Dems rush to implicate Trump for plane crash linked to Iran missile strike

  
Via:  kdmichigan  •  3 months ago  •  84 comments

By:   Brooke Singman

Dems rush to implicate Trump for plane crash linked to Iran missile strike
“If what is being projected is true, this is yet another example of collateral damage from the actions that have been taken in a provocative way by the president of the United States,” Speier told CNN.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Democrats suggest Trump bears responsibility for Ukraine airliner shot down by Iran
In the wake of claims that an errant missile fired by Iran brought down a passenger jet earlier this week, some Democrats and media voices have appeared to make the case that President Trump at least shares in the blame for the death of 176 civilians.
Rep. Jackie Speier, D-Calif., pointedly laid the blame for the tragedy at Trump's feet, in an interview Thursday.

“If what is being projected is true, this is yet another example of collateral damage from the actions that have been taken in a provocative way by the president of the United States,” Speier told CNN.
This, following a similar suggestion from Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg overnight, which appeared to assert a butterfly-effect argument that if the president had not ordered the U.S. military strike that killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani, Iran would not have retaliated, and therefore, the passenger jet would not have been shot down.
“Innocent civilians are now dead because they were caught in the middle of an unnecessary and unwanted military tit for tat,” Buttigieg tweeted. “My thoughts are with the families and loved ones of all 176 souls lost aboard this flight.”
Another 2020 presidential hopeful, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, D-Hawaii, when asked on Fox News' “America’s Newsroom” for reaction to Buttigieg’s comments, echoed a similar sentiment.
“I think this is a very, very unfortunate incident that has affected so many people and so many families, and this is one of these consequences of this escalation and this state of war that we are in,” Gabbard said, urging the president to have “foresight” and look at the “consequences” of war with Iran.
“This is the consequence of this escalation of war that further points to why we need to deescalate these tensions now,” she said. “And I urge President Trump to do so and get back to the negotiation table and make sure this doesn’t move forward.”
The connection between the Soleimani strike and the Iranian decision to fire missiles at U.S. bases in Iraq is not hard to make. However, efforts to implicate Trump in the plane tragedy have faced a fierce backlash, even from voices not normally allied with the U.S. president, in part because Iran ultimately fired those missiles and because the chain of events did not start with the Soleimani strike alone.
Last month, a U.S. defense contractor was killed and others were wounded in an Iran-linked rocket attack in northern Iraq. In response, the U.S. military carried out “precision defensive strikes” in Iraq and Syria, on sites housing Kataeb Hezbollah, an Iran-backed Iraqi militia. The strikes killed 25 fighters.
Days later, hundreds of protesters, including members of Iranian-backed militias, stormed the U.S. Embassy compound in Baghdad—one of the most heavily fortified U.S. diplomatic missions in the world. The attack, which raised the specter of the 2012 Benghazi attack in which four Americans died, prompted the Pentagon to send hundreds of additional troops to the Middle East; more than 100 U.S. Marines were sent to the embassy alone to bolster security.
Trump then ordered the strike that killed Soleimani, the head of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ elite Quds Force, among other military officials at Baghdad International Airport.
Then, late Tuesday, Iran fired 16 ballistic missiles into Iraq aimed at U.S. military bases. There were no casualties at those bases, but Pentagon officials said Thursday that the Ukrainian passenger plane that crashed around the same time after taking off from Tehran was shot down by mistake by Iranian missiles.

