The Forlorn Hope For "Unity"
Suddenly "unity" is a national buzz word. Biden wants to bring us unity. Conservatives say Biden can't bring us unity , because he's senile or something.
Stipulating that various people may have differing definitions of unity, and some people will accept whatever "unity" develops as sufficient, I think the yearning for national unity any time in the foreseeable future is destined to go unfulfilled.
I will put it like this - "unity" of a people requires almost by definition that the vast majority of said people have the same basic experience of reality. We don't have that at this time in America. For example - even after the events of Jan 6th 2/3 of Republicans still approve of Donald Trump. Something like 93% of the people who voted for trump in November say in a new Axios poll that they would vote for him again in 2024.
Other very recent polling has shown that something like 65% of Republicans say that Trump has no responsibility for the Capitol riot/insurrection.
If the country were recovering from say, a Mitt Romney presidency, "unity" going forward might be a reasonable goal. Trying to to leave Trump behind in the name of "unity" , when tens of millions remain in thrall to his cult leadership , is not only extreme wishful thinking, such delusion could actively serve to limit what can be accomplished by the Biden presidency. Biden needs to act like he won, and act from a position of power, with the understanding that he will need a few Republican votes in most instances to achieve his plans. But I think he can get those votes without meeting trumpsters halfway.
"Unity" in the present climate would seem to include acceptance that "both sides" have been equally at fault. I truly hope that Democrats , and all people of good will, will not insist on such nonsense. The drastic problems that have erupted over the past five years can be laid at the feet of Trump and his supporters, who have been hell bent on creating a separate reality for themselves. A reality where they are eternal victims of "The Squad" and Black Lives Matter, and "Leftist Media" .
Are the pages of Newstalkers representative of the population at large? Probably to a good extent. I dont see why Newstalkers wouldnt be representative. What have we seen here? Until the recent seeming absence of some of the conservative commenters, we have seen for years a strong approval of Trump, even though he has always been a confirmed liar, crook, bigot, moron, and cheat. We still see on a daily basis criticisms of Biden and Harris that are based on far right internet fantasies. We still see a reluctance to make a final and crushing criticism of Trump.
As I see it, almost all of the calls, now, for "unity" are coming from right of center (maybe a little from left of center). People want to "move on". I dont think there will be, or should be, any moving on until Trump supporters admit, very plainly, that they made a mistake and they are sorry for inflicting this insanity on America for the past five years. Not "both sides", them.
If they reject this civic duty, then we will have to wait on "unity".
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As I see it, almost all of the calls, now, for "unity" are coming from right of center (maybe a little from left of center). People want to "move on". I dont think there will be, or should be, any moving on until Trump supporters admit, very plainly, that they made a mistake and they are sorry for inflicting this insanity on America for the past five years. Not "both sides", them.
If they reject this civic duty, then we will have to wait on "unity".
I dont think there will be, or should be, any moving on until Trump supporters admit, very plainly, that they made a mistake and they are sorry for inflicting this insanity on America for the past five years.
Never gonna happen JR. The hate filled Democrats lit the fires that have led to the current disunity. You can wait until the cows come home, but apologies won't be forthcoming
Sadly, I believe you, Greg. I doubt I will ever hear "Trump supporters admit, very plainly, that they made a mistake and they are sorry for inflicting this insanity on America for the past five years."
As I said in a letter to my Trump loving nephew...
Donald Trump is by far the worst president this country has ever had. He has brought us closer to civil war than we have been since 1865. He is a divider. As I have said before, I do genuinely try to avoid being hateful. But with Trump, it would be dishonest for me to say I don't hate him... I absolutely despise him. There are at least 74 million people that have fallen under his spell. I simple do not comprehend in any way what his followers find appealing about him. Perhaps it is just a way for them to express their disdain for liberal people like me. There was a time, not so very long ago, when people of differing ideologies would argue peacefully, and then at the end of the day find compromise. Things don't work that way with Trump. He demands unwavering loyalty... not to any particular principle... just to HIM!!!!! If he doesn't get that loyalty, then he will absolutely throw you under the bus. I'm not a big fan of Mike Pence, but I can say I do admire him for lawfully carrying out his duties when the electoral college votes were counted on Wednesday. Furthermore, I can sympathize with his reluctance to invoke the 25th amendment. Just doing his duty on Wednesday put him in grave jeopardy, probably his family as well. He has good cause to fear for his life. If he had invoked the 25th amendment, they would have had to put him in hiding with lifetime secret service protection. Many of Trumps followers are violent... if you are a Trump fan, well, that is your right... If so, I hope you don't share or condone the violence promulgated by many of his followers.
