today?

* NOTE : President Barack Obama did not separate families at the United States southern border.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
15  CB    6 years ago

And Now This:

I say it as someone who retains belief in DEMOCRACY and decency. — Steve Schmidt

Mr. Schmidt. I can respect this as answer for your resignation from the Republican Party. Good on you. In my discussions with my peers on NewsTalkers the past few days, I was pointed in the direction of The Flores Settlement of 1997 (Flores v Reno) and its companion Flores Settlement of 2016 (Flores v Lynch). Key to both documents, is a little "expression" by the courts that children of migrants and asylum seekers should not be used as deterrent, though the courts were not asked to rule on deterrence as a specific matter as far as I can tell:

In January 2015, a group of Central American migrants,who were not represented by Flores class counsel, filed a putative class action, claiming that the government had adopted a no- release policy as to Central American families, and challenging that alleged policy under the Due Process Clause. R.I.L -R v. Johnson , 80 F. Supp. 3d 164, 170 (D.D.C. 2015). On February 20, 2015, the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia granted the plaintiffs’ motion for a preliminary injunction. Id. at 171.
The court found that ICE had not adopted a blanket no-release policy, but found ample support for the plaintiffs’ alternative contention that “DHS policy directs ICE officers to consider deterrence of mass migration as a factor in their custody determinations, and that this policy has played a significant role in the recent increased detention of Central American mothers and children.” Id. at 174. The court preliminarily enjoined the government from using deterrence as a factor in detaining class members. R.I.L -R v. Johnson, No. 1:15-cv-00011-JEB, Dkt. 32 (D.D.C. Feb. 20, 2015). Reference here. Ninth Circuit Appeals Court 2016 PAGES 11-12
Thus, it rings clear that when the Trump Administration decided to "punch the bear" of South American migrants with accompanying children in the nose, they should have understood that the question remained unsettled, unanswered, in our courts. This likely means this administration deliberately and unwisely chose the "strongman" approach. The Trump Administration officials did not run this new policy of parent-child separation through the courts. It was simply a matter of, "Trump wants - Make it so!" Mr. Schmidt, as we have seen countless times in less than two years of this presidency, Mr. Trump is a "impatient" and "moody" leader who nearly always opts for expediency over soundness.
This time Trump lies and speed has touched babies and children, the least of these, and the 'dust' of the resulting explosion is you, me, us, and "them" - churches outraged! Everybody who has ever imagined, heard, or experienced the cry of a child "taken," are affected by the media sounds and images on our screens these past days. Everyone, but President Donald Trump and Vice-President Mike Pence. What these men appeared to hear was music to their ears and "dutiful execution" by DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen.
So Mr. Schmidt, today, you rebelled and left your home of a lifetime in the Republican Party. I commend you. When a leader can steel his or her conscience and act to place his or her mark, fingerprints , on children who do not even understand what politics are about; on women who simply heard it whispered there is a goodly place and saw the "bright light of liberty" blazing away. . . up North; on boys and men who simply want to get far away from desperation , madness , lack , and deepening chaos; on migrants and seekers in a way which firmly indicates you are considered, "not the best," unworthy to depart from your bad-evil surroundings, - persona non gratia .  Then, Mr. Schmidt, I applaud you for moving on with your life. Where ever you stop to repair and rebuilt what you feel forced today to tear down, may you find the democracy and decency you richly value.
 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
16  Ender    6 years ago

The gop is dead. It has become the party of trump.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1  livefreeordie  replied to  Ender @16    6 years ago

I’ve been hoping for the death of the Rockefeller Marxist Statist GOP for decades. Let it be replaced with a Conservative party that upholds the Constitution of limited government and promotes individualism over Marxist statist collectivism 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
16.1.1  Ender  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1    6 years ago

You have said and compared nearly everyone to being marxist.

Must be hard having a world view where everyone that is not aligned to your ideals is marxist and must be defeated.

Then again, some love being controlled and told how to live by the elite, which they will never be a part of.

Also pinning hope on trump as the ultimate conservative probably will not end up well. Sort of the same as calling him the ultimate Christian.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.2  livefreeordie  replied to  Ender @16.1.1    6 years ago

Ive studied Marxism for over 50 years. I’m not afraid to it out wherever it exists.

redistribution of wealth, collectivism , statism are all central to Marxist ideology on transitioning from capitalism to communism

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.3  livefreeordie  replied to  Ender @16.1.1    6 years ago

I have no illusion of Trump as the ultimate conservative. He still has leftist beliefs I disagree with. But at at least he’s swinging the pendulum slightly back towards the center

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
16.1.4  Ender  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.2    6 years ago

For a long time we have had a mixture of socialism and capitalism. A balance works quite well.

Unfettered capitalism does not work. Greed needs some control.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
16.1.5  Ender  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.3    6 years ago

So, according to that statement, republicans have both chambers of congress and the presidency, we need to swing more to the center?

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
16.1.6  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Ender @16.1.4    6 years ago
For a long time we have had a mixture of socialism and capitalism

are you one of those people who thinks public works and social services are examples of socialism?

if so try again. just because the word social is in there does not make it social-ISM

here is a hint.

capitalism: is the art (work) of getting other people to pay your bills via product or service

socialism: is getting the govt to force others to pay your bills via govt controlling the production and services.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
16.1.8  Ender  replied to  The Magic 8 Ball @16.1.6    6 years ago

I would argue that we have a socialistic society where services are government run and where as a collective they are paid for.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
16.1.9  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.3    6 years ago

That's a slight pendulum swing lie on Donald Trump's part. Donald Trump is breaking this country down and attempting a remake in HIS image. Now what does that bring to mind? Those assisting him to do so are in the thralls of a strong delusion to believe a lie, my brother.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.10  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @16.1.9    6 years ago

Nonsense. He is swinging the pendulum back towards individualism and capitalism and away from totalitarian Marxist statist forced collectivism which equal enslavement to the state

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.11  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1    6 years ago
I’ve been hoping for the death of the Rockefeller Marxist Statist GOP for decades. Let it be replaced with a Conservative party that upholds the Constitution of limited government and promotes individualism over Marxist statist collectivism

Where did you get your degree in either political science or constitutional law? You apparently think that anyone who is to the left of John Galt is a communist, despite the fact that Ayn Rand depended on those leftist ideas to survive when she was diagnosed with cancer. Your heroes are myths.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.12  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.10    6 years ago
Nonsense. He is swinging the pendulum back towards individualism and capitalism and away from totalitarian Marxist statist forced collectivism which equal enslavement to the state

Nobody is enslaved by the state, so drop the hyperbole.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.13  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.11    6 years ago

My heroes in government are the founders who understood that we must put chains on government

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.14  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.12    6 years ago

Comment removed for CoC violation [ph]

there is not a legal transaction you can engage in that isn’t taxed and or regulated by government

when the income tax was passed we changed from free citizens to subjects because the State no determines what we can keep of the fruits of our labor.

125 years ago you didn’t have to ask permission from the Government to:

•    Collect rain water for your home

•    Use a transportation vehicle

•    Build a home or renovate it

•    You didn’t have to pay tax upon tax, upon tax with already taxed money including being forced to pay money that has been taxed into a government retirement system and then taxed again on that same money if you live above the poverty line

•    You didn’t have to ask permission (from the government) and pay to get married, obtain licenses, certificates or permits to fish, hunt, own a gun, become a carpenter or any other trade or profession

•    You didn’t have to ask permission to protest or redress government, or sell a product 

The government didn't pass laws and regulations saying that they not you own and control the water on your own land (put into effect by comrade Obama)

The government didn't order you to buy a commercial product under threat of penalty

The government didn't control freedom of speech 

You didn't  have your income taxed by the 16th Amendment forcibly under threat of penalty and/or imprisonment

The government didn't regulate or ban what you eat, drink, or inhale

You can virtually do “NOTHING” without being extorted by the Government and obtaining their permission first.

If you still think your “FREE” you are deluding yourself.

You live in an open air prison as free range humans who now live as subjects of the state thoroughly manipulated and controlled by the illusion of a free society.

 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
16.1.15  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.10    6 years ago

I have no issue with rugged individualism and capitalism. This country is successful (in large part) because of both of these worldviews. Immigration and asylum are another important worldviews which can not be denied as giving the United States many of its great minds and successes.

