Liberal America has a political violence problem
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Hamburg, Germany, July. As world leaders gather for the G20 summit, far-left “anti-fascist” (antifa) rioters set fire to cars and property, terrorize residents and injure more than 200 police officers attempting to keep the peace. Did you miss it? CNN’s initial reports referred to the “protesters” as “eclectic” and “peaceful.”
But you need not cross the shining seas to experience violence, destruction of property and a general dismantling of liberal values from the political left. You could simply visit America’s elite college campuses like Yale or Middlebury or Berkeley, where tomorrow’s leaders attempt to shut down conservative voices with protest or riots. At Middlebury, rioting students landed liberal professor Allison Stanger in a neck brace for the crime of defending a conservative academic’s right to speak. At Berkeley, mobs of students created a “war zone” ahead of a planned visit from conservative provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos, injuring Trump supporters and causing $100,000 in damages.
Or head to Portland, Ore., one of the most liberal cities in the nation in the heart of the progressive Pacific Northwest, which this month Politico labeled “America’s Most Politically Violent City.” The progressive paradise —where Republicans are virtually an extinct species — has witnessed millions in damages attributed to the same types of anti-fascists-in-name-only that kept Hamburg residents paralyzed in fear this month. A “counter-protest” to a planned pro-Trump rally landed 14 antifa in jail for attacking the police with explosives and bricks.
Witness the blood-soaked congressional baseball field in Alexandria, Va., site of the June attack on U.S. Rep. Steve Scalise , R-La., and other Republicans batting up for their annual bipartisan game. James Hodgkinson, a “fervent supporter of progressive politics,” showed up to the field with a rifle, a handgun and a hit list of Republicans. As Scalise fought for his life, MSNBC host Joy Reid felt conflicted: The attempted assassination was a “delicate thing” because of Scalise’s conservative views like opposition to gay marriage. “Are we required in a moral sense to put that aside in the moment?” she wondered. Yes, Joy, you are. The shooting of a mainstream, congressional Republican leader is reprehensible, and in no way justifiable.)
Now cross the Potomac and visit the halls of Congress, where Democratic lawmakers have accused Republicans of murder for supporting an overhaul to the spiraling, ruined Obamacare program, which by next year will leave dozens of counties without a single option for insurance. Reasonable people can disagree about how much our Medicaid program should grow without comparing the Republican bill to 9/11, as Sen. Bernie Sanders, the independent from Vermont, did recently. Or saying the health care bill is paid for with “blood money” of dead Americans, as Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., tweeted shortly after the Scalise attack. If our sitting senators don’t act more responsibly, who will?
Instead of retweeting, liberals who care about preserving our political system should be outraged that these are the standard-bearers of their party.
Nobody is directly responsible for a shooting except the shooter, and nobody throws a brick except the person who picks it up. No side has a monopoly on political violence. There are loonies at the fringes of every political movement — mentally ill, perturbed and paranoid — who can be stirred toward violence or dissuaded from it.
But when we have Democratic senators accusing political opponents of murder, when our college campuses descend into assault zones for conservative speakers (or those who defend them), when our major cities become playgrounds for far-left rioters and the news media gloss over it, we move toward a more violent and fractured society, not a safer one.
If gay people were pouring into bars and punching straight people, I as a gay man would speak out. If Jews were propagating terror in the name of our religion, I would condemn it vociferously. And when violence has come from the conservative side, I don’t hesitate to stand against it. But it’s not.
There have been no right-wing groups storming campuses and flinging feces at speakers we don’t like; no tea party mobs destroying property, assaulting police officers, and paralyzing our major cities; and no Republican senators calling their colleagues murderers just weeks after a political assassination attempt.
From Portland to New Haven to Washington, the violence we’re witnessing is largely a product of the hard left, and the reaction from mainstream liberals — mostly silence, dismissiveness, equivocation — means it will continue to flourish.
To move toward a less violent and hyper-charged society, we must be clearheaded about violence where we see it, and not avoid the subject. We must condemn it without conditions.
If you think Republicans are murderers, you’re an extremist. If you’re trading in that kind of rhetoric just to shut the other side up or raise a buck, you’re giving cover to extremists. And if you object to political violence but fail to speak out, your weakness is causing our society to fracture.
It’s time for liberal America to speak out against violence and the rhetoric that incites it.
Tags
Who is online
156 visitors
A voice of reason in a sea of madness.....
You don't differentiate between the Antifa and Black Bloc, who are anarchists.
I have never even heard of them is this some new made up to try to convince people that ANTIFA is peaceful?
Hey found some info. So how do you even tell these guys and ANTIFA apart? They use the same tactics and wear the same kinds of masks the ANTIFA criminals do. Make no mistake, if you came to start a riot or incite violence you are not a peaceful protester. You are a criminal. If you weren't you wouldn't need to cover your face.
BTW thanks for pointing out there are even worse left wing wackos than ANTIFA to worry about.
From everything I have read, 'black bloc' is a tactic of Antifa and even white nationalists in order to protect ones identity .. even after reading the links, I am still thinking that these individuals are one in the same. All one needs is a helmet and a face cover - Ta Da black bloc - for appearances, I guess everyone can also dress in black...
Looks that way to me too.
