Christians in Turkey face increased persecution
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Pastor Andrew Brunson
With the rise of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his Islamist party, Turkey has slowly pulled away from its historic position as a bridge between East and West and increased its persecution of Christians, said an analysis for U.S. advocacy group International Christian Concern (ICC).
Mustafa Akyol of the Cato Institute told Congress that Erdoğan’s Justice and Development Party (AKP) had gone from pushing pro-freedom reforms to becoming “a parochial, paranoid and authoritarian party which sees conspiracies by the West and its imagined fifth columns under every stone”.
Lisel Hintz, assistant professor of international relations at Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies, said in today’s Turkey there was a clear preference for the dominant segment of Turkish citizens. “To be a good Turk, you have to be not just a Muslim, but a Sunni Muslim,” she said.
They pointed to the case of Pastor Andrew Brunson, who also testified at the hearing. Turkey’s government accused Brunson, who was then working as a missionary in the country, of spying and imprisoned him for two years. Yet the United Nations’ Working Group on Arbitrary Detention concluded earlier this year that he had been persecuted because of his Christian faith and U.S. nationality.
Brunson is not the only Christian who has faced pressure from the state. “The Turkish government has accelerated the expulsion of Christian foreigners from Turkey,” he said in the hearing. “Over 50 Protestant families have had to leave the country in recent years.”
1. NEW! Erdogan’s Ambitions Go Beyond Syria. He Says He Wants Nuclear Weapons
2. Iraqi Religious Persecution Hits Home In U.S.
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With the rise of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his Islamist party, Turkey has slowly pulled away from its historic position as a bridge between East and West and increased its persecution of Christians, said an analysis for U.S. advocacy group International Christian Concern (ICC).
According to Brunson, this has led to increased concern from Turkish Christians. “After the foreigners are sent away, what will the government do to us?” Brunson said they had wondered. He predicted that “the accelerated deportation of church leaders is a sign of very dark times to come. Turkey is not there yet, but it is careening in the wrong direction.”
Erdoğan has proposed returning Hagia Sophia, the UNESCO-protected Byzantine cathedral that the Ottomans turned into a mosque and the Republic of Turkey made a museum, back into a place of Islamic worship.
In short, Erdogan has abandoned the path for Turkey forged by Ataturk?
Or, Erdogan sees a future with Putin's strength and in the inherent weakness of Trump?
Or Both of the previous sentences could be true and Erdogan's real desire is a restoration of The Ottoman Empire?
Rise of the strongman again folks.
This and the rise of nationalism go hand in hand. In past history it has also led to major wars.
Trump loves strongman.
His love affair with his puppet-master Putin is obvious.
But it also extends to the authoritarian rulers of The Philippines, Brazil, Turkey, North Korea (and several other countries as well)..
Trump loves strongman.
His love affair with his puppet-master Putin is obvious.
But it also extends to the authoritarian rulers of The Philippines, Brazil, Turkey, North Korea (and several other countries as well)..
In many cases its actually quite bizarre.
It seems that soon Muslims will be the only religious group in Turkey...Since Erdogan took over Turkey has become a pariah, IMO.
Pretty much status quo for much of the middle east.
Ironically the two most secular countries are also 2 of the most internationally hated. Israel and ....drum roll...Syria.
I still maintain the West made a grievous error when it dismantled and destroyed The Baathist Regimes.
Lots of data on your side that supports that thinking......
We really did make a total mess of that whole Iraqi situation...what total stupidity
I am not defending the Baathists. But, left alone they maintained order within their spheres, cooperated with each other while making sure religious extremism or any other militant organizations were in constant check. Example: To be a Taliban in Saddam's Iraq was a fatal error.
I still maintain the West made a grievous error when it dismantled and destroyed The Baathist Regimes.
Actually there were two "iraq Wars".
The second one happened after 911- it started in 2003. . It was part of a "war against terror" the goal was to get rid of Saddam and his brutal government. Also to get rid of the threat posed to his neighbours and the entire world by his (alleged)_ possession of WMDs. And the war was fought till Saddam and his gov't were overthrown.
But the first Gulf war (began in 1990) Coalition's goal was different. Saddam invaded and attempted to annex (by force) an independent neighbouring country. The goal was much more limited-- it was to liberate Kuwait-- force the Iraqi invaders out of Kuwait.
