Trump Wants to Bail Out Airlines and Cruise Ships. How About Us?

  
Via:  john-russell  •  2 months ago  •  106 comments

Trump Wants to Bail Out Airlines and Cruise Ships. How About Us?

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T




Trump Wants to Bail Out Airlines and Cruise Ships. How About Us?











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Trump Wants to Bail Out Airlines and Cruise Ships. How About Us?






OVER A CLIFF


If 2008 and 2009 are any indication, the industry bailouts Trump’s talking about are coming—and the beneficiaries will be wealthy Americans and the politicians they call their own.







David Rothkopf









200316-Rothkopf-trump-cruise-tease_gfgfl







Get out your checkbooks. The rich are about to ask for another handout. 

Yes, the airline industry used 96 percent of its free cash flow during the last decade on stock buybacks. Yes, that’s tens of billions of dollars it could have used as a safety net to aid it in times like these. But Monday, in the wake of the industry saying it wanted a $50 billion handout from the government to help it get through the current downturn in travel, the president said the U.S. will back them up as needed. Cruise-line executives have indicated they would need help. Energy executives hurt by plummeting oil prices are already getting help through the government’s plan to buy oil for the national strategic reserves. Hotel owners have said they may “need” assistance from our Hotelier-in-Chief, who knows something about their businesses and plenty about using other people’s money to get out of tight spots. And Monday night,   even the casinos got in on the action and put their hands out. 

The question now is what remains   for the rest of us   as markets are being rocked as never before thanks not only to the crisis but due to its mishandling by the president, his team, and other nearly as bad governments worldwide. (I’m looking at you, Boris Johnson, and your insane idea of letting the disease run its course in the hopes of creating “herd immunity,” while potentially losing hundreds of thousands of British lives along the way.) 






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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 months ago

Capitalists hate "socialism" until they need it. 

If we had a libertarian society and a pandemic hit the cruise industry, I guess that would be the end of the cruise industry. 

There are reasons human beings unite and form rules (government) for the society.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago
Capitalists hate "socialism" until they need it.

How are they going to support Trump's stimulus while still disparaging Obama's?  I forecast some very dizzy right wingers very soon.

giphy.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1    2 months ago
How are they going to support Trump's stimulus while still disparaging Obama's? 

Probably the same way many cheered Obama's bailouts but now disparage Trump's bailouts?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.1    2 months ago

Does it ever occur to you that most of what you do here is "whataboutism?" 

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    2 months ago

If you don't want me to point out hypocritical behaviors, then please cease in participating in such behaviors, if it bothers you so.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
1.1.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.3    2 months ago
If you don't want me to point out hypocritical behaviors, then please cease in participating in such behaviors, if it bothers you so.

The difference is that your "whataboutism" is general in nature, while we use specifics.

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.4    2 months ago
The difference is that your "whataboutism" is general in nature, while we use specifics.

LOL! That's rich coming from you after what you posted. I was as specific as you were.

Her is what you wrote, and then my response.

You----How are they going to support Trump's stimulus while still disparaging Obama's?  I forecast some very dizzy right wingers very soon.

Me---Probably the same way many cheered Obama's bailouts but now disparage Trump's bailouts?

Point out YOUR specifics. Then do the same for my comment.

SMMFH

 
 
 
Ozzwald
1.1.6  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.5    2 months ago
Point out YOUR specifics.

Specifics:

  • Right wingers
  • cheering Trump stimulus
  • continuing to disparage Obama stimulus
 
 
 
MUVA
1.1.7  MUVA  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.4    2 months ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
bugsy
1.1.8  bugsy  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.4    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
CB
1.1.9  CB   replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    2 months ago

Watch 'em John. It's the old switcheroo. And, oh, ODS has struck again! Projection is out on the lam again too!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago

Wrong again!

On Tuesday Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said that the administration wants to send checks to Americans “in the next two weeks”

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago
  • Billionaire entrepreneur Mark Cuban told CNBC that companies that receive federal assistance in response to the coronavirus should be prevented from buying back stock ever again. 
  • “Not now. Not a year from now. Not 20 years from now. Not ever,” Cuban said.
  • He also said, “Whatever we do in a bailout, make sure that every worker is compensated and treated equally.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/mark-cuban-says-bailed-out-companies-should-never-be-allowed-to-buy-back-their-stocks-ever-again.html

 
 
 
devangelical
1.3.1  devangelical  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3    2 months ago

if the airlines need cash, let them sell stock, in this market...

