James Comey: Take down the Confederate statues now

Via:  johnrussell  •  2 weeks ago  •  88 comments

James Comey: Take down the Confederate statues now
The Confederate statues of Richmond’s Monument Avenue weren’t erected to honor the service of brave warriors. Those soldiers had been dead for decades before the statues went up. No, the statues were put up by white people, beginning in the 1890s, to remind black people that, despite all that nonsense of Presidents Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant, as well as the so-called Reconstruction, we are back, and you are back down.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T







James Comey: Take down the Confederate statues now

















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The statue of Robert E. Lee on Monument Avenue in Richmond in June 2017. (Steve Helber/AP)









-


By James Comey




February 7 at 5:25 PM


James Comey is a former director of the FBI and a former deputy attorney general.


White people designed blackface to keep black people down, to intimidate, mock and stereotype. It began during the 19th century and wasn’t about white people honoring the talent of black people by dressing up to look like them. It was about mocking them and depicting them as lazy, stupid and less than fully human. It was a tool of oppression. As a college kid in Virginia during the 1980s, I knew that and so did my classmates. But a whole lot of white people seem to not know that history or understand why blackface is so offensive, whether it’s practiced by a college student or a new doctor. The turmoil in Virginia — where I have lived most of my adult life, including nine years in Richmond — may do some good if it reminds white people that a river of oppression runs through U.S. history, deep and wide, down to today.

But the reporters hurrying to the state capital to cover this important story about a poorly understood tool of white oppression are literally rushing past much larger and more powerful symbols of that oppression — symbols born of a similar desire to keep black people down. There is no doubt that Virginia’s leaders need to be held accountable for their personal history, but every Virginia leader is responsible for the racist symbols that still loom over our lives.

The Confederate statues of Richmond’s Monument Avenue weren’t erected to honor the service of brave warriors. Those soldiers had been dead for decades before the statues went up. No, the statues were put up by white people, beginning in the 1890s, to remind black people that, despite all that nonsense of Presidents Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant, as well as the so-called Reconstruction, we are back, and you are back down. The towering likenesses of Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and Stonewall Jackson weren’t put up to celebrate history or heritage; they were put up as a message: The 13th, 14th and 15th amendments to the Constitution aren’t going to help you black folks because the South has risen from that humiliation. Jim Crow — a name rooted in blackface mockery — is king.

If you doubt that well-documented history — if you are tempted to buy the “heritage, not hate” rhetoric — ask yourself this question: “Where are the statues of James Longstreet?” Remember: Longstreet was Lee’s most trusted general, his second-in-command, his “Old War Horse.” Longstreet was a brave and talented warrior for the Confederacy from beginning to end. But there aren’t any Longstreet statues in Richmond — and there weren’t any at all until 1998, at Gettysburg. That’s because his service to the United States continued after the Civil War, and he did something inconsistent with the purpose of the statues, and of blackface: He treated African Americans as citizens of the United States. Longstreet agreed to serve his reunified country, joined Lincoln’s Republican Party and helped Grant protect the rights of newly freed black Americans.

Longstreet committed two unforgivable sins in the eyes of white supremacists: He criticized Lee’s war leadership, and he led an African American militia to put down an 1874 white rebellion in Louisiana. That’s why this central figure in Civil War history is not depicted among the other Confederate statues in Richmond. The statues were about only a certain kind of heritage, just as blackface was about a certain kind of storytelling. It was about hate, not history or art.


  

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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

I'd like to see Comey become a columnist on national affairs. He seems to have a lot of common sense and straightforward opinions.

I like the way he debunks the silly notion that these statues represent Civil War history. They represent history alright,  the history of Jim Crow and attempt to whitewash the motives of the southern secession.

 
 
 
WallyW
1.1  WallyW  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

What is that history?

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Jasper2529
1.2  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one week ago
He seems to have a lot of common sense and straightforward opinions.

In October, 2016 Comey's opinions created a left-wing explosion. Even Hillary and her supporters blamed his opinions several times for her loss. But now, Comey has common sense and is straightforward? ROFL!