The President also stated that after the initial airstrikes, when the coalition started the ground war it would end that within 100 hours (which it did(
Iraqi forces were kicked out of Kuwait, and the war was over. Saddam remained in power.resident at the time clearly stated that there would be no attempt to remove Saddam from power or change the government.
Because the goal of the first War (often called "The Gulf War") was much more limited than the second war (Sometimes referred to as "The Iraq War") IU was curious as to casualties.
While no figures can be accurate, these two figures of # on the Coalition side killed show the difference:
-First war 1990: Total deaths of all Coalition forces: 292 (does not include Kuwaitis)
-Second war: Total deaths, all Coalition forcesL 25,285
I distinctly remember that at the time of the first Iraqi War there was controversy as to whether of not th president should've stopped after 100 hrs, and whether he should've gone on to overthrow Saddam, rather than letting him remain in office. But of course the positive side was that there were much fewer casualties and fewer other major instabilities in the area.
Did Saddam have WMDs?
The answer is yes-- and us. We know he had them because he used poison gas on civilian populations. He used them on the Kurds-- see t he discussion here on NT :
The incident, which has been officially defined by Supreme Iraqi Criminal Tribunal as a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people in Iraq, was the largest chemical weapons attack directed against a civilian-populated area in history.
He also used them on civilians in a neighbouring country.The second Iraq war was largely a result of Karl Rove (assisted by some other Neo-Cons)convincing Bush that Saddam had WMDs.
Here's an excellent article on the subject:
KARL ROVE'S IRAQ WAR ROLE
But from the day he went to work in the White House, Karl Rove has been Bush's enabler as much as his master strategist–a key adviser who saw no subtleties or nuance, brushed aside internal qualms and ferociously went after critics who raised any questions about the president's policies.
This was especially true of Iraq—the defining initiative of the Bush presidency—in which Rove's behind-the-scenes role in the selling and spinning of the war was far more significant than is commonly known.
It is now barely remembered, but when the Bush White House first floated the idea of invading Iraq in 2002, public opinion polls showed most Americans had profound doubts. Even after the trauma of September 11, the public (including many Republicans) didn't quite understand the rationale for launching a preemptive war to get rid of Saddam Hussein, who while a ruthless dictator had no plausible connection to the terror attacks. As House Majority Leader Dick Armey bluntly put it that summer: "We Americans don't make unprovoked attacks." (Read it all)
(Cont'd).
But while at one point he did-- here's a key point: when the U.S. invaded Iraq during the second Iraq war saddam did not have Wmds!
I remember that time quite well. Because some people questioned the allegations, Bush had U,S, soldiers spend days combing the country for them. Had they been in Iraq, we would've found them-- but we didn't.
The allegation that Saddam had WMDs wat the time of our invading Iraq was a total falsehood cooked up by Rove!
True. In the 1991 War Iraq went into Kuwait because they were slant drilling against international law. Iraq asked the US if it had treaties or obligation with Kuwait and the US said no. US should have stepped aside. Rich Kuwaitis were also funding the Madrassas along with The House of Saud. US was stupid, short sighted. OIL was our driving force. This too; Saddam's nail in his own coffin in the 1991 War was when he announced to OPEC that the OIL Iraq would pump out of Kuwait he would put on the market at a 20% discount no matter what price OPEC agreed. It was then when the American propaganda came out with stories of Iraqi soldiers going through Kuwait's hospitals, throwing babies in the air and catching them with their bayonets. OIL. Friggen OIL.
Liberate Kuwait? From who? From what? The Kuwaiti Kingdome was a slave nation. Still is.
Hell, who knows. If Iraq could have annexed Kuwait, strengthened the secular coalitions in the Arab World---911 may have never happened.
Turkey wasn't always that way-- in fact for years it was one of the most democratic countries in the Middle East. But since Erdogan took over its gone downhill rapidly. And there's tremendous persecution of minorities,
(Even of Muslims if they're the "wrong type" of Muslim...i.e. Shia and not Erdogan approved Sunni)
Ironically, not so long ago Turkey was even friendly with . . . Israel... in a sense a "de facto ally".
Many Americans may be unaware of it, but not so long ago Syria's dictator and Russian/Iranian Syrian puppet (Bashar Assad) was building a nuclear reactor. (Or more accurately, the North Koreans were building it for him...)away from Syria,
This would've been a threat to entire region.
The Israelis found out, and destroyed it in a daring raid.
