The Pandemic Has Become One More Issue for Americans To Fight Over - Reason.com

  
Via:  steve-ott  •  4 weeks ago  •  70 comments

By:   JD-Tuccille (Reason. com)

The Pandemic Has Become One More Issue for Americans To Fight Over - Reason.com
Americans will survive the virus, but American political life is sicker than ever.

In a deeply divided nation, Democrats and Republicans don’t just disagree, they hate each other.”


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Americans will survive the virus, but American political life is sicker than ever.


J.D. Tuccille| 4.29.2020 11:15 AM

Media Contact & Reprint Requests (Cory Clark/ZUMA Press/Newscom)

Difficult circumstances are said to bring people together. But, if anything, COVID-19 has widened political and cultural fracture lines in the U.S., giving us more to fight over and less reason to trust each other in times to come.

In an election year dominated by two worn-out, mutually loathing legacy political parties, there's no reason to think any of these tensions will be resolved by the outcome of the vote.

Sorted by culture, lifestyle, and political affiliation into two dominant tribes—"red" Republicans and "blue" Democrats—most Americans have declining contact with those outside their own camp, less in common with those who live differently, and slumping opinions of one another to match. Urban and suburban blues disdain those who don't share their values, politics, and way of life, and rural and exurban reds return the sentiment.

Last year, U.S. News & World Reportpointed out that "Democrats and Republicans don't just disagree, they hate each other." Sad to say, the polling bears that out.

As of last fall, 80 percent of Democrats described the Republican Party as controlled by racists, according to Public Religion Research Institute polling. A similar percentage of Republicans see the Democratic Party as controlled by socialists.

Half of surveyed Democrats and Republicans alike consider each other "ignorant" and "spiteful" Axiosfound. More strongly, 21 percent of Democrats said Republicans were "evil," and 23 percent of Republicans said the same about Democrats.

Worse, 18 percent of Democrats and 13 percent of Republicans said that "violence would be justified" if the opposing party wins the 2020 presidential election, according to Nathan P. Kalmoe and Lilliana Mason, political scientists at Louisiana State University and the University of Maryland. But the prospect of themselves winning the election actually increased support for violence. And that's before Americans started arguing over the seriousness of COVID-19 and the proper way to handle the pandemic.

Now, we know the disease is just one more thing for us to argue about.

A working paper by economists from Stanford, Harvard, and New York University finds "substantial gaps between Republicans and Democrats in beliefs about the severity of COVID-19 and the importance of social distancing." Specifically, "Democrats were consistently more concerned than Republicans about the spread of coronavirus." The authors link the difference of opinion to the concentration of Democrats in densely populated urban areas, while Republicans tend to live in more lightly settled communities. That squares with other polling finding an urban/rural divide in experiences of the pandemic.

Democrats and Republicans also disagree over whether the worst is over, and over the wisdom of restrictive lockdown orders. Kaiser Family Foundation finds that "four in ten Republicans (38%) say such orders do more harm than good," compared to five percent of Democrats.

So it's no surprise that the resulting protests against stay-at-home orders around the country have become yet another partisan flashpoint setting Team Red against Team Blue. Participants who want to return to something resembling normal life, including making a living, are tagged as "covidiots," while their opponents who prefer extended mandatory social-distancing efforts to battle contagion are charged with "pandemic panic."

"Controversy over lockdowns has drawn people on both sides to demonize one another," writes Arnold Kling, who in 2017 authored The Three Languages of Politics: Talking Across the Political Divides. "In Demonization Mode, we divide the world into people trying to do good and people trying to do evil, and we characterize those with whom we disagree as trying to do evil."

And the thing about evil people is that you really don't want to be under their control. Losing an election to somebody you disagree with on a few issues is disappointing. Being defeated by evil, though, is a threat to your very existence.

Politicians, being the creatures they are, have done their best to fulfill all of the fears of their enemies.

President Donald Trump, by his own admission, advised Vice President Mike Pence to ignore calls for help from Democratic governors who criticize administration pandemic efforts.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo threatened to steal ventilators from hospitals located in upstate counties where voters tend to oppose him and deliver them to New York City and its suburbs, where his supporters are concentrated.