 
 
 
freepress
2  freepress    2 months ago

He will bailout any business that feeds his own global businesses. How will rich folks get to a Trump golf course or hotel or other global interest once this over? He will bail out his supply chain 1st.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  freepress @2    2 months ago
He will bailout any business that feeds his own global businesses. How will rich folks get to a Trump golf course or hotel or other global interest once this over? He will bail out his supply chain 1st.

As president he doesn't have the freedom to do anything that personally would benefit his interests. In case you forgot, spending bills originate in the House of Representative.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1    2 months ago
As president he doesn't have the freedom to do anything that personally would benefit his interests. In case you forgot, spending bills originate in the House of Representative. 

Not much sense injecting any reality and facts into their little fantasy.

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.2  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1    2 months ago
In case you forgot, spending bills originate in the House of Representative.

Well Mitch must have forgotten that because he stated that 'phase 3' will start in the Senate: 

“The Senate’s going to stay in session until we finish phase three, the next bill, and send it over to the House ,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said immediately after the vote. He said Republicans hope to agree on a plan with the White House and discuss it with Democrats.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/road-ahead-covid-19-stimulus-still-behind-fisa-on-senate-schedule/ar-BB11gtfx

 
 
 
squiggy
2.1.3  squiggy  replied to  Dulay @2.1.2    2 months ago

You must hate innovation.

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.4  Dulay  replied to  squiggy @2.1.3    2 months ago
You must hate innovation.

You must love obfuscation. 

 
 
 
CB
2.1.5  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    2 months ago

So you are okay with Trump forsaking that hard "facts over feeling" Alt-right mantra and falling back on George Bush's compassionate conservatism? Why not let those industries and the country as a whole-rise and fall on their own power?  # Feelings.  # Election.

 
 
 
Kavika
3  Kavika     2 months ago

Add Boeing to the list as they just asked for $60 billion and Trump has said he is in favor of it.

Boeing spent $43 billion in stock buybacks over the last 6 or so years. Probably wish they had that cash right now, but never fear the US public will bail them out.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
4  seeder  JohnRussell    2 months ago
Boeing spent $43 billion in stock buybacks over the last 6 or so years. Probably wish they had that cash right now

They dont have to do the right thing. They will always have the taxpayer to bail them out. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5  Texan1211    2 months ago

I wonder how many people complaining about these particular bailouts were silent as we bailed out large automakers and banks?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @5    2 months ago

I dont care who they bail out, but NONE of the money should be used for executive bonuses or stock buy backs, none. And that language should be put in the bill, although I doubt it will be. 

But my larger point was that this is socialism.  So the anti-socialists should oppose it. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1    2 months ago
But my larger point was that this is socialism.  So the anti-socialists should oppose it.

Hell, you socialists should be excited and jumping for joy now then!

But instead, here you are bitterly complaining about shit that hasn't even happened yet!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
5.1.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1    2 months ago
NONE of the money should be used for executive bonuses or stock buy backs, none. And that language should be put in the bill, although I doubt it will be. 

" Treasury would determine the interest rates and other terms of any loans, but they would include limits “on increases in executive compensation until repayment of the loans.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/white-house-coronavirus-plan-aims-to-send-dollar2000-to-many-americans-includes-dollar300-billion-for-small-businesses/ar-BB11mKpM?li=BBnb7Kz

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5.1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5.1.2    2 months ago
" Treasury would determine the interest rates and other terms of any loans, but they would include limits “on increases in executive compensation

limits? how about zero? 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.4  igknorantzrulz  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.3    2 months ago

FCK em both.

They think taxpayers' money is their safety net, as they make hundreds of millions just recently.

 
 
 
Ender
5.1.5  Ender  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.4    2 months ago

Yep. Give massive tax breaks and a whirlwind and what happened? They spent the money on themselves.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.1.6  Greg Jones  replied to  Ender @5.1.5    2 months ago
Yep. Give massive tax breaks and a whirlwind and what happened? They spent the money on themselves

Are you sure of that? Can you give us some examples?

