The Southern District of New York federal prosecutors suggested, in a court filing, that President* Trump personally directed Michael Cohen to buy the silence of Trump bimbos for political purposes.

In other words, they are saying Trump committed a felony and an impeachable offense.

film at 11.

Three problems with your assumption:

1) Prosecutors would have to prove that T-Rump knew ahead of time that paying off the bimbos was a crime, and

2) they would have to prove that the payments were made to influence election results rather than as hush money to keep his wife...or anyone else for that matter...from finding out.

3) They have to prove that T-Rump knew that making these payments would violate Campaign Finance Laws.

IOW's, this means they would have to have absolute proof--in writing or recorded records ( otherwise it is one persons word against another) . Secondly, they would have to get his wife to testify that she was aware of the affairs BEFORE the payments were made. You would also have to get his attorney to admit that he informed T-Rump of the possible violation BEFORE he directed the payments to be made.

Good luck with all three.

Personally, I hope he goes down because this big mouth won't go down alone. I have a feeling he will drag the ENTIRE U.S. government down with him for their corruption!

What? So now if one doesn't know something is a crime, they can be excused for it?

Two out of your three is basically just pleading ignorance. I wonder if I ever got into trouble if pleading ignorance would prove innocence?

What? So now if one doesn't know something is a crime, they can be excused for it?

Yes. They have to prove that it was his intention to sway the results of the election. If they can't, then he gets away with it. They also have to prove that he knew that if his actions were done in order to influence the election, it was a criminal offense. The language of the actual law is so broad, every candidate could be charged under it.

Yes. They have to prove that it was his intention to sway the results of the election. If they can't, then he gets away with it. They also have to prove that he knew that if his actions were done in order to influence the election, it was a criminal offense. The language of the actual law is so broad, every candidate could be charged under it.

Well, I doubt every candidate can be charged with it and, in Trumps case I don't believe he can claim that defense, he has tried to claim he knew nothing of the payments to McDougall or, Daniels but, that defense has been killed several times by evidence that forced Cohen to admit to making the payments and, then providing a tape that has Trump telling Cohen to make the payment and, them discussing how to do it so it doesn't come back to Trump, that alone kills the idea that Trump thought there was nothing wrong in it.

criminal-law.freeadvice

Yes. They have to prove that it was his intention to sway the results of the election. If they can't, then he gets away with it. They also have to prove that he knew that if his actions were done in order to influence the election, it was a criminal offense. The language of the actual law is so broad, every candidate could be charged under it.

Actually, a review of the citations in the Cohen's charging documents show that intent is NOT a predicate. Here's one of the charges as a reference:

18 U.S. Code, Section 2: (a)Whoever commits an offense against the United States or aids, abets, counsels, commands, induces or procures its commission, is punishable as a principal.
(b)Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal.

Note that intent is NOWHERE in either subsection. Section 2 [b] in particular is relevant since 'Individual 1' 'willfully caused an act to be done'. 

We have to recognize that at NO TIME has Trump dissed the CFO of the Trump organization even though he testified to the Grand Jury after negotiating a limited immunity deal. From the filing, it's clear that the CFO authorized the payments to Cohen and conspired to fraudulently document those payments as 'legal fees'. ANY OTHER EVP, when finding out that the CFO filed fraudulent financial documents WITHOUT his knowledge, would have fired that CFO forthwith. IMHO, it says volumes that Allen Weisselberg is STILL the CFO of the Trump org. 

What? So now if one doesn't know something is a crime, they can be excused for it?

Worked for Hillary.

As the saying goes....Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Worked for Hillary.

What crime was she convicted of? 

It's true that there is a defense that essentially claims that an individual "did not know he was in violation of campaign finance laws" …

HOWEVER …

• the manner in which the payment was made to Stormy Daniels

• the Bank Fraud and Money Laundering

• the audio tape with Trump directing Cohen to make the payment including the reference to  Longtime Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg engaged in some shady (and possibly illegal) accounting in order to conceal Trump’s involvement in the payments

• the timing of the payment with regard to the election

• the payment for mistress' stories and then killing the publication of those stories

• the several versions of the payments given by Trump

• the many lies regarding the payments

All of these combined and the "consciousness of guilt" they manifest makes it unlikely that Trump's lawyers would convince a judge or jury that "he did not know he was in violation of campaign finance laws" …

(b)Whoever willfully causes

This is where "intent" comes into play in the statute. If he didn't know it was a crime, he can't willfully commit the crime. Keep in mind that T-Rump is claiming Co-Hen is lying. The Dem's will have to actually bring evidence to the table that is indisputable that would involve an exchange between the two parties which shows that T-Rump knew this would be a violation of campaign financing law.  The fact that it was made through a shell company won't be enough because he can offer the explanation that he didn't want it to be traceable back to him because he wanted to keep it away from his wife. Apparently, he's made these types of payments before; like in 2014.

Like I said previously though, I do hope they nail his ass to a wall because he will drag the entire establishment down with him. If it does happen though, I can foresee the next President handing out a big blanket pardon and a grant of immunity to that whole rats nest we call D.C. before any investigation is even undertaken. These crooks will protect themselves while ousting the Outsider in  any way they have to.

What crime was she convicted of?

None. Because she didn't "willfully" break the law regarding improperly storing State intel.  Did you miss Comey's explanation of why they wouldn't prosecute her even though what she did was illegal???

Ignorance of the law is no excuse

Depends on how the law is written. If speeding laws included the word "willfully speeding" in them, it wouldn't be the cash cow it is for local and state governments...and they wouldn't spend all that money trying to enforce them either!

Worked for Hillary.

No, it didn't. She didn't get charged because there were too many holes in the prosecution. 

Too much precedent from previous admins.

And although ignorance was pleaded, it wasn't the defining factor.

In any criminal prosecution mens rea has to be established and they couldn't.

Hence the statement that prosecutors wouldn't bring charges that they couldn't win.

If they did and lost, how many Republicans would be in the line waiting to get their balls sued off?

This is where "intent" comes into play in the statute. If he didn't know it was a crime, he can't willfully commit the crime.

Nope. I'll post that part of the statute AGAIN:

b)Whoever willfully causes an act to be done which if directly performed by him or another would be an offense against the United States, is punishable as a principal.

It doesn't say anything about KNOWING it was a crime. It's about WILLFULLY causing an act , which if performed, will be an offense. 

As I have said before, it would be great if one of y'all would learn how to read a statute...

The tape proves that Trump was talking about the Campaign when deciding how to pay off Daniels. National Enquirer's publisher testified about the conspiracy to 'catch and kill' stories about Trump during the CAMPAIGN. There are emails, wire transfers and NDA's that evidence that conspiracy. 

Oh and ignorance of the law is NOT a defense. 

The Dem's will have to actually bring evidence to the table that is indisputable that would involve an exchange between the two parties which shows that T-Rump knew this would be a violation of campaign financing law.

That's funny because NOWHERE in the charging document does the government claim that Cohen 'KNOWINGLY' violated campaign finance law. That leads me to believe that the Judge did not require such a finding to accept a guilty plea from Cohen. So WHY do you think that such a finding would be required to prosecute Trump for the same crime? 

That leads me to believe that the Judge did not require such a finding to accept a guilty plea from Cohen.

Intent is not required to break campaign finance laws. What these half wits are getting all confused about is that they can't wrap their head around how the statute regarding transmitting classified emails via a personal email server requires intent for it to be a crime, but paying money to keep someone quiet during a campaign is illegal whether you knew it was illegal or not. Trump and Cohen knowingly paid off the porn stars, they knowingly did it during the campaign with the intent of keeping the stories of adultery suppressed so that the candidate had a better chance at winning an election, thus making any money paid to those porn stars a campaign donation. Whether they knew it was illegal doesn't make a lick of difference. The only reason Trump isn't currently under indictment is the undefined laws regarding indicting a sitting President which States AG's can't do and most believe it would take impeachment before he can be indicted. There's even debate as to whether the Presidential protections delay the statute of limitations on campaign finance laws since he can be indicted as soon as he leaves office as long as it's still within the statute but would remaining in office another 6 years mean he couldn't be prosecuted for his crimes later.

The only reason Trump isn't currently under indictment is the undefined laws regarding indicting a sitting President which States AG's can't do and most believe it would take impeachment before he can be indicted.

I've actually seen a few legal eagles say the NY COULD indict Trump. The DOJ memo doesn't cover STATE AG's.

There's even debate as to whether the Presidential protections delay the statute of limitations on campaign finance laws since he can be indicted as soon as he leaves office as long as it's still within the statute but would remaining in office another 6 years mean he couldn't be prosecuted for his crimes later.

I've heard that the Feds could file an indictment under seal that would freeze the statute of limitations on the charge...

I've heard that the Feds could file an indictment under seal that would freeze the statute of limitations on the charge...

I think this would need to be challenged in court.  I've also heard  (from Napolitano) that if the President is re-elected then a sealed indictment could time out due to the statute of limitations.  As none of us are lawyers and from what I've seen all lawyers have their own opinions on outcomes,  this would likely have to go to court to be worked out.

I think this would need to be challenged in court. 

What I think needs to be challenged in court is the OLC memo saying that a POTUS cannot be prosecuted while in office...

I understand what  you are saying but I don't agree with it. The world is such a fast moving piece of work that we as a country cannot afford to have the president tied up with defending himself in court while the needs of the country are being pressed. IMO if the president must be prosecuted then he must first be removed from office and the new president must be sworn in to continue the work of the country.

The word "suggested" does not equate to fact or proof and is tantamount to sheer conjecture that would not hold up in a court of law. It would be thrown out of court.

Pretty sure that Trump has committed many felonies that he has yet to pay for.

Possibly, but it still has to be proved without doubt that he committed any while in office. Until then, like it or not, according to the law he is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

He deceives voters every time he opens his mouth.

Now, the question is, what will Congress do about it?

I believe the tv lawyers also said that Mueller suggested , in a separate filing in court today, that Cohen was coached to lie to the Senate committee.

I wonder who the mysterious person who wanted to "coach" Cohen on that was? lol

If the Republicans have any brains left they will begin to pressure Trump to resign.

He hasn't been convicted yet. Just because a prosecutor makes a claim doesn't mean a person isn't innocent until proven guilty. 

He hasn't been convicted yet. Just because a prosecutor makes a claim doesn't mean a person isn't innocent until proven guilty. 

True, now remember that the next time you want to reference Hillary Clinton.

