The world should physically intervene in Ukraine
Standing by watching Putin's invasion of Ukraine is becoming unbearable to me.
Ukraine did nothing to Russia. This invasion is completely unjustified and a blatant violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty, not to mention a violation of everything good and just in the world, so here's the question:
Why can't the world go to Ukraine's aid — physically, militarily?
It doesn't have to be an official NATO action. When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, many nations (not just the USA) intervened militarily and expelled them, and it wasn't about NATO.
The world can and should do something like that again. It doesn't require a declaration of war on Russia itself, just an expulsion from Ukraine. There's nothing wrong with standing up to naked aggression like this, in fact it's the right thing to do. Innocent people are being killed – murdered – by Putin.
This is not OK.
I say the world needs to respond with actual force. Every nation that has condemned Putin's actions should be invited to rapidly deploy relevant units to the area, Poland maybe, and then get in there and save the friggin' day!
How can everyone just stand on the sidelines and watch? Ukraine (a former constituent member of the USSR, no less) is a young, albeit troubled democracy, and they want to STAY a democracy. They want to stay free. This is important!
While appreciative of sanctions and things like the Javelin anti-tank weapons, they've been pleading for more help on almost every news camera they can find. I say the world should give it to them, pronto.
Does anyone else agree with me on this? Not a declaration of war on Russia itself, and not an official NATO-led action, but a rapid deployment of a global coalition strong enough to expel Putin's forces from Ukraine.
Putin's nukes should not be considered an absolute pass for him to do anything he wants, especially evil shit like this. He knows damn well that using them will bring them down on himself in return. MAD still exists.
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"Russian warship... Go f*** yourself!"
Right up there with "Nuts!"
Shouldn't the world come together and stop this shit? How can we just let this go? How can the free world just let Ukraine go?
russia has plenty of supporters of autocracy...
That video is so poignant.
I just saw a story about how Tucker Carlson is suddenly acting like his previous statements never happened, and is now condemning Putin and calling the invasion a big deal.
I saw that too...typical!
At first he went on and on about how "its not our fight"...and how the Ukraine is not important..and why should we support Ukraine over Russia, And we aren't in any alliance with Ukraine.
Yada, yada, yada.
And of course the usual suspects on NT echoed his sentiments.
Then as it became more and more obvious how barbaric the Russians are (under Putin)...it started to get a bit embaressing for For Tucker Cuckhold...and for Trump as well.
I've started watching Fox news recently. And their turnaround was amazing! From totally "This fight is not our fight".."None of our business".. a few whaddaboudisms of course...and occasional praise for all the wonderful things Putin has done... to sending mixed messages...
And the I was watching Fox news yesterday...and it blew my mind! Some of them were actually reporting the facts! It seemed like an actual news channel!
I saw on a Ukrainian parliament member's Twitter feed (Kira Rudik) that she talked to Fox News today. I didn't watch the clip, but it struck me as ironic and made me wonder if she's aware of some of the messaging Fox was putting out just a couple of days ago, like the vile crap Tucker Carlson was saying right after the invasion.
The world?
Biden begged China; and China flipped him off and gave all of the intelligence they received from the US on Russia to the Russians. China wants Taiwan and expects Russia to support them when the time comes.
There are other countries that support Russia and don't support US/NATO hegemony. Yes, believe it or not US/NATO isn't loved by several countries throughout the world.
Of the countries listed Israel is the funniest. All that money from the US; and they still want to be impartial.
As for letting it go; why not take a long hard look on how "we" got here? The writing has been on the wall for a very long time; but career dumbasses in the US government and NATO countries refused to see it. For the past 40 years we have been flipped former Soviet block states to NATO, Countries that Democracies in name only; and that we would never support if it weren't to isolate Russia. Ukraine was a bridge too far. Flipping them to NATO would have given Russia an entire front of NATO countries. Remember when Kennedy almost started WWIII over the Cuban missile crisis? He forced Russia to back down. Think the US wouldn't do that again to Putin if he decided to give Cuba nukes, and advanced weapons to take down US aircraft, naval vessels, and armored vehicles?
Now on to the most worthless alliance ever NATO. This isn't a world problem- this is a Europe/NATO problem. Ukraine is one of those great "Democracy in name only" countries that we are supporting just because they are anti Russian. We will even tolerate their government's support of fascists; so long as they are anti Russian. Their government is corrupt to the core; but we are willing to ignore that as well. As for NATO; they are as worthless as a military body as ever. The US shouldn't have to deploy it's forces to the border countries; that is the responsibility of European members. Funny how those countries aren't screaming for NATO; but the US.
The US/NATO backed Putin into a corner; and are now shocked he is pushing back.
The world, yah, they don't give a shit about Ukraine. They will just be happy not to glow in the dark.
If we want to play what ifs.
Where was the US in supporting Syria when they were invaded by Iraqi ISIS/ISIL? Sure we supported, armed, and trained Anti Assad rebel forces against ISIS/ISIL; but we also took actions to cut off the Syrian government through sanctions and the UN. We also imposed sanctions against Russia when the entered Syria on Assad's side. Russia, Russia, Russia, I know. It is almost like we wanted to oust Assad rather than defeat ISIS/ISIL At least Hillary had the balls to state it. Things would have turned out great after that; because the US has had so much success in nation building./S
Of course we are great at ignoring conflicts if they don't concern us or our chief allies:
Of course we ignored Iran's backing of the Houthi rebels to overthrow the legitimate Yemen government; so why shouldn't we ignore Saudi Arabia retaliating in Yemen?
We left the Georgians out to dry when Putin invaded; but Ukraine- some want to go to war over.
I am sure I could point out several other conflicts that are far more deadly that the US has stayed out of.
I have no problem with those that want to fight Russia. Just fly to the nearest border country to Ukraine. Drop your all of your US identification in the nearest garbage bin (make sure there is a nice fire going); and cross the border. The Ukrainians have more than enough weapons, ammo, grenades, and how to make explosives pamphlets to give to anyone. I am sure if enough keyboard warriors do this Ukraine will be able to stop Russia in their tracks.
The Free World...
That's as far as I could get into your ridiculous screed.
NATO is the most important and successful military alliance in history. It was a huge deterrent against the Soviets during the Cold War, and Putin is still pulling his hair out over it today. In fact, it's had 100% success in protecting its member states from Russian aggression. Get a fucking clue, man. That's as good as it gets.
OMG. I am shocked!
I had thought that every country on earth-- and even every person-- was aware of the horrors of Russia's totalitarian government..and Putin's true nature.
But now you've told us the facts...which we never knew before!
Imagine-- there are actually some people on this planet who hate the U.S....and love Putin!
Many thanks for enlightening us!
(Do I really need the sarcasm label here...?)
Do you know why?
(Playing lawyer here for a few minutes
)
Actually I realized my question might not have been clear-- so let me re-phrase it:
Do you know why?
I favor that at the very least the world should be supplying them with high-tech offensive weapons and anything other that they would need to draw as much blood from the Russians that they can.
If anyone thinks that Putin will stop at the Ukraine they are, IMO, wrong. Look at his history going back to Georgia in 2008 where they still control 20% of an independent country, next the Crimea and now all of Ukraine. Or ask Chechen people.
Today he threatened Finland and Sweden.
IMO, Putin is less interested in NATO than in his legacy as the person that re-established the great Russian Empire.
