By Whom Shall We Be Led - God Or Man?
The God of the Bible is anathema to secular leftists. As evidence of that, we see a troubling rise in anti-Christian and anti-Semitic bigotry from the political left, both at home and abroad. To push the faithful farther out of the mainstream, it is now chic to target Christians and Jews for verbal and physical abuse, and worse in many places, because those who deny the biblical God are in power or rising to take it. Corrupt human power and Divinity are mutually exclusive.As a manifestation of this rising aggression toward Western religious values, atheism and secularism have become cool and trendy among those making the absurd case for the shabbiness of human nature as the planets preeminent force. Though the Founders foresaw the need to constrain such force via the Constitution, secularists have decided that this is their time to rise and forcibly convert the rest of us, or punish or re-educate us. Their influences and voices are becoming louder and angrier, and their attacks more confident. They are empowered by the fact that the dominance of the left in politics, the media, and entertainment means that they are largely free to do or say any offensive or vile thing they wish, since the watchdogs endorse their crimes and make it unpopular and painful for anyone who might oppose them.The denial of the biblical God in America has been a decades-long work in progress. After all, the elimination of a Divine Being from the equation leaves deeply flawed humans as the sole arbiters of what constitutes acceptable human behavior. When one does not have to answer for his cruelties, hatred, bigotry, violence, etc., life becomes a lot more pleasant for the aggressor. Similarly, if there is no God, the treatment of His believers as mindless simpletons is more easily justified, since who else but a backwards hick would believe that something other than man, or random chance, created all that is around us, in measures of complexity and symmetry that humans still have not yet deciphered?Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/03/by_whom_shall_we_be_led_god_or_man.html#ixzz3U0Nghlqj
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If there are no rules imposed by God for human behavior, then morality is a manufactured concept and is purely optional. Truth and honor, as manifestations of morality, are artificial and therefore are silly. What matters are the ends. But with God gone, whose ends are dominant? Why, the lefts ends, of course. But dont worry. If there were a God, they tell us, he would side with them, because they have deigned to label their oppression moral.
This belies another odd fallacy of secularism as the left practices it. If there is no God, from where does the virtue arise that is so often pushed as the leftists justification for tyranny? From leftists, of course. With God out of the way, leftists will decide for us what is best, what crumbs they will allow us to have, what we will be allowed to do. Its not that leftists dont like moral codes being imposed upon mankind. Its that leftists have figured out that it must be a flexible moral code that protects them as they coldly force their preferences on others, against their inferiors will.
This brings us to a fact the left simply cannot abide. Every human is endowed with free will.
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no one is better or more entitled than another. As such, we are likewise endowed by God with the inherent gift of autonomy, with unalienable rights to be free from the false human gods who have denied the actual God in order to replace Him with their own presumed superiority. Deny God, and those truths magically vanish from the discourse, to be replaced with the argument that rights derive from man, and are gifted to man by other men. If there is no God, no soul, no Divine spark, there is no autonomy. Human power is all there is, and the rules are whatever other humans decide they will be for those they intend to rule. At this point, inherent rights can and will be rescinded by man.
And here we find ourselves now. God is the lefts most hated enemy, though they will cynically invoke God to mislead the gullible. They protest that their secularism, and their goals of dominance and control of other humans, are altruistic and are thus Godly. They ignore that their rationalization of altruism is itself an act of tyranny, in which they have made themselves and their values superior to those whom they seek to control or victimize. As they pretend to be motivated by charity and kindness toward society, they advance only those who swear obedience to the power they wield. Oaths are mere formalities, since there is no God who will hold them to account for their infidelity. Honor is foolishness, since only the accomplishment of dominance over those who disagree matters. There is no greater good, no higher call, than power over others.
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Exactly right. Now start with yourself. Why do you persecute leftists? Why do you (by reference to an article) say that, "...secularists have decided that this is their time to rise and forcibly convert the rest of us, or punish or re-educate us." When we don't care what you do, as long as you don't try pushing it on us? And why are you still trying to push religion on us?
