No Trump Building In Kurdistan, So Kurds Go Under The Bus

  
By:  john-russell  •  2 weeks ago  •  122 comments

No Trump Building In Kurdistan, So Kurds Go Under The Bus

The Kurds have no power on the world stage, no prime real estate on which to build Trump hotels or Trump condos, and no oligarchy or autocrat leaders for Trump to cozy up to, so naturally, President* Trump has little to no interest in the welfare of the Kurds. 

It has been announced that the US is pulling its troops from the area that has served as a buffer between the Kurds and the Turkish military which seeks to annihilate them.  The Kurds have been assisting the US and the anti-ISIS coalition in the region for years, and are considered to have been indispensable to the success the West had in defeating ISIS within Syria and Iraq. 

But Turkey wants to invade the areas of Syria where the Kurds are 


The United States began withdrawing American troops from Syria’s border with Turkey early Monday, in the clearest sign yet that the Trump administration was washing its hands of an explosive situation between the Turkish military and U.S.-allied Kurdish fighters.

The withdrawal followed a late Sunday statement by the White House that the United States would not intervene in a long-threatened Turkish offensive into northern Syria. The announcement, which signaled an abrupt end to a months-long American effort to broker peace between two important allies, came after a call between President Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Erdogan said in a speech Monday that the withdrawal began soon after their phone call.

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said the Turkish leader would “soon be moving forward” with dispatching troops to battle Kurdish forces who Ankara sees as terrorists but whom have been a chief U.S. partner against the Islamic State.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-to-pull-troops-from-northern-syria-as-turkey-readies-offensive/2019/10/07/a965e466-e8b3-11e9-bafb-da248f8d5734_story.html

President* Trump is famously "transactional" . If you want help from him you generally need to be able to offer him something of value to his bottom line or his ego. The Kurds usefulness to Trump ended when he declared victory over ISIS last year. 

Turkey has resort areas that could use another Trump property some day. 

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JohnRussell
1  author  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Trump's actions are being described as a betrayal of an ally. 

 
 
 
KDMichigan
1.1  KDMichigan  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago
Trump's actions are being described as a betrayal of an ally. 

And let me guess when the piece of shit Obama abandoned the Kurds and refused to supply them with weapons to fight ISIS I bet we didn't hear a peep out of you. Was it a betrayal of a ally then JR?

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  KDMichigan @1.1    2 weeks ago

Of course not.

Nothing the Great Obama ever did could be wrong, don't ya know?

 
 
 
lib50
1.1.2  lib50  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

Conservatives are too afraid to answer direct questions.  Always pivot to Obama or Clinton. 

 
 
 
KDMichigan
1.1.3  KDMichigan  replied to  lib50 @1.1.2    2 weeks ago
Always pivot to Obama or Clinton. 

No pivot its a statement of fact. The left had no problem when bitch ass Obama abandoned the Kurds then refused to give them arms to defend themselves. I'm going to take a shot in the dark here but I'm willing to bet there was the same faux rage when bush did it. But yeah we know, Trump hurts peoples feeling. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  lib50 @1.1.2    2 weeks ago
Conservatives are too afraid to answer direct questions.  Always pivot to Obama or Clinton. 

Sigh*. Another false statement from you.

JR didn't ask any questions. 

KD did of JR, which I noticed went unanswered.

So who again is afraid to answer a direct question??????

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.5  FLYNAVY1  replied to  KDMichigan @1.1    2 weeks ago

Hmmmmmm....... news sources say otherwise that the Obama Admin DID support the Kurds.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2014/08/11/obama-iraq-kurds-militants-air-strikes/13885525/

If anyone abandoned the Kurds, it was H. Bush after the PG war.

 
 
 
lib50
1.1.6  lib50  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.4    2 weeks ago
So who again is afraid to answer a direct question??????

You tell me.  WHO IS BETRAYING ANOTHER ALLY?  

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
1.1.7  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  lib50 @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

The kurd Fetish continues.....

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @1.1.7    2 weeks ago

It's not a fetish. They died to get rid of ISIS for us. Over 60.000 fighters are still there as are their families. The American troops said they will not leave them. It is not about war, it is about not allowing an Islamist to take over the region and commit genocide as Turkey has done many times before. 

I believe in supporting those who supported us.

Oh and one last thing. They are the ones who are watching the imprisoned ISIS fighters. The very ones that Turkey supported. So yeah, I have a big problem with Turkey. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  lib50 @1.1.6    2 weeks ago
You tell me. 

Gee, I already did tell you.

It was in the post you responded to you.

You read it before you responded, didn't you?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.10  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.4    2 weeks ago
KD did of JR, which I noticed went unanswered. So who again is afraid to answer a direct question??????

I dont answer or even see every question made to me, which I think is the same thing most people do (not answer every question) . 

If I answered every question I would be on one thread all day long.  The "conservatives" here are always full of questions (but few answers). 

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.10    2 weeks ago

I wasn't directing that comment to you, so, okay?