My issue with President Donald Trump is his disgusting abuse of the Rule of Law by pushing a paradigm of expediency . Trump is an authoritarian-throughout. Looking at his life, one can readily see (and he openly admits) he has never before served the needs and goals of others. As president, Trump is working a dual track of equipping himself to pull off a takeover of our Central Government - while separately making the country in his image. He alone is setting the agenda. Trump IS the agenda in his economy.  Anyone in Congress or the Courts - the other equal branches of government, who disagree with his paradigm he publicly berates, threatens, suits, strives with, or attempts an end-run around:

TRUMP: "The only one that matters is me!"

" target="_blank" title="Opens in new window." rel="noreferrer noopener"> Laurel Ingraham in an interview .

What is interesting is, you see Trump as restoring your individual   liberties, but you are blind to the fact Trump is actually making use of the Central Authority in a way that instills in him power. Congress under republican control has acquiesced to strongman tactics. Trump is the central focus of power, influence, and success for a nation of 300 million plus people. This should not be in this country of all countries! If left to his own devices, Trump's vision of America is all there will be. Other visions are dust and insignificant. Where in the world do you see such single-mindedness: Russia, North Korea, Syria, in other words, among strongmen.

Look at how Trump is doing what he does  - not just at outcomes. Be watchful and pray, brother!

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
16.1.16  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.14    6 years ago
125 years ago

You didn't have water on tap, you didn't have refrigeration, managed sewer systems kept away from water systems. But you did have legal segregation, robber barons and other capitalists who thought of their employees as expendable fodder in order to make the rich even richer.

125 years ago you didn’t have to ask permission from the Government to:

•    Collect rain water for your home (this one is silly, I agree)

•    Use a transportation vehicle (Needed to prevent unsafe vehicles from ruining transportation for everyone else)

•    Build a home or renovate it (Needed to prevent major safety violations that in the past often led to fires that burned whole communities)

•    You didn’t have to pay tax upon tax, upon tax with already taxed money including being forced to pay money that has been taxed into a government retirement system and then taxed again on that same money if you live above the poverty line (pure hyperbole)

•    You didn’t have to ask permission (from the government) and pay to get married, obtain licenses, certificates or permits to fish, hunt, own a gun, become a carpenter or any other trade or profession (If you want government benefits for being married, you have to get a license, and why would anyone want a bunch of unlicensed carpenters running around building things that could put everyone else at risk?)

•    You didn’t have to ask permission to protest or redress government, or sell a product (You don't need to ask permission to protest in general, only if you're protesting in certain places that could effect traffic or access to public spaces)

The government didn't pass laws and regulations saying that they not you own and control the water on your own land (put into effect by comrade Obama) Water doesn't just stay on your property, there is a water table that properties share and it only takes one dipshit to ruin it for everyone else without regulation.

The government didn't order you to buy a commercial product under threat of penalty (It would certainly be better to have Medicare for all than the ACA which was a compromise to keep private insurance. The penalty is an attempt to get everyone to pitch in for their health care. The emergency rooms have to treat your dumb ass regardless of your ability to pay so you don't die on the waiting room floor)

The government didn't control freedom of speech (Apparently the confederate States hated anyone who spoke out against slavery and attacked and killed many abolitionists at the time, I'd say that's pretty severe control of free speech.)

You didn't have your income taxed by the 16th Amendment forcibly under threat of penalty and/or imprisonment (True, but you also hadn't been through 2 world wars and a standing military to protect us from foreign invasion. Income taxes provide many benefits, you can get angry and live in the forest if you want, most Americas appreciate the great society we've created that made us the envy of the world.)

The government didn't regulate or ban what you eat, drink, or inhale (While I don't think any drugs should be banned, I am very thankful for the FDA and regulating food safety. 125 years ago you couldn't really trust what products you bought, there was no regulation and no accountability.)

You can virtually do “NOTHING” without being extorted by the Government and obtaining their permission first. (pure hyperbole)

If you still think your “FREE” you are deluding yourself. (If you think you're a slave you're seriously deluded)

You live in an open air prison as free range humans who now live as subjects of the state thoroughly manipulated and controlled by the illusion of a free society. (more pure hyperbole nonsense)

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
16.1.17  TᵢG  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.2    6 years ago
Ive studied Marxism for over 50 years. I’m not afraid to it out wherever it exists.

Then I expect that you understand the basics quite well.   Let's look at your claim in parts, first with redistribution of wealth:

... redistribution of wealth , collectivism , statism are all central to Marxist ideology ...

In 50 years of study you have not encountered Marx' view that redistribution of wealth is 'vulgar socialism'?    You have never read material including quotes such as this from Marx?:

Any distribution whatever of the means of consumption is only a consequence of the distribution of the conditions of production themselves. The latter distribution, however, is a feature of the mode of production itself. The capitalist mode of production, for example, rests on the fact that the material conditions of production are in the hands of nonworkers in the form of property in capital and land, while the masses are only owners of the personal condition of production, of labor power. If the elements of production are so distributed, then the present-day distribution of the means of consumption results automatically. If the material conditions of production are the co-operative property of the workers themselves, then there likewise results a distribution of the means of consumption different from the present one. Vulgar socialism (and from it in turn a section of the democrats) has taken over from the bourgeois economists the consideration and treatment of distribution as independent of the mode of production and hence the presentation of socialism as turning principally on distribution. After the real relation has long been made clear, why retrogress again?  - Marx 1875

Do you understand what Marx is saying here?   He is saying that forced redistribution of wealth is an entirely stupid idea.   He argues that a good system is one in which people have control over the means of production and the sensible benefits (means of consumption) ensue from this.   In short, he argues NO do not just take money from Peter to pay Paul - instead devise a system wherein Paul has the economic freedom to earn his own money.

Redistribution of wealth is not socialism and is anathematic to Marxist ideology.

So now let's turn to collectivism:

... redistribution of wealth, collectivism , statism are all central to Marxist ideology ...

Collectivism is central to pretty much every system on the planet.   The word 'collectivism' means:  " The practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it. "   Any society which enforces a system of laws is collectivist.   Now per Marx, collectivism is more accurately seen as public ownership of the means of production and distribution.   And in that regard Marxist ideology is profoundly collective.   My point, of course, is that collectivism is not necessary a bad thing - the trick is (like with anything else) to not go to the extreme.   So you are correct that collectivism is core to Marxism but you are incorrect to not recognize collectivism is inherent in all modern socio-economic/political systems.

Finally, we look at statism:

... redistribution of wealth, collectivism , statism are all central to Marxist ideology ...

Statism is " A political system in which the state has substantial centralized control over social and economic affairs . ".   Marx advocated the control over economic affairs to be held by the collective - by the people .   Having the state hold the power is arguably worse than having the power being held by private owners (the capitalists ... the bourgeoisie).    This is the opposite of Marxist ideology.    In Marxism the State is a temporary means of effecting ( read :  administration) shared ownership of the means of production.   Indeed, per Marx, in his idealized society the State will cease to have a useful function and fade away.     Note:  in the former USSR the State OWNED the means of production and distribution - the people (the collective) DID NOT OWN the means of production and distribution.


Bottom line, I do not think Marx is necessarily right in his views (he gets plenty of things wrong IMO), but you most certainly do not understand Marxist ideology.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
16.1.18  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.14    6 years ago
when the income tax was passed we changed from free citizens to subjects because the State no (sic) determines what we can keep of the fruits of our labor.

Income tax happened because we, in part, moved from living out on the wilderness plains into close-knit communities. Furthermore, millionaires like the Vanderbilts and other "titans of industries" were picking "winners" and "losers," living in palatial palaces with indoor "amenities, "and superfluous servants indoor and outdoor, while rank and file folks were forced to live lifestyles based on the Iron Law of Wages  and black people - poor black people all of which were stuck under every class of incoming immigrants - below the wage floor.  A gradual tax was designed to reclaim some of the money stored up in what Jesus Messiah would have called, 'barns and over-sized chests to rust and tarnish.'

J unius Henry Browne in Harper 's (1882): "Year after year New York seems to justify the painful, dispiriting averment that it is a city of paupers and millionaires.
Are not the rich growing richer and the poor poorer as time moves on? Will there ever be a period when the distance between them will be less?
Hope answers, 'Yes'; Reason answers, 'No.'"

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.20  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.13    6 years ago
My heroes in government are the founders who understood that we must put chains on government

The foremost of those chains that they created was the strict separation of church and state, that you have stated many times that you oppose.  You also oppose equal secular rights for people of different races, creeds, colors, sex, genders, ethnicity and disability, which is something else that the founders demanded.

I don't think that we in the US are overtaxed but the government is spending that tax money for an extremely bloated military and for government support of private corporations. Those policies need to end.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.21  epistte  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.19    6 years ago

Your TEAparty source is laughably biased against taxes.

