Are the Brownshirts Coming? ... ... by Bob Nelson
We're seeing an obvious effort by the right-wing to create hysteria about "left-wing violence" that does not actually exist.
Political violence in America has always been from the right, from the days of the KKK lynching "uppity niggers" and the Pinkertons gunning down union organizers, right up to today with the recent murder of Heather Heyer in Charlottesville, there is an unbroken line of racist and fascist violence - deadly violence... murder .
There is no equivalent violence on the left, and there never has been.
So... why are all our right-wing shills working so hard to convince the Unthinking Faithful TM , and perhaps even a larger public, of something that doesn't exist?
What's going on here?
At first, I took these crazy articles at face value. (I was even more naive back then than I am now!) I presumed that the folks who put this up had read some wacko theory, and were just repeating it, without understanding it. So I patiently explained why that sentence is nonsense.
It was frustrating to observe that these people were impervious to fact and reason. I thought, "Good Lord, but these people are dense! "
I was wrong. Very wrong...
That project is ongoing...
As George Bush so famously said, "Fool me once, shame on... ... ummmm... errrr..."
It took me a couple years to understand what was going on with the "not a democracy" meme.
That's far too long. The nation must not be so late in understanding what the alt-right is working on now...
We have some idiots who make us laugh, too...
Let's remember that not long ago, "militia" pointed loaded weapons at Federal law enforcement officers... to "defend the rights" of a thief, Cliven Bundy.
Those "militia" did not agree with the law that Bundy was breaking, and were ready to open fire on anyone who tried to enforce that law. They were ready and willing to use force to impose their own law .
Van der Lubbe and four other communists were arrested and charged with arson and attempting to overthrow the government. Although van der Lubbe confessed to the crime, many people believed that the real culprits were the Nazi Party, probably members of the SA.
The truth of the Reichstag Fire is forever unknown... but its consequences are perfectly well known. The Nazis accused the Communists... and then arrested them en masse ... along with everyone and anyone who opposed them . Anyone who resisted was shot.
Make the people fear! Accuse your adversaries!
Then kill your adversaries...
... and anyone who refuses to docilely help with the killing of whoever else needs killing...
We have seen this movie before. Will we be satisfied to sit back and watch it again?
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I can see no other reason for the current campaign to gin up "leftist violence".
You have an interesting comprehension of history. Allow me to enlighten you:
Revolution suppressed in Germany, 1919
The political and social chaos in Germany immediately after the First World War led to rise of many violent and extreme political groups. Hitler’s NSDAP was one of these.
Hitler’s time in the army and the military background of many of his supporters led to the NSDAP becoming like a military organisation. There was a section of the party called the ‘ stormtroopers ’ (Sturm Abteilung – SA – ‘Brownshirts’). NSDAP meetings looked like military parades, and Hitler addressed them with passionate speeches that roused strong emotions in his followers.
This made it easy for them to take part in acts of violence, and party members attacked members of other political groups. In September 1921 Hitler was sent to prison for his part in a mob attack on a rival politician. The SA aimed to protect Hitler from physical attack and to disrupt political meetings of other parties.
The SA’s leaders were Hermann Goering , a former pilot, and when it was created in 1921. Killed by Adolf Hitler in June 1934." style="border-bottom: 1px dotted #111111; cursor: default !important; display: inline-block; text-decoration: none;"> Ernst Rohm , a former army captain. Hitler would make speeches to the SA inciting acts of violence against Jews and left-wing political parties. This led to street violence against socialists and communists . In addition, Jews were harassed and subjected to humiliation and violence.
Between 1929 and 1932, support increased for parties with extreme solutions to Germany’s problems. While the communists promised to give the unemployed and working classes control of the country and ownership of industry, the Nazis were seen as the strongest group capable of preventing what others saw as the threat of communism . The political system made it very difficult for the democratic parties to keep governments in power.
People began to blame the political parties for Germany’s problems. Extremist groups proposed drastic measures, and these seemed more appealing to people desperate for solutions. As democratic governments failed to deal with Germany’s problems, the Nazis looked to many to be the strongest option. In the election of July 1932 the Nazis won 37 per cent of the vote.
This made them the largest single party in the Reichstag . Hitler, as their leader, demanded to be made Chancellor, that is head of the German government. However, President Hindenburg mistrusted Hitler’s motives, so was keen to avoid giving Hitler power.
Eventually, Franz von Papen , hoping to return to a position of power, proposed making Hitler Chancellor with himself as Vice-Chancellor . Only two other Nazis would be allowed government posts, with the remaining jobs going to the moderate parties.
Fear of communism helped this plan. President Hindenburg was persuaded that Hitler could be kept under control as the Nazis had lost votes in an election in November 1932. On 30 January 1933 Hitler was made Chancellor. Von Papen boasted that: “in two months, we will have pushed Hitler into a corner so that he squeaks”.
I don't think I have to go much further, do I?
Fear of the active Communist party, the harsh Treaty Of Versailles, depression, runaway inflation and political instability all played a part. So if you are looking for some reasons, all we have from that list is the sharp turn to the left the country endured in 2009.
Are you saying that you are ginning up leftist violence, where the Nazis ginned up Communist violence?
Are you agreeing with me?
In what world would you conclude that?
I have provided the history of the Communist effort to take control of the German government after WWI. Thus the Communists over-reach helped the German people turn to someone who could prevent it! It is but one part of the reasons for the rise of Hitler, who would never have come to power if everything was fine in Germany. It is a natural correction that has happened on other occasions in world history. You could make the case that Napoleon came to power because of the rampant abuses of the French Revolution. People want safety & security. Always!
Furthermore, I even made the comparison for you to the 2016 election.
Dare I make the point again?
Very well. The sharp turn to the left in 2009 led directly to the results of the 2016 election.
Posters who always try to argue that the Nazis were left-wingers or socialists should bookmark this for future reference.
What you posted is comparable to 2016, not 2009.
"Hitler addressed them with passionate speeches that roused strong emotions in his followers. This made it easy for them to take part in acts of violence, and party members attacked members of other political groups." [This happened at Trump rallies, not Obama rallies.]
This one. You may not have intended to agree with me... but you did.
Except that there was no sharp turn to the left. Objectively, Obama was a moderate conservative. He's a leftist only in alt-right rhetoric.
So... what's left is an attempt by the right to create a sense of fear... just like the Nazis did. The difference is that where the Nazis exaggerated the Communist threat, you are just plain makin' stuff up.
It's interesting that you know 1930s German history a bit. That explains where you got the inspiration for your charade.
That says it all!
I'd say there was a reason for that - starting with what happened to that country on Nov 11, 1918. Thus if all political disasters begin with a single event, then you would have to say the comparison Bob is trying to make began for us on Nov 4, 2008.
Responsible leaders don't pit one group against another, nor do they levy fines on financial institutions and have them pay the fines to left wing organizations, nor do they file lawsuits against border states trying to enforce the very immigration law the federal government can't or won't enforce, nor do they bully the nations school system by corrupting title 9 provisions denying due process while preventing schools from disciplining/expelling delinquent students, nor do they have their Justice Department run ruff shod over local law enforcement, nor do they encourage anti police organizations, nor do they neglect their nations military, nor do they weaponize intelligence organizations against their opponents and finally they don't leave their nation $20 Trillion in debt.