It was a direct response to some silly comment.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

"described"?  It is a betrayal of an ally. This time I happen to agree with you John. Trump had the US and it's allies take on ISIS in eastern Syria with approx 2,000 US special forces and 60,000 Kurd fighters. The Kurds lost 11,000 men in that conflict. I know that Trump wants out and Turkey is also an ally, but the Turks will almost certainly kill off those who did most of the bleeding in the fight against ISIS. Warnings to Turkey won't prevent the inevitable.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

So you're OK with more American troops get killed and wounded. That's the end result of staying in this shit hole region.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.3.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @1.3    2 weeks ago

Are you OK sending the message that we are not to be trusted as an ally? Because leaving now to let Turkey invade will do that, and even worse. 

Study up on your history about Turkey and Erdogan's government. There is only a win for them and a huge loss for us.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

trump-turkey-meme.jpg

 
 
 
squiggy
1.5  squiggy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

“Well, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
Yeah, he's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam”

It was only yesterday when the bleeding hearts were crying in the streets not giving a shit of ARVN’s players who went under the bus in pieces. Today they have a conscience?

I’m not thrilled but the guy is doing what he said he’d do.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.6  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

Trump's actions are being described as a betrayal of an ally. 

Its being described that way because it is.

And if we can do that to the Kurds, obviously other allies are starting to get nervous.that trump will stab them in the back as well.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.6.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @1.6    2 weeks ago

Trump's actions are being described as a betrayal of an ally. 

Its being described that way because it is.

And if we can do that to the Kurds, obviously other allies are starting to get nervous.that trump will stab them in the back as well.

Like, for example, Israel:

Israelis Watch U.S. Abandon Kurds, and Worry: Who's Next ...

Jordan? The Baltic countries? Georgia? Maybe even Denmark?

Trump is impu lsive-- there's no tellingwho he might speak to on the 'phone next-- and suddenly decide to screw another of our allies....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2  author  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago
While the U.S. move is a gift to Erdogan's government, it will be seen as a stark betrayal by the Kurds, who have fought alongside U.S. forces for years to defeat ISIS.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/turkey-move-into-northern-syria-take-captured-isis-fighters-held-by-kurdish-forces-white-house-says/
Richard Engel of NBC News says he has talked to a Kurdish official who says that "the United States has betrayed them". 
 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @2    2 weeks ago
The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) warned that any Turkish attack would reverse the gains made against IS and make Syria a zone of permanent conflict.

“Erdogan’s threats are aimed to change the security mechanism into a mechanism of death, displace our people & change the stable & secure region into a zone of conflict and permanent war,” the SDF said in a series of tweets.

AFP
 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    2 weeks ago

Do you want Trump to go to war against a member of NATO?

 
 
 
Snuffy
2.1.2  Snuffy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

I'm not happy with this decision of Trump's. We were happy to arm the Kurds in other fights and to use them as pawns against both Iraq and later ISIS.  We should stay in place IMO.

And if Turkey attacks,  would they then not be going to war against a member of NATO themselves? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Snuffy @2.1.2    2 weeks ago
And if Turkey attacks,  would they then not be going to war against a member of NATO themselves? 

Kurds are not members of NATO. Turkey could very well attack them. That isn't an attack on the US.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.3    2 weeks ago

No it isn't an attack on the US, but the Kurds did a lot of our dirty work there and promises were made, and now we are not holding up to these promises. This is not the first time. They have been screwed by many administrations. My question is why we even have relations with Turkey, who is the most hateful country in Europe. They are genocidal and have wiped out all of their Christian populations. 

And frankly I have never been happy about how the Kurds have been treated by the US. We ask for their help and make promises and then they die for trusting us. It's a dirty business. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.4    2 weeks ago

Because Turkey is a member in NATO. Right or wrong, they are considered an ally--or were.

I just remember when so many were whining about Trump dissing our NATO allies.

 
 
 
Snuffy
2.1.6  Snuffy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.3    2 weeks ago
Kurds are not members of NATO. Turkey could very well attack them. That isn't an attack on the US.

sorry, I wasn't clear.  I am not in favor of pulling out and leaving the Kurds to fend for themselves. And if we remain there, than any attack against the Kurds is also going to be an attack against us and we are members of NATO. Additionally, what's the guarantee that Turkey will keep Iran out of there? If Turkey turns a blind eye to Iran, that moves Iran closer to Israel. Another bad move.

While I would love to get out of these endless wars, I am having a hard time not seeing the long-term issues.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

No, but you don't make deal with Erdogan. Even Europe knows this.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2.1.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Snuffy @2.1.6    2 weeks ago

Excellent comment! Well done!

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.9  Krishna  replied to  Snuffy @2.1.6    2 weeks ago
While I would love to get out of these endless wars

What about Afghanistan? We have thousands more troops there than in Syria.And we've been there a long, long time-- its by fat the longest war in American history.

(To say nothing of the fact that the Kurds have been loyal allies-- but every so often some Afghani shoots a U.S. soldier.)..

