Are people who don't follow Covid restrictions immoral ?

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  john-russell  •  one month ago  •  73 comments

Are people who don't follow Covid restrictions immoral ?

The most commonly accepted model for future coronavirus deaths says there will be over 200,000 additional covid deaths between now and New Years.  This prediction is based on many people not following coronavirus guidelines during the fall and the beginning of the winter. 

200,000 ADDITIONAL deaths. According to the modelers, many of these deaths could be avoided if people were to wear masks when  required and keep social distancing. 

The governor of Nevada is blasting Donald Trump today for holding an inside rally last night in that state. 

The governor was asked if he thinks Trump is out of touch with reality and he said "absolutely". 

So far the model has been pretty accurate , so what do you think? Given future avoidable deaths, is flaunting the covid restrictions immoral ? 


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JohnRussell
1  author  JohnRussell    one month ago

The answer is yes, but apathy rules. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one month ago

A rather twisted view of morality. What is immoral is the unnecessary lock downs, putting millions of people out of work, and all the fallout that has resulted from that. Joe Biden being elected wouldn't change people's behavior 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    one month ago

People look to a leader for what to do. Our leader is holding a rally today with no masks, no social distancing in a state that doesn't allow it, so he is even being an example for lawlessness. That is not a president. That is an egotist. 

Biden has already done better.

You don't want statewide closedowns then follow the CDC guidelines. It's really that simple.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    one month ago

The federal government should have guaranteed the survival of businesses from the beginning. Yes it would cost trillions of dollars but if it had been done and everyone followed the restrictions, we would be on the other side of it already. The federal government can sustain almost limitless debt, the states and the cities cannot. 

The US has perverted the idea of "freedom". 

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
1.1.3  Release The Kraken  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    one month ago

We don't have that kind of coin homeslice. We'd have to end social security at a certain age and walk seniors off a cliff at that age. Wait that's what Bloomberg proposed? Shit I should have voted for him.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Release The Kraken @1.1.3    one month ago

We have limitless coin. 

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
1.1.5  Release The Kraken  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.4    one month ago

Well sir that is not true. If you are talking printing paper money it comes with consequences. Inflation and currency devaluation.

Reality isn't romantic.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.6  Greg Jones  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one month ago
People look to a leader for what to do.

Are you serious?  Only mindless sheep need a shepard.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.7  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Release The Kraken @1.1.3    one month ago

Back in the old days, people didnt know how to keep plague from spreading. 50% of the population died in some European towns.  Today thanks to modern medicine we do know how to keep it from spreading. 

Are those who refuse to co-operate with halting the spread immoral ? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.8  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.6    one month ago

If people didnt look to a leader for what to do the concept of "leader" wouldnt exist. 

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
1.1.9  Release The Kraken  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.8    one month ago

Trump is the greatest president in US history. Hop on winning train, you know you want to?

We could maga together?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.10  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Release The Kraken @1.1.9    one month ago
Trump is the greatest president in US history.

I think you got a bad batch of mushrooms there. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.4    one month ago

Damn, John....I'm actually agreeing with BF here.

It's been a god awful Monday

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.12  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.11    one month ago

about what? that we cant afford trillions of dollars?  we already do afford it. the national debt right now is something like 26 trillion. Do you really think three trillion more would be the backbreaker? 

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.13  Tacos!  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one month ago
People look to a leader for what to do.

You really think that’s true? I see minimal evidence of that. Some might operate that way, but I think a great many people do what they choose to do. They might consider advice or guidance, but they aren’t waiting for some leader to tell them. Americans, in particular, are very independent - even the progressives who seek government control of so many things. They make up their own minds, for better or worse.

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
1.1.14  Release The Kraken  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.11    one month ago
It's been a god awful Monday

It's the maga train, everyone wants on. First you are overwhelmed with admiration for your country [deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.12    one month ago

I'm not as well versed in economics as you but it seems to me you can't just pull money out of thin air...I've tried and it doesn't work. Eventually Americans are going to have pay that credit card bill and it's gonna hurt

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.16  Trout Giggles  replied to  Release The Kraken @1.1.14    one month ago

I'm not getting on that filthy, diseased train.

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
1.1.17  Release The Kraken  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.16    one month ago

jrSmiley_122_smiley_image.gif

Oh no!

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.18  Dulay  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.15    one month ago

The amount needed to get the pandemic under control would be more relevant IF we had already cut all the crap out of our budget and were running on fumes. As it is, we spend millions on Trump going golfing and a wall, BILLIONS on weaponry that not ever the military wants and the list goes on and on. After a while, those millions add up to billions add up to trillions and we're talking about some real money. 

Almost every person who has contracted Covid will have a lasting effect to their health. We will all be paying for that into perpetuity.

A 3 week period of financial pain versus how many more lives? 

