Chuck Todd Goes Off on Ron Johnson Joining Election Gambit

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  2 weeks ago  •  129 comments

By:   Josh Feldman (Mediaite)

Chuck Todd Goes Off on Ron Johnson Joining Election Gambit
Chuck Todd grilled Senator Ron Johnson (R- WI) on Meet the Press for the attempt to object to the 2020 election results he has joined in with several other

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



By Josh FeldmanJan 3rd, 2021, 10:21 am

Chuck Todd grilled Senator Ron Johnson (R- WI) on Meet the Press for the attempt to object to the 2020 election results he has joined in with several other Republican colleagues.

The cases President Donald Trump's team have brought before judges (even Trump-appointed ones) have been rejected, and Joe Biden's win has been affirmed in several of the contested states multiple times.

But Johnson is joining other Senate Republicans planning to reject the election results on January 6th, citing "unprecedented allegations of voter fraud."

After President Trump and other Republicans and Republicans have repeatedly raised questions about the election results, Johnson touted how many Americans have questions about the election results.

Todd shot back, "You made an allegation there was widespread fraud, you have failed to offer specific evidence of that widespread fraud, but you're demanding an investigation on the grounds that there are allegations of widespread fraud. So essentially you're the arsonist here. President Trump is the arsonist here. You've started this fire and now you're saying, 'Whoa! Look at this! Oh my God! All these people believe what we told them!' Because you didn't have the guts to tell the truth that this election was fair!"

Johnson countered this was started when the media "dropped any pretense of being unbiased" and they "completely ignored" the Hunter Biden probe.

"Senator, I've had enough of hearing this," Todd interjected.

"I've had enough of this too," Johnson said.

Todd went off on Johnson for spending a lot of time "carrying a lot of this crazy, conspiratorial water for President Trump," and asked him if this is about him trying to "curry favor" with Trump supporters.

Johnson talked up claims of voter fraud in the election, and Todd jumped in to say, "Stop. You don't get to make these allegations that haven't been proven true."

Johnson defended the hearing he held and said he's just addressing concerns "millions of Americans" have.

Todd then straight-up asked Johnson, "Why didn't you hold hearings about the 9/11 truthers? There's plenty of people who thought 9/11 was an inside job. What you're basically saying is if there's enough people who believe a conspiracy theory… how about the moon landing? Are you going to hold hearings on that?"

After continuing to argue back and forth, Todd ended the segment by saying he credits Johnson for coming on, "because only two of your colleagues had the guts to say yes this weekend about this conspiracy theory."

You can watch above, via NBC.


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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago
So essentially you're the arsonist here. President Trump is the arsonist here.

You've started this fire and now you're saying, 'Whoa! Look at this! Oh my God!

All these people believe what we told them!' Because you didn't have the guts to tell the truth that this election was fair!"
 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago

How many caught Meet the Press for this blatant show of hypocrisy?

Todd denounces Sen. Johnson and others as conspiracy theorists and quacks. Immediately after than condemnation Todd asks Stacey Abrams how such a great candidate as herself is not running. It's hard to believe that Todd has the gall to call anyone else biased!

Maybe Todd should have explained why he thinks the creation of a Commission to look at the election is "entirely unnecessary" despite millions who view the election as rigged. Wouldn't it be a good idea for some transparency and to let the chips fall where they may?  How about doing it for the next election?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    2 weeks ago

Vic,

When in the history of this country, have we ever needed a commission when this thing has been dragged through the courts, conservative judges have reviewed it, most republican reps don't back this, and yet you want to waste more money on a fait accompli? And what kind of precedent does this set for future elections?

As I said, imagine if Al Gore did this. I'm sorry, but you'd be laughing instead of asking for a commission. 

 
 
 
lady in black
1.1.2  lady in black  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    2 weeks ago

Enough is enough, it's over, he LOST.  There are people out there that would have you believe that everyone in the entire government and court system is in on some big conspiracy of fraud.  There was no fraud.  He lost, end of story.  60+ law suits thrown out of all courts, even republican courts with judges that orange conman appointed.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

Al Gore didn't have millions seriously questioning the way the election was carried out. We had election rules changed in this one and yes, there were irregularities:




I understand that the election is over and it's final, but I think everyone could use a little transparency. What is wrong with that?  Shouldn't we avoid this nightmare next time?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  lady in black @1.1.2    2 weeks ago
it's over,

It is over.


 There was no fraud.

None?  How can you prove that?

I know - TRANSPARENCY!

 
 
 
lady in black
1.1.5  lady in black  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.4    2 weeks ago

Here's some fraud for you right from the scumbags mouth that claims to be the "law and order president":

Audio: Trump berates Ga. secretary of state, urges him to ‘find’ votes 

Transparency my aunt fanny

What does it tell one when the courts have thrown out 60+ law suits.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  lady in black @1.1.5    2 weeks ago

Not interested.

I'm only interested in preventing this chaos from ever happening again. Let's find out why certain states could count all their votes on election night and some took days. Let's find out why State Legislatures, which are the only ones to make election laws, allowed their powers to be subjugated. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.7  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

Vic,

Of course, he did. The Florida recount was ended by a conservative court, with both houses being conservative. He sucked it up and took it. So did all the Dems. You seem to have forgotten that. So we don't know if he won Florida or not. But Trump has actually been heard by courts all over this country. He has had the states count and recount the votes. Nothing is good enough. If Gord did this, you would have been telling him to shut up already.... 

 
 
 
lady in black
1.1.8  lady in black  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

Of course you're not, [deleted] the truth about the bs that comes out of orange conman's mouth, trying to "persuade" an SOS to "find" him votes.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.9  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.7    2 weeks ago

Perrie,

If you let this go people will lose faith in something that we all believed in - our election system. We are talking about the future. I have yet to hear anyone talk about how to prevent what we went through in November. Do you really like having votes sitting around being counted days after an election?  Any thoughts on at least having votes counted within 24 hours of the polls closing?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.11  Vic Eldred  replied to  lady in black @1.1.8    2 weeks ago

And you want to slam Trump. Try to understand I'm not talking about him. This is a larger discussion. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.12  Vic Eldred  replied to    2 weeks ago

That's right. Right now we need to address what should have been addressed months before the November election.

 
 
 
lady in black
1.1.13  lady in black  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.11    2 weeks ago

Oh please, here is proof positive orange conman trying to "steal" the election which he lost bigly and that's okay with you.  Nothing to see here, move along folks but let's make sure we do something about Biden's win to muddy the waters and show he didn't win.  