Come November, in elections across the U.S., the partisans of one side or the other will lose to opponents they increasingly see as evil, ignorant, and spiteful. They will have to concede power to people they consider wrong on every important issue, including the response to COVID-19. And they will contemplate the prospect of continuing to be governed by people they know return the contempt, and who they've recently watched abuse position and authority to punish enemies and reward friends. Forget coming together—Americans will be more resentful of each other than ever.

To give those who say disaster brings us together their due, that may be true for discrete events.

"It may be that 'acute' stress, i.e. a one-time stressful experience may lead to social bonding, as shown in the study, but that 'chronic' stress, i.e. repeated exposure to stress over a long period, might wear us out," wrote Emma Seppala of Stanford University's Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education in Scientific American.

America's division into hostile factions isn't a recent occurrence; the fractures have been deepening and the disagreements growing more bitter for years. This year, instead of being a one-off crisis, the pandemic became a continuation of an ongoing conflict. That's as "chronic" as it gets, and there's nothing to suggest that the stress is going away anytime soon.

The United States, write Thomas Carothers and Andrew O'Donohue for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, is one of several politically divided countries where "the pandemic has amplified the already dangerous effects of polarization, with serious ramifications for public health, democratic governance, and social cohesion."

Americans will survive and overcome the pandemic, as they have so many other challenges in the past. Whether they can continue to put up with each other isn't so certain.


Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
[]
 
Steve Ott
1  seeder  Steve Ott    4 weeks ago

Democrats, Republicans and the New Politics of Hate

Nearly half the country (48%) thinks the Republican Party has been taken over by racists, a view held by 80% of Democrats. And the Democratic Party? Nationally, 44% think it's been taken over by socialists – and 82% of Republicans share that opinion, according to the extensive study, "Fractured Nation: Widening Partisan Polarization and Key Issues in 2020 Presidential Elections."”

Neither party seems to have the ability to articulate its stand and beliefs, much less philosophy, but the other party always condemns them for being inarticulate and having no philosophy. Both parties do agree on one thing though, power is good in our hands .

The right likes to talk about the 'real america' or 'true america'. But what is that? The best I can tell, it is rural, white and christian. Now there are those who accuse me of being from the left. Now here is the problem with that. I come from the Eastern New Mexico, Texas panhandle rural area, and I am white.

I'm only missing one piece, but not all my life. So apparently I'm from real America, but I'm not a real American. Who knew?

Now the left, they like to talk about all Americans, except those who don't agree with them. They are still overwhelmingly white, old and elite. But given the problems with the democrats, they still represent the best available option for those who are not 'real americans'.

Or are they?

I haven't voted for a d or r in 35+ years now. I'd rather vote for my dog. I don't necessarily dislike the individuals in those clubs, I just don't like what their clubs stand for. Even when I acknowledge that I have shared some views from either side, I still can't get an acknowledgement from them that there has been agreement. The reply always has to start with some kind of denial

of some kind of perceived threat or disagreement.

I am reminded of the Alamo. Both sides saw themselves at a crossroads. Both side asked nor gave quarter. Neither side bothered to negociate. They both were right. And the side that won lost more than the side that lost.

The side that won lost because its vision became quickly overwhelmd by what the losing side wanted.

And who lost the most? The people themselves who thought they had won.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Steve Ott @1    4 weeks ago

Both sides  -ism will get Trump re-elected, because it is the only way he can be "normalized.  He knows he is a pos, and his campaign strategy is to try and tear Biden down to his level.

It should go without saying that now is not the time for both sides-ism, but we see it here , and everywhere else, every day. 

 
 
 
Steve Ott
1.1.1  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1    3 weeks ago

You cannot dismiss it so easily as that. Here is a natural disaster that presumably "American exceptionalism" would shine and people would come together to work for the common good. But no, it has to be politicized. It isn't an ism, it is, as stated in the article:

"In an election year dominated by two worn-out, mutually loathing legacy political parties, there's no reason to think any of these tensions will be resolved by the outcome of the vote."

Neither party gives a damn about saving the country save to hold the power. That is what the parties want and that is seemingly what their constituents want.