At best, even if he is not indicted while he is president, Trump will lose support. There are a lot of people who will not vote for someone who would have been indicted were he not in the oval office. It is impossible to imagine him being re-elected. He should quit and give his party a chance in 2020.

Oh wait a minute. He's not really a Republican.

claim doesn't mean a person isn't innocent until proven guilty. 

Dean, they wouldn't make the claim unless they were 100% sure they have trump by the short hairs. 

He's not really a Republican.

That will be the line when trump is impeached. "But he is a RINO!!!". "He used to vote democrat!!!!" Yea, they will pull out ALL the excuses. My favorite will be...

"But.......But.....But........Hillary's emails!!!!!!!!" 

Trump will lose support. There are a lot of people who will not vote for someone who would have been indicted were he not in the oval office

I wish I could believe that John but his base doesn't seem to care what lies he tells and what laws he breaks.  They don't care about the country.

They don't care about the country.

PJ, I agree with the first part this part I disagree with. 

I think they do care about the country But I think their some of thinking is flawed in who and perhaps how that should can make it happen. Plus, Remember, trumps a trickster, a manipulator and basically a con man and victims come in all shapes and sizes. 

I also believe both ideologies (which is what drives with different party to a large extent) beieve that a great america is different that the other ideologies versions of a great america.

IMO: Both want a great america it's just not the same america they want.

That's a problem and always has been, Its also a positive. I'll repost this: It's easier than re explaining where I want to go, I wrote it years ago:

...........................................................

America needs a mix of all ideologies:

        “United we stand, divided we fall”

Does Anyone remember this is still AMERICA ?

America needs a mix of all, conservatives, liberals and independents.

A good blend will move America forward at a reasonable speed. 

Too many of any one ideology is bad for America.

America needs to move forward as the world progresses. 

Too many cons = little to no forward movement.

Too many liberals = move too fast forward.

Too many Independents = well you can’t have too many….lol (I’m one) LOL

Please research ALL candidates  before you VOTE

The more Americans that research all the candidates for all the offices before they vote and vote for the most qualified, the better our government and country will be.

.

PS: I consider myself {a pragmatist, realistically moderate,  a independent and progressive Deist with both some conservative and liberal tendencies, depending on the issue or subject.}

Hard to pigeon-hole that one. Drives me nuts sometimes, but I’m not. My mother had me tested.

Although it has been suggested, I be retested. At this point, I see no point of it.  lol

..................................................................

 United we stand, devided we fall, each of ours choice , still.   .. for now.

Remember, trumps a trickster, a manipulator and basically a con man and victims come in all shapes and sizes. 

I don't see it.  Trump is simply not that bright or savvy.  I cannot believe he's such a great manipulator or trickster that people couldn't figure it out.  I mean, they were shown how he had cheated people out of their hard earned money.  I could go on and on about the proof that was produced BEFORE he was elected and yet these people stilled voted for him.  These people have to be more stupid than Trump.  I didn't think that was possible.

I also believe both ideologies (which is what drives with different party to a large extent) beieve that a great america is different that the other ideologies versions of a great america.

I agree with this statement.  One ideology is warped and racist and the other ideology is gullible and weak.

You're definitely an optimist.  I no longer am after this presidential election.  Now I just want the country to implode.  It's riddled with racists, misogynists and warped Christians.  They have black souls and the country needs to be cleansed.  

It's riddled with racists, misogynists and warped Christians.  They have black souls and the country needs to be cleansed.  

How ? 

Mass murder is illegal.

Individuals need to be dealt with on an individual basis and I doubt we ever are free from stupidity, racists, misogynists or warped religious fanatics. We do not however have to pay them much attention or give them or their ideologies any credence.  

Now I just want the country to implode.

That's paramount to throwing the baby out with the bath water, A 241 year old baby many of us still love. Although it may come t that if we keep going as we are, I don't want that to happen. 

Trump is simply not that bright or savvy.  I cannot believe he's such a great manipulator or trickster that people couldn't figure it out. 

trump descending his golden staircase.. what a spectacle..... never be president !!!! 

Two years later, I also cannot believe he's such a great manipulator or trickster that people couldn't figure it out. 

So I stopped underestimating this man. 

Plus, Remember, trumps a trickster, a manipulator and basically a con man and victims come in all shapes and sizes.

Yet you and I both know that not one of them would willingly admit that they have been victimized. 

So I choose to hold them responsible for their acquiescing to the travesty that the rest of us have been decrying all along. Each and every one of them need to man up and admit that their sycophancy was to a man that anyone with a modicum of cogency knew was a con man. 

IMO: Both want a great america it's just not the same america they want.

First of all, there are more than just 'both. The FACT is, Trumpism is an ideology unto itself. The GOP is under water and desperately attached itself to the ship of Trump. Now that the Trump ship is sinking, the GOP has no compass. 

The GOP isn't sufficiently bat shit crazy for the base and the bat shit crazy base elected Trump but that ship is sinking. The GOP has been desperately trying to keep their base from going off the deep end on the right since 2010 and they have failed miserably. 

We DO want a different America than the neo-nationalists, it's the America that we have all been brought up to respect and that we all have high expectations of...

Are you kidding?  His Kool Aid intoxicated followers will support him no matter what.

Plus, Remember, trumps a trickster, a manipulator and basically a con man and victims come in all shapes and sizes.

Yet you and I both know that not one of them would willingly admit that they have been victimized. 

I agree that none would admit to the victim status. yet They were pretty much promised the moon. Over and over all that's needed is they vote for him, All the problems would be addressed.. instantly !!  

So I choose to hold them responsible for their acquiescing to the travesty that the rest of us have been decrying all along. Each and every one of them need to man up and admit that their sycophancy was to a man that anyone with a modicum of cogency knew was a con man. 

Yet you and I both know that not one of them would willingly admit that they have been victimized. yeah.

Trumpism is an ideology unto itself.

I fully agree, in fact I'd say it has many traits of cultism. 

The GOP is under water and desperately attached itself to the ship of Trump. Now that the Trump ship is sinking, the GOP has no compass. 

Agree again,although I believe it was a join effort, Trump needed the Gop and the GOP was devided by the tea party so it was just the logical party to concur. Be glad it was isn't the democratic party, trump wouldn't have cared. Hell he switched parties to do the take over even.

This president evidently studied, idolized and acts likes somewhat like a king or dictator the boss is he he is the boss.  He knew what he was doing, he's studied and planned and worked on this for how many years ? A whole bunch way before this run and success.

To me the republican party was basically hijacked but they did little to protect it. That where and what I blame on the republicans, I found it ironic that over and over they told us they would protect the nation and they didn't even protect their own damn party ... sad. so I am no longer a republican. I am now registered as an independant. 

We DO want different Americas...

I know.

and I want a united one, But, I kinda doubt any of us gets our wish soon. 

Wrong, we care about the country which is why we support him even if it means another civil war.

"But.......But.....But........Hillary's emails!!!!!!!!

They've already trotted that one out, according to Comey.

even if it means another civil war.

Threats?

Now I just want the country to implode. 

That's insane! 

The threat is from the left. I’m merely affirming that we will not allow the Democrats to destroy this country without a fight

LFOD,

I keep on saying that there is a big difference between "The Left" and "Democrats". you seem not to mind insulting a huge part of the country many of who served this country. 

If you are talking about "Civil war" you do not support this country. You support your view of this country and somehow miss that governance of this country has always been bi-partisan. 

.......Now I just want the country to implode.  It's riddled with racists, misogynists and warped Christians.  They have black souls and the country needs to be cleansed.   

Could you please give an opinion on this statement? is that a support of bipartisanship in this country? or is it a statement of the desirability of political religious ethnic cleansing from the opposition.....

I can understand the civil war question, what about the genocide question?

Hell he switched parties to do the take over even.

That isn't necessarily true. New York is controlled by Democrats and that simple fact explains why Trump mostly donated to Dems, as a way to curry favor with the 'ruling' party in the state he conducts most of his business. 

I found it ironic that over and over they told us they would protect the nation and they didn't even protect their own damn party

Quite an insight. I only wish more on the right of center would recognize that. 

I know.
and I want a united one, But, I kinda doubt any of us gets our wish soon.

The sad fact is, 'WE' have rarely actually been united. Only during actual war time have we ever had a modicum of unity and in all cases, prior to actually getting into war, we were the MOST divided. Perhaps for the immediate years after WWII, we were close but there WERE underlying divisions in our culture.

We had minority men coming home from war who were forced to deal with the segregation and oppression that they had left here at 'home'. We had a huge number of women of all races, who were an integral part of the war effort building war machines, who were expected to go back into 'women's work'. Both of those facts lead to the next generation's civil rights campaigns to come. 

Wrong, we care about the country which is why we support him even if it means another civil war.

So you and your friends love this country SO MUCH that you would kill your fellow citizens if Trump is impeached or defeated. 

That doesn't sound like love of country, that sounds like love of ideology. 

That isn't necessarily true.

Seems lots of people have it wrong then:

bing

The sad fact is, 'WE' have rarely actually been united.

While I agree, I also never remember us being as divided as we are at this moment. 

And I think the trend will continue.  But I dont see it making America greater. 

That doesn't sound like love of country, that sounds like love of ideology. 

This doesn't either....

.......Now I just want the country to implode.  It's riddled with racists, misogynists and warped Christians.  They have black souls and the country needs to be cleansed.

Sounds to me like an distinct affinity to hate..... and that is from a member on your side of the aisle... Can you give us your opinion of that statement from your side?

bwah ha ha. the teavangelical civil war will be neutered the first sunday after it starts. people that protect elected officials proven to be felons are aiding and abetting them, and are therefore complicit in their acts. Obey the laws or pay the penalties.

Puh-lease.  I never spoke about genocide.  I'm talking about mental illness.  

Sounds to me like an distinct affinity to hate..... and that is from a member on your side of the aisle... Can you give us your opinion of that statement from your side?

I can give you my opinion since it's my statement.  I do hate Trump and I question the mental heath of those who continue to support him.  I mean, seriously....how stupid can a person be that they still believe Trump is good for the country.  

But characterization matters sweetheart.....

And your characterizing those you hate as needing to be "cleansed" from our society. A lot of leaders have held to the "cleansing" of their societies of the vulgar people they hate.....

Don't need to name them cause so many already have..... but they pretty much do cover most of the mass murderers of history......