Is it not possible that every now and then there might be a Republican candidate that you would find unacceptable?
Unity is all lip service for the majority of tRump and his supporters.
Unity is overrated.
As any religious person knows, you cannot have unity without forgiveness, and you can't get forgiveness without repentance.
When you dont have an admission of wrongdoing, then you get what is starting now. Even though the impeachment of Trump is only hours old there are already "center right' individuals saying that impeachment was an over reach. If there is no further violence, in a week or two we will be hearing that the capitol insurrection was only a minor inconvenience and that the rioters were merely over enthusiastic patriots.
I say FCK Unity till these Orange Clown Defenders fess up that they, and their ignorance, have set US back a decade or more. They cheered on his every move, know matter how STUPID, and or solely beneficial to the wealthy and large corporations. Biden should steamroll increased taxing of these large corporations ridiculously profiting from this pandemic, screwing US A ll by not paying fair enough wages, where as we must help pay THEIR employees via subsidies, and not honest enough to do the right things, as the rest of USALL suffer. Trump and the Republicans showed NO MERCY, Democrats HAVE to start showing the same resolve, as the results will benefit ALL, not Clubs so damn small.
Neither assertion is true.
Like when the price is finally paid for sedition and most who breached are in GITMO for 20-30 years including every scum rightwing politician who participated in this coup attempt. They could care less if they broke America as long as white supremacy prevails. Well guess what, that dog won't hunt! Not now, not ever again.
Sadly there is a couple of days left for pardons...
Well, I think this is why there's not been a swifter gathering of charges for the one's they've charged already and the one's yet to be uncovered and charged. I think once that pardon provision is no longer a threat, boom!
Sadly, Trump can word a blanket pardon that will include any and all actions taken at the Capitol on Jan. 6th.
I wonder who they have working on the wording and if they are thinking about the 'conspiracy to commit' charges that are hovering over so many people's heads. That conspiracy and those actions have been ongoing for months. There were people all over the country in direct communication with insurgents while it happened.
So they're going to have to be all encompassing and paint with a very broad brush if they want to cover all their minions asses.
I've not heard this before. Certainly disconcerting but I am not sure the GOP or his lawyers will not try to stop him. How can he pardon those he now says had no business of doing this?
I think right now, they're all trying their best to curb his appetite for stupidity. Whether that works or not, we'll see. Hasn't worked so far.
It's Trump!
yeah, you've got that right. I can only hope the big boys at the Pentagon have taken away his keys to the nukes. That IS Trump. His narcissism is so beyong the pale that I have no doubt that fucktwat would nuke to end the world because that would be his biggest show on earth and if he's going down, so is everyone. Tomorrow is 5 more days till his threat is over. I have never wanted time to pass so quickly. I am so hoping Karma is still with us.
Nothing to repent.
Is what an unscrupulous building owner might think who hired an arsonist to burn their building down for the insurance money, bought them the gas and matches, and then acts shocked and horrified when people die in the fire. "Well he was supposed to evacuate the premises, no body was supposed to get hurt... It's not my fault...".
That’s about as realistic as asking me unify with NAMBLA.
Seems to be a very high level of unity. Everyone is protesting the system, aren't they? Everyone is rioting, aren't they?
What has been happening around the country over the last decade has finally directly affected the political class. The political class is now experiencing what people on the street are experiencing.
Walking in the shoes of another is supposed to be the first step toward empathy and unity.
You sound glad the Capital was attacked, people died and politicians are in fear for their lives.
I'm just waiting for him to blame us for this shitstain of a 'president' and how it's all our fault.
At least a dozen Republican members of Congress got up yesterday during the impeachment debate and said that the impeachment of Trump will hurt national unity or increase "partisan division", maybe even cause further violence.
It is like an arsonist standing up in court and telling the judge that unless the charges against him are dropped the community he burned down will never be able to "heal".
Or, my group, the Republican Arsonists of America, are going to burn the entire community, unless the impeachment is ceased, Fck them, throw him out and let them burn their bridges, as this is so pathetic. What would happen if FOREIGN Terrorists were dealt with this way...?