This is correct. Black bloc are tactics. Although some groups have adopted the name. Words change I guess but initially it was just tactics used
I suppose it could be for blame sake that black bloc is seen as a different organization/movement - ignore the man behind the curtain kind of thing...
There is so much anger, that runs so deep .. what else can become of it but violence? I would like to think Charlottesville was a one of a kind explosion - the law enforcement at the scene, out numbered and I think intimidated .. did nothing but watch as 35 different states supremacists converged on Charlottesville along with Antifa...
The Frontline program Tuesday night said that there was no intelligence being shared, and that Charlottesville police did not do their research (paraphrasing of course) thus were caught with their pants down.
I had run-ins with them during the anti-war protests in 2002-03. They tended to break stuff and then leave but the media didn't see them so they blamed the broken windows and burned cars on the anti-war types like us. We called them anarcho-kiddies. Most of them are just looking for a reason to break stuff and cause trouble.
I've never seen Antifa, but they have to be more peaceful than those punks.
It seems you have trouble makers that hide in the rest of the crowd to cause problems, how ever you haven't had a car run though the middle of the Con crowd killing a young woman.
I agree as well.
'Hamburg, Germany, July. As world leaders gather for the G20 summit, far-left “anti-fascist” (antifa) rioters set fire to cars and property, terrorize residents and injure more than 200 police officers attempting to keep the peace. Did you miss it? CNN’s initial reports referred to the “protesters” as “eclectic” and “peaceful.”
How does relate to the 'liberal america having a political violence problem' since it happened in Germany?
If you read past the first paragraph you should be able to figure that our for yourself.
I did - but the usual blathering nonsense turned me off.
Is that why you have never finished one?
They don’t read our seeds. They are here only to criticize.
Anyone who is scribbled enough to think Trump is a good president, is not worth listening to at all.
Anyone who rants, raves and otherwise carries on about Trump like many on here do, has bigger problems than who our POTUS is.
MUCH bigger problems .....
Oh, please! There have been several instances where it was perfectly clear that you yourself had not read your seed.
This article is over a year old. At least find something current to make an argument about a supposed present threat.
That is a good point John. Since this article was written Maxine has rounded up the troops and there have been several more ANTIFA clashes. A black female conservative was publicly harassed and shouted White supremacist slogans at, and in an almost word for word execution of that encouragement...there were a couple of liberals in the restaurant and (although she is not a cabinet member and does not work for Trump) they called a bunch of other people and "created a crowd" and "pushed back on them" and "told them they are not welcome".
...and here is Hillary with an ANTIFA terrorist that was recently arrested for illegally carrying a deadly weapon.
"And when violence has come from the conservative side, I don’t hesitate to stand against it. But it’s not."
Really? It's not? Seems to be a long record of right wing violence and murder that the author has conveniently forgotten about. (Column shows # injured/killed)
Here's some of your Antifa peaceful marchers cold-cocking a guy just walking down the street - not violence?????
Wonder why they all have to cover their faces - hit you from behind - always be with a crowd - aren't they "proud" of what they're doing?
First, I have always denounced any violence or vandalism by any side of the political fence. Second, antifa doesn't represent me and is likely made up of a bunch of hooligan anarchist opportunists than actual liberals, progressives and Democrats. And lastly, really? You're going to counter the long list of right wing killers with "Look at this, a guy punched a Nazi". Oh no! Stop the presses! A punch was thrown so that of course excuses all the white supremacists and right wing conservatives who have no problem murdering Americans they disagree with. /s
That sums ANTIFA up in a nutshell. If they weren't criminals they wouldn't cover their faces, They wold stand proud of what they stand for and show their face.
Because if they don't mom will find out what they are up to and kick them out of the basement.
Thus drying up their yoohoo, hot pockets and cheeetos source
Hello Mr. G ...
Do you have a date on this photo? I am just curious, seems to me it has been a while since I have seen hoods on Klansmen
No I don't, I looked for a date so that I could date it but, there wasn't one, however, the site I took it from has plenty more from different eras of the klan if you're interested. I think this one is pretty recent, the person facing away from the camera is a woman and, the clothes she has on are more modern country than would have been present say two decades ago.
The question still stands, why do they need to hide their faces if what they are doing isn't going to lead to violence?
Thanks Mr G...
When it comes to the Klan, they use to and I presume still do have different levels of meeting/gatherings where traditional dress is required.... In the past 10 / 15 years the Klan has come out of the closet, but prob are going to cover up again since there is a website outing white supremacists .. people hide their identity for many reasons - violence is a part of it when it comes to Klan, anonymity 'was' key in the scheme of things … as many were docs, lawyers .. even judges under those white sheets burning crosses..
Anifa/Black Bloc are employing similar tactics .. anonymity in case of violence, which they themselves say they are ready for at all times.
ALL of them (Antifa and the Klan) have a private life and do not desire everyone to know their extreme beliefs .. one cannot walk into a room and spot which ones are which....
Hope I kind of answered the question..
Not in my opinion, the difference I see is in the way they mean the phrase, "anonymity in case of violence, which they themselves say they are 'ready for at all times'". Being ready for violence can mean many things but, I think it has to do with two things with these groups, the klan is ready to commit violence at any time, Antifa is ready to defend themselves against violence at anytime or, commit violence, depending on the situation because, I'm sure there are people in Antifa who don't have "pure" motives when it comes to the "cause".