 You cannot have a large modern society and not have income taxes.   Monaco survives on gambling without taxes. 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.23  epistte  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @16.1.16    6 years ago
Collect rain water for your home (this one is silly, I agree)

You do not have to ask the government to collect rainwater. The problem in that situation was that they created an uninspected impoundment on a flowing stream, which is illegal both because of structural safety reasons and the blocking of wildlife.  If you collect rainwater from your roof and store it in a separate pond, cistern or on barrels that is not a problem.

Fact checking is lost art form on the internet, despite the idea that the internet makes it laughable easy to do compared when you did it via printed material in a library 30 years ago.

It was one case of illegal rainwater collection that went viral in 2012 and resulted in much of the controversy surrounding the issue today. 64 year old Gary Harrington was sentenced to 30 years in jail after illegally collecting rainwater on his own property in Oregon.

However, Gary was not imprisoned for collecting rainwater but for collecting 20 Olympic sized pools worth of rainwater. Gary used dams up to 20 feet tall in order to collect water across 40 acres. He used these ‘man made reservoirs’ for recreational fishing and filled them with trout, boats and docks.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
16.1.24  Trout Giggles  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.22    6 years ago

Wyoming? Isn't it like near the bottom of most populated state?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.25  epistte  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.22    6 years ago
Tell that to Florida, Tennessee, Alaska, Texas, Nevada, Washington (state), and Wyoming....

The higher sales tax shifts the financial burden to the poor and middle class that spends a majority of their income, instead of on the richest citizens that can easily afford that tax.   Why do you think that conservatives support this flawed idea because the rich get richer with a state sales tax instead of an income tax. This is the same fiscal idiocy that drives a federal flat tax. 

How long are you going to continue to support supply-side economics (trickle down)policies that has shown over the past 35+ years not to work for the middle class and working poor?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.26  epistte  replied to  Trout Giggles @16.1.24    6 years ago
Wyoming? Isn't it like near the bottom of most populated state?

Texas has a very poor education system and the highest uninsured rate for children. 

Texas is the uninsured capital of the United States. More than 4.3 million Texans - including 623,000 children - lack health insurance. Texas' uninsurance rates, 1.75 times the national average, create significant problems in the financing and delivery of health care to all Texans. Those who lack insurance coverage typically enjoy far-worse health status than their insured counterparts.

s with any other region in the U.S., Texas has its share of environmental concerns that travelers should be aware of before visiting. Three of the biggest environmental problems that plague Texas are poor air and water quality as a result of pollution from oil refineries and chemical plants, as well as the effects of oil spills. If you're traveling to the Lone Star State in the near future and want to be as eco-conscious as possible, take into consideration some important waste reduction strategies and sustainability tips.

Over the past decade, Texas has experienced a stark decline in per-student state funding for public education. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities , funding from 2008 to 2015 dropped 16 percent. This shift made me, along with millions of students across the state, a victim of educational inequality. Given the state government’s increasing dependency on local governments for funding public education, it would come as no surprise if this trend continued in the coming years.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
16.1.27  GregTx  replied to  epistte @16.1.23    6 years ago

Impoundment on a flowing stream makes it sound like this guy put a dam across a creek or something. He built earthen rainwater collection containers on his property and used them as he saw fit. If that was me, after I got out of jail, the first thing I would have done is plant some 4x4's in the ground around all my ponds and build some on-the-borderline roof structures that ran off into the ponds.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
16.1.28  Trout Giggles  replied to  epistte @16.1.26    6 years ago

Things like licenses and car registrations are higher in Texas, too.

I lived there back in the 90's and tags for a 2 door car was 135 dollars/year. In Arkansas it's only about 40 bucks

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
16.1.29  Skrekk  replied to  Trout Giggles @16.1.24    6 years ago
Wyoming? Isn't it like near the bottom of most populated state?

It's one of the few states which could survive a meteor impact without significant damage to people or infrastructure.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.30  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.26    6 years ago

BULLSHIT.

Pure, unadulterated bullshit.

State High School Graduation Rates By Race, Ethnicity
www.governing.com/gov-data/.../state-high-school-graduation-rates...

49 rows · U.S. public high schools recorded a four-year graduation rate of 80 percent for the 2011-12 school year, an all-time high. Graduation rates vary greatly by state and race. Nationwide, black students graduated at a rate of 69 percent; Hispanics graduated at 73 …

Texas--tied for second among all states in overall graduation rates.

Texas--tied for first among all states in white graduation rates.

Texas--tied for second among all states in Hispanic graduation rates.

Texas--first among all states in black graduation rates.

Texas--tied for second among all states in Asian/Pacific Islander graduation rates.

Got any more lies you want to peddle?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
16.1.31  CB  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.19    6 years ago

Hi, XDm9mm! The supplied link throws a "404 error." The gradual tax i s our permanent tax put in place under the authority of the 16th amendment in 1913 :

AMENDMENT XVI

Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3 , 1913 .

Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. Reference here.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.32  epistte  replied to  GregTx @16.1.27    6 years ago
Impoundment on a flowing stream makes it sound like this guy put a dam across a creek or something. He built earthen rainwater collection containers on his property and used them as he saw fit. If that was me, after I got out of jail, the first thing I would have done is plant some 4x4's in the ground around all my ponds and build some on-the-borderline roof structures that ran off into the ponds.

His first ponds damned a stream that didn't originate on his property, so that water was not his to use. There isn't a problem with collecting the rainwater. The problem is how he stored it. 

The dams were uninspected and were a significant threat to those people downstream if they ever failed.  If he would have dug a pond with the required inspections there would not have been a problem. 

 As there are more and more humans living together and affecting the enviroment there has to be more rules to protect the enviroment from overuse and from the actions of one person harming others.  We can no longer live like it is the wild west with no rules except for our own desires.  

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
16.1.33  Skrekk  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.30    6 years ago
Texas--tied for second among all states in overall graduation rates.

Texans are smart enough to build schools and nursing homes next to fertilizer plants.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.34  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.30    6 years ago

Try again, but include the facts when you reply to me.

Since 2008, when the Great Recession led to major funding cuts to education across the country, Texas has lagged behind most states in restoring those dollars, according to a new study.

Per-student state funding in Texas in 2015, the latest education spending data available from the U.S. Census Bureau, was 16 percent lower than in 2008, when adjusted for inflation, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a Washington-based liberal think tank.

That was the sixth-biggest decline in state education spending during that period — behind Arizona, Florida, Alabama, Idaho and Georgia. Nineteen states increased funding between 2008 and 2015 by as much as 96 percent.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.36  epistte  replied to  Skrekk @16.1.29    6 years ago
It's one of the few states which could survive a meteor impact without significant damage to people or infrastructure.

You cannot destroy what doesn't exist.  Wyoming has the smallest population of any of the 50 states, with the combined population of less than many medium-sized cites. Wyoming gets tourist income from Yellowstone Park and from coal mining in the Powder River Basin, that is slowly dying.

579,315 (2017)

The metro area of Akron-Canton (Summit and Stark country) is 700,000.  Most people couldn't pick those cities out on a map.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.37  epistte  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.35    6 years ago

Colorado changed their law in 2015,

Years of acrimony over Colorado’s rooftop raindrops officially end Wednesday as a new law takes effect making it crystal clear that household rain barrels are legal.

Coloradans can store up to a total of 110 gallons of rainwater to use on their lawns and gardens in one or two rain barrels.

Though a Colorado State University water expert told a legislative committee in February that it makes no detectable difference whether water enters the ground from a downspout or eventually out of rain barrel, opponents argued about puncturing the integrity of Colorado water law that dates back to the 1850s .

In reality, however, there was never a law that specifically banned rain barrels, and legal experts told The Denver Post in March it would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove in court that a rain barrel violated any individual’s water right.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.39  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.26    6 years ago

More bullshit.