The reason I mention it here is how they did it. Since Syria borders Israel, flying directly there would've tipped off Syrian air defenses. So the IAF flew west, out over the Meditteranean-- and then Eastward back towards Syria.
(To see a clearer, enlarged version of map, click on this link then click on map--
Israel is the tiny country, shown in Orange, just to the right of Egypt)
However to further mislead the Syrian air defenses, when they turned around and flew towards Syria, their initial flight path flight path was inside Turkey not Syria-- just over the Turkish Syrian border. At the last minute they turned South, crossed the border into Syria-- and hit the reactor completely destroying it)
And the point of this lengthy comment is simply this: that flying over Turkey was only possible because the IAF had the full support and cooperation from the Turkish military!!!
(How times have changed...)
Israel has developped some of the most advanced technology in the world.
And this amazing raid was notable for another reason.
In addition to choosing this unusual flight path, advanced Israeli electronics completely took over Syrian air defenses and fed a believable, but totally misleading, picture into their systems!
As ironic, Assad gave us free air space during the initial feint from the north during Iraq II. IIRC several other missions too.
True. But Assad was worried about his own survival. He knew the US argument against Iraq was total fabrication but--------------could not dare to contest it.
Perhaps part of the reason for that is that Assad is a member of a Shia-like sect-- and Saddam was Sunni.?
Assad = Shia. Saddam = Sunni.
And Saddam's gov't was a Sunni dictatorship, brutally ruling a Shia majority country (Iraq).
The Baathist Regimes were secular. Shia were in Saddam's Army, government and security forces. Saddam's success in Iraq was keeping religion in the Mosques and not on the street.
Could be. Nonetheless those days he gave us air space.
Which also goes to show that the politics in the Middle east can often be more complex than they first appear to be.
I think that's do to a large degree to the fact that there are so many different sects and small groups with their own identitiies: Assyrians, Kurds, Yazidis, Druze, Circassians, and of course the split between Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. oh-- and of course the Bahai'i.
(And that's just in the Arab world )probably a few others I've missed).
(cont'd from comment #4.1.8)
And then various indigenous Christian groups that were there long b efore the first Muslim appeared!
Up until recently, over 10% of indigenous Egyptians were Copts-- a form of Eastern Orthodox Christianity. In Egypt long before any Muslim was...
And IIRC, when Lebanon was first created it was a Christian majority nation. (Here's a bit of interesting "trivia"-- Beirut Lebanon has a "Patron Saint"!)
In addition there are Muslim majority countries that are definitely not Arab-- they have unique identities: Turkey (not Arabs-- IIRC they are originally from lands near China, Central Asia) and Iran (also not Arabs-- they are mostly descended from the ancient Persians)..
When I was in L.A. I meet lots of Americans of "iranian" descent"-- they were proud of their Persian heritage and insisted on being referred to as"Persians", not "iranians". And while born in Muslim families, every one I met was not particularly religious.
P.S: At one point the upscale city of Beverly Hills had an iranian-American mayor!
You are right, they are Turkic...with some residual genes from the ancient inhabitants of Hattusa iirc.
Also right, which if I am not mistaken were part of the Indo-European migration out of the Indian sub-continent...I forgot which group migrated into the Indian sub-continent to become them...?
I son't remeber azll the details either.
But in any event...they were probably Aryans!
And Aryans must have their Swastikas!
Here's a really good article about the Swastika:
10 Things You Need to Know About the Swastika
I used to regularly practice Yoga.
In yoga there are postures-- called "Asanas". (its Sanskrit).
One of the more common asanas is Swastikasana - The Auspicious Pose"
More on the Israeli raid that wiped out Assad's nuclear reactor:
In stark contrast to the doctrine's prior usage against Iraq , the airstrike against Syria did not elicit international outcry. A main reason is that Israel maintained total and complete silence regarding the attack, and Syria covered up its activities at the site and did not cooperate fully with the IAEA.
According to official government confirmation on 21 March 2018, the raid was carried out by Israeli Air Force (IAF) 69 Squadron F-15Is , [19] and 119 Squadron and 253 Squadron F-16Is , [20] and an ELINT aircraft ; as many as eight aircraft participated and at least four of these crossed into Syrian airspace. [21]
The fighters were equipped with AGM-65 Maverick missiles, 500 lb bombs, and external fuel tanks . [5] [22]
One report stated that a team of elite Israeli Shaldag special-forces commandos arrived at the site the day before so that they could highlight the target with laser designators, [19] while a later report identified Sayeret Matkal special-forces commandos as involved. [23]
There's a lot more information in that article (Wikipedia).