Hello Colour
I did a tineye search and it looks like the photo came from this article. It was the only result listed.
Thanx Jane, like I said, the photo looked recent.
Thanks very much for the link Jane... yet those pictures are of ceremonies/rituals/swearing in type stuff, where traditional garb is to be worn.
We have been hearing about the rise of white nationalists since Obama was elected … more hits on websites .. there are real people that keep a constant thumb on the pulse of these 'hate groups' and yes they are alive and well, but not dominate any longer. Their mastering of intimidation has diminished … KKK numbers are some where between 5 and 8k … Aryan Nations / brotherhood is a high estimate of 20k .. most being incarcerated in prison gangs..
This is a nation of 300 million people, why are white nationals living in so many peoples heads - racism is nasty, ugly, destructive belief system that like a fire, cannot not be stamped out by pouring gas on it.....
I babbled ...
I have to respectfully disagree .. anyone ready for violence is also ready/looking to commit violence (to me it is the nature of the beast) … I cannot see that anyone has the moral high ground .. beliefs may be different, but the tactics (making their messages heard) even if it comes to violence are the same!
I condemn both sides .. they are all extremists....
Because they are the same type of shitbags ANTIFA are
I don’t think you babbled. I actually agree with you. I just wanted to share the origin of the photo.
I do understand that they were wearing the traditional garb(age) due to the ceremonies they were conducting. I’m sure they wanted to play for the documentary cameras too. Pride in their stupidity. Their numbers are minute in comparison to our population. Thank goodness!! I find them and Antifa to be a bunch of violence seeking idiots that don’t deserve any attention.
As to why so many people seem obsessed with them, I wish I knew the answer but I only have my opinion, which is, We are over using the terms nazis, racist, etc... applying it in situations that it doesn’t fit. Labeling people with opposing views as some type of hate filled this or that. Sadly some people seem to be believing it. It’s gotten out of hand. Some people acting out in the very ways they claim to hate when someone else does it. You see it here everyday too. Comments made to other members with the intent to insult, label or twist your words to fit some point they think they made. It gets tiresome. Again just my POV.
side note... I tried to respond earlier but was having trouble with the reply function.
Well, then I guess police officers are looking to commit violence in your view? They are ready for violence, they have guns, mace, bullet proof vests, tasers, handcuffs and, "billy" clubs.
Obviously you know more about Antifa than I do I haven't seen were they are the "same kind of shitbags" that the KKK are, I haven't seen were they ran a car into a crowd of people injuring a bunch of them and, killing one person, I haven't seen were they walked into a church and, shot nine people, I haven't seen were they bombed churches and, a set fire to them and, I haven't seen were they hung people from trees because they dared to look at a woman who wasn't of the same race as them. Can you show me where any of this happened with Antifa?
Thanks again JaneDoe, this time for understanding my frustration.. Seems as of late I find myself preaching, and it is not my intent.
Agreed on the pictures and the traditional garb(age) .. that made me smile actually.. I appreciate your response...
Ooo please stop - the spin is making me dizzy!
Then maybe you should stop spinning.
No they can't.
I know, that's why they started resorting to the one line retorts.
HOLY SHIT! going back 18 years?
How about we stick to 2017 and 2018 we are talking about NOW right? Or at least the last 5 years?
This is only antifa violence it doesn't include Maxine's moonbats harassing people like Candice Owens and shouting White supremacist chants at her (she is black).
Going back not quite one year.........
see 6.1
2
June 2016:
– Protesters jumped on cars, stole hats, fought with and threw eggs at Trump supporters outside a Trump rally in downtown San Jose, Calif. Trump supporters sued San Jose over the violence.
July 2016:
-A Hillary Clinton supporter lights a flag on fire and attacks a Trump supporter in Pittsburgh.
August 2016:
-Anti-Trump protesters attacked pushed, spit on and verbally harassed attendees forced to walk a “gauntlet” as they left a Trump fundraiser in Minneapolis, Minn., and beat an elderly man . Protesters also attacked Trump’s motorcade.
– A Tennessee man was assaulted at a garage sale for being a Trump supporter.
-A Trump supporter in New Jersey was attacked with a crowbar on the street.
September 2016:
-Protesters in El Cajon, Calif., chased and beat up a Trump supporter.
October 2016:
-A GOP office in North Carolina was firebombed and spray painted with “Nazi Republicans get out of town or else.”
November 2016:
-A high school student was attacked after she wrote that she supported Trump on social media. The perpetrator ripped her glasses off and punched her in the face .
-The president of Cornell University’s College Republicans was assaulted the night after Trump won the election.
-Students protesting Trump punched and kicked a Maryland high school student wearing a Make America Great Again hat.
-A high school student was arrested in Florida after he punched a classmate for carrying a Trump sign at school.
-A group of black men in Chicago attacked a white man while raging against Trump.
-Maryland high school students punched a student who was demonstrating in support of Trump, and then kicked him repeatedly while he was on the ground.
-“You support Trump. You hate Mexicans,” a California high school student yelled at a Trump supporter, before viciously beating the girl .
-An anti-bullying ambassador was arrested for shoving a 74-year-old man to the ground in a fight outside Trump tower where people upset over his win had gathered. The woman tied to Black Lives Matter caused the man to hit his head on the sidewalk.