I think air power combined with a robust ground supply of Ukrainian forces might actually be enough.
If several nations formed a coalition to control the skies over Ukraine, including air-to-ground attacks on Russian vehicles (starting with anti-air units), then the Ukrainians could be supplied with whatever weapons, fuel, and supplies they would need to mop up the rest by themselves. Ground troops from other nations might not even be needed.
If NATO had a no-fly zone over Ukraine that would really limit Russian power and give the Ukraine ground forces a chance to force Russia into bog downed offensive. Which is a loser for the Russians.
I would add that President Zelensky is showing immense courage as is his cabinet.
IMO getting weapons into the hands of the disaffected in russia, and especially belarus, would serve the purpose of creating an anti-putin insurgency on multiple fronts. putin was able to eliminate most of his detractors thru incarceration or death, obviously an accepted russian solution to domestic personnel issues. I doubt that putin was alone in those decisions. at some point the heat will be too great for other influential russians that can afford to be more free than the average russian, and don't want to give up their big fish/little pond lifestyles. once they all run their balance sheets, putin would be ill advised to touch any doorknobs or get too close to any windows above the 4th floor.
I hear you, but arming revolutionaries within Russia itself might be a bridge too far. For the time being, anyway.
creating a drone air force for ukraine would solve the russian air superiority problem. multiple defensive weapon platforms available with pilots far from the battlefield.
It's been inspirational. I even saw Poroshenko in central Kiev this morning, with what looked like a rag tag group of defenders armed only with Kalashnikovs and a couple of machine guns, ready to fight.
Members of the government, women included, and Zelenskyy himself have indeed been courageous. I wish somebody would do something for them on the ground.
Anoon dig... there are four million Ukrainians living in Russia at the moment..
An excellent source of discontentment within Russia itself..
Maybe, but is there time? Already-existing man-portable air defense weapons might be more practical. I'm not sure what's in the inventory these days, but things like Stingers.
Still, we could dominate the skies with planes already based in Europe long before we could get any anti-air weapons to Ukrainians on the ground, and they need air support against Russian tanks right now, this very minute.
You have a point there. Has anyone heard about protests in Russia today? I know they happened yesterday, but I haven't yet heard about today. I'm hoping they grow to a massive scale. Putin can't arrest everybody.
NATO and the US have been sending Ukraine stinger anti-aircraft and Javelin anti-tank weapons since late January.
I have great respect for the guy who said he is not a soldier but would fight if he has to.
I knew about the javelins, but not the stingers. That's good to hear. We need to keep the supply going. I still wish wish someone would do more for them.
I'd like to volunteer about 700 revolutionaries from 1/6/21 that are currently involved with the US legal system. they all have experience in "taking their country back". give them back all their camo clothes and put them on a plane to the front. they can pick up a free AK to kill russians when they get there. if they live to the end of the war, they can consider their sentences served and go to the nearest US consulate, apply for a replacement passport or travel visa, and come back to america, pending DHS/FBI approval...
I would not trust them. They might defect or commit atrocities just for the sake of atrocities.
shhh... we'll tell the ukrainians to give them russian uniforms. we'll call them the tucker carlson brigade.
Wow, you seem big on volunteering others.
Why?
wow, you seem big on deflection. why?
Now that their orange god is besties with Putin, they most likely would take up Putin's cause to please Trump and go after the Ukrainians.
Sure as hell not going to volunteer himself. Most liberals look down on those that volunteer to protect this country.
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Which, when you think about it, is pretty far-fetched-- given the fact that not only is Sweden not a NATO memberr-- but that they been neutral for a long, long time. (Andeven during WWII they remained officially neutral)
No one is going to send combat forces into a country they dont have a mutual self defense treaty with. It would be political suicide. I think a better idea would be to get Putin assassinated.
History disagrees with you. A lot.
Seems a bit cowardly and dishonorable to me. An out in the open ass-kicking is what Putin really needs, IMO.
I agree, but the expediency of Putin being assassinated sure is tempting.
If only some enterprising Russian with access would take one for the team, without us or NATO being involved at all...
Damn scruples.
as with all criminal organizations, there's always somebody farther down the table that thinks they're not getting a big enough piece of the pie. if it happens, putin will probably get his ticket punched by a russian intelligence agent he knows and trusts, with orders from the kremlin, an inside job.
I saw something on Facebook today, and I'm not sure how reliable it is, but it said that some Russian oligarchs' assets have already been greatly devalued. Putin's war has become a financial ball and chain to his richest friends.
Maybe..
You have to weigh the pros and cons.
There was an assassination plot on Hitler-- that came close to suceeding but failed.
Call the perps cowardly..even..dishonorable..if you like.
But I wonder if history would have been different (much better) if it succeeded?
How many innocent lives would have been saved?
Scruples?
Or a sort of unrealistic idealism?
Possibly.
You know, at this point, with the threat of a nuclear attack now out there, and Belarus and Chechnya joining in the aggression, I'm going to change my position. Putin needs killing. I am now for the expedient over the right. The stakes are too high for him to be allowed to live and possibly do this all over again, once this is all over.
He no longer has the support of his own country.
His officials are apologizing for the invasion.
Russia is ripe for a regime change.
The ante has certainly been upped.
I don't know how anyone from the West could pull it off, though, unless someone actually has plants in the Kremlin. If a sane Russian near him was in a position do it, I'd be all for it.
I'd say that's the best we could hope for.
No one? We didn't have mutual defense treaties with Iraq or Afghanistan. The point of wars is shattering old agreements and ultimately forcing new ones...
Or Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua and a few others if I recall.
I don't believe that we had a mutual defense pact with Kuwait when Iraq invaded. We had one after the war was over in 1991.
Yeah. But that 'mutual defense pact' had nothing to do with democracy. That was only for OIL. Remember?
Without a doubt it was all about oil.
With some of these other situations there was a unanimity within our country. If we were to send troops into Ukraine and let's say hundreds of Americans were killed there would be a tremendous political uproar in America. The last polling I saw showed well less than half of Americans want to see US troops in combat in Ukraine
Oh you were there? you know for a fact YOU were there for oil?
I know i wasnt there for oil , i was there because a despot tried to subjugate his neighbor to his will and take away their freedom of choice and chosen government .
So unless you were there in the first gulf war , i will kindly as one who was, ask you to shut your fucking mouth about what we who were, there for .
On that it might be better to keep your opinion to yourself even though you are entitled to one
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Aw hell, John. We have hundreds upon hundreds of Americans dying every week from COVID and gunshot wounds----and much of that could be prevented.
Freedom and democracy too often require ultimate sacrifice. The only question to be asked is, "Is it worth it?" I say it is.
As far as American polls----------Damn near half of (the Americans) believe in the 'stable genius' and think Stormy was an angel sent by gawd to comfort the orange one.
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Biden said from the beginning that we are not going to send combat troops into Ukraine and it was well-received within the United States . He's not going to change his mind now
What's happening in Ukraine today was completely predicted and forseen.
Maybe the US and NATO could set up a no-fly zone over part of the country but that's as far as it's going to go if it even goes that far
We do not need troops on the ground. Our air power would greatly weaken the Russian offensive.
I agree that it would have to get way worse to justify troops but also think we cannot and should not take options off the table while negotiating with Putin. He certainly is not...
First Gulf War.