 
 
 
loki12
5.1.7  loki12  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.1    2 months ago
But instead, here you are bitterly complaining about shit that hasn't even happened yet!

So Basically, Same shit different day? 

 
 
 
Ender
5.1.8  Ender  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.6    2 months ago

What do you think buybacks are?

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  loki12 @5.1.7    2 months ago

Exactly!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
5.1.10  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.4    2 months ago

You do realize this is loans right? Not a handout. FFS did you think the same thing about the auto industry in 2008-2009? How many fucking people does it have to affect, in your book, before it's a good stop gap plan?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.11  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5.1.10    2 months ago

thought you were against Socialism 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.1.12  Greg Jones  replied to  Ender @5.1.8    2 months ago

In restrospect, it would have been better to pay off debt and/or hold a lot of cash...which is still spending it on themselves.

 
 
 
Ender
5.1.13  Ender  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.12    2 months ago

Yeah but at least they would have had reserves to hold themselves up in bad times.

Supposedly...

 
 
 
loki12
5.1.14  loki12  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.11    2 months ago

So loaning money is socialism? Here I thought it was giving worthless takers free health insurance. Free food, and free housing. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.11    2 months ago
thought you were against Socialism 

Pretty damn weird to confuse loans with socialism.

Senseless.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
5.1.16  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.11    2 months ago

Full blown yes. This is affecting a hell of a lot of people. We are talking actual businesses shutting down NOT just laying people off because of a lack of business. It's, for all intents and purposes, a forced shut down of practically the American way of life. Let me help you out here...............

THEY ARE BEING LOANED MONEY TO HELP THEM STAY AFLOAT AS WELL AS keeping employees at least partially compensated..........

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.17  Texan1211  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5.1.16    2 months ago

gee, you mean the workers Democrats are always crowing about supporting?

Only as campaign noise, it appears!

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.18  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.15    2 months ago

Can you get a loan of BILLIONS of DOLLARS at 0% interest, take that money and lend it to US Taxpayers (whose money it was in the FIRST Place), at ridiculous interest rates of up to almost 30%, and NOT BE ABLE TO PAY IT BACK !?

Cause that's what happened last time an industry that probably should of been left to fail, was BAILED out by US TAXPAYERS !

FCK THEM. They got RIDICULOUS tax breaks and blew them on buybacks and compensation at absurd levels.

How about be fiscally responsible >?

WTF for, when they believe OUR MONEY is THEIR Safety net.

That's NOT CAPITALISM

that's far closer to Socialism, that you fellows are apparently in favor of.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.19  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.18    2 months ago
Cause that's what happened last time an industry that probably should of been left to fail, was BAILED out by US TAXPAYERS !

Man, that is one hell of a spin and about 180 degrees from what most liberals were cheering about last time.

FCK THEM. They got RIDICULOUS tax breaks and blew them on buybacks and compensation at absurd levels.

Did you say FUCK YOU to GM? Chrysler?

that's far closer to Socialism, that you fellows are apparently in favor of.

You are still proving Reagan right some 30+ years later!

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.20  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.19    2 months ago
Did you say FUCK YOU to GM? Chrysler?

Trump granted how many BILLION , 14 or so to bail out our farmers, so like double that auto bailout due to his amatuer handling of Chinese tariffs.

.

Personally i'm against bailouts to any and all companies , but bailouts for companies such as Boeing, after just getting ridiculous tax breaks from Trumps' 'Middle Class tax cuts, laugh out loud" ,as  opposed to the Auto industry that kept thousands of auto workers and parts supplier workers from being unemployed, and such, would have been a bigger drag on our countries economy than non action.

.

The key

IS THE TERMS

.

there should NEVER be CEO's and such getting millions in bonuses after their companies go bankrupt.

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.21  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.20    2 months ago

Since there are no terms as of yet, I believe you are complaining about absolutely nothing.

get back when you have something real to kvetch about.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1.22  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.21    2 months ago
Since there are no terms as of yet, I believe you are complaining about absolutely nothing.