All 176 people on board the flight were killed.
The Associated Press, meanwhile, on Thursday posted an article headlined: "An Iranian general dies in U.S. attack, and innocents suffer." The outlet changed the headline after it was blasted by critics including on social media. The story was eventually republished with a different headline: "As Iran and U.S. take step back from the brink, Canada grieves."
An Associated Press spokesperson attempted to explain the situation when reached by Fox News.
“The headline was updated to more clearly describe what the story is about: Canadians struggling to come to terms with how the killing of an Iranian general in a U.S. drone strike may have led to the deaths of dozens of their citizens in a plane crash,” an AP spokesperson told Fox News.
“AP stories and headlines are routinely updated, as wire stories are. The original headline on this story when it was published yesterday evening was ‘An Iranian general dies in a U.S. attack, and Canada suffers.’ It became ‘An Iranian general dies in U.S. attack, and innocents suffer,’ when new information was added to the story. Overnight the headline became ‘As Iran and US take step back from the brink, Canada grieves,” the spokesperson continued.
After the headline change, the story still featured a paragraph that some took issue with, as it implies that the conflict with Iran “had begun” when Trump ordered a strike on Soleimani.
Others came forward to defend the president. Rep. Brian Mast, a Republican war veteran from Florida, said that the attack on Soleimani “was not unnecessary,” and that no matter what the president does, his critics will take the opposite position.
“It was not unjustified, and this is a common theme from the left,” Mast said on “Fox & Friends” Friday. “These American apologists that like to go out there and say that because America did something, this resulted in some other country going out there and taking some unnecessary actions, some ill-fated action. And it’s not the Americans’ fault—it’s the fault of those who went out there and took those actions themselves.”
Mast discussed a past sentiment that “politics end at the water’s edge,” but argued that that is “no longer true.”
“No matter what the president does, he’s going to be wrong in doing,” Mast said. “If he exercises diplomacy to go talk to Kim Jong Un or talk to Vladimir Putin, that’s wrong. If he withdraws our troops out of harm’s way on the border of Turkey and alongside the Kurds, then he’s wrong. ... Whatever he does, the other side is going to say he was incorrect for doing that for whatever the made-up reason is that they’re going to come up with.”
For the time being, the entire situation may be de-escalating. The president on Wednesday said that Iran “appears to be standing down,” a signal of a desire to reduce tensions in the region.
“The fact that we have this great military and equipment, however, does not mean we need to use it… we do not want to use it,” he said. “The U.S. is ready to embrace peace with all who seek it.”
Fox News' Brian Flood, Joseph Wulfson, Frank Miles and The Associated Press contributed to this report. 
Brooke Singman is a Politics Reporter for Fox News. Follow her on Twitter at @brookefoxnews.
  


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KDMichigan
1  seeder  KDMichigan    3 months ago

Just more proof of the TDS sufferers. It must suck to go through life with Trump on your brain 24/7

256

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  KDMichigan @1    3 months ago
It must suck to go through life with Trump on your brain 24/7

Hell, my hope is that he's marching around with the full marching bands of all branches of service and the bands of the military academies.  Plus a few old school Drill Instructors barking out orders!!

 
 
 
Kathleen
2  Kathleen    3 months ago

Notice how fast they cleaned up the wreckage......

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Kathleen @2    3 months ago
Notice how fast they cleaned up the wreckage......

They can clean up the wreckage, but there are already videos out showing what appears to be shrapnel damage to some pieces.

Plus, planes don't blow up mid air into hundreds of thousands or millions of pieces.  Engines blow, even fuel tanks can blow, but that doesn't disintegrate a plane midair. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1    3 months ago

Hell there was one picture with the ass end of an SA-15 laying there with Russian printing on the tail fins......

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3  Sean Treacy    3 months ago

Just imagine if the  US shot down a neutral jet. Would these people blame Iran?

 
 
 
KDMichigan
3.1  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    3 months ago
Would these people blame Iran?

No, they know that a majority of their base is a bunch of crying ass "But Trumpers" so they spew the rhetoric that appeals to them. You can even see the left wing  trash hoping Iran performs more attacks on Americans and their interests

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    3 months ago
Would these people blame Iran?

Why would they?  We'd likely admit it like we did in 1988 when we shot down an Iranian airliner.  But we did it intentionally thinking it was on an attack vector to the USS Vincennes.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.2.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  XDm9mm @3.2    3 months ago

Why would they

If they were being consistent, they would have to.  If you change the positions and actions of Iran and the USA, you would think the blame would shift too.  But that would never happen. 

For them, it's Americas fault  no matter what happens. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.2.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.2.1    3 months ago
For them, it's Americas fault  no matter what happens.

Of course everything globally since the founding of this country has been our fault.  Hell, Obama himself pretty much said just that on his global apology tours.

PS:   I should have been clearer earlier.   There would be no finger pointing blame games as we would man up and admit we fucked up.  Of course, that still would not placate some of the asshats on the left.  They would demand the people responsible, plus Trump if he was President at the time, be drawn and quartered.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  XDm9mm @3.2    3 months ago

In 1988 it was the Iranians threatening war

The American commander, Captain Rogers, went "off the res", he chased and destroyed two small Iranian gunboats in Iranian waters.

He was going after another when another USN ship ( the Sides ) tried to intervene because they observed the crew ot the 3rd Iranian boat sunbathing on deck.  Meanwhile the confusion started about the inbound civilian aircraft that Rogers insisted was an F-14 with a military transponder.  One SAM was fired which destroyed flight 655.