-A Texas elementary school student was beaten by his classmates for voting for Trump in a mock election.
-Two men punched and kicked a Connecticut man who was standing with an American flag and a Trump sign.
December 2016:
-A Trump supporter was beaten and dragged by a car .
January 2017:
-A Trump supporter was knocked unconscious after airport protesters repeatedly beat him on the head.
-A Trump supporter was attacked after putting out a fire started by anti-Trump protesters.
-When Trump protesters encountered a driver with a pro-Trump flag on his car, they surrounded the vehicle, ripped off and began burning the flag, and pounded the car. They also punctured the tires.
February 2017:
-California GOP Rep. Tom McClintock had to be escorted to his car after a town hall because of angry protesters. The tires of at least four vehicles were slashed.
-Protestors knocked a 71-year-old female staffer for California GOP Rep. Dana Rohrabacher unconscious during a protest outside the representative’s office.
-Milo Yiannopoulos speech at the University of California-Berkeley was cancelled after rioters set the campus on fire and threw rocks through windows. Milo tweeted that one of his supporters wearing a Trump hat was thrown to the ground and kicked.
March 2017:
-Masked protesters at Middlebury College rushed AEI scholar and political scientist Charles Murray and professor Allison Stranger, pushing and shoving Murray and grabbing Stranger by her hair and twisting her neck as they were leaving a campus building. Stranger suffered a concussion. Protesters then surrounded the car they got into, rocking it back and forth and jumping on the hood.
April 2017:
-A parade in Portland, Ore., was canceled after threats of violence were made against a Republican organization.
-Fears of violent protests shut down Ann Coulter’s UC Berkeley speech . Campus police had gathered intel on protesters who were planning to commit violence.
May 2017:
– Republican Rep. Tom Garrett, his family and his dog were targeted by a series of repeated death threats deemed credible by authorities.
-FBI agents arrested a person for threatening to shoot Republican Rep. Martha McSally over her support for Trump.
-Police in Tennessee charged a woman for allegedly trying to run Republican Rep. David Kustoff off the road .
-Police in North Dakota ejected a man after he became physical with Republican Rep. Kevin Cramer at a town hall.
-A former professor was arrested after police said they identified him on video beating Trump supporters with a U-shaped bike lock, leaving three people with “significant injuries.”
June 2017:
-James Hodgkinson opened fire on a congressional GOP baseball practice , injuring five, including House Majority Whip Steve Scalise.
-Republican Rep. Claudia Tenney received an email threat that read, “One down, 216 to go,” shortly after the shooting at the Republican congressional baseball practice.
-A man driving a white Malibu reportedly fired several shots at a man driving a truck displaying a “Make America Great Again” flag in Indiana.
Zero dead, a handful of bloody noses and a few sore shins and lot's of whiny losers with bruised egos complaining about how the bad "antifa" punched them and took their swastika or confederate treason flag away. Again, I'm not defending antifa when they use their petty vandalism and fists of rage, they are wrong to do so. The fact remains none of what you list can be compared to right wing murder and violence in the name of conservatives, Christianity and white supremacy that the Trump organization has embraced and welcomed into its base. I'll take the guy punching Nazis in the nose over the white supremacist waving a confederate flag around shouting "Jews will not replace us!" any day.
That’s it? That's what you have, nationwide, for two years?? In a nation of 360 million people?
Are you trying to show that there's lots of left-wing violence... or that there is almost none?
I say, that is weak stuff you're selling. False equivalencies are false on their faces...
Nearly 25 years ago McVeigh and Nichols blew up OKC trying to incite a race war...
Since, it is plain for all to see the immediate threat of violence comes from righties.
Someone being rude to Sarah Huckabee is not equal with trying to incite race wars.
Sure, nothing to see here./s
Most of those aren't political. White supremacy killings aren't right wing. Unless you want to say Islamic terrorism DOES represent Islam and the left wing?
In both cases there are extremist groups who themselves may not commit acts of terror or violence but are the vehicle used to radicalize both white supremacists (many of whom consider themselves devout Christians) and violent extremist Muslims. And while there are likely some non-violent Muslims who are secretly happy about the attacks on western culture or those they believe are "infidels", there are many in conservative Republican circles who are secretly glad when an abortion doctor gets shot in the head or a clinic is bombed. They certainly don't come out and condemn such violence, they often start pointing fingers at irrelevant details or use "whataboutism" to create false equivalency meant to confuse and excuse and get the attention off themselves and their culture of hate towards those they believe are "sinners".
That is actually a fair argument but that would put the Left WAY over the Right in killings so it will never be discussed in those terms and they will never lump Islamist in with Left wing. The point is that the violence is escalating and it is not being condemed, and in many cases it is even encouraged. This is the disturbing trend. I think Trump should have been more vocal about denouncing ALL the violence in Charlottesville as well and put special blame there because he is president and had the podium.
Islamic extremists have far more in common with right wing extremists than they do with any left wing group, even antifa.
Right wing terrorists have bombed clinics. Islamic terrorists have bombed buildings.