A perfect example of that is the Sturgus bike rally. Over 200,000 MORE Covid cases and over 12 BILLION in health care costs. All for a 10 day exhibition of utter stupidity. Those BILLIONS could have been saved, along with the life and health of all of those people, merely by changing behavior. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.19  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.15    one month ago

then why hasnt the "eventually" come some time in the first 26 trillion?  This is actually a national emergency unlike some of the other things we spend money on. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.20  Tessylo  replied to  Dulay @1.1.18    one month ago

"A perfect example of that is the Sturgus bike rally. Over 200,000 MORE Covid cases and over 12 BILLION in health care costs. All for a 10 day exhibition of utter stupidity. Those BILLIONS could have been saved, along with the life and health of all of those people, merely by changing behavior."

But, but, I've been told/trolled by certain posters that that is bogus Dulay.  

Go figure.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.21  Greg Jones  replied to  Dulay @1.1.18    one month ago
Over 200,000 MORE Covid cases and over 12 BILLION in health care costs.
The truth of that has never been scientifically established. Those numbers are imaginary.
 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.22  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.16    one month ago

"I'm not getting on that filthy, diseased train."

Same here!

That's a batshit crazy/crazy as a shithouse rat train.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.23  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.19    one month ago

And you are assuming that just throwing more money at the problem will magically make it go away?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.24  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.6    one month ago

So what's your excuse Greg?

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.25  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.21    one month ago

For your reading pleasure. 

http://ftp.iza.org/dp13670.pdf

 
 
 
CB
1.1.26  CB   replied to  Release The Kraken @1.1.3    one month ago

"Homeslice" and. . . not yet a senior. . . The People's Fish?!

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
1.1.27  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one month ago
People look to a leader for what to do.

actually, we don't have "leaders....   we have "representatives.

we don't follow presidents, they follow our will or we vote them out.

if thousands on the left can riot and burn cities, business, and destroy countless lives?

we can surely go to a peaceful political rally

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.1.28  pat wilson  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    one month ago

Yes but now the CDC is compromised. The HHS spokesperson, deranged Michael Caputo is telling the CDC what they can and cannot say about Covid-19. Who can people believe ?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.29  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.19    one month ago

I. Don't. Know.

I really don't have an argument

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.30  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.22    one month ago

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one month ago

Rather than being immoral, in my opinion the answer to the question is that such people are just plain stupid.  I've been witness to the fact that following the guidelines contains the virus, and by not doing so, as has been established in the USA, leads to a disaster.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
2  Perrie Halpern R.A.    one month ago

Yes, but stupidity also applies

 
 
 
Gordy327
2.1  Gordy327  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2    one month ago

And let's face it, there are a lot of stupid people in this country.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.1.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Gordy327 @2.1    one month ago

Some right here that deny science, data, and facts.....

 
 
 
Gordy327
2.1.2  Gordy327  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.1.1    one month ago
Some right here that deny science, data, and facts.

Here and in a large portion of the country I'd wager. People seem rather hostile towards science as of late, which is sad. After all, what's better than science? Especially for society and the world in general?

 
 
 
Kathleen
3  Kathleen    one month ago

Inconsiderate is the word I use.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @3    one month ago

Agreed.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1    one month ago

Inconsiderate is when you step on someones toes as you you cut in front of them in line.  I don't think inconsiderate applies to life and death. 

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
3.1.2  Release The Kraken  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.1    one month ago
is when you step on someones toes as you you cut in front of them in line.

I thought that was Affirmative action.

 
 
 
Kathleen
3.1.3  Kathleen  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.1    one month ago

You are not considering the people around you.  Wearing a mask shows you are being considerate of others.

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
3.1.4  Release The Kraken  replied to  Kathleen @3.1.3    one month ago

Not to mention it hides bad dental issues and makes half the population more attractive.

 
 
 
Kathleen
3.1.5  Kathleen  replied to  Release The Kraken @3.1.4    one month ago

Lol.. you can also stick you tongue out at somebody and they won’t know it...

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @3.1.5    one month ago

Great benefits! :)

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
4  Release The Kraken    one month ago

I wear a mask, use a condom and dental damn now and wear rubber gloves when performing inspections of the kitty. I no longer wear boxers either, but latex briefs to trap farts in for protection for the people around me.

I am as some say a Branch Covidian. Let's hope the feds don't burn down my compound. I didnt do nuffin!

 
 
 
Tacos!
5  Tacos!    one month ago

Not all restrictions, no. The easy, obvious ones like mask wearing and social distancing? Sure. 

However, some restrictions are arbitrary and not really based on a strong foundation of medical science. Heck, some of them seem to blatantly ignore the guidance - like random closing of beaches (a place that is outside and where people tend to sit separate from other groups/families. Or the different treatment of very similar activities - for example, in some places, you can get your hair done, but not your nails.