Rogers stuck to his story for years. He was proven wrong by satellite, radar and the testimony of the other American ships in the area .

The US tried to cut a deal with Iran for less than $26,000 per victim without admitting fault.

Eventually VP Bush publicly apologized to Iran and Iran accepted $69 million for the victims.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.2.4  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @3.2.3    3 months ago

While we apologized & paid restitution. The overall feeling was that we were superior beings dealing with trained monkeys and it was Iran's own fault for banging the drums of war.  It was Iran's fault for allowing civilian flight paths over hostile and friendly warships. it was all Iran's fault.

Capt Rogers was never charged , instead he was given the :Legion of merit " award with no mention of the 655 "incident".

Capt Rogers finished his tour of duty on the Vincennes garnering another medal for rescuing 26 Vietnamese boat people an the way to San Diego.  He got a nice command at a training facility until he retired in 1991 after 26 yos.

Interestingly he used the  pseudonym of Will Rogers to register his cars, insurance etc as if he were hiding from someone.

In 2003 his wife escaped injury when she started their minivan and a pipe bomb destroyed the van.  the FBI case remains unsolved.

in July of 2019 the Iranian English newspaper asked Rodgers to formerly admit that he shot down flight 655.  He did not respond.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
3.2.5  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Split Personality @3.2.3    3 months ago

What the fuck does your comment have to do with the seed? Try to stay on topic, Dems blaming Trump for Iran shooting down jet.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
3.2.6  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Split Personality @3.2.4    3 months ago

Again,

What the fuck does your comment have to do with the seed? Try to stay on topic, Dems blaming Trump for Iran shooting down jet.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.2.8  Split Personality  replied to  KDMichigan @3.2.6    3 months ago

Riddle me this.  How come Krishna's references to the same incident are not off topic, nor have you warned him?

SPDS ?

 
 
 
Sunshine
3.2.10  Sunshine  replied to  KDMichigan @3.2.5    3 months ago
What the fuck does your comment have to do with the seed?

Goes back 30 years to a tragedy that had no bearing on this tragedy. jrSmiley_103_smiley_image.jpg

Anything to disparage America.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.2.11  Split Personality  replied to  Sunshine @3.2.10    3 months ago

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

 
 
 
Sunshine
3.2.12  Sunshine  replied to  Split Personality @3.2.11    3 months ago

Who is ignoring history?

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.2.13  Split Personality  replied to  Sunshine @3.2.12    3 months ago
Goes back 30 years to a tragedy that had no bearing on this tragedy.

Of course it has a bearing. It especially has a bearing to a country that is holding grudges,

as both Iran and the US have for 33 plus years.  Some may say all the way back to WW! or the Crusades.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/james-mattis-iran-secretary-of-defense-214500

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/18/united-states-iran-fears-of-war

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/iran-and-united-states-remain-mired-past-62462

 
 
 
Sunshine
3.2.14  Sunshine  replied to  Split Personality @3.2.13    3 months ago

Grudges caused Iran's fuck up now?  You need to quit while you're behind.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.2.15  Split Personality  replied to  Sunshine @3.2.14    3 months ago

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.2.16  Texan1211  replied to  Sunshine @3.2.14    3 months ago

Anything to somehow shift the total blame for Iran shooting down a passenger plane that took off within their own freaking country--at a time when NO US missiles were being fired upon Iran.

Some leftists can't abide blaming terrorists when terrorists do stupid things.

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
3.2.17  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  KDMichigan @3.2.5    3 months ago

Absolutely nothing at all to any rational objective observer here.  

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
3.2.18  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  Sunshine @3.2.10    3 months ago

And there we have the bottom line here.  Thanks for saying “out loud” so to speak (write)

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
3.2.19  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.16    3 months ago

Why blame terrorists when they can blame our own President that they hate even more?  

 
 
 
Krishna
3.3  Krishna  replied to  Sean Treacy @3    3 months ago
Just imagine if the  US shot down a neutral jet. Would these people blame Iran?

Been there, done that:

Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy.

The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.3.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @3.3    3 months ago
Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided-missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location.

This is a perfect example of why the United States should not have a nuclear weapon!

/sarc

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.3.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Krishna @3.3    3 months ago

No kidding. Did you blame Iran? 

 
 
 
KDMichigan
3.3.3  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Krishna @3.3    3 months ago
Would these people blame Iran?

