The illusive center
The link to the quote: https://www.dailywire.com/news/the-soul-of-joe-bidens-america-is-dark-as-hell
According to a 2019 Pew Research Poll n early four-in-ten U.S. adults (38%) identify as politically independent:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/05/15/facts-about-us-political-independents/
That's a good share of the electorate. They are essential to winning elections. We don't hear much from them. The Lion's share of the media does not represent them. We have an activist media that is only interested in influencing them. The coming midterm, like all midterms is primarily about the performance of the president and/or the party in power. This time around however, the democrats are determined not to let that happen. Those controlling the administration have developed a strategy to further divide the electorate and the Republican Party. Joe Biden has been attacking all 74 Million of those who voted for Donald Trump (46.8% of the electorate in 2020). I wonder how all those independents who voted for Biden ("the unifier") feel about that? For that matter, how do they feel about the policies that Biden initiated?
Never-Trump Republicans: There was once a predominant part of the GOP. It was of a different class than many who registered as Republicans. They shared a set of values with their democrat opponents and they always took every opportunity to virtue signal to their opponents. They did appeal to traditional American families. In the end they let the middle class down. They get part of the blame for the betrayal of the working class that they were never a part of. America's working class were once like the impotent town's people of Rose Creek, who were at the mercy of a ruthless industrialist. Neither political party really cared about them. One day those people found a gunslinger for hire and the Republican Party would never be the same.
Moderate democrats: What do you do? I am sure many of you don't like the rhetoric Biden has adopted. Do we look for moderate candidates? Do we lament the good people we knew that have passed away? Or do we stay home in November?
Family and Friends: Those we know personally give us hope as well as concern about the future. I most identify with the hard working people that I grew up with and that is what has had the most influence on my political views. In my family we have an unwritten rule: we never discuss politics. I have in-laws whom I have no inkling as to their their political views. I have friends that are democrats, but mostly moderate democrats, the old fashioned kind. Unfortunately, the democratic party is not controlled by blue collar democrats. Instead it is shedding such people. All of the friends that I discuss politics with comes down to a handful of people. Only one was somebody I had contact with. She was a military bar maid & widow turned school teacher. She was a proud democrat and a very decent human being. Her and I had many heated arguments, but it never affected our friendship. The other individuals I discuss politics with, I've never met. They are all here in this forum, where we get to give our opinions. One I talk with every morning. He has become a close friend. There are also two former educators, one an old fashioned liberal and the other a woman who I have great respect for. She is an independent. Unfortunately, she has written me off and that happens with all of this fierce division. That leaves the extremists that any such site is bound to attract. They are not used to having their instilled beliefs challenged. Shall we forgive them?
The sad part is that we now know the truth.
Only one man cared about the middle class and he has been cast as an extremist.
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Where is the center right now?
... it's about 180 degrees to the left of the trumpster insurrectionists, women are 2nd class citizens misogynists and POTUS is above the law supporters.
I consider myself an independent centrist.
Own firearms but believe in rational gun control laws.
Am an environmental scientist and am also an economist. Huge dichotomy!
Anthropogenic global warming is real. Not a damn thing we can do about it at this point.
Destroying the economy to save us a few more years won't really matter at this late date.
Nero (a republican) fiddled while Rome burned.
The planet is burning now and even after years of warnings from those who saw it coming.
Seriously doubt that our planet will support much human life within the next 3 generations.
I'll already be dead but fuck all of you who didn't listen to environmental scientists.
Who would that be?
The guy who can't keep his mouth shut. The one who you constantly think about.
The article is about the people in the middle of the extremes.
AOC cares about the middle class more than Trump does.
Do you think you are in "the middle" Vic ?
No, AOC cares about those she thinks of as "oppressed." She was in favor of the middle class paying for student loans for those who will be among the nation's highest earners. She also wants the middle class to be forced to suffer for "green energy."
Do you think you are in "the middle" Vic ?
Let's leave Vic out of this.
You wrote an article about the middle. Dont you think where you put yourself on the spectrum is relevant? If you think you are in the middle the rest of us will have to decide whether or not your definition of the middle is workable.
I'm leaving Vic out of it. I was clear as to who suck people are. Note the Pew Research Link. You will note that many in the center tend to lean one way or the other. The question I asked, was how those people, many of whom voted for Biden in 2020, feel about his performance. That answer may determine where they go in November.
“The question I asked, was how those people, many of whom voted for Biden in 2020, feel about his performance.”