Texas air quality ranked USA.com / Ranks / U.S. Air Quality Index State Rank
U.S. Air Quality Index State Rank
A total of 51 results found. Show Results on Map.
Rank
Air Quality Index ▲
State / Population
1.
21.2
Hawaii / 1,392,704
2.
29.1
Alaska / 728,300
3.
33.5
Washington / 6,899,123
4.
36.1
Oregon / 3,900,343
5.
36.5
Maine / 1,328,535
6.
37.0
North Dakota / 704,925
6.
37.0
Nebraska / 1,855,617
8.
37.6
Iowa / 3,078,116
9.
38.3
Minnesota / 5,383,661
10.
38.5
Vermont / 626,358
11.
38.9
New Hampshire / 1,321,069
11.
38.9
Florida / 19,361,792
13.
39.5
Wisconsin / 5,724,692
14.
39.6
South Dakota / 834,708
14.
39.6
Montana / 1,006,370
16.
40.4
New York / 19,594,330
16.
40.4
Louisiana / 4,601,049
18.
41.0
Texas / 26,092,033
19.
41.4
Massachusetts / 6,657,291
20.
42.1
New Mexico / 2,080,085
20.
42.1
Nevada / 2,761,584
22.
42.5
Michigan / 9,889,024
23.
42.8
Kansas / 2,882,946
24.
43.1
Arkansas / 2,947,036
25.
43.5
Oklahoma / 3,818,851
26.
43.6
Illinois / 12,868,747
27.
43.7
Mississippi / 2,984,345
27.
43.7
Rhode Island / 1,053,252
29.
44.0
Missouri / 6,028,076
30.
44.1
New Jersey / 8,874,374
31.
44.3
Idaho / 1,599,464
32.
44.8
South Carolina / 4,727,273
33.
45.0
Virginia / 8,185,131
33.
45.0
Wyoming / 575,251
33.
45.0
Connecticut / 3,592,053
36.
45.4
Arizona / 6,561,516
37.
45.6
Pennsylvania / 12,758,729
38.
46.0
California / 38,066,920
39.
46.1
Kentucky / 4,383,272
40.
46.4
Delaware / 917,060
41.
46.5
North Carolina / 9,750,405
42.
46.6
Alabama / 4,817,678
43.
46.8
District of Columbia / 633,736
44.
47.0
Maryland / 5,887,776
45.
47.1
Colorado / 5,197,580
46.
47.5
Tennessee / 6,451,365
46.
47.5
Indiana / 6,542,411
48.
47.6
West Virginia / 1,853,881
49.
48.2
Georgia / 9,907,756
49.
48.2
Ohio / 11,560,380
51.
51.2
Utah / 2,858,111

Texas water quality--Number 38--again, not great, but ahead of liberal bastions of California and Hawaii.

WaterFinder.org - State Rank | Tap Water
www.waterdepartment.net/staterank.html

WaterFinder.org Tap Water Rankings By State. This ranking was determined by evaluating the number of contaminants found in each State and considering the number of violations of regulations by State.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.41  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.34    6 years ago

See, there you go--confusing spending with RESULTS.

That is stupid. Why spend more for crappier results--like most states do?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.43  Texan1211  replied to  Skrekk @16.1.33    6 years ago

Deleted, skirting  {SP}

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.45  epistte  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.40    6 years ago

Washington state offers incentives to collect rainwater,

Rain water collection is actually encouraged by most states, including Washington. Washington is one of the states that has incentives.  Here is the direct link to the Washington State Rainwater collection laws: Rainwater Collection in Washington State
The only state with an bans rainwater collection is Colorado.  Here is an informal list of the regulations in all 50 states.  Rainwater harvesting regulations state by state
A more formal list of the states that encourage water use can be found at the National Conference of State Legislatures. Here is the link and I have included the map below.

These are the reg's for water collecting in Utah, so its not illegal.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.46  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.34    6 years ago

If you wish to talk about SPENDING, that is a different topic--but you knew that and chose to spout off a bunch of bullshit without researching it first.

In no way does SPENDING equate with RESULTS.

Thinking JUST LIKE THAT is one reason we are so far in debt. As a country, we spend more per student than all but a handful of countries. Using your dubious logic, we should be ranked in education results based solely on spending. 

See How Much The US Spends On Education Compared To The ...
www.businessinsider.com/us-education-spending-compared-to-the-rest...

See how spending stacks up around the world. ... Most Countries Per Student, ... in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 ...

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
16.1.47  GregTx  replied to  epistte @16.1.32    6 years ago

Ahh, my apologies, I guess I need to delve deeper. When I put his name in my search engine (Bing) the only article that came up on the main page was one from HuffPo that seemed light-hearted and curiously didn't mention that he had dammed a running stream

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.48  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.41    6 years ago
That is stupid. Why spend more for crappier results--like most states do?

Try all of the facts. Texas used their federal stimulus money to fund the schools but that has dried up. The state is desperate for funding for schools.

“These trends are very concerning to the country’s future prospects,” said Leachman, the center’s director of state fiscal research. “The health of the nation’s economy, our quality of life, will depend crucially on the creativity and intellectual capacity of our people. If we neglect our schools, we diminish our future.”

To soften the blow from the 2008 recession, Texas relied on federal money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. But when the money dried up, state lawmakers enacted major funding cuts in 2011, including $5.3 billion from public education, to fill the hole. Although the state has since added money back into education, it hasn’t been enough to bring the per-student funding level back to what it was in 2008 because of inflation and the rapidly growing student population in the state.

Between fiscal years 2017 and 2018, state per-student funding in Texas dropped 1.5 percent, when adjusted for inflation, according to Leachman’s study.

With diminished state money, Texas schools have had to rely more heavily on revenue generated from local property taxes. When local tax dollars are factored in, Texas’ per-student funding level is actually 4.8 percent below the 2008 level.

“Austin and most other Central Texas school districts are in danger of crumbling under the burden of serving as a piggy bank for the state of Texas when it comes to funding education. Property taxes are simply too high, and the state’s investment is too small,” said Drew Scheberle, senior vice president for policy and advocacy at the Greater Austin Chamber of Commerce.

Because the Austin school district is considered property wealthy, it will send an estimated $534 million — nearly 50 percent of the district’s operating budget — in recapture payments to the state to help support property-poor school districts.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.49  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.38    6 years ago

Is that noise I hear crickets?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.50  epistte  replied to  GregTx @16.1.47    6 years ago

I do not ever trust HuffPo or Kos, despite the fact that I am to the left of Marx in the eyes of many on Newstalkers.  They are as untrustworthy as Fox, The American Thinker, Breitbart and Whirled Nut Daily in my eyes.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.51  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.48    6 years ago

You basically said Texas had crappy schools. Crappy schools don't graduate students at Texas' rates. Try again.

And WTF are you doing--trying to compare SPENDING with RESULTS???????????????

--"Texas has a very poor education system"--16.1.26 YOUR words.

Now you want to pretend you didn't mean "crappy education system"--just crappy funding? ISs THAT what you are trying desperately to say after getting called out on your bullshit?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.52  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.48    6 years ago

Are you saying only spending is a factor in quality education?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.54  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.52    6 years ago

Apparently your graduation rates are not what you think that they are, 

The Graduation Crisis in Texas
October 2006
Editorial Projects in Education Research Center
1
Over 120,000 Students in Texas Failed to Graduate in 2006, Most were Minorities
Analyses from the Editorial Projects in Education R
esearch Center estimate that over 120,000 public hi
gh school students in the state
of Texas failed to graduate with a regular diploma
last school year. To put this crisis in perspectiv
e, the number of non-graduates is
about double the combined number of students enteri
ng 9th grade in the state’s seven largest school di
stricts. Seventy percent of all
non-graduates were members of minority racial and e
thnic groups, indicating that minority students are
disproportionately affected by
this graduation crisis.
Graduation rates for the 2002-03 school year show t
hat only about two-thirds of all public school stud
ents in Texas complete high
school with a standard diploma. Texas falls below
the national graduation rate of 69.6 percent and ra
nks 35th among the states.
Analyses reveal large disparities in high school co
mpletion across different student groups. Fewer th
an 60 percent of black and
Hispanic students graduate with a diploma, compared
to over three quarters of whites and Asians. Stati
stics were calculated by the
EPE Research Center using a method known as the Cum
ulative Promotion Index (CPI).
Male students are also consistently less likely to
graduate, with female students enjoying a graduatio
n advantage of over 8 percentage
points. Gender gaps exist for all racial and ethnic
categories, with the largest difference (13 percen
tage points) found among black
students. Hispanic males are the lowest-performing
group, graduating at a rate of less than 53 percent
.
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.56  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.54    6 years ago

Use something a little more current.

Public High School Graduation Rates - National Center for ...
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coi.asp

... as measured by the adjusted cohort graduation rate (ACGR). State education ... graduation rate (ACGR) for public high school ... 2017): Public high school 4 ...
Status Dropout Rates · Reading Performance

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.57  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.54    6 years ago

I believe you had to HUNT for SOMETHING to back up an ignorant claim, and looked until you could find an OLD chart. Can you at LEAST get something for THIS decade????