 
 
 
Ronin2
3  Ronin2    2 weeks ago

There is no Kurdistan, you do understand that right? You can't point to it on the map because it doesn't exist.

Also, the article fails to mention that Russia, China, and Iran are in Syria. All have vested interests in Syria- and will not look kindly upon a Turkish invasion.

Finally, the Kurdish are not stupid and they have been negotiating with Russia, China, and Syria for this day.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-kurds/let-down-by-us-syrian-kurdish-leaders-look-to-russia-and-assad-idUSKCN1OQ18E

Alarmed by a U.S. decision to leave Syria, Kurdish leaders who run much of the north are urging Russia and its ally Damascus to send forces to shield the border from the threat of a Turkish offensive.

Their call for a return of Syrian government forces to the border, which Kurdish fighters have held for years, points to the depth of their crisis in the wake of U.S. President Donald Trump’s abrupt decision to withdraw forces.

While little has changed on the ground yet - U.S. forces are still deployed and Trump says the pullout will be slow - Kurdish officials are scrambling for a strategy to protect their region from Turkey before the United States leaves.

Talks with Damascus and Moscow appear to be the focus for the Kurdish leadership. Their worst fear is a repeat of a Turkish attack that drove Kurdish residents and the YPG militia out of Afrin city in the northwest earlier this year.

They are also trying to convince other Western countries to fill the vacuum when Washington withdraws some 2,000 troops whose presence in northern and eastern Syria has deterred Turkey so far.

You want to blame someone; then blame the butt munch Bush Jr and Obama. Bush Jr created ISIS/ISIL with his invasion of Iraq and handing control of Iraq over to Shai loyal to Iran. Obama, in his asinine expansion of the war on terror- and hoping for regime change in Syria, started bombing ISIS/ISIL in Syria, and arming and training "moderate" Sunni fighters. He didn't foresee Russia and China entering Syria to protect their interests.

So what it the left's plan for Syria? Continue to throw money into a never ending proxy war? Start WWIII over a third world wannabee Syia in order to remove Assad?

If the world is so concerned about the fate of the Kurds, then NATO(minus the US), EU, UN, or other Middle Eastern countries can step up to the plate and put their money and military where their mouths are.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @3    2 weeks ago

The leader of Turkey says the invasion could begin "tomorrow". Are Russia or China going to be there to meet the invasion?   The US doesnt have an army there, but it has a symbolic presence which has signaled to turkey "dont do this".  Now Trump has decided to give Turkey permission to attack a group that has shed blood to advance US interests in the region. 

The Kurds have point blank said today that the US has betrayed them. Are you proud of that? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 weeks ago

Do you want the US to go to war with a NATO member?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.1    2 weeks ago
There is no Kurdistan, you do understand that right? You can't point to it on the map because it doesn't exist.

Is Turkey going to attack us? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.2    2 weeks ago

WTF do you want Trump to do to stop Turkey then?

No one suggested Turkey was going to attack us, don't be so fucking ridiculous.

BTFW, I didn't write that there was no Kurdistan, even though it is true and I figured most well-informed people already knew that.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.4  Krishna  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.3    2 weeks ago
WTF do you want Trump to do to stop Turkey then?

What we've been doing up until now.

Erdogan is a tyrant, and has done some stupid things. But seriously-- do you actually think he's be stupid enough to attack U.S. troops?

So we've had a small contingent of troops there. Positioned so that it would stop Erdogan from attacking the SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces-- mainly Kurds but also some pro-democracy Muslims and a few indigenous Christians). Erdogan wants to attack them-- but knows that if he did American troops would be victims as well.

So as long as American troops are there-- Erdogan won't attacdks the Kurds and their allies.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @3.1.4    2 weeks ago
WTF do you want Trump to do to stop Turkey then?
What we've been doing up until now.

People remember the disaster that was the U.S. war on Iraq. Yuge number of U.S. troops, therefore yuge number of U.S. military casualties.And of course in addition to those killed, there were those physically maimed for life-- and large number with PTSD. 

But this is different-- the number of troops we have there is tiny . . . 

I googled to find out how many-- and its not exactly like our deployment during the Iraq war!!!

From early this year (Feb. 2019)

WASHINGTON (AFP) — President Donald Trump insisted Friday he was not pulling an about-face on his Syria withdrawal plans, after it was announced hundreds of US troops would remain in the war-torn country.

The White House quietly dropped the news late Thursday that around 200 American “peacekeeping” soldiers would remain in Syria indefinitely, amid fierce criticism of Trump’s decision to withdraw America’s more than 2,000 troops there by April 30.

So calling those who want those 200 troops to remain could hardly be accused of being pro-war "neo-cons"!!!

 
 
 
r.t..b...
3.2  r.t..b...  replied to  Ronin2 @3    2 weeks ago
the Kurdish are not stupid and they have been negotiating with Russia, China, and Syria

In an attempt to fill the vacuum left when this administration has cut them off at the knees. They are about self-preservation. Our foreign policy seems to be about acquiescing to our traditional adversaries. Trump will become but an embarrassing footnote in our history...but the damage he has caused in diminishing our reputation as a global leader in confronting regimes that do not consider human rights a priority will take decades to repair. 