There is the pedigree for where America is today!
Tell us what concrete evidence you have of a turn left in 2009. Other than electing a Black man...
I thought you were a Trump supporter...
Are you now disapproving his racist dog-whistles?
Are you disapproving his anti-Latino diatribes?
Please don't use my name in any context that I myself have not agreed to.
I have never said that "all political disasters begin with a single event". In fact, that seems to me to be a very silly thing to say.
History is a flow. Events are almost never isolated.
Obviously, not a turn to the left, though you seem to be as deeply race based as Obama was.
Tell us what concrete evidence you have of a turn left in 2009.
I thought you were reading along here. Why don't you take a look at post #1.1.6......That's Obama I was talking about
I know, everyone is a racist in a great country that overcame racism decades ago.
Huh?
Sarcasm
Everything in America is race-based. Some people recognize that reality, and try to improve the situation. Others refuse to recognize the pervasiveness of race in America... and thereby worsen the situation.
I asked for evidence. You quoting yourself does not constitute "evidence".
Wage gap between white and black Americans is worse today than in 1979
In other words, some people really do live in an imaginary reality full of conspiracy theories and propaganda. You forgot about the child sex ring operating out of the non-existent basement of a D.C. pizza joint.
Responsible leaders don't pit one group against another, eh? That's some serious irony right there.
Really? In the nation that elected a black President and has black role models throughout it's society?
I asked for evidence.
And you got it. Those things all happend
Actually, some haven't gotten over slavery.
From your Guardian article:
"Black Americans today earn even less relative to their white counterparts than they did in 1979, according to a new report by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI).
The report, released by the left-leaning thinktank on Tuesday, shows that the gap between wages of both black and white men and black and white women has widened over the last 36 years."
First, I don't put much credibility in any report from EPI. Second, such statistics can never stand on their own. We would have to know what the degrees were for and the types of employment for individuals. For instance there was a time in the 90's when College graduates with expertise in technology were guaranteed a lucrative position somewhere upon graduation. Others were also confident of rapid employment. That changed dramatically a few years ago. Many graduating now worry about finding a job based upon their level of expertise. It's all about what the market demands. Thus you have college graduates either accepting something less that they were educated for or living at home with their parents or being retrained for something the economy demands.
Finally, to seek and fix blame on anyone's outcome in America based on race is not only perpetuating a humungus lie, but it incites racial unrest.
What "things"? The election of a Black President does not prove the end of racism.
Fine.
I've shown you statistics proving racism is still very much present.
All you have to do is show statistics proving the opposite.
Good luck with that...
In fact, the insane reaction to the election of a black president has demonstrated to us that racism IS still a problem.
Oh, you proved it alright/Sar
The first Black President could'nt get elected without a minimum of 40% of the white vote. He also got 98% of the black vote. What does that tell us?
None so blind as he who will not see...
Dear Friend Bob Nelson: We Jewish People know that when you ignore violent pushy types, they don't go away satisfied.
I have little use for violence.
It is the worst known method of conflict resolution in our human history.
That said, anyone who comes near mine and me as a clear and present danger is well advised to be current on their health and life insurance premiums.
Everyone can vote as they choose. They should.
Everyone can believe or disbelieve as they wish. They should.
No one should intentionally try to do harm to anyone else.
In my case, all attempts are at their own risk.
Peace, Abundant Blessings and a Touch of Common Sense and Decency on the Side.
Enoch.
Then why do we put people who think they're Lincoln in mental hospitals? It's because they're crazy, they don't believe in or function well with reality. Sadly, there is a growing number of right wing conservatives with the same symptoms. They have feasted on so much misinformation fed to them by those who wish our countries demise that they can no longer sense fact from fiction. It's why we had a conservative show up with an assault rifle at a Pizza parlor thinking he was going to rescue some child sex slaves. It's why we saw hundreds of actual brownshirts with their swastika armbands marching in unison with those flying confederate flags and wearing MAGA hats shouting "Jews will not replace us!".
But we don't put everyone who thinks they're Lincoln in mental hospitals- although in some cases perhaps we should:
Trump compares himself to Abe Lincoln
National Socialist Movement. Draketown GA. April 21, 2018
It seems conservatives haven't evolved much in the past 150 years.
Because once again the left can't tell the difference from a conservative and one of their own.
In case you, or anyone else on the left missed it, that is the National Socialist Movement. Draketown GA. April 21, 2018 that you posted.
This is from their official web site. Show me any conservative that would ever agree to this.
We therefore demand:
The prohibition of pro-marxist unions and their supplantation with National Socialist trade unions;
The passing of a law instituting profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises;
The creation of a livable wage;
The restructuring of social security and welfare to include drug testing for welfare recipients;
The immediate discontinuation of all taxes on things of life's necessity, such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine etc.:
The replacement of the current tax system with a flat-rate tax based on income.
We demand an end to the status quo in which people die or rot away from lack of proper treatment due to the failure of their medical coverage, Health Maintenance Organization, or insurance policy.
We further demand the extensive development of insurance for old age and that prescription drugs be made both affordable and accessible.
The primary land reform will be to ensure all members of the nation receive affordable housing. The party as such stands explicitly for private property.
However, we support the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation when deemed necessary for land illegally acquired, or not administered in accordance with the national welfare.
We further demand the abolition of ground rent, the discontinuation of all taxes on property, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
The secondary land reform will be to ensure the environmental integrity of the nation is preserved;
By setting aside land for national wildlife refuges;
By cleaning the urban, agricultural, and hydrographical (water) areas of the nation;
By creating legislation regulating the amount of pollution, carbon dioxide, greenhouse gases , and toxins released into the atmosphere;
And for the continued research and development of clean burning fuels and energy sources.
The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life.
The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the state of the nation through the study of civic affairs.
We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the state.
By prohibiting abortion and euthanasia, except in cases of rape, incest, race-mixing, or mental retardation
By prohibiting child labor and ending the rudiments of child abuse, alcoholism, and drug addiction.
By creating conditions to make possible the reestablishment of the nuclear family in which the father works while the mother stays at home and takes care of the children if they so choose.
By taking away the economic burden associated with childbirth and replacing it with a structured system of pay raises for those that give birth to healthy babies, thereby returning the blessing associated with children.
To further ensure that the nation's health standards are raised, legislation shall be passed promoting physical strength and providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.
(a) That all editors of and contributors to newspapers appearing in the English language must be members of the nation;
(b) That no non-American newspapers may appear without the express permission of the State. They must not be written in the English language;
(c) That non-Whites shall be prohibited by law from participating financially in or influencing American newspapers, and that the penalty for contravening such a law shall be the suppression of any such newspapers, and the immediate deportation of the non-Americans involved.
The publishing of papers which are not conducive to the national welfare must be forbidden. We demand the legal prosecution of all those tendencies in art and literature which corrupt our national life, and the suppression of cultural events which violate this demand.
If you want the American Nazi Party instead they are just as bat shit crazy on the left.
That is the problem with the left. They continually try to disown their own, and then try to blame their violence on the right. Of course the left still claims that Antifa is a non violent organization.