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @1.2    one week ago

Well, in all fairness, Comey's opinion saved Hillary from prosecution.

And yet, Democrats were entirely ungrateful for that gift.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.2.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    one week ago
in all fairness

     jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  Bob Nelson @1.2.2    one week ago

I'm sorry. I should know better to use a term you can't understand.

Forgive me?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.2.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.3    one week ago
Forgive me?

Of course! But then again... you needn't ask.

If you can decree your own fairness, surely you will also decree your own forgiveness...

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  Bob Nelson @1.2.4    one week ago

jrSmiley_7_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
dennis smith
1.2.6  dennis smith  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    one week ago

True for sure

 
 
 
dennis smith
1.3  dennis smith  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one week ago

Comey is an irrevelant has been. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
2  Sparty On    2 weeks ago

James Comeys attempt to remain relevant ....... how sad for him!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

lol. There is nothing "sad" about it. He is an intelligent, articulate person with an obvious ability for explaining things to the public in a straightforward way. Many of the mainstream news articles about the statues don't specifically state that they were put up as a symbol of white supremacy in the JIm Crow south, but they were. Their "historical" value in terms of the Civil War itself is almost non-existent.

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.1  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3    one week ago

Man, some folks sure had a different opinion of him when he informed Congress of the emails on Weiner's computer.

 
 
 
dennis smith
3.2  dennis smith  replied to  JohnRussell @3    one week ago

He was fired fired from his job by the duly elected POTUS. Had he done the right thing regarding Clinton he would still have his job.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4  Tacos!    one week ago

On the list of people I wish would shut the hell up, James Comey is right up there. It's not about what he says about this or that specific issue. It's about how he's more about promoting himself than standing up for anything right. People on the Left and the Right are sick of him and with good reason.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @4    one week ago
The Confederate statues of Richmond’s Monument Avenue weren’t erected to honor the service of brave warriors. Those soldiers had been dead for decades before the statues went up. No, the statues were put up by white people, beginning in the 1890s, to remind black people that, despite all that nonsense of Presidents Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant, as well as the so-called Reconstruction, we are back, and you are back down.
-
James Comey

100% true.

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2  MUVA  replied to  Tacos! @4    one week ago

He wants a another 15 minutes.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  MUVA @4.2    one week ago

address the topic, all of you, or i will have your future comments deleted

 
 
 
MUVA
4.2.2  MUVA  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.1    one week ago

That is part of the topic he is self serving. I happen to agree they should move the statutes to museums  but don't need a sanctimonious jackass point of  View.I actually had  ancestors that were slaves on my dads mothers side of family they were taken for Liberia.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.2.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  MUVA @4.2.2    one week ago
That is part of the topic he is self serving.

There is nothing self serving about the article.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.2.4  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.3    one week ago

You're missing the point John. It's not the article that's self-serving. It's Comey who is self-serving and his comments should be viewed through that lens. I wouldn't want these statues in my town, but that's not that the point. Do you really believe James Comey gives two shits about confederate statues? Based on what? His long record of fighting such things?

He's running for president (or hopes to), trying to sell books, or promote himself in some other way and is saying something he thinks supporters will want to hear.

 
 
 
bugsy
4.2.5  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2.1    one week ago

Comey should realize that the top leadership in Virginia are Democrats. The top of the list is a black faced racist governor, the top lawmaker is another black face AG.

Why should they want to take them down? It was their party that put them up in the first place.

 
 
 
Badfish Hαηd ⊕Ƒ †Hε Ωuεεη
5  Badfish Hαηd ⊕Ƒ †Hε Ωuεεη    one week ago

We need the Confederate statues in Virginia to resign.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Badfish Hαηd ⊕Ƒ †Hε Ωuεεη @5    one week ago
We need the Confederate statues in Virginia to resign.

Yes we do.