So what do you want to do John? Do you want to have some kind of idea sharing? Do you want to convince people of the pureness of your vision? You don't do that by slinging mud at the other side continuously. You do that by finding some kind of common ground to have a discussion and work out from there.

I comment mostly on the conservative posts because I find them more interesting. 90% of the time, I disagree with what is posted. But there is a small percentage of posts where I do agree. And they have noticed, and we have had some quite fruitful discussions.

What I am really trying to point out, is that in a time when we really should be working together, neither side wants to do so and thereby show that those two parties should no longer be in power.

So, yeah, you know what? Let's go ahead and call an ism. Sure, why not. Because you know what. Both parties are POS as far as I am concerned. So there we are John. Convince me that I would be better off with a D in office.

 
 
 
lib50
1.1.2  lib50  replied to  Steve Ott @1.1.1    3 weeks ago

I'm surprised you don't see Trump encouraging armed protesters, who are directly linked to his supporters and campaign donators.  He lies about this disaster from the beginning and his entire reason is politically motivated, because that is how he is, he does not care about coming together, he divides at all times.  The usual politics is one thing, Trump is not even trying to lead the country together, he is even pitting states against each other (costing the entire country even more, by the way) and he is advocating against the very guidelines his own experts put out. Its insulting to pretend everything is equal, just have some damn standards for this supposed 'leader'.  He is still screwing everything up and not facing what his own experts are telling him.  Enough of this incompetence and the daily lies and gaslighting of the past.  Lead.  Tell the truth and take responsibility for past mistakes and fix them instead of continuing to LIE about it. 

 
 
 
Steve Ott
1.1.3  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  lib50 @1.1.2    3 weeks ago
Trump is not even trying to lead the country together,

And why are you relying on him to 'bring the country together'?

I simply do not understand this focus on it being the presidents job to bring the nation together? Do you really believe that some old white dude in DC is going to be able to bring together the people of blacks and mexicans of south Dallas? Hell no. This singular focus on the presidency is what has gutted the ability of the federal government to do anything. It didn't start with Trump, you have to go back to Wilson.

This always looking to the federal government has got to stop. This fetishism of the presidency has got to stop.

Bringing people together happens the same way the virus spreads. One person at at time. Take the time to get to know your neighbors. Bring your neighbors together. Then they will bring people from other neighborhoods into the fold and pretty soon you'll have a whole city brought together. That is where real life takes place. Then that city can begin to involve other cities and pretty soon you have a large network. Pretty soon you have a lot of connected places.

You don't get that kind of connection from the top down. It only works from the bottom up.

By the way, like the avatar.Looks like something my brother would have drawn in '68

 
 
 
MUVA
1.1.4  MUVA  replied to  Steve Ott @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

Old white dude what are you saying exactly white men can't be involved in a solution?The federal government is for the most part complete shit aside from the military look at the lack of planning and coordination this didn't start with Trump my confused friend. 

 
 
 
Steve Ott
1.1.5  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  MUVA @1.1.4    3 weeks ago
this didn't start with Trump my confused friend.

I'm not really confused, at least not yet. I have high blood pressure, but not dementia.

I have consistently stated, here on NT and elsewhere, this really started with FDR if not Wilson. Whites can be a part of the solution, just not to the exclusion of everyone else. And I'm not really sure where you got the idea I said or thought that. If you can point that out to me, I'll be sure not to make that mistake again.

 
 
 
dennis smith
1.1.6  dennis smith  replied to  Steve Ott @1.1.1    3 weeks ago

You are spot on Steve. Our political system broke down several years if not decades ago. Both parties twist, spin, deflect, fail to compromise on almost every thing.

I believe in our form of government but we need changes in the type, number of parties and those we  vote to represent us.

Unfortunately neither party is willing to change their ways so it is up to the voters to make changes. If we chose not do it at the ballot box change will come in another way.

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.1.7  Split Personality  replied to  dennis smith @1.1.6    3 weeks ago

Sanity and compromise left the building on January 3, 1987 when Tip O'Neil retired.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  Steve Ott @1.1.3    3 weeks ago

We don't look to this 'president' to do shit other than to line his pockets along with his administration of gangsters, thugs, grifters, and thieves (of which he is also)

This 'president' cares about no one but himself.