 
 
 
lady in black
1.1.15  lady in black  replied to    2 weeks ago

He lost, no voter fraud.  How many recounts have to be done and how many more court cases have to be thrown out for you to get that he LOST.  If you haven't noticed we are in the middle of a pandemic so states changes their laws to include absentee votes from people that did not want to take the chance of getting sick just so they could vote.

I voted in person, luckily when I went to my polling place there were very few people there at the time. I did hem and haw about getting an absentee ballot but decided not to.

 
 
 
Dragon
1.1.16  Dragon  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

Exactly what is this transparency you speak of? The vote counting was overseen by representatives of both parties, there have been multiple audits all of which verified original count, courts have rejected allegations due to lack of evidence.

It seems the only way Trump supporters will think there is transparency is if Trump is declared winner...otherwise they will continue to rant and whine. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.18  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dragon @1.1.16    2 weeks ago

I don't want to overturn the election.  Can you hear me? 

I want an complete autopsy (a commission) to look at the 2020 election - starting with all the rule changes that Marc Elias sued for in battleground states and going all the way until the final vote was counted. Going through it and providing the public with a report would help to correct what was a chaotic election that should never be repeated. Maybe some federal guidance will come out of it.

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.1.19  pat wilson  replied to    2 weeks ago
So you are saying there was zero fraud

No, the election officials found three cases in Pennsylvania. All were trying to vote for trump. Two ballots were for dead people and one ballot was a father who stole his son's ballot and was caught trying to use it to vote for trump.

There's always going to be some incidents of voter fraud.

 
 
 
pat wilson
1.1.22  pat wilson  replied to    2 weeks ago

Of course, we should not look the other way when crime is being committed.

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.1.23  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    2 weeks ago
Maybe Todd should have explained why he thinks the creation of a Commission to look at the election is "entirely unnecessary" despite millions who view the election as rigged.

The irony should be obvious even to the most jaded Trump supporter.

The Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity ( PEIC or PACEI ), also called the Voter Fraud Commission , was a Presidential Commission established by Donald Trump that ran from May 11, 2017 to January 3, 2018. [1] [2] The Trump administration said the commission would review claims of voter fraud, improper registration, and voter suppression. [3] The establishment of the commission followed through on previous discredited claims by Trump that millions of illegal immigrants had voted in the 2016 United States presidential election , costing him the popular vote. [4] Vice President Mike Pence served as chair of the commission, while Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach served as vice chair and day-to-day administrator.

On June 28, 2017, Kobach wrote a letter in conjunction with the Department of Justice requesting personal voter information from every state. [5] The request was met with significant bipartisan backlash and a majority of states refused to supply some or all of the information, citing privacy concerns or state laws. [6] [7]

Trump's creation of the commission was criticized by voting rights advocates, scholars and experts, and newspaper editorial boards as a pretext for, and prelude to, voter suppression . [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13]

On January 3, 2018, the commission was disbanded by Trump, with a statement from the White House blaming many states' refusal to turn over information as well as legal disputes. [14] [15] At that time, Trump asked that the investigation be transferred to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), which already holds much of the requested state voter data and oversees immigration records. [16] The acting DHS press secretary said that Kobach would not be advising or working with DHS, and the White House said it would destroy all the state voter data collected by the Commission. The panel disbanded without any preliminary findings.

Good luck with another one. 

 
 
 
Dragon
1.1.24  Dragon  replied to    2 weeks ago

I never said there was zero fraud. There is always a low level of fraud that individuals commit, and it appears many of those are caught. There will never be a zero level of fraud in any election.

You did not address my question, exactly what is the transparency you speak of? 

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.1.25  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.9    2 weeks ago
If you let this go people will lose faith in something that we all believed in - our election system. We are talking about the future.

You have already lost faith in the system.

Many minorities have never believed in the system.

Maybe what you are experiencing is something called parity.

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.1.26  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.18    2 weeks ago
I want an complete autopsy (a commission) to look at the 2020 election

I want the winning lotto numbers.

59 court challenges later, mostly hinged on State's rights and you want an autopsy?

I have a better chance with the Lotto.

All you want, is to turn over the results of the Super Bowl after the fact

because one or two fouls were missed or called incorrectly by the referees.

That isn't the way things work.

Put it in the books and look forward to next year.

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1.27  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @1.1.26    2 weeks ago
Put it in the books and look forward to next year

that probably isn't going to be a viable option for the former POTUS. bummer, huh?

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.28  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.3    2 weeks ago
"Shouldn't we avoid this nightmare next time?

This nightmare is over on January 20th, 2021

 
 
 
bugsy
1.1.29  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.28    2 weeks ago

You are right if those that had the nightmare refuse to get jobs and pay taxes, and demand everything be handed to them...ie....most liberals.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.30  FLYNAVY1  replied to  bugsy @1.1.29    2 weeks ago

Noooooo.....It has been repeatedly shown that it is red states that are the takers.... from hard working blue states.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
2  sandy-2021492    2 weeks ago

Chuck Todd should have been calling Trump out on his lies long before now, not to mention those in the Trump administration who parroted them.  Going with the arson metaphor, he saw the fire, or should have, and never reported it.

 
 
 
Ender
2.1  Ender  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    2 weeks ago

One thing I have to agree with John on. The press and others have more or less just normalized donald and his behavior.

The ones that dared call him on his lies were demonized.

 
 
 
Dragon
2.1.1  Dragon  replied to  Ender @2.1    2 weeks ago

I hope once Trump is out of office the media, especially ones like MSNBC, CNN, NPR stop giving him any air time. Stop reporting on anything he does, if not then they are supporting his, and his supporters ridiculous and dangerous behavior.  

 
 
 
Ender
2.1.2  Ender  replied to  Dragon @2.1.1    2 weeks ago

I agree. Let him spout his lies on the conspiracy channels.

 
 
 
Gsquared
2.1.3  Gsquared  replied to  Ender @2.1.2    2 weeks ago

They can conduct interviews of Trump from Rikers Island in New York or Georgia State Prison.  Whichever jurisdiction gets to him first.  Of course, if the feds get him first, the interviews could be from Supermax (USP Florence ADMAX)

 
 
 
Greg Jones
3  Greg Jones    2 weeks ago

"this election was fair!"