Right wing extremists hate gays, liberals and progressives because they consider them sinners who have rejected their God. Islamic terrorists hate gays, liberals and progressives because they consider them sinners who have rejected Allah. Right wing extremists believe their religion is the only pathway to salvation. Islamic extremists believe their religion is the only pathway to salvation. Right wing extremists want to inject their religious beliefs into the government forcing everyone to behave as their faith dictates. Islamic extremists want to inject their religious beliefs into government forcing everyone to behave as their faith dictates. Right wing extremists have committed mass murder using assault rifles. Islamic extremists have committed mass murder with assault rifles. Right wing extremists are almost always misogynists and consider males superior to women. Islamic extremists are almost always misogynists and consider males superior to women.
Right wing extremists are just the other side of the Islamic extremists coin.
So your justification is based on your own feelings and no actual hard numbers? When an Islamic terrorist attacks we are told Islam doesn't need to apologize for an extremist who doesn't represent Islam. Your picking and choosin when to apply your rules based on your own bias. Either Islamic terrorists represent Islam or thy don't. Then right wing terrorism either does or doesn't represent the right wing based on that same application you choose
Those groups who continue to radicalize Muslims should apologize. Not all Muslims are extremists just like not all conservative Republicans are extremists. Those who aren't should speak out strongly against such extremism, whether it's a doctor being shot in the head by a right wing extremist or an Islamic extremist suicide bomber in a market in the ME.
"Either Islamic terrorists represent Islam or thy don't."
They don't, and right wing extremists do not represent most Republicans. But in both cases they should be apologizing and condemning violence when some who claim to be conservative Christians or Muslims commit acts of violence in their name.
Here was my main point, peaceful Muslims and peaceful right wing Christians have more in common with each other than peaceful liberals have in common with peaceful Muslims. And beyond that, extremist Muslims have more in common with extremist right wing Christians than they have with any supposed violent left wing groups.
Right wing Christians deeply dislike and condemn gays, liberals and progressives because they consider them sinners who have rejected their God. Muslims deeply dislike gays, liberals and progressives because they consider them sinners who have rejected Allah. Right wing Christians believe their religion is the only pathway to salvation. Muslims believe their religion is the only pathway to salvation. Right wing Christians want to inject their religious beliefs into the government forcing everyone to behave as their faith dictates. Muslims want to inject their religious beliefs into government forcing everyone to behave as their faith dictates. Even when there's no violence, they are still two sides of the same coin. Their faiths even share a common root as they are both considered Abrahamic religions.
And in both cases, even the peaceful Muslims and peaceful right wing Christians will often admit (when they're being honest), if they believed their God/Allah told them to take up arms to defend their faith by killing and murdering their Gods enemies in the name of their religion, they would. Right wing Christians are not loyal to the United States, they're loyal to their religious beliefs, just like most Muslims. And both have a shared ideology, that of hating liberal progressive western values of equality and freedom. They believe themselves and their faith superior to all others and want all people to be subjected to their Gods rule aka slaves to their Gods whims. In their minds, that's is the only path to peace, to forcibly subject everyone to their faiths doctrine. Once everyone was Christian or Muslim, then the world would be at peace, or so many of them believe. The reality is there are as many rifts and sects among both that even if one religion became dominant in the world, there would still be wars, terrorism, bombings and attacks in the name of one faction or another.
Ok. I think I misunderstood what you were saying at first. I'm not going to argue anything you said. My initial post was just pointing out the attacks listed weren't right wing political attacks. I agree
Until we can speak about violence without assigning it to the left or right we are not going to be able to make progress on a solution. The issue is the crime NOT which political party the criminal is associated with.
All crime should be a problem not just those on the other side.
Russian propaganda
LMAO! Good one! Exposing more truth are they?
Liberal America Has A Political Violence Problem
You dont say ? Perhaps it's because they have NO political power.
Watch after the midterms IF the power imbalance remains the violence from the left may escalate as trump tries to turn America more to the right. Non represented people tend to revolt, protest and or riot when pushed too far too fast, trump and his followers dont know this or dont care ... for now. It seems most seem to think (wishful thinking perhaps ?) that ALL the liberals died or left America or something.
No they just dont have any political power AT THIS TIME.
Keep ignoring that and watch the violence increase. Its all good remember trump won he should be able to do anything he wants ....
Let trump be trump !
Really? We didn’t go violent when democrats took all political power in 1992 and 2008.
But that's DIFFERENT!/S The right had the intelligence to gain power back by getting themselves elected instead of inciting violence!
Who's fault is that?
Ever heard of voting?
When the Dems were in power I don't remember Republicans getting violent how come it's OK for the left?
So you are condoning violence because you can't win elections?
Maybe if they changed their ideology to something people could agree with they could actually win elections and gain power that way. Ever think of that?
Yes if we all were of the same mind all would fall quickly into place. Unfortunately IMO Neither ideology individually would be good for America. If only one idyology controlled everything America would not be the great growing evolving country we are. I wrote this years ago and stand by it today:
.................
America needs a mix of all ideologies:
“United we stand, divided we fall”
Does Anyone remember this is still AMERICA ?
America needs a mix of all, conservatives, liberals and progressives.
A good blend will move America forward at a reasonable speed.
Too many of any one ideology is bad for America.
America needs to move forward as the world progresses.
Too many cons = little to no forward movement.
Too many liberals = move too fast forward.