 
 
 
Krishna
3.3  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @3    2 weeks ago
Finally, the Kurdish are not stupid and they have been negotiating with Russia, China, and Syria

Because they are smart people-- and know that the U.S. is no longer a reliable ally they can trust....

 
 
 
Krishna
3.3.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @3.3    2 weeks ago
Finally, the Kurdish are not stupid and they have been negotiating with Russia, China, and Syria

Because they are smart people-- and know that the U.S. is no longer a reliable ally they can trust....

And our blatant betrayal of the Kurds sends a strong message to our other allies..and potential allies...as well :-(

 
 
 
Greg Jones
3.3.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Krishna @3.3.1    2 weeks ago

Nonsense. Why are our so called "allies" not pulling their share of the load?

 
 
 
Krishna
3.3.3  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @3.3.2    2 weeks ago
Nonsense. Why are our so called "allies" not pulling their share of the load?

Nonsense?

The Syrian Democratic Forces (pro-democracy Kurds, Arabs, and indigenous Christians) are!

The Israelis are-- although they usually don't admit it. (When you read about an air attack on Assad's forces (or some terrorist group in Syria) that no one claims responsibility for, its almost always the Israelis-- after all, Syria in right on their border.so those forces pose a direct threat to Israel). 

And then there's this:

As a significant part of Syria′s territory was from 2014 until October 2017 claimed by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an entity internationally recognised as terrorist, a number of Western and other countries, most notably the U.S., Russia, Britain, and France, have participated in direct military action against ISIL in the territory of Syria.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.3.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @3.3.2    2 weeks ago

Maybe because we are so reliable, that we cut out on those that have helped us. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @3    2 weeks ago
There is no Kurdistan, you do understand that right? You can't point to it on the map because it doesn't exist.

That's funny, because the Encyclopedia Britannica points to it on a map. 

1962-004-3D012DD8.gif

 Iraq is divided for administrative purposes into 18 muḥāfaẓāt (governorates), 3 of which constitute the autonomous  Kurdistan  Region  .

Kurdistan,   Arabic   Kurdistān , Persian   Kordestān     broadly defined geographic region traditionally inhabited mainly by   Kurd s. It consists of an extensive plateau and mountain area, spread over large parts of what are now eastern   Turkey , northern   Iraq , and western   Iran   and smaller parts of northern   Syria   and   Armenia . Two of these countries officially recognize internal entities by this name: Iran’s northwestern province of   Kordestān   and Iraq’s Kurdish autonomous region.

130650-004-CFAB60E3.jpg

The Kurdistan (“Land of the Kurds”) designation refers to an area of Kurdish settlement that roughly includes the mountain systems of the   Zagros   and the eastern extension of the   Taurus . Since ancient times the area has been the home of the Kurds, a people whose ethnic origins are uncertain.  

Encyclopedia Britannica 

 
 
 
Krishna
3.4.1  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @3.4    2 weeks ago

The Kurds were supposed to regain the independence of their ancient homeland (Treaty of Sevres, early 1900s IIRC), but their land has been illegally occupied by Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iran). Kurds living in what is now these 4 countries have been severely persecuted...

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.4.2  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.4    2 weeks ago

Kurdistan--not a country.

Kurdistan or Greater Kurdistan is a roughly defined geo-cultural historical region wherein the Kurdish people form a prominent majority population and Kurdish culture, languages, and national identity have historically been based. Kurdistan roughly encompasses the northwestern Zagros and the eastern Taurus mountain ranges. The territory corresponds to Kurdish irredentist claims. Contemporary use of the term refers to the following areas: southeastern Turkey, northern Syria, northern Iraq, and no
See more on en.wikipedia.org · Text under CC-BY-SA license
Language: Kurdish languages and also Turkish …
Parts: Turkish Kurdistan (Turkey), Iraqi Kurdistan (Iraq), …
Location: Upper Mesopotamia, and the …
States: Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.4.3  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.4.2    2 weeks ago
Kurdistan--not a country.

I never said it was a country.  You cant keep up, so why do you try? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.4.4  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.4.3    2 weeks ago

Just pointing out the facts for you.

No need to get pissy about it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.4.5  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.4.4    2 weeks ago
Just pointing out the facts for you.

So am I. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.4.6  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.4.5    2 weeks ago

Do you want the US to get into a war with a member of NATO?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    2 weeks ago

Always interesting to find out who says they are a liberal and who is really a Neo-con with a D in front of their name.

Pulling our troops out of that shithole is a great move.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5    2 weeks ago

I am not a neo-con at all. I just believe that our nation and our president should have honor when possible. 

We wanted the Kurds fighting with us when it helped our cause, now we turn our backs on them.  It costs the US next to nothing to keep a symbolic force in that area to prevent Turkey from attacking our "ally"  the Kurds. 

