The Democrats are winning the argument
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
The Democrats are winning the argument even though they’ll lose the Senate trial
JANUARY 22, 2020
The beginning of the impeachment trial of President Trump made clear that Democrats have not only the stronger arguments but also the stronger arguers. The House impeachment managers did a masterful job on Tuesday of marshaling the evidence to argue that the Senate needs to hold a real trial complete with witnesses — something that, as they pointed out, has occurred in every previous impeachment trial in history. But knowing they may be stymied by a Senate majority intent on holding a show trial, they made their substantive arguments from the start — and they did so in a way that is likely to convince most voters if not most senators.
The impeachment managers especially shined during impromptu rebuttals. Former assistant attorney general Walter Dellinger joined a chorus of praise for Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.): “Schiff is not just good. Today is one of the most impressive performances by a lawyer I have ever seen.” But dazzling as Schiff was, he may have been matched by Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.). Responding to Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow’s question “Why are we here?”, Jeffries put on a master class in forensics. “We are here, sir, because President Trump corruptly abused his power and then he tried to cover it up,” he said , concluding with a quote from The Notorious B.I.G.: “And if you don’t know, now you know.” The only stumble so far was Rep. Jerrold Nadler’s (D-N.Y.) impolitic accusation that Republican senators were guilty of a “treacherous vote” and a “shameful coverup.” Even some Democratic senators said he had gone too far.
Trump’s lawyers were far worse. They played a bad hand badly. Admittedly, they are handicapped by the inescapable reality that their client is guilty as sin. They can’t seriously dispute that Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate former vice president Joe Biden — the president said as much from the White House lawn. They can’t even dispute that Trump held up military aid to Ukraine to pressure its government into doing what he wanted. Their only defense on the merits is to claim that the president wasn’t concerned with smearing a Democratic rival but with fighting corruption. But that’s an absurd argument to make given that Trump never mentioned fighting corruption in general during his two phone calls with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky — and given that, as my Post colleague Catherine Rampell notes , he is trying to legalize bribery by American companies.
Still, Johnnie Cochran showed during the O.J. Simpson trial that it is possible to be effective even when the facts are not on your side. You don’t have to resort to outright lying as the president’s lawyers did.
White House Counsel Pat Cipollone claimed on Tuesday that “Not even Mr. Schiff’s Republican colleagues were allowed into the SCIF” — referring to the Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility in which the House Intelligence Committee conducted depositions of witnesses. False. The 48 Republican members of the three committees involved in impeachment proceedings had access to the basement SCIF.
Cipollone also repeated the absurd claim that Schiff “manufactured a false version” of the July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky. False. Schiff did not deceive anyone about a partial transcript that had already been made public. Schiff said at the time, “Shorn of its rambling character and in not so many words, this is the essence of what the president communicates.”
Making his own contribution to this blizzard of bunkum, Sekulow claimed that “the president was denied the right to cross-examine witnesses … denied the right to access evidence … and denied the right to have counsel present at hearings. That’s a trifecta, a trifecta that violates the Constitution of the United States.” False. The president was offered a chance to have his lawyers participate in House proceedings and declined to take it.
Sekulow also claimed that the Mueller report exonerated Trump of obstruction of justice. False. The report showed that the elements of obstruction were present.
But these are relatively inconsequential whoppers compared with the biggest lie of all. This is the oft-repeated claim that a president can only be impeached for breaking the law — not for abuse of office. Not even Jonathan Turley, the star Republican witness during the House Judiciary Committee’s impeachment hearing, is buying it. He wrote in Wednesday’s edition of The Post: “It is a view that is at odds with history and the purpose of the Constitution. While Framers did not want terms such as ‘maladministration’ in the standard as dangerously too broad, they often spoke of impeachable conduct in noncriminal terms.” Many of the president’s defenders, including his lawyer Alan Dershowitz and Attorney General William P. Barr , have made similar arguments in the past. They have only taken the contrary position today because it is more politically convenient to embrace a lie than to grapple with the terrible truth.
It should be no surprise that the lawyers representing a president who has made more than 16,241 false statements since taking office should resort to their own lies — and it won’t matter for the president’s die-hard supporters. The Fifth Avenue Republicans will back Trump no matter what. But a recent CNN poll found that 51 percent of Americans think Trump should be convicted and 58 percent think he abused his power. The transparently false arguments by Trump lawyers will not convince those majorities that they are wrong. The Trump team will win an acquittal in the Senate no matter how badly they argue but, on the present trajectory, they won’t win in the court of public opinion.
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The facts arent good for Trump.
Can his army of trumpsters hold up under the strain?