The Dems blamed Iran? 

Maybe try reading the seed before you comment next time?

 
 
 
Tacos!
4  Tacos!    3 months ago
The Associated Press, meanwhile, on Thursday posted an article headlined: "An Iranian general dies in U.S. attack, and innocents suffer."

Yeah, so don’t let anyone tell you the AP isn’t partisan. It clearly is.

“No matter what the president does, he’s going to be wrong in doing,” Mast said. “If he exercises diplomacy to go talk to Kim Jong Un or talk to Vladimir Putin, that’s wrong. If he withdraws our troops out of harm’s way on the border of Turkey and alongside the Kurds, then he’s wrong. ... Whatever he does, the other side is going to say he was incorrect for doing that for whatever the made-up reason is that they’re going to come up with.”

This is the problem. This is why we can’t talk about things. If he tries to make peace with someone, he’s committing treason. But when he uses force against someone who actually killed Americans and attacked American sovereignty (our embassy), he is the one starting a war. They accuse him of starting a war even though we never invaded, aren’t fighting, and he says publicly he doesn’t want a war. 

He walks away from Kurds in Syria and it’s unconscionable! He sticks around to defend even more Kurds in Iraq and people demand he pull our troops out. Like wtf!

He kills two assholes, recognized by his predecessor as terrorists, and he’s a loose cannon. His predecessor kills thousands with drones (including an incident where children and pregnant women were killed) and it’s all totally fine. You get the Nobel Peace Prize, mate!

 
 
 
KDMichigan
4.1  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Tacos! @4    3 months ago

That's what makes it so hard to converse with these left wingers, Their opinion changes like the wind because of Trump. 

original

 
 
 
Split Personality
4.2  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @4    3 months ago

Assuming you are not off topic....

His predecessor kills thousands with drones (including an incident where children and pregnant women were killed) and it’s all totally fine.

So far the current POTUS has doubled the amount of drone strikes in the Afghan war zone and cancelled the reports of civilian casualties

and collateral damage as as unnecessary.  Drone strikes in Afghanistan are not considered when comparing Bush to Obama to Trump because it is a war zone where the field commanders now make the decisions on who to "drone".

So actually the body count is higher in the past three years but for "whatever" reason this Administration decided the "we the people" don't need to know that information.

https://warontherocks.com/2019/04/trump-cancels-drone-strike-civilian-casualty-report-does-it-matter/

This contrasts with media reports that Trump is ordering substantially more drone strikes than Obama. For example, the BBC claims that “there have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr. Obama’s eight years in office,” citing BIJ data.

But don't dismiss this article, it is actually pro Trump.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
4.2.1  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Split Personality @4.2    3 months ago
Assuming you are not off topic....

He actually was on topic, the article discussed AP headline.

So far the current POTUS has doubled the amount of drone strikes in the Afghan war zone and cancelled the reports of civilian casualties

Right in a War zone, You know a Zone recognized by congress? How many Bombs did the piece of shit obama drop outside of war zones? Yeah I'm sure it doesn't matter to the TDS sufferers because you know "But Trump".

 
 
 
Split Personality
4.2.2  Split Personality  replied to  KDMichigan @4.2.1    3 months ago

Actually KDM

Bush averaged 57 per month over the few years of the initial drone program

Obama averaged 79 per month over 8 years outside of Afghanistan

Trump averaged 60% more than Obama in his first 2 years outside of Afghanistan

Figure vary by source and I try to only use pro Trump articles to make my point.

I am tired of posting the same Pro Trump BS every week to people who don't knpw hoe many drone strikes there were or how thaey are calculated inside and outside of a war zone.  Trump has eclipsed his predecessors and turned off the public reporting to boot.  Can't let information about how many more civilians are killed under Trump than previous Administrations get out now can we?  bad optics.

Does it not make sense to you that in order to "win" an unwinnable war

trump would escalate drone strikes to enable the US to ultimately pull out of

Afghanistan & Pakistan, possibility Syria, Yemen, Somalia and  Kenya?

Hence more drone strikes, more assassinations, more collateral damages as in more civilians killed and more terrorists created.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207

Just my opinion mind you...

but I guess it doesn't matter to ODS sufferers, butt......Obama,

LMAO

 
 
 
Kathleen
4.3  Kathleen  replied to  Tacos! @4    3 months ago

That man just can’t do anything right.  Trump has his issues, but I have never seen so much bullshit in my life.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @4    3 months ago
You get the Nobel Peace Prize, mate!