 
 
 
lib50
5.2  lib50  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5    2 weeks ago

Is abandoning our most dependable ally in the region a great move?  What exactly do you think will happen in the future when we ask for help, do you think they will want to attach to a country that ditches its friends when we elect a moron who doesn't care about anything?  Will any country want to put themselves at risk for abandonment?  Are conservatives fine with helping ISIS?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.2.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  lib50 @5.2    2 weeks ago

Repeat after me, "I am a neo-con too"!

That is the big difference between a liberal and a democrat, the passion for conflict and troop deployments.

 
 
 
lib50
5.2.2  lib50  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.2.1    2 weeks ago

Not one word in that deflection mentioned abandoning our most steadfast ally fighting ISIS.  Or the future ramifications for cooperation with other countries who won't trust us.  Try again fish, you aren't in top form these days.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.2.3  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  lib50 @5.2.2    2 weeks ago

Well let's get you a good rifle so you can save the world.

I want to keep our young men and women alive and away from that area of the world. We could then redirect the large amounted of wasted tax dollars for a worthy cause.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.2.4  Greg Jones  replied to  lib50 @5.2.2    2 weeks ago

So American troops should permanently stationed there?

The Kurds problems did not start with us.

Bush's follies of nation building got us into this mess.

 
 
 
katrix
5.2.5  katrix  replied to  Greg Jones @5.2.4    2 weeks ago
Bush's follies of nation building got us into this mess.

Well, a lot of it can be blamed on the aftermath of WWI, when the brilliant idea to create a bunch of countries, each containing various tribes who have hated each other for eternity, was put into place.

Westerners will probably never be able to understand the tribal mentality, but we can certainly help muck it up.

 
 
 
Krishna
5.2.6  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @5.2.4    2 weeks ago
So American troops should permanently stationed there?

No one is saying that American troops should be permanently stationed there.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.3  igknorantzrulz  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5    2 weeks ago

leaving our best allies in the war on ISIS ISIL'S 

to be slaughtered by our alleged Turkey allie ,

is how and why it is so easy to recruit more terrorists, imho.

They acted as our troops on the ground, and many died or were wounded

in that such capacity. 

Now, after ISIS is in check ( Not defeated like our ISIL states), We are abandoning 

our most important tool and allie, and all that needed be done, was for Turkish leader to Axis,

our always Lying "leader", also known as an ALL LIE/ALLIE

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.3.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.3    2 weeks ago

If there is one thing we should learn from our meddling in the Middle East is that when we do depart, no matter how long our stay, the void is filled with extremists.

We would have to stay permanently. .

Is anyone interested in committing our sons and daughters forever? I am not. I'll loan you an M4 carbine and you can go do it yourself. You have no right to condemn future generations to such foolish policy.

 
 
 
lib50
5.3.2  lib50  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.3.1    2 weeks ago

So same defenders of lying to get us in that war in Iraq are now good with abandoning our best ally fighting ISIS because Russia told Trump to make another decision that helps them at our allies expense. Nice.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.3.3  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  lib50 @5.3.2    2 weeks ago

Every military action we have taken in the middle east has resulted in negative consequences. How can we get you to look at history and realize this?

We need to vacate the Middle East and stop creating future conflicts for our young. Foolish and self serving policies.

You're being Neo-connned!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.3.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.3    2 weeks ago
They acted as our troops on the ground, and many died or were wounded

I heard on the news this morning that 20,000 Kurds were killed in the war against ISIS over the years. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.3.5  igknorantzrulz  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.3.3    2 weeks ago

A brainwashed defender of all Lying Trump is going to accuse me of being conned,

too funny, if it wasn't quite so pathetic.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.3.6  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.3.5    2 weeks ago

No one is defending Trump, I have always been a non-interventionist. I had hoped Obama would have followed through with his campaign promises and put an end to our engagements in the Middle East. I'll support anyone withdrawing troops.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.3.7  Texan1211  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.3.6    2 weeks ago

Maybe some liberals are just pissed off that the Trump wars they predicted haven't started yet?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.3.8  igknorantzrulz  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.3.6    2 weeks ago

Hey Fish ,

thanks to DICK, we own the Middle East fucked up disaster that created ISIS.

We have a minimal requirement to keep the disaster our country created in check.

I'm all for getting out of the Middle East, but what sense does it make, when in a year or two, we will have to return, costing FAR MORE OF our son and daughters LIVES, 

than just keeping the peace, till they one day change.

So we unfortunately will be there forever, in one way or another.

When our leaders LIE, this is the result.

Think about that the next time you are defending Trump.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.3.9  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.3.8    2 weeks ago
thanks to DICK

And the Neo-con democrat war mongers that voted for bipartisan war measures.

Hey, nice try though.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.3.10  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Texan1211 @5.3.7    2 weeks ago

They aren't liberals,  ideological liberals don't play footsie with neocons. They like to self label to sound cool. 

It's like watching a liberal vote for Hillary, queen of the neo-con dems who always put lips on John Mccain's war cock ideas.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.3.11  igknorantzrulz  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.3.9    2 weeks ago

nice try ?