I'm basing it on past bailouts, as stupid as that would be to you, cause Trump is always for the little guy, and janitor of Boeing, and

NEVER the CEO's

 
 
 
Texan1211
5.1.23  Texan1211  replied to  igknorantzrulz @5.1.22    2 months ago
I'm basing it on past bailouts, as stupid as that would be to you, cause Trump is always for the little guy, and janitor of Boeing, and
NEVER the CEO's

So just sheer guesswork, eh?

Still proving Reagan right!

 
 
 
CB
5.1.24  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.1    2 months ago

How's that toothpick working at keeping you afloat in this discussion? There is plenty here to talk about in here, folks. Ignore the Trump spin-meisters fanning out to cover his flank!

 
 
 
CB
5.1.25  CB   replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5.1.10    2 months ago

Don't give 'em shit! Be consistent. Own your words. No handouts. No bailouts. No nothing. Y'all wanted Trump to be a hard-ass and not to give away nothing. Now you got Mitch McConnell 'outfront' with a crooked smile trying to pretend he likes helping people. Where is the new Tea-party caucus?

A bunch of hypocrites! #Electionbuying.

 
 
 
CB
5.1.26  CB   replied to  loki12 @5.1.14    2 months ago

Was the conservative narrative about handouts and bailouts in loans in the 2008 recession and the first Black president was a 'dog' for doing it? Now, 2 trillion dollars is being bandied around and here some of the tea-partiers are defending it. Senator McConnell even 'rode' that wild libertarian Rand Paul back in to the corral!

Amazing how much a conservative can understand when it is holding the levers of power. Amazing! Let them fall out of power and oops I can't remember nothing!

 
 
 
loki12
5.1.27  loki12  replied to  CB @5.1.26    2 months ago

Yawn! Another partisan rant trying to take advantage of dead Americans when there is no fault, when trump uses the stimulus to pay off his cronies and push an agenda you will have a point.

 
 
 
CB
5.1.28  CB   replied to  loki12 @5.1.27    2 months ago

Such rank hypocrisy!

Donald Trump Wanted to Let the Auto Industry go Bankrupt

 
 
 
loki12
5.1.29  loki12  replied to  CB @5.1.28    2 months ago

GM did file bankruptcy and Chrysler got sold. FAIL!

 
 
 
CB
5.1.30  CB   replied to  loki12 @5.1.29    2 months ago

Sigh. President George Bush (on his way out) and President Barack Obama did not give TARP payment to a bankrupted GM and Chrysler. Do not confuse the issue by speeding to timeline conclusion. My remark is a not about recipients' of funding circumstances and problems anyway.

It is about the matter of TARP: the money. Please do not deflect to subordinate details.  

 
 
 
loki12
5.1.31  loki12  replied to  CB @5.1.30    2 months ago

Your wrong! Tarp went to the auto industry and they still declared bankruptcy because Barry was a fucking idiot, and the the worthless shit blew his stimulus on campaign donors, he was a turd of a president.

 
 
 
CB
5.1.32  CB   replied to  loki12 @5.1.31    2 months ago

I won't dignify this any further.

 
 
 
lady in black
6  lady in black    2 months ago

I say NO, they can use the money they spent on stock buy backs.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
6.1  Greg Jones  replied to  lady in black @6    2 months ago

They are just about broke. Yes, they should have paid of debt and kept a lot of cash, but the only people hurting right now are ordinary working people and family providers.

Should they have to suffer just because you don't like Trump?

 
 
 
loki12
6.1.1  loki12  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1    2 months ago

You aren't thinking like a liberal democrat, Put the companies out of business, put all the workers on welfare, then they can vote democrat to get raises and live off the "rich"  

 
 
 
lady in black
6.1.2  lady in black  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1    2 months ago

Not my fault they used their tax windfall unwisely doing stock buybacks...maybe, just maybe if they had banked the money then they wouldn't be in this position.

 
 
 
It Is ME
6.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  lady in black @6.1.2    2 months ago
maybe, just maybe if they had banked the money then they wouldn't be in this position.

Could you say the same for your average "Worker" ?

They seem to have a hard time "Saving" for a "Really Bad Rainy Day" too.

Has it been so bad for the "Workers" in America over the years, they couldn't have even saved 10 or 20 bucks a paycheck the entire time (YEARS) they've been working" ?