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
5.1  Release The Kraken  replied to  Tacos! @5    one month ago

I stopped getting my hair cut in February. Now I pray everyday the mullet faze ends soon. Grow little hairs grow!  I had an epic beard from Feb to now too but i trimmed it last weak and had an accident and had to shave it all off. It was braidable too dammit.

 
 
 
Tacos!
5.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  Release The Kraken @5.1    one month ago

Just shave it all like I do. You’ll be happier. 

 
 
 
MUVA
5.1.2  MUVA  replied to  Release The Kraken @5.1    one month ago

I have hair in weird places the top of my head has become a waste land not much to cut the occasional wild hair is about it.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6  Nerm_L    one month ago

What everyone seems to be overlooking is that the most wildly optimistic projectionss are that mandated lockdowns and universal mask wearing would reduce the number of infections by 1/3 and reduce fatalities by 1/2.  If the country had completely shutdown we would still have 4 million infections and 100,000 fatalities.  There aren't any projections that show lockdowns and masks would have stopped the spread of the virus or stopped fatalities.  And disasters like hurricanes, severe weather, and wild fires throw a monkey wrench into those wildly optimistic projections.

According to the expert prognostications we still have another year of this.  FDA approval of a vaccine is only the first step in distributing doses to the general public.  Vaccinating everyone will be a logistics nightmare that will make vote-by-mail look like child's play.  And we still have no idea how much we will have to pay for a vaccination.  And if the vaccine doesn't provide long term immunity, the first people vaccinated will need to be vaccinated again before everyone has been vaccinated.

The government's economic support during the pandemic has squashed efforts to address climate change like a bug on a windshield.  And government spending has been too piddly to keep the economy going.  So far, the estimates are that direct expenditures by Congress and monetary support by the Fed amounts to $6 trillion.  And we aren't even halfway through the pandemic with it's economic fallout.  YaleEnvironment360 estimates that converting the electric grid to alternatives would cost $4.5 trillion.  Bye bye alternative energy.  For the foreseeable future the government will be spending money just so we survive.

Thank you, China.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Nerm_L @6    one month ago

A mask is a face condom.  A condom may provide the wearer some protection but that isn't the main purpose for wearing a condom.

Someone that refuses to wear a condom is not a safe sex partner.  Refusing to wear a mask kinda indicates what kind of sex partner an individual would be.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.2  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @6    one month ago
According to the expert prognostications we still have another year of this. 

Who would it have hurt to not have the Sturgis motorcycle rally ? No one but the people that sell things there.  What if an earthquake had hit that area and they had to cancel the event?  Whats the difference?

The truth is many Americans dont care if 400,000 of their fellow Americans die. Its more important to them to go out and have a good time anytime they like. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.2.1  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @6.2    one month ago
Who would it have hurt to not have the Sturgis motorcycle rally ? No one but the people that sell things there.  What if an earthquake had hit that area and they had to cancel the event?  Whats the difference?

Who would it have hurt to not have vandalized statues, painted streets, and created occupied protest zones?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
6.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @6    one month ago
"There aren't any projections that show lockdowns and masks would have stopped the spread of the virus or stopped fatalities."

Maybe not, but I've been a witness to it's working to an almost perfect result, and the minimal resurgances have been contained as well. 

"Thank you, China."

Would have been a lot smarter to emulate it than to thank it, but the O'Donnell Republican Covid Playbook for the reelection of Donald Trump didn't tell you that. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.3.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.3    one month ago
Would have been a lot smarter to emulate it than to thank it, but the O'Donnell Republican Covid Playbook for the reelection of Donald Trump didn't tell you that. 

256

 
 
 
Dulay
6.4  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @6    one month ago
There aren't any projections that show lockdowns and masks would have stopped the spread of the virus or stopped fatalities. 

Actually, there are, and anyone with a modicum of curiosity could find them easily. They are from the same source that the Trump 'task force' has cited at many of their briefings. 

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=mask-use&tab=trend

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.4.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @6.4    one month ago
Actually, there are, and anyone with a modicum of curiosity could find them easily. They are from the same source that the Trump 'task force' has cited at many of their briefings. 

Here's the quote from the link you provided (the part you missed has been highlighted):

Mask userepresents the percentage of the population who say they always wear a mask in public. Mask use can reduce transmission by 30% or more.
BTW, I've visited the site in your link before.  And I know how to read what is presented on the site.
 
 
 
Dulay
6.4.2  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @6.4.1    one month ago
BTW, I've visited the site in your link before.  And I know how to read what is presented on the site.

Then WHY did you say:

There aren't any projections that show lockdowns and masks would have stopped the spread of the virus or stopped fatalities. 

You posted a quote that refutes your comment yet you refuse to acknowledge it. 