National Socialist Movement. Draketown GA. April 21, 2018
. . plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose :
DONALD TRUMP DID GET SOME PRAISE FOR PUTIN COMMENTS—FROM FORMER KKK GRAND WIZARD DAVID DUKE
Democrats and some Republicans have criticized President Donald Trump for failing to take a hard stance against Russian President Vladimir Putin Monday. But Trump's performance garnered him at least one fan in the shape of former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke.
Duke said Trump’s comments, which included appearing to buy in to Putin’s denials of Russian election meddling, were “historic” and “courageous,” adding that Trump was “a hero.”
“What happened in Helsinki is Historic. In my lifetime I have never seen such a courageous attack on the whole of the ZOG, the Zionist Occupied Government of the United States and the Zionist Occupied Media!” Duke tweeted on Monday evening. “Today Trump is a Hero! Trump is no Jesus but they hate him as much!!!!!!” (Link)
Yes I see why some might think they are coming. I think we have seen some on this site voicing this same sentiment.
Many of these stormtroopers believed in the socialist promise of National Socialism and expected the Nazi regime to take more radical economic action, such as breaking up the vast landed estates of the aristocracy once they obtained national power.
They will probably start by trying to claim insurance executives are evil and those on top of the healthcare industry are greedy aristocrats. They will try to nationalize the healthcare industry and then attack others like manufacturing and banking next.
Don't forget trying to suppress free speech of opposing views ...... sometimes violently ...... usually under the guise of fighting that which THEY actually are.
insurance executives are evil and cheat policy holders every way they can
WAY off-topic...
OK but I was just responding to comment 5.1 above
And I don’t see it as off topic at all because that’s how the Brownshirts will begin their assault on capitalism. They will drum up support by trying to paint those executives as aristocrats and plutocrats.
Are the Brownshirts Coming?
Based on the antics over the past three years or so coupled with the display at the recent Tampa rally, in my estimation they have already arrived.
Yes except they wear black today and masks to cover their faces so mom doesn't recognize them on TV and kick them out of her basement.
Mythology
No .... its "Reality"
It's summer, time to leave moms basement
Out and out Racists don’t even have to wear masks anymore, they get hired by the editorial board of the New York Times now.
Are we in "OZ" ?
Look like butt hurt.
Brown Shirts? MAGA hats?
Right wing needs every excuse to excuse itself.
DJT--Alex Jones. What is the difference?
One is an unhinged ex-TV show host obsessed with insane conspiracy theories, the other is Alex Jones...
Yowzers!!!!!!!!
Were you there Bob .. do you understand at all what the grievances of the ranchers even are / were? You do know that arguments over federal and state land grabs have been going on for generations, as well as the standoffs? .. I do not condone nor strongly condemn what the local ranchers did. The numbers of individuals showing up in large groups armed to the teeth as a show of support .. was I am sure quite unnerving.. yet they were corralled down the road from the actual entrance to Bundy ranch .. and there was no violence .. unlike the violence during the Oregon stand off .. yet that was NOT violence from the militia...
Fear mongering (as you seem to be doing) is a tactic of the brown shirts you speak of .. is it not? Is not this seed a way to enforce 'your' agenda.. provide propaganda to create hysteria? .. adding pictures of Trayvon and Zimmerman .. to what avail? The Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin case was a travesty (and trust me I do not like Zimmerman and it frustrates me that he has weapons) yet to make that event racially motivated was dishonesty in the press that ran with a narrative that was written based on an altered 911 call ….
...
P.s... I laugh at your claim of NON existent violence from the left .. you must have watched a different tape than I did of Charlottesville … permitted rallies are being stopped at the start by law enforcement because of objects being thrown by protesters..
I get it that you do not support complete free speech, that you feel what you define as 'hate speech' should be dealt with though law enforcement, and I can respect that, as you have / do live in Europe for long periods of time - Yet .. the sky is not falling in the United States .. I have faith in this great nation and her people - eventually 'we' will find a way to get back on track...
Yeah, I know I went way off topic!
They showed every willingness to fire on law enforcement officers. If the ranchers can shoot cops enforcing laws they don't like... then everyone must have the same right. Anarchy and chaos!
Valid question. Would you have asked the same of a German protesting the anti-Semite diatribes of the early 1930s?
Obviously, crying "Wolf!" is wrong... unless the wolf is coming...
"Permitted rally" in Charlottesville?
So, how many people did the ranchers shoot?
Do lawbreakers get a medal for not killing anyone?
I have never heard of any, and feel bad that you didn't already know the answer yourself.
You stated the ranchers showed every willingness to fire on law enforcement officers.
I am asking how many did they kill or wound?
How many shots did they fire?
If you are going to make claims, expect to be asked to back it up with facts.
If you don't know why no shots were fired, you need to do some research.
Gee, why would people who show every willingness to fire on law enforcement officers NOT do EXACTLY that?
You really aren't making sense claiming they were willing but just couldn't quite do it?
LMFAO!
Perhaps you are unaware that charges were dismissed against Cliven Buddy and the sons were acquitted
The Marxist statist Government lost to Constitutional liberty
Showing every willingness, does not firing on anyone make .. as I said I do not condone what happened - but it is not as if it is something new ..
Yet as sad as that event was, that is all you have --- one member of the opposition went all wee whacked and injured multiples and murdered one with his car... play your twist on words .. yet you know the Charlottesville march was permitted … the venue was even attempted to be changed, but the ACLU stepped in and defended the right of the white nationalist to hold their march as permitted..
Bad situation all around - but do not wear it like some badge of honor supporting how horrible you think white nationalists are .. marches have taken place for generations by the white nationalists … do not act as if it is something new that needs to be met with the 'non existent violence' from the left... white nationalist were protesting during the removal of the confederate flag in South Carolina ……. where was the opposition protesters … Ooo that is right .. the nationalist has been emboldened by "their" president .. when actually it is that hate of the left that is emboldening the white nationalist at this moment in history!
Bob this is not the 1930's .. Hitler is not in power, and NO matter how hard you try to conjure his spirit and create a new and all powerful Hitler from the ashes .. it is not happening.....
Do your homework.
In 1931, Hitler was not in power. The storm clouds were gathering, but it wasn't yet too late to prevent the looming catastrophe.
I'm afraid that's where we are now.
I have, No need to be all snippy because once again someone called you on your bullshit.
Then you shouldn't be asking questions.
Don't quit your day job. A political prognosticator you are not.
I hope you're right.
I have to ask questions when illogical minds present silliness.
We all do.
Germans were largely driven by despair brought on by the Treaty of Versailles, the depression and a promise of hope. We aren't even close to that today. I might worry more if we were but we aren't. Not right now
Don't wait until it's too late...
Perhaps you are correct Bob .. yet I do not agree with the thesis that this is the end of times - this a mere hiccup, yet choices need to made, and my choices are not the same as, what I interpret your choices to be.
You speak of the 'unthinking faithful' . when at times it seems you are a 'blind faithful' (the violence from the left exists - the hate from all sides exists .. the only thing that will destroy the US is mob rule . 'we' will be conquered and destroy from within...……)
I believe this very strongly … the answer is for "We the People" to demand compromise in our government - but in order to do so "we" have to find a common ground … I believe it can be done!
Honestly, i think you have more to worry about where you are right now than we do.
Good post.
But sadly, the crux is "the violence from the left exists". There has not been a single death. Not one.
Meanwhile, the victims of the far right are many.