Too many Independents = well you can’t have too many….lol (I’m one) LOL
Please research ALL candidates before you VOTE
The more Americans that research ALL the candidates for all the offices before they vote and vote for the most qualified, the better our government and country will be.
Not at all, I'm actually trying to prevent violence by sounding the alarm that with one side of America not represented at this time and IF the other side tries to influence the masses too much too fast I predict more violence, unfortunately most republicans don't acknowledge this.
I predict this caviler attitude by the party in power will spark more violence from the unrepresented or under represented Americans before it's over. Compromise is dead, so expect more violence from those with NO power being pushed in direction's they dont want America to go.
WTF do you expect when people have NO power and are being pushed where they dont want to go ? Pool parties ? LOL NOT !! I expect protests and possibly riots and deaths.
IMO: The ones setting America up for even more violence are the people who are ignoring there are still two ideologies alive and well in America.
No violence is acceptable, BUT that doesn't stop people feeling unrepresented and angry from doing it. Thats is the case on both sides, remember all the abortion clinic bombings and abortion Doctors murdered a while back by right wing radicals ? I do.
Until America gets it's shit together and realizes we really are stronger when we unite I dont see much but going further downhill in many ways.
Good Luck America !!
I noticed you completely side stepped my point. Which is, why are you condoning violence instead of trying to figure out how to get them elected and strengthen you base through legal and peaceful means?
Yep Actually I'm perry damn sick of voting. I research ALL candidates from all parties as I vote. Last election it took me over 6 hours to vote. The people I voted for didn't win, this time I dont know that I'll bother spending all that time and energy. I may do what so many others do .. vote straight party line, even though IMO that's exactly how bad politicians get into power over us.
PS: As an Independent I can't stand either party.
I'm not sidestepping anything.
I do all I can to get people to vote. I also try to point out problems as I see them . You know what I believe the problem is if you have read my posts, I also included the solution. Which I dont expect will be taken. So predicting more violence to you is advocating for the same ?
Not in my world.
Once predicted, steps Could be taken to avoid more violence, I dont believe they will be.
As a Libertarian leaning independent THAT HAPPENS TO ME EVERY ELECTION and I have never gotten violent over it. It was especially depressing that no third party got 10% with the worst and most unlikable 2 "establishment" candidates in history so believe me, I understand your frustration..... Sorry but it's still no excuse for violence.
Actually I don't see anywhere that you have explained how to fix it. You just complained the left doesn't have enough representation at this time.
Unless you were suggesting to even the field without elections because the left is having a hard time with that right now?
This sounds like you are trying to condone violence again just because one side didn't so well in the elections. Tell you what I think. I think the Violence and intolerance shown by the left will hurt them badly and your prediction will come true but instead of changing their game plan they will just incite more violence and your attitude towards the situation, and ones similar, are mostly what lead me to believe this.
I can't believe you wouldn't vote, I take it as a personal and civic duty and the few times I wasn't able to vote I felt guilty. I registered as an Independent when I turned 18 and am now no party (decline to state). I've been let down many times but still must go on, and you should too! We need more people like you who pay attention and learn the candidates and issues beyond the bullshit. I may not vote republican at this point in time, but that is due to their actions and lack thereof and they unfortunately have become something I could not support ever, the whole party. When you are disappointed or need to change something, vote. And come here and give us your considered opinion.
Me either and I dont remember MY candidates winning either. We are not everyone, some will get violent if their desires are not at least recognised. Neither you or I can stop it. NO I do not advocate for violence. I do try to explain why the violence happens, if others cant see my points, fortunately that's not my problem.
I apologize that I thought your explanation was condoning it, but don't you see an issue when one side becomes violent when they start to lose their voice? Isn't it a problem when that side decides violence is the way to solve the problem instead of changing some campaign promises or trying to steer the party back away from Socialism and other ideologies that ore obviously killing it?
I probably will I usually do, however I am not in the mood or of the mind to spend 6 hours doing research and voting again this election, My discouragement will probably result in me just voting straight party line this time, easy breezy style, like most people do over and over.
I agree But I think you are assuming everyone is that intelligent, I dont believe all Americans are.
In fact, I've seen many that aren't, even many in power. Many people in this country turn to violence to easily trying to solve problems which of course doesn't usually work anyway.
In the same vein, many people dont recognise the source or the feeling for the need for violence.
But, I think we are actually on the same page going at the same problem from different directions.
Have a good day
Fair enough Steve I enjoyed our discussion.
The fix is in our leaders compromising. NO ONE LISTENS to the fix. I pointed that out earlier.
Yes voting in candidates from all ideologies is very important. Unfortunately when that's not the case both sides now seem to want to act like all their opposition is dead. That's not true, the other side opposes all they can and not much forward movement happens, when not successful some people on both sides seem to turn to violence.
I do not see this changing, because both our politicians and the media gain from the division and shifting imbalance of power and not compromising. We always have people who feel unrepresented some of them become violent. (On both sides)
So, do you offer a realistic solution beside having equally elected ideologies ?
IMO: Compromise is the answer, unfortunately, that's not for many these days. They want it all their way.
So I say, Good Luck America.
Thank you, I enjoyed talking with you as well. Have a good day !
I agree. Both sides condemning ALL violence is a good step forward.
Are you serious? Violence is ok when you lose elections? That should work out well for democracy
that all you got?