Talk about not posting facts...………………………….oops, sorry, posting irrelevant facts, and way outdated--as you already knew.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.58  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.55    6 years ago

You know it is just grasping at straws when someone pulls a disingenuous stunt like that. Like no one was going to notice if outdated information was posted in an attempt to "prove" something.

SMDH

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.61  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.60    6 years ago

Figures.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
16.1.62  GregTx  replied to  epistte @16.1.48    6 years ago

Do you think that perhaps the lack of adequate funding might somehow be related to the rather large influx of families from other states? Of which a relatively large number are from states with a state income tax, based on my personal observations.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.63  epistte  replied to  GregTx @16.1.62    6 years ago

Texas is toward the very bottom for public school funding per pupil.  I hope that Texan2011 notes that these figures are from 2016.

Ohio had a public school funding problem before Kasich came to office in 2011 and he has made the problem worse with his tax cuts and then the charter school fiasco. Despite that fact, Ohio spends more than Texas. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.64  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.63    6 years ago

Doesn't matter what is spent, what matters is HOW it is spent.

Jeeze, I already proved that to you, why are you attempting to rehash an argument you already lost?

Perhaps you could explain how Texas has higher graduation rates than liberal bastion California?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.65  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.63    6 years ago

Oh, and kudos for at least using a current source instead of hunting for one that might serve your purpose.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.67  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.64    6 years ago
Jeeze, I already proved that to you, why are you attempting to rehash an argument you already lost?

The graduation for non-whites and disabled students is in Texas is nothing to be proud of. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.68  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.67    6 years ago

Read my link or freaking look it up for yourself, and get back to me when you see where Texas ranks. Please use a current source, not one from more than a decade ago.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.69  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.68    6 years ago

This is from the 2014-15 school year,

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.70  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.69    6 years ago

That is too freaking funny!

That is where I got MY numbers, And I looked at what you wished to claim about Texas graduation rates for the poor and disabled, and boy, did you ever prove me right.

The following taken directly from YOUR source

US High school graduation rate is 83.2%. Texas is at 89%, or 5.8% higher than average

Low income US  rate 76.1%, Texas 85.6, or 9.5% higher than average.

Disabled rate US 64.6%, Texas 78.2%, or 13.6% higher than average.

Please stop embarrassing yourself like this.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.71  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.69    6 years ago

Tell the truth. Did you even bother to read your own source, or did you just assume it would prove you right because of your bias?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.72  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.69    6 years ago

How about we compare your state and Texas? You game?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.73  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.72    6 years ago
How about we compare your state and Texas? You game?

Ohio public schools are a joke. 

16.1.63

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.74  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.73    6 years ago

Taken time to read your source yet?

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.75  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.54    6 years ago

Perhaps you need to look wider when you criticize

California’s 80.4 percent graduation rate  is in the ballpark of the national average of 81.4 percent based on 2012-2013 numbers, the latest countrywide numbers issued by education officials. The state's graduation rate ranked it as 31st among the states and the District of Columbia.

The numbers also showed persistent gaps between graduation rates for white and Asian students and those for African-American and Hispanic students.

In California, white students recorded an 87.7 graduation rate, up about 1 percent from the previous year. Asian students had a 91.6 graduation rate, up .5 percent; African American students, 68.1 percent, up 5.3 percent; and Hispanic students, 75.7 percent, up 2 percent.

California's graduation rate for Hispanic students ranks better than Nevada, Arizona, and New York. But Texas stood out as a lone star. Among the nation’s biggest states, it did the best graduating Hispanic students at 85.1 percent, about 10 percent better than California.

Texas also did better than California in graduating black students — 84.1 percent of African American students in Texas graduated.

Overall, Texas ranked higher than California and substantially higher in the graduation rates for Blacks and Hispanics than California

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.76  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.20    6 years ago

The foremost of those chains that they created was the strict separation of church and state, that you have stated many times that you oppose.  You also oppose equal secular rights for people of different races, creeds, colors, sex, genders, ethnicity and disability, which is something else that the founders demanded.

Wrong- I have NEVER advocated for combining church and state nor have I advocated unequal secular rights based upon any of the other things you cited.  (  Deleted,  skirting  {SP} )

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.77  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.20    6 years ago

Duplicate comment removed

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.78  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.76    6 years ago
Wrong- I have NEVER advocated for combining church and state nor have I advocated unequal secular rights based upon any of the other things you cited.

You have supported the idea that the state enforces religious ideas such as the ban on LGBT equal rights and abortion.  

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.79  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.78    6 years ago

I don't support special rights for behavior.  But I don't agree with denying people with poor moral discipline like those engaged in homosexual behavior or suffering from mental confusion over their gender the right to the pursuit of happiness in careers or property.

I don't support government having any involvement in marriage or divorce including redefining marriage.  that is not the role of government.

I oppose abortion but I don't advocate for laws against abortion.  I do consider abortion murder.  But until mothers realize they are murdering their child and as long as the state supports that form of murder, it will continue no matter what laws are in place.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.80  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @16.1.15    6 years ago

Deleted, sweeping generalization  {SP}

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.81  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.79    6 years ago
But I don't agree with denying people with poor moral discipline like those engaged in homosexual behavior or suffering from mental confusion over their gender the right to the pursuit of happiness in careers or property.

Equal rights for all people is not special rights unless LGBT people have secular rights that you do not enjoy.  Trans people are not confused about their gender, despite your claims.

I don't support government having any involvement in marriage or divorce including redefining marriage.  that is not the role of government.

The government has always been involved in marriage in the US because there are secular rights involved with it as part of its social construct.  You are just trying to find a new way to deny LGBT people the right to marry, just as 1950s bigots did to people who wanted to marry someone of a different race. 

Prior to the 18th Century, marriages in the United States remained the primary responsibility of local churches. After a church-issued marriage license was signed by an officiant, it was registered with the state. By the late 19th century, the various states started to nix common-law marriages. Finally, the states decided to exert considerable control over who would be allowed to marry within the state’s borders. As stated earlier,the government sought control of marriage licenses to compile vital statistics information. Further, the issuance of the licenses provided a consistent revenue stream.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
16.1.82  Trout Giggles  replied to  XDm9mm @16.1.42    6 years ago

Oh we have the personal property tax, too

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
16.1.83  Phoenyx13  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.79    6 years ago

I don't support special rights for behavior. 

you don't support " special rights " for the religious (since their rights are based upon behavior) ? Can we do away with tax exempt statuses for churches since it's based upon the behavior of religion or is that a " special right " you'd like to keep ?

But I don't agree with denying people with poor moral discipline like those engaged in homosexual behavior or suffering from mental confusion over their gender the right to the pursuit of happiness in careers or property.

how every condescending of you ! i'm sure this must make you feel very privileged and powerful to refer to homosexuals as " people with poor moral discipline " and refer to transgender individuals as " suffering from mental confusion over their gender ", unfortunately for you - neither description is true but if you need to keep saying phrases like that to make yourself feel superior - please go ahead :)

I don't support government having any involvement in marriage or divorce including redefining marriage.  that is not the role of government.

what ? what an odd statement ... marriage always involves property doesn't it ? isn't this your comment ?:

Government’s purpose is to protect property.

from: 

looks like you are not being honest with everyone.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.85  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.73    6 years ago

Gee, how is that even possible in Liberal La-La Land? Ohio outspends Texas, and using your logic, MUST have better schools.

Or do you want to change your argument form us talking about graduation rates to spending, as you have attempted to do multiple times on here--only to get caught in falsehood after falsehood?

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.86  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.81    6 years ago

Wrong, the reason why the government got involved with marriage licenses was racism. it was designed to prevent interracial marriage.

There remains NO legitimate reason for the government to be involved in marriage or divorce.

Both my paternal and maternal grandparents has no marriage license because none was required when they married.

Marriage licensing is just another excuse for government to control the private affairs of people. 

Only totalitarians find this acceptable.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.87  livefreeordie  replied to  Phoenyx13 @16.1.83    6 years ago

ALL non profits, not just churches enjoy the same tax exemptions.

In point of fact, I know from personal experience that if you do away with the tax exemptions it will change nothing for 99% of churches and ministries in the US.  Subject them to the same rules as any business and they will most often show a loss, not a profit for the year.

So go ahead, it will change nothing.

BTW the reason they are exempt is to separate ourselves from Europe where many churches receive subsidies from the Government and there are official religions of the state as in Germany, England, Denmark, Italy

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.88  livefreeordie  replied to  Phoenyx13 @16.1.83    6 years ago

calling these people what they are has nothing to do with moral superiority.  That's just atheist speak for looking down on morality.