It obviously wasn't fair or fraud free. Too many irregularities and illegal procedures allowed in the way the votes were tallied. Biden's "win" will forever be considered to be illegitimate.and carry several asterisks. ***** 

Little Chucky Todd is a disgusting disgrace to the profession...it seems like all the Tim Russert's are gone.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
3.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago

How many lawsuits do Trump and his army of morons need to lose before the election becomes fair?  100?  1,000?  2 million?  What’s your number?

 
 
 
devangelical
3.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1    2 weeks ago

it wouldn't matter. millions of trumpsters still believe his fake obama birth certificate conspiracy.

 
 
 
Ender
3.2  Ender  replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago

Show me these irregularities...

You have nothing. Georgia was recounted three times. There was even a signature match done...

What is a disgrace is people like you saying bullshit without any proof at all.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
3.2.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ender @3.2    2 weeks ago

These guys spent YEARS defending Trump with the message that Dems were just sore losers, then went on to become the epitome of sore losers.

 
 
 
Kavika
3.3  Kavika   replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago
Biden's "win" will forever be considered to be illegitimate.and carry several asterisks. ***** 

Only by the delusional.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago

Gregg,

Conservative judges appointed by Trump has said that there is no further need for further investigation and that the votes were fair. Why would they do that if there was a case?

I can't imagine if Al Gore did this. All the conservatives would have been laughing their heads off at him. You can't have a double standard.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.4.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to    2 weeks ago

I am not against purging voter logs, but the checks and double and triple checks have shown that there were not enough discrepancies to change the outcome of the election. Felons are allowed to vote in many states. 

And I am going to disagree with you about Gore. He took his loss the way you are supposed to. You seem to have missed my whole point.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.4.2    2 weeks ago

We have a judge in Georgia (the sister of Stacey Abrams) ruling that the Georgia voting rolls may not be cleaned of voters who moved from the state for the Senate runoff election. Does that make sense?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.4.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.3    2 weeks ago

I don't know enough about this, but I am willing to look at information on it. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.7  Vic Eldred  replied to    2 weeks ago

That is the correct answer.

The only reason one could imagine for keeping voters who are no longer residents on the voter rolls is to invite fraud.

She also refused to recuse herself in order to make that outrageous ruling!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.8  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.4.6    2 weeks ago
I am willing to look at information on it. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.4.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.8    2 weeks ago

Vic,

There is a reason which is in your article:

Gardner's ruling said that booting thousands of voters from the rosters appeared to violate a federal law that requires a voter be given an opportunity to provide written confirmation of a change of address prior to being removed from the list. In addition, the necessary protocols for purging the roster were not followed within 90 days of a federal election.  "Where the issue concerns a voter’s change of address, as in this case, the NVRA [National Voter Registration Act of 1993] prohibits the removal of that voter unless the voter confirms in writing that he or she has moved outside of the county or does not respond to a notice and has not voted in two federal election cycles," the ruling said. 

So basically the complaint came late in the game. She is not ruling based on her own bias.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.10  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.4.9    2 weeks ago
She is not ruling based on her own bias.

I beg to differ. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.4.11  Split Personality  replied to    2 weeks ago

They arrested the three Republican voters in PA  ( former red state controlled by GOP House & Senate )

who tried to vote for Trump twice.

It's all on court records now.

There are procedures for culling the voter records that are regulated bt the Federal law from 1993.

In short, prove it, or stop repeating rumors.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.4.12  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.10    2 weeks ago

Beg away, she has the LAW on her side.

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.4.14  Tessylo  replied to    2 weeks ago

Tough guy!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.15  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @3.4.12    2 weeks ago
she has the LAW on her side.

No she doesn't. She is an activist using law to allow for fraud.

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.4.16  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.15    2 weeks ago

Obama's solicitor general said Trump talked 'like a mafia boss, and not a particularly smart mafia boss' one in his call with Georgia's elections chief

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.17  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @3.4.11    2 weeks ago
They arrested the three Republican voters in PA 

I thought were was absolutely no voter fraud?

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.4.18  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.17    2 weeks ago

Only voter fraud found was by republicans.  Funny how you ignored that.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.4.19  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.17    2 weeks ago

Can you quote me on that?  No, not at all.  Why is there a Sargent at Arms in every PA voting place?

However PA proves that it is microscopic in nature and in this cycle three Republicans were caught

out of 6,917,583 votes allowed.  I will leave the math to you.

Naturally there will be a GOP outcry for new, tougher ID requirements with multiple year signature comparisons,

possibly fingerprints or retinal scans. /s

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.4.21  Tessylo  replied to    2 weeks ago

You think it

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.4.22  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.15    2 weeks ago

I guess that is the only corner you can paint yourself into, lol...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.23  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @3.4.19    2 weeks ago
However PA proves that it is microscopic in nature and in this cycle three Republicans were caught out of 6,917,583 votes allowed.  I will leave the math to you.

Here is all I know about PA. The state wound up with mail-in-balloting which was not prescribed by the state legislature. 

During the vote counting:

 23,000 absentee ballots have impossible postal return dates and another 86,000 have such extraordinary return dates they raise serious questions.

 50,000 votes held on 47 USB cards are missing.

Serious ‘chain of custody’ breakdowns.

Invalid residential addresses.

Record numbers of dead people voting.

Ballots in pristine condition without creases, that is, they had not been mailed in envelopes as required by law


During the vote counting in the key battleground states:

Late on election night, with Trump comfortably ahead, many swing states stopped counting ballots. In most cases, observers were removed from the counting facilities. Counting generally continued without the observers.

Statistically abnormal vote counts were the new normal when counting resumed. They were unusually large in size (hundreds of thousands) and had an unusually high (90 percent and above) Biden-to-Trump ratio





Those are issues that need to be prevented before the election. The Republicans didn't do a thing to prevent it and we could all see what Marc Elias & the democrats was trying to do all summer.

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.4.24  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.23    2 weeks ago

Proof?  Because tRump 'said so' isn't valid proof. . . . 

 
 
 
Thomas
3.4.25  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.23    2 weeks ago

From Factcheck.org.

Nine Election Fraud Claims, None Credible

By   Saranac Hale Spencer

Posted on   December 11, 2020


A   list   of bogus election fraud claims,   cobbled together from dubious websites and failed lawsuits aimed at overturning President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the 2020 election,  has spread widely online.

It appeared in a recent   story   posted in a publication called the   Spectator , an American offshoot of the British journal once   edited   by Boris Johnson, the country’s   Conservative prime minister.

The article has been promoted by, among others, Rep.   Jim Jordan   of Ohio and former House Speaker   Newt Gingrich , even though t he agencies and organizations that oversee U.S. elections have   called   the 2020 election “the most secure in American history.” In a joint   statement  on Nov. 12, federal, state and local officials said: “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.”