 
 
 
lib50
6.1.4  lib50  replied to  It Is ME @6.1.3    2 months ago

MOST Americans are a paycheck away from financial ruin.  One emergency wipes out any 'fund' they may have been lucky enough to save.  That's what happens when real wages stagnate and other costs keep rising. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
6.1.5  It Is ME  replied to  lib50 @6.1.4    2 months ago
MOST Americans are a paycheck away from financial ruin.

How many is ….. MOST ? jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.1.6  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  It Is ME @6.1.5    2 months ago

197,456,389. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
6.1.7  It Is ME  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.6    2 months ago
197,456,389.

I'm sure a "Link" was attached to that number. jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.1.8  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  lib50 @6.1.4    2 months ago

About 15 minutes ago Trump was asked the question . 

"We are hearing that the "well connected" are getting to front of the list for coronavirus testing. Do you approve of that?"

"I don't like it," Trump said, "but isnt that the story of life" ? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.8    2 months ago

And?

 
 
 
loki12
6.1.10  loki12  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1.9    2 months ago

So he tells the truth and John still complains,   And he claims there isn't TDS.

 
 
 
It Is ME
6.1.11  It Is ME  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.8    2 months ago
"but isnt that the story of life"

Always has been. jrSmiley_99_smiley_image.jpg

Even Gov. Cuomo, in his newest "Fire Side" Chat today, told us he told his sister to not get a "Test" …. just because.

Doesn't seem to be in the "Mainstream yet". Must be too new to find so far.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.1.12  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  lady in black @6.1.2    2 months ago

Somewhat off topic but related.

As of right now, the stock market is lower than it was on the day Trump took office.  3 1/2 years of "the greatest stock market of all time", gone. 

 
 
 
lady in black
6.1.13  lady in black  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.12    2 months ago

I know, I'm down quite a bit of money both in the market and my 401(k).

Still trying to buy stocks

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.14  MUVA  replied to  lib50 @6.1.4    2 months ago

Speak for yourself.

 
 
 
devangelical
6.1.15  devangelical  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.12    2 months ago

trump must have gotten tired of winning

 
 
 
MUVA
6.1.16  MUVA  replied to  devangelical @6.1.15    2 months ago

Wouldn't it be nice to win once.

 
 
 
devangelical
6.1.17  devangelical  replied to  MUVA @6.1.16    2 months ago
Wouldn't it be nice to win once.

ask trumpski that in less than 8 months

 
 
 
lib50
6.1.18  lib50  replied to  MUVA @6.1.14    2 months ago

I'm not speaking for myself, I'm lucky.  I'm speaking for Americans I know and love and those I don't.  I pay attention to things that are outside my orbit too. 

 
 
 
CB
6.1.19  CB   replied to  lady in black @6.1.2    2 months ago

Did you see what Greg did? He spun it on you. Trump is the conservative champion! They hired Trump over any better republican fitted to the job for the purposes of kicking liberals in their political teeth! Now they it appears to have backfired, they are wanting to the stage to fade to black and when the lights come back up they're a 'partner' to all!

We will take the proper exchange of help for the masses, and at the same time, see the political snakes forking it over!!!

 
 
 
Ender
7  Ender    2 months ago

So they are estimating this next phase will cost 1T. Yes that is trillion.

The debt by the government is 23 trillion, I guess one more wont hurt....

 
 
 
Nerm_L
8  Nerm_L    2 months ago

Well, allowing the travel, tourism, and entertainment sectors to collapse would be a giant step toward mitigating climate change.  The COP21 targets could easily be met by eliminating travel, tourism, and entertainment.  And, as a bonus, the trends toward globalization would be reversed, too.  Reversing globalization would provide some protection against future pandemics.

Of course, to obtain those benefits it would be necessary to revitalize industrial capitalism and begin building domestic factories and creating jobs.  That would require allowing the stock market to strangle itself so that capital could be invested in capital projects rather than worthless paper.