I don't persecute anyone. I don't believe that the progressive left doesn't care what I/we do or say. I believe that the American progressive left would ship us of middle/flyover America to FEMA like re education camps at the 1st opportunity should they somehow get the political power to do so. As to pushing religion? What a joke! I seeded an article to a public forum anyone can read and members can respond to in its religion section. To be clear, no one compelled you to read the article and certainly no one forced you to respond to it. If the simple act of seeding an article to a religion section or posting on a message board no one has to read or respond to is pushing religion on you, then that is not my problem. We have freedom of religion in this country. There is no such thing as freedom from religion, as the only way to assure that is to take away all 1st amendment protected religious speech from everyone all the time just so that those who advocate that position can never ever be in anyway even slightly exposed to any religious thought or idea.
Now THAT bothers me. It makes me think of the Seventh Day Adventists or other evangelical cults banging on my door and trying to get me to read their materials. I don't proselytize and I don't want anyone else trying to push their religion down my throat. My golden rule: Don't even try to do unto me what I wouldn't do unto you.
Well, then, I'm happy to be living in China where a person can be "detained" for proselytizing.
It reminds me of the one you posted about the lady lighting candles in your church.
I reject this articlespremise that "left" individuals are viewed as opposing Christians, Jews, morality and the rest of garbage spewed here. I further reject that the seeder, who claims to be my "brother in Christ", would continue to post articles that bring distain upon those of us who profess faith in a triune God. This brings no honor or glory to the God we serve.
To the seeder - How many on NT's read this and think what love is shown here. You are free to post whatever you'd like, I'm just asking where is your compassion, understanding, kindness...you know the fruits of the spirit. Like Matt 7:20- what will YOU be know by?
As a progressive liberal, the fact I have free will allows me the ability to THINK and make choices for myself...no one in the "religious" community is my mouthpiece! I have no problem reconciling the "liberal" agenda with my faith, on the other hand I do have a problem reconciling theultra-conservative agenda with my faith. I am my brothers keeper, have always been and will always be. When life brings one to be a "least of these" for a season, no longer lording over people, humility abounds. The church would do well to fall on it's knees in humility, beg forgiveness not only from God but for the people we are to serve.
Do you agree with the article in substance?
You must, because of this statement: "I believe that the American progressive left would ship us of middle/flyover America to FEMA like re education camps at the 1st opportunity should they somehow get the political power to do so."
Since you agree with the article, you do persecute progressives.
Your paranoia is showing. I don't think I've seen a post by you that is not overly critical and mouth-agape, forehead-slapping afraid of leftists, progressives, liberals. You don't seem to understand what the wordsleftists, progressives, liberals even mean, because it is obvious from your contextual use of them that they all equate with immutable evil.
Look around you and you will see that there are other people in the world who don't think like you but are not evil. If you do not see that, then you are only fooling yourself that there is but one way to be correct.
These might help
NT#1
Myability to choose right and wrong, based on my faith, is always intact regardless of laws/rules that govern the world we live in. The commandment that surrounds my choices in life is the greatest - Love. That commandment has no qualifiers, no rules, just to love.
The article was about the humanist secular progressive left. I know that there still are Bible believing Christians on the left who will be just as saved as Bible believing Christians on the right will be. There are also atheists on the right. I believe in a degree of separation of church and state and generally speaking politics has no place in the pulpit. There is no political test of church membership.
Evangelical Christians of any denomination in no way whatsoever resemble a cult.
I think the families of Jim Jones' followers would disagree.
Not much that I can add to Max's and Feronia comment. They seemed to have covered it all.
I would just like to add, that I follow, Reverend Ike, and the ''Church of What's Happening Now''.
If your old enough and live in Cali, you'll get the reference.
Praise the Lord, and pass the platter.
Guess I missed the articles portraying "left" Christians and the humanist secular conservative right.