Traditionally, the reason for a midterm loss of seats in both Chambers. This is a unique year, however, as the ex-president, with an obvious agenda, has willfully inserted himself into multiple races. Regardless of those who spout the tds deflection, in the races he has offered an endorsement, it will most certainly be a referendum on him and his intentions.
And you are correct, it will be the middle, as always, that determines the outcome. Still a long way out with much to be determined with much on the line.
The Pew article is more than three years old, and predates both Trump impeachments and Jan 6, 2021. And the subservient way Republican office holders have acted towards Trump since those events.
I think those facts may bear a lot of weight on how independents will vote in a couple months.
I know, I gave you the date, I don't think the makeup of the electorate has changed. Events that have occurred since would not turn indys into partisans.
You tried two odd ways to debate the article.
She couldn't identify an automobile without directions. She's a drama queen looking for attention.
It is a very unique year. The sitting president never campaigned as a raging radical. We now have 9% Inflation, $4 a gallon gas prices, an open border complete with fentanyl importation, child rape and drug lords controlling the border, not to mention rampant crime throughout the country. That makes all else frivolous.
If she is a drama queen, what in the world would you call donald....
“That makes all else frivolous.”
Frivolous is your bringing up the center and independents. It is painfully, redundantly obvious where your bread is buttered, vic.
There is a center. They can make you or break you.
Now Biden's handlers are down to a scorched earth policy.
The beating is coming. It's only a question of how bad it will be for democrats.
Are there any independents here today?
AOC cares about no one other than herself. Too bad she isn't good looking enough; good enough gamer; and has no original thoughts- she could have made it as a streamer. But that would take real work. Much easier to be a fake virtue signaling politician that knows how to use social media. There is much less competition.
If she cared about the middle class she wouldn't have worked so damn hard to nix the Amazon terminal that was going to be built in her district. She doesn't even understand how tax breaks work. She thought New York was paying Amazon to build and run operations there. How much money did her damn ignorance cost the city and state of New York?
If she cared about the middle class she wouldn't be all in for illegal immigration- which hurts the poor and working class by driving down wages; and fighting for benefits normally reserved for US citizens.
The fact the Democrats are actually listening to her BS concerning green energy will have the US in the same dire straights as England, Germany, and of course Kalifornia.
The drama king.
Which makes the Democrats the usurpers trying to steal his crown. They can have it (The King and Queen deserve to be from the same party); but they need to stop weaponizing the IRS, FBI, and DOJ against their political opponents. Democrats are not the law; nor are they above it.
Biden is so far off the deep end now that Trump might be forced to literally hand him the drama crown.
Hahaha. The sad thing is you all believe what you type.
donald gets in trouble so you claim everyone else is to blame.
Donald, Donald, Donald..... Beware: the people are coming!
Funny considering your article is about donald...
Only in your mind.
Can you not read your own writing? The whole thing is about never trumpers and how people should look at Biden in disgust as the only one that can save them is donald.
I was hoping to get some independents to comment.
Unfortunately, we don't have very many of them here.
Former POTUS.
That never caused drama...Yeah right.
Seems the only drama he caused was among the left and the Democrats. Drama you all still haven't been able to move along from.
Haha. I swear. No matter what he does you all jump through hoops to defend him.
I'm not defending him. I'm merely pointing out a fact you, apparently, are blind to.
So according to you only Democrats have ever been offended by donald. Ok....
Exactly where did I say ONLY DEMOCRATS?
“I was hoping to get some independents to comment.
Unfortunately, we don't have very many of them here.”
And why would we…only to have any and every comment disparaged if it didn’t fit the narrative.
“Former POTUS.”
Whose broken every single precedent as an ex-president. Just as he broke every single precedent while in office.
By both sides.
“By both sides.”
At least you didn’t preface a response with a contradictory, specious question.
That being said…agreed.
At least you got your preface in a response.
We're still waiting on your "investigation" to prove that false.
I guess standing up for the country you are President of is a bad thing.
I don't really declare myself "independent", but I vote for candidates in both parties. I voted for Biden, but I also voted for Greg Abbott.
I don't see myself ever voting for Trump, but I don't consider him the coming of the apocalypse or anything.
I don't know if that makes me an independent or not. I do consider myself a moderate.
What did you want to know, specifically?
You say you voted for Biden.
Did he perform as you expected?
Would you vote for him again?