 
 
 
Heartland American
2  Heartland American    4 weeks ago

An interesting article.  I don’t things are as bad as it says but we could be heading in that direction.  It is worth reading and thinking about.  

 
 
 
Steve Ott
2.1  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  Heartland American @2    3 weeks ago

If sometimes feels it is that bad, but I can't prove it by actual interactions I've had.

I understand that people want to go back to work, and I do feel that some restrictions were unnecessary. I mean restaurants could have stayed open. Sure there would be fewer people at a time in there, but they still could have done it. I trust people a lot more than I do government, whether red or blue. The people actually have a lot more common sense, <I really hate using that term but sometimes it is the only one that applies> than government. I work in litigation support, and we are essentially web based. So I have been one of the lucky ones who has been able to work from home for the last seven weeks. Many have not been so fortunate and I feel for them. I understand their desire to be allowed to work. But I don't think that standing over your legislators with guns is a good way to get that message across.

 
 
 
MUVA
2.1.1  MUVA  replied to  Steve Ott @2.1    3 weeks ago

If someone is sitting home for months then maybe they should look into new work their job isn't needed.

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.2  bugsy  replied to  MUVA @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

Sorry, MUVA, but I have to disagree with this one.

I work PRN, or an as needed basis, in a large rehab center. Because Florida stopped elective surgeries early in March, all the rehab centers in Florida had a major decrease in their patient counts. Before early March, I was working about 25 to 30 hours a week. One week after the surgery stoppage, my hours went to zero and has stayed there since.

The place where I work is a 120 bed facility, and 6 weeks ago, the number of patients went into the 50s. I understand the full time therapists were working as nurse assistants and helping with maintenance just to get some hours. Others had to use their PTO.

Elective surgeries will start back up tomorrow, but it will probably take a couple more weeks before facilities start getting the population they need to have everybody work.

I know you probably did not mean it the way you said, but there are many people out there that are out for a couple of months with no cause of their own.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  bugsy @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

Yeah it didn’t come off right did it because I think about the people that we had on our staff 100+ that are sitting at home because our properties are closed they can’t go to work.

 
 
 
Steve Ott
2.1.4  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  MUVA @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

Can you provide a list of industries that are non-essential?

 
 
 
MUVA
2.1.5  MUVA  replied to  Steve Ott @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

I know it isn't mine I have worked 30 straight days.

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.6  Dulay  replied to  Steve Ott @2.1    3 weeks ago
I trust people a lot more than I do government, whether red or blue.

Unfortunately, two examples in the last couple of days should put t dent in you trust in people.

The first one is the fact that 8000 people violated the social distancing mandate on the beach in Florida. Over 7000 were given citations. 

The second is a security guard in Flint, MI was assassinated merely because he refused to allow a girl into Family Dollar without a mask. 

I'm sure that there are hundreds more. I myself have been to Menard's [plumbing parts] and heard the grumblings of customers because they are required to wear masks. Despite glaringly obvious signage displayed outside stating the requirement for masks, customers were still bitching and whining to security and employees. 

People are just going to have to stifle their perceived privilege and grow the fuck up. If they insist on being jerks, they should just stay home and shop online. The rest of us have shit to do and they're just making a hard thing harder. 

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.7  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @2.1.5    3 weeks ago

Aren't you a self employed business owner? Am I misremembering that? 

Pretty fucking easy to say for someone in complete control of his own work schedule. 

Can't help but wonder if you ever go to a restaurant or a movie or a casino or a concert or a festival, you know, all those 'non-essential' things that the rest of us enjoy doing outside of our work life? Your lack of respect for all of those that own and work at those venues and your lack of empathy for them being in a position not of their own making is a sadly elitist attitude. 

 
 
 
MUVA
2.1.8  MUVA  replied to  Dulay @2.1.7    3 weeks ago

It isn’t just easy it is liberating.I’m working while my three employees stay home and get paid  which is about to come to a end.

 
 
 
MUVA
2.1.9  MUVA  replied to  Dulay @2.1.7    3 weeks ago

You need to read my comments on this closely I’m not saying anyone is non essential I saying people should all go back to work because on my area no is staying home anyway.