Keep dreaming. 

He did whine about it though.  He's actually jealous of the Prime Minister of Ethiopia. As a Trumpster, you must be so proud. 

“He was talking about Egypt and Ethiopia,” a senior Ethio­pian government official told the Associated Press on the condition ...
 
 
 
JohnRussell
4.4.1  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @4.4    3 months ago
his comments Thursday included a remark that caught the attention of many in Ethiopia, whose prime minister was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, largely for his work securing   a peace deal with neighboring Eritrea   after decades of hostilities.

“I made a deal, I saved a country, and I just heard that the head of that country is now getting the Nobel Peace Prize for saving the country. I said, ‘What, did I have something do with it?’ ” Trump asked the crowd.

“Yeah,” Trump said, answering his own question. “But that’s the way it is.”
Trump played no apparent role in the Eritrea peace deal,

He's an asshole.  Maybe where you come from assholes are popular people. Not where I come from. 

 
 
 
CometRider
4.4.2  CometRider  replied to  JohnRussell @4.4.1    3 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
5  Freedom Warrior    3 months ago

This is a perfect example why Iran should never have a nuclear weapon.

"Oops we just fired a nuke into Israel because we mistook a commercial jetliner for a Bomber"

 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Freedom Warrior @5    3 months ago
This is a perfect example why Iran should never have a nuclear weapon.

Was there ever any doubt?

 
 
 
Sunshine
6  Sunshine    3 months ago

Iran shoots down a plane departing from their own airport and Democrats blame Trump....liberal logic. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1  Split Personality  replied to  Sunshine @6    3 months ago

A President of the USA threatened overwhelming retaliation for any act of aggression towards American forces or assets.

The Iranians did just that.

It's likely that the Iranian in charge of this SA-15 unit thought he was shooting down a B-2 bomber leaving Tehran airspace and images of medals and virgins dancing in his head.

I would be surprised if he and his crew were still alive.  Iran would have to grow up too quickly to admit the obvious.

And if he shot down a civilian plane, so what? It's happened before.

The Facts about the US shoot-down of Flight 655

After the  Vincennes  shot down Flight 655, as Fred Kaplan noted in his  Slate  piece, Vice President George H. W. Bush responded by saying, “I will never apologize for the United States of America—I don’t care what the facts are.”

The facts were that the Aegis cruiser  USS Vincennes , under the command of Captain Will Rogers III, had entered Iran’s territorial waters and opened fire on  and sank  two Iranian gunboats posing no threat to the American vessels. (Aboard another Iranian boat the  Vincennes  was passing by at the same moment Rogers gave the order to open fire, the crew was seen relaxing topside, as  captured  by the camera of US Navy journalists.)

At the time, as a Navy investigation later acknowledged, the  Vincennes  detected a plane ascending “on a normal commercial air flight plan profile” and squawking a transponder signal identifying itself as a commercial aircraft.

Aboard the  Sides , with identical radar information as received aboard the  Vincennes , Captain Carlson  determined  the plane was a “non-threat”.

Aboard the  Vincennes , Lieutenant William Montford warned Captain Rogers that the plane was “possible COMAIR”, but Rogers nevertheless ostensibly convinced himself that his ship was under attack from an F-14 fighter plane and minutes later ordered it shot down.
https://theduran.com/the-forgotten-us-shoot-down-of-iranian-airliner-flight-655/

We (the USA ) eventually stopped denying what was obvious and apologized and settled the lawsuits for $69.1 million.

I am pretty certain the Iranians know whats coming and are figuring out the settlements already.

Like the US they will eventually settle, maybe not publicly, but they will settle.

 
 
 
Sunshine
6.1.1  Sunshine  replied to  Split Personality @6.1    3 months ago
A President of the USA threatened overwhelming retaliation for any act of aggression towards American forces or assets.

Big fucking deal.  Iran has never been threatened?  Their military is not in communication with their major international airport.  

The excuses manufactured for this country's fuck up is shocking.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.2  Split Personality  replied to  Sunshine @6.1.1    3 months ago

What excuse.  They are incompetent period. they will eventually admit this and settle with the victims.

This air crash might have saved untold American military lives.

The excuses manufactured for this country's fuck up is shocking.  

Which country?  In the fog of war there is so much blame to spread around.

Every god damned time.