There's one small difference...
My photo represents one dead and thirty-five injured.
... while you post cartoons...
Of all those images you only mention the cartoon. HOW TELLING!
One image = one dead, thirty-five injured
Five images (and one cartoon, let's not forget the cartoon!) = how many dead, and how many injured?
Shall we evoke a few church bombings?
So to be clear the number and nature of attacks don't matter. Only the number of dead?
Terrorism experts say GOP shooting highlights disturbing rise in left-wing violence
I think the number of dead is an excellent indicator for "violence".
Dead is kinda sorta the big kahuna, no??
What do you propose?
YUP.
How many dead or even injured in your 'examples'?
SO the truth comes out. You are OK with left wing violence because you think it doesn't kill as many people.
see 6.1.7
You're ducking and weaving...
How many people have died by left-wing violence?
Would you dare compare that with the number of dead from right-wing violence?
The interesting question, which I asked a few days ago , is why is the alt-right trying so hard to gin up left-wing violence, which is essentially nonexistent?
The only plausible explanation I can see is that the right is planning to use deadly violence against the left, and is now trying to prepare the public...
Tell us, 96WS6... is the alt-right preparing an American Kristallnacht ?
If this is true maybe you will have a point. Until then it is a far out opine.
Since you seem to want to discuss who causes the most violence, how about explaining why the left in general, seems to ignore Islamic related violence and terrorism which far exceeds all others combined?
You know I don't see where violence in the Middle East has anything to do with right wing violence in the United States or, supposed left wing violence in the U.S.,
The title of your article seems to confirm what I said above so, can you please explain why you went off the rails in your own article?
Islamic violence was brought up because Bob started talking about groups that cause the most overall violence in America. I also understand EXACTLY why you and Bob don't want to discuss it any further.
Nine Killed in Shooting at Black Church in Charleston
Timothy McVeigh,
Do you really want me to continue?
Do you really want me to continue?
We already went down that road, you must have missed it. See 2.3 BTW ironic that your MEME echos when Obama was president too with little difference LMAO!
Nothing to see there. Again how many dead or injured?
Right Wing violence goes back over a century, just because Obama was president doesn't mean it ended with his election, in fact it escalated because the alt-Right had a temper tantrum over a "Black man" in "their" White House and, then they got the president they always wanted Donald J. Trump.
Why do you want to change the subject?
The far right kills opponents. The statistics are perfectly clear. Why do you insist on talking about other groups? If you are genuinely opposed to violence, then you should be hammering the right, not the left, nor Islam (in America, of course).
So... three times as many victims of right-wing violence as from Islamic violence.
Why are you covering up murder by your "friends"?
deleted
According to Bob, left wingers don't kill people, and then he provides a picture claiming they do.
Interesting.
The numbers, are of course, bullshit. There's a reason no underlying data is available. But it's interesting to see Bob admit left wing extremists do kill people rather than falsely claiming they don't per his usual m.o..
I am not sure how the islamic killing statistics fit into this discussion. However, when looking at that statistic what must be considered is that number is generated from, what, 1 - 3% of our population?
To me, that is the most glaring statistic. I am even thinking the date should go back to the first Towers attack.
As far as the extreme left vs extreme right idiots, I think a more detailed breakdown behind those numbers, than provided by the source is warranted.
When was the last time an Islamic group committed an act of violence in America? Oh yeah, 9/11, the other acts were committed by lone wolves and, an Islamic group took credit for their actions, no real proof that they actually worked for them before the act was committed, however, the rest we can show that they belong to or, wish to belong to alt-Right groups like the KKK or, the Neo-Nazi's or, some militia group that is all American and, white.
Go for it!
IMHO, twenty-five to one is pretty simple...
Anti defamation league? give me a break.
Information on terrorist attacks and the terrorists themselves in the United States is available from the Global Terrorism Database, the RAND Corporation, and other sources.
Terrorists murdered 3,342 people on U.S. soil from 1992 through August 12, 2017. Islamist terrorists are responsible for 92% of all those murders. The 9/11 attacks, by themselves, killed about 89% of all the victims during this time. During this time, the chance of being murdered in a terrorist attack committed by an Islamist was about 1 in 2.5 million per year.
Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists are the second deadliest group by ideology, as they account for 6.6% of all terrorist murders during this time. The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the second deadliest terrorist attack in U.S. history, killed 168 people and accounted for 77% of all the murders committed by Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists. The chance of being murdered in a Nationalist or Right Wing terrorist attack was about 1 in 33 million per year.
Left Wing terrorists killed only 23 people in terrorist attacks during this time, about 0.7% of the total number of murders, but 13 since the beginning of 2016. Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have only killed five since then, including Charlottesville. Regardless, the annual chance of being murdered by a Left Wing terrorist was about 1 in 330 million per year.
Terrorists inspired by Nationalist and Right Wing ideology have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists since 1992. Terrorists with unknown or other motivations were the least deadly. Islamists swamped them all.
There is some ambiguity in counting terrorist attacks by ideology, but only with a minority of deaths. Islamists and unknown/other terrorists are easy to categorize. Left Wing terrorists included communists, socialists, animal rights activists, anti-white racists, LGBT extremists, attackers inspired by Black Lives Matter, and ethnic or national separatists who embrace Socialism. Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists include white nationalists, neo-Confederates, non-socialist secessionists, anti-communists, fascists, anti-Muslim attackers, anti-immigration extremists, sovereign citizens, bombers who targeted the IRS, militia movements, and abortion clinic bombers.