So I repeat the question asked in the seed: why are our right-wing members ginning up "leftist violence"? What is their purpose?
I can find only one answer: they are preparing the public for deadly violence against the left, to be excused as "preventive".
Exactly. It's the same with their attacks on the Mueller investigation, they want to pre-empt any conclusions claiming they're invalid because of some invented bias which will excuse their rejection of the hard facts of collusion, coordination, cooperation and obstruction perpetrated by this feckless administration and incompetent President. Now they're just creating a false narrative of imagined "violence" from the left that the conservative "big strong manly men" overcompensating for their inadequacies with their assault rifles will have to suppress.
Death is your standard for what is considered violence...?
Thanks for the conversation .. but your detachment from reality is unnerving
Stay in Europe .. where the United States still pays to keep you safe from Stalin and Hitler … 'you' just gave "unthinking faithful" a whole new definition ..
Take care of you!
Death is a lot more definitive than lesser violence. Or do you think a broken arm is the same?
Oh, and... Would you be more impressed by more deaths? Heather Heyer is hardly the only victim of right wing violence. You can have the 200-odd victims in OKC... If that's not enough, I'll list a bunch of others.
And on the left... no one...
Timothy McVeigh? ... you really are diving over the edge to dredge up Timothy McVeigh - Cheers old man .. your propaganda fueled fear mongering just jumped the shark … defend the left playing with fire .. I am thinking consult with Bill Ayers, he can give you more ammunition to defend the non existent violence of the left!
Peace out!
McVeigh wasn't a right-wing nutzoid, maybe?
You're ducking and weaving....
Perhaps so Bob.. you have taught me well!
the violence from the left exists". There has not been a single death. Not one.
Why do you say things that obviously aren’t true?
That should be hilarious. I regret that I can't log in, having been kicked out.
What do you mean there hasn't been any leftist violence? The s it an intentional lie or just due to bias wanti to forget it? I can think of a few without even looking. The republican baseball game shot up, antifa attacking people with bike locks, people being attacked for wearing a hat, just the other day a guy had his car rammed for having a trump sticker. If you have to lie then maybe your point can't carry any merit otherwise?
from the days of the KKK lynching "uppity niggers"
kkk? democrats.
antifa? democrats.
jim crow laws? democrats
and guess which party had the most resistance to woman voting? democrats.
Well, if I remember my history of the period , the "brownshirts" were the paramilitary portion made up of veterans , belonging to the national socialist workers party. and they in turn were usurped by the black shirted actual military wing of the SS of the Nazi party.
I took that history lesson as how fast socialism as described by Marx and Engle, could turn to fascism under the influence of those that desire and demand power .
personally I see no one , that is pushing for socialism , be it a euro style democratic socialism or any other incarnation of same , that I would trust not to become fascist themselves .
that of course includes the black cloaked and masked members of ANTIFA.
Look at what happened in the Soviet Union. All the Party Leaders became tyrannical dictators
just today a left winger was arrested for threatening the kids of a republican congressman.
What an outrageous double standard.
If it comes from the Right, mere words equals violence.
But if it comes from the Left, it has to be mass murder, or it's not violence.
The funny thing is the "Brownshirts" are already here and call themselves Anti-fascists while using the same tactics as the Mussolini's "Blackshirts", including the wearing of black clothing while violently attempting to suppress the free-speech of those that support Donald Trump. This is shown by the violence they conducted in Portland, Oregon just a few weeks ago. And, again with the encampment at the ICE facility in Portland that lasted 5 weeks before the Portland mayor actually told the police to step in after telling them to not help anyone that worked for ICE. Have you heard of any systematic suppression of the free speech of those on the left? No, you haven't; but every day there seems to be another leftist group attacking people who support Donald Trump, and the fact you are ignoring that fact to focus on attacks by individuals as if they are speaking for everyone who supports Donald Trump is foolishness in the extreme as it can only be argued that you support the systematic suppression of free speech by leftists by doing so, Bob.
Anti-fascist counter protests aren't "suppressing free speech", it in of itself is free speech. The fact is that "free speech" isn't consequence free, so if you tell people that your race is just genetically superior to others and that minorities are a threat to white culture and you propose white nationalist laws and ideology, expect to be shouted at as a hate monger, expect your words to have consequences. Expect people to ask you to leave their establishments or not get welcomed back to some venues or towns. That isn't a suppression of free speech, it's a expression of other peoples free speech and their right to judge you based on your own speech.
If Antifa only shouted at other people I would agree that what they are doing is free-speech. The problem is that in EVERY case where Antifa has protested, they have become violent towards those they are protesting against. And, they have STARTED the violence. And, that is the systematic suppression of others' free-speech. They know they are going to be violent, which is why they wear the masks and hoods to prevent identification; but again, you ignore that fact to show that you support the systematic suppression of free-speech.
Sort of a Warsaw Ghetto thing, tom, but, not as a final act of desperation and self preservation …
… rather, as a proverbial "stitch in time."
Antifa is usually protecting others from right-wing violence or they're responding to it. They've also been falsely accused of violence which was actually committed by right-wing freaks, like the husband & wife team who brought a gun and pepper spray to a Yianniopoulos rally at the University of Washington with the stated intent "cracking skulls" and then of shooting the husband in the leg and blaming it on Antifa, but the wife decided to shoot a peacekeeper in the gut.
The "Brown Shirts" are here, have been here all along, and under Trump, THEY HAVE A GOVERNMENT CHAMPION!
Yesterday, in Portland, Oregon, a rally comprised of an alt-right hate group, foisting its vitriolic bullshit under the guise of "God and Country," this euphemistically self-ascribed "Patriot Prayer," hitler-youth-like, Trump-paraphernalia-carrying knuckle-draggers gutlessly failed to simply state their actual agenda … that being "white nationalism"!
Rational America is becoming more aware that the Russian cyber-hacking/Vladimir-Putin-propaganda-machine, knows precisely how to use social media and, the apparently compromised Donald Trump, to exploit and stoke such haters' agenda, dividing Americans through fear, deception, and, continued attempts to steal future American elections (which is likely the reason, at least to some degree, why Republicans are spineless political pimps with regard to standing up for democracy … and, in the hopes of … positions of their own).
Donald Trump is the face and symbol and power of "white resentment," comprised primarily of a whining-scapegoating "base" which still buys the Trump litany of bullshit-faux-sympathy and promises of jobs and "winning"!
Even as Trump is FUCKING the very workers he promised to help … many of whom are among TRUMP'S BASE, because he's their "Jess Willard," in their ignorance and stupidity, they look the other way as he systematically takes them down.
How so? By way of the following (a partial list):
• Taking Billions Out Of Workers’ Pockets By Weakening Or Abandoning Regulations That Protect Their Pay
• Blocking Workers From Access To The Courts By Allowing Mandatory Arbitration Clauses In Employment Contracts
The Trump administration has taken a number of extreme actions that will hurt all workers, including pursuing and detaining unauthorized immigrants who were victims of employer abuse and human trafficking —while they were trying to enforce their rights in court —and ending Temporary Protected Status for hundreds of thousands of immigrant workers, many of whom have resided in the United States for two decades. But perhaps the most inhumane and ill-advised example has been the administration’s termination of Deferred Action of Childhood Arrivals (DACA).