How the fuck is that even logical Vic? It's YOUR Op/Ed, i.e. YOUR opinion.
BTFW, speaking of yourself in the third person is very Trumpian.
You're going to have to narrow that down a bit for me.
Are we talking Trump or DeSantis?
Who do you consider to be in the middle of the extremes?
I did vote for Biden.
"Perform as expected" is an interesting question. My expectations were pretty low, TBF.
What I hoped for was a doddering old ineffective grandpa. I was looking for a Jimmy Carter style figure that would be a sort of wet blanket over the constant firestorm of needless antagonism that Trump seemed to relish igniting at every opportunity. That shit is fine for reality TV, but it's no way to govern a country.
I figured we'd spend 4 years with not much happening and then get a chance to elect somebody who was a far better candidate than either of the 2020 choices.
I think in the early days, Joe held to that. He and Pelosi both seemed to stand up to the looney lefty brats like "the squad" and the Bernie bots. It just didn't last very long. I think economic issues washed away what little firm ground he might have been able to stand upon, and he's taken a harder line on cultural issues than he might otherwise have wanted. Eventually, he just wasn't strong enough to hold his ground.
But we're in an easily recognizable historical cycle. Whenever a Democrat wins the WH, they forget how they got there and veer too far left. We saw this with Clinton and again with Obama,and I certainly expected it with Biden. However this generally corrects after the midterms, and I suspect it will again.
So to speak more concretely, I'm unhappy about the ineptitude of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, the student loan forgiveness, and his unwillingness to address the immigration situation. But TBF, Trump was a complete idiot about immigration, also.
I'm indifferent about the anti-MAGA speech (the only people who care about something like that are already firmly in one camp or the other). I don't fault him for inflation; it was inevitable and Trump's immigration stupidity is partially to blame. I think most of the things my Trump supporting friends find highly objectionable are not likely to have significant tangible effects anyway.
So would I vote for him again..... If you're asking would I still vote for him in 2020 knowing what I know now.... meh... yeah... probably. He just hasn't done much and what he has done just isn't in the same league as Trump continually pouring gasoline on any and every fire he could find. I really didn't vote for Biden as much as I voted against Trump and his constant antagonism of half the country.
If you're asking if I'll vote for him again in 2024 (assuming he runs), that depends completely on who he's running against. If the election were today and he was running against Trump, then yeah, I'm still voting against Trump. But there are at least a half dozen people I'd rather vote for than either of these two.
Nope.
Actually, it's quite muddied Vic. You said:
You start your seed citing independents, then start asking moderate democrats questions, then all of sudden, you include yourself among moderate democrats. Oh, and then you ask where the center right is.
So, who the fuck are you talking to or about Vic?
I like watching trumpsters grovel for the independent vote. gee, I wonder what that means...
What Jack said.
It really doesn't concern you. There were 3 segments. One was for Never-Trump Republicans, one for Independents and one for moderate democrats.
I don't think you are a part of any of those groups.
Your false claims here on NT sure as fuck do.
You forgot "Family and Friends' and the 'center right'.
Your opinion is noted but irrelevant. I don't think YOU are part of any of those 5 groups, yet you're here pontificating.
No. Everyone could see he was the quiet guy in the corner
Can you point to something that Biden has done that weren't part of the documented policies he campaigned on?
Oh, and what specific 'ground' did Biden give up to 'the squad' or the 'Bernie bots'?
I find that very disturbing. You voted for a man that in his first 18 months brought seismic change to the country. Not in any way beneficial change, but all of it very negative. You talk about it as though it was like a change of socks, as if it didn't affect you personally.
It did affect even you. You just didn't feel it enough.
Oh please. Enough with the partisan dramatics. The "seismic change" came from a two + year long pandemic that we're still recovering from. No matter who was in office would have seen the same increase in gas prices and inflation. Pretending anything else is beyond ignorant.
The reality we narrowly avoided "seismic change" when the attempted insurrection January 6th was thwarted. If the Cheeto Benito had succeeded in violently preventing the constitutionally mandated transfer of power, we would be living in a constitutional Republic in name only and would be several steps closer to fascism if not all the way there.
I think tens of millions of Americans disagree with you.
Did Biden sneak into your room after he was inaugurated and assault you? Can you show on the doll where he touched you?
Maybe he was asleep when Biden snuck into his room...
No, that change came from green energy policies and inflationary wasteful spending policies as well as a devastating open border policy.