Christians, Muslims, Jews, Blacks, Indians, Japanese, Chinese, Mormons and that is just here in the good old US of A, much less around the world.

Characterization DOES matter......

Well........when you put it that way I guess I can see how my words could be misconstrued.  I will be more careful in the future.   

They've already trotted that one out, according to Comey.

I saw that last night... I about pissed myself laughing.. 

It reeks of desperation, doesn't it?

The threat is from the left.

What is the threat, specifically? 

The 60's were pretty fucked up Steve...

Enforcement of the law as outlined by the Constitution, apparently.

The 60's were pretty fucked up Steve...

That's true but I think the country was at odds over many fewer issues. Now hardly anyone agrees on anything at all. Both parties want full control of everything and the politicians know they only need slightly over half to control the whole. I see no end in sight and more and more division almost daily. So It's hard to be optimistic much these days.  We have protests almost constantly and I doubt it takes much to be back to having riots and city blocks on fire again. 

Makin America great sure seems silly to me under these conditions. But to each their own

Can you give us your opinion of that statement from your side?

You seem to have an issue with the statement you quoted. You've asked both Perrie and I to opine about it. Funny thing is though, you didn't reply to the comment in the thread. I have to wonder why you'd ask others about it but avoid actually commenting about it yourself or questioning the author...

BTFW, I'll refrain from questioning you about what your 'side' posts and you refrain questioning me about what my 'side' posts.

Deal? 

I have to wonder why you'd ask others about it but avoid actually commenting about it yourself or questioning the author...

{chuckle} oh ye of little vision.....

The purpose of my posting, was made, received by whom it was meant for, and responded to quite satisfactorily......

You and Perrie served as the foil so to speak.......

I do believe that Perrie would understand the posting method used and the why?

Most I believed that read it understood the posting style and the point of it.

I'm surprised you didn't.

But that's ok.....

BTFW, I'll refrain from questioning you about what your 'side' posts and you refrain questioning me about what my 'side' posts. Deal? 

Yeah, but just one question, did you really need to put the "Fucking" in there?

Now hardly anyone agrees on anything at all.

True that. At least during other times of division, we all agreed on the facts when we saw them...

At least during other times of division, we all agreed on the facts when we saw them...

Yep times have changed. Now we are instructed from the top not believe our own eyes and ears.

{chuckle} oh ye of little vision.....

Oh ye of great deflection...

The purpose of my posting, was made, received by whom it was meant for, and responded to quite satisfactorily......

Please refrain from commenting to me as a proxy.

You and Perrie served as the foil so to speak.......

Why would you want to insult us in such a way? 

I do believe that Perrie would understand the posting method used and the why?

I don't understand THAT 'posting style'. Is that a statement or a question? 

Most I believed that read it understood the posting style and the point of it.

Oh I understood the style and the point just fine. 

Yeah, but just one question, did you really need to put the "Fucking" in there?

Yes. 

voted up

Went right over your head.....

And you weren't in any way a proxy, it was aimed directly at your comment as it was at Perries....

No insult, it was directly asking for your input in relation to your comment to another member.

On one hand you do not understand but then you do....

[deleted]

Enforcement of the law as outlined by the Constitution, apparently.

Exactly. I think there are those on the right that seriously think they only have to adhere to the parts of the constitution that they agree with. 

removed for context

Seriously ? C'mon, hyperbole much ? 

Seriously ? C'mon, hyperbole much ? 

Nope, seriously.....

I'm not given to hyperbole Pat, you know that....

And yeah it is what we have been thinking about since the deplorable comment made by Hillary and picked up and repeated by almost every braindead follower of hers since....

The more and more we hear about how those individual would like to do away with us... the more we think about it...

I mean at some point one has to take them at their word right? pretty much we are hearing it every day. We would be fools not to take countenance of it.....

And I know the poster of the cleansing statement didn't mean it that specific way, so I didn't aim it at her.....

And when I mention we I'm not speaking about people on the board.... I'm speaking about people right here in our own neighborhood.... Real live people....

This is why I've said several times that people are getting nervous about the hate speech being tossed around by the other side.

We are taking notice out here in the real world...

Was the post that was the topic of this discussion hyperbolic as well?

I didn't see that quote. It was made yesterday as opposed to today so I didn't notice it. No, I don't approve of genocide and I don't approve of civil war. For good or for bad, this is a unified country, and I would like it to stay that way. 

During the 2016 campaign Donald Trump retweeted posts by white supremacists at least a dozen times.

It is possible he's just an idiot, that is true, but it is also possible that he , or the person posting those tweets in his name, was signaling to the "deplorables".

I don't even read all the comments on my own seeds anymore because they almost always go off into off topic and too much repetition, but I looked at this part of this one and see people "defending" Trump by claiming that "the left" wants to "cleanse" the nation of the right.

How about we get rid of Trump, who is a cancer on our society?  This shit has gone on for 3 1/2 years now, and 7 1/2 or 8 years if we go back to his birther idiocy.

If we have to have a "civil war" in order to purge our society of the PLAGUE of Trumpism, well then, let's go.

We'll all be old and dead before "conservatives" and Republicans work up the nerve to do the right thing.

I told everyone on this forum 2 1/2 or 3 years ago that this was never going to end until Trump is gone. He is not fit to be president of the United States, and the more the right and "moderates" ignore that fact the worse it is going to get.

I presume Mueller is doing everything he can to find evidence that willl force Trump out of office. He's not doing so because he is a Democrat, he's doing so because he is an American patriot who wants to do his part to end this fricking national nightmare.

Went right over your head.....

Right, you're such a deep thinker NWM.../s

And you weren't in any way a proxy, it was aimed directly at your comment as it was at Perries....

Utter Bullshit. Your comment has no bearing on my reply to LFOD. 

No insult, it was directly asking for your input in relation to your comment to another member.

Using someone as a foil is indeed an insult. 

On one hand you do not understand but then you do....

Nope, I've understood your ulterior motive all along. Bad Form...

If we have to have a "civil war" in order to purge our society of the PLAGUE of Trumpism, well then, let's go.

I'm sorry, but I am not on board with this whether it comes from you or LFOD. I don't care how anyone feels about the president, this republic was set up to be bigger than any one man. A point you seem to totally dismiss. 

I'm sorry, but I am not on board with this whether it comes from you or LFOD. I don't care how anyone feels about the president, this republic was set up to be bigger than any one man. A point you seem to totally dismiss. 

Do not put me in the same breath with far right nut jobs. It is a personal insult. Give yourself a COC violation.

Amazing...

I write a post and all you get from it is an imaginary insult. 

Do not put me in the same breath with far right nut jobs.

You're posting about civil war.  Tell us all how that's not nutjobbery.

If we have to have a "civil war" in order to purge our society of the PLAGUE of Trumpism, well then, let's go.

Any Town USA

Or, we can support the Republic the Framers of our Constitution put in place.

Unfortunately for the people in the vid, fighting is resuming. Once you start, it's hard to stop.

I wrote a post and all you got from it is you think I sound like Live Free Or Die.

Why are you not also pointing this out to PJ, who has been openly advocating Civil War for about 2 years now?  Is it just because LFOD pisses you off or is there some other reason?

It takes a large amount of imagination to be able to remain vehemently butthurt 24x7.  That kind of outrage has to be forced and stroked to keep it going all the time.

We are already in a civil war. There are other forms of war besides physical violence.

PJ has concluded that many if not most Trump supporters are not reasonable people. Trump lies to all of us many times every day. He is a crook. He is psychologically disturbed. He is immoral. He is an ignoramus, literally.

And yet there is an element that will support him no matter what. Obviously this is a situation that lends itself to "war".

Why are you not also pointing this out to PJ, who has been openly advocating Civil War for about 2 years now?  Is it just because LFOD pisses you off or is there some other reason?

She said it to John @ 3.2.50 and when I pointed out PJ's statement @ 3.2.21 she responded thusly....

I didn't see that quote. It was made yesterday as opposed to today so I didn't notice it. No, I don't approve of genocide and I don't approve of civil war. For good or for bad, this is a unified country, and I would like it to stay that way. (@ 3.2.49)

She has been consistant in her rejection of any calls to war......

That is the big difference, we are warning of civil war if their intents come true, they have been advocating civil war to get rid of what they view as an impediment of their vision implemented......

PJ, I will defend her here, she used a term that I'm sure she didn't realize how it could be interpreted in the context she used it and accepted my explanation of how it appeared and apologized for that.... So she gets and deserves my respect for her stand up position despite her views......

I will always warn that there are people in this country who will not sit idly by and allow the other side to abuse them in any color of law if they manage to get power. It is the point of the 2nd amendment, and all their biliousness is proving the wisdom of having it every day......

Of course they don't see it that way...... their mountain of trash campaign has become a mountain of hate campaign against all Americans that disagree with them. All I want is for them to recognize the history of the people in this nation in a practical sense, we may not win, but we are not going to go idly by either.....

Mass murder is illegal.

Now you're just sounding like a democrat. /s

Gary,

Again for the second time in this thread, PJ posted after I made my comment to LFOD, so how could I post to her?  That would be a pretty neat trick. Here is my earlier post:

thenewstalkers

And please stop trying to guess what my motivation is. I have said over and over to many members that I am opposed to a civil war in this country. I find the whole concept disgusting. 

As long as "conservatives" or libertarians support Donald Trump there will be no "peace". It is truly a shame some of you cannot understand that. He is the most disgraceful national politician in the nation's history.

Trump had or developed an interesting strategy. Be as outrageous, dishonest , and ignorant, as you can every day, 24 hours a day. Then the people will become complacent as to the damage being done to the nation because they will come to know no other alternative to the daily barrage of idiocy, lies and nonsense. It becomes a "new normal".

PJ, to her credit, rejects that, as do many of us.

The idea that some of our "conservative" members are suggesting, that it is wrong to oppose Trumpism in a vocal way because it is "divisive" is absurd.

I told you and everyone else here three years ago that eventually Trumpism would lead to Trumps supporters having to be confronted and opposed and defeated in the court of public discourse. It is an ongoing thing that is inevitable. They brought, and bring , it on themselves by supporting someone who is OBVIOUSLY  and CLEARLY unfit to lead this country.

This article isn’t about me.  STOP discussing me in an open forum. If you have an issue with the moderation reach out off line. 

Here is a good example of a Trumpster defending him , in this case by attacking law enforcement that is bringing Trump's illegal and immoral behavior to light.

Right wing media like Fox and Friends is a fountain of disinformation, which is surely why it is Trump's favorite show.