Ending DACA is forcing young immigrant workers out of the regulated labor market and into the shadow labor market, where they are easily exploitable by employers by virtue of losing their ability to work lawfully. While a federal district court in California temporarily enjoined the Trump administration on January 10, 2018, from continuing the phase-out of DACA, and ordered that it continue accepting applications for renewals, the impact of the decision is unclear . The government will quickly appeal the decision, the timeline for processing renewals is unclear, and no new applications from potential DACA beneficiaries will be permitted.
• Rolling Back Regulations That Protect Worker Pay And Safety
• Stacking The Federal Reserve Board With Candidates Friendlier To Wall Street Than To Working Families
________________________________________________________________
Wake up boys! Being white and led by a Putin-puppet won't improve your quality of life! Scapegoating minorities is how authoritarian "leaders" rally haters …
" First they came ... " is a poem written by the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice of German intellectuals following the Nazis ' rise to power and subsequent purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
___________________________________________________________________________
The Brown Shirts aren't "coming" …
THEY'RE HERE!
So you deleted are upset because Trump is rolling back a little bit of the commie and Marxist fascist government put in by Democrats and Establishment Republicans over the past 85 years.
time to return to the limited government our founders established
Upset the gop are trying to undo civil rights, Social Security, health care reform and protections of our earth?
Yeah, but that is no cause to call people "Commies" or "Marxists". Don't you intend to collect Social Security?
Your usual Joe-McCarthy-non-substantive pronouncement; read the Constitution beyond the 2nd Amendment.
GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE. Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution grants Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general Welfare of the United States."
Right-wing haters have turned the word "welfare" into red meat bigot-speak.
The Right-wing notion of "limited government" is to limit what it represents to the wealthy!
I write a highly specific editorial comment … and get a bumper-sticker mentality rant as a "rebuttal"! Update your act.
Other than providing for our general welfare, our government's other main purpose and reason to exist. all the way from your county clerk and local law enforcement all the way up to providing for our national defense, is mainly to protect and defend the property rights of American citizens. Butt, when 99% of all our wealth is owned by 1% of Americans can we fairly say that our government works primarily for the very wealthy? It is through regressive tax policies and corrupt corporate governance that wealth and income disparity has become so very pronounced. Economics is just math but the gop has rigged the game in favor of the very rich for too long. Working Americans should be living in world class privilege by any modern standards butt they generally are not. Why is that do you think? Could it be that things are rigged to keep working men and women down?
Yes I took Social Security because I could not opt out of the 57 years they’ve taken my money and continue at age 70 paying SS taxes. But I did opt out of Medicare. I want others to have a better option for their future than this Federal ponzu program
The General welfare clause is about the continued well being of the Sovereign States, not welfare programs for people
James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, elaborated upon this limitation in a 1792 letter to James Robertson:
With respect to the two words "general welfare," I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators. If the words obtained so readily a place in the "Articles of Confederation," and received so little notice in their admission into the present Constitution, and retained for so long a time a silent place in both, the fairest explanation is, that the words, in the alternative of meaning nothing or meaning everything, had the former meaning taken for granted.
“If Congress can apply money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may establish teachers in every State, county, and parish, and pay them out of the public Treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post roads. In short, every thing, from the highest object of State legislation, down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress; for every object I have mentioned would admit the application of money, and might be called, if Congress pleased, provisions for the general welfare.”
James Madison, on the House floor during debates on a Cod Fishery bill [February 1792]
James Madison Federalist No. 45, Alleged Danger from the Powers of the Union to the State Governments Considered, Independent Journal, January 26, 1788;
“The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.” –
Enough said. I rest my case...
You forgot "We the people" in front of that.
Do you have other insurance? What other options are good? This is a big deal to a lot of people and if there are other options I'd love to know what other things could work.
More than once, in the representation of a client in an arbitration proceeding, did the prosecution attempt to characterize a contractual clause as … "that is not what it means …" to which the arbitrator would interject … "I don't care what counsel thinks it means … THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS!
Why is it conservatives rail against judges who allegedly "legislate from the bench," the so-called "activist" judges … UNLESS they legislate on the right-wing side?
By the way, livefreeordie … now we are having a meaningful discussion … I respect that … and you for taking the time and making the effort!
You don't pay anything for your employees. They pay you. That's what your profit is.
If they are truly costing you money (a genuine expense and not a source of profit), then don't employ them.
If you think your employees are costing you money, then fire them all and see what happens to your business.
If I could have opted out Of paying the tax, I would have. But since they continue at age 70 make me pay the tax 8m going to get some of my money back that they stole from me
That has to be one of the dumbest statements ever. Employee wages and benefits are deducted under expenses on a business return
His statement about employees paying their employer is true enough. I used to be a building inspector and the company I worked for paid me just under $30 an hour but billed my hours on each job site out at $85 an hour. I calculated after all my income, benefits and withholding were added up they were still turning a tidy profit of $39 an hour on my work. And sure, they had to organize it all and run things and take the financial risk for which they earned that money and I don't begrudge them one bit. But the point is sound, without employees doing the work they are billing for, there would be no income and thus no business. And if you're spending more on an employee than they are making you then you're a terrible business manager and you're going to go bankrupt.
Workers are always paid less than what their work brings in for a business. They have to be. If they weren't, there would be no profit for employers at the end of the day, and there would be no motive for operating a business by employing wage labor in the first place.
If you purchase some means of production and hire some labor to work it for you (someone to combine their labor with it in order to produce a good or service to be exchanged in the market for money), and after everything is said and done (outgoes deducted from income) you end up with more money than what you started with, then all of that labor and means of production didn't actually cost you a penny. It made money for you. Your wealth didn't decrease at the end of the transaction, it increased.
But it's not magic. It's not alchemy. The increase comes from the worker(s) performing unpaid labor, which the employer pockets. Nobody gets to go home after they've made enough widgets to cover their own wage and replace whatever means of production they've used up, they have to stay the full day and make as many extra widgets as possible for their employer, because that's where the employer's profit comes from. That's why we have a wealthy owner class (extremely wealthy in some cases) and a not-so-wealthy working class (with many folks working their asses off but still barely scraping by).
It's an extremely simple concept to grasp. What part don't you understand?
Well to be fair your customers (wherever your revenue came from) really paid that half. But yes, many don't understand employers pay half of everyone's SS.
We do, because we own businesses who actually employ other people and actually pay that half.
Apparently, many don't understand that that money comes from the value added by the labor of the employees in the first place, and none of it, wages included, is 'gifted' or even paid in advance. Employees have to do the work that pays for it first, wages included, because the product of their labor is where it comes from.
The only exceptions would be new hires going through a temporary training or probationary period who aren't quite up to speed yet, or entire business start-ups that might be operating in the red for a time while trying to get established, but none of that is business as usual, so to speak.
If you are an established business and turning a profit, or at the very least breaking even, then you are not paying for it, the employees are. That money comes out of what they produce for the business over and above their wage. It isn't being gifted from an external source of funding outside of the business, out of the kindness of the employer's heart or something. Employees have to do the work that pays their own way and then some, whenever possible, which goes to the owner(s) as profit. If they don't or can't do that, then the employer really does end up holding the tab, and if a second chance reassignment elsewhere in the business is unavailable (or non-existent in smaller businesses), then the employee is terminated.