 
 
 
It Is ME
6  It Is ME    one week ago

"But the reporters hurrying to the state capital to cover this important story about a poorly understood tool of white oppression are literally rushing past much larger and more powerful symbols of that oppression — symbols born of a similar desire to keep black people down. There is no doubt that Virginia’s leaders need to be held accountable for their personal history, but every Virginia leader is responsible for the racist symbols that still loom over our lives."

Like "Statutes" actually run your life ……….. Pffffft !

ONLY "YOU", can prevent "Stupidity" !

320

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
7  Ed-NavDoc    one week ago

I will say nothing more other than that I strongly disagree with Mr Comey's assessments

 
 
 
JohnRussell
7.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @7    one week ago

If a magnificent statue of a Confederate general was erected 30 or 40 years or 50 after the war, what was the purpose of that statue?

We KNOW that this was the era of Jim Crow, and legalized segregation in the south. What is the reason such statues were needed or wanted?

 
 
 
WallyW
7.1.1  WallyW  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    one week ago
What is the reason such statues were needed or wanted?

Well, they been been up for what, a hundred years or more now? What's the point of tearing them down at this late stage? Most people don't pay any more attention to these statues than they do a traffic sign on the street. It just seems to be some easily triggered people trying to rewrite or undue history, and it is a useless exercise.

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1.2  MUVA  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    one week ago

I agree with democrats of that area sole purpose was to thumb blacks in the eye I would be interested to see who supported it being erected in the first place.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
7.1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  WallyW @7.1.1    one week ago

Is that the best you can do?

Why is it a late stage?

If a monument to slavery itself had been erected a "hundred years" ago, would you say that it might as well stay up because what would be the point of removing it at this "late stage"?

Removing these statues is not difficult. A city crew could do each of them in a day.

It just seems to be some easily triggered people trying to rewrite or undue history,

What exactly is the 'history' that you think removing the statues would harm?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  WallyW @7.1.1    one week ago
Well, they been been up for what, a hundred years or more now?

This is important. The monuments only started going up in serious numbers after 1900, and on through the  '30s. That is, fifty years after the war.

The monuments were tools for rewriting history: eliminating slavery and promoting the myth of "the loyal Negro". They were never really about the soldiers.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.1.5  Kavika   replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.4    one week ago

It seems that Robert E. Lee wasn't fond of monuments. 

At the center of the “Unite the Right” rally that turned deadly in Charlottesville last weekend was a protest of the city’s plan to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee. White supremacists, neo-Nazis and others have made monuments to the Confederate commanding general a flashpoint — at times marching to keep them standing.

But Lee himself never wanted such monuments built.

“I think it wiser,” the retired military leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg memorial in 1869, “…not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”

WATCH:The shifting history of Confederate monuments

Lee died in 1870, just five years after the Civil War ended, contributing to his rise as a romantic symbol of the “lost cause” for some white southerners.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.6  Bob Nelson  replied to  Kavika @7.1.5    one week ago

Lee had a lot of conflicts.

He was probably very tired when he died.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.1.7  Kavika   replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.6    one week ago

I've always looked at the statues as ''monuments to losers''.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.8  Bob Nelson  replied to  Kavika @7.1.7    one week ago

The monuments are comprehensible only when you understand that they have nothing to do with the Civil War. They are all about Jim Crow.

Dog whistles in granite.

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.9  bugsy  replied to  MUVA @7.1.2    one week ago
I would be interested to see who supported it being erected in the first place.

Democrats.....who apparently approve of them today. Ask their top leadership why they haven't taken them down.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
7.1.10  KDMichigan  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.3    one week ago
What exactly is the 'history' that you think removing the statues would harm?

The reminder that Democrats will do anything to get there way. Even tearing a country apart.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
7.1.11  KDMichigan  replied to  Kavika @7.1.7    one week ago
I've always looked at the statues as ''monuments to losers''.