The reality we narrowly avoided "seismic change" when the attempted insurrection January 6th
Actually there wasn't anything "narrowly" avoided. Our system held up very well and we were never in any danger of one hated human being or a bunch of boy scouts overturning an election. Are you really going to campaign with that trivia for 2 months?
I think tens of millions of Americans disagree with you.
You have the surprise of your life coming.
Did Biden sneak into your room after he was inaugurated and assault you? Can you show on the doll where he touched you?
He didn't affect people? Not everyone is sitting behind a computer all day filled with woke ideas.
What would that be?
You know how you think this "seismic change" thing sounds silly and melodramatic?
That's what liberals sounded like when Trump was in office.... only much, much worse.
You go from a sensible reasonable post, to attempting to state Vic calling Biden "seismic change", as a comparison to the Trump Presidency...?
When the mental midget that couldn't outsmart a fictitious widget, that was prone to fidget a bout he did lose, fare and square, as attempted was an EZ pass Wider in lane to tear off the rotating cuff linked to oh fensive deeds and rhetoric that were like a stick used to provoke and awaken those who had spokes and views stoked of those different than they, or perhaps who were gender indifferent, and sometimes gay, as they happily went on their on the shoulder off the spun cuff of a Low way, to attempt to overtake our HighWay , with incite meant for they, to divide so far, easier to conquer and collide, with our founders dreams and intentions, four worth a mention, is Biden tried to reach across the aisle, while all the while, Trump, just did defile in the record books, many a Defile in his House of Records, cause it's No Secret, Trump stole classified documents and records, and i would definitely consider motive being to sell, or use as bargaining leverage against the DOJ, cause Trump is on a different stratospFheare hear that way, than say some older Statesman Biden his time, in an office Trump the Miscreant Messiah did desecrate and slime, while claiming to Make America Sewer Grate Again, instead, just on fire by "men" , who FAILED to call out the DiffiCult led leader, and for this, the GOP should need pay, as their party over country has just set US back so far, and not so good
There is not a comparison to Biden's agenda and compliance, to Trumps violent incitements and attempted and much achieved defiance
as Trump has lowered an entire countries standing in the world, and so many have proven, we have earned it. And that is a sad fact, but what isn't, is a Biden Trump comparison on this mentioned "seismic change" as the earth moving by one Donald Trump could deliver, and continues to send, but due to the enablement by the GOP, the Trump cancer, is and will be, slow to mend
Now they're claiming that all those documents were safer at Mar-A-Lardo.
No.
Read carefully.
I'm not talking about Biden or Trump. I'm talking about people who wildly overstate the impact of presidents, often hysterically.
This is almost always based on how that person made them "feel". They point to ethereal, utterly subjective ideas like "lowered our standing" or "emboldened xyz people", because their emotions are their primary filter of the world around them, and they project that onto everybody else.
The power of the presidency being intentionally and strictly limited by the Constitution is inconvenient to those emotions, so they ignore that.
These people tend to be those who look for leadership instead of assuming it, and tend to judge a president based on what he said and how that made them feel, rather than what he actually did and what concrete, measurable impact it had.
But when it's all done, what remains of any presidency are the tangible accomplishments. On that front, there hasn't been anything remotely resembling "seismic change" from either Trump or Biden. That hasn't stopped the hysteria.
There are some here who constantly obsess about Trump, but never give an honest critique of their own party and its policies. Why is that?
You have dismissed Trump as a factor a number of times, but you always seem to go back to him when the going gets tough.
When conservatives get rid of him once and for all we can all move on. It is up to you.
If that was only true.
We decided to get rid of the left. Their horrible ideas need to go.
The countdown has begun to November 8th.
Distraction from the Dumpster fire they support?
Inability to move forward?
TDS?
Because he is toxic to democracy [removed]
There is zero evidence to support the idea that Donald Trump cares about anybody other than Donald Trump.
It's also disingenuous to talk about Trump with no mention of the fact that he only exists as a political force because of Hillary.
Trump exists as a political force because of white grievance. Donald Trump wanted to run for president in 2012, and to build a political base from which to acquire the Republican nomination he jumped in with both feet into racist birtherism. He might have succeeded in getting that nomination, except Obama released his long form birth certificate and Trump was humiliated. Trump proceeded to bide his time for a couple years and came back in 2015 on much the same ideological platform.
Everything is Trump with you. You can't do it this time. Dividin' Biden has hurt too many people!