Also, Attorney General William Barr — who had broken with longstanding   guidance   in the Department of Justice by instructing prosecutors to investigate allegations of voter fraud before the election results were certified —   said   on Dec. 1 that his department has “not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

Still, the falsehoods aimed at undermining the election continue to circulate on social media. We’ve   debunked   more than two dozen, so far.

We’ll address below the nine claims made in the   Spectator.

States Routinely Stop Counting

Claim:   “Late on election night, with Trump comfortably ahead, many swing states stopped counting ballots. In most cases, observers were removed from the counting facilities. Counting generally continued without the observers.”

Facts:   As we have   previously reported , it is not unusual for all states — not just swing states — to stop counting ballots late on election night. In fact, it is routine for ballot counting to be suspended late in the evening, since final vote tallies and official tabulations are normally certified  after Election Day.

The second part of this claim —   that in “most cases” observers were removed from counting facilities and that counting continued “without the observers” —   is false. FactCheck.org could find only   one such allegation  about counting continuing without observers — in Fulton County, Georgia — which was disputed by county election officials.

In Pennsylvania, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan and Arizona,  all of which were swing states in the 2020 election , we could find no evidence to support such allegations. 

No Evidence of Ballot-Box Stuffing

Claim:   “Statistically abnormal vote counts were the new normal when counting resumed. They were unusually large in size (hundreds of thousands) and had an unusually high (90 percent and above) Biden-to-Trump ratio.”

Facts:   This  vague  claim could either be suggesting that votes were switched (a conspiracy theory  we’ve   repeatedly   debunked  and the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency has said is  false ) or that the mail-in ballots counted after Election Day were illegitimate.

Neither is true.

Since we’ve already addressed the vote-switching conspiracy theories, we’ll focus on the ballot-box stuffing suggestion.

Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, some states made   voting by mail   easier in 2020.   Most states   normally don’t start counting mail-in ballots until Election Day, and mail-in ballots   tend to favor   Democrats in presidential elections. Also, in the run-up to the election, President Donald Trump   repeatedly   discouraged   their use.

So there’s nothing unusual about post-Election Day votes favoring Biden.

The   Spectator   story might have oversold the degree to which those votes favored Biden, though.

In two swing states that keep track of the type of ballot cast for each candidate, Biden garnered more mail-in votes than Trump, but he didn’t win 90% of them. I Pennsylvania , Biden won 76% of the mail-in vote. In  Georgia , he won 65% of the absentee mail-in vote.

Also, CISA has weighed in on two types of ballot-box stuffing claims,   explaining   that states have a variety of measures to protect against the submission of counterfeit mail-in ballots and that the number of overseas military ballots is so small — fewer than 1,000 in most states — that an influx would be   easily detectable .

‘Late Arriving Ballots’ Can Be Counted

Claim:   “Late arriving ballots were counted. In Pennsylvania, 23,000 absentee ballots have impossible postal return dates and another 86,000 have such extraordinary return dates they raise serious questions.”

Facts:
  Twenty-two states and the District of Columbia allowed mail-in ballots that arrived after Election Day to be counted in the Nov. 3 election, according to a   survey of state laws   from the National Conference of State Legislatures. In almost all cases, the ballots had to be postmarked by Election Day.

So, there’s nothing nefarious about states counting legally cast ballots that arrived after Election Day.

In Pennsylvania, state law  requires   mail-in ballots to be received by Election Day in order to be counted. But a state Supreme Court   ruling   in September extended the deadline to Nov. 6 for the 2020 election, as requested by Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf’s administration.

About 10,000 ballots in total were received in that three-day period,   according to   the Pennsylvania Department of State.

That’s 91% lower than what the   Spectator   story suggested.

The story’s suggestion — that “23,000 absentee ballots have impossible postal return dates and another 86,000 have such extraordinary return dates they raise serious questions” — appears to be based on a   post   from a pro-Trump media outlet called the   Epoch Times .

Using a   database   from the Pennsylvania Department of State that shows the dates on which mail-in ballots were sent out to voters and the dates on which those ballots were returned, the story claims that more than 23,000 ballots were   supposedly   returned before they were sent out. It claims that an additional 86,000 ballots are suspect since they were returned either on the same day or the day after they were sent out.

But a Department of State spokeswoman told us in an email, “That data does not indicate fraud.” State law requires counties to provide voters with mail-in ballots at their election offices. So, a voter could go to the county election office, request a mail-in ballot, fill it out at the office and return it — all in one visit to the election office, the spokeswoman explained.

Similarly, voters could return mail-in ballots at in-person locations a day after picking up their ballots. So there’s nothing fraudulent about ballots that were returned on the same day they were issued or the day after.

As for the appearance that ballots were returned before they had been sent out, that’s due largely to an update of the system that feeds the database.

Over the summer, when counties exported voter data from the state system in order to send out requested ballots, the system filled in that date as the date on which the ballots were mailed, the spokeswoman explained. Since some counties were exporting a batch of data days or weeks before they sent out the ballots to voters, on Aug. 28 the state started offering an option for counties to amend the date in the system to reflect the actual date on which the ballots were mailed. This new option would also trigger an email to the voter with an alert that the requested ballot had been sent.

Many counties began using the updating option in October, which was then days or weeks   after   they had sent out the ballots, the spokeswoman said. This resulted in emails going out to voters who had already returned their ballots, causing confusion, and resetting the date in the system. Lehigh County, for example,   posted   a notice about the issue on Facebook on Oct. 20. Greene County responded to voters’ concerns through a radio announcement at the time, a county spokeswoman told us.

So, that discrepancy was a matter of data entry, not widespread fraud.

Signature Matching Requirements Vary by State

Claim:   “The failure to match signatures on mail-in ballots. The destruction of mail-in ballot envelopes, which must contain signatures.”

Facts:   For privacy reasons, mail-in ballots don’t need to be signed — but the   envelopes   they arrive in do. Rules about matching the signature on a mail-in ballot envelope with the signature on file for a voter vary by state, and not all states have such a requirement.

Thirty-one states and the District of Columbia had signature matching requirements in effect for the 2020 election, according to a   report   from the Stanford-MIT Healthy Elections Project. The details of those requirements differ from state to state.

The   Spectator   story doesn’t offer any specific allegations — let alone proof — of election workers eschewing signature matching rules, so this claim is hard to address.