You are no less a sucker than I was in Vietnam. Get off the chest pumping. We were used.
iraq invaded kuwait because they had a nicer beach, don't ya know...
I saw on the news that the Ukraine is a no fly zone now. They showed a computer simulation of planes in other air spaces but not one was over the Ukraine.
I would think taking a commercial flight over the ukraine could be a little bit dicey...
That is not true. Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields.
If you remember, after Iraq took control of Kuwait for a period of time the world did nothing. The Bush Administration asserted that the US did not have any defense agreements with Kuwait.
Then---and however---Iraq informed OPEC that whatever the price for OIL they would set, Iraq would put Kuwait OIL on the market for 2/3s the price. Very soon after that the stories began to appear of Iraqi atrocities, even including Iraqi soldiers going through Kuwaiti hospitals and bayoneting babies. Do you remember that?
And that less than half are MAGA.
Well in that case.. some people would argue that the world would be a better place if the allies allowed Saddam to be in power!
Exactly.
I've often been surprised of the "backward looking" analysis by many news commentators. They are looking at wars of the past-- where you had to send in soldiers (and risk large numbers of casualties).
Wars can now be fought-- and won-- from command posts far away-- AI advances have been amazing. You can send in smart missiles and/or drones from distant command posts without risking a single American life!
(Id there's a need for occupation after the war has been won, that's different-- but IMO after Putin's total conquest of the Ukraine most of his troops can leave-- he can put in place a puppet gov't consisting of Ukrainians...so if there's anuprising there Ukrianian flunkies will lose their lves-- not Russians!)
Ya think?
But why on earth would we need to needlessly risk American lives?
He ought to change his mind. The one he's got now is not functioning properly
LETS GO BRANDON!
No. A Putin on trial for stealing hundreds of billions for himself and his oligarch friends from the Russian people would be much more fun------and a deadly blow to autocrats everywhere.
And when the embezzling trials are over there are numerous charges of murder that could be brought against Putin. And after that there are probably charges of international war crimes that could be brought against him. In the end, Putin needs good lawyers. Guiliani and Powell come to mind.
One well aimed Hades bomb over the Kremlin would do the trick.
More fun?
I wonder if the Ukrainians feel that way?
(After all, they're the ones who are suffering...not the armchair quarterbacks on NT!
I could be wrong, but my guess is that most Unkrianians would rather see him dead...
He already has a death sentence....cancer.
Not that I'm doubting you, but where did you hear that?
I googled it after a friend told me.
But that might not be quick enough for the Ukrainians who are actually under fire..as we speak!
That might explain why he's been sitting so far away from his ministers in the meetings shown on TV. It might be because he's being treated and is immunocompromised.
Someone with Covid needs to go cough on him.
Precisely. And specially to free the Russian people from an autocratic regime they do not deserve to live under. Navalny for president!
We know exactly where the Russian positions are. Cruise missiles, F-16s and F-18s with French, German, and British fighters and fighter bombers. Let them taste war.
And while we're at it----------------the hell with the corrupt/murderous Putin puppet regime in Belarus. Wipe it clean. Free the people of Belarus. Show the autocracies that the democracies have very-very sharp teeth and will slash and tear them asunder.
And where were all these feelings and opinions when Hamas rains missiles on the Israelis, and are committed to the destruction of Israel in their constitution and will not stop until they can rule "Palestine" from the river to the sea? The UN that has so obviously and consistently demonized Israel sheds tears for the Ukraine. Oh, wait, I almost forgot, Israel is the homeland of the JEWS and is majority JEWISH. .
Uh gee Buzz, the president of Ukraine is also Jewish. You know that, right?
As far as Hamas, they are simply religious nutcase terrorists. Religion can be evil.
I know Zelenskyy is Jewish, but his nation isn't. When the UN provides the respect and support for Israel that it does for the Ukraine, I'll find respect for the UN.
To me, the UN is a huge failure.
Too corrupt and gives in too easily to superpowers.
Religion is not the point here.
Democracy or autocracy is the point. The only point.
Couldn't agree more..
The UN does not differentiate between the political makeup of nations. Only Western nations are paranoid about the difference.
The UN (Useless Nations) is a politicized paper tiger! It has long outlived any usefulness it might once have had.
Uh-------------The UN and NATO are two different entities with two different objectives.
Well there are a lot of religious nutcases..worldwide.
The problem is..there is already a self-governing Palestinian entity-- and the terror group Hamas totally runs it!
(And the Gazan who live there and don't support their totalitarian government are tortured.. and then killed!)
So simply "nutcases"...well its not exactly all that simple...
Well, yes and no.
One of Putin's stated grievances against the Ukraine is that they are all druggies and Nazis.
(Of course that's a lie).
But what's a bit bizarre is that he's accusing them of being a Nazi controlled entity-- and their leader is actually a Jew!
(Which reflects more on Putin than anything else...and while some wars are about religion, in truth this war is not about religion at all).
The UN is as worthless as a ton of iron pyrite. The building and the land it sits on would be better utilized as a shelter and camp for New York's homeless.
69 years ago my parents took me to NYC and besides seeing the original cast Broadway productions of The King and I and Guys and Dolls, I toured the UN building, watched the iconic Krishna Menon speak to the General Assembly, and was so impressed and hopeful of its purpose. And now, what a disappointment. I have also previously not so long ago said that they should be kicked out of NYC and go back to Switzerland.
Yes, it is simple. Hamas is nutcases. And again, more proof that Theocratic ideals ruin government.
Putin is lying and he knows it. Thusly, if 'the lie' is believed by the many then that 'lie' is a success.
But I think Putin is losing. He may lose everything. And when he goes--------the orange one follows.
Buzz, President Zelensky is Jewish and lost family in the Holocaust.
Anoon..
And I didn't realise it appears Israel is an ally of Russia...
Be it "unconditional ally"..whatever that is meant to mean...
Putin 2016
At the end of World War Two, the Jewish people said that the Russians gave them life and the Americans gave them hope.
At the end of World War Two, the State of Israel did not exist. My comment was about the UN today, and not back when Partition was passed.
I understand all of that-------But I am not sure--or maybe I comprehend incorrectly---But it seems to me that your slant is non-committal non-intervention if an autocracy provokes and attacks a democracy with malice and false reason.
Am I correct? Or not?
You are not correct, First of all, I do not differentiate in a situation like this between a democracy and whatever you want to call one this ISN'T the same kind of government as the USA. What I question is whether or not there was malice or no reason. Please note that my brain has two sides, left and right. As well, our very first lecture when we started law school was given by the Dean. What he told us was that if we were not ready to learn to comprehend the other side of a story and be able to argue it as well as our client's side of a story we may as well walk out that door right now and never come back. That lesson has remained with me for the rest of my life.
I understand what you are saying but this is war. An unprovoked one at that.
War is the result of failure. Failure of the political process, rule of law and the judicial system. War bypasses all of that.
War is not courtroom. In war there are sides. Choose. Choose wisely.
You didn't realize it...because that isn't true. So your first impressions are correct.
(Of course various anti-Semites are spreading rumours that israel andRussia are allies).
In actuality, Russia is not particularly pro Israel or anti Israel-- they have other things on their mind. (Even in Syria)
But the problem is-- Syria (which borders Israel) is controlled by its Russian occupiers.
Russia's interest? Maintaining its control over Syria-- they're more interested in that than any issues with Israel.