Exactly John! It is time to address being brought justice of this first. I know I am not about to forgive or forget or play nice any time soon. These RW politicians aren't looking for redemption, they're looking to scapegoat their way out of this knowing full well, their party is responsible for not standing up to the lies of election fraud. Many of their conservatives told them so. But no, they are so far up the butt of Trump cult, they can't take the moral highground of principle over party.
Republican politicians would like nothing more than for the American people to "forgive and forget" what has been happening in this country for the past 5 years.
The vast majority of us "deplorables" on the Right don't give a fuck what the left turds think.
Resisting Biden every day in every way will be standing order going forward
"Unity" can't occur until progressives acknowledge their misdeeds, lies, support for mob violence etc as well. How far does one's head need to be up their ass to believe the position we are in 2021 is solely the result of one side?
From spending years lying about Trump's imagined "collusion" with Russia, for lying to the Courts in order to spy on Trump's allies, for lying to the public about the FISA process, for justifying violent mobs destroying cities, for hypocrisy about Covid etc, got their hypocrisy over challenging elections in Congress and claiming they were stolen every time they lose.... Until the left recognizes that they too have unclean hands, no understanding is possible.
And if the posters on this site are typical of progressives at large, that sort of self awareness will be impossible for them to attain.
Are you just going to mischaracterize whats been going on for the past 5 years and think it's ok ?
Ok, No unity for you.
Start with FISA. You had no problem justifying the FBI lying to the FISA courts to spy on American citizen, nor Adam Schiff's bald faced lies about the FISA process or his imaginary evidence of collusion he kept promising and never delivered. Remember the witch hunt against Nunes for authoring what turned out to be an accurate summary of the situation? Did progessives ever apologize for gaslighting the public about FISA?
Donald Trump and his lackeys have been saying for 4 years that the "Russia investigation" of him and his campaign was a hoax. For a long period of time he was saying this virtually every day.
The investigation of Trump's campaign was never a hoax. The Mueller Report makes it crystal clear that Trump's campaign had inappropriate contact with Russians. Mueller himself did not object when it was suggested to him at a congressional hearing that Trump could be indicted for obstruction of justice (related to the "Russia hoax") once he was out of office.
Where is the Barr/ Durham report Sean? The one that was going to expose how Trump was the real victim in all this? Oh yeah, Barr resigned because Trump is such a monumental asshole.
Did Progressives do anything at all wrong in the last four years? Even a feel a little guilt about championing the jailed porn lawyer who claimed Kavanaugh was leading rape gangs in high school?
Avenatti? We dropped him as soon as news came out that he was unethical.
You've known for at least five years that Donald Trump is unethical . When did you drop defending him?
So nothing then? Not a single thing wrong in four years?
We've been through this John. There was no conspiracy. Trump was not working with Putin. Ask Mueller. IT was all a lie.
t Trump could be indicted for obstruction of justice (related to the "Russia hoax") once he was out of offic
Those are alleged process crimes, not evidence of any actual collusion with Russia. Neither Trump nor a single member of his team was indicted for conspiring with Russia in regard to the election.
Where is the Barr/ Durham report Sea
Who needs it? Did you read the IG report on FISA ? No wonder you want to change the topic.
I'm sure "the left" has made many mistakes and took positions i dont agree with over the past four years.
What I dont do is say both sides are equally to blame and we ALL have to say everyone is equally at fault for what happened to this country. Because both sides are not equally at fault. The people who voted for (twice) the most unqualified presidential candidate in American history and supported him through thick and thin (and through 25,000 lies) are the ones who are mainly to blame.
The issue about "Russia" is, were the investigations of Trump and his campaign justified in 2016 and 2017? The answer is resoundingly yes.
What did Trump do, while in office, that was unethical?
To blame for what? It appears you had no problem with his policies, just his personality
If it were not for Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton, we would not have had a Donald Trump.
[deleted]
[And we thank you.]
Thank you for the ridiculous comment. The fact that you objected to Obama or Hillary Clinton forced you to accept someone who was a known pathological liar, crook, bigot, moron, and cheat? Really? What was wrong with the other 15 Republican candidates in 2016?
"I've been waiting for someone to blame this shitstain of a 'president' on us."
Excuse me, I've had too much coffee today, I need to go and take a . . . . I used to say I'm going to go and take a tRump, [deleted]
If you're still trying to keep score about blame, then you aren't interested in peace. You're still trying to win. You have to want peace above the other things you want. If you can't move past that; if you can't bury your pride and ego, then any peace you might potentially accept has no virtue and is meaningless.