Obviously not, take a look at Fox, they are presenting the defense instead of showing the hearing. They don't want their stooges to hear the truth.
Only in your dreams!
laughable. What the facts demonstrate is that the president's defense team should move for dismissal immediately following opening arguments. the Democrats continue to demonstrate that they are enemies of this Republic.
Not one Republican Senator including lefty Romney will vote for the impeachment.
Fox must think its pretty bad for them if they don't have the balls to SHOW THE HEARING!
no factual basis....pfft
What are they showing? I dont have Fox News Channel anymore.
Bret Baier is showing the hearing. 'The five' show showed endless commercials and their defense of Trump and why dems are so unfair. Not a bit of the hearing except the picture box in the corner. Whining about the hearings.
Keep 'em ignorant. Gop motto.
I guess this is proof Fox isn't a news station (as if we needed that). Only one reason they don't show it, and that is because they don't want their idiot viewers to hear anything but their propaganda and Trump defense. Because they don't want to hear the facts.
In a nut shell, 8-10 hours of blabbering bullshit isn't worth their time. All the other outlets are covering it with bated breath hoping the way that you do for the outcome. Someone has to go beyond the madness that is............
Some people have better things to do with their time than sit in front of a TV watching a bunch of pompous assed elitist fools crying over an election. And the thing I find hilarious, other than Chuck's performance this morning and Schiff all the way through with his little buddy Nadler, when the smoke all clears, the "trial" (snicker) is done is the fact that he will still be referred to, after his second term and into a well deserved retirement, as Former President Donald Trump. Just like all the rest. Including Former President Richard Millhouse Nixon.
hahaHAHA HAHAHA
No, you are projecting again. These are my talking points.
Well, muv, interesting that Fox is now showing the defense side of the hearings! They didn't have the balls to allow their sheeple to hear the dems presentation, but they are making sure they put the defense on. (Rather pathetic defense so far). Fox must really think their viewers are morons.
WTF are you talking about ?
Fox Showed ALL the Dem managers Rantings !
I had to tune to FOX, because the "Lefty" shows kept interrupting with "Self" indulgent "Opinions" of what they heard.
I wanted to hear everything discussed from start to finish, with no interruption.
I'm WIERD THAT WAY !
Thus...."FOX" was the place to be.
True.
Still MUCH BETTER than the other shows, where the left had a need to feed in "Opinion", to further the Dem managers Prosecution.
I had a hard time staying awake those days of "Innuendo and Conjecture" from the Dem managers !
SENATE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS. Can't deny they stopped their sheeple from seeing the dems present their case. Guess what they are currently showing without interruption? Baaaaa
Funny Pam Bondi not mentioning she was making twice as much per month as Hunter from Qatar for no apparent reason.
"Bondi registered in July under FARA — Foreign Agents Registration Act — as a part-time, $115,000-per-month lobbyist for Qatar." https:// palmbeachpost.com/news/20191111/ cerabino-keeping-america-and-qatar-great-floridarsquos-bondi-is-slave-to-task
What are the chances Bondi got this "job" from Qatar because she is a friend of Trump?
What are the chances Bondi got this "job" from Qatar because she is a friend of Trump? 95% or 100% ?
Is Bondi Pence's kid?
If you have problems with this, you must be really upset about the incredibly unqualified Roger Clinton, I mean Hunter Biden, taking the job from Burisma.
Huh?
Yea, just saw that, for about a hot minute. Compare the coverage from last week, I dare you.
Fox did NOT have the full hearings on last week. Didn't even show closing statement. I don't know what you were watching. The 5? Hannity? Tucker? Even when I thought they started showing hearings full on Bret Baier's show they weren't.
I am betting that some of his own are turning knowing that their careers are on the line and that Trump is not worth loosing their paychecks over.
They will lose their paychecks anyways. If they turn on Trump they will be either have strong primary opponents; or not have the voter support to win in the general elections. Even Mitt Romney is starting to see the light.
Funny how the left can support Bill Clinton, who was guilty as sin and deserved to be removed from office; but expect Trump to be impeached based on second and third hand information. When not one of the damn "witnesses" stated he broke any laws.
So you're drinking the Dershowitz koolaid.
The question isnt if they are worthy jobs, it is if the Trump spawn would think so.
Maybe Trumpers should think about that when they are lying about the Bidens. Want to talk about political spawn and their jobs? Bring it on. Just stop with the freaking hypocrisy and lies.
