No Trump Building In Kurdistan, So Kurds Go Under The Bus
The Kurds have no power on the world stage, no prime real estate on which to build Trump hotels or Trump condos, and no oligarchy or autocrat leaders for Trump to cozy up to, so naturally, President* Trump has little to no interest in the welfare of the Kurds.
It has been announced that the US is pulling its troops from the area that has served as a buffer between the Kurds and the Turkish military which seeks to annihilate them. The Kurds have been assisting the US and the anti-ISIS coalition in the region for years, and are considered to have been indispensable to the success the West had in defeating ISIS within Syria and Iraq.
But Turkey wants to invade the areas of Syria where the Kurds are
The United States began withdrawing American troops from Syria’s border with Turkey early Monday, in the clearest sign yet that the Trump administration was washing its hands of an explosive situation between the Turkish military and U.S.-allied Kurdish fighters.
The withdrawal followed a late Sunday statement by the White House that the United States would not intervene in a long-threatened Turkish offensive into northern Syria. The announcement, which signaled an abrupt end to a months-long American effort to broker peace between two important allies, came after a call between President Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
Erdogan said in a speech Monday that the withdrawal began soon after their phone call.
White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said the Turkish leader would “soon be moving forward” with dispatching troops to battle Kurdish forces who Ankara sees as terrorists but whom have been a chief U.S. partner against the Islamic State.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-to-pull-troops-from-northern-syria-as-turkey-readies-offensive/2019/10/07/a965e466-e8b3-11e9-bafb-da248f8d5734_story.html
President* Trump is famously "transactional" . If you want help from him you generally need to be able to offer him something of value to his bottom line or his ego. The Kurds usefulness to Trump ended when he declared victory over ISIS last year.
Turkey has resort areas that could use another Trump property some day.
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Trump's actions are being described as a betrayal of an ally.
And let me guess when the piece of shit Obama abandoned the Kurds and refused to supply them with weapons to fight ISIS I bet we didn't hear a peep out of you. Was it a betrayal of a ally then JR?
Conservatives are too afraid to answer direct questions. Always pivot to Obama or Clinton.
No pivot its a statement of fact. The left had no problem when bitch ass Obama abandoned the Kurds then refused to give them arms to defend themselves. I'm going to take a shot in the dark here but I'm willing to bet there was the same faux rage when bush did it. But yeah we know, Trump hurts peoples feeling.
Hmmmmmm....... news sources say otherwise that the Obama Admin DID support the Kurds.
If anyone abandoned the Kurds, it was H. Bush after the PG war.
You tell me. WHO IS BETRAYING ANOTHER ALLY?
It's not a fetish. They died to get rid of ISIS for us. Over 60.000 fighters are still there as are their families. The American troops said they will not leave them. It is not about war, it is about not allowing an Islamist to take over the region and commit genocide as Turkey has done many times before.
I believe in supporting those who supported us.
Oh and one last thing. They are the ones who are watching the imprisoned ISIS fighters. The very ones that Turkey supported. So yeah, I have a big problem with Turkey.
I dont answer or even see every question made to me, which I think is the same thing most people do (not answer every question) .
If I answered every question I would be on one thread all day long. The "conservatives" here are always full of questions (but few answers).
"described"? It is a betrayal of an ally. This time I happen to agree with you John. Trump had the US and it's allies take on ISIS in eastern Syria with approx 2,000 US special forces and 60,000 Kurd fighters. The Kurds lost 11,000 men in that conflict. I know that Trump wants out and Turkey is also an ally, but the Turks will almost certainly kill off those who did most of the bleeding in the fight against ISIS. Warnings to Turkey won't prevent the inevitable.
So you're OK with more American troops get killed and wounded. That's the end result of staying in this shit hole region.
Are you OK sending the message that we are not to be trusted as an ally? Because leaving now to let Turkey invade will do that, and even worse.
Study up on your history about Turkey and Erdogan's government. There is only a win for them and a huge loss for us.
Trump's actions are being described as a betrayal of an ally.
Its being described that way because it is.
And if we can do that to the Kurds, obviously other allies are starting to get nervous.that trump will stab them in the back as well.
Trump's actions are being described as a betrayal of an ally.
Its being described that way because it is.
And if we can do that to the Kurds, obviously other allies are starting to get nervous.that trump will stab them in the back as well.