As to property, you ignore that I stated the definition of property begins with you as a person, your creative ideas, your labor, and finally business and lands.

Acquiring property is not the primary purpose of marriage.  For those of us who are serving God, marriage is about several important principals

1. It is a bonding covenant which helps understand covenant with God

2.  It allows us a way to satisfy physical desires without engaging in fornication

3.  It acknowledges the Biblical principal that two are better than one because if one falls, the other is there to pick them up.

4.  We learn how to love even as Christ loves.

Certainly as an atheist you will disagree with most of this. But Jesus who is God, is the one who created marriage.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
16.1.89  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.80    6 years ago

President Donald J. Trump is a flagrant liar. It has been established and confirmed. He is lying and deluding himself into a notion that poor, fleeing asylum seekers are 'invading hordes' coming to take this nation (which belongs to God) away from us. "The Earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof."

Livefreeordie, Pastor, let me ask you a question: Will you sweep away the righteous immigrants along with the wicked at our southern border? If there are ten righteous migrants at our southern border, will you speak up in support of them?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
16.1.90  Phoenyx13  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.87    6 years ago

ALL non profits, not just churches enjoy the same tax exemptions.

In point of fact, I know from personal experience that if you do away with the tax exemptions it will change nothing for 99% of churches and ministries in the US.  Subject them to the same rules as any business and they will most often show a loss, not a profit for the year.

So go ahead, it will change nothing.

BTW the reason they are exempt is to separate ourselves from Europe where many churches receive subsidies from the Government and there are official religions of the state as in Germany, England, Denmark, Italy

Ok, does this line of thought extend to religious exemptions in laws since those are "special privileges" based upon behavior as well ?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
16.1.91  Trout Giggles  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.88    6 years ago
That's just atheist speak for looking down on morality.

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of you telling atheists and non-believers that we're immoral. That's insulting

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
16.1.92  Phoenyx13  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.88    6 years ago

calling these people what they are has nothing to do with moral superiority.  That's just atheist speak for looking down on morality.

it absolutely does since the only reason you would do it is to feel "morally superior" to those you feel are "sinning". Excusing yourself of that reasoning and responsibility for your words/actions in this case won't work, nor can you blame your God for your line of thought either.

As to property, you ignore that I stated the definition of property begins with you as a person, your creative ideas, your labor, and finally business and lands.

yes, and you as a person - merge with another person and your labor potentially doubles including the fruits of such labor and acquiring land together etc - so it is relevant.

Acquiring property is not the primary purpose of marriage. 

completely irrelevant, i'm not asking you for your opinion on the primary purpose of marriage.

For those of us who are serving God, marriage is about several important principals

1. It is a bonding covenant which helps understand covenant with God

2.  It allows us a way to satisfy physical desires without engaging in fornication

3.  It acknowledges the Biblical principal that two are better than one because if one falls, the other is there to pick them up.

4.  We learn how to love even as Christ loves.

Certainly as an atheist you will disagree with most of this. But Jesus who is God, is the one who created marriage.

i'm not an atheist - try again. Regardless, you did a very nice dance and still didn't answer the question:

marriage always involves property. doesn't it ?

and as we established - this is true which tells everyone you are not being honest with everyone. Doesn't matter what you "think" the purpose of marriage is or who you "think" created marriage - what matters is that marriage involves property and yet.. you hypocritically claim to want government out of marriage after stating the government's primary purpose is to protect property. I thought honesty was valued by the religious ?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
16.1.93  Phoenyx13  replied to  Trout Giggles @16.1.91    6 years ago
I'm getting pretty sick and tired of you telling atheists and non-believers that we're immoral. That's insulting

well gee, i'm not sure why, the religious will claim they are only stating that out of "love" for all of the non-believing immoral heathens. I can't believe you don't feel more "loved" at the moment !

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.94  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.86    6 years ago

Wrong, the reason why the government got involved with marriage licenses was racism. it was designed to prevent interracial marriage.

There remains NO legitimate reason for the government to be involved in marriage or divorce.

Both my paternal and maternal grandparents has no marriage license because none was required when they married.

Marriage licensing is just another excuse for government to control the private affairs of people. 

Only totalitarians find this acceptable.

Conservatives lost in the courts when they overruled your DOMA laws as being unconstitutional so now you are trying to change the rules with revisionist history as a last-ditch attempt to prevent LGBT people from having equal marriage rights.  What happened to your claim that you support equal rights, or is that just rights for people like you? How has your life or anyone else's been negatively affected by LGBT marriage equality?  Even if you did get your way there are more and more churches that will marry LGBT people, so do you plan to prevent them from doing so?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.95  epistte  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.85    6 years ago
Gee, how is that even possible in Liberal La-La Land? Ohio outspends Texas, and using your logic, MUST have better schools.

Ohio is not liberal, especially under John Kasich. At best this state is purple and that was 10 years ago.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.96  Texan1211  replied to  epistte @16.1.95    6 years ago

But they SPEND more, and I know what a big freaking deal that is to you.

You would rather spend more and get shitty results than to ever spend less and get better results.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
16.1.97  Ender  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.96    6 years ago

I will kind of agree with you. I don't mind spending on schools, it is where the money goes.

We have superintendents that make well over 100k a year. I would be happy getting rid of some of the bureaucrats and giving teachers a raise, if not hiring more teachers and making smaller classes.

It is not as much for me the amount a district receives in funding (actually it kinda is, schools don't need to be cut) it is how the funding is used.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.98  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @16.1.97    6 years ago

She was just bitching about how much Texas spends, and I pointed out Texas graduation rates, which stack up against anywhere in the country quite well.

Hell, if money was all it took, we would be ranked far better in the world since we send so much.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
16.1.99  Ender  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.98    6 years ago

 I was reading along. I agree with her about Ohio. The one thing I would say about Texas, is a large state like that would have to spend a lot more. I think it would break down to about money spent to the amount of children. There is a formula some where.

My state actually has been doing pretty good, considering we are usually last on everything.

mississippigraduationrate.jpg

Link

Still 1% shy of the national average.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
16.1.100  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @16.1.99    6 years ago

At least y'all are improving!

These things take time. and many people fail to consider what type of people are being educated.

Are they from a one parent home? Do they have anyone who cares about them at home? Is English their first language?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
16.1.101  Ender  replied to  Texan1211 @16.1.100    6 years ago

True. I have seen families that don't give a crap about their kids. Sad really.

I will say that most kids around here from different cultures or countries are bilingual. They can speak perfect English then turn right around and speak perfectly in their parents native tongue. That includes our Vietnamese population.

I have also seen that fade over generations. Which is kind of sad. I think we should promote learning a second language.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
16.1.102  Raven Wing  replied to  Ender @16.1.101    6 years ago
I think we should promote learning a second language.

Agreed. And the second language should be a language that is prominent in the area where they live so that they can converse with other who also speak that language. There is little use to learn a language that one will likely never use outside of the classroom. 

I speak some Spanish, some German, a bit of French, some Italian, some Japanese, and Cherokee. However, living in So Calif there are many different communities where these various languages are spoken, especially, Spanish, so they are useful. But, If I lived in an area where none of the languages I learned were spoken they would be useless to me. 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.103  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @16.1.89    6 years ago

I support all legal immigration.  I will never support breaking the law to illegally enter our country

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.104  livefreeordie  replied to  Trout Giggles @16.1.91    6 years ago

Not my standard, it's God's.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.105  livefreeordie  replied to  Phoenyx13 @16.1.92    6 years ago

Again, no it doesn't always involve property.  I abandoned owning property a decade ago to serve God. I gave up all investments in the market 19 years ago in my service for God.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.106  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.94    6 years ago

There's no revisionism except from you on the left who love totalitarian government that controls even relationships by licensing.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.107  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.94    6 years ago

marriage is not a right.  Nor should it ever be considered one, no matter how many leftist courts create a unconstitutional decision saying so.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
16.1.108  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.103    6 years ago

You failed to consider the comment and answer the question. Please, answer the question:

Livefreeordie, Pastor, let me ask you a question: Will you sweep away the righteous immigrants along with the wicked at our southern border? If there are tenrighteous migrants at our southern border, will you speak up in support of them?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
16.1.109  Phoenyx13  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.105    6 years ago
Again, no it doesn't always involve property.  I abandoned owning property a decade ago to serve God. I gave up all investments in the market 19 years ago in my service for God.

again, it does involve property. Where do you live ? house ? apartment ? that's property. Do you own a car or tv (etc) ? did you buy anything together with your spouse or while Married to your spouse ? more property. (yes there are exceptions, including prenuptial agreements - that should make you wonder why those are necessary) I would highly suggest researching Marriage a bit further and understanding it's a contract. Whether or not you believe it's from your God is your decision, but since Marriage does involve property - you (by your own words as i pointed out earlier) fully endorse the government being involved in Marriage.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.110  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.106    6 years ago
There's no revisionism except from you on the left who love totalitarian government that controls even relationships by licensing.