But those things won't happen.  The House Democrats extolled the virtues of extended unemployment benefits which sent a signal for businesses to begin massive layoffs now.  Democrats extolled the virtues of expanded child care which seems contrary to the demands for social distancing.  Democrats have opposed a payroll tax holiday which helps, a little, to maintain payrolls and jobs.  Democrats are promising free testing, free medical treatment, free internet, free lunches, and are doing little to protect jobs.  Democrats are only seeking political revenge for how badly the 2008 financial crisis was handled.

Now that Democrats have an opportunity to provide the country with more free time, people have no where to go.  So, let's blame Trump. 

What we are experiencing is the SARS pandemic that WHO and medical experts have been crapping their pants about for the last 15-16 years.  We are witnessing 15 years of preparation by WHO and the international medical community.  SARS is Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome caused by coronavirus.  The press would rather blame Trump than ask why the international medical community failed to prepare us for the hair-on-fire scenario they've used to obtain funding over the last 15 years.

Right now everyone is bailing out the international medical community.  That's the bailout we should be talking about.  But let's not.  Let's blame Trump and sweep the last 15 years under the rug.  An ignorant public doesn't need to know the truth, after all.

 
 
 
Ender
8.1  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @8    2 months ago

So you are going to blame layoffs on unemployment insurance? That is a stretch.

Pointing the finger at the help people receive after being laid off...

And yes I oppose a payroll tax holiday as it will not help if people are not getting a paycheck. It would also take money out of SS and Medicare when those programs would need the money the most.

People blame donald for his ineptness. Denying there is a problem until he could not deny it anymore.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
8.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Ender @8.1    2 months ago

But you can't even describe what he did that was inept. He never denied the problem, he just pointed out the overreaction and hysteria to it that the media started and which is still going on.

 
 
 
Ender
8.1.2  Ender  replied to  Greg Jones @8.1.1    2 months ago

Why should I? As I have seen, some think donald can do no wrong.

It is always everyone else at fault doncha know....

 
 
 
Nerm_L
8.1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  Ender @8.1    2 months ago
So you are going to blame layoffs on unemployment insurance? That is a stretch.

It's a signal that Congress is going to support unemployment rather than employment.  Congress could have chose to provide funds to assist businesses make payroll and keep people's jobs.  But that wasn't what Congress chose.  Congress deliberately chose to provide monetary assistance for those who lose jobs rather than those who keep jobs.

Congress is telling businesses to engage in massive layoffs and the public will provide income for those who don't have jobs.  That's not a very good way to protect the economy.

And yes I oppose a payroll tax holiday as it will not help if people are not getting a paycheck. It would also take money out of SS and Medicare when those programs would need the money the most.

A payroll tax holiday provides a small amount of assistance to maintain payrolls and protect jobs.  The mechanism is already in place; it's fast and doesn't require bureaucracy.  Why is Congress so concerned about putting public funds into Social Security?  Congress is going to have to do that at some future date, anyway.

Why are Democrats so opposed to payrolls?  Extended unemployment isn't going to be cheaper than transferring public money into Social Security.  

People blame donald for his ineptness. Denying there is a problem until he could not deny it anymore.

Politicians blame scapegoats to divert attention away from their own self-serving stupidity.  Who is President doesn't matter as long as politicians can scapegoat the President.  Congress will be blaming Joe Biden, too, if he wins the election.  Changing the President won't change the politics.

 
 
 
Ender
8.1.4  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.3    2 months ago

Unemployment insurance was created in 1935. In all of that time and years of use it was never any signal for companies to lay off people. Imo that is just being used as a scapegoat.

As far as a payroll tax, do you really think that having an extra 7 dollars in a paycheck a week would make that much of a difference? It is a knee jerk reaction that will deprive the government of income at a time they would be paying out massive amounts.

People are being told to stay home. Some companies are continuing to pay people and some will not.

Instead of all these ideas and throwing things against the wall what needs to be done is what other countries have and is being overlooked, having mandatory paid medical leave.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
8.1.5  Nerm_L  replied to  Ender @8.1.4    2 months ago
As far as a payroll tax, do you really think that having an extra 7 dollars in a paycheck a week would make that much of a difference? It is a knee jerk reaction that will deprive the government of income at a time they would be paying out massive amounts.