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.3  MUVA  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.2    3 months ago

Iran is responsible no one else  the blame falls solely on Iran. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  MUVA @6.1.3    3 months ago

I don't disagree but don't think this won't go to the World Court with Iran saying the US created a war atmosphere in an attempt to keep the damages down, at least to the foreigners.

They can demand thanks from their own people for sending them to Allah sooner. jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sunshine
6.1.5  Sunshine  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.2    3 months ago
 In the fog of war there is so much blame to spread around.

What war?

Your sympathy and empty excuses for Iran killing 176 innocent civilians is disturbing.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.6  Split Personality  replied to  Sunshine @6.1.5    3 months ago

Well your interpretation is nothing short of astounding.

In 1988 it was Iran threatening US naval ships.

I had the same sympathy for Capt Rogers when he fucked up, pursued  2 or 3 small insignificant Iranian naval vessels by surprise and shot another 290 people out of the sky in an "error of judgement".

Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

 
 
 
Krishna
6.1.7  Krishna  replied to  Split Personality @6.1    3 months ago

I just saw this comment. (#6.1)

However before I scrolled this far down the page I also made a comment about the same incident (see # 3. 3 and 3  .3. 1)

 
 
 
Krishna
6.1.8  Krishna  replied to  Sunshine @6.1.5    3 months ago
What war?

Are you implying that there is no war going on there...and therefore the U.S. was wrong in killing Suleimani?

(Perhaps you are right-- I don't know as I'm not an expert in International Law)

 
 
 
KDMichigan
6.1.9  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Split Personality @6.1    3 months ago

Again,
What the fuck does your comment have to do with the seed? Try to stay on topic, Dems blaming Trump for Iran shooting down jet.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.10  Split Personality  replied to  KDMichigan @6.1.9    3 months ago

Well I and others would think that the history of the USA shooting down an Iranian airliner in 1988 and blaming the Ayatollah, Iran and the pilots of flight 655 is pertinent to the story of Iran again being on a war footing and another plane full of Iranians is shot down with them blaming the US and our POTUS for war tensions would be on topic as the RA ruled last night.

Aside from that, the seed is now pointless as the Iranians have admitted that they shot the plane down believing it to be a

US B-2 or a US Cruise missile.

https://thenewstalkers.com/community/discussion/49174/under-pressure-iran-admits-it-shot-down-jetliner-by-mistake

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.11  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.10    3 months ago

on top of that the President is deflecting blame to Obama.

But.........Obama!!!

 
 
 
KDMichigan
6.1.12  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.11    3 months ago

Try reading the article, It has to do with the Dems blaming Trump for the shooting down of the jet. [Deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.4    3 months ago
I don't disagree but don't think this won't go to the World Court with Iran saying the US created a war atmosphere in an attempt to keep the damages down, at least to the foreigners.

Well, reasonably intelligent people will look and see that we fired no missiles into Iran.

Whatever Iran did in shooting down a passenger jetliner is ALL on Iran. We didn't have a damn thing to do with it, and I really hate when anyone attempts to blame the US for Iranian actions.

Iran OWNS this all by themselves.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.14  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.13    3 months ago

AND many, many people will agree with you, reasonably intelligent and otherwise.

But as the seed suggest others blame the President to a degree, and he blames the previous President and several other Administrations.

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.14    3 months ago
But as the seed suggest others blame the President to a degree, and he blames the previous President and several other Administrations.

I don't care if fools choose to blame the President for what Iran di all on their own. It merely displays their ignorance for all to see.

Blaming past Presidents may be wrong, but one does tend to wonder what would have happened if we had taken care of this long ago, instead of pussyfooting around and having policies of appeasement.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.17  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.15    3 months ago

And there you hit the nail on the head.

US foreign policy has appeased non Communist terrorist regimes since WWI, IF they have OIL.

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
6.1.18  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  Split Personality @6.1    3 months ago

That Iranian radar and SAM site would never have detected a B-2 bomber if one were to have been there.  

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
6.1.19  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  KDMichigan @6.1.12    3 months ago

Well said. 👍

 
 
 
KDMichigan
6.1.20  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  Donald J. Trump Fan #1 @6.1.18    3 months ago
That Iranian radar and SAM site would never have detected a B-2 bomber if one were to have been there.  

Well in SP previous posts he championed how Iran's national guard was so awesome they were actually launching missiles at our troops but not trying to hit them. 