Of the six states where the Trump campaign has contested the election results, four had signature matching requirements — Arizona, Georgia, Michigan and Nevada. Pennsylvania and Wisconsin did not.

So, in two contested states and in about 40% of the country, the “failure to match signatures” means nothing since there’s no requirement to do so.

Number of Rejected Ballots Still Unclear

Claim:   “Historically low absentee ballot rejection rates despite the massive expansion of mail voting. Such is Biden’s narrow margin that, as political analyst Robert Barnes observes, ‘If the states simply imposed the same absentee ballot rejection rate as recent cycles, then Trump wins the election.'”

Facts:   Most states   have not yet released data on how many mail-in ballots were rejected, so we don’t know what the rates were in the 2020 election.

There has been   speculation , though, that they may be lower than in previous years; we’ll explain why later.

But both   Robert Barnes   and, by extension, the   Spectator   story, appear to have based this claim on an internet   post   written by   A.J. Cooke , who describes himself as a “conservative ghostwriter.” With his statement, Barnes   tweeted   a graph that had been included in Cooke’s post.

The   graph   included what Cooke purported to be the number of mail-in ballots that should have been rejected and the number of votes by which Biden won in five states — Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona and Nevada.

In the first four states, as Cooke figured it, the number of ballots that should have been rejected was larger than Biden’s lead.

But relying on this to conclude that Biden should have actually lost those states is flawed.

Cooke came up with the number of ballots he thought should be rejected by applying the   rejection rate from the 2018 midterm   elections for each state to the number of mail-in ballots they received in 2020. But that doesn’t take into account the reasons the rejection rate may have been lower in 2020.

“First, states changed laws that cause rejected ballots, either on their own or through court action,” said Michael McDonald, a political science professor at the University of Florida who runs the   United States Elections Project . “Second, voters returned ballots sooner than in past elections, allowing voters and election officials more time to fix deficient ballots. Third, election officials and outside organizations had better communication with voters who had rejected ballots. States created new online portals where voters could check the status of their ballots, election officials had more proactive outreach efforts, and outside organizations invested in communications to supplement election officials’ efforts.”

In Michigan, one of the states that has released its ballot rejection data, Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson pointed to some of the same reasons.

“It is also gratifying that our voter education efforts, alongside those of countless other nonpartisan organizations, in addition to the installation of secure ballot drop boxes across the state, combined to dramatically reduce the rate of voter disenfranchisement due to late submission and signature errors,” Benson said in a   statement .

Michigan rejected 0.46% of the mail-in ballots submitted for the   2020   election, down from 0.57% in   2018   and 0.49% in   2016 .

No ‘Missing Votes’ in Delaware County, Pennsylvania

Claim:   “Missing votes. In Delaware County, Pennsylvania, 50,000 votes held on 47 USB cards are missing.”

Facts:   This appears to be based on one of the claims advanced by Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s personal lawyer, in his effort to overturn the election results.

Giuliani   brought  several individuals to the Pennsylvania State Senate Majority Policy Committee in a hotel ballroom in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, on Nov. 25. Among them was Gregory Stenstrom, who identified himself as a poll watcher in Delaware County and alleged something similar to this claim.

The   state Senate panel   — made up entirely of Republicans — convened four days after a federal judge   dismissed   a Trump campaign lawsuit aimed at preventing Pennsylvania from certifying its election results.

Biden won the state by 80,555 votes, and the results were   certified   the day before the Gettysburg panel met.

At the panel hearing, Stenstrom claimed that, on Election Day, he saw thumb drives, called vCards, “being uploaded to the voting machines by the voting machine warehouse supervisor on multiple occasions.” Those uploads resulted in 50,000 votes for Biden, he said.

Then, he   claimed , “as of today, 47 USB vCards are missing, and they’re nowhere to be found.”

Stenstrom did not provide any evidence that the cards were used to upload fraudulent votes or that Biden benefited from this purportedly illegal upload.

Delaware County officials explained to us that the vCards are used to transfer data from the paper-ballot scanning machines at each precinct to the central vote tabulating system. Uploading data from the vCards is part of the regular process for tallying votes — there’s nothing untoward about it. Other parts of his claim are also false, they said.

“The allegation that someone from the voting machine warehouse uploaded anything from any vCards is utterly false,” Adrienne Marofsky, the county’s spokeswoman, told us by email.

Nobody from the warehouse is trained to use the software that uploads the data from the vCards, she said. That job is done by staff in the bureau of elections department or the information technology liaison.

“This is not a system designed for mass use and it is not intuitive such that a new user with no training on the system could manage to navigate their way through it,” she wrote, noting that it’s possible Stenstrom might have mistaken the IT liaison for a warehouse worker.

Likewise, Marofsky said, “the report of 47 ‘missing’ vCards is false.”

It’s not uncommon for some vCards to be delivered after Election Day, she said.

“Within a day or so after Election Day, the vCards that had not been returned on election night were accounted for,” Marofsky said. “A number of them were simply left in the scanners by the local election board and were recovered when the scanners (which were put in sealed rolling carts called ‘cages’ at the end of the day on Election Day) were returned to the voting machine warehouse.”

Marofsky also noted that there are two fail-safes if a vCard were to be lost — the vote scanners’ hard drives hold the original data and the paper ballots are held in sealed, numbered bags in case they need to be rescanned.

Beyond that, Marofsky said, “Stenstrom’s allegations rely on the proposition that the Board of Elections staff was working in league with the Democratic Party to engage in a mass fraud. That theory makes absolutely no sense when one considers the fact that: (1) the Chief Clerk of the Bureau of Elections has worked in that position for Delaware County approximately 15 years, 14 of them under Republican rule… (2) the Director of the County Voter Registration Office has worked for the County for approximately 20 years, 19 of them under Republican rule… (3) the IT liaison to the Bureau of Elections has worked in that capacity for many years, all of them prior to 2020 under Republican rule.”

“These individuals—not Democratic partisans—ran the election in Delaware County and handled the counting/tallying of the votes in Delaware County. It is simply absurd to propose that after years and years of running elections under Republican administrations in Delaware County, they all suddenly became Democratic fraudsters overnight,” Marofsky said.

Also, the results of the 2020 election in Delaware County are on par with the results from 2016.

The county’s turnout increased 10% (there was a 16% increase   nationally ), so there were more ballots. But the parties maintained roughly the same share of the vote.   In 2016 ,  Hillary Clinton received 60%,  while Trump received 37%.  In 2020 , Biden received 63%,  while Trump received 36%.