My terrorism research focuses on deaths committed by terrorists because that is the easiest and the least ambiguous metric to analyze the damage committed by terrorism. Attacks could be as minor as a pipe bomb left by a bulldozer that explodes at 2:30 a.m., or as deadly as the 9/11 attacks that killed 2,983 people and caused billions in property damage, so counting the number of attacks by ideology does not reveal much.
As Dave mentioned this is pretty disturbing when you consider they are 2% of the population. Regardless of who is doing what. It doesn't make the right wing numbers anymore comforting or any of them for that matter. The point is the violence is rising and nothing is being done about it. When violence happens on the right I see it condemn more with the possible exception of Charlottesville which is just as disturbing. I don't want that to become the trend either. On the left I have seen an even more disturbing trend of people CONDONING it and this is what the article is about. Let's face it. Water's and similar remarks ENCOURAGE it. Why be in such a hurry overtake the Right wing nut jobs?
I see 0 dead. Some injuries.
Keep dwelling on the past and keep ignoring what is happening in the present and you will overtake the kills the Right wing nut jobs have very quickly.
The 9/11 attacks were not "domestic terrorism". Opening the "international terrorism" can of worms cannot be helpful here. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. American drones blow up civilians all around the world every day, leading many non-Americans to consider the USA to be a "terrorist nation".
International terrorism is a different topic.
The worst modern domestic terrorist attack, by far, was OKC. Right-wing violence.
What are your criteria?
Here is an example why some numbers may not be as straight forward as presented.
Another poster presented a list of right wing extremist violence. I picked 1 to look a little deeper into. In Philly some years back a son vs Mom domestic situation escalated. The Mom called police and informed the 911 dispatcher that her son had guns.
The dispatcher did not warn the police officers about the guns.
Police arrive and the son shoots and kills 3 police officers.
Later during the investigation it was determined the son had connections to extremist right wing nut case web sites.
This was categorized as an act of right wing violence rather than domestic violence in the list.
I am sure of all the thousands of people murdered every year, similar correlations could be drawn for murderers on both sides of the political isle.
I don't have time to research the specifics of each of the thousands of murders, but that was the background behind the first example I grabbed.
I don't know either the perp or the vic. Or the context. Or the consequences.
I'm not dwelling in the past. I'm here in the present.
I will overtake the kills the RWNJs have very quickly?
At least you admit that the RWNJs kill and the Left has never killed anyone.
The RWNJs keep threatening violence all the time on the left. I don't see the Left doing that AT ALL.
I'm not surprised that they upset you.
Given that they also tend to be far right wing extremists I think it fits in very well.
They certainly extreme in one direction or another, but I think in another space/time/dimension.
Fascism on the march....
Mob engages in racist attack on Congressman's wife..
...and the real irony here is that they always show where the true racism lies.
Attempting to illustrate one groups level of violence, as somehow worse than another groups level of violence, is absolutely asinine. All violence is bad, be it physical, psychological and/or verbal.
Trying to defend the actions of groups like antifa, as somehow justified, is a fools errand. Only a matter of time before one of those little dumbasses kills or get killed. Then the other surviving dumbasses will go nuts over that little dumbass and do more stupid shit.
MLK Jr is rolling around in his grave.
In addition. The "bike lock" professor who assaulted 7 people with a bike lock in a sock... got zero time in jail. Can you imagine if a right winger went around doing that the outcry there would be.
the left is blatant with their double standards. You can assault someone if your left wing and it's ok, but words are violence that should end your life. It's ok to be racist towards white people because "reasons". And rape jokes are never funny unless you joke about raping toddlers. Your star should be removed from the walk of fame unless you are a left wing person and rape kids because "reasons" again.
That guy really didn't get jail time?
Well he's WHITE, what the hell did you think would happen? And you are disappointed in that? I think justice should be color blind (it's not), but your side should be celebrating another white guy living the privlege!
Your're the one who just threw race in the mix. Look in the mirror. I think he belongs in jail.
The Neo-Nazis, Skin Heads, White Supremacists and other racist fascist bigoted aholes want to instigate violence in order to claim victim status so they can justify their own calls to violence...
Do not fall for the gop's false grace. What is really happening now is plain for everyone to see.
It is a far right coalition of neo-fascists in American politics who are trying to incite a race war...
Thank you for unwittingly proving the article's point.
Actually this article kind of makes the point that America has a racist justice system, just as the NFL players say. Once again, why the hell are you pissed and surprised the white guy got off easier? You are so upset this guy got probation, which is what a white perp is more likely to get than a black one. So this article outs the white privilege.
I am not really sure what it has to do with a racist justice system or why you think I would condone it. Is the new tactic insinuating racism before we even start a discussion? Are you that certain you will lose?
Do you not get what I'm saying? Evidently not. I was being sarcastic that you would like his sentence, but that sarc didn't negate the very real example of a difference in justice when the perp is white. Understand that you can't have a conversation about things with a narrow parameter, it includes a wider perspective. I can't look at an issue and just talk about one thread, its all connected to the technicolor coat.