To be honest I never looked at them as racist but I'm born and raised in northern Michigan. Now the Rebel flag I always looked at as a joke when people flew them in the north, like you I was of the mind of the south lost and you are flying the loser flag. I think Dukes of hazard had a lot to do with the popularity of the rebel flag. But I don't consider those who fly it racist.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.12  Bob Nelson  replied to  KDMichigan @7.1.11    one week ago

The Vice-president of the Confederacy, Alexander H. Stephens, said:

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science.

The Confederacy was about slavery.

Confederate flags commemorate slavery.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
7.1.13  KDMichigan  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.12    one week ago

impasse

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.14  bugsy  replied to  KDMichigan @7.1.11    one week ago

I live in North Florida, and when I was 17, I put a Confederate flag on the back window of my truck, mainly because it was quite popular in the 80s, with Dukes of Hazard leading the way. Since then I have dedicated 20 years of my life to the county via the military, traveled the world, enjoying Asia the most, and have been married to an Asian woman coming up on 30 years.

If I were running for office today, liberals would call me a racist.

In contrast, they don't really care of Northam resigns. They HAVE to call for his resignation, or the ones who are running for President will get hammered from all corners of the country.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.15  Bob Nelson  replied to  KDMichigan @7.1.13    one week ago

If you do not want to discuss the significance of Confederate symbols... That's OK.

Your use of "impasse", when I have posted only once, is improper. Just tell me you don't want a conversation.

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.1.16  Split Personality  replied to  bugsy @7.1.14    one week ago
If I were running for office today, liberals would call me a racist.

Nonsense unless 

you still sport the CSA battle flag on your current ride.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.17  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1.14    one week ago

When you were 17, you may not have understood the symbolism of a Confederate flag. Now you are an adult.

The Confederacy was all about slavery. The Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery.

You have the right to fly the Confederate flag. In doing so, you declare your support of slavery.

It's not rocket science.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
7.1.18  KDMichigan  replied to  bugsy @7.1.14    one week ago
They HAVE to call for his resignation,

True, otherwise they look like hypocrites.

I personally think the whole blackface crap is a nothing burger but with the PC democrats the way they are now, they need to be held accountable.jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

Now Fairfax is another story.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.1.19  Kavika   replied to  bugsy @7.1.14    one week ago
If I were running for office today, liberals would call me a racist.

I don't think so bugsy. I'm a democrat and actually a minority and I wouldn't call you a racist. Now if you were still running around with a confederate flag flying they we'd be having a different discussion. 

BTW, I'm in north central Florida. 

 
 
 
KDMichigan
7.1.20  KDMichigan  replied to  Kavika @7.1.19    one week ago
Now if you were still running around with a confederate flag flying they we'd be having a different discussion

What if you're black? I have seen a black  guy driving a truck with the film on his back window and a front license plate. Of the confederate flag that is.

 
 
 
Kavika
7.1.21  Kavika   replied to  KDMichigan @7.1.20    one week ago
What if you're black? I have seen a black  guy driving a truck with the film on his back window and a front license plate. Of the confederate flag that is.

There are always the exceptions KD. I would say that your not going to see a lot of blacks running around with a Confederate flag flying. 

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.22  bugsy  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.16    one week ago
Nonsense

Then why do democrats call for the resignation of Virginia governor and AG? They are not running around black faced, and as far as we know, have not done so for decades.

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.23  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.17    one week ago
When you were 17, you may not have understood the symbolism of a Confederate flag.

So why are democrats calling for the demise of the Virginia governor and AG? One was a teen and the other was early to mid 20s. Maybe they did not know the symbolism of black face in Virginia at such young ages and at the period of time? If I would not be considered a racist in the 80s, why would they during the same time period?

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.24  bugsy  replied to  Kavika @7.1.21    one week ago
I would say that your not going to see a lot of blacks running around with a Confederate flag flying. 

Probably not alot, but a few years ago, I remember a couple of black guys in trucks flying the Confederate flag while driving the beaches of St Augustine..

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.25  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1.23    one week ago

I pretty much agree with you there. Twenty-year-old mistakes, never repeated, are prescribed.