Be careful, some may ridicule your use of Wikipedia...then again, some may not understand what footnotes are.
Well, after saying:
There's a lot more information in that article (Wikipedia).
I realize that indeed, some may not want more information!
After several years online (decades?0 I've come to realize that many people obsessively try to avoid learning anything new.
And why should they?
Because...THEY ALREADY KNOW IT ALL!
Yes, that's what we're faced with on social media sites-- a bunch of friggin' Know It Alls!
The flight path was the most key to the success of the raid. The EW side of things was not that revolutionary.
Israel made use of well known techniques as side lobe jamming, range-gate stealing, and offset swept spot emission, to confuse the Syrian acquisition and targeting radar systems. These methods have been standard on the US built AN/ALQ-99 jamming pods used by the US and exported to Israel since the mid 1980s.
The truth of the matter is that in 2007, Syria had the export version of the Russian SA-13 "Gopher" who's design that dates back to the early 1970s. It's a short range (5Km) infrared guided missile, which against a determined jamming platform is considered "meat on the table". They had some shoulder launched MANPANs as well, but nothing in the raid indicated that these ever came into play.
It must be noted that it was after that raid that Syria got busy purchasing systems like the 2K22 Tunguska, and SA-10 Grumble. Syrian air defense has been upgraded by these systems.
Igress and egress routes are item #3 when it comes to strike planning. #1... what is it that you want to hit. #2... what do you need to hit it with.
Thanks-- interesting information!
christians facing increased persecution? They have nothing to worry about. Televangelicals infested the White House recently and laid hands on Trump. All is well.
Well, that's assuming Trump has power over Erdogan....enuf power to force Erdogan to stop persecuting non-Muslim minorities.
Which IMO is doubtful...
Trump is now powerless. He showed his hand and he can't beat openers.
True dat ...
'Are We So Weak And So Inept Diplomatically That Turkey Forced The Hand Of The United States Of America? Turkey? !'
When you don't have a seat "at" the table, you are "on" the table.
Trump has dropped the global leadership roll of the US on the ground to anyone that want's to pick it up. Russia, Iran, NK, and China know this..... as do our once allies. It's going to take a decade if ever to repair the damage done by this administration.
Definitely.
And BTW, one of the things I find interesting about the general public discussion of this (and the discussion on NT as well)...is how the Trump worshippers are in total denial of this.
As well as the lengths they go to in their feeble attempts to deny what is so blatantly obvious.
(The phrase "stuck on stupid" comes to mind)
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In addition to purchasing the S 400 missle defence system from Russia, the Turks are now contemplating the purchase of the Russian advanced jet fighter the SU 35.
Oh, and now Erdogan is talking about wanting nuclear weapons.
In addition to purchasing the S 400 missle defence system from Russia, the Turks are now contemplating the purchase of the Russian advanced jet fighter the SU 35.
Not exactly acting the way a loyal NATO member should!
Impeach Erdogan! He's not MY President. Check his income tax records.
Joke about it all you want Buzz, but China has installed for life someone that isn't above threatening it's neighbors as it's leader. The rise of the strongman is repeating in history.
Is there some kind of obsession about China here? I didn't think China was the topic and if I were the seeder I would flag that as off topic.
Aren't you Canadian?
What's your point?
Born and bred.
Born and bred!
And guess which countryhas jailed the most journalists? Probably not the one people first think of:
For 3rd straight year, Turkey jailed more journalists than any other country
And now they want nukes-- good grief!
Erdogan’s Ambitions Go Beyond Syria. He Says He Wants Nuclear Weapons.
Trump says he want to "End the endless Middle-Eastern Wars"-- and he's sending our troops in Syria into Iraq, sending new troops into Saudi Arabia, refusing to end the War in Afghanistan, betraying our Kurdish allies, sending tons of weapons to the Gulf States and S Arabia...maybe Trump will give Erdogan some nuclear weapons...as a way of "ending war"???.
Stupid?
Of course-- but that's the way our Chickenhawk Neo-Con -Spur-Challenged president thinks!
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It is the value.
Off topic value?
Seems to me that the righteous Christians around here are SO MUCH more concerned about the separatist Uighurs in China than they are about their brethren being slaughtered, forced to convert, have their churches burned down, in Africa and the Middle East, and Pakistan.