Like, for example, Israel:
Israelis Watch U.S. Abandon Kurds, and Worry: Who's Next ...
Jordan? The Baltic countries? Georgia? Maybe even Denmark?
Trump is impu lsive-- there's no tellingwho he might speak to on the 'phone next-- and suddenly decide to screw another of our allies....
I'm not happy with this decision of Trump's. We were happy to arm the Kurds in other fights and to use them as pawns against both Iraq and later ISIS. We should stay in place IMO.
And if Turkey attacks, would they then not be going to war against a member of NATO themselves?
No it isn't an attack on the US, but the Kurds did a lot of our dirty work there and promises were made, and now we are not holding up to these promises. This is not the first time. They have been screwed by many administrations. My question is why we even have relations with Turkey, who is the most hateful country in Europe. They are genocidal and have wiped out all of their Christian populations.
And frankly I have never been happy about how the Kurds have been treated by the US. We ask for their help and make promises and then they die for trusting us. It's a dirty business.
sorry, I wasn't clear. I am not in favor of pulling out and leaving the Kurds to fend for themselves. And if we remain there, than any attack against the Kurds is also going to be an attack against us and we are members of NATO. Additionally, what's the guarantee that Turkey will keep Iran out of there? If Turkey turns a blind eye to Iran, that moves Iran closer to Israel. Another bad move.
While I would love to get out of these endless wars, I am having a hard time not seeing the long-term issues.
No, but you don't make deal with Erdogan. Even Europe knows this.
Excellent comment! Well done!
What about Afghanistan? We have thousands more troops there than in Syria.And we've been there a long, long time-- its by fat the longest war in American history.
(To say nothing of the fact that the Kurds have been loyal allies-- but every so often some Afghani shoots a U.S. soldier.)..
There is no Kurdistan, you do understand that right? You can't point to it on the map because it doesn't exist.
Also, the article fails to mention that Russia, China, and Iran are in Syria. All have vested interests in Syria- and will not look kindly upon a Turkish invasion.
Finally, the Kurdish are not stupid and they have been negotiating with Russia, China, and Syria for this day.
You want to blame someone; then blame the butt munch Bush Jr and Obama. Bush Jr created ISIS/ISIL with his invasion of Iraq and handing control of Iraq over to Shai loyal to Iran. Obama, in his asinine expansion of the war on terror- and hoping for regime change in Syria, started bombing ISIS/ISIL in Syria, and arming and training "moderate" Sunni fighters. He didn't foresee Russia and China entering Syria to protect their interests.
So what it the left's plan for Syria? Continue to throw money into a never ending proxy war? Start WWIII over a third world wannabee Syia in order to remove Assad?
If the world is so concerned about the fate of the Kurds, then NATO(minus the US), EU, UN, or other Middle Eastern countries can step up to the plate and put their money and military where their mouths are.
The leader of Turkey says the invasion could begin "tomorrow". Are Russia or China going to be there to meet the invasion? The US doesnt have an army there, but it has a symbolic presence which has signaled to turkey "dont do this". Now Trump has decided to give Turkey permission to attack a group that has shed blood to advance US interests in the region.
The Kurds have point blank said today that the US has betrayed them. Are you proud of that?
Is Turkey going to attack us?
What we've been doing up until now.
Erdogan is a tyrant, and has done some stupid things. But seriously-- do you actually think he's be stupid enough to attack U.S. troops?
So we've had a small contingent of troops there. Positioned so that it would stop Erdogan from attacking the SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces-- mainly Kurds but also some pro-democracy Muslims and a few indigenous Christians). Erdogan wants to attack them-- but knows that if he did American troops would be victims as well.
So as long as American troops are there-- Erdogan won't attacdks the Kurds and their allies.
People remember the disaster that was the U.S. war on Iraq. Yuge number of U.S. troops, therefore yuge number of U.S. military casualties.And of course in addition to those killed, there were those physically maimed for life-- and large number with PTSD.
But this is different-- the number of troops we have there is tiny . . .
I googled to find out how many-- and its not exactly like our deployment during the Iraq war!!!
From early this year (Feb. 2019)
WASHINGTON (AFP) — President Donald Trump insisted Friday he was not pulling an about-face on his Syria withdrawal plans, after it was announced hundreds of US troops would remain in the war-torn country.