Do I understand that you no longer fly a Confederate flag? May I ask why you abandoned it?

 
 
 
Split Personality
7.1.26  Split Personality  replied to  bugsy @7.1.22    one week ago

You would have to ask someone ( or a known Democrat ) who wants him to step down over

a costume party.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.1.27  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1    one week ago
"What is the reason such statues were needed or wanted?"

Maybe for the same reason Auschwitz is maintained so the public can view it.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"   (Spanish-American philosopher George Santayana)

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.28  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.25    one week ago
Do I understand that you no longer fly a Confederate flag?

Yes, I have not had one since before I joined the Navy in 1985, at 18 years old.

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.29  bugsy  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.26    one week ago
You would have to ask someone

Honestly, I don't have to ask anyone. Democrats, many who are running for President, are in front of cameras or tweeting they should resign. They are doing it because they HAVE to, not because they really believe they should.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.30  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1.28    one week ago
Yes, I have not had one since... 1985...

May I ask why not? The statute of limitations is long since past for that first car.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.31  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.1.27    one week ago
so the public can view it.

I would agree, on condition that a big plaque be added, indicating who put up the monument, when and why.

If the monument was the work of the Daughters of the Confederacy, then a second plaque should describe that organization.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.32  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1.29    one week ago
Democrats... are in front of cameras...

Yes. I find this phenomenon fascinating.

Republicans - so tightly linked with the Values Voters "Christian" right - can get away with any sort of misbehavior, while the satanic Democrats actually hold their members accountable!

One party talks the talk, the other walks the walk.

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.33  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.30    one week ago

Not sure what you are asking...

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.34  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.32    one week ago

Not really. As I said, Democrats are in front of cameras because they HAVE to be, especially those running for President, not because they actually believe he should step down.

Honestly, I don't think he should step down because something that happened decades ago should not be held against you in the present...except maybe sexual assault.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.35  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1.33    one week ago
Not sure what you are asking...

Why don't you fly the Confederate flag any more?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.36  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1.34    one week ago

Democratic leadership has been quick to discipline unacceptable behavior.

Republican leadership has not.

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.37  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.35    one week ago
Why don't you fly the Confederate flag any more?

Because it was nothing more than a fad. Like I said, the Dukes of Hazard played a part and so did peer pressure, as many teens in the 80s here did.

To us back then, it was just cool to do so. It had nothing to do with racism, Jim Crowe, slavery, whatever. Those were never considered.

 
 
 
bugsy
7.1.38  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.36    one week ago
Democratic leadership has been quick to discipline unacceptable behavior. Republican leadership has not.

You and I both know that is an incorrect assessment. I am not going to address it because of how wrong it is.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
7.1.39  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1.37    one week ago
Those were never considered.

Kids can be pretty oblivious...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.1.40  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.31    one week ago

That's fair.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
8  Bob Nelson    one week ago

During this Fall's road trip, we visited Harper's Ferry. It's a Park Service site.

A Ranger gave a detailed historical talk about Confederate monuments. The essence was that the monuments were rare in the wake of the war, and numerous after 1900.

The monuments were an attempt - quite successful - to rewrite history, erasing slavery in favor of states' rights.

As usual, the Park Service was brilliant.

 
 
 
charger 383
8.1  charger 383  replied to  Bob Nelson @8    one week ago

        "are in the wake of the war, and numerous after 1900."

and Harper's Ferry became a monument in 1944 and National Park in 1963, so it is somewhat like the statues.      

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
8.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  charger 383 @8.1    one week ago

I don't know the history of the NPS, but I think that "Historical Sites" like Harper's Ferry are relatively recent. The first parks were all "natural wonder" sites. Now there's a wide variety.