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.10  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @2.1.9    3 weeks ago
You need to read my comments on this closely I’m not saying anyone is non essential I saying people should all go back to work because on my area no is staying home anyway.

If that's what you meant to say when you posted:

If someone is sitting home for months then maybe they should look into new work their job isn't needed.

your delivery needs work...

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.11  Dulay  replied to  MUVA @2.1.8    3 weeks ago
It isn’t just easy it is liberating.

Whoosh right over your head. 

 
 
 
JBB
2.1.12  JBB  replied to  Dulay @2.1.11    3 weeks ago

Cavalier attitudes, [deleted] are why infection and death rates are going up in previously barely affected areas of the country. Also why the real death toll this year will surely exceed 200,000...

 
 
 
JaneDoe
2.1.13  JaneDoe  replied to  Dulay @2.1.6    3 weeks ago
The first one is the fact that 8000 people violated the social distancing mandate on the beach in Florida. Over 7000 were given citations. 

Wow, that is a shocking number. I would like to read a little more about it. Can you provide a link? I can’t seem to find any news articles about it. Thanks

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.14  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @2.1.12    3 weeks ago
Also why the real death toll this year will surely exceed 200,000...

You CAN provide a viable source for that number can't you jbb?   Just a note before hand, your imagination and hope is not a viable source of information.  So, come on back with a viable link and support the lunacy with facts.

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.15  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @2.1.6    3 weeks ago
Over 7000 were given citations. 

I would sure like to see proof of this nonsense.

The only "citations" being given are verbal.

Don't you live in Indiana? Why do you give a shit about other states? Maybe you should get your own in order first.

"The second is a security guard in Flint, MI was assassinated merely because he refused to allow a girl into Family Dollar without a mask"

Not entirely true..

It was an older man who wiped his shirt on a female employee's shirt and it was Dollar Tree, not Family Dollar.. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.16  Split Personality  replied to  bugsy @2.1.15    3 weeks ago

At least we can all first agree to Dollar Tree and then work our way to the details from there.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.17  Split Personality  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.14    3 weeks ago

Can you remember the last two pandemics that took over 100,000 American lives during our younger

years and who the Presidents were?

The virus/flu isn't even on their Wikipedia pages despite the losses.

 
 
 
KDMichigan
2.1.19  KDMichigan  replied to  Dulay @2.1.6    3 weeks ago
The second is a security guard in Flint, MI was assassinated merely because he refused to allow a girl into Family Dollar without a mask. 

It wasn't a girl. And the crime doesn't surprise being committed in the Flint area.

256

I'm sure the suspects were just minding their own business.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.20  Split Personality  replied to  KDMichigan @2.1.19    3 weeks ago
It wasn't a girl.

It was a girl.  A mother and daughter attempted to enter and the daughter not only had no mask but verbally accosted Munerlyn and spit at him.  Both women left.

The mother came back with the two men.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/calvin-munerlyn-michigan-security-guard-shot-dead-family-dollar-face-mask/

 
 
 
KDMichigan
2.1.21  KDMichigan  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.20    3 weeks ago

Try reading your own source, The altercation was between the mother and the security guard after he told her, her daughter had to wear a mask.

In a news release, Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton said Sharmel Teague "began yelling at Munerlyn and spit at him and Munerlyn told her to leave the store and instructed a cashier not to serve her." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/calvin-munerlyn-michigan-security-guard-shot-dead-family-dollar-face-mask/

Sharmel left and returned with her Husband and son 20 minutes later and her son supposedly shot the guy in the back of the head. 

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.22  Dulay  replied to  JaneDoe @2.1.13    3 weeks ago

There are pages and pages of articles online about it. 

The Miami Beach Police Department announced Monday that the park was closed until further notice after they issued 7,329 verbal face cover warnings and more than 470 warnings for failing to social distance between Friday and Sunday. Most of the violations were at South Pointe Park, according to MBPD.

https://atlanticbusinesssystems.com/2020/05/05/miami-beach-closes-park-just-five-days-after-reopening-as-nearly-8000-break-face-mask-and-distance-rules/

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.23  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @2.1.15    3 weeks ago
Don't you live in Indiana?