Israel is surrounded by many Arab countries that wish to make Israel "Judenfrei" (Free of Jews").So some Syrian Arab terrorists occasionally attempt to cross into Israel and massacre as many civilians as they can.
Not surprisingly, for some time Israel has flown across the border to make airstrikes on the terrorists.
Re: Syria, Russia and Israel are focused on different things.
However the problem is that Israeli planes crossing the border to attack terrorists could well be misidentified as a threat to Russia-- and possibly even be accidentally shot down.
And vice versa.
So a while back, Israel and Russia met up. Nothing to do with similar or opposing goals-- but to work out a plan so that Israel and Russian air forces in pursuit of their own individual interests wouldn't accidentally shoot down each others planes!
I'm not sure I interpret Buzz' comments the way you do.
And BTW, in a conflcit many people assume that there are two sides and you must pick one.
But there's a third possibility: for wahtever reason, a nation has a third choice-- to pick neither. Not to get involved. (Traditionally countries such as Switzerlansd and Sweden have been neutral-- they don't pick sides).
I'm not trying to defend any choices, just pointingout that there are, and have been, countries that are neutral.
(Whether or not you agree with their choice is a matter for a different discussion).
For starters, it's a matter of opinion as to whether or not the war was provoked or not. Please don't try to tell me that the USA has never gone to a war without being provoked.
Sweden ended its neutrality today when it stated it was sending 130,000 MREs, 5,000 combat helmets, 5,000 units of body armor, and 5,000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine.
Tomorrow Switzerland will vote on freezing all Russian assets. That would also take them out of the neutral group.
With the attack by Russia on Ukraine the number of neutral countries may end up being zero.
What you forgot to say is that such is the case ONLY in retaliation for an attack against Israel.
And so, the only country in the world remaining neutral will be Antarctica.
Not true. The penguins have forged a alliance with the seals.
A lot of countries back Israel Buzz including us...always have.
Israel can look after itself very well and is more than capable of taking on Hamas or anyone else..as they have found out.
And I have been there when they were at war with Lebanon at the time... watched the helicopters flying over head while I was on the beach. Snuck a photo incase I got into trouble.
Many countries are to far away to be of any help but morally and in spirit many are there beside Israel...
Necessity is the mother of invention.
During WWII< there was a ship carrying refugges. FDR, a notorious rascist anti-Semite, turned them away.Most p[erished.
In addition, some Jewish leaders came to him and asked him to bomb concentration camps.
He refused.
The lessons the Jews learned is that they can't count on anyone to protect them-- so they worked long and hard doing it themselves..
At one point Iraq was building a nuclear reactor. Of course they claimed it was for peaceful uses. The Israelis knew better-- so they destroyed it.
There was condemnation from across the world (even from some Muslim countries who while condeming the attack were secretly greatful that israel took care of something seen as a threat to many other nations in the mid_East.
(Israel-- doing the jobs that no one else is willing to do..)
Not the same situation, Buzz.
You don't think the US and other countries would respond if Israel was actually invaded and about to be overrun?
None of you has been able to deny the UN's anti-Israel bias - just count the critical resolutions compared to those condemning any other nation. That is what I wrote about, not about America's or Australia's support.
Nope don't deny it at all..and they always will...it is almost a given with Israel...know the retric before they even start rabbiting on about it..
The UN... total waste of space ..
Throw in WHO and the Olympic committee and you have the trifecta...
None could lie straight in bed..
Buzz, you are unable to deny that Israel has violated UN resolutions over and over again. I'm not saying that Israel 'deserved' every critical resolution, but it's impossible to claim that NONE of them were.
I cannot deny that Israel has violated UN rules and expectations, no different than most nations, but not to the extreme that the UN declares and focuses on Israel and ignores the contraventions by the declared terror organization Hamas and the deliberate refusal to accept a peace deal by the Palestinians. Hatred of Israel is world-wide (even by some in your Democrat party) and personally I put it down to be mostly good old fashioned antisemitism.
It's disingenuous to label opposition to some of the ACTIONS of Israel as antisemitism or 'hatred' for that matter.
Israel is a signatory to those UN 'rules and expectations' thereby agreeing to be held to a higher standard than Hamas or the Palestinians or any other non-member of the UN. Whataboutism doesn't excuse those violations.
I don't think disingenuous is what you mean, because in what way am I being deceitful? I stated a fact. No way can you deny that Israel has been treated differently by the UN than other members, and that is what I loath. If anything, it is the UN that is being disingenuous.
Thanks to Trump, the third reason no longer is a UNIVERSAL wrong, since there are now one or two exceptions out of 193.
If history is any guide they'd probsably issue words of condemnation...and do nothin.
But its a moot point. The israelis are smart-- and they've learned from history that they can't depend on anyone to come to their aid. (Remember who has theoil..)
So they worked long and hard to make if a losing propostion to attack them.
True.
But OTOH, those are mere words-- Israel still exists.
I agree.
Unlike your country-- Israel is not perfect!
/sarc
If I meant 'deceitful', I would have said 'deceitful' Buzz.
You stated an opinion.
I have already admitted that may be true, yet it does NOT mean that the UN is anti-sematic OR expressing 'hatred'.
Yet you admit that Israel is not without culpability and Israel keeps doubling down on all too many of those violations, year after year.
Less than half of the 10 ways you linked have anything to do with the UN. I found it interesting that the link decries the fact that the UN is governed by majority rule. I'm pretty sure that Israel has known that information from day one.
There is no reasoning with Putin. Thus the only thing left is aggression (not necessarily boots on the ground). The most significant impact on Putin would be a show of genuine solidarity by the important and relevant nations of the world. Sending in support to defend Ukraine in terms of air power might suffice as the show of force, but the key is the solidarity behind rebuking Putin.
At this point, however, it is likely too late to get Putin to back off. He is now committed and MUST win this battle or else his entire plan (and legacy) is lost (in his mind). He is not going to stop until he has a net win. A show of solidarity and real force might bring him to the bargaining table. But I unfortunately expect that the only likely scenario is one based primarily on military force: by Putin being defeated militarily or conquering Ukraine.
Now, what happens if (when) he conquers Ukraine? What now will the world do? Will it write Ukraine off and move on with no further concerns? I suspect that is exactly what will happen. Short-sighted reasoning typically preempts acting for the betterment of the long-term big picture.
I certainly hope not. Watching Zelenskyy's self-filmed "last stand" video this evening has been bothering the hell out of me. I really hope we and others do something, and in the very near future.
For once I wish the hackers of the world would unite and do something useful for a change..
Hack the crap out of everything they can break into in Russia... especially Putin, the Kremlin and the military...
I agree with you, Dig. Zelenskyy is so courageous. He is a true leader and he is becoming a historic figure. The Ukrainian people are heroically rising to the defense of their country and their freedom. This situation is very disturbing, totally infuriating and calls out for much, much more to be done, and done right away.
the anonymous group has announced starting a hacking cyber war against russia.
Hope so..last I heard they were only hacking Russian news service and social media...
And who gives a flying fig about those.. way more important targets to home in on...
I agree, but history and present circumstances do not encourage me.
I watched a video of a Ukrainian man sending his little daughter to a safer area. He was staying to fight. Their hearts were breaking. I hope she didn't know the odds, but I'm sure he did.