The White House quietly dropped the news late Thursday that around 200 American “peacekeeping” soldiers would remain in Syria indefinitely, amid fierce criticism of Trump’s decision to withdraw America’s more than 2,000 troops there by April 30.
So calling those who want those 200 troops to remain could hardly be accused of being pro-war "neo-cons"!!!
Because they are smart people-- and know that the U.S. is no longer a reliable ally they can trust....
Because they are smart people-- and know that the U.S. is no longer a reliable ally they can trust....
And our blatant betrayal of the Kurds sends a strong message to our other allies..and potential allies...as well
Nonsense. Why are our so called "allies" not pulling their share of the load?
Nonsense?
The Syrian Democratic Forces (pro-democracy Kurds, Arabs, and indigenous Christians) are!
The Israelis are-- although they usually don't admit it. (When you read about an air attack on Assad's forces (or some terrorist group in Syria) that no one claims responsibility for, its almost always the Israelis-- after all, Syria in right on their border.so those forces pose a direct threat to Israel).
And then there's this:
As a significant part of Syria′s territory was from 2014 until October 2017 claimed by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an entity internationally recognised as terrorist, a number of Western and other countries, most notably the U.S., Russia, Britain, and France, have participated in direct military action against ISIL in the territory of Syria.
Maybe because we are so reliable, that we cut out on those that have helped us.
That's funny, because the Encyclopedia Britannica points to it on a map.
Iraq is divided for administrative purposes into 18 muḥāfaẓāt (governorates), 3 of which constitute the autonomous Kurdistan Region .
Kurdistan, Arabic Kurdistān , Persian Kordestān , broadly defined geographic region traditionally inhabited mainly by Kurd s. It consists of an extensive plateau and mountain area, spread over large parts of what are now eastern Turkey , northern Iraq , and western Iran and smaller parts of northern Syria and Armenia . Two of these countries officially recognize internal entities by this name: Iran’s northwestern province of Kordestān and Iraq’s Kurdish autonomous region.
The Kurdistan (“Land of the Kurds”) designation refers to an area of Kurdish settlement that roughly includes the mountain systems of the Zagros and the eastern extension of the Taurus . Since ancient times the area has been the home of the Kurds, a people whose ethnic origins are uncertain.
Encyclopedia Britannica
The Kurds were supposed to regain the independence of their ancient homeland (Treaty of Sevres, early 1900s IIRC), but their land has been illegally occupied by Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iran). Kurds living in what is now these 4 countries have been severely persecuted...
I never said it was a country. You cant keep up, so why do you try?
So am I.
Reports are that Trump is tweeting some form of backtracking. That is hardly a surprise either. He puts his toe in stupid water, gets a lot of criticism, and falls back.
The move announced last night has got a lot of criticism from conservatives.
We get it...you have no problem putting American troops in harm's way and keeping them there.
And neither does Mitch McConnell-- and the majority of Republicans in Congress (who are much better informed than many people in this discussion!
(Link)
They are only in harm's way (and btw they don't feel that way) if Erdogan attacks. Do you really think he is that stupid?
you go girl
Well if only the Dems opposed him he obviously wouldn't backtrack. But most (probably all but one a very few) republicans oppose Trump's move-- including Mitch McConnell so its probably not surprising.
(After all, while there a trump Tower in Istanbul, I doubt if many (any?) Republicans own property in Turkey-- so they don't have athe financial incentive that Trump does to kow-tow to Turkey-- and put Turkey's interests ahead of the interests of our country!
Like if Turkey decided to "GO", 1,000 American guys and gals were going to stop them ?
Pulling maybe a total of 1,000 Americans out of there, and forcing "Others" to take up the slack, sounds okay to me.
Trump: "It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory."
1000 Americans keep them from deciding to "GO".
I'd say it's more the "Talks" going on, than the miniscule Men and Women Count over there.
Do you seriously believe Erdogan would launch an attack on the Kurds if he thought it meant injuring-- probably killing-- a few American troops?
He may be a litle crazy-- but he's not that crazy!
No nation is going to attack anywhere American troops are stationed. That's doubly true for a NATO nation.
Then, like Like Trump said:
"It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory"
Or
There are other Big NATO members that could take our place in "Directing" and "Training" over there !