Give me a break! Your sanctimonious stance is not of Christ, it appears self-serving at best.
Well, I don't really consider myself to be stupid to have moved to a country that does not permit proselytizing Christianity. As for business, right now I'm doing better and living more comfortably and happier than I would be in Canada where I came from. So your theory, Max, doesn't hold water. Your theory probably only applies to yourself.
I agree with Hal
There is no god.
I remember his reference to his father who was the preacher of "The Church of What was Happening Then."
XX, in American there is a concept of ''freedom of religion''. There is also a concept of, ''freedom from religion''. The arrogance of believing that it is the right of Christians to ''spread the word'' to, what they consider ''non belivers''. The history of them having done this, and how it was accomplished, doesn't exactly shown them to be ''loving their brothers''.
I would refer to Red Jacket's speech to the Christian missionaries in the early 1800's. It was true than, and is true today. Educate yourself XX, and see that the world doesn't revolve around being Christian.
More broken record response here XX.
But true anyway...
I think the families of Jim Jones' followers would disagree.
Now even an old atheist like me can give that a big amen! Started out as an evangelical Christian church and they all killed themselves in Christ's name, just because they were told to. They were evangelical to the last sip of the poison. They all died because they were so evangelical they preached themselves right into it, with some help from their blessed Pastor, Jim Jones. They were the worst of both worlds. An evangelical cult. All religions are cults in the beginning. They just couldn't make the jump from a cult to the mainstream.
RAmen.
From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary
PERSECUTE
Deflection
Looks on topic to me. We have a right to know who is commenting. Complain to a moderator. Mac and Perrie are both here.
XXJefferson#51 wanders all over the place when he or she was posting as C4P, so it's a bit hypocritical for he or she not to admit who were are talking to, as it affects the conversation.
I couldn't agree more. People have a right to use a screen name, but everyone knows who I am and my close friends here know my whole name. Perrie even has my phone number. My first name is Randy and has been for 58 years. What is he/she hiding from?
C4P, this morning I got widespread reports of you spamming the whole front page with your articles, bumping them up to the top by making one or two non-comments. I have told my mods to take screenshots if this happens again and to report it to me. If this happens again, it will be considered a violation of CoC#2.
Sorry, Max, if I misunderstood your comment.
Sure, among themselves.
You are allowed to seed what you are allowed, but if you are bumping up older articles with useless unprompted comments, then you will have a problem. I have instructed my mods to take screen shots of the front page and the comments within the articles, if this happens again.
I am just being clear, and forthright.
I "bumped it up," thank you very much. I WILL post on what and when I see fit if I feel I have something to add. This is a discussion site and some discussions will take time, especially since I am not here all the time.
Yes, Really Jim Jones. Go back to the 1950's you'll see his early "career" began as a Methodist in Indiana.
You Listen to too much Glen Beck stupidity...Re-Education Camp, what stupidity...The re-education is from listening to haters such as Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and the others..that's your re-education..careful what you are putting into your spirit..
Also David Koresh of Waco, Texas in the 1990's...
Somehow just letting it go allows trash unchallenged. On a personal level, I know many on NT view my belief in God as a fairy tale and that's fine with me. Even Hal A. Lujahcan refer to the FSM and we're able to be respectful.I challenge XX as this individual professes to be of the Judeo-Christian faith and yet posts articles belittling people daily....that is NOT Christian. The fact XX readsposts articles fromsources filled with hate anddistainhas this Christian asking, why? It'd be like me reading Penthouse, posting articles from that source and tell everyone how Jesus loves them!
Why don't you meet them on the field of logic, then, instead of spewing vitriol? If they want to answer the logic with logic, that is fine. If they answer with emotional appeals, well, that is fine also. Just keep ones own standards high, and let the world decide who is right each on their own merits and consciousness.
the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas. a conversation or debate about a certain topic. - a detailed treatment of a particular topic in speech or writing.