-

Donald Trump is not a victim. He is the freaking perp.

But you would let the head repub in charge do it?

we care about the country which is why we support him even if it means another civil war.

Let's get this in clear terms once and for all!

• Is a war that involves firearms in your vision of a civil war

• If so, if I specifically state that I do not support Trump, am I or members of my family potential targets of violence and possible death?

Don't hedge! Spell it out. I'm real tired of you boys who continuously imply (threaten) "war" if the politics/ideology don't go your way. So what the fuck is it? Are you intending violence in your civil war?

I presume Mueller is doing everything he can to find evidence that willl force Trump out of office. He's not doing so because he is a Democrat, he's doing so because he is an American patriot who wants to do his part to end this fricking national nightmare.

Thank you for the laugh. Mueller, and Comey, are Establishment hacks. They will work for either party; and either party will employ them. They will always have a job so long as they don't bite the hand that feeds them. Trump is no Establishment- he broke the rules by winning the election. He is supposed to be paying the Establishment- not taking/making money from it. 

If Comey had gone after Hillary with 1/2 the tenacity Mueller is after Trump; then Trump wouldn't be President.  The Clintons would be fighting for the legal lives; and Trump would have lost the election to whatever replacement the Dems put forward. Chances are they would have been less toxic than Hillary- and might have understood how the electoral college works.

But Mueller and Comey American patriots- please.

Try to wiggle out of the facts about trump?  That's very typical of repubs

Muller is a republican.  Good grief try to keep up

He hasn't been convicted yet. Just because a prosecutor makes a claim doesn't mean a person isn't innocent until proven guilty. 

Funny how that doesn't seem to apply to Hillary Clinton.

the question is, what will Congress do about it?

Use it to get more things they want.

Of Course that will also be added to the dedit. 

Nothing

People in America break the law everyday and go unpunished. 

Somehow I have a feeling that will be the case here as well. 

I'm not saying this is  a good thing, It's Not. But do I see trump losing his job over any of this. NO

What we have is corrupt system full of corrupted humans. so, I don't expect, uncorrupt results.  

I also don't expect much too change anytime soon. 

Divided WE fall.  Slowly but surely. 

People in America break the law everyday and go unpunished. 

True. But shouldn't we hold the POTUS to a higher standard? 

True. But shouldn't we hold the POTUS to a higher standard? 

Ask the voters, enough seem not to care. 

But shouldn't we hold the POTUS to a higher standard? 

Sure...if the president was convicted of a crime. But right now it's all idle speculation and allegations. Everyone, including the president , should receive due process and presumption of innocence.

Did the left hold the Clintons to a higher standard?

Sure...if the president was convicted of a crime. But right now it's all idle speculation and allegations. Everyone, including the president , should receive due process and presumption of innocence.

So we can only hold the POTUS to a higher standard AFTER they are convicted of a crime? That makes no sense at all..

Did the left hold the Clintons to a higher standard?

What crime was she convicted of? Funny how that street goes both ways. 

Why did President Clinton have to turn in his law license again?

What counts is NOW not THEN.  Quit using the past as an excuse for the present.

what actual crimes did Hillary get charged with. 

People in America break the law everyday and go unpunished.

Rarely those whose crimes have been documented and even more rarely those whose employer knows they committed a felony. 

WE are the employer of Trump, who WE now know is a felon. Oh and not just any old felon, but one who used his position to sell out his country for personal profit. 

People in America break the law everyday and go unpunished.

Rarely those whose crimes have been documented and even more rarely those whose employer knows they committed a felony. 

WE are the employer of Trump,

all true.

However I really don't think president trump is going to lose his job over what I've seen so far. None of what I've seen come out has surprised me. And I think some way or another this will all be absorbed and trump will once again come out of a shit pile smelling like a rose to some. 

I stopped underestimating this man long ago now. 

What felony are you blabbering about?

Any conviction?

And I think some way or another this will all be absorbed and trump will once again come out of a shit pile smelling like a rose to some.

The proof of that is that Roger Stone has Nixon tattooed on his back. No matter how much evidence was documented against Nixon, sycophants still defended him and pretended that it was a 'witch hunt'. 

I stopped underestimating this man long ago now. 

At this point, so much has been documented about Trump's actions, both exposed and behind redactions, I don't think Trump has any idea what's about to hit him. One thing that we shouldn't OVERESTIMATE is Trump's ability to handle fact based opposition. It's already becoming evident that he doesn't do well when confronted with facts, notwithstanding his delusional dismissal of those facts. Even his sycophantic fans know that Trump is lying, they just don't care. BUTT, only his most hard core fans will stick with him to the end. A percentage point here and a donor there and the next thing Trump knows, the GOP will stop running interference and he will be under siege within an empty moat. 

It's already becoming evident that he doesn't do well when confronted with facts, notwithstanding his delusional dismissal of those facts.

 O I agree, This is gonna be one hell of a shit feast with trump serving up dish after dish to anyone with an appetite for it. As you say his enablers will gobble it up asking for more, and I have little doubt that that will make enough difference he will remain in power for now.

Too many still want too much from this man who will give it to them to retain that power. In short, I really think we’re screwed.

What felony are you blabbering about? Any conviction?

Did you read Cohen's charging memo from the SDNY Greg?

The ONLY reason Trump hasn't been indicted [YET] is because he's the *president*. 

In short, I really think we’re screwed.

I've thought that since Nov, 5, 2016. I actually wish that it was only as bad as my limited imagination predicted at the time. Unfortunately, Trump has proven far worse that any doom and gloom I felt at the time...especially domestically. 

Perhaps you need to read more fiction to stimulate that imagination, cause trump hasn't done as bad as I feared. 

But many of my fears of trump are long term so... 

Trump has proven far worse that any doom and gloom I felt at the time...especially domestically. 

I fear you may lack imagination in the doom and gloom category.

• We are not at war.
• The economy hasn't been destroyed.
• The job market is even stronger than it was when he took office.
• He has not created a new office of "Presidential Concubine", and demanded all big boobed blonde women from ages 19-29 come to DC to apply for the job.
• He has yet to appear wearing a thong in a Pitbull video.

Things could be SO much worse.

Oh I've read a ton of fiction but very little in the horror genre...

• He has not created a new office of "Presidential Concubine", and demanded all big boobed blonde women from ages 19-29 come to DC to apply for the job.

He's so often @ one of his properties, he's learned to hold himself over with just sexting during the week and saving himself for Friday-Sunday AM...

Oh I've read a ton of fiction but very little in the horror genre...

LOL.. Me either actually still I could picture trump taking down the rabbit hole further and faster that the reality has been. 

And Jack does make some good points above, It could be worse. 

Actually we are about where I thought we might be at least domestly. What I failed to imagine was trump international..  that's a different picture.  We have to deal with this guy, he's our leader , trump pisses off  another countries leader or leaders bad enough we all could be paying the price for a ling time. 

And Jack does make some good points above, It could be worse. 

Thank you.

I will say....I expected much worse.  I was not optimistic AT ALL on election night. 

It's not like I'm overly optimistic now, but I continuously marvel at the durability of the republic.  Those framers knew what they were doing.

I continuously marvel at the durability of the republic.  Those framers knew what they were doing.

Me too, But I have a feeling it's all going to be highly tested in the very near future. 

Me too, But I have a feeling it's all going to be highly tested in the very near future.

Meh.  People thought that in the 1960's, too.  We'll get through it.

    Any conviction?

There will be.

But we actually are at war.

The economy is being destroyed by Trump.

Obama saved us from Bush mistakes.

I'm sure that Trump is annoyed that he can no longer have affairs with porn stars.

One wonders if you really believe all that or if its just simple regurgitation of hive imprinting .....

• We are not at war. not yet
• The economy hasn't been destroyed. not from a lack of trying
• The job market is even stronger than it was when he took office. with the stock market waffling like it has been....give it a minute
• He has not created a new office of "Presidential Concubine", and demanded all big boobed blonde women from ages 19-29 come to DC to apply for the job. that's just funny, Jack (rofl)
• He has yet to appear wearing a thong in a Pitbull video. please let me know when he does so I can avoid it

• We are not at war. not yet

Exactly.  Which is slightly better than I expected.

• The economy hasn't been destroyed. not from a lack of trying

Meh.  I don't think he's done much to destroy the economy.  I think he's doing what he can to negotiate better trade deals, and for the most part he's been able to do so.  They're not as glorious as he likes to claim (nothing ever is), but they are improvements.

• The job market is even stronger than it was when he took office. with the stock market waffling like it has been....give it a minute

It's going to take more than a minute.  It may yet happen, and my portfolio has been moved to mostly cash in anticipation of our long awaited bear market, but there is still a looooooong way to go before we're down to election day levels.

• He has not created a new office of "Presidential Concubine", and demanded all big boobed blonde women from ages 19-29 come to DC to apply for the job. that's just funny, Jack (rofl)

I aim to please.

• He has yet to appear wearing a thong in a Pitbull video. please let me know when he does so I can avoid it

But you've already imagined it now.  Try to get THAT image out of your mind.   Hehehehehehe.  (That's my evil chuckle.)

Ok....you did your one evil deed for the month. LOL!

For the "hour".   I've done my evil deed for the hour.  And I slept last night, so I need to catch up.

Pace yourself

Good advice. 

But so much evil left to do, and so little time......

Trump has destroyed the values, morals and ethics of America.

Trump has destroyed the values, morals and ethics of America.

If he has destroyed your values or morals, they were so weak you can't really lay claim to them.

If a president....a person whom you've never actually met...can destroy your values, you are too weak and pathetic to claim you had any values to begin with.

But we actually are at war.

No, we're not.  We're policing places....which we were doing before he was elected.

The economy is being destroyed by Trump.

Your data points to support that?  Do tell.

Obama saved us from Bush mistakes.

You mean Clinton mistakes.  I know you don't think you do, but we're going to pretend you understand how the repeal of Glass Steagall caused the financial crisis 9 years later.

I'm sure that Trump is annoyed that he can no longer have affairs with porn stars.

Possibly.  I don't care who he sleeps with. 

Do I understand correctly that we are now seeding about tweets?  

Do I understand correctly that we are now seeding about tweets?