They should do it but not announce it for Russia to get wind of it. That is like a burglar contacting a home owner and telling them his plan to rob them, giving the home owner time to prepare.
Looks like a lot of everyday people are answering the call.
Some of those kids in the bottom pic look like they ought to be studying for midterm exams.
I know. I hope their courage isn't rewarded with tragedy.
The one little girl should be enjoying being a little girl, not having her childhood destroyed.
They were until the Russians came.
My advice is insurgency.
The Russians will have to occupy the country because if the Russian military leaves whatever puppet government they try to establish will be overthrown immediately. With that being the case, provided the Ukranians have the will, the west should fund and arm an insurgency and make that shit as painful as possible for Putin. This invasion is not very popular in Russia and will be even less so with a steady flow of body bags returning to Moscow.
Based on what we are seeing so far, I do not see Ukraine going quietly into the night! I see them fighting Putin tooth and nail to the bloody end whatever that may be.
Yes they are certainly nothing like Afghanistan. It is very impressive. How much will the decent nations of the world support them?
In recent days. apparently several nations have been sending in significant supplies of weapons.
(Which will not end the Russian advance but rather slow it down and make it more costly for the Russians).
Despite the rantings of the media, sanctions mean little to Putin.
And ditto world opinion.
I think the only thing that might make him stop-- or at least slow down significantly-- is increasing Russian casualties.
This war was never popular with most Russians anyway. If enough of their kids return in body bags...Putin may have a problem.
(Another problem for him-- Trump did everything he could to weaken NATO. Putin was a ware of that. But as his atrocities increased, sudenly many NATO have come together..more than he expected. The oppositie of what he wanted.)
And while it might not have an immediate effect-- numerous weapons have been sent to the baltic states and other closeby NATO countries now.. another consequence of his actions)
The Europeans have all the military hardware and manpower they need to handle this. Do they have the will?
This attack is not playing well with the Russian people, and Putin doesn't have the resources available to overcome protracted resistance by the Ukrainian people.
They have the will. Problem is that Russia has the nukes! That is the wild card.
I do not see Putin using nuclear weapons in this situation. It is a net negative for him so he will not do it.
So was invading Ukraine, but he did it anyway.
If he conquers Ukraine it is net positive for him (in his view, IMO). Seems clear to me that this was his objective.
Based on the prevailing winds map, fallout would be west to east and that means Russia would be killing its own people.
There are myriad adverse side-effects of using nuclear weapons. One that likely does cross Putin's mind is the notion of using nuclear force on people that he would have as Russian citizens and land that would be Russian.
The biggest inhibitor, likely, is the reaction of the planet to the use of nuclear force by an aggressor for greed.
Yes, like turning a breadbasket in Europe into a wasteland, uninhabitable for generations.
I agree.
But while its unlikely, now that putin has increased the level of Nuclear readiness-- however remote there's always a chance of an accident.
He's not threatening to use Nukes against Ukraine, he is threatening it against everyone else, His latest threat was against Sweden and Finland for joining in the Aid to Ukraine and asking NATO to accelerate their accession plan...
Putin has pretty much galvanized the entire northern hemisphere against himself and Russia...
As a result for cutting him out of Swift, he has ordered his Nuclear forces to full alert...
Even the normally neutral Swiss have sanctioned him...
He's got no where else to turn, but either quit, surrender, or, blow it all up... Quit would destroy him as a leader, Surrender would destroy any ambition Russia has to Empire and probably drive them closer to western style government reforms... Blow it all up? he may, in his ego driven narcissism, feel that the only way to win is to obliterate what he perceives as his enemies, which at this point turns out to be almost the whole friggen world...
I didn't say he did. I replied to TiG's assertion.
Well, apparently many NATO countries aren't as wise as you-- because in addition to sending arms to the Ukraine-- they are sending quite a few to NATO nations in the area!
Why should we defend Ukraine? Everyone needs to realize that 14,000 people have been killed during the war in Donbas. The Donetsk and Luhansk regions declared their independence in 2014 following the Euromaidan insurrection. The Ukrainian military has been trying to subdue Donetsk and Luhansk since 2014. The US and Europe has been providing military aid to the Ukrainian government to kill the opposition in Donetsk and Luhansk.
Everyone needs to stop ignoring what has happened inside Ukraine since 2014. The Ukrainian government isn't the victim; western Ukrainians aren't the good guys. The Ukrainian government has been trying to do to eastern Ukraine what Turkey has been trying to do to the Kurds.
Ukraine was a founding member of the Soviet Union. And Ukraine is still more like the Soviet Union than is being acknowledged.
Vlad Putin could not make his case better himself.
It is total bullshit butt exactly what he would say...
The war in Donbas is the opposite of democracy in action. The appropriate response would have been to position US troops on the west bank of the Dnieper River, order the Ukrainian military out of the region, and begin a democratic political process that allowed the people in the region to choose through self determination.
That's not what happened. And it's too late to try democracy now. Democracy wasn't given a chance.
A revolution is not democracy. Toppling an existing government though undemocratic means does not qualify as democracy. The hypocrisy of the United States made the case for Putin. The United States has been providing weapons and munitions to kill the opposition in eastern Ukraine. The United States has accepted the Ukrainian government's sham of fighting terrorists in Donbas. Eastern Ukraine was not part of the Euromaidan insurrection and did not accept the legitimacy of the Euromaidan insurrection.
The Euromaidan insurrection established a hard line government that uses the military on its own people to subdue and eliminate opposition. Today's Ukraine is more like the the Soviet Union than is being acknowledged. The Obama administration blamed Russia for annexing Crimea but completely ignored the type of Ukrainian government established by revolutionary insurrection. The United States turned a blind eye in 2014 for the exigency of domestic political pandering.
REVOLUTION!
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The United States is supplying arms and munitions without demanding reforms in Ukraine. And that's being justified by the political narrative that Russia meddled in the 2016 election and robbed Democrats (according to liberal conspiracy theories). But Ukrainian Nazis were meddling in the election, too. Ukrainian Nazis have been recruiting in the United States and Europe. And people from the United States and Europe have been traveling to Ukraine to train and fight in the war in Donbas.
Provide the evidence of these "Ukranian Nazis" lead by a Jew.,
I've provided evidence in @ 8.1.5 without commentary. Here's more evidence but I doubt this one will be accepted since it's too easy to attack the source.
Nerm,
We all know that there are Nazi militia groups in Ukraine. But the vast majority of people who voted in both a Jewish president and a Jewish Vice President are not Nazis.
And for the record, if you look here in the US, it is shocking how many Nazi militia groups there are. But are we a country of Nazis?
If we go by Nerm's reasoning, Russia could attack us, and we wouldn't have a right to complain, because we have Nazis marching with torches, too.
The Azov Battalion is a government sponsored battalion in the Ukrainian national guard. The Ukrainian government has relied on the Azov Battalion to subdue opposition in the war in Donbas. The Azov Battalion has been training civilians to fight.
The neo-Nazis are not independent groups in Ukraine; they are recognized and sponsored by the Ukrainian government.
And our own military and law enforcement have been shown to harbor white nationalists.
And black nationalists
and Islamic radicals
And gang members, normally black or hispanic.
Some, yeah. Any of which seem to be a reason, to follow Nerm's logic, that Russia should attack us, and we shouldn't expect any help.
We won't get any help, at least not from more than a few countries that could hold their own.