It is often helpful to remind people what a discussion is, and what the topic is. To wit, see the above definition, and the topic is the article and what one thinks of the same. It is definitely not the metafest that you have been pissing on about.Yep.
I tried to respond to your question last night, after typing my response (Jim Jones)it wouldn't post. I thought it was a NT issuewhich is why I responded today.
If that is in fact true, would you not say that one looks rather foolish for doing so on a discussion site? You should meet them with logic and reason, let the rest slide.
So what? You can believe whatever you want - I don't give a shit.
No, let some hide out of fear. People who have been here for awhile know my real name. I feel no need to reuse it when Mickey Mouse is working so well and for so long. Besides, the use of real names and faces is encouraged here, though it's been backed off from.
Lynne, I respect your beliefs. I'm not a Christian, but as long as Christians don't try to convert those of us who are non Christians, I don't have any problem.
This explains how I feel about the Christianmissionaries, and Christianitymuch better than I do.
The response from the Christian Missionaries is important to read and understand.
Lynne, there is no doubt in any rational mind that the church Jim Jones founded was an evangelical one and was until the end. Some may lie and say different, but those are lies. His was an evangelical christian cult. Like I have said before, all religions begin as cults. His failed to make the leap to the mainstream (mostly because of Jim Jones' drug addictions). That's all.
Also David Koresh of Waco, Texas in the 1990's...
Absolutely true and indisputable.
Your posts are some of the most fucked up garbage I've ever seen. your idea of morality is to preach to everyone that they believe and do like you,
Yep, no doubt.
Re-Education Camp, what stupidity.
It would be laughable if some incredibly stupid people didn't believe it and sometimes violently act on it. Stupidity like this killed both of the Kennedy's and martin Luther King. It's a peculiar form of insanity that happens when one combines too much church with too much politics with the mind of a low IQ.
Thanks Max, sadly the Christian missionaries didn't listen, neither did the U.S. Government. Our religions were outlawed, yes, they were outlawed by the U.S. government. It wasn't until 1978 that we were allowed to have ''freedom of religion''.
So when someone pushes their religion at/on me, I do become very defensive and push back hard.
Not many know that Indian religions were outlawed by the U.S. government. So much for, ''freedom of religion''.
Outlawing them was only the start Max. It's a pretty ugly story.
Kavika,
Thank you for the respect and link.Myfaith cannot begin to atone for thehorrible injustices forced upon everyNative American tribe and their decendants. The Christian faith, like so many others, often slam the door on any doctrine or system that doesn't align withit's system. For me, that's the problem, a "religious system" put forth by man to elevate themselves to righteousness, enlightenment or one step closer thanour fellow manto an Almighty. The Great Spirit of this land, the Abrahamic God, the Jewish Yawah is inclusive of all humanity.
IMO, The love shared amongst us all comes from the one who loved us first.
''religious system, put forth by man''...That is the problem Lynne, man has a tendency to change the ''rules'' so to speak, to fit their own personal needs, power being at the top of the list.
Unfortunately tonal inflection isn't available in the typed word, there is no malice - frustration perhaps, but no malice. As my professed brother/sister in Christ I'm looking for accountability and have been asking thread, upon thread the intent on seeding articles that obviously inflame most individuals.
When one posts from sources that spew hatred for all things not on the currentconservative platter, I question why a person, who is trying to present the gospel, posts them.When aChristian saddles up tohate filled sources and then proclaims biblical truth,the testimony istainted at best and provides fodder harmful to the gospel.
How I wish it weren't true. Been around long enough to see theology, doctrine, and rules change for "church" to remain relevant. Upon entering the political arena the business of church has increased to a powerful monster.
I was referring to the plethora of The American Thinker articles.
No argument from me regarding what's in the bible, its in response to Wayfarer questioning my "Love" towards XX.
I was referring to the plethora of The American Thinker articles.
Now THAT is a hate filled ezine. With a pathological hatred toward the truth.
Scares the crap out of me!
No, Larry Flynt.
Completely in agreement Lynne...