Trump is a factor in the midterms, possibly the main factor. It may depend on how he acts over the next few weeks. People want to be through with this guy, but conservatives wont throw him out of the house.
Dream on John.
It's only a question of how bad the dems will lose.
People got hurt!
Abortion is going to be the main factor. It's not just the Dobbs decision, but perhaps more importantly, the gleeful rush that many repub dominated state legislatures entered to essentially eliminate abortion options even in the egregious cases rape and incest. Millions of woman are registering to vote and they are mad, mad at repubs. I think it was a recent WSJ poll that abortion rights and the fear of losing some contraceptive rights as the key issue the Fall.
Biden's recent wins, and approval increase and individual candidate character and issue will also have impact on who wins but abortion is going to bring out the vote. All of this trumps Trump as an issue.
Give it a rest. Just stop. Your self loathing white shame is too much to take.
If Trump won due to "white grievance" then he wouldn't have lost in 2020. Or do you think all of those people that voted for Trump the first time around that switched their vote to Biden suddenly got over their "white grievance"? Biden is definitely a Democrat all the way. He favors minorities over whites and panders to them constantly.
Most people voted for Trump as the lesser of two evils. Which tells you all you need to know about Hillary.
The truth about Donald Trump is there for all to see if the open their eyes. His political career is based on white grievance dating back to 2011.
As for 2020, it is likely that he lost because thousands and thousands of Republican voters left him off their ballot even as they voted for the other republicans on the ticket. Even they had enough of his shit.
Many of the Republicans you speak of have recently scrubbed their websites. While it is true that some of them wanted to eliminate all abortion options, they have been educated on where my illusive center stands. Most Americans are in favor of abortion with restrictions. That leads us to where democrats are: Many or most democrat candidates are in favor of abortion right up to the point of birth. That is what the conversation needs to be focused on.
In 2022 he won't be on the ballot. So now what do you do?
I agree but that not what the elected Repubs have done.
Republicans are slow to react. Dems always have their ducks in line.
Zero to "full batshit" in one post.
What state is he running in? I missed that announcement.
“Many or most democrat candidates are in favor of abortion right up to the point of birth. That is what the conversation needs to be focused on.”
No, vic…the entire conversation is and will always be on a woman’s right to choose.
It is so....Read it and weep:
Even if based on a Washington Post op-ed…it still and will always come down to whether a woman can have domain over her life decisions or whether outside influences, never acknowledging the individual circumstances, will still attempt to make those decisions for her.
Let's see how that plays when the people are informed that 46 democrat candidates are in favor of abortion on demand right up until birth.
Today is the day after Labor Day. The campaign has begun. People are now paying attention.
“Let's see how that plays when the people are informed that 46 democrat candidates are in favor of abortion on demand right up until birth.
Today is the day after Labor Day.”
Funny you cite ‘Labor Day’ in this context. Just whom determines when any woman shall be forced into labor against her will? You? That is why it is on the ballot and why you will lose.
Women have a voice that is stronger than you can imagine.
Link?
Oh, that would be the missing link…
Please post a link to a list naming those 46 Democrats Vic. I'll wait.
what a fact free load of right wing bullshit.
list the yearly totals of these alleged procedures when the fetus is 100% viable. you can't and you won't. this is the issue that is spiking voter registrations nation wide. trumpsters can't take women's right to vote away, yet, so they're going to make them 2nd class citizens and less equal by removing their rights to privacy and bodily autonomy. this issue is about equality and individual freedom. republicans have seriously underestimated the power of women voters, and all their friends.
Oh ok, here's a link to that too!
Just call me the link man. I'll post a link for every word I say!
Any woman who thinks she needs to vote on abortion is wasting her vote. Women who vote against democrats because they had to give up their jobs because the schools were closed will outnumber them.
Not much for nuance I see.
Did you actually READ that link Vic.
Did you miss the 'fetal viability' part?
Or the 'risk to the patient's life or health' part?
BTFW, just because an Op/Ed in a RW rag makes a claim, it doesn't make it a FACT.
Try harder.
Right, whether it's relevant or not.
You asked and you received.
Your Honor.....The Defense rests.
The defendant is found guilty of posting an Op/Ed that proves NOTHING.
Aren't Op/Ed's OPINION pieces by definition?
Untrue no matter how many times it's repeated.
No one is in favor of this.
'Abortion right up to the point of birth' does not happen - there is no such thing.