Just so you know this isn't about some tweet,

They once again emphasized that Mr. Cohen had implicated the president in his guilty plea, writing that Mr. Cohen “played a central role” in a scheme to purchase the silence of two women who claimed to have affairs with Mr. Trump, so they would not speak publicly during the 2016 presidential campaign.
“Cohen himself has now admitted, with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1,” the prosecutors wrote. “Individual-1” is how Mr. Trump is referred to in the document.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/michael-cohen-trump’s-ex-fixer-should-get-prison-term-of-about-4-years-prosecutors-say/ar-BBQEjEQ?ocid=spartanntp

Just so you know this isn't about some tweet,

Well the only link in the entire seed prior to yours was to a tweet, so you can understand the question.

Just so you know this isn't about some tweet,

Well the only link in the entire seed prior to yours was to a tweet, so you can understand the question.

With the entire world on a hair trigger of a single tweet issued by the most powerful human on the planet and one seed based on a tweet upsets you ?

Seriously ? 

sorry but, LOL 

See #8

You have a good point, lol.

His president uses twitter as if it is the most reliable form of communicating news in the world.

It is. He gets the word out, unfiltered and edited by the leftist media.

It is. He gets the word out, unfiltered and edited by the leftist media.

You know that the WH has an entire office dedicated to getting the word out right? You know that the WH can make unlimited press releases at will right? You know that Trump can issue just about anything he wants under his .gov account right? You know that NONE of those venues can be filtered or edited by ANY media right? In fact, there is NO 'comment' section in ANY of those venues. 

Conversely, take a look at Trump's twitter account. Trump spews bullshit and hundreds of his 'followers' NAIL him with fact checks on a daily basis. Trump NEVER replies to ANY of those comments. It's like watching a 'celebrity roast' and would be just as funny if it weren't so fucking sad...

Well the only link in the entire seed prior to yours was to a tweet, so you can understand the question.

Yep, I can understand.

With the entire world on a hair trigger of a single tweet issued by the most powerful human on the planet and one seed based on a tweet upsets you ?

1.  Most of the world has learned to roll their eyes at Trump tweets.

2.  I think calling Trump "the most powerful human on the planet" reflects a naive and inflated idea of the potency of the presidency in modern times.

3.  You suggest that I am "upset", yet you are the one posting in very large letters.  I suggest you may be projecting your emotions onto me.  

4.  This particular seeder has a long and well established history of posting anything anti-Trump, whether it's remotely true or not.  So establishing a credible source for such an accusatory title would be the first order of business.  At the time of my post, no such link existed anywhere on the seed.

1.  Most of the world has learned to roll their eyes at Trump tweets.

2.  I think calling Trump "the most powerful human on the planet" reflects a naive and inflated idea of the potency of the presidency in modern times.

3.  You suggest that I am "upset", yet you are the one posting in very large letters.  I suggest you may be projecting your emotions onto me.  

I disagree.

4.  This particular seeder has a long and well established history of posting anything anti-Trump,

In contrast, Tweets are commonly used now as the president has well established.  

I disagree.

With what, exactly?

In contrast, Tweets are commonly used now as the president has well established.

Tweets are everywhere.  That doesn't mean they are factual or accurate.

I disagree.

With what, exactly?

Everything you said above what I said I disagree wth... duu  

In contrast, Tweets are commonly used now as the president has well established.

Tweets are everywhere.  That doesn't mean they are factual or accurate.

So not every seed on here is either.  Even the news outlets file erroneous stories these days its pretty much up to the reader to investigate if they care too.  If tweets are so bad and not to be believed or trusted some one should let the president of the united states in on that. 

But you are correct, intelligent people follow up on what's in tweets  that sure seems ta cause trump problems sometimes though. O and the stock market.  

Everything you said above what I said I disagree wth... duu  

*eyeroll*

So not every seed on here is either.

Exactly my point.....duu

Even the news outlets file erroneous stories these days its pretty much up to the reader to investigate if they care too.

Yes.  And seeds generally contain a link or two to facilitate that.

If tweets are so bad and not to be believed or trusted some one should let the president of the united states in on that. 

Do you believe everything he tweets?  

But you are correct, intelligent people follow up on what's in tweets  that sure seems ta cause trump problems sometimes though.

Undoubtedly.  As it should.

Mueller has documentation of much of what Cohen pled to, at least as far as the campaign violations are concerned. It's in the charging memos for anyone to read...

Was Cohen lying before or is he lying now just to get a reduced sentence?

Nice try but, no cigar, the SDNY has tapes of conversations that took place at the time between Cohen and, Trump were Trump is over heard telling Cohen to make the payment and, Cohen explaining to him how it would be done so, yeah, Cohen is a liar but, not about that.

1.  Most of the world has learned to roll their eyes at Trump tweets.

The role of the president of the United States is not to be an insult comedian. It's not his role, and all his public pronouncements  are commonly seen as the official position of the president.

Stop making excuses for this travesty.

The role of the president of the United States is not to be an insult comedian.

Nor is it to pander to your "feelings".

It's not his role, and all his public pronouncements  are commonly seen as the official position of the president.

His tweets are not viewed that way by anybody with any shred of intelligence.  

Stop making excuses for this travesty.

I realize that hating Donald Trump is a big part of your day.  Personally, I'm just not that bothered.  

Interesting. Just how should they be interpreted, Jack?

Those of us with a little grey hair and a little business acumen have seen hundreds of Trump-types before.   These guys are constantly telling you they're going to do things everybody knows they're not really going to do and most of which they can't do anyway.

He's what my father would have called a "blow-hard" back in the 1960's.  To borrow a Texas phrase...."he's all hat and no cattle".  

He spouts a seemingly endless stream of bullshit, all designed to keep his supporters happy.  He can't do 90% of what he says he's going to do....because....."The Constitution".  All he really cares about is his own ego, and saying stupid shit on twitter keeps people telling him how great he is.

It's not his role, and all his public pronouncements  are commonly seen as the official position of the president.

That's a laugh since he changes them the next day.

That's a laugh since he changes them the next day.

Exactly.  You should tell that to the person who made the statement.  I simply cited it. 

Do I understand correctly that we are now seeding about tweets?  

It was initially broken by a tweet...but it's been confirmed by several good sources.

..

Do I understand correctly that we are now seeding about tweets?

What's you issue? 

I have had to adjust to the fact that the current occupant of the WH conducts the business of the country via tweet. Trump hires and fires Cabinet members, makes [mostly false] announcements on trade and foreign policy, threatens and praises our adversaries and our allies and states his ad nauseam displeasure of his perceived adversaries, ALL via tweet. 

Trump's twitter account will be the FIRST that will be documented in total in the National Archives...

Trump's twitter account

Trump's twitter account IMO: Should be studied by the mental health community. What a peek into the mind of a megalomaniac. It'd be like landing a man on mars ! 

Well, actually, the "Author" posted this as his own work, so it couldn't be considered a "Seed", unless of course he was working the edges instead of directly following the rules of the site.

No, I guess you don't understand correctly.

A felony...any felony, is an impeachable offense. Period. 

But-----------the Hillary emails. 

The Trump continues to whine.

Yet, he has not said one word about his daughter doing the same thing.  I wonder if he would demand conjugal visits if she would get locked up.

Comey came right out, and said, during that July press conference, that Hillary absolutely did send and receive highly classified government emails on her unsecured private home server. That's a crime.

That's a crime.

Here we go again! 

Post a link to the statute Greg and PLEASE review it for the term 'intent' before you post something that doesn't qualify...

No...only high crimes and misdemeanors.

Anything he is alleged to have done is not impeachable, and the Senate wouldn't vote to impeach anyway.

and the Senate wouldn't vote to impeach anyway.

That didn't stop Newt Gingrich...

Greg.. I think you need to go look up what a felony is. 

Told ya' so.

Tweet storm from the WH at 11.....Stay tuned.

Wrote this a year ago.

thenewstalkers

____________________________________

And THIS!

     A. Macarthur       last year

And this …

Let the equivocation, the whistling past the grave yard, and the "where's the proof after all this time" stuff … begin.

For the record … I was the first (possibly the only) NT member to call … CONSPIRACY & OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE REGARDING WHAT MAY YET BE DEEMED … "A STOLEN ELECTION!"

In the words of Jess Willard Trump … "We'll see what happens."

thenewstalkers

_________________________________________________

This …

thenewstalkers

________________________________________________

This …

thenewstalkers

And this …

Rosenstein:  “There is no allegation in this indictment that any American citizen committed a crime. There is no allegation that the conspiracy changed the vote count or affected any election result.” YET!

Yet!

It's coming, my friend. Smart investigators will put "handwriting on the wall" to generate fear and anxiety for those who may resultantly rush to make a deal in order to mitigate the imminent consequences.

There may even be a  culpable Republican member of Congress  (or an individual who ran for Congress in 2016).

I never just   idly   speculate.

thenewstalkers

And caught a lot of ad hominem shit, mockery … 

And now we are on the precipice of a shit storm … to great extent because, among other things, Senate Majority Leader, (R) Mitch McConnell Refused To Sign a Bipartisan Statement On Russian Interference informing the American voters …

The Obama administration officials went to McConnell rather than going public for fear of appearing to put their thumb on the scales for Clinton.

[deleted]

Felony--phelony.  The Trump will skate.  The evangelical crowd proclaims the Trump was sent by gawd.  Praise the fetus and pass the ammunition. 

Besides, the Trump has Ivanka.

Trump was sent by gawd.

Gawd's indictment is coming shortly. 

Trump was sent by gawd.

Gawd's indictment is coming shortly. 

You may be correct, Then what ?

trumps been playing nice. Wait till he's really feeling threatened ever see a wild animal cornered ? It ain't pretty. Hell this jackass would rather start a fucking world war than face impeachment. 

Hire the pied piper, pay his price. 

it is what it is. 

The Trump has never been nice.  Or honest.  The Trump is a liar, cheat and a fraud.  Hell, he might even be a traitor in varying degrees.

The Trump has never been nice.

bb-1

I seriously doubt we have ever seen the worst this human has to offer. 

To many things about the Trump I can not understand.  I understand 'the base' even less.  Something is not right. 

Because the left can not comprehend how much we hate their Marxist statist ideology. Nearly all my friends view this war with the left as not between parties, but between good and evil

To many things about the Trump I can not understand.  I understand 'the base' even less.  Something is not right. 

None of us can or will ever know much about the other and trump is a would class study in understandability. He works at it even. He's learned to use it to his advantage and even says so.

His base IMO: Have been almost brainwashed. Trumpism reminds me of cultism. I didn't really blame the followers of like Jim Jones and I have the same feeling about the trump followers. 