Therer are many secular rights that are part of marriage so the government must have a record. The government does not control who is marrying each other, other then both partners being consenting adults. Would you prefer that adults are able to marry children that do not wish to be married to them?  

Nobody says that you cannot just live with someone in a common law marriage. If you cannot afford the $90.00 for a marriage license you have bigger problems than the license. 

I'd like to answer your next reply in this same response, if you don't mind?

Why shouldn't marriage be a secular civil right in the US?  Who do you think should decide who can get married?  You claim that you are not a statist or a totalitarian and that you support religious rights for all people, so why do you desire to deny others the right to marry who they choose, as long as both people are consenting adults?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.111  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.107    6 years ago
Nor should it ever be considered one, no matter how many leftist courts create a unconstitutional decision saying so.

The Supreme Court of the US has affirmed this idea many times, so your opinions don't mean bupkis. I thought that you supported individual freedom, but apparently that is not true in practice, despite your vociferous claims.   How does it negatively affect you if two people get married?

What do you believe should be the limiting factor for who can get married?   Do you understand the difference between secular marriage and religious matrimony?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
16.1.112  Trout Giggles  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.104    6 years ago

Now that's proselyting and if the mods can't see that....

It's your standard for calling non-Christians and non-believers immoral and it's insulting. I see more moral non-Christians and non-believers than you on this website

Not only is ti proselyting it is also derogatory, rude, taunting, and bullying

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.113  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.110    6 years ago

There is no moral, ethical, or constitutional reason for the state to license marriage. It’s about government control.  No amount of twisting rationalizations can change that fact

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.114  livefreeordie  replied to  Phoenyx13 @16.1.109    6 years ago

You misstate the role of government.  The purpose of government is to prevent the theft or destruction of property by individuals orgovernment. It’s not about government approving of or taxing our property

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.115  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @16.1.111    6 years ago

So now you believe that the courts are always right in their decisions. The Supreme Court has issued a lot of opinions that the have no constitutional basis nor the authority to make

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
16.1.116  livefreeordie  replied to  Trout Giggles @16.1.112    6 years ago

Utter poppycock. There are no proselytizing statements in my posts. Nowhere have I asked someone to become a Christian

you and others are fond of making that straw man accusation 

 
 
 
Fireryone
Freshman Silent
16.1.117  Fireryone  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.107    6 years ago

How can you say that marriage isn't a right when it has been declared a right by the SCOTUS?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.118  epistte  replied to  Fireryone @16.1.117    6 years ago
How can you say that marriage isn't a right when it has been declared a right by the SCOTUS?

Apparently, Larry wants all SCOTUS decisions filtered through his far-right intrepreation of the King James Bible. 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.119  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.115    6 years ago
So now you believe that the courts are always right in their decisions. The Supreme Court has issued a lot of opinions that the have no constitutional basis nor the authority to make

There are many decisions that I disagree with but the SCOTUS had the right to make those decisions, even if they get it wrong. Kelo, Citizens United, Bush v. Gore, Korematsu, Heller, and Hobby Lobby are but a few of the decisions that I disagree with. 

What SCOTUS decisions do you believe are outside the spectrum of the US judicial system to make?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
16.1.120  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.113    6 years ago
There is no moral, ethical, or constitutional reason for the state to license marriage. It’s about government control.

That is nonsense. As long as marriage has secular civil rights attached to it then the state must be part of the process to record it. There is absolutely no historical evidence that marriage is an act only between religious people. If marriage was only a religious action then there could not be additional civil rights awarded to those who take part.  The religious corollary to civil marriage is the sacrament of matrimony and the state has no say in that action because of the separation of church and state.

 Religious conservatives lost in the Obergefell decision, so now you are trying to change the rules so you can deny other people their equal marriage rights.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
16.1.121  author  JohnRussell  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.114    6 years ago

Libertarians always exactly describe the role of government. It is weird. They are for freedom as long as it benefits them. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
16.1.122  sandy-2021492  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.107    6 years ago
marriage is not a right.  Nor should it ever be considered one, no matter how many leftist courts create a unconstitutional decision saying so.

So, it's not a right, but government shouldn't be controlling it?

Ok.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
16.1.123  Phoenyx13  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.114    6 years ago
The purpose of government is to prevent the theft or destruction of property by individuals orgovernment. It’s not about government approving of or taxing our property

again - Marriage involves property, including prevention of theft of property or destruction of said property especially during divorce proceedings or ending the Marriage contract. So, once again we have established:

Whether or not you believe it's from your God is your decision, but since Marriage does involve property - you (by your own words as i pointed out earlierfully endorse the government being involved in Marriage.

any other questions ?

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
16.1.124  Phoenyx13  replied to  livefreeordie @16.1.113    6 years ago
There is no moral, ethical, or constitutional reason for the state to license marriage

incorrect - as you and i have established - Marriage involves property, including prevention of theft and/or destruction of said property especially when ending the Marriage contract, so once again:

Whether or not you believe it's from your God is your decision, but since Marriage does involve property - you (by your own words as i pointed out earlierfully endorse the government being involved in Marriage.

any other questions ?

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
17  sixpick    6 years ago

Any time the goal is to convince people they are a victims of a society or there are unseen forces out there which are dedicated to keep certain groups of people down, their probabilities of being a success in life are crushed.  This has been the mantra of the Liberals for decades and it has been successful in convincing most of these people they don't have a chance in hell of succeeding in life. 

The bad thing about it is most Liberal policies have all been pushed with good intentions, but they are completely ignorant as to the reasons for the results they've achieved and continue to push the same mantra.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
17.1  CB  replied to  sixpick @17    6 years ago

This is so off-topic. (Sigh!) Is there some larger point to do with immigration, separation of women and children, or just being plain merciless to 'broken' men, women, and children?!!

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
17.1.1  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @17.1    6 years ago

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
17.1.2  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @17.1    6 years ago

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
17.1.3  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @17.1.1    6 years ago

I agree. Illegal immigration is wrong. I do not encourage anyone to do anything illegal. But, this is not about illegal immigration is it. Mr. Schmidt is not leaving the Republican Party because he favors illegal immigration or as you fondly label it: "Open borders."

I do not accept officials who "sat in the gate" of our southern border should demonstrate impropriety to seekers leaving behind assault, violence, gangs, and harm. Never in my name.

Pastor, Is asylum seeking illegal? Is it hospitable to alter the asylum rules to forbid entry at our southern border to righteous men, women, and children? Is it Christlike to 'move' and 'hide' the gate opening (through deceptive practices) from strangers at our southern borders - thus, making them into so-called, 'criminals'? 

Lastly, could some of these strangers be "messengers sent from God" mixed in among the asylum seekers at our southern border? Will this great nation pass or fail its test of hospitality??

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
17.1.4  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @17.1.3    6 years ago

NONE of these people are asylum seekers.

Mexico is required to give asylum yet not one has sought it in Mexico

the US has an embassy in Mexico city and 9 Consulates. including every major Mexican city along our border. Yet none of these people sought asylum at any of these locations.

These people did not come to our border crossings and ask for asylum. They were caught in illegal crossings into the US and THEN asked for asylum.  

According to Border agents, many have scripts given to them telling them what to say after they are caught.

MOST of the children we are detaining (80%) are unaccompanied, meaning they came on their own or with an adult who was not a parent or relative (like drug smugglers and sex traffickers)

Therefore this is NOT ABOUT ASYLUM

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
17.1.5  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @17.1.3    6 years ago

We have not "moved" our border crossing points.  Where did you get such a notion.  

We are extending hospitable treatment to people who deserve to be treated as criminals. Treatment better than most have ever received, especially the children.

Neither US nor International law allows for asylum from gang violence.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
17.1.6  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @17.1.4    6 years ago
NONE of these people are asylum seekers.

NONE of these people are asylum seekers, Pastor? 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
17.1.7  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @17.1.5    6 years ago

On bridge over Rio Grande, asylum seekers wait for chance to enter US

By Neena Satija and Juan Luis García Hernández / June 20, 2018

MATAMOROS, Mexico – On Sunday and Monday night, 22-year-old Marcos Samayoa slept on pieces of old cardboard on a concrete sidewalk.