Apparently many don't understand that without a business to work for, the employee doesn't have a job. Neither half gets paid.
Unless of course the person is self employed, in which case that person is the employer as well and pays both halves
Consumers constitute roughly 70% of the American economy … and it's THE WORKERS WKO ARE THE CONSUMERS!
It is a race to the bottom when employers pay shit wages … they erode the very economy on which their businesses ultimately rely.
And it’s a race to unemployment when workers refuse to do the work required. That helps no one. I can’t find enough workers willing to do the job needed. They expect twice the pay for half the work.
You worked in media right? You have no idea what it’s like out here in blue collarsville today. I do, i’m living it right now. Just like the previous 40 years.
Do your job, you’ll get endless pay and a fantastic retirement in 30 or so years and yet i can’t get people today to bite. They’d rather get a liberal arts degree, flip burgers at MacDonalds when done and bitch about not getting paid 15 bucks an hours for doing teenagers work. Stupid when with a little effort they can do two or three times better.
once again, employees aren’t jack shit without someone willing to hire them and if they aren’t willing to do the job required they aren’t worth tits on a boar hog
Employers that ask too much for what they are willing to pay has been my experience more than once. I'm not a slave and there are millions of employers in this country. I looked till I found employers who respected their employees and was willing to pay for what they required from them. We got along just great for many years.
Perhaps you are asking for too much for to little in todays labor market. $$$ talks, BS walks.
If you still have a problem try contacting immigration and request overseas labor like president trump has done recently to staff his golf course. I'm sure you can get a wavier as well.
Cheep labor should be available to everyone !! It's the American way.
not in so many words but in actions yes. See below. And double is an exaggeration. It’s more of a premium pay thing one gets to manage vs just do as told. If I had a nickel for every non management level person who came to me asking for premium pay, while not willing to do the work required at that level, I would be a “retired” rich man right now.
The construction trades. I have people that worked their entire careers with us, who retired from our company, that rarely if ever got laid off if they didn’t want to be so yeah. They got all the hours they wanted. Many times OT when the jobs allowed for it. At least that’s the way it used to be. Not so much today.
My top people make a package of over six figures in a relatively low COL area. Full pension and a great healthcare plan when they retire. Both nearly fully funded right now. They do very well if they are willing to do the job required of them.
No argument there. I’ve been on both sides of the fence but this isn’t a chicken and an egg thing. The fact remains the jobs wouldn’t be there if there wasn’t business owners willing to take on the added risks of owning a company.
THAT is an undeniable fact.
Thanks for the advise but you are not even close to the right track in my case. See my answer to Mac above if you don’t understand why. If you still don’t understand after that I probably can’t help you.
Honestly no offense intended but until you run a business, you can’t really appreciate all the issues that come with it. Yeah I know folks like some college professors tell you can but you can’t. Not really. And you don’t sound like you’ve owned a business. At least not one remotely like mine.
That said, as the saying goes ..... those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.
Thank you for a candid response.
I'll wager you and I could exchange some interesting tales of labor and management; I wish you and your company well.
Generally business owners take on the responsibilities of business ownership for the extra benefits owning a business entitles including higher profitability. They dont start companies to employ others they start companies for themselves and FYI Yes I have been a business owner and do know the headaches involved.
Your also correct it was not a remote business it was a hands on business where I knew how much work my people did and they were amply rewarded for their hard work and PS: I never had a problem finding people to employ.
I could and did,
those who can't ? What's the problem ?
No doubt. I'm very glad i see light at the end of the tunnel. I'll miss the challenges that come with this job but i will not miss the BS. Either it gets worse every year or i've simply had my fill of it. Probably some of both
You're stating the obvious there. i really don't think most people start businesses thinking they'll make less money and have less problems. Do you?
Seems like you have a chip on shoulders about this and simply want to argue. I'm not interested in that. But based on your comments above i have my doubts that you really owned and operated a successful business that employed other people. It certainly wasn't a business like mine.
So what type of business did you own?
I have no problem. Sounds like you do though.
Good, however it did sound like you were having an employee problem, I was trying to be helpful. I have no problem with you not wanting my input though, I'm used to that. I also had no problem with my employees so...
Good luck finding and keeping the employees you need.
Why because I respected the people who worked for (with) me ? Some of us do ya know, it works out very well for all of us, many more should try it.
I owned and operated a quite successful residential moving company for many years and I never had problems finding and keeping qualified people to work for/with me.
It certainly wasn't a business like mine. Considering you said you were having employee problems you are probably correct, your business is not like mine.
He got his but we can go fuck ourselves
Lol that comment just shows how obtuse you are on the topic. Assuming i don't respect my employees? Hilarious!
Yeah probably not since we've been in business since 1977. We've somehow managed to muddle our way through it all these years.
That said, how many people have retired out of your company with full pensions and health care? I'm guessing not a one.
You are correct I closed my business and relocated to a better economic area and never reopened it. That doesn't negate my point, I treated my employees with respect and got the same in return.
"employees aren’t jack shit without someone willing to hire them" But then again I never looked at people that way either.
To each their own. We all have different experiences and beliefs. Good luck with finding the employees you need.
My mistake.
Evidently you do respect them.
sarc
Lol, once again you don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
OK if you say so, But Good luck with your business anyway.
I do because it’s true when it comes to my business and thx if you are being sincere. Although I have my doubts about that.
You are welcome and yes I am being sincere. I have walked both sides of employer and employee more than once in my life time. I’ve had good employers and good employees and I’ve had bad employees and bad employers. I’ve also lived in different parts of the country and found the employment market varies in different places in the country.
For instance in some parts of America (where employment is limited) employers have the edge, in large cities where employers are abundant the shoe is many times on the other foot and the employee has the advantage because of much more choice of employees.
I also witnessed that many employers in the limited employment areas certainly take advantage of the more than willing poor hard working folks. ( I grew up in the Midwest where employment was limited at the time) But in the cities where employees have more choice of employers, employers are forced to compete and generally the employee gets a better deal.
Supply and demand works both ways.
One of the commonalities I have seen is IF a employer doesn’t like their employees neither stays happy for long and IF a employee doesn't like their employer generally they dont last long either.
You say you do respect your employees so I’ll take you at your word. But when you describe them in the way you did, it makes me wonder.
I really do hope you have good luck finding the right people to work for/with you. Being able to find and keep good employees is certainly a large part of what makes and keeps a business successful. (and depending on the market, in some places harder than others to do.)
In conclusion, I do wish you the best of luck finding the right people for your business needs.
Well then thx again, it will be, what it will be. I could have retired a year or two ago but we are trying to make a go of it for, wait for it, our good employees who give a shit and try to do a good job. We are going in a negative direction for them but that has it limits. Either way they will get taken care of. But trust me, it sucks after 40+ years.
You might not like the wording but it’s true. No employers, no jobs. It’s risk reward and there is reason most new companies fail within the first few years. The risks are great even if you do know what you are doing.
hope you have a great evening. I chowed some great sweet corn today and am getting set up for Perseid viewing. Love that stuff!
I'll bet, congratulations on being in business for that long. And YES I would imagine after 40 years owning and operating any business would SUCK big time.
I had had enough of ALL of the damn headaches long before that and closed down that business and relocated to a large city where there were many great opportunities besides owning your own company.