And THAT IS A LIE. We are all so sick and tired of hearing that LIE. Biden didn't 'get him fired'. He was tasked by the US government and our allies to have Ukraine remove the corrupt prosecutor who had stopped investigating corruption, including into Burisma, which was NOT being investigated at the time. And Hunter Biden was a political spawn getting a high paying job due to his birth. Just like fucking Trump spawn, Paul spawn, Kennedy spawn.......He isn't accused of anything except taking that job. If you don't know its a lie, not surprised since gopers are repeating it ad nauseam. But it is.
The British were NOT investigating Zlochevskyi, they were petitioned to freeze his funds by the Ukrainians. They did so pending a hearing and after Shorkin FAILED to submit ANY evidence for their allegation, the British released the funds.
In short, Shorkin's incompetence and/or corruption cost the Ukrainians 20+ millions if the allegations against Zlochevskyi are true.
THOSE are the fucking facts.
But ya, Trump's opinion that Shorkin was a 'very fine prosecutor' should void all of that right?
If Sorkin was investigating Burisma, WHY didn't he provide the UK with EVIDENCE to retain the hold on the funds they froze?
Come on XD, you've got the facts right? Let's hear them.
The UK SFO was begging for some EVIDENCE, Sorkin had MONTHS to provide that EVIDENCE, the SFO got NONE. That's in contrast to VOLUMES of evidence provided by Zlochevskyi documenting where his business permits came from, where his income came from and the taxes that he paid on that income.
Oh you knew this was all about an allegation that Zlochevskyi failed to pay taxes on his income right?
It takes a lot of gall for Trump's no good lousy lawyers to lie through their crooked teeth right in front of the American People, the whole US Senate and the frigging Chief Justice of the United States. Don't they realize everyone who is watching knows? They are Shameless! Absolutely Shameless...
History will be unkind to the damn gop for all of this!
After all is said and done truth will always come out...
Per the morning consult poll, support for impeachment has dropped 5% since the partisan House vote.
Keep winning like that and you will ensure 4 more years of Trump
This impeachment proceeding is a chance, probably the last chance, for the Republicans and conservatives of this country to come to their senses.
Dump Trump and pick another candidate at your summer convention.
We can give the Trump voters from 2016 a mulligan and let them correct their mistake.
If they actually try to put this incredibly guilty and worthless man back into power in this country, it is hard to see anything but outright national disaster ahead.
We are quickly becoming a pariah to our once allies and I don't blame them for turning their backs on us.
heard that one before also...
when trump is re-elected democrats will be screaming at the sky again.
Hopefully when Trump gets a historic whooping this Fall Trump and Trumpism will pass peacefully into being an unfortunate footnote in American history. A cautionary tale future generations will look back on like slavery, the Civil War and Mccarthyism in utter disbelief that such travesties and rank corruption could ever be allowed to infect the American body politic. Something we survived together and are thus dedicated to never let happen ever again. NEVER AGAIN!
Hopefully it will end peaceably within the next year...
keep dreaming.. LOL
"The beginning of the impeachment trial of President Trump made clear that Democrats have not only the stronger arguments but also the stronger arguers. The House impeachment managers did a masterful job on Tuesday of marshaling the evidence to argue that the Senate needs to hold a real trial complete with witnesses"
Give it time.
The "Defense" has 24 hrs of "Talk Time" too. The first 24 hrs., will be "Forgotten" after that !
Same BS different day.
Dems contending the fact that the Defense team is quiet for the House's opening arguments proves they know Trump is guilty.
The only thing they have laid out is the same bad arguments they used to impeach. Witnesses with second and third hand information in closed door testimony, with the Dems leaking only things they found damaging to influence public opinion. They need to be reminded a thousand times it seems that it was the House's job to investigate. The fact they rushed impeachment w/o "key" witnesses testifying proves they are full of it. If they were really concerned about justice, and the truth, they would have gone through the courts and waited for the decisions to be reached on allowing those they wanted to testify.
They didn't have shit, so took the easy way out; and now expect the Republican Senate to bail their dumb asses out.
In a more "Emotional" Form than before !
Fit's with their "I have a FEELING" witness's they brought forth, touting their testimonies as..... fact !
Now they're on TV, "Crying" how the Senate....."MUST FIX THIER FUCKUP".....before the next presidential election !
Fox News' top legal analyst Judge Napolitano: "What is required for removal of the president? A demonstration of presidential commission of high crimes and misdemeanors, of which in Trump's case the evidence is ample and uncontradicted."
sorry but im streaming the proceedings on CBSN, and they have not been interrupting with commentary during the proceedings.
and way I see it we are in day 3, 2 days of the managers presenting their case, and still have to hear from the other side .
who will be winning or losing will be told when it comes time for that roll call vote.
Per ABC, Trump just his highest approval rating of his Presidency. Americans are now happier with the country that at any point since 2005.
Keep "winning" Democrats