That's my take.

Because the left can not comprehend how much we hate their Marxist statist ideology. Nearly all my friends view this war with the left as not between parties, but between good and evil

Good example of: we hate you because you hate us. 

Too damn bad that WE all share but one land mass because with this attitude we all lose.

United we stood,, for how long ? Divided we fall, Slowly but surely.

Our choice still... For now. 

Left and right no longer have anything in common to unite us

Left and right no longer have anything in common to unite us

America is not alone in this problem China's solution was One country two systems:

One country, two systems means there is only one China, but the regions of Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan could retain their original economic and political systems while mainland China keep pursuing socialism, after they reunified with mainland. This arrangement has been implementing since China resumed sovereignty over Hong Kong and Macao in 1997 and 1999 respectively. We call these two provinces as Special Administrative Regions of China, and they have high degrees of autonomy and independence. Actually, the idea or concept is not the first time to be conceived; it can be traced back to 10th century AD.  

studymode

Maybe we should follow their lead. 

NOT !

United we stand ... ya know the rest. 

there seemed to be some unity displayed with the funeral of an old republican this past week.

There is no autonomy for Hong Kong. I have a number of friends who live there and the idea that HK has any autonomy is a tragic joke

Really what policies and/or legislation were negotiated 

Furthermore the Establishment Republicans are little different from the Democrats.  Didn’t you listen during the 2016 campaign and elections

There is no autonomy for Hong Kong. I have a number of friends who live there and the idea that HK has any autonomy is a tragic joke

That's too bad, maybe a two system America isn't a good idea after all eh ? 

Maybe the founding fathers figured that out long ago. So they set our system up to cooperate the two. 

Its a shame its not working real well these days here either since both Sides wants it all now. That sucks IMO

O well. Good Luck America. 

he might even be a traitor in varying degrees.

The Trump presidency was acquired by MONEY, CONSPIRACY, BRIBERY, BLACKMAIL, ESPIONAGE … 

TRUMP IS A NATIONAL ASSEST OF PUTIN/RUSSIA!

THE POTUS IS IN OFFICE BY WAY OF FRAUD!

And the lies he told about "no business with Russia," he not only told to liberals like myself … BUT TO HIS OWN BASE! 

He played and suckered and lied to his own supporters!

And continues to do so.

The Trump presidency was acquired by MONEY, CONSPIRACY, BRIBERY, BLACKMAIL, ESPIONAGE …

TRUMP IS A NATIONAL ASSEST OF PUTIN/RUSSIA!

THE POTUS IS IN OFFICE BY WAY OF FRAUD!

Idiotic statements. I expect better from an intelligent and highly educated chap like yourself. And of course you can't prove any of it. 

Nearly all my friends view this war with the left as not between parties, but between good and evil

So...  The side committing the felonies has to be the evil side.  Right?

Unlike the left we have no problem with Trump trying to build his businesses while he was a candidate. In fact I would have had a lower opinion of him if he had stopped while he was still a candidate.

And he broke no laws trying to secure a real estate deal in Russia

No the side pushing Marxist statist collectivism, infanticide paid for by taxpayers, and who promotes sexual perversions as not us normal but good.  All that is evil

Because the left can not comprehend how much we hate their Marxist statist ideology.

The list of what the neo-nationalist can not comprehend is unending...

Nearly all my friends view this war with the left as not between parties, but between good and evil

Which I'm sure you and your friends see as righteous, yet would balk at the very concept of the left placing y'all on the side of evil. 

So... The side denying health care to infants and having extramarital sex with and paying hush money to porn stars is the evil side then?

Nothing has been done to prevent infants from getting healthcare. Can you cite the federal law that says infants shall be denied healthcare?

if Trump was involved in paying off a porn store that has no affect on the citizens of the US

Unlike the left we have no problem with Trump trying to build his businesses while he was a candidate.

Unlike the neo-nationalists, 'we' DO have a problem with the fact that Trump LIED about his business connections with Russia while he was a candidate. 

It looks like the evangelicals have utterly abdicated their duty to call for repentance before issuing forgiveness...

And he broke no laws trying to secure a real estate deal in Russia

That's ironic coming from one of the most outspoken members who insists that 'Gods law' is the most relevant standard. You know those 'bear false witness' and 'adultery' and 'covet' thingys...

All that goes out the window in your defense of Trump. 

Trump was a private citizen and as such it was no ones business what he was doing to build his companies unless he was engaged in criminal activity and he wasn’t 

False witness means to lie about someone else, accusing them of a crime they didn’t commit

can you show me where Trump has committed adultery since becoming president.

every Christian was once a sinner. I’ve seen no evidence or even accusation that Trump has engaged in adultry since running for president.  Ministers I trust say Trump received the sinners prayer during the campaign to receive Christ

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.”   1 Corinthians 6:9-11

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”
2 Corinthians 5:17 

if Trump was involved in paying off a porn store that has no affect on the citizens of the US

1) He did it to influence the election. He waited 10 years after the affair to pay her off, and only weeks before the election? Weird timing don't ya think? 

2) He used campaign funds to make the payment, which is a felony. 

Don't damn me with feint praise, Greg; even the redacted Mueller reports and the following agencies verified Russian involvement in the Potus election …

Air Force Intelligence, Army Intelligence, Central Intelligence Agency, Coast Guard Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency, Energy Department, Homeland Security Department, State Department, Treasury Department, Drug Enforcement Administration, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Marine Corps Intelligence, National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Agency, Navy Intelligence and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

And the indictments tell some of the story and strongly imply the rest.

EDUCATE YOURSELF before mocking me. The TRUMP COLLEGE OF ZEAL-WITHOUT-KNOWLEDGE is no place to do so.

The full list of known indictments and plea deals in Mueller’s probe

1) George Papadopoulos , former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was arrested in July 2017 and   pleaded guilty   last October to making false statements to the FBI. He got a 14-day sentence.

2) Paul Manafort , Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted on a total of 25 different counts by Mueller’s team, related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances. He had two trials scheduled, and the first ended in a conviction on eight counts of financial crimes. To avert the second trial, Manafort struck a plea deal with Mueller in September 2018 (though Mueller’s team said in November that he   breached that agreement by lying to them).

3) Rick Gates , a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a   plea deal with Mueller’s team , pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and   one conspiracy charge .

4) Michael Flynn , Trump’s former national security adviser,   pleaded guilty   last December to making false statements to the FBI.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and   three   Russian companies   were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the   Internet Research Agency , often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo : This California man   pleaded guilty   to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller. He was sentenced to 6 months in prison and 6 months of home detention   in October.

22) Alex van der Zwaan:   This London lawyer   pleaded guilty   to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail and has completed his sentence.

23) Konstantin Kilimnik : This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia,   was charged   alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.

24-35) 12 Russian GRU officers : These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were   charged with crimes   related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’   emails   in 2016.

36) Michael Cohen:   In August, Trump’s former lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations — related to hush money payments to women who alleged affairs with Donald Trump, as part of a separate investigation in New York (that Mueller had handed off). But in November, he made a plea deal with Mueller too, for lying to Congress about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.

Finally, there is one other person Mueller initially investigated, but handed over to others in the Justice Department to charge:   Sam Patten . This Republican operative and lobbyist   pleaded guilty   to not registering as a foreign agent with his work for Ukrainian political bigwigs, and agreed to cooperate with the government.

That’s the full list, but we’ll delve into the charges in a bit more detail below.

The five ex-Trump aides who struck plea deals with Mueller

So far, no Trump associates have been specifically charged with any crimes relating to helping Russia interfere with the 2016 election.

Yet five have pleaded guilty to other crimes. Manafort and Gates were charged with a series of offenses related to their past work for Ukrainian politicians and their finances. Papadopoulos and Flynn both admitted making false statements to investigators to hide their contacts with Russians, and Cohen admitted making false statements to Congress.

Papadopoulos:   Back in April 2016, Papadopoulos   got a tip   from a foreign professor he understood to have Russian government connections that the Russians had “dirt” on Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails.” He then proceeded to have extensive contacts with the professor and two Russian nationals, during which he tried to plan a Trump campaign trip to Russia.

But when the FBI interviewed Papadopoulos about all this in January 2017, he repeatedly lied about what happened, he now admits. So he was arrested in July 2017, and later agreed to plead guilty to a false statements charge, which was dramatically unsealed in October 2017.

Initially, it seemed as if Papadopoulos was cooperating with Mueller’s probe. But we later learned that the special counsel cut off contact with him last year, after he talked to the press. In the end, he didn’t provide much information of note, Mueller’s team said in court filing. His involvement with the investigation is now over, and in September 2017, he was sentenced to 14 days incarceration.

Flynn:   In December 2016, during the transition, Flynn spoke to Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak about sanctions that President Barack Obama had just placed on Russia, and about a planned United Nations Security Council vote condemning Israeli settlements.

But when FBI agents interviewed him about all this in January 2017, Flynn lied to them about what his talks with Kislyak entailed, he now admits. In December 2017, Flynn pleaded guilty to a false statements charge and began cooperating with Mueller’s investigation. We haven’t seen the fruits of his cooperation yet, and he has not yet been sentenced.

Manafort and Gates : This pair worked for Ukrainian politicians (and, eventually, the Ukrainian government) for several years prior to the Trump campaign, and made an enormous amount of money for it. Mueller charged them with hiding their lobbying work and the money they made from it from the government, as well as other financial crimes and attempts to interfere with the investigation.

Gates was the first to strike a plea deal. In February, Mueller dropped most of the charges he had brought against him. In exchange, Gates pleaded guilty to two counts — one   conspiracy to defraud the United States   charge encompassing the overall Ukrainian lobbying and money allegations, and a false statements charge. (With the latter, Gates   admitted   lying to Mueller’s team during a meeting this February. A Dutch lawyer, Alex van der Zwaan, also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI related to his Ukrainian work with Gates.)

Manafort, meanwhile, fought the charges in two venues, Washington, DC, and Virginia. His first trial was in Virginia, and in August, it ended with his conviction on eight counts — five counts of subscribing to false income tax returns, one count of failing to report his foreign bank accounts, and two counts of bank fraud. The jury deadlocked on another 10 counts, so for those, the judge declared a mistrial.