Well, an additional $7 a paycheck would mean the normal paycheck is $100 a week.  For a business with 10 employees that translates to $140 a week that isn't needed to make payroll.  That allows more flexibility to keep 10 employees rather than laying off one or two to make payroll.  In this example, a payroll tax holiday can protect one or, possibly, two jobs and avoid a 10-20 pct layoff.  

An extra $7 in the paycheck won't stimulate the economy.  The purpose is to protect jobs; not to stimulate consumption.  Social distancing has created physical barriers to consumption that aren't caused by loss of paychecks.  Stimulating consumption cannot overcome those physical barriers.  What is needed now are efforts to protect jobs which requires helping businesses make payroll.

A payroll tax holiday doesn't even need to pass the money on to workers.  The point is to protect the $100 paychecks.  Putting extra money into workers pockets won't accomplish anything because they are prevented from consuming more, anyway.

The payroll tax holiday is a means for the government to support paychecks by assuming 15 pct of the cost of payroll.  Yes, the international rat bastards will game that for profit.  The global rat bastards are going to profit from extended unemployment benefits, too.  But a payroll tax holiday could make a big difference for small businesses.

 
 
 
Ender
8.1.6  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.5    2 months ago

Imo we are in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

Most of our economy is service oriented. With a payroll tax cut, saving one job will be the least of a small business problem. They rely on consumers. Basically their lifeline will be blocked. So it doesn't really matter about that 140 a week if no customers are walking in the door.

I think any stimulus should be targeted but we all know how government works. It could end up being like the farm bailouts where a majority of the funds went to farm conglomerates.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
8.1.7  Nerm_L  replied to  Ender @8.1.6    2 months ago
Most of our economy is service oriented. With a payroll tax cut, saving one job will be the least of a small business problem. They rely on consumers. Basically their lifeline will be blocked. So it doesn't really matter about that 140 a week if no customers are walking in the door.

Yes, that states the obvious.  But the pandemic has locked the doors.  Stimulating consumption won't unlock those doors.  The pandemic has transformed the consumer economy into a subsistence economy.

The question is how to restart the consumer economy once the pandemic diminishes and allows lifting the restrictions for social distancing.  Allowing small businesses to go bankrupt creates another physical barrier that impedes restarting the consumer economy.

What we are experiencing are war time conditions.  What is happening isn't that different than a breakdown caused by nuclear war.  Consumers are physically prevented from spending money.  Giving consumers more spending money won't accomplish anything.

I think any stimulus should be targeted but we all know how government works. It could end up being like the farm bailouts where a majority of the funds went to farm conglomerates.

Government spending should be focused on protecting the economy.  That means protecting businesses, jobs, and incomes.  Instead of measures to address job loss, government should be taking measures to restart the economy after the pandemic diminishes.

The pandemic has thrown supply-side monetary policy out the window.  The status quo doesn't have any way of dealing with current conditions.  This isn't an economic downturn.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
9  It Is ME    2 months ago

Apparently ….. David Rothkopf….. hasn't been paying attention ….to …… ANYTHING ! jrSmiley_103_smiley_image.jpg

Trump = wanting a payroll Tax Holiday for workers. ( Congress turned down right now)

Trump = $ 1,000.00 of direct payment to "American Citizens"  ( Congress hasn't given the go-ahead Yet)

Trump = Utility Companies, Internet Companies, Mortgage Holders, etc....suspending Cutoff's and Penalties for none payment.

TRUMP = Relief to ALL "Small Businesses" ( Congress hasn't Okayed anything yet)

Where has "DAVID" been these last few weeks ?

The Galapagos ? jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
loki12
10  loki12    2 months ago

Just curious, how many of you “Not my President” people  are going to tear up those checks when they come in? Wouldn’t it be hypocritical to cash them?

 
 
 
user image
10.1    replied to  loki12 @10    2 months ago
Just curious, how many of you “Not my President” people  are going to tear up those checks

None, they'll say Democrats had to drag Trump crying and screaming to get him to sign the bill and complain it's just crumbs

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @10.1.1    2 months ago

Which has diddly-squat to do with his post.

Shocking.