‘Non-Resident Voters’ Claim Raised in Two Failed Lawsuits

Claim:   “Non-resident voters. Matt Braynard’s Voter Integrity Project estimates that 20,312 people who no longer met residency requirements cast ballots in Georgia. Biden’s margin is 12,670 votes.”

Facts:   This claim comes from yet another failed lawsuit.

It was included in an   expert report   for a   case   brought in Georgia state court aimed at decertifying the election results.

The person giving the report was Matt Braynard, who   worked   on Trump’s 2016 campaign and then   ran   a voter registration nonprofit and a consulting firm that   promises   to “deploy voter data on behalf of your cause or candidate.” Those two organizations   shared  an   office   in Washington, D.C., and the nonprofit’s tax-exempt status was   revoked   in May for failing to file its 990 forms.

In his report, Braynard claimed that thousands of illegal votes were counted in Georgia’s election.

He determined that   20,312 “absentee or early” ballots were cast by voters who didn’t satisfy the residency requirements  by comparing Georgia’s list of voters with a national change-of-address database and other states’ voter rolls, according to the  report . But Braynard didn’t explain how he had verified that the voters on the state’s list were the same as those on the other lists he was using.

Judge Jane Barwick   dismissed   the case on a technical issue — the plaintiff had sued the wrong people — in a   ruling   from the bench on Dec. 7.

The same   report   was submitted in another, similar lawsuit filed in federal court in Georgia. In that case, an   expert rebuttal   submitted by   Democrats   who joined the case said that Braynard’s claims didn’t meet scientific standards.

“Recent academic research on attempts to match voter registration records to other state’s voter files or to national lists, such as NCOA has shown that this task can be prone to high rates of error,” wrote   Stephen Ansolabehere   in his rebuttal. Ansolabehere is a professor of government at Harvard University and an expert on elections.

“Crosscheck, a collaboration of 28 states, matches people across states based on first  name, last name, and date of birth. This approach has been determined to be unreliable because it yields a very high number of incorrect matches,” he wrote. “One   study   found that Crosscheck’s methodology identified almost 3 million ‘matching individuals who voted twice nationwide.’ All but 600 of these records were deemed to be false positives, in which the method says two people are the same but in fact they are not. For those 600 other cases, it could not be determined whether they were or were not the same individual.

“The Crosscheck experience suggests that it is quite easy to link records incorrectly when matching voter files to national lists (such as NCOA) or other states’ registration databases. This example underscores the need to disclose algorithms and provide evidence that there are no large numbers of false positives and false negatives. Matching on name and date of birth, as was done using Crosscheck, will likely produce huge numbers of false positives,” Ansolabehere wrote.

Judge Timothy Batten   dismissed   that case, also   citing   technical issues — standing and venue — on Dec. 7.

No Evidence of ‘R ecord Numbers of Dead People Voting’

Claim:   Serious ‘chain of custody’ breakdowns. Invalid residential addresses. Record numbers of dead people voting. Ballots in pristine condition without creases, that is, they had not been mailed in envelopes as required by law.”

Facts:   This claim is both vague and broad.

We’ve already addressed more specific allegations that ballots were cast on behalf of deceased voters in Pennsylvania.   In one story, we  explained  that   experts say there are  some cases  in each election in which   a relatively small number of people  die   in the period between when they sen d  in a mail-in ballot and Election Day. While there may be some instances of fraud, experts told us that the scale of it wouldn’t impact the outcome of an election.

In another   story , we explained that a claim alleging more than 21,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania were dead had actually originated in a lawsuit brought by a conservative group that failed to convince a federal judge in October that its list of deceased voters was accurate.

CISA has also explained that this persistent allegation is largely unfounded.

“Taken out of context, some voter registration information may appear to suggest suspicious activity, but are actually innocuous clerical errors or the result of intended data practices,” the federal agency   explained on its webpage   debunking election rumors. “For example, election officials in some states use temporary placeholder data for registrants whose birth date or year is not known (e.g., 1/1/1900, which makes such registrants appear to be 120 years old). In other instances, a voting-age child with the same name and address as their deceased parent could be misinterpreted as a deceased voter or lead to clerical errors.”

As for the claim that some ballots were suspect because they were “in pristine condition,” that appears to have come from an   affidavit   submitted in a failed lawsuit aimed at overturning the election results in Georgia. Like the other evidence submitted in the case, it   didn’t convince   the federal judge hearing the case.

No ‘Statistical Anomalies’ in Georgia

Claim:   Statistical anomalies. In Georgia, Biden overtook Trump with 89 percent of the votes counted. For the next 53 batches of votes counted, Biden led Trump by the same exact 50.05 to 49.95 percent margin in every single batch. It is particularly perplexing that all statistical anomalies and tabulation abnormalities were in Biden’s favor. Whether the cause was simple human error or nefarious activity, or a combination, clearly something peculiar happened.”

Facts:   There was no anomaly.

The claim appears to be based on a   post   from the Gateway Pundit, a partisan website, which published data it characterized as “inconceivable” and indicative of “fraud.”

The data showed that, as the   Spectator   story says, Biden maintained a lead with 50.05% of the vote while Trump held 49.95%   over the course of about an hour of ballot counting in Georgia.

But that’s to be expected, Charleen Adams, a research fellow at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, told FactCheck.org in an interview.

“What they’re calling an anomaly is statistically normal,” Adams said. She   examined   similar claims that misinterpreted the same type of data about other states.

In the Georgia example, the   data   — for which Gateway Pundit didn’t disclose the source — shows information for batches of ballots counted on the night of Nov. 6.

That’s three days after the election, when most of the counting was complete. With cumulative data like this, it’s normal to see small differences in the percent shares of votes between candidates at that late point in the process, Adams explained.

In contrast to the earlier days of counting — when there are relatively few votes included in the total and there can be wide fluctuations in the lead or deficit held by a certain candidate as new batches of ballots are counted — the later days show the cumulative, almost complete vote total when the margins between the candidates have tightened and each new batch of ballots has a shrinking impact on the total balance.

The Gateway Pundit data shows tallies from one of the later days, when 89% of Georgia’s ballots had been counted and each new batch of votes did little to shift the already established balance.

“So, there’s not an anomaly in the data,” Adams said. “They’ve misinterpreted cumulative data.”

Caitlin Quinn and Katie Busch contributed to this report.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.26  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thomas @3.4.25    2 weeks ago
In Pennsylvania, state law  requires   mail-in ballots to be received by Election Day in order to be counted. But a state Supreme Court   ruling   in September extended the deadline to Nov. 6 for the 2020 election, as requested by Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf’s administration.