The conviction finally brought Manafort to the table, and on September 14, he and Mueller’s team struck a plea deal requiring his cooperation. Manafort pleaded guilty to just two more counts — conspiracy to defraud the United States, and an attempted obstruction of justice charge. But he admitted that the other allegations Mueller previously made against him were true as well. The cooperation element of his plea deal fell apart in November, though, as Mueller’s team   accused Manafort   of lying to them.

Cohen:   Mueller’s team was investigating Trump’s former attorney in 2017, but at some point, they referred the Cohen probe to the US Attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York (SDNY). It was SDNY that authorized the FBI raid of Cohen’s residence and office in April.

In August, Cohen cut a deal with SDNY. He agreed to plead guilty to 8 counts. Six of them involved his own finances — 5 tax counts involving hiding various income related to his taxi medallion business and other financial transactions from the US government, and a bank fraud count. Cohen also admitted participating in a scheme to violate campaign finance laws in connection with hush money payments to women alleging affairs with then-presidential candidate Donald Trump.

Then, in November, Cohen made his deal with Mueller. Here, he agreed to plead guilty to making false statements to Congress, to try and cover up his work on behalf of a Trump Tower Moscow project during the campaign.

Cohen had told Congress that the Trump Tower Moscow project ended early in the campaign, that he hadn’t discussed it much with others at Trump’s company, and that he hadn’t successfully gotten in touch with the Russian government about it.

In fact, he   now admits , the project was still active months later, he’d talked about it with Trump more than he’d admitted (and with unnamed Trump family members), and he’d talked about it with an assistant for Russian President Vladimir Putin’s press secretary.

About two dozen overseas Russians have been charged with election interference

Mueller has also filed two major indictments of Russian nationals and a few Russian companies for crimes related to alleged interference with the 2016 election: the troll farm indictment, and the email hacking indictment.

The troll farm indictment : In February, Mueller brought charges related to the propaganda efforts of one Russian group in particular: the   Internet Research Agency . That group’s operations — which included social media posts, online ads, and organization of rallies in the US — were, the indictment alleges, often (but not exclusively) aimed at denigrating Hillary Clinton’s presidential candidacy and supporting Donald Trump’s.

Mueller indicted the Internet Research Agency, two other shell companies involved in financing the agency, its alleged financier (Yevgeny Prigozhin), and 12 other Russian nationals who allegedly worked for it.

The specific charges in the case include one broad “conspiracy to defraud the United States” count, but the rest are far narrower — one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, and six counts of identity theft. It is highly unlikely that the indicted Russian individuals will ever come to the US to face trial, but one company involved, Concord Catering, is   fighting back in court .

No Americans have been charged with being witting participants in this Russian election interference effort. However, one American,   Richard Pinedo of California , pleaded guilty to an identity fraud charge, seemingly because he sold bank account numbers created with stolen identities to the Russians. Pinedo agreed to cooperate with the probe as part of his plea deal. He   was sentenced   to 6 months in prison and 6 months home detention in October.

The email hacking indictment : Brought in July, here Mueller charged 12 officers of the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence agency, with crimes committed to the high-profile   hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’ emails   during the 2016 campaign.

Specifically indicted   were nine officers of the GRU’s “Unit 26165,” which Mueller alleges “had primary responsibility for hacking the DCCC and DNC, as well as the email accounts of individuals affiliated with the Clinton Campaign” like John Podesta. Three other GRU officers, Mueller alleges, “assisted in the release of stolen documents,” “the promotion of those releases,” “and the publication of anti-Clinton content on social media accounts operated by the GRU.”

A trial here is unlikely, since all of the people indicted live in Russia.

Konstantin Kilimnik, a longtime Manafort associate, has been charged with obstruction of justice

Then, Konstantin Kilimnik — who worked with Manafort in Ukraine and is now based in Russia —   was charged   alongside Manafort with obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice, in June.

Mueller argued that, earlier in 2018, Manafort and Kilimnik worked together to contact potential witnesses against Manafort and encourage them to give false testimony. He argues that this is attempted witness tampering, and qualifies as obstruction of justice.

The alleged tampering relates to the “ Hapsburg group ”— a group of former senior European politicians Manafort paid to advocate for Ukraine’s interests.

Both Manafort and Kilimnik tried to contact witnesses to get them to claim the Hapsburg group only operated in Europe (where US foreign lobbying laws don’t apply). But Mueller says there’s ample evidence that the group did work in the US too, and the witnesses thought Manafort and Kilimnik were trying to get them to commit perjury.

In Manafort’s September plea deal, he admitted to this. Kilimnik, however, is in Russia, and will likely remain there rather than face charges.

Sam Patten struck a plea deal after Mueller referred his investigation elsewhere

Finally, there’re another instance in which where Mueller surfaced incriminating information about someone, but handed off the investigation to elsewhere in the Justice Department.

Sam Patten : A GOP lobbyist who had worked in some of the same Ukrainian circles as Manafort and alongside Konstantin Kilimnik, Mueller’s team began investigating Patten, but at some point handed him off to the DC US attorney’s office. However, the plea deal Patten eventually struck obligated him to cooperate with Mueller.

According to a   criminal information document   filed by the DC US attorney’s office, Patten and Kilimnik (who is not named but referred to as “Foreigner A”) founded a lobbying and consulting company together. They did campaign work in Ukraine and lobbying work in the US, and were paid over $1 million between 2015 and 2017.

Specifically, the document claims that Patten contacted members of Congress and their staffers, State Department officials, and members of the press on behalf of his Ukrainian clients — all without registering under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, as required by law.

Patten also admits to helping his Ukrainian oligarch client get around the prohibition on foreign donations to Donald Trump’s inauguration committee. The oligarch sent $50,000 to Patten’s company, and then he gave that money to a US citizen, who bought the four tickets. The tickets were given to the oligarch, Kilimnik, another Ukrainian, and Patten himself.

Finally, Patten also admits to misleading the Senate Intelligence Committee and withholding documents from them during testimony this January. He pleaded guilty to one count of violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

Weird timing don't ya think? 

Depends on the time of the extortion.

if Trump was involved in paying off a porn store that has no affect on the citizens of the US

You base that proclamation on WHAT exactly? It sure as hell isn't based on the FACTS as documented in Cohen's sentencing memo since the SDNY states clearly that Cohen's acts did indeed affect citizens of the US. Perhaps it would behoove you to READ that memo before you make future unfounded comments. 

False witness means to lie about someone else, accusing them of a crime they didn’t commit

So is it your posit that lying is fine with your God? 

can you show me where Trump has committed adultery since becoming president.

Since when is there a time limit for adultery? Trump's first wife is still alive, Trump was screwing Marla Maples before his divorce and didn't marry Maples until 2 months after Tiffany was born. Now we KNOW for a fact that he has had at LEAST one long term affair with Karen McDougal and a one night stand with Stormy Daniels while married to Melania. 

every Christian was once a sinner. I’ve seen no evidence or even accusation that Trump has engaged in adultry since running for president.  Ministers I trust say Trump received the sinners prayer during the campaign to receive Christ

Since when can an adulterer be absolved for adultery that is ONGOING? 

Depends on the time of the extortion.

Extortion? How is trump paying daniels to be quiet, "extortion"? In any case... The affair happened 10 years before the 2016 election. Why did trump wait until JUST BEFORE the election to pay her off? 

Since you cannot seem to answer the question, I will do it for you... 

So the voters wouldn't know what a POS trump is. That's doing something to INFLUENCE AN ELECTION. Add to that, he used campaign funds to pay her off. That's a violation of campaign finance laws, which is a FELONY. 

NOW do you understand?

Add to that, he used campaign funds to pay her off.

Actually, he didn't, the Trump org. repaid Cohen.

The campaign finance violation was Cohen and Trump conspiring to pay off  Daniels to keep her from telling the press about Trump's adultery during the campaign. The tape proves that the pay off was specifically to protect Trump's candidacy. 

Extortion? How is trump paying daniels to be quiet, "extortion"?

It's not.  Daniels saying "pay up or I'll go public" is.

Why did trump wait until JUST BEFORE the election to pay her off? 

It depends on when she asked for the money.

Since you cannot seem to answer the question,

Was I supposed to interject in the middle of your post?  Do you understand how internet forums work?

So the voters wouldn't know what a POS trump is.

He's on his third wife and he's a world famous adulterer.  Which means you're asking the wrong question.  I wonder why he bothered to pay her at all.  What does she really know that we haven't learned yet?

That's doing something to INFLUENCE AN ELECTION.

That's what a campaign is.  Influencing an election.

Add to that, he used campaign funds to pay her off.

There seems to be some disagreement on that.  What's your source?

It's not.  Daniels saying "pay up or I'll go public" is

Except she didn't do that. She was hawking Pecker to sell her story to him. Pecker called Cohen and a deal was struck.

That's why the feds have Pecker's pecker in a vice as well as Trump's CFO.

It depends on when she asked for the money.

They were dragging their feet on paying. I can only assume why but I'd have zero to back it. 

The deal was cut a while before but not completed (paid)

That's doing something to INFLUENCE AN ELECTION.

That's what a campaign is.  Influencing an election.

Okay, since it has to be spelled out, I can correct the comment so we don't have to mince words...

"That"s doing something illegal to influence an election" .

I seriously doubt we have ever seen the worst this human has to offer. 

I really hope we have

I seriously doubt we have ever seen the worst this human has to offer. 

I really hope we have

Trout, I really hope we have as well. But I highly doubt that's the case. Look at the where this guy was already willing to go to get what he wanted.

I tend to look at where something or someone came from, where and what they are today and to see the projected possible forward path of travel pretty well. 

I don't thing the public has seen behind trump's curtain to much of a degree as of yet.

Much of what we have seen hasn't been pretty so I presume the full picture is worse.

[deleted]

Prediction:

• House Democrats (in January or later) will file articles of impeachment against Trump

• The House will move to dismiss Trump from the Presidency

• The Senate will then be faced with having to vote 2/3 to dismiss which means a number of Republicans will have to vote for dismissal

• RATHER THAN REPUBLICANS VOTING "YAY" OR "NAY" AND RISKING THE POLITICAL FALLOUT EITHER WAY …

… they will urge Trump to resign a la Nixon/Watergate …

FYI: 38 members of the Nixon Administration served prison time in conjunction with Watergate, and, Gerald Ford lost his POTUS ELECTION FOR PARDONING NIXON!

More leftist fantasy. Trump will be re elected and by a landslide if the Dems put up one of their socialist candidates 

Trump to date has been the best president in the past 90 years.  We will defend him against the evil that is the Democratic Party with whatever it takes

Or this.  The Trump will impeach himself, by himself and for himself. 