Yes. 

Why do you give a shit about other states?

I'm a citizen of the United States of America. I have friends and family in IN, NY, FL. CA, AZ, MI, IL, WI, OH, PA, NC, MN, AL, and HI. 

Maybe you should get your own in order first.

Based on the clusterfuck that MI is experiencing right now, you should take your own advice. 

 
 
 
JaneDoe
2.1.24  JaneDoe  replied to  Dulay @2.1.22    3 weeks ago

Thanks for the link.

I see why I wasn’t getting any results. I searched for over 7000 citations given on reopened Florida beach. I based that search on this comment.

The first one is the fact that 8000 people violated the social distancing mandate on the beach in Florida. Over 7000 were given citations. 

If I would have only known you meant over 7000 verbal warnings given at a reopened Parks in Miami I would have conducted my search accordingly and all those pages and pages of articles would have popped up for me too. 

Have a good day.

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.25  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @2.1.23    3 weeks ago
Based on the clusterfuck that MI is experiencing right now, you should take your own advice. 

I don't live in Michigan nor do I know anyone that does.

Your attempt at insulting failed....again.

 

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.26  bugsy  replied to  JaneDoe @2.1.24    3 weeks ago
If I would have only known you meant over 7000 verbal warnings given at a reopened Parks in Miami I would have conducted my search accordingly and all those pages and pages of articles would have popped up for me too. 

Some people try to make it look like doom and gloom in areas they have zero knowledge of.....or live a thousand miles away.

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.27  Split Personality  replied to  Dulay @2.1.23    3 weeks ago

Your confusing a FL resident with someone else.

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.28  Dulay  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.27    3 weeks ago

Oh my bad. Yet FL has it's owe clusterfuck going on so there's that...

 
 
 
Split Personality
2.1.29  Split Personality  replied to  KDMichigan @2.1.21    3 weeks ago

I did read it.  I apologize if my second sentence was not precise enough for you.

I think we are in agreement then.

Dulay was correct, it was a girl at the center of the original incident, the mother behaved badly.

The rest is obvious except your contention that the son "supposedly" shot Munerlyn.

There is nothing "supposedly" about it.

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.30  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @2.1.28    3 weeks ago
Yet FL has it's owe clusterfuck going on so there's that...

Like?

 
 
 
bugsy
2.1.31  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @2.1.28    3 weeks ago

I did a quick little google search and found that Indiana has about one fourth the population of Florida, but it seems their COVID cases are mote than half Florida cases, and the deaths are a couple hundred difference.

In Indiana, you have a .0036 chance of getting COVID, with a .057 chance of death, whereas Florida...

.001 chance of getting COVID and .04 death rate.

Who has the clusterfuck going on?

 
 
 
Dulay
2.1.32  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @2.1.30    3 weeks ago
Like?

Like the current Governor blaming the former Governor for how fucked up Florida's unemployment system is. 

Opening beaches and because of morons, closing beaches. 

FL residents boasting about the low number of confirmed cases vs. other smaller states while ignoring the fact that smaller states have tested almost as many people as Florida has. 

 
 
 
Kavika
3  Kavika     4 weeks ago
Worse, 18 percent of Democrats and 13 percent of Republicans said that "violence would be justified"

That is a sad statistic. IMO it shows that the fringe nuts cases seem to have control of the parties. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Kavika @3    4 weeks ago
Worse, 18 percent of Democrats and 13 percent of Republicans said that "violence would be justified" if the opposing party wins the 2020 presidential election

Why do you think that is? 

This country is in serious denial.  Talking about "both sides" being at fault ONLY helps Trump. Why that is not obvious to people is beyond me. 

 
 
 
Steve Ott
3.1.1  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    3 weeks ago
Talking about "both sides" being at fault

Because it is the truth.Now believe me, I've had my Alice in Wonderland moments with the help of some windowpane, but the truth is still better. And if your only objective is to beat Trump without offering some better vision, well....there we are.

And when you say the 'this country is in serious denial' does that not include both sides? It seems you want to have your cake and eat it too.

 
 
 
dennis smith
3.1.2  dennis smith  replied to  Steve Ott @3.1.1    3 weeks ago

"And when you say the 'this country is in serious denial' does that not include both sides?"