My favorite, which makes my case!  The state Supreme Court had no right to override the PA State Legislature. The Constitution provides that only State Legislatures make election laws!

When your source needs to quote the Gateway Pundit you know you're on weak ground.

BTW even the title is bogus. There was no claim of fraud. It is a list of peculiar issues.

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.4.27  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.26    2 weeks ago

YOU DID NOT MAKE YOUR CASE

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.4.28  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.23    2 weeks ago

Patrick Basham is a crackpot tobacco apologist who has been accused of faking his PhD. 

Maybe exaggerating some of the above hearsay is small potatoes compared to  faking a PhD for the BMJ

President Trump finally found someone serious-sounding to back his baseless claims of massive U.S. election fraud, tweeting on Sunday that the “best pollster in Britain wrote this morning that this clearly was a stolen election.” Unfortunately for Trump, the man in question, Patrick Basham, is actually a tobacco industry apologist who was accused of faking his academic history in the British Medical Journal . After Basham wrote a piece in the BMJ downplaying the obesity epidemic , a British professor responded in the journal saying that Basham had never received a PhD from Cambridge University as he had claimed. Basham, who was once an adjunct scholar at the libertarian Cato Institute, has recently been writing for the British tabloid the Sunday Express . The director of the little-known Democracy Institute—which says it is based in Washington, D.C., and London—claimed before the election that Trump would win in a landslide. On Sunday, Basham claimed in his latest column that widespread fraud was the only reasonable explanation for why his outlandish prediction had proven to be so badly wrong.

I would take Basham's theories with a whole lot of salt ...

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.4.29  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.26    2 weeks ago
The state Supreme Court had no right to override the PA State Legislature. The Constitution provides that only State Legislatures make election laws!

That remains a states right issue for the state to work out. Not Massachusetts or Texas.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.4.30  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.26    2 weeks ago
When your source needs to quote the Gateway Pundit you know you're on weak ground.

Or spectacularly open minded...

BTW even the title is bogus.

No, the title of the article is the title of the article.

There was no claim of fraud. It is a list of peculiar issues.

No Fraud?  Or Basham just avoided the word "fraud" while laying out his case?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.31  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @3.4.29    2 weeks ago
That remains a states right issue for the state to work out.

Not if the Constitution says that only State Legislatures make state election laws.

 U.S. Const. Art. II, § 1, cl. 2 (“Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, [the] Number of Electors” to which it is entitled). 

The fact that this transgression has taken place without anything being done about it should concern everyone.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.4.32  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @3.4.30    2 weeks ago

He didn't claim fraud, nor did he give evidence of fraud. You don't need to do either to note that something unusual - like saying that Biden seemed to get most support in exactly the places he specifically needed it.

I realize that you'd like me to argue election fraud, but I'm not.

 
 
 
Split Personality
3.4.33  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.4.32    2 weeks ago

Potato / Potatoe.

 
 
 
devangelical
3.5  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago

trump just wants the election investigated, audited, and recounted until he becomes the winner. it's a typical frivolous legal stall tactic of his. process servers will probably outnumber the press corps the first time he steps into the public domain as a regular citizen. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.6  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago

And where is any sort of court admissible evidence to support your delusional statements..... Oh that's right there isn't any.

 
 
 
Ender
4  Ender    2 weeks ago

So this dick says it all started (their election fraud bullshit) because they could not find anything against Hunter Biden.

Who in the hell are the idiots that vote people like this piece of trash into office?

He is lying and making things up and then gets pissed when called on it.

Guess what, Fuck You Johnson.

 
 
 
MalamuteMan
5  MalamuteMan    2 weeks ago

BRAVO to Chuck Todd!!!!

Rough seas ahead... 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MalamuteMan @5    2 weeks ago

Agreed on both accounts.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 weeks ago

Best line in the interview was "Are you going to investigate the moon landing too?" LMAO!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6    2 weeks ago

My favorite is still when Todd asked Abrams how such a great candidate as herself is not running

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1    2 weeks ago

Vic, 

That was clearly partisan if that is your point. It still doesn't mean that the rest of the earlier interview was wrong.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

Yes, that is my point. Therefore Todd shouldn't be calling the kettle black!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.2    2 weeks ago

Vic,

A person can be biased and still not be wrong about something. Voting against the election is madness at this point. Even the NY Post has said this.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.3    2 weeks ago

There is a big difference between voting against the election and having the last election looked at. The election is over and Biden will be certified as the winner. The 2020 election needs to be dissected, not to overturn it, but to learn from it!

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.5  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.4    2 weeks ago

There ya go..start a petition.  maybe it will turn into a full time job, or hobby.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.5    2 weeks ago

No need. With or without a commission, I'm sure that one day they will write books about the election of 2020 and the great pandemic that the left fell in love with.

 
 
 
Ender
6.1.7  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.6    2 weeks ago

It will also be in the history books donald on tape trying to coerce a secretary of state into changing the results of an election.

You actually think history will look kindly on his antics?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.6    2 weeks ago
and the great pandemic that the left fell in love with.

Vic, 

That is a horrible comment. The pandemic happened because of events that went on in China. The left, right and in between didn't and don't want it. To imply that the left loves it, is just wrong on so many levels. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
6.1.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.8    2 weeks ago

Perrie, there is another layer to Vic's comment. He thinks that Trump was absolutely perfect except for the pandemic. He sees the pandemic as the only thing that keeps Trump's name off the list of great presidents. 

This is total nonsense. If the pandemic never even existed Trump would still be the worst president of all time. We are seeing even more evidence of this fact every day now. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.10  Split Personality  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.8    2 weeks ago
Vic,  That is a horrible comment.

[deleted,] horrible statements about strangers he makes assumptions about here weekly.

 
 
 
Kavika
6.1.11  Kavika   replied to  Split Personality @6.1.10    2 weeks ago

[deleted.] Same old shit from him.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.12  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ender @6.1.7    2 weeks ago

I think history will also reveal who recorded that call.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.13  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.8    2 weeks ago
To imply that the left loves it, is just wrong on so many levels. 

I'm sorry Perrie, but I firmly believe that. 

You do recall what Jane Fonda said about it: "The coronavirus was God's gift to the left."

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.14  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.12    2 weeks ago

As many calls as you've made for transparency, you should be sending flowers and a thank you note to whoever recorded that call.  It was most enlightening, and rendered the Trump administration much more transparent.  Kudos to them.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.15  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.9    2 weeks ago
Perrie, there is another layer to Vic's comment. He thinks that Trump was absolutely perfect except for the pandemic.