Why yes, YES they are. Hence my point that an Op/Ed proves NOTHING.
I think that your point was common knowledge to members here.
Yet the seeder still tried to use one to prove his claim.
So you say.
Do you see it differently? Please explain.
See what differently?
Derp.
I'm sorry that I didn't understand your question.
Yea Yea Yea......just like CRT is not taught in K-12.......even though it has been proven to you more than once that it is.
So you say.
You got that right.
"Yet the seeder still tried to use one to prove his claim."
That's the typical MO.
Plus the links that NEVER back up the alleged 'facts'
That's his MO.
Typical.
Dulay did not post this, I did,
so why are you answering to him as if he did?
[First of all it is inappropriate to flag something as a violation then respond to it.]
[Secondly Dulay is not a him.]
[Thirdly you are only here representing yourself, please don't speak for others]
[deleted]
I wish that we could vote up moderator's comments.
I think you just did!
Yet he (or his administration to be more precise) still managed to get things done that benefited everyone including the middle class. Usually while offending most. Do you think any politician cares about anybody other than themselves? They care about getting reelected more than anything else. Or finding a nice comfortable well paying landing spot in some think tank, PAC, or commentators/panelists/expert job at one of the networks once their political career is over. Wish Trump would do that.
It isn't just Hillary. The US media made Trump because they wanted a candidate that they thought she could beat easily. The media hung on Trump's every word; and allowed him to suck the air out of the room against the other GOP candidates. Unfortunately, the media was backing a broken down nag in Hillary. She alienated anyone that didn't agree with her by calling them "Deplorables"; and ignored fly over country in favor of fund raising on the elitist coasts.
Utter nonsense. From the opening seconds of the first GOP debate in 2015 Trump was calling attention to himself through outrageous behavior. If the media had ignored him they would have been accused of trying to censor him.
No one is to blame for trump but the people who voted for him.
OMG...You have to go back to the late 80's to find a time when the US was in such good shape as during his term.
That is simply an opinion. You are welcome to it but it is not objective fact by any stretch.
BTW, are you familiar with the phrase "Mussolini made the trains run on time" ?
BTW, are you familiar with the term, "Urban Legend'?
Is the economy better now or the way it was under Trump?
Is the border more secure now or the way it was under Trump?
Were gas prices cheaper under Trump?
Were our streets safer under Trump?
Were our trade deals fair under Trump or under Biden?
They are really simple questions, John.
More than you know.
The point being?
If someone has to tell you the point you wont get it.
Mussolini said it best. When asked what it was like to govern Italy, the word he used was "impossible!"
His administration, yeah...OK. Him personally? Oh hell no. If he could have just shut up, he'd have been a decent president.
Not much, no. But saying Trump "cared about the middle class" is moronic, IMO.
You say that, but then you elaborate on how it was all about Hillary and the media support for her. I agree the cable news media handed Trump the nomination. He was a circus sideshow, and they covered him for the ratings and clicks.
Hillary was the worst presidential candidate in my lifetime.
But if Biden had run in 2016, Trump would not have. He would never have been able to win, and he would have seen that.
I understand that prior to the war both FDR and Mussolini got each others points and agreed on many of them, sometimes with Hitler's as well.
They both felt no need for the legislative process. The Nazi press hailed the early New Deal measures wrote that Roosevelt was adopting National Socialist philosophy with his economic and social policies.
Hitler told, US Ambassador Dodd that he agreed with FDR's views on virtue of duty, sacrifice, and discipline need by a nation's people. The Nazi slogan was something like, The Public welfare is more important than the individuals'. This new age demanded a new view with a deemphasis on individual rights.
Mussolini like the New Deal programs because the state needed to direct the economy. He saw similar approaches in agriculture policies in both countries. FDR was reported to have remarked that he was keep a close watch on that "admirable Italian".
Now.
Biden is still stuck with Trump policy.
Gas prices went down under Trump because of the pandemic.
I don't know. Do you have data?
Which trade deals Vic? Trump's mini Nafta was a joke and his 'trade deal' with China was a bust. China came nowhere near the quotas they agreed to. Did JustNews forget to mention it?
Yes they are.
That says it all.
Anyone agree with that?
Then why ask the other questions?
Trump attacked Hillary due to his close relationship with Putin who Hillary hated.
"Trump attacked Hillary due to his close relationship with Putin who Hillary hated."
She was correct about everything.