WTF R U talking about ?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.3.12  Greg Jones  replied to  lib50 @5.3.2    2 weeks ago

Seems like our best ally in the region is Israel, which the left appears to detest.

 
 
 
katrix
5.3.13  katrix  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.3.1    2 weeks ago
If there is one thing we should learn from our meddling in the Middle East is that when we do depart, no matter how long our stay, the void is filled with extremists.

If we go in, get worse. If we stay out, things get worse.  If we go in and then get out, things get worse.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
5.3.14  KDMichigan  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.3.8    2 weeks ago
Think about that the next time you are defending Trump.

plz. BF is the only one here not being a hypocrite. At least he is true to his beliefs. The Kurds have been shit on by every administration from the last 50 years. You know god damn well the left wing bobble heads were making excuses for Bitch ass Obama when he pulled the same thing.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
5.3.15  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Greg Jones @5.3.12    2 weeks ago
Seems like our best ally in the region is Israel, which the left appears to detest.

Well that's because they have the largest Anti-Semite caucus in their party.

 
 
 
Krishna
5.3.16  Krishna  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.3.3    2 weeks ago
Every military action we have taken in the middle east has resulted in negative consequences.

The cause of the first Gulf War? Iraq (under Sadfdam) invaded a neighboring soverign country (Kuwait).with the intention of annexing it!

Unlike the second Gulf war, the U.S. was part of a real coalition-- as neighbouring Arab states would not tolerate a neigboyring country being conquered and annexed

  Operation Desert Storm  (17 January 1991 – 28 February 1991) in its combat phase, was a war waged by  coalition  forces  from 35 nations led by the United States against  Iraq  in response to Iraq's  invasion and annexation of Kuwait .

On 2 August 1990 the Iraqi Army invaded and occupied Kuwait, which was met with international condemnation and brought immediate economic sanctions against Iraq by members of the UN Security Council.

Together with the UK prime minister Margaret Thatcher,  American President George H. W. Bush deployed US forces into Saudi Arabia, and urged other countries to send their own forces to the scene.

(cont'd in next comment)

 
 
 
Krishna
5.3.17  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @5.3.16    2 weeks ago

(cont'd from comment @ 5.3.16)

An array of nations joined the coalition, forming the largest military alliance since World War II.

Unlike the second Gulf War, this one had tremendous support throughout the Arab world-- and it was a real coalition!

The great majority of the coalition's military forces were from the US, with Saudi Arabia, the United Kingdom and Egypt as leading contributors, in that order.

Kuwait and Saudi Arabia paid around US$32 billion of the US$60 billion cost.[31]

The initial conflict to expel Iraqi troops from Kuwait began with an aerial and naval bombardment on 17 January 1991, continuing for five weeks.

This was followed by a ground assault on 24 February. This was a decisive victory for the coalition forces, who liberated Kuwait and advanced into Iraqi territory. 

One hundred hours after the ground campaign started, on 28 February, President Bush declared a ceasefire, and he also declared that Kuwait had been liberated.

That made headlines-- the ground fighting was stopped by Bush as promised, a mere 100 hours after it started...this was one war that didn't last a really long time!

P.S; Our intervention was a tremendous success-- it met its goal 100% (to drive the invading army (irsaq) out of Kuwait and liberate Kuwait from being conquered.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
5.3.18  FLYNAVY1  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5.3.15    2 weeks ago

And the left has the most Jewish members in their caucus too.  So what possibly could be your point?

 
 
 
Krishna
5.4  Krishna  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5    2 weeks ago

Always interesting to find out who says they are a liberal and who is really a Neo-con with a D in front of their name.

When you can[t win an argument with facts-- try name-calling?

Because here are the facts:

 I am hardly a Neo-con! You obviously have no idea what my views on U.S. foreign wars are. (But if you want to accuse me of being a Neo-con...well, gp ahead-- I'm not going to waste my time arguing about it!

My observation is that the two people who are the strongest supporters on the Kurds on NT are myself and Kavika. (posted many strongly pro-Kurdish articles and comments).. . . now that I think about it... also Bob Nelson.

If you want to argue that the 3 of us are all extremist "neo-cons" right-wingers, always cheerleaders for more U.S. intervention military overseas go ahead-- it only reflects on your credibility!

(I suppose you would also accuse FDR of being a "Neo-Con" because he brought the U.S. into WWII?)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.5  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @5    2 weeks ago

I'm OK with being called a neo con if that is what it means to defend those who have defended us, or do we have no honor?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6  author  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Reports are that Trump is tweeting some form of backtracking. That is hardly a surprise either.  He puts his toe in stupid water, gets a lot of criticism, and falls back. 

The move announced last night has got a lot of criticism from conservatives. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
6.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

We get it...you have no problem putting American troops in harm's way and keeping them there.

 
 
 
Krishna
6.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1    2 weeks ago
We get it...you have no problem putting American troops in harm's way

And neither does Mitch McConnell-- and the majority of Republicans in Congress (who are much better informed than many people in this discussion! :-)

(Link)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1    2 weeks ago

They are only in harm's way (and btw they don't feel that way) if Erdogan attacks. Do you really think he is that stupid?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
6.1.3  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.2    2 weeks ago

you go girl

 
 
 
Krishna
6.2  Krishna  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
Reports are that Trump is tweeting some form of backtracking.