Most will simply just bluster, take sides and hide in the corner...especially many countries in the EU.
That's kinda...not what I'm getting at here.
But carry on.
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I'll bet there are more Nazis in the US than there are in Ukraine.
I certainly have no fear of Communism, nor any reason to fear it, and I am NOT a Communist.
BS. You favor democracy or autocracy? Choose. Choose wisely.
There hasn't been democracy in Ukraine. The United States did not pursue democracy in Ukraine. The Euromaidan revolutionary insurrection established a hard line government that uses the military on its own people to subdue opposition.
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Was the Ukrainian gov perfect? Of course not, but then again neither is ours when you look at how badly a good number of people don't want Americans to vote, but it was a damn sight better than the previous Russian backed government (hence the uprising) and ANYTHING Putin will put in place.
trumpsters think that's a trick question...
The government overthrown by the Euromaidan revolutionary insurrection was an elected government under the constitution of Ukraine. Viktor Yanukovych was the elected President of Ukraine. Look at the map in the link; there was a west/east divide in the 2010 election. The candidate favored in western Ukraine lost the election.
The Euromaidan revolutionary insurrection overthrew an elected government and established a hard line government that declared those who supported Yanukovych were terrorists. And that hard line government used the military to subdue the opposition in eastern Ukraine.
Ukraine is NOT a European democracy.
It's much more of a democracy than Russia. And Viktor Yanukovych was a fucking criminal Putin puppet who was robbing the coffers and filling government positions with his underlings almost all from the Donbas region where almost half of Ukraine's economic development money was allotted.
Wouldn't it be despicable if there were Americans who were rooting for Putin or Russia and spreading Russian propaganda while defending their invasion? I would think those who defend Russia also share in the innocent blood covering their hands. I hope the rational peace loving Russians can overthrow the scum bag Putin, put him on trial for all his crimes and hang his executed corpse on a pike in St. Petersburg square.
Do you support the Ukrainian Nazis or the Ukrainian Communists?
This is a fight between Ukrainian Nazis and Ukrainian Communists. The United States does not need to be involved.
This is who you are rooting for: These are the 'good guys' you are cheering simply because they are anti-Russian.
Instead of ignoring Ukraine it might be wise to look at what the Euromaidan revolutionary insurrection put in place. Here's an excerpt from the link:
"Note: beginning in 2014, when the Maidan uprising brought a new government to Ukraine, the country has been erecting monuments to Nazi collaborators and Holocaust perpetrators at an astounding pace — there’s been a new plaque or street renaming nearly every week."
Who are you rooting for?
'Euromaiden'? Whatever. I'll take 'Philly Cream Cheese' on my bagel, thank you.
I'm rooting for Ukraine, just because they have these (below) same pieces of shit among them doesn't mean we shouldn't support their right to exist. Should we justify an attack on America simply because there are right wing white conservative Christian white nationalists and white supremacists?
I'm not cheering on any white nationalists, those pieces of shit are a "volunteer battalion", they are not the government, they do not represent the majority of Ukrainians just like the worthless spineless scum bag white nationalist pieces of shit Trump supporters do not represent the majority of Americans.
I'm rooting for those who will put the fucking brain dead white supremacist Russian invaders in the fucking ground. You seem to be defending Putin and claiming Russia is fighting against the Nazi's in Ukraine, the reality is they ARE the fucking worthless white supremacists. Putin is just using it as an excuse to attack, he fully supports white nationalists in his own country. It's why the alt-reich conservatives here in America watch RT and love sucking Putin's ball's like the dirty little fucking treasonous dogs they are.
And Ukrainian Nazis attacked Russia first right? Great Patriotic War 2?
But it is okay for these two douche canoes to kiss the ass of Putin's boyfriend simply because he is an R.
Oh, gee, what lies has CNN, MSNBC, and the DNC sold you on now?
And WHY do you keep falling for them?
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Naerm=Russia.
True.
At least in this case we did not try to forceably impose our views on another country.
Rather we left them alone, to govern their own country!
So you are correct Nerm L (or whoever you actually are)...the Ukrainians formed their own government the way they chose- - and they choose Democracy rather that Puttanescan Autocracy!
REVOLUTION??
Nope mon petit choux.. the appropriate word would be...
PASTA FAZOULE!
Joe Biden only threatened to withhold boatloads of money if Ukraine didn't do what the United States and Europe wanted. Biden thinks money is a weapon. That's why Biden has been relying on sanctions.
What Rabbit will Putin attempt to pull out of a hat next?
My guess?
His next feat will be to claim he can see parts of the Ukraine from his front Porch!
Let's hope Putie does not remember that.
Wow, you left A LOT out in that statement.
SOP for many...
WTF-- have you stopped watching Fox News?
Because up until quite recently, that was the POV they were pushing on their groupies-- "its not our war"..etc. etc.
But in the last two days or so, as the world has become more aware of Putins atrocities-- the Fox News party line has changed!
Now they are moving towards a more pro-Ukraine position (or at least a more neutral one).
I have to confess- I was amazed the last time I watched Fox.
Maybe its time to "get with the programme" Nerm L?
You mean things like Selenskyy being democratically elected to Ukraine's highest office be a democratic election with 70 percent of the vote?
So you have zero problem ignoring the average innocent civilians and children being wantonly killed by the invading Russians on the orders of that psychopath Putin? Pretty cold and callous there Nerm.
14,000 have been killed during the war in Donbas. It's a little late to be shedding tears.
Defense industries are a major component of the Ukrainian economy. Ukraine supplied arms to most of those we have been fighting in the Middle East. Do a little research on UkrOboronProm. Ukraine even manufactured nuclear weapons for Russia. What do you think Chernobyl was used for?
Since 2014.
And eight years makes 14,000 killed in a political war OK? It's still a little late to be shedding tears.
All wars are political and no, no killings are okay, obviously.
But your omission of "since 2014" is curious.
Sorry Dig for the off topic posts.
Don't be. It hadn't even occurred to me. Pretty much anything to do with Ukraine at the moment is on topic as far as I'm concerned.
I can't figure out how anyone witnessing this atrocity can be on Putin's side.
If Trump is for it and he is, so are his sheeple.
Putin seems to be becoming more and more unstable. There’s a lot of talk here about using both traditional and asymmetric warfare to defeat him, but what if he is truly as mad as he seems? He puts no value on human life and just wants what he wants and will do anything and say anything to get it, no matter how outrageous. The one thing nobody has mentioned thus far is nukes. Mutually assured destruction is only a deterrent to a sane leader. If he feels his options at this stage are with to win or to die trying, what would a madman care if the rest of humanity died with him? At that point humanity’s only hope is that he is stopped internally by those around him who have not reached that level of insane nihilistic pride. If Hitler would have had nukes he wouldn’t have thought twice about going out like that before eating a bullet.
Nukes are the main reason NATO isn't taking direct action.
I disagree. If Putin gave the order to use nuclear weapons, I am extremely confident that the Russian Military Command would remove him----even if it had to kill him and his immediate staff. The Russians are not that stupid.
I mean the reason NATO isn't going to take any direct action unless attacked is because the risk of a miscalculation or an escalation is too great.
No. The US Command or the Russian Command will not use nuclear weapons.
I personally believe Putin made a grave miscalculation. I believe he thought his support in the US would be much larger.