He was perched above the Rio Grande, surrounded by a small pack of strangers on the international bridge that connects this Mexican border city to Brownsville, Texas, with his dusty green backpack and an old pair of sneakers. A few yards away, on the Texas side of the line, three U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents watched.  It had been a long journey from Samayoa’s hometown of Mazatenango in southwest Guatemala. And now he was just short of that line on the bridge, where the agents had stopped him.

They told him to wait; he didn’t know for how long. So he did. Because his wife and four children had successfully crossed that line sometime earlier and he needed to find them. Samayoa said Tuesday that he didn’t know where they were, only that they had been separated after they surrendered to American agents. Samayoa was one of about 15 people who camped out all day Tuesday on the bridge — a major border crossing on the southern tip of Texas. Most had been there for at least two nights; one family of three, two brothers and their aunt from Honduras, had arrived Saturday. Children as young as 3 slept on the cardboard sheets, clutching pink teddy bears that a frequent crosser had bought for everyone and distributed in passing.

Marcos Samayoa, who traveled from Guatemala to the U.S-Mexico border, waits on the international bridge to seek asylum in the United States.
Credit: Reynaldo Leal for The Texas Tribune

Last week, U.S. Attorney Jeff Sessions ruled that the federal government would no longer grant asylum to immigrants who claimed to be fleeing gang or domestic violence. And those who are allowed to cross the international boundary and request asylum are being separated from their children and sent to detention centers under a recently implemented zero-tolerance policy that has ignited fierce national blowback.

This story was produced by
The Texas Tribune

Samayoa said he’s one of the asylum seekers fleeing violence in his home country. Back in Guatemala, he said he had a small business selling ceviche, a popular dish made with raw fish. Gangs would extort him for money, Samayoa said, and he had received death threats. If he could just wait it out here on the sidewalk, watching tourists and workers stream by, maybe he could eventually enter, apply for asylum and be reunited with his family. “I feel safer here than in Guatemala,” Samayoa told The Texas Tribune in Spanish. “Here, nobody is after me, nobody’s looking for me. Here, I can be a little bit calm.”

Jenifer Figueroa was waiting, too, with her 3-year-old son, Angel Bonilla. A few weeks ago, she said, three men knocked on the door of their house in the port city of La Ceiba, Honduras, and said she would have to sell drugs for them or they’d kill her son. Figueroa said she left that night, paying a “coyote” – a professional people smuggler – to take her to Matamoros.   She didn’t expect to be stopped halfway across the bridge. But she said she felt confident that the agents eventually would allow her and her son to enter the U.S. For now, all she can do is sit on the bridge and wait while Angel, who was developing a cough, slept as peacefully as he could by her side.

The agents posted on the bridge and those in the processing center on the Brownsville side declined to answer questions about the drama playing out in the center of the bridge.

Immigrant advocates have complained for at least a year about Customs and Border Protection agents turning asylum seekers away at U.S. ports of entry. Last July, a group of immigration lawyers and advocates sued then-Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly and other officials, claiming that officers were illegally turning away people seeking asylum at California border crossings using “misrepresentations, threats and intimidation, verbal abuse and physical force, and coercion.”

As the zero-tolerance policy has taken hold this month, the protests are coming from all sides of the political spectrum.

In a letter Tuesday to President Donald Trump,  Texas House Speaker Joe Straus, a San Antonio Republican , called for an end to that policy, saying it is “worsening the many problems that already plague our immigration system, and it is important to recognize the critical difference between those who come to our country seeking asylum from very dangerous situations in their home countries, and those who enter the United States as part of a criminal network or in order to harm our citizens.

“Please listen to the growing number of Americans, faith leaders and elected officials from both parties who are voicing our concerns about this growing crisis,” Straus wrote.

Back on the bridge, . . . . The agents maintained their vigil a few feet on the U.S. side of the bridge, asking people for their documents before letting them pass.  MORE

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
17.1.8  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @17.1.5    6 years ago
 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
17.1.9  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @17.1.8    6 years ago

Nonsense. I’ll repeat none of these people asked Mexico for Asylum

none of these people asked for asylum at a US consulate or the US embassy

its simply not true

furthermore gang threats are not recognized under international law as a legitimate reason for asylum

using your logic the entire world should have the right to flood into our country and bankrupt it.  Using your logic, the US would cease to exist

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
17.1.10  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @17.1.9    6 years ago

See 14.2  Mexico deports record numbers of women and children in US-driven effort

Tens of thousands fleeing violence and poverty deported to Central America after pressure from the US to prevent migrants reaching American border. (Article dated: 2015)


It is not for me to interest myself with the 'how-comes" of these people standing on our 'threshold.' You can check out my comment # 14. 2 highlights, and observe there is a link in it to the full article for further insight. It is not our job to comprehensively solve complex issues on comment boards! Basically, we simply make our case on a matter and move on.

  1.  Immigrants, fleeing violence and death, may not fair any better in Mexico - especially since the 'rumor' of deportation still is likely prevalent.  That could be a reason to avoid turning oneself over to Mexican officials.
  2.  I'll leave it up to government officials and amnesty requesters to decide who gets into the country following amnesty law and policies

The primary concern for me in this article is decency, dignity, and good moral treatment of migrant parents and their children. And Pastor, those kids were not separated and put into cages before they landed in the United States, that is, as far as I know.

Lastly, I have made my points and Trump has 'answered' with an executive order.

 
 
 
freepress
Freshman Silent
18  freepress    6 years ago

Amen and Hallelujah. There are so many Republicans that are finally seeing the light.

I never, ever, ever in a million years thought I would side with several prominent Republicans, ever.

But the time has come to choose America over party lines and American over a selfish billionaire trying to set himself up as a dictator.

Trump recently posed the notion of gutting the U.S. Constitution so he can just do what he wants and people are failing to see that Trump wants to be Hitler, I think he is delusional enough to think he is the rising of the Third Reich and far right extremists are cheering him on.

The comparisons to Germany in WWII are not off base, they are exact.

Trump should be immediately impeached for his threat to dismantle the U. S. Constitution, no exceptions.

His oath of office was to protect the Constitution, not to publicly oppose the Constitution or propose dismantling it.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
18.1  CB  replied to  freepress @18    6 years ago
Trump should be immediately impeached for his threat to dismantle the U. S. Constitution, no exceptions.

If President Trump keeps it up - I wholeheartedly agree. This "wild-ass" of a president is probing the depths of the Constitution in order to *crack* its foundation!

 
 
 
livefreeordie
Junior Silent
18.1.1  livefreeordie  replied to  CB @18.1    6 years ago

Nonsense. We have been suffering under 80 plus years of usurpation of the Constitution by FDR Marxist fascists

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
18.1.2  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @18.1.1    6 years ago
Nonsense. We have been suffering under 80 plus years of usurpation of the Constitution by FDR Marxist fascists

You cannot logically be both a Marxist and a fascist because they are on the opposite ends of the political spectrum, so drop the hyperbole.

FDR was not a Marxist.

 
 
 
Fireryone
Freshman Silent
18.1.3  Fireryone  replied to  livefreeordie @18.1.1    6 years ago

That is nonsense. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
18.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  epistte @18.1.2    6 years ago

Some people toss out emotive labels regardless of the actual meaning (or lack thereof).    'Marxist fascist' sounds like a really bad thing so, hell, just toss out the label when you want to designate an individual as 'bad'.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
18.1.5  epistte  replied to  TᵢG @18.1.4    6 years ago
'Marxist fascist' sounds like a really bad thing so, hell, just toss out the label when you want to designate an individual as 'bad'.

Randomly tossing out the terms Marxist, fascist, statist, communist and totalitarian is the political pejorative equivalent of calling someone an a'hole, jackass or a mutherfckr. The people who do it do not understand that all of those terms have well-defined meanings.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
18.1.6  CB  replied to  livefreeordie @18.1.1    6 years ago

Care to share a short-version of your 'complaints,' Pastor? If you mean we are no longer an infantile country living in the mindset of the 18th century—do you really relish such a way of life as before your time, or do you bemoan the lack of modernizing the constitution through congressional or vote means?

In any case, this country was required to GROW UP and mature. Nothing on this planet is permitted to stay in its "new' crispy stage forever.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Participates
19  Paula Bartholomew    6 years ago

Most little boys want to grow up to be cops, cowboys, or astronauts but Trump wanted to be Willie Stark (All The King's Men) and is. 

 
 

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