I am retired now after 48 years of owning businesses and working for others and although I miss being as busy and productive as I'd been all those years, I am enjoying the freedom of not reporting to an 8 to 12 plus hour business day 5 or 6 days a week doing things for others just to have the money to do what I want for the other hours of my life.
It also pays to plan ahead and save, save, invest and save some more.
PS: I'm only 60 years young...
Also,I think its commendable that you are staying open for now to allow time for your employees to prepare for their futures and I certainly wish you a happy retirement when the time is right.
Thanks for the interaction, have a nice evening.
This is what fascism sounds like:
"Unfortunately, common sense is just not common. We have to regulate every aspect of people’s lives.”
Councilman Jesse Dominguez, Peoples Republic of Santa Barbara.
To him i say, good luck.
That dog won't hunt in most of this country.
Not even close.
There are now over a hundred Comments... but almost none that respond to the question asked in the article:
Why is the alt-right ginning up leftist violence, almost nonexistent, to make it into something fearful?
Is this preparing for an American Kristallnacht?
Almost non-existant??????
"Several leftist activist groups organized the “Resist Patriot Prayer” march. The Facebook event description states, “We make no apologies for the use of force in keeping our communities safe from the scourge of right-wing violence.”'
Why is the alt-right ginning up leftist violence, almost nonexistent, to make it into something fearful?
Is this preparing for an American Kristallnacht?
Here's my response, Bob.
The alleged-mind of the Trumpian somehow champions the first Amendment rights of Neo-Nazis and other white supremacists, who, as history can verify, express those "rights" by way of genocide, lynching and the demonstrative advocacy thereof!
While at the same time, these self-ascribed patriots and would-be murderous, so-called Constitution-loving aspirants to a White-Christian Nation, bitch and moan as their targeted victims, demonstrate against their insidious hatred and foul presence!
As you sow , so shall you reap * , Hateful Hypocrites ... HH/88.
* "The personal consequences of one's actions are in proportion to the good or bad intentions towards others."
Because in their tiny little insecure pea-brains the word 'leftist' translates to 'darkies', and this...
The US will become ‘minority white’ in 2045, Census projects
The alt-right is a run-of-the-mill, low-IQ reactionary movement resulting from changing demographics.
Ever taken a look at Stormfront? Not a lot of brainiacs hanging out over there.
... with bottomless financing from the ultra-rich...
Oh boy another article by a liberal trying to re-write history.
Sorry pal, Everyone that has read a history book knows where the KKK and Jim Crow came from along with support for slavery. Hell they even opposed the civil rights act of 1964.
The really sad irony here is that if they didn't constantly choose to be on the wrong side of history they wouldn't feel the need to re-write it.
Do you have anything pertinent to the article?
Wow - I though his comment made a lot more sense than the seeder's bias.
What "seeder"?
No he doesn't. He just likes to crap all over everyone else's seeds.
The KKK is in its third iteration … the first two iterations, those that today's conservatives attribute to Democrats, were in no way the Democrats of today.
Activism by independent KKK groups in Birmingham increased as a reaction to the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s.
Independent Klan groups violently opposed the civil rights movement. [149] KKK members were implicated in the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing on a Sunday in September 1963, which killed four African-American girls and injured 22 other people.
The Dixiecrats of that era morphed into today's Republican party!
Neo-Nazi alliances and Stormfront
In 1995, Don Black and Chloê Hardin, the ex-wife of the KKK Grand Wizard David Duke , began a small bulletin board system (BBS) called Stormfront . In the 21st century, Stormfront has become a prominent online forum for white nationalism , Neo-Nazism , hate speech , racism , and antisemitism . [198] [199] [200]
Duke has an account on Stormfront which he uses to post articles from his own website. He also polls forum members for opinions and questions, in particular during his internet broadcasts. Duke has worked with Don Black on numerous projects including Operation Red Dog in 1980. [201] [202]
DAVID DUKE!
David Duke: Trump win a great victory for 'our people'
By ADAM CANCRYN
11/09/2016 02:57 AM EST
Former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke is calling Donald Trump's electoral victory "one of the most exciting nights of my life."
Duke, a white nationalist who unsuccessfully ran for Louisiana Senate, tweeted early Wednesday that his supporters played a major part in paving Trump's road to the presidency.
"Make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!" he wrote.
______________________________________________
Time to get up-to-date, 96WS6!
What is your point?
MY POINT: That it is inaccurate to imply/argue/conclude/conflate the Democratic Party of 100 years ago with that of today; in fact, the Republican party of today, perpetrates and encourages its base to harbor the same adverse objectives regarding civil rights as did the Dixiecrats.
What's your point?
I like how you try to conflate Right-wing extremist with the Republican party but if that's the case then you have to include ANTIFA as part of the Democrat party.
Can I throw out Left-wing terrorist groups from the 70's as representation of todays Democrats?
I myself feel Democrats do more harm to minorities with there feel good laws than good.
Make your case with specifics … please give an example of a "feel good law" and how it does harms. I'll respond.
I would guess most antifa members consider themselves Democrats or independents just as most right wing extremists consider themselves Republican. It's not that either party own the violent extremists that commit crimes in their names, but each ones ideology certainly presents something that attracts those elements. And in the case of the left wing, antifa who threw a few punches at Nazis and destroyed a few barricades, they're really not a threat to anyone not brandishing a swastika flag or armband. With right wing extremists, they promote hatred of non-whites and non-Christians and have gone so far as to ram a car into the crowd of peaceful protesters killing one, injuring dozens, shot a doctor in the head while he attended Church, shot 9 black Americans while they were praying in Church, murdered a gay Jewish man in January, stabbed three people killing two on a Portland train because they looked Muslim, stabbed a black 66 year old man with a sword killing him, shot up a Planned Parenthood, the attack on the Overland Park Jewish community center, the Sikh temple shooting, the tri-state killing spree, the holocaust memorial museum shooting and dozens more within the last decade. I'd take the relatively mild punch throwing antifa any day over right wing extremists.
You're the one who posted two links, each one falsely alleging connections between violent groups, Clinton and Obama … yet you accuse me of "conflating!"
Off hand, I can think of roughly 6 million people who might have benefited significantly from an "antifa" during WWII.
As in physics, IN LIFE, often for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. We might not have antifas if we did not initially have extreme right-wing thugs and haters.
Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising waited until too late to resist the "Fine People" of the pre-latter-day Charlottesville Neo-nazis!"
Don't want an ass-whoopin' … don't march around with torches chanting "Jews will not replace us!"
Common-fucking sense!
Candace Owens and Steve Scalise beg to differ.
Holy cow, it's not a contest. As long as those numbers are more than zero for any group, we're all losing. Don't you get that?
Wrong!
It most definitely is a contest, in which one side kills its opponents...
There was no violence against them.
Bullshit
If you feel being accosted and things thrown at you as no violence then yeah there wasn't any.
I know the fake news CNN didn't cover it but it was out there.
Watch the video. Someone throws liquid on his back.
I said that was assault. WTF more do you want? It was probably water or a soda. No harm done whatsoever.
Until such time if any, Beck shows the actual incident, calling CNN's coverage "fake news" without showing the alleged REAL news, one might assume that Beck is the faker.