Tillerson, among others, said the Trump was a moron.  And in the end, the Trump will prove it.

Trump will be re elected

I'd say a definite possibility, But I stopped underestimating trump, including his disability of saying and doing stupid shit, especially when he feel threatened and he's about to have the heat turned up to boil. President trump could conceivably trump himself right out of office if he goes off the rails to damn far.The other politicians have someone to answer to and its not all trump.

This next 6 to 9 months is gonna get "Very Interesting" as SLN used ta say. 

The Trump will impeach himself, by himself and for himself. 

LOL Yep, Then Pardon himself and run for president again. 

Kinda like a bad chucky movie. 

Tillerson, among others, said the Trump was a moron.  And in the end, the Trump will prove it.

in the end ? 

I vote for sooner.

 We will defend him against the evil that is the Democratic Party with whatever it takes

Your veiled threats are one of many reasons why Trump, the perceived enabler of your white-resentment fantasies … needs to be impeached, indicted, shamed and punished for the perversities he has galvanized among his zeal-without-knowledge base!

Otherwise, put up or shut up by wagering $25 for the American Cancer Society … against MY CONTENTION that Trump will not only NOT BE RE-ELECTED, rather, he will be impeached, dismissed, indicted, or, resign.

ARE YOU IN? Some of your fellow Trumpian on NT are in ($200 worth to date).

ARE YOU IN?

As a minister I do not gamble. I made no veiled threat. My point is clear. We have Veterans organizations that have garnered millions of Vets who have committed to defend the president from all enemies foreign and domestic as our oath prescribes

and as Hamilton wrote of

Alexander Hamilton Federalist 22

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents

Trump betrayed you every time he lied to you and everyone else … but I don't you and other Trump supporters …

" … rushing tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."

Don't spit in my face and tell me "it's raining."

Trump hasn’t betrayed me at all. His accomplishments are far beyond anything I expected

2 Supreme Court Justices

record number of federal judges confirmed

ISIS destroyed

rolling back regulations

tax cut passed

individual mandate for Obamacare repealed

support for Israel restored and US Embassy moved to Jerusalem 

NAFTA renogiated

US out of Iran deal

US out of Paris Accord

Veterans care strengthened

strong defense of our borders against illegals

immigration restrictions imposed and affirmed by Supreme Court

As a minister I do not gamble. I made no veiled threat.

No, you don't veil it, you come right out and, say it, you want a civil war, every post you put up is the same, war, war, war, war. What would the Jesus you profess to serve say about that?

My point is clear. We have Veterans organizations that have garnered millions of Vets who have committed to defend the president from all enemies foreign and domestic as our oath prescribes

Hmmm, I don't remember that oath, I remember one quite different,

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

en.wikipedia

No, we're pissing on your leg and saying the same thing. You're somewhat of an amusing guy who says a lot that amounts to little.  So....who's the person who is going to beat Trump? All the Dems look like losers so far.

And that’s our point. The Democrats are committed to destroying our Constitutional Republic 

Jesus never condoned self defense and in fact called for us to carry a self defense weapon

Luke 22:35,36

And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”

So they said, “Nothing.”

36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 

that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same....

That's what Trump is doing, day after day, in case you haven't looked. What are the Democrats doing lately for our country?

So....who's the person who is going to beat Trump? All the Dems look like losers so far.

Then you should jump at the chance to make me look like I'm pissing down my leg …

$25 for the American Cancer Society says Trump will not finish his term of office due to impeachment/dismissal, indictment or resignation!

Are you in?

millions of Vets who have committed to defend the president from all enemies foreign and domestic as our oath prescribes

that oath was to defend the Constitution and that's exactly what they will do if they wish to continue being referred to as Americans instead of domestic terrorists.

I vote for sooner.

I vote for been there, done that...

No we are defending the Constitutional Republic against domestic enemies who seek its destruction 

I vote for sooner.

I vote for been there, done that...

I Guess I'm still kinda slow to the gavel ......

But Like I say I stopped underestimating this man long ago and that includes his negatives. 

born again theocratic scum that voted for comrade trumpski?

Alexander Hamilton Federalist 22

Actually, you quoted from Federalist 28. Hamilton could not have predicted our ability to communicate instantaneously across the globe, so much of Federalist 28 is antiquated, including and ESPECIALLY the section you quoted. 

And that’s our point. The Democrats are committed to destroying our Constitutional Republic

Now you're back peddling on your claim that the oath taken by service members is one to protect the president when I proved it isn't. This president is being shown every day to be an enemy of the United States and, its Constitution and, you want to defend him and, you have constantly called for civil war on this site.

That's what Trump is doing, day after day, in case you haven't looked. What are the Democrats doing lately for our country?

You obviously are joking here right?

Well, the senate came together and didn't gain a 2/3 majority against President Clinton, though they probably should have, so making a 2/3 majority against President Trump is going to be a long haul for the left.

Yes, they did. Clinton was impeached, just not removed from office. He was censured by the Senate

Everything you mentioned shows how much republicans hate America

That's what Trump is doing, day after day

Pure unadultered bull shit 

Can't say I would kick Ivanka out of bed for eating popcorn.

The Dems won’t listen to sound advice. Nothing will deter them from showing their true Anti American colors

“ Mark Penn: House Democrats shouldn’t impeach Trump – It will anger voters and the Senate won’t remove him

The whole process of Mueller’s investigation of Russia’s interference in our 2016 presidential election and possible collusion between the Trump campaign – or Trump himself – and Russia to win the election has been flawed from its inception. Now it seems to be focused on payments for alleged consensual affairs and trying to criminalize them.

There have been a number of questionable actions by people in the FBI and the Justice Department before and throughout the Mueller probe. Eventually, the next attorney general will likely appoint a special counsel to investigate all of the retired, resigned and fired officials and whether their actions were politically motivated.

Trump’s approval ratings in polls right now are above where Presidents Clinton and Obama were at this same stage of their presidencies. According to the most recent RealClear Politics average of polls, Trump has an approval rating of about 43 percent and a disapproval rating of 52 percent.

The U.S. president is not viewed as negatively as French President Emmanuel Macron, whose approval ratings are below 20 percent.

In fact, members of Congress have Macron-like approval ratings, precisely because of their failure to get things done for the American people.

The question confronting Democrats at the start of the new year will be whether they want to repeat what the Republicans did in 1998, and whether it will have the same outcome. The most likely answers right now are yes and yes.

Mark Penn is managing director of the Stagwell Group. He was chief strategist on Bill Clinton’s 1996 presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton’s 2000 Senate campaign, and Mrs. Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign.”

foxnews

“Mark Penn: House Democrats shouldn’t impeach Trump – It will anger voters

Perhaps Mr. Penn missed the midterms.

Show where he’s wrong.  Tell us which 20 Republican Senators would vote to impeach.

Perhaps Mr. Penn missed the midterms.

Sentiment would be very different if impeachment were underway.

It would show that the Democrats really don't care about the country, only their agenda.

Tell us which 20 Republican Senators would vote to impeach.

I already addressed that … but for you, I repeat.

Prediction:

• House Democrats (in January or later) will file articles of impeachment against Trump

• The House will move to dismiss Trump from the Presidency

• The Senate will then be faced with having to vote 2/3 to dismiss which means a number of Republicans will have to vote for dismissal

• RATHER THAN REPUBLICANS VOTING "YAY" OR "NAY" AND RISKING THE POLITICAL FALLOUT EITHER WAY …

… they will urge Trump to resign a la Nixon/Watergate …

Wrong because conservatives would vote them out of office and they know it.

there are no crimes by Trump in office nor before he took office.

the left is obsessed with their delusional fantasy of reversing the 2016 election.  It will not happen

Show where he’s wrong.  Tell us which 20 Republican Senators would vote to impeach.

Well I can show were you're wrong. Senators don't vote to impeach, the House Impeaches. 

The House votes a bill of Impeachment forwarded to the Senate. The Senate conducts a trial of Impeachment overseen by SCOTUS.

the Senate casts the formal vote to impeach or not impeach

The House votes a bill of Impeachment forwarded to the Senate. The Senate conducts a trial of Impeachment overseen by SCOTUS.

Nope, it's a Resolution that contains the 'Articles of Impeachment'. 

the Senate casts the formal vote to impeach or not impeach

Actually, the Senate votes to CONVICT or NOT to CONVICT...

I’ll stand by what I stated and the text of the Constitution 

Article 1 Section 3

“The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments . When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.”

[Removed]

Well, thanks for the piece of obtuse wisdom.  Yes, the house drafts and votes on articles of impeachment, the senate tries the impeachee in a senate trial.  And that's where it ends.  Though I'm pretty sure you understood exactly what was being said and the meaning of it.

And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present...

but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.”

the Key word appears to be

"convicted" as Dulay pointed out.

Well, thanks for the piece of obtuse wisdom.

Back at ya. 

That's what Trump is doing, day after day

I've yet to see the trump ignorant republicans listen to anything

So much for collusion, huh? 

Is it legal for the Trump campaign to use the funds it raises to pay off mistresses?

It's his own money, and it can't be proved to have been campaign funds.

Is it legal for the Trump campaign to use the funds it raises to pay off mistresses?

Not if it constitutes lying for the purpose of deceiving voters.

Not if (AS A TAPED PHONE CONVERSATION REVEALS) Trump directed Cohen to make the payment, Cohen doing so by committing bank fraud, and, buying the rights to their stories then killing all publications.

Any other questions?

Not if it constitutes lying for the purpose of deceiving voters

Non discloure agreements are not "lying" or illegal.

ny other questions?

Please answer the one I asked. Can Trump use campaign funds  for non disclosure agreements? 

A non-disclosure ( confidentiality agreement)  is a legally binding contract in which a person or business promises to treat specific information as a trade secret and promises not to  disclose  the secret to others without proper authorization.

But, if an agreement is made UNDER THE FRAUDULENT GUISE OF a NDA, that is, in fact, lying.

Let's not split hairs here … let's call things what they are. 

The threshold legal question is whether the payments were made to keep Trump’s marriage together (for personal reasons) or to keep the campaign together (for political reasons).

Payments made  “for the purpose of influencing” a federal election  are covered by federal campaign finance law. Payments made for personal reasons are not.

According to Cohen, both of these payments were made to influence the election; he told us so in open court.

Any other questions?