 
 
 
charger 383
8.1.2  charger 383  replied to  Bob Nelson @8.1.1    one week ago

Harper's Ferry is a natural wonder and very beautiful where Potomac and Shenandoah Rivers meet and the restored buildings are nice.  I like the Railroad bridges and the Appalachian Trail crosses the Potomac on a walkway on one bridge and you can walk on it.   I go there to watch the trains 

Harper's Ferry was site of attack on US government before the Civil Was and Robert E Lee was sent to put down the attack 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
9  Vic Eldred    one week ago

"James Comey is a former director of the FBI and a former deputy attorney general."



So much ideology from a public servant.......Hum... I wonder why Obama appointed him to head the FBI?

 
 
 
Ender
10  Ender    one week ago

We have a museum that is willing to take statues. So far not one place has decided to let that happen. Even New Orleans that has taken down statues and has them in storage.

They offered to take the Virginia statue, and pay for the cost involved.

I always thought it was a good idea. Apparently neither side of the isle is wanting to let it happen.

BILOXI, Miss. (AP) — The final home of the president of the Confederacy is being offered as a new home for Confederate monuments.

Beauvoir, a beachside estate on the Mississippi Gulf Coast, was Jefferson Davis' retirement home. Now it's a privately run museum in Biloxi. Its director issued a statement Thursday offering to take monuments that "any city or jurisdiction has decided to take down."

Thursday's offer follows violence at a white nationalist rally held in Charlottesville, Virginia, amid plans there to remove a statue of Gen. Robert E. Lee.

Executive director Tom Payne says Beauvoir would hope for donations but would consider raising funds to cover any costs of relocating the monuments.

He says the monuments could serve an educational purpose for visitors while being displayed in gardens out of general public view.

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2017/aug/18/jefferson-davis-estate-offered-new-home-monuments/

The place is a museum, has a library, extensive grounds and has a civil war graveyard on the site.

IMO the kind of place these statues should be.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Ender @10    one week ago

A shrine is a sort of museum...

 
 
 
Ender
10.1.1  Ender  replied to  Bob Nelson @10.1    one week ago

It is actually a national historic landmark.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
10.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Ender @10.1.1    one week ago

Oh... That may be the problem. NPS is highly dubious of Civil War monuments. Too many are symbols of Jim Crow.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
11  Buzz of the Orient    one week ago

Next to happen:

It will be illegal for the following songs to be played in America on radio, television, movies, public concerts, or in any way to be heard in public, or publishing the lyrics or selling any publication that contains the lyrics of these songs:

Waiting for the Robert E Lee

On the Robert E Lee

God Bless Robert E Lee

You Aren't Just Whistlin' Dixie

Aunt Maggie's Remedy

Sam Hall

Virginia Plain

The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down

Throw Your Love My Way

Son of the South

Why Must You Always Dress in Black

Johnny Reb

Down Yonder

The Cotton's Burning

Dixieland You Will Never Die

The Southern Thing

The Weight

West Texas Holiday

Oregon Hill

Language of the Dead

Ragged Old Flag

Carry Me Back to Virginia

I Wanna Go Back to Dixie

The Myth is Real - Let's Eat

UI + Me = Us

Accidental Racist

.....Because there are some whose feelings will be hurt if they hear or read their lyrics.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
11.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @11    one week ago

Your comments on these race related issues are getting stranger and stranger Buzz. 

To play on the words of Dean Wormer in Animal House,  -  Being this obsessed about supposed "pc" is no way to go through life. 

-

LOL

I feel fairly sure the average American has never heard of 90% of the songs you just listed. What the hell is your point? 

Do you know ANYTHING about the genesis of these confederate statues?  Where when and WHY they were constructed?  I seeded an article so that people like you who dont know the information could get a perspective on it.  

What do you do?  You make a so called big deal out of some songs. 

Your performance on the blackface seed left a lot to be desired as well. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
11.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @11.1    one week ago

My point?  Every one of those American songs mentions Robert E Lee in the lyrics.

Ah yes, blackface.  That was a different time, right?  And the person criticized for using blackface in his college days did it during a different time as well, did he not?  I guess it would have been all right if a white man were to sing "Mammy".  Another question, is it okay to show movies with African-Americans in menial positions, such as in Gone With the Wind?  If it's okay because such movies are historic, so are the statues, are they not?  Hide the statues, burn the movies and books?  I had always thought Uncle Remus a lovable old guy.