Putin also should not have permitted Trump to get close to him. He should have read Rick Wilson's book, "Everything Trump touches, dies." Might have saved him a lot of angst. I predict that Trump is going to go down and the landing will be hard. The possibility of Putin losing his grip and support is also increasing. I suspect Putin's INTEL incorrectly told him that Trump is more popular, influential and in control than the reality is.
When Trump has to testify under oath for any of a myriad of things approaching, the house of glass will shatter, and the rats will scramble for the exits. And then the lonely man will be truly alone.
Putin is using the Nuclear threat like a bluff in Bridge... Problem is two fold...
1. the more and more it looks like he is going to fail in converting Ukraine to Russian dominance, he will be forced back to his declared weapon of last resort....
2. in his megalomaniacal mind, he is slowly convincing himself of the justification for the use of nuclear weapons... And his blame isn't being focused on Ukraine... It is being focused on NATO, the EU, and those nations supporting them...
. It is being focused on NATO, the EU, and those nations supporting them...
It's always dangerous to back a psychopath into a corner.
Last week, I think the fear was that Ukraine is a domino and the next to fall would be a Baltic Republic. After the performance and exposure of the Russian Army this week, I think that's off the table. Russia is going to have it's hands full just getting to some place where it can declare "victory" in Ukraine. I think the concern is now what Putin will do to ensure that he can declare victory or how he will lash out if he thinks winning Ukraine is beyond his capabilities.
The worse things go in Ukraine for Putin, the more dangerous it may get for the world, absent a Russian patriot ridding the world of Putin.
It is my fervent hope that a saner mind will step up in Russia...
It got a lot worse today for Putin. Sweden stated that they will be sending 130,000 MREs, 5,000 combat helmets, 5,000 units of body armor, and 5,000 anti-tank weapons.
The EU just announced that they will be supporting Ukraine with another $500 million.
That's the reason he threatened them with nuclear retaliation... (and requesting that NATO accelerate their accession plans)
That's from the EU's slush fund... I've heard word that the EU is deciding if the 2.5 billion euro Ukrainian accession fund should be tapped to support them now...
There's no question now if Ukraine will join both NATO and the EU once this invasion is over...
The UN and Nato need to respond
The UN should throw the bums out first even if it just uses the technicalities pointed out by the Ukrainian Minister.
Much better than the obvious lies of Putin.
The Crimean Bridge should disappear one night soon.
Hit Crimea with ballistic missiles from the Black Sea.
Cut off and crush Kalinsgrad.
The minute troops from Belarus or Chechnya show up, bomb those countries too
Fucking grant Sweden, Finland and Ukraine instant NATO status/
Maybe all on the same day.
See if Putin's head explodes.
He'll start to reach for the red button, and some bemedaled Field Marshall, a hero of the old Soviet Union, pulls his pistol and puts a bullet in his brain...
and up comes the music, and the curtain closes....
See any of the "meeting" he had with his cabinet members or military "advisers"?
He sits 30 to 60 feet away from everyone else in the room.
They probably aren't allowed to have weapons any where near him.
We can always hope he has a stroke instead
and they just leave him where he falls....
Putin has put his nuclear program on high alert.
I would hope that the personnel who can launch would tell Putin to f himself and walk out after disabling whatever equipment is needed to launch.
I've seen a few people talking about it. As someone said after Putin felt he needed to remind everyone that Russia is a nuclear power (can't remember who), it costs Putin nothing to make threats about nuclear weapons, but actually using them would cost him everything.
Using a nuke is a suicide note.
Not a note, a demand, a sorta kinda suicide by cop so to speak...
From Obama's ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul.
"The people who know Putin the best -- people I know in Russia -- are worried about his recent nuclear statement. The people who know him the least are saying it's cheap talk."
The US offered to evacuate President Zelensky and his reply was, ''The fight is here, I need ammo, not a ride.''
I can't say enough about the courage of the Ukrainian military/people and their leadership.
The Ukrainians are fighting in the streets of Kyiv.
Nukes. That is more or less the primary reason. Second to that is I don't think Americans have the stomach for a major protracted war against a modern military like the Russian military right now. We just came off 20 years of war, the country needs a break.
Would we beat the Russians? Of course. Do we want to incur those costs? Not really.
Agreed. I know that Russia using nukes against us would just result in us nuking them, but we'd all be just as dead. And I'm not sure Putin is mentally stable enough not to order the use of nuclear weapons. Mutually assured destruction might actually be an acceptable risk to him. If he does order it, his own military has pretty much shown us that they will not stop him.
And yeah, we've lost a lot of young men and women fighting other countries' wars for decades.
Don't forget that Russia still has the Soviet era "Dead Hand" nuclear option system still in operational use that will automatically trigger a nuclear response from Russia.
I honestly wasn't sure if that was the case or not. And given that nobody in a position of power in his own country seems to have the balls to stand up to him, I figured it was irrelevant, anyway. They'll go where he steers them, even if it's into disaster.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. IMO Putin was betting that he would be able to declare that Kyiv was back under proper control, resistance was limit to nonexistant, and the Russian army would be coming home by now.
The war was never very popular in Russia, and the longer it goes on and the more body bags go home, the harder it gets for Putin.
Agreed. I know that Russia using nukes against us would just result in us nuking them, but we'd all be just as dead. And I'm not sure Putin is mentally stable enough not to order the use of nuclear weapons. Mutually assured destruction might actually be an acceptable risk to him. If he does order it, his own military has pretty much shown us that they will not stop him.
And yet, some people on this very site have been arguing that it would be unethical to take him out.
(Mock me all you wish-- but I'm 100% in favour of a sucessful targeted assassination.)
Difficult times call for extreme measures.
The war was never very popular in Russia, and the longer it goes on and the more body bags go home, the harder it gets for Putin.
I totally agree.
In fact (unfortunately) that may the only thing that gets him to stop.
That-- or a targeted assassination.
No body bags. Putin has portable crematorias in Ukraine with his troops so the Russian populace will see no dead bodies being sent back home!
The World Should Physically Intervene In Ukraine?
We are not in a position to intervene, 20 year of war based on lies and disinformation. The Ukrainian conflict is much more complicated than most realize.
I certainly don't want to support these fascists. NBC was fawning over them and completely missed the obvious.
Oliver Stone has a worthy documentary on Ukraine put out in 2016. I had no Idea the country had such a history with white Nationalism. Our CIA resettled Ukrainian Nazis after WWI in the US and continued to support White Nationalism for the next 80 years in the country because they disliked the Soviets and Russians.
Dig in a little, it's hard find a reason to get involved in this conflict.
Why exactly do you consider the Ukranian government to be fascists? I mean aside from parroting Russian propaganda.
I don't think the current government are fascists, but the militias fighting for Ukraine right now absolutely are.
Oh geeze, not the F word again.
Some need to stop reading MTG's playbook.
Based on.....?
And you know this how?
(Other then the obvious fact that you are so much smarter than the rest of us here...?)
Oliver Stone has a worthy documentary on Ukraine put out in 2016. I had no Idea the country had such a history with white Nationalism.
Correct.
In fact, that's why I'm so grateful to live in the U.S.-- where we are lucky enough not to have had such a history of White nationalism!
Pssst... Moose Knuckle... the Soviets and the Russians are White!
Yeah, well, Iraq wasn’t sitting on the largest collection of nuclear weapons in the world. Is Ukrainian sovereignty worth killing millions and irradiating the planet? Most would say “no.”