/s

 
 
 
JohnRussell
10.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.3    2 months ago
Trump Says Coronavirus ‘Snuck Up on Us’ ONE DAY After Saying He ‘Always’ Thought It Was a Pandemic

Doesnt it bother you that your president is so erratic? 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
10.1.5  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.3    2 months ago

What is truly telling is the fact that our friends here seem to tie the two together. The virus did indeed catch EVERYONE by surprise and the fact that Mr.Trump said early on that it was a pandemic. The two are a fact weeks apart.

 
 
 
user image
10.1.6    replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @10.1.5    2 months ago
What is truly telling is the fact that our friends here seem to tie the two together. The virus did indeed catch EVERYONE by surprise and the fact that Mr.Trump said early on that it was a pandemic. The two are a fact weeks apart.

 People with TDS like distorting Trump's words, it gives them the same pleasure sex does.

 
 
 
user image
10.1.7    replied to  JohnRussell @10.1.4    2 months ago
Doesnt it bother you that your president is so erratic?

What do you mean by saying "Your President" I always thought you were an American or are you an AINO? (American In Name Only) Are you an illegal invader?

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @10.1.4    2 months ago
Doesnt it bother you that your president is so erratic? 

Not nearly as much as the constant stream of hate-laden posts and off topic bullshit does.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
10.1.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @10.1.8    2 months ago

There will be an unknown number of Americans that will die because Trump underplayed the severity of the issue for so many weeks and we lost time in getting to the point of taking it seriously. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
10.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @10.1.9    2 months ago
There will be an unknown number of Americans that will die because Trump underplayed the severity of the issue for so many weeks and we lost time in getting to the point of taking it seriously. 

As always, you are free to state whatever pops into your head.

No matter how wrong.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
10.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  loki12 @10    2 months ago

Just curious, how many of you “Not my President” people  are going to tear up those checks when they come in? Wouldn’t it be hypocritical to cash them?

What, WE can't cash the checks that come from taxes, thus making it  

OUR OWN DAMN MONEY ?

WTF , 

your post makes so much cents !

 
 
 
Tacos!
11  Tacos!    2 months ago
Trump Wants To Bail Out Airlines And Cruise Ships.

He does? We just had a seed here the other day where he said he wasn't interested in talking about that - that they hadn't asked for it and we shouldn't give them any ideas.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
12  seeder  JohnRussell    2 months ago
GettyImages-1059821018-1200x627.jpghttps://am13.mediaite.com/med/cnt/uploads/2019/07/GettyImages-1059821018-300x157.jpg 300w, https://am13.mediaite.com/med/cnt/uploads/2019/07/GettyImages-1059821018-768x401.jpg 768w" sizes="(max-width: 1200px) 100vw, 1200px" >

LUDOVIC MARIN/AFP

President   Donald Trump   announced via Twitter early Wednesday morning that government assistance would be coming to American citizens hurt by the severe economic downturn caused by the effects of the coronavirus pandemic.

The White House Coronavirus Coordination team announced guidelines of social distancing that strongly discouraged going to food courts, bars, and restaurants which is a very smart public health policy but has understandably hurt many small businesses.

Working with the Trump administration, Congress is looking to pass a $1 trillion bailout package to a number of industries hurt by the coronavirus, possibly including airline, cruise, and casino industries, though its not clear how the cruise and casino industries are essential (though they certainly employ millions of Americans now out of work.

Recent ports suggest that part of the bailout could include individual paychecks of $1,000 to each American, which Trump appeared to reference in his tweet.

For the people that are now out of work because of the important and necessary containment policies, for instance the shutting down of hotels, bars and restaurants, money will soon be coming to you. The onslaught of the Chinese Virus is not your fault! Will be stronger than ever! — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)   March 18, 2020

While many Americans will surely welcome the federal economic support, there is some irony in the fact that just months ago President Trump was deriding the socialist policies of Vermont Senator   Bernie Sanders , when just a few weeks later, he is overseeing and encouraging the very socialist policy of spreading wealth to those in need.

“There are no atheists in the foxhole” should perhaps be updated to “there are no free marketers in an economic disaster.”

 
 
 
JohnRussell
12.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @12    2 months ago
“There are no atheists in the foxhole” should perhaps be updated to “there are no free marketers in an economic disaster.”

 
 
 
The People's Fish, Still "Hand Of The Queen"
13  The People's Fish, Still "Hand Of The Queen"    2 months ago

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