And just what might be the American response to American personnel being killed and wounded from Turkish artillery and airstrikes?
Same as all "Friendly Fire" goes over there. Maybe a review here and there, but Not much more !
Turkey is a NATO member.
And they shouldn't be. They have just recently cleaned the country of all non Muslims. Does that sound like a country we would want in NATO?
I tend to agree with you. In times of trouble, let nations freely decide what they are going to do, and that would keep the foxes like Turkey out of the hen house.
But they are !
We Should always Trust our NATO Allies.
Isn't it great that Trump always Pressures NATO to do their part ?
Maybe he can pressure them to get Turkey out of the "Alliance" ?
Not a chance!
The bear still swims, meaning the Russians still have ICBM Submarines they are putting to sea, and those missiles are pointed at US!
The bear still has wings…. meaning they are still invading other countries airspace with nuke capable bombers.
The bear still has teeth..... Just ask Eastern Ukraine about that.
I'll give you credit for sticking to your beliefs Fish..... but the world is almost as dangerous as it was in the early 1980s. Maybe even more so now that you have so many "unaligned countries. You want to pull back....? I suggest you do some research on critical mineral imports for our economy and national defense. Tungsten, vanadium, and rare earth magnets just for starters.
Take care.
You are unfamiliar with the politicsa of the area. Those SAmerican troops are stationed strategically to prevent Turkey from attacking the Kurds.
How?
becasue if you knew anything about Erdogan, as crazy as he is there's no way he would launch an attack that would harm American troops! It would be totally nuts and he knows it!
And there are other Allied nations that could take our place in training and directing.....since the other nations are sooooo concerned about this withdrawal.
Last time I cheeked, Brits are there, French are there, even some German special forces units are deployed.
Then they can handle it !
Or can they ?
I remember when Britain, France and Germany were "Super Powers". Let them "Power" through it.
Truth? This is new information for me. I always thought that they prefer to stay away. If so, it's reassuring.
If I'm not mistaken, there are upwards of 60 countries involved in on way or another in the fight against ISIS there in Syria.
Well, apparently Mitch McConnell and the majority of Republicans are much better informed than you are about the situation-- and the necessity of not betraying our allies-- and not making a stupid move which would assist ISIS and other terror groups
Mitch McConnell Joins Other Republicans In Rebuking Trump’s Syria Withdrawal:
President Trump faced a swift torrent of Republican criticism Monday as lawmakers rebuked his plan to withdraw troops from northeast Syria, a move Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said would undermine U.S. national security and potentially bolster Islamic State terrorists
McConnell (R-Ky.), in a rare public split with Trump, said that a supermajority in the Senate disagreed with the president’s abrupt withdrawal announcement, raising the specter of veto-proof action to oppose the decision.
“A precipitous withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran, and the Assad regime,” McConnell said in a statement Monday. “And it would increase the risk that ISIS and other terrorist groups regroup.”
(Article is seeded HERE)
They objected to Obama's withdrawals too....yet.....it still happened.
Politicians in DC approve or object to one thing or another all the time.
Will such activation complicate the situation in the region? It looks dangerous. And I'm sure no one would want to be in this situation.
Sounds like trump just gave them exactly what they wanted.
Don't be so sure. We still have a presence and it (Turkey's move) could prove to be a fools errand to move forward with it.
How so? What or who would stop them? We certainly will not. Will not go to war with them. I don't see any other country over there doing anything. Russia has their back.
You are aware Turkey is in NATO, right?
Russia was also part of the G8. Didn't stop them from taking Crimea.
The G8 is in no way comparable to NATO. NATO members have a treaty of mutual defense.
The G8 is just an economic symposium group.
A mutual pact of defence doesn't mean that as soon as we pull out, they won't move in.
No, but it does mean that if we tell them not to, they will almost surely follow instructions.
The question becomes..."will we tell them not to?" On that one, your guess is as good as mine.
For the record, are you "okay" with the Russians annexing what was guaranteed by treaty to Ukraine?
No, but I'm also not sure what we should have done about it.
Big Surprise! The King of Vulgaria is being a vulgar Vulgarian, again.
He has no loyalty to friends or allies. Trump is only in it for himself...
If he can't build a tower in Kurdistan he will build another in Istanbul.
Nevermind that thousands will die or that of our allies can't trust us.