Go for it! Hop on a plane. Find a weapon, and go stand in the way of advancing tanks and missile strikes.
im reminded that iraq after the first gulf was an entirely different set of circumstances than what we see going on right now in ukraine, what semi worked there wont work in this case because of the very glaring differences .
As for Putin , i view him as a very cold and calculating gambler that wont put his money on the table unless it is a sure thing after reading the table . and right now i think he has read the table and can say what will happen with some confidence he is correct i know thats simplifying , but it fits .
i would ask that people remember i was in service at what was "suppose " to be the end of the "cold war era" . and IMO what i am seeing happening now is someone relite the pilot light and is turning up the fuel .
A number of countries are sending weapons to the Ukrainians including the US, Germany, Poland, and others.
Hopefully, there will be more countries added to those sending arms. The more Russian blood that the Ukrainians bleed from the Russians the deeper hole it will put Putin in.
In a move never imagined, Swiz banks are freezing Russian assets.
Yes, they are and that is amazing.
Today Turkey has envoked the treaty of 1936 and will not allow Russian warships into the Black Sea unless that is their home base. That is also stunning.
The international response to this has been over the top to say the least...
The whole darned world is looking at Russia as a pariah nation... They have no where to turn, their only options at this point surrender and withdraw, or suicide by them blowing up the world with themselves as the primary target......
I'm 100% sure this is not what Putin envisioned as the results of his "Special" mission...
When the most neutral country in the world gets involved, you know that this is serious.
This might perhaps come as a total shock to you (?).
But there are other ways America can support them (Other then send our kids there on a suicide mission).
Seriously...
I’m responding to the seed. I’m not the one demanding we intervene “physically” in Ukraine, ya know? The seeder made the comparison to the first Gulf War, when we put boots on the ground. Don’t blame me for taking the author at his word.
Seriously.
Same member just posted a seed about how individuals can go to Ukraine and personally fight for the cause, so I don’t think I misinterpreted or exaggerated anything here.
Right now our plan is working!
IMO, Putin is trying to re-establish the Russian Empire. Look at his history, first, it was Georgia and Russia still controls 20% of Georgia. Next, it was Crimea and now the rest of Ukraine. He will do anything to keep the Empire together (Chechnya) and expand back to what it was or perhaps beyond. He wants to be seen as the person that returned Russia to its old glory.
He has now threatened Sweden and Finland.
If he gets away with taking Ukraine who is next? The rest of Georgia, Moldovia, the Baltic countries? Or will it end up in another proxie war between the US and Russia?
And that is why this is intolerable. He most certainly wants to make himself the modern Catherine the Great by rebuilding her empire, and he wants to do it at the expense of democratic governments, and normal diplomatic processes.
Seems that Sweden takes it back to Russia after the threat by Russia.
Today the Swedish government announced that they are sending to the Ukraine 130,000 mre's, 5,000 combat helmets, 5,000 body armor and 5,000 anti tank weapons.
Yowza!
Two words for Putin.....Czar Nicholas.
{chuckle} Pardon me sweets..... Wannabe Tsar Nicholas....
Everyone should understand something..
WE, the US, YES the United States of America...
Are not going to get into this war in any way shape or form, (except for supplies and equipment) NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND!!!
until...
WE, OR ANY NATO ALLY ARE DIRECTLY ATTACKED....
And we shouldn't, it is not our way...
But if they do such, then we should enter it with both feet, and put the remains of the old soviet system in a very deep grave...
Pretty much. Provide the Ukranians weapons and funding, sanction the shit out of Russia and make them hurt as much as possible, but other than that we need to stand by. But yes, if the Russians attack a NATO ally, even accidently then we need to hit hard and fast and be prepared to put an end to the current Russian government. No half assing it.
No one is saying that we should put boots on the ground.
well boots are already on the ground from GB to poland , italy to denmark and places we may never have heard of .
you have heard of bitburg , ramstein , aviano , mindenhall? and a slew of others , all places where US boots are on the ground .
And what about military bases in the U.S.--plenty of American boots on the ground there!
(But you already knew that
)
laugh if you want , but we know some have already been deployed and more are being readied to be sent .
to think otherwise is playing blind deaf and dumb.
i only mentioned USAF bases in Europe , never mentioned army installations , so add those to the list already on the ground within distance to deploy rapidly ..
they use to use Pattons response time from when notified to re enforce bastone from where he was in France at the time , as a benchmark during exersizes , for getting both men and material from one place to another . as far as i know, his record still stands for amount of both equipment and personel moved the greatest distance on the ground . and he did that during the worst winter weather conditions that area of europe had experienced in over 50 years .
Actually, I am. But maybe that's just me. It's not Russian soil.
1/503 of the 173rd Airborne is now in Latvia. Part of the 1/87 10th Mountain is in Poland now.
The 82nd Airborne is there as well, not sure what country but I believe some are in Poland.
"we" entered WWII in Europe well before we declared war.
There were three Eagle Squadrons of American pilots and air crews flying in the RAF for months before the USA entered the war.
My Uncle was in England training RAF pilots on Pearl Harbor Day...
Yes, as volunteer members of the RAF, mostly officers, (who resigned their commissions) discharged enlisted and civilian pilots..
There was also the AVG in China fighting the Japanese...
My Uncle was ground crew for the AVG, enlisted volunteers for AMMISCA.
Interesting tattoos mapped out his career in the US Army.
One tough SOB.
Also returned to CONUS with a small bag of colored stones, most of which were actually precious jewels
that he bought for pennies in Burma & China.
I found out today that Putin is battling cancer and Parkinsons. The sooner this mofo dies, the better off the world will be.
Or----is it a cover story so he can walk away with his billion$ and avoid any consequence?
More inspirational courage.
Click the link – I can shoot. I am not afraid. I want to fight.
I hope she gets to raise her children in her home, in peace.
I clicked on the link.
And yet-- there are actually people on NT who think people like her are Nazis.(or some other form of White Supremicist!
WTF???
I saw a report that Ukrainian hospitals are running dangerously low on oxygen.
I imagine they'll be running low on everything soon. Time to add hospital supplies to the things being sent in from the western border.
Earlier I saw a clip of sick kids from a children's hospital being moved into a basement for shelter from the attack on Kharkiv in the east. A nurse was saying, "This is our home now, this is where we live."
It will get a lot worse before it gets better...
Why do you think there is a rush to get as many stinger missiles into the Ukraine as possible...
Here's a quick thought to mull over...
We don't know if physical, military intervention is in fact being considered as a non-publicly disclosed option by any of the powers in Europe or elsewhere, even if only in the form of air power. But if it is, then it needs to happen SOON.
The vast majority of Putin's forces are still in the field, with many of his tanks and other vehicles lined up nicely on highways like ducks in a row. Right now the countryside is a target rich environment, and if we're smart, then those targets should be destroyed now, before they can amass and ultimately overwhelm the major cities. Once his forces are entrenched in the cities they will be much harder to destroy without causing severe damage to the cities themselves, not to mention the greatly increased chance of incurring civilian casualties in the process.
Just something to consider.
This just on the news....major sports organizations are baring Russian athletes from competitions.
Yeah it was reported about 8 hrs ago on CBS radio news.... I posted it in the other article..
They are really being cut off from anything and everything...