Please do not imply that my comments are racist - I've been happily married to a Chinese woman for more than 10 years now.  Oh, and I caused a bit of a foo-fer-ah at my university in 1957 when I particularly chose a Jamaican-Canadian to be the VP of the Sociology Club when I was its President. That was before the Civil Rights Movement and attitudes were a little different then.  As well, I used Dr. King's 'I Had a Dream' speech for my Chinese students to practise their English pronunciation.

That's it, John - I know a differing opinion is not welcome here.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
11.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @11.1.1    one week ago

Buzz, you start from your desired conclusion and then try to rearrange the facts to fit it. 

The statues were not erected to represent an honest commemoration of history, they were created long after the war in order to remind the black population that the Confederacy was still fondly in the thoughts of the white population. The argument that they need to stay because they are "history" is absurd. The history they entail is the history of racism. I asked someone else and they evidently got tongue tied.  What if some of these statues were actual tributes to slavery itself , maybe a plantation owner standing on a veranda proudly gazing over the cotton fields with a figure or two of slaves toiling in the background.  Would you leave such a statue up because it is "history"? 

Blackface is racist. It was created for a racist purpose and used throughout history to racist effect. It doesn't matter if Al Jolson used it harmlessly. 

Was Gone With The Wind written and made with the intention of promoting white supremacy, like the statues were? 

If it was then yes it will have to be put in the dustbin of history. I don't think it was , but eventually that is a determination that newer generations will make. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
11.1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @11.1.2    one week ago
"...they were created long after the war in order to remind the black population that the Confederacy was still fondly in the thoughts of the white population."

Do you have any proof of that or is it merely an opinion?  Did any of the persons who erected those statues record that they wanted them to remind the black population of their suppression or was it to remind the descendants of their ancestors who fought bravely to maintain their rights - right or wrong?  Were they not to commemorate soldiers who bravely fought in the American Civil War, just as the Iwo Jima flag raisers were memorialized with statues?  I doubt that the Japanese-Americans resent the existence of those statues. Have any of them said so?  I think that all of this is just a product of excessive liberal PC and social justice extremism done for nothing more than political purposes.

I would agree with you if they were statues of plantation owners with whips in their hands overlooking their slaves picking cotton, but they are NOT.  Some of your REVERED political figures were slave owners, were they not?  Do they have statues erected to memorialize them - they sure as hell do.

But then I'm not an American, so the whole thing is no skin off my teeth.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
11.1.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @11.1.3    one week ago
Do you have any proof of that or is it merely an opinion?

There's plenty of proof, Buzz, if you want to do a little research. I was fortunate enough to hear an NPS presentation on the topic. The ranger had lots of documentation.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
11.1.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson @11.1.4    one week ago

Well, if there's plenty of proof, why are you putting me to that task?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
11.1.6  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @11.1.5    one week ago
why are you putting me to that task?

I'm not.

You have several options:
- you can take my word for it,
- you can assume I'm lying,
- you can assume I don't know what I'm talking about,
- you can do the research...

Your choices....

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
12  Buzz of the Orient    one week ago

Okay, I agree that this part of the statement is most likely true:

"...the Confederacy was still fondly in the thoughts of the white population."

But I'm skeptical that this part of it is...:

"...in order to remind the black population..."

...no matter what your sources say.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
12.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @12    one week ago

I'd post a picture of a lynching, but Perrie would delete it.

Keeping Blacks down was a considerable task.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
12.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson @12.1    one week ago

That's an inflammatory and unnecessary statement and does not apply to the issue we were discussing.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
12.1.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @12.1.1    one week ago
does not apply

It absolutely does apply!

Rewriting history about the origins of the Civil War was a means of keeping Blacks in their place. Monument building was physically milder than lynching, but the idea of the Loyal Slave was psychological warfare.

 
 
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