256

 
 
 
Sunshine
7  Sunshine    3 months ago

384

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
8  Buzz of the Orient    3 months ago
 
 
 
It Is ME
9  It Is ME    3 months ago

When Democrats "HATE" Someone....they ALWAYS do the "fail Safe" ……. "Love thy Enemy"...….Before they didn't ! jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
lib50
9.1  lib50  replied to  It Is ME @9    3 months ago

I'd say republicans have a lot of nerve accusing democrats or anyone else of siding with the enemy when Trump has his entire head up Putin's ass, not easy when he also appeases Kim, MBS and Erdogan.  Republicans are not patriotic at all, they are trying to justify Trump wagging the dog.  He laid it all out years ago when he accused Obama of preparing to do it. 

The shooting down of the airliner was a tragedy, horrible, sad, and not totally unexpected because this shit happens in conflicts.   When actions are taken, you own part of the consequences, intended or not.  Its one of the reasons Bush and Obama didn't take the guy out.  Trump didn't even spend a second thinking about the consequences or what the plan would be in the aftermath of the killing.  Trump does own things that are part of that decision.  And that is how most people see it.  A very very sad consequence of wars are civilians caught in the middle.  And the same neocons who brought us Iraq are the same ones in Trump's ear with Iran.

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  lib50 @9.1    3 months ago
I'd say republicans have a lot of nerve accusing democrats or anyone else of siding with the enemy when Trump has his entire head up Putin's ass

Trump Sanctions against Russia, say otherwise. jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
9.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  lib50 @9.1    3 months ago

Trump had as much to do with Iran's stupid-ass actions in shooting down a passenger airliner as you did.

None.

Why do some wish to make excuses for IRAN, FFS?

 
 
 
It Is ME
9.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.2    3 months ago
Why do some wish to make excuses for IRAN, FFS?

TDS to the Max-im. They spend too much time wondering about "Modeling under-wearouts".

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump Fan #1
9.1.4  Donald J. Trump Fan #1  replied to  It Is ME @9.1.3    3 months ago

Exactly.  All the trump blaming and off topic comments on this seed are about TDS to the Max.  

 
 
 
KDMichigan
9.1.5  seeder  KDMichigan  replied to  lib50 @9.1    3 months ago
When actions are taken, you own part of the consequences, intended or not. 

I'm sorry but I can not put the blame on President Trump for Iran shooting down a plane, If Iran wasn't sponsoring terrorisms with their General he wouldn't be found in a crater. Hell lets blame Jimmy Carter for Iran shooting down a jet using proglib logic.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
9.1.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  KDMichigan @9.1.5    3 months ago

I've come to the conclusion from everything I've been reading, that if a Democrat had a severe cardiac arrest and Trump rescued him and resuscitated him and got his heart beating again, the Democrat would accuse Trump of bruising his chest. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
9.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9.1.6    3 months ago

A better question would be to ask people if they saw Trump having a heart attack would they rescue him. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
10  Texan1211    3 months ago

Gee, I remember the good old days when Americans came together to condemn countries like Iran that committed the same stupid acts.

Of course, back then,  Americans didn't tend to support terrorist regimes.

 
 
 
MUVA
10.1  MUVA  replied to  Texan1211 @10    3 months ago

Now Iran shoots down a plane and some on the left run to blame our president.

 
 
 
Split Personality
10.2  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @10    3 months ago
Of course, back then,  Americans didn't tend to support terrorist regimes.

Define your "good old days" time frame.

In the past we have been allies of pre WWII Japan when they were committing atrocities in Korea and China.

We were allies with Josef Stalin while he terrorized his own people during and after WWII

We were allies with The Shah of Iran and propped his murderous ass up for decades.

Ditto Sadam Hussein who was probably surprised at how badly he underestimated George H Bush.

Ditto, we supported or ignored Qaddafi in Libya until we didn't.

Hell, Texan1211, based on the White House's long lived love affair with the Royal House of Saud

one would have to conclude that 

the US has had a blind spot for terrorists if they have an abundance of oil.

All of the 911 attackers were Saudis and the US actually blocked 911 related legal actions against Saudi Arabia for 15 years

until JASTA passed in 2016.

(In 2018 a Federal Judge finally allowed the lawsuits against SA to continue).

Of course American never supports Communist terrorist regimes, we have standards./s

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @10.2    3 months ago
Define your "good old days" time frame.

I stated absolutely nothing about "good old days". I mentioned what America used to be like. Had I mentioned slavery, would you have assumed I wanted a return to it? 