Mask use can reduce transmission by 30% or more.

You know that transmission is 'spread' right? 

So while I know you insist that only STOPPING the spread is worthy of your recognition, those of us on Earth 1 realize that REDUCING the transmission is a WIN. 

BTW, review the Daily Deaths chart that shows the difference between continued restrictions and easing restrictions. Instead of 1000+ a day, easing the restrictions send daily deaths by Dec.1 to 5000+. and to 12,000 by Jan.1. 

Ya, let's go there...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.4.3  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @6.4.2    one month ago
You posted a quote that refutes your comment yet you refuse to acknowledge it. 

jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif  

Read @ 6 again.  

 
 
 
Dulay
6.4.4  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @6.4.3    one month ago
Read @ 6 again.

Why? It's the same blather I read the first time. 

I posted a link to projections that DO show restrictions and masks DO reduce the spread of the virus. You pretend that YOU know how to read the data. DO so. I invite members to review the Daily Death chart for themselves. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
6.4.5  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @6.4.4    one month ago
I posted a link to projections that DO show restrictions and masks DO reduce the spread of the virus.

That's exactly what I said. 

Masks reduce spread of the virus by 1/3 according to optimistic projections.  There aren't any projections that claim masks will stop the spread of the virus; masks only reduce spread of the virus by 1/3.

 
 
 
Tacos!
6.4.6  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @6.4    one month ago
Actually, there are, and anyone with a modicum of curiosity could find them easily.

No, your link doesn't say masks would stop the virus or fatalities, which is the quote you responded to. It says it would reduce the rate of transmission by about 30% or more, which is something Nerm already mentioned.

 
 
 
Dulay
6.4.7  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @6.4.6    one month ago

So while I know you insist that only STOPPING the spread is worthy of your recognition, those of us on Earth 1 realize that REDUCING the transmission is a WIN. 

Rinse and repeat as needed for effect. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
6.4.8  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @6.4.7    one month ago
So while I know you insist that only STOPPING the spread is worthy of your recognition

Incorrect. I never said anything like that.

those of us on Earth 1 realize that REDUCING the transmission is a WIN

Wrong again. I never said reducing transmission wasn't a worthy goal, and neither did Nerm.

 
 
 
Texan1211
6.4.9  Texan1211  replied to  Tacos! @6.4.8    one month ago

Always easier for some to argue words they put in your mouth than the actual words you say.

 
 
 
Tacos!
6.4.10  Tacos!  replied to  Texan1211 @6.4.9    one month ago

Sometimes people are more interested in just beating other people up online and "winning" than they are in just having a conversation.

 
 
 
Dulay
6.4.11  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @6.4.8    one month ago
So while I know you insist that only STOPPING the spread is worthy of your recognition        Incorrect. I never said anything like that.

Except this:

No, your link doesn't say masks would stop the virus or fatalities

Pffft. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
6.4.12  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @6.4.11    one month ago

I don't know what argument you think you just made, but I still didn't say the things you claimed I did. Why keep on with trying to insist that I either said something I didn't, or believe something I don't?

 
 
 
r.t..b...
7  r.t..b...    one month ago

Wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience. Wearing a mask is not an affront to your rights. Wearing a mask is an acknowledgment that you care for your fellow citizens.
The simplest of gestures...and not making this simple sacrifice of donning one when in public, in deafened defiance of scientific fact, not to mention a blatant ‘fook you’ to your neighbors says all we need to know about  one’s character individually and our fall from grace societally.

That the wearing or not wearing of a mask may define an era is the most embarrassing thing imaginable. Shame on those who conflate it into an issue of freedom. Those that do so do not understand the sacrifices made to guarantee that freedom. Bastardizing it into a shallow political statement that is so ignorantly and willfully flaunted. Shameful indeed. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  r.t..b... @7    one month ago

Whatever happened to the "heroism" of the Americans, self-sacrifice so evident at the time of WW2 when people even lied about their age to qualify to enlist?  Why has it turned into selfishness and ignorance?   Whatever happened to the idealism of those who responded to "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" who joined peace corps and volunteered?  Look at what is happening among the present generations.  What happened?  Nobody else can be pointed to or blamed for the manner in which Americans and their leaders have dealt with this pandemic. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
7.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.1    one month ago

I think we can blame a lot of that on the Me Generation of the 1970's

 
 
 
Tacos!
7.2  Tacos!  replied to  r.t..b... @7    one month ago
Wearing a mask is a minor inconvenience.

I think that's relative. It's not as minor as we sometimes make out.

For a lot of people it's actually very inconvenient. If you have to do physically strenuous work, or work outside in the heat, the mask can be extremely uncomfortable and even create skin irritation issues. For me, I wear glasses, and no matter how I adjust the mask or my glasses, I struggle constantly with the problem of fog on my lenses.

 
 
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