That type of partisan comment has been used by John many times.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @3    4 weeks ago

Violence over politics is never justified unless some one or somebodies are trying to overthrow our system of government for a dictatorship whether that dictatorship be far left wing or far right wing

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
3.2.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.2    4 weeks ago

I’m glad George Washington didn’t feel that way. I see nothing to indicate he wanted a dictatorship.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.2.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.2.1    4 weeks ago

Me, neither, but George Washington was fighting against an imperialist tyranny aka dictatorship like we see today. Sure, King George had a parliament but they were just as tyrannous as he was.

I'm not saying violence is never justified and if you had read my comment you would have comprehended that.

 
 
 
Dulay
3.2.3  Dulay  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.2.1    4 weeks ago
I’m glad George Washington didn’t feel that way.

It would behoove you to review the Whiskey Rebellion. President George Washington sure as hell DID feel that way. 

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
3.2.4  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.2    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

[comment spamming with sweeping generalizations]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.2.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @3.2.4    3 weeks ago

what does that have to do with what we're talking about? And if you will bother to read my comment at 3.2.2 you'll see that sometimes violence is justified

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.2.5    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_44_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_25_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
3.2.7  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @3.2.4    3 weeks ago

moderating stuff from 4 days ago?

why not go through my comment history yrs back and have some real fun?

 
 
 
Steve Ott
3.3  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  Kavika @3    3 weeks ago

My feeling is that the parties were well on their way in those directions long before now. The nexus just happened to occur at a most inopportune moment.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
3.3.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Steve Ott @3.3    3 weeks ago
My feeling is that the parties were well on their way in those directions long before now.

I agree.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4  The Magic Eight Ball    3 weeks ago
In A Deeply Divided Nation, Democrats And Republicans Don’t Just Disagree, They Hate Each Other.”

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Steve Ott
4.1  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4    3 weeks ago

[Deleted] Especially when I defend Muslims.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.1  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Steve Ott @4.1    3 weeks ago

we don't wake up pissed off about muslims.... LOL

[Deleted]

until then?  ya missed by a mile.

 
 
 
Steve Ott
4.1.2  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.1    3 weeks ago
we don't wake up pissed off about muslims.... LOL

Perhaps you don't, but some do, and I have had my moments with them.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.3  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Steve Ott @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

your roommates don't represent the majority.

meanwhile, tds is rampant in the left.

I honestly doubt they will ever get over trumps election much less his re-election in nov.

 
 
 
Steve Ott
4.1.4  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.3    3 weeks ago

My roommate would be my wife. The encounters have occurred both here and Facebook. [Deleted]

Nor did I state that it was majority opinion, but it obviously has garnered much attention over the last several years, which I presume you have forgotten.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.5  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Steve Ott @4.1.4    3 weeks ago
but it obviously has garnered much attention over the last several years,

when you figure out the difference between muslims and muslim terrorists?   get back to me.

have a great day :)

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.6  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Steve Ott @4.1    3 weeks ago

Deleted

seriously bro, was good fun, I didn't take offense to anything you said.

cheers :)

 
 
 
Steve Ott
4.1.7  seeder  Steve Ott  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @4.1.6    3 weeks ago

It didn't  bother me, but I guess it bothered Sandy. I've been ticketed more in the last 3 months than the previous 10 years. Go figure.

jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
4.1.8  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Steve Ott @4.1.7    3 weeks ago
I've been ticketed more in the last 3 months than the previous 10 years.

nothing I type is any worse than other comments they let stand.

so every ticket  I get is like a gold star. / badge of honor.

 
 
 
bbl-1
5  bbl-1    3 weeks ago

The bottom line here is Putin's campaign to instill uneasiness and division in the Western Democracies is working.

 
 
 
It Is ME
6  It Is ME    3 weeks ago

"80 percent of Democrats described the Republican Party as controlled by racists, according to Public Religion Research Institute polling. A similar percentage of Republicans see the Democratic Party as controlled by socialists."

The News Media is just followin' a more up to date " Journalist Creed " now.

1908 is so in the "Past" ! 

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online



65 visitors