Let's see the actual incident so we can decide for ourselves.
This is violence:
What?
You need a freaking video to believe they were accosted?
Maybe you will believe it from the racist Candace Owens mouth.
Well, first thing is that they took a camerman to breakfast with them. Who does that unless they knew something in advance?
They reportedly have 'frequented' the restaurant before without any issues.
When they were leaving CO turns and asks if the camera is on and working; Kirk affirms this.
There's no doubt that there were people behaving badly and Candice initially relished it, pointing at and laughing at the "protesters.
My only problem with Candice Owens reporting of the incident is that these weren't protesters dressed in black and hiding their faces as is in other Antifa incidents,
yet she repeats that over and over. ( They sent up a bat signal?)
Also I watched Owens films several times looking for all of the black, brown and Hispanic Philadelphia Police Officers that were supposedly present and attacked.
There were no attacks on the officers who represented each race and gender of the typical Philly cop.
There were at least three white officers in CO's own films
and the only attack was on Kirk who got wet with bottled water.
Owens has about as much credibility as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but she is definitely a much better, more believable speaker.
Owens lies and the other has no business running for public office.
Ah yes the sneaky black woman orchestrated 30 people to pose as ANTIFA and accost her. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Well somebitch. My Dad drove down the same road for years before someone failed to stop at a stop sign and killed him. I knew something was fishy..
Well yeah because the stupid LWNJ where calling her a racist.
Well you got me there because I seen at least two black officers and two Hispanics and only the one white officer by the door. I forget though that the left calls Hispanics white when it is convenient for them.
Well I guess I'll just have to take your word for it for I wasn't there and obviously you were.
I never thought about that. Why in the hell did they bring a cameraman with them? KD you've proven exactly nothing nada zip zilch zero.You've got NOTHING as usual
you could try watching the films that Candice linked and see that there was no brown wall of police officers and there were several white officers present
which makes her Fox news statement "incorrect"; Either that or she only sees brown people, yeah maybe that's it...
The police officers who responded were not exclusively black, no matter how she spins it.
The word is "EVIDENCE," not "hearsay," but evidence. In America, when someone makes an allegation, he/she is required to satisfy the BURDEN OF PROOF".
What do you know about Candace Owens?
I'll educate you.
Owens is known for her criticism of Black Lives Matter . [4] [26] [27] [28] She has described Black Lives Matter protesters as "a bunch of whiny toddlers, pretending to be oppressed for attention." [29] Owens has argued that African Americans have a "victim mentality" and often refers to the Democratic Party as a "plantation". [24] [26] She has argued that the American left "like black people to be government-dependent". [30] Owens has argued that black people have been brainwashed to vote for Democrats. [3] She has argued that police violence against black people is not about racism. [26] [29] According to The Guardian and the Daily Beast, Owens has referred to police killings of black people as a trivial matter to African Americans. [24] [8]
After the 2017 white supremacist rally in Charlottesville , Owens said that concern over rising white nationalism was “stupid”. [5]
Climate change
Owens rejects the scientific consensus on climate change . [31] [5] She has called climate change a lie used to “extract dollars from Americans.” [5]
Me Too Movement
Owens described the #MeToo Movement - which was an international movement against sexual harassment and assault - as "stupid" and said that she "hated" the movement. [32] [33] Owens wrote that the #MeToo Movement was premised on the idea that "women are stupid, weak & inconsequential." [32] [33] She is critical of feminism. [34]
Abortion
She has said that abortion is “extermination” of black babies. [5]
Welfare
She has advocated for an end to all welfare programs. [5]
Other
She attended the opening of the United States embassy in Jerusalem . [35] She is critical of the press and open borders policies. [34] She has called for the immediate deportation of all undocumented immigrants . [5]
In May 2018, Owens praised Louis Farrakhan 's tweet endorsing Donald Trump with a description of “a really big deal” and “relevant.” [32] Afterward, Owens received criticism from conservative figures for praising Farrakhan - who has a history of anti-semitic remarks - Owens deleted the tweet. [32]
She has described George Soros and “globalists” as among the most urgent threats in the United States. [5] She has said that conservative critics of her are generally “secret socialists.” [5]
Wow she is a sell out to the 'conservatives'. Sold her soul for the almighty dollar.
I wonder how many cups of mystery liquid I could throw on you before you decided it was doing harm.
Oooh, so now it's a 'mystery liquid'? It was water.
Looks like this thing was a set up by Owens and Kirk.
Why didn't he press charges when the 'mystery liquid' aka water was thrown on him?
This sell out has all her 'conservative talking points' down pat. Good job Candace, good job!
How do you know? How would you know in the moment?
And what if it weren't. What if it were hot coffee? Urine? Is it still not a big deal?
No one I know praises unprovoked violence. If you are referring to violence perpetrated in the name of right or left wing ideology, I believe I can show more documented incidents of right wing violence than left.
Why do you think that would be significant even if it were true? The fact that this is your argument just tells me that you condone violence by leftists. One act of violence should be too much.
Again, what violence?
Leftists love to say speech=violence. But a leftist can throw something at a conservative at it doesn't count I guess. If you were suddenly surrounded by a dozen strangers shouting at you, blasting a bullhorn in your ear and throwing drinks (you hope not urine) at you, you'd be ok with that? You wouldn't feel physically in danger? You wouldn't consider any part of that violent? What has to be thrown before this becomes a violent crime for you?
By the way, robbery is considered a violent crime and it's defined as theft by force or fear (aka threat of force). In other words, the robber doesn't have to break your leg or kill you for the act to be considered violent.
This is violence:
I think this 'protest' were paid actors by Owens and Kirk. Why else was the cameraman there?
You initiated this pissing contest with …
Candace Owens and Steve Scalise beg to differ.
So, once you begin an attempt to enumerate acts to make a point, it's fair game to not only show that others can out-enumerate you, thus beating you at your own game.
My argument is not about condoning violence … it's about showing that quantifying acts of violence perpetrated by ons side … implies such acts are more-or-less one sided … once you go there … you open the flood gates.
It is highly rationalized statements like this that helps assure the discourse of topics like to remain so polarized. One wonders if the intent in such cases is purposeful.
Sadly, for some in here, i believe that is exactly what it is.
Oh, indeed!! Except that... violence is polarized. The right kills twenty-five for every one that the left kills. The killing is polarized.
WHY do you insist on ignoring the massive difference in violence on the two sides of the spectrum? What is your interest in protecting the killers?
I'm not protecting anyone. Unlike some on NT, i'm not making ridiculous rationalizations regarding violence in general.
You're equating twenty-four dead with one dead... depending on who does the killing...
... while accusing others of rationalizing...
Cool!
I'm doing nothing of the sort and you saying that i am ....... uncool!
Tell me how your 24.1 can be interpreted otherwise.
You criticized Mac for pointing out that you started the citing of violence: "Candace Owens and Steve Scalise beg to differ".
And then when when i gave a closer look at that violence, with its flagrant "polarization" in exactly the opposite direction, you suddenly want to change subjects...
... but you're not protecting anyone...
What violence? A drink was thrown on him. Will he ever recover from such 'violence'?
That's right, i'm not. No matter how hard you try to make it so.
Thats just how it is Bob, no matter how hard you try to mind-fuck it to mold it your way..