Of course American never supports Communist terrorist regimes, we have standards./s

I made no such claim. No sarcasm tag necessary on my post.

If you are one who believes that our foreign policies over the year are wildly successful and should be continued as is, so be it. I disagree vehemently. Our policies have helped lead us to our present state. Time to try something different than mere handwringing and appeasement.

It is a proven fact that ignoring things like attacks on Americans and our embassies does NOT stop said attacks.

 
 
 
Split Personality
10.2.2  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @10.2.1    3 months ago

Oh come on already, this was your comment ( #10)

Gee, I remember the good old days when Americans came together to condemn countries like Iran that committed the same stupid acts.

Of course, back then,  Americans didn't tend to support terrorist regimes.

smh

I made no such claim

No one said you did. Stop being so defensive already.

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  Split Personality @10.2.2    3 months ago
Oh come on already, this was your comment ( #10)

I know what I wrote.

smh

And?

No one said you did. Stop being so defensive already.
 

stop attributing things I don't say to me and I will never need to be defensive about your comments.

If you can't see the difference between now and 30-40 years ago, then that is on you personally, not me.

 
 
 
Split Personality
10.2.4  Split Personality  replied to  Texan1211 @10.2.3    3 months ago

I know what I wrote and I know the value of understanding history.

i attributed nothing to you, I asked you for YOUR  definition or time frame of the good old days, nothing more,

the rest of the commentary was mine and mine alone.

have a good Saturday Tex.

jrSmiley_99_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
10.2.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Split Personality @10.2    3 months ago
"Of course American never supports Communist terrorist regimes, we have standards./s"

Texan1211 used the words:  "Americans didn't tend to support terrorist regimes."  Yet you added the word "Communist" and I would like you to explain why you did that.  Now I'm sure you know I'm not a Communist just because I live in a Communist country, and in fact I've posted many times that I am entirely apolitical here and I have supported the Canada and Ontario Conservative Parties for at least the last 40 years. I am a Canadian citizen and I will never be a Chinese citizen, only a resident.  Do you consider China to be a "terrorist" regime?  I certainly don't, but then I live in China and I'll bet you've never been there but only get the picture of it from what you read or see on TV.  The only terrorism I've seen that has anything to do with China is internal, and caused by separatists and dissidents.  And as you know, there is no such thing as bias and fake stories in what you get to see in America. /s

 
 
 
Split Personality
10.2.6  Split Personality  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @10.2.5    3 months ago

Brother Buzz, fellow human, fellow NT member with privileges, perhaps you can reread what I wrote with your keen eye for editing next time around.

I explicitly said that the US has always maintained & supported terrorist nations that produce oil,

unless they are Communist nations.  Where did I slight your China or Canada?  Where did I insult you?

I will never be a Chinese citizen, only a resident. 

Immaterial.

Do you consider China to be a "terrorist" regime? 

There is always a case to be made that China and Russia and other nations support financial, political and military dissension around the world, it a basic part of the human game but I didn't say or imply that.  Please don't put words in other peoples mouths.

I certainly don't, but then I live in China and I'll bet you've never been there but only get the picture of it from what you read or see on TV. 

Absolutely true, I have never "officially" been west of Guam. Your news about the rest of the world outside of China is undoubtedly filtered and biased. As you remember, we Americans and Canadians living in North America have our choice of biased news stations to watch and listen to.  Do you?

The only terrorism I've seen that has anything to do with China is internal, and caused by separatists and dissidents.

Again immaterial to anything I wrote previously on this seed. You are creating a straw man.

And as you know, there is no such thing as bias and fake stories in what you get to see in America. /s

Question, as this last statement is obviously false, did you intend the sarc tag to only apply to the last sentence

or the whole rant?

Seriously, SP

 
 
 
Texan1211
11  Texan1211    3 months ago
Every administration needs to forge its' own path, foreign and domestic, separate from past administrations while taking their missteps into consideration lest history repeat itself.

Then please tell that to the fools who keep blaming Trump for doing exactly what you suggest--forging his own path.

Trump did what other Presidents refused to do--just like he did when he moved our embassy to Jerusalem.

Some don't like it, but it is all well within his right to do as President.

 
 
 
Ronin2
12  Ronin2    3 months ago

Every time the Democrats open their mouths they are proving they are the greater of two evils.

I hate the whole "voting for the lesser of two evils" garbage; but the Democrats are making this way too easy.

 
 
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