Well if only the Dems opposed him he obviously wouldn't backtrack. But most (probably all but one a very few) republicans oppose Trump's move-- including Mitch McConnell so its probably not surprising.

(After all, while there a trump Tower in Istanbul, I doubt if many (any?) Republicans own property in Turkey-- so they don't have athe financial incentive that Trump does to kow-tow to Turkey-- and put Turkey's interests ahead of the interests of our country!

 
 
 
It Is ME
7  It Is ME    2 weeks ago

Like if Turkey decided to "GO", 1,000 American guys and gals were going to stop them ?

Pulling maybe a total of 1,000 Americans out of there, and forcing "Others" to take up the slack, sounds okay to me.

Trump: "It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory." 

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
7.1  Jack_TX  replied to  It Is ME @7    2 weeks ago
Like if Turkey decided to "GO", 1,000 American guys and gals were going to stop them ?

1000 Americans keep them from deciding to "GO".  

 
 
 
It Is ME
7.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1    2 weeks ago
1000 Americans keep them from deciding to "GO". 

I'd say it's more the "Talks" going on, than the miniscule Men and Women Count over there.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.2  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @7.1.1    2 weeks ago
1000 Americans keep them from deciding to "GO". 
I'd say it's more the "Talks" going on, than the miniscule Men and Women Count over there.

Do you seriously believe Erdogan would launch an attack on the Kurds if he thought it meant injuring-- probably killing-- a few American troops?

He may be a litle crazy-- but he's not that crazy!

 
 
 
Jack_TX
7.1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  It Is ME @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

No nation is going to attack anywhere American troops are stationed.  That's doubly true for a NATO nation.

 
 
 
It Is ME
7.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1.3    2 weeks ago
That's doubly true for a NATO nation.

Then, like Like Trump said:

"It is time now for others in the region, some of great wealth, to protect their own territory"

Or

There are other Big NATO members that could take our place in "Directing" and "Training" over there !

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.1.5  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

And just what might be the American response to American personnel being killed and wounded from Turkish artillery and airstrikes?

 
 
 
It Is ME
7.1.6  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.1.5    2 weeks ago
And just what might be the American response to American personnel being killed and wounded from Turkish artillery and airstrikes?

Same as all "Friendly Fire" goes over there. Maybe a review here and there, but Not much more !

Turkey is a NATO member.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
7.1.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @7.1.6    2 weeks ago
Turkey is a NATO member.

And they shouldn't be. They have just recently cleaned the country of all non Muslims. Does that sound like a country we would want in NATO?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
7.1.8  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.1.7    2 weeks ago

NATO has run it's course. Time to abolish it.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
7.1.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @7.1.8    2 weeks ago

I tend to agree with you. In times of trouble, let nations freely decide what they are going to do, and that would keep the foxes like Turkey out of the hen house.

 
 
 
It Is ME
7.1.10  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.1.7    2 weeks ago
And they shouldn't be.

But they are !

We Should always Trust our NATO Allies. jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

Isn't it great that Trump always Pressures NATO to do their part ?

Maybe he can pressure them to get Turkey out of the "Alliance" ?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.1.11  FLYNAVY1  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @7.1.8    2 weeks ago

Not a chance!

The bear still swims, meaning the Russians still have ICBM Submarines they are putting to sea, and those missiles are pointed at US!

The bear still has wings…. meaning they are still invading other countries airspace with nuke capable bombers.

The bear still has teeth..... Just ask Eastern Ukraine about that.

I'll give you credit for sticking to your beliefs Fish..... but the world is almost as dangerous as it was in the early 1980s.  Maybe even more so now that you have so many "unaligned countries.  You want to pull back....?  I suggest you do some research on critical mineral imports for our economy and national defense.  Tungsten, vanadium, and rare earth magnets just for starters. 

Take care.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.2  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @7    2 weeks ago
Like if Turkey decided to "GO", 1,000 American guys and gals were going to stop them ?

You are unfamiliar with the politicsa of the area. Those SAmerican troops are stationed strategically to prevent Turkey from attacking the Kurds.

How?

becasue if you knew anything about Erdogan, as crazy as he is there's no way he would launch an attack that would harm American troops! It would be totally nuts and he knows it!

 
 
 
MUVA
7.2.1  MUVA  replied to  Krishna @7.2    2 weeks ago

That isn't the only reason we are in Syria most of their mission is training and support.

 
 
 
It Is ME
7.2.2  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @7.2    2 weeks ago
You are unfamiliar with the politicsa of the area. Those SAmerican troops are stationed strategically to prevent Turkey from attacking the Kurds.

And there are other Allied nations that could take our place in training and directing.....since the other nations are sooooo concerned about this withdrawal. jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.2.3  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @7.2.2    2 weeks ago

Last time I cheeked, Brits are there, French are there, even some German special forces units are deployed.