What do you mean "except for?"

I thought he did ok during the pandemic. Don't tell me democrats believe their own campaign propaganda?

For anybody who wasn't paying attention this past year:

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.16  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.14    2 weeks ago

Then they should stand up and take credit. Whoever they are, they/he/she may also get a nice job from CNN.

[deleted]

[Talk later.]

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.17  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.16    2 weeks ago

Scared?  Nah.  I have a job.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.18  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.17    2 weeks ago

That's ok, I found somebody who is up to it.

 
 
 
devangelical
6.1.19  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.18    2 weeks ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Tessylo
6.1.20  Tessylo  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.8    2 weeks ago

He's called us vermin and worse . . . . 

 
 
 
devangelical
6.1.21  devangelical  replied to  devangelical @6.1.19    2 weeks ago

... right on cue.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.22  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.13    2 weeks ago
You do recall what Jane Fonda said about it: "The coronavirus was God's gift to the left."

That's whats wrong with your beliefs.  You believe Jane Fonda is someone significant enough that any people listen to her.

She isn't.  She represents one person, herself.

If you think otherwise, your should be charging her rent.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.23  Vic Eldred  replied to  Split Personality @6.1.22    2 weeks ago

In no way was my opinion based on her lone statement. It was based on how democrats used the pandemic to create a false narrative to claim that Trump didn't take the pandemic seriously and they used it to challenge & change election laws in battleground states and they used it to enforce devastating measures on small business & working people and they used it for virtue signaling over masks etc.  There is no question in my mind how they feel deep down about the pandemic.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
6.1.24  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.23    2 weeks ago
It was based on how democrats used the pandemic to create a false narrative to claim that Trump didn't take the pandemic seriously

The only "false narrative" was the one Trump fed the American people while behind closed doors admitting to the real threat. All the MSM did was play the tapes, rational thinking persons understood immediately that the President lied and downplayed the threat for his own personal political gain.

 
 
 
Thomas
6.1.25  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.23    2 weeks ago
There is no question in my mind how they feel deep down about the pandemic.

I would imagine they feel that the pandemic has been horrible, just as most thinking people should. 

....create a false narrative to claim that Trump didn't take the pandemic seriously

Oh, he took the pandemic seriously: He recognized that it might hurt his chances to get reelected. That is probably the only way he took it seriously.  Instead of saying that the pandemic was serious, he told the population at large that it was "Just a flu" and would disappear. Wait! Let Me Check! .... Nope. Still hasn't disappeared. 

...used it to challenge & change election laws in battleground states

Not in just battleground states were the election laws adjusted because the people, lawmakers and court system realized that some people might not want to cast their ballot all thronged in together with everyone else. 

... used it to enforce devastating measures on small business & working people...

Ummmm, yeah. That is why everybody stayed at home, to kill their businesses, go broke and starve because some liberal said so. /s  Short story is that it worked to stop the initial outbreak. The outbreak gained steam when the restrictions were lifted. It loses steam when the restrictions are imposed again. Go figure. 

and they used it for virtue signaling over masks etc

God damned straight! Wear a mask!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
6.1.26  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.18    2 weeks ago
That's ok, I found somebody who is up to it.

Up to what?  Noticing that your desire for transparency is selective to a laughable extreme?  That as soon as the spotlight is on your guy, that suddenly transparency is a bad thing?  Yeah, I imagine most people are up to that.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
6.1.27  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @6.1.26    2 weeks ago
Up to what?

Doing their job.

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.28  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.23    2 weeks ago
There is no question in my mind how they feel deep down about the pandemic.

And no question in my mind about how wrong you are, again.

Did you notice that Boris Johnson had to shut down a whole nation?

You think anyone is happy about that or that it's some deep global Democrat plot?

Let go of the cactus !

 
 
 
Gsquared
7  Gsquared    2 weeks ago

The investigation into whether Johnson has a brain has been concluded.  Final result:  DOA

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
7.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Gsquared @7    2 weeks ago

LMAO!!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
9  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

I have to laugh at these right wingers complaining about what a "hack" Chuck Todd is. 

How about this perspective , he's right. 

The media has been far far far too easy on Trump and his followers for 5 years. Its about time someone called out this insanity on the part of Trump and his cult followers. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
9.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @9    2 weeks ago
The media has been far far far too easy on Trump and his followers for 5 years

I'll leave that one for the readers!!!!!

 
 
 
devangelical
9.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.1    2 weeks ago
I'll leave that one for the readers!!!!!

... yeah, you do that, because the voters have already spoken.

trump = loser, a really bad one ...

 
 
 
Tessylo
9.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @9.1.1    2 weeks ago

The whiniest little bitch of all time.  

 
 
 
Kavika
10  Kavika     2 weeks ago

What we have is a whiny loser, Trump and those that can't accept that they voted for a loser, and those republican politicians like Cruz and Johnson that have NO PROOF but continue to attack our institutions. 

 

 
 
 
Gsquared
11  Gsquared    2 weeks ago

The only election fraud that needs to be conducted is into Trump trying to intimidate, extort and solicit a criminal conspiracy revealed on his taped phone conversation with the Secretary of Georgia just released this morning.   You can hear the voice of the criminal subversive, Donald Trump, trying to initiate a coup.  

Any Republican Senator or House member who continues to support Trump will henceforth be forever known as an AINO -- American In Name Only.

 
 
 
Gsquared
11.2  Gsquared  replied to  Gsquared @11    2 weeks ago

Trump needs to resign immediately.  His grotesque, obscene, frontal assault on American democracy should be referred to the Georgia Attorney General and DOJ for prosecution.

 
 
 
devangelical
11.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Gsquared @11.2    2 weeks ago
Trump needs to resign immediately.

that could be the next made for TV political melodrama. he's probably stalling while ignorantly waiting to see if his legislative butt kissers actually can overturn an election, while he tries to negotiate the terms of a pardon for himself and his family of grifters by pence.  

 
 
 
Gsquared
11.2.2  Gsquared  replied to  devangelical @11.2.1    2 weeks ago

A pardon from Pence will not save him from prosecution for violation of Georgia state laws.  

 
 
 
JBB
12  JBB    2 weeks ago

Isn't conspiring to subvert our elections treasonous?

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
12.1  Duck Hawk  replied to  JBB @12    2 weeks ago

why yes, yes it is. jrSmiley_26_smiley_image.gif

 
 
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