 
 
 
It Is ME
7.2.4  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.2.3    2 weeks ago

Then they can handle it !

Or can they ?

I remember when Britain, France and Germany were "Super Powers". Let them "Power" through it.

 
 
 
warmall
7.2.5  warmall  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.2.3    2 weeks ago
Last time I cheeked, Brits are there, French are there, even some German special forces units are deployed.

Truth? This is new information for me. I always thought that they prefer to stay away. If so, it's reassuring.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.2.6  FLYNAVY1  replied to  warmall @7.2.5    2 weeks ago

If I'm not mistaken, there are upwards of 60 countries involved in on way or another in the fight against ISIS there in Syria. 

 
 
 
Krishna
7.3  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @7    2 weeks ago
Pulling maybe a total of 1,000 Americans out of there, and forcing "Others" to take up the slack, sounds okay to me.

Well, apparently Mitch McConnell and the majority of Republicans are much better informed than you are about the situation-- and the necessity of not betraying our allies-- and not making a stupid move which would assist ISIS and other terror groups

Mitch McConnell Joins Other Republicans In Rebuking Trump’s Syria Withdrawal:

President Trump faced a swift torrent of Republican criticism Monday as lawmakers rebuked his plan to withdraw troops from northeast Syria, a move Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said would undermine U.S. national security and potentially bolster Islamic State terrorists

McConnell (R-Ky.), in a rare public split with Trump, said that a supermajority in the Senate disagreed with the president’s abrupt withdrawal announcement, raising the specter of veto-proof action to oppose the decision.

“A precipitous withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran, and the Assad regime,” McConnell said in a statement Monday. “And it would increase the risk that ISIS and other terrorist groups regroup.”

(Article is seeded HERE)

 
 
 
MUVA
7.3.1  MUVA  replied to  Krishna @7.3    2 weeks ago

Just think if we as a country would have supported the parts of the Iraq invasion that made sense we would be in this same position again.

 
 
 
It Is ME
7.3.2  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @7.3    2 weeks ago

They objected to Obama's withdrawals too....yet.....it still happened.

Politicians in DC approve or object to one thing or another all the time.

 
 
 
warmall
8  warmall    2 weeks ago

Will such activation complicate the situation in the region? It looks dangerous. And I'm sure no one would want to be in this situation. 

 
 
 
Ender
9  Ender    2 weeks ago
Turkey said Tuesday it will go ahead with a military operation in northeastern Syria and won't bow to threats over its Syria plans, an apparent reply to U.S. President Donald Trump's warning.

Trump said earlier this week the United States would step aside for an expected Turkish attack on Syrian Kurdish fighters, who have fought alongside Americans for years. But he then threatened to " totally destroy and obliterate " Turkey's economy if they went too far.

Link

Sounds like trump just gave them exactly what they wanted.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
9.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Ender @9    2 weeks ago

Don't be so sure. We still have a presence and it (Turkey's move) could prove to be a fools errand to move forward with it. 

 
 
 
Ender
9.1.1  Ender  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.1    2 weeks ago

How so? What or who would stop them? We certainly will not. Will not go to war with them. I don't see any other country over there doing anything. Russia has their back.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
9.1.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @9.1.1    2 weeks ago
How so? What or who would stop them? We certainly will not. Will not go to war with them. I don't see any other country over there doing anything. Russia has their back.

You are aware Turkey is in NATO, right?

 
 
 
Ender
9.1.3  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @9.1.2    2 weeks ago

Russia was also part of the G8. Didn't stop them from taking Crimea.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
9.1.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @9.1.3    2 weeks ago
Russia was also part of the G8. Didn't stop them from taking Crimea.

The G8 is in no way comparable to NATO.  NATO members have a treaty of mutual defense. 

The G8 is just an economic symposium group.

 
 
 
Ender
9.1.5  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @9.1.4    2 weeks ago

A mutual pact of defence doesn't mean that as soon as we pull out, they won't move in.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
9.1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @9.1.5    2 weeks ago
A mutual pact of defence doesn't mean that as soon as we pull out, they won't move in.

No, but it does mean that if we tell them not to, they will almost surely follow instructions.

The question becomes..."will we tell them not to?"  On that one, your guess is as good as mine.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
9.1.7  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Jack_TX @9.1.4    2 weeks ago

For the record, are you "okay" with the Russians annexing what was guaranteed by treaty to Ukraine?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
9.1.8  Jack_TX  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @9.1.7    2 weeks ago
For the record, are you "okay" with the Russians annexing what was guaranteed by treaty to Ukraine?

No, but I'm also not sure what we should have done about it.

 
 
 
JBB
10  JBB    2 weeks ago

Big Surprise! The King of Vulgaria is being a vulgar Vulgarian, again.

He has no loyalty to friends or allies. Trump is only in it for himself...

If he can't build a tower in Kurdistan he will build another in Istanbul.

Nevermind that thousands will die or that of our allies can't trust us.

 
 
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