Boy does that piss them off!
It doesn't matter who he attacked over what.
The fact is he could only have ever won the WH against Hillary.
Explain that to the twenty other Republicans Trump defeated to win the gop nomination...
The media gave Donald much more airtime than the others got. Free publicity.
*sigh*
The reason there were so many Republican candidates is that anybody and everybody knew they could beat Hillary if they could get nominated.
If there was a remotely decent Democrat running (like Biden), most of those Republicans would have waited until they had a better chance...including Trump.
Hahahaha....Wait......Hahahaha
Ahh to be young.....
And still have all my faculties...
There's a lot of bait on that hook.
[deleted]
In other words all you have is a cartoon. Is it on topic? NO
No. This is just not true. Biden made clear that he was talking about the Republicans who still support and believe 45, after the big lie, Jan6 and the continually growing weight of evidence against him. These people, elected officials and otherwise, have pledged their souls to him. The problem with selling your souls to 45 is when you go to cash the check it bounces.
Wouldn't that be those who went out and voted for him?
No. The hard core base trumper is around 25-35% of the GOP voters. Biden did not say,"If you voted for Trump you voted against democracy," however much you may wish that he had. He was careful to draw a distinction (apparently lost on you, or maybe you are just pretending not to understand) between GOP members and MAGA members. There are members of the GOP who do not wish to be associated with the MAGA brand because of its rotten image.
Actually, Biden had to come back the next day and back-peddle the language he used on that infamous night in Philadelphia.
Too little, too late!
No.
There are a lot of people who voted for Trump, now accept that he lost, and are ready for him to fade quietly into the sunset, with an emphasis on quietly.
One thing you can count on...they won't be turning to Biden after that little speech.
I don't see him running again at 82 years old. He's feeble enough now.
I think the use of the phrase "turning to" is interesting. I don't think moderate/independent/swing voters have turned "to" anybody in quite some time. I think they turn away.
They turned away from Republicans during the 2008 financial crisis, they turned away from HRC in 2016, and they turned away from Trump in 2020.
They haven't turned "to" anybody since Reagan, IMO.
Really? What was that speech in Philadelphia for?
A lot of people I would say turned to Obama. He got a lot of people to vote.
Link?
YOU MISSED THAT TOO?
HERE:
Yes, based on what you've quoted from it, it's a VERY little speech.
In fact, it's just one sentence.
You quoted this:
And pontificated on JUST THAT SENTENCE.
But the very next thing that Biden said is this:
THAT sentence utterly refutes your comments on the subject.
Doesn't look like he walked anything back Vic.
I can only shake my head. The 'never trumper' republicans are rich people....
? What in the world do they think donald is....To think he actually gives a shit about them is delusion.
I'm an exception to your stereotype, I've never supported Trump and I'm not rich.
The 'article' was talking about what he feels are RINOs in congress.
If that were true, then Biden and his Administration would not have been so hell bent on walking back the talking points after his first PA speech. It seemed clear to me that Biden implied everybody who voted for Trump was lumped into the same basket.
Rather than just tell Trump to get the hell out of the nation's life, once and for all, conservatives and Republicans and MAGAs act all butt hurt and say Biden is divisive.
Trump has been mega-divisive for 7 years, or more, now. I dont recall anyone on the right blaming him for divisivesness, to the contrary Trump supporters loved it.
The cognitive dissonance is mind blowing.
It isn't going to work John.
Rather than admitting that the Human Fuck Up Machine used the military to threaten those who oppose him- with a tax payer funded National address framed in the background by two Marines. Remember when Democrats threw a hissy fit when one of the Generals went in uniform to survey the damage cause by BLM/Antifa riots to a historic church outside of the White House? This is a thousand times worse. But Democrats are pretending this is the new "normal". They would have impeached Trump instantly if he had tried to pull the same stunt.
The Democrats have been doing anything and everything to "get Trump at all costs" since he rode down the escalator to announce his candidacy. Whether those efforts are legal or not. They have weaponized the IRS, FBI, and DOJ. They have thrown out attorney/client confidentiality and executive privilege. The Democrats have been every damn bit as divisive as Trump; yet I don't recall anyone on the left calling them out for it. To the contrary leftists loved it!
Yes, it is. Too bad you can't tell which direction it is coming from.
Some people have a difficult time comprehending reality.
And the reality is that your president spent the weekend name-calling & smearing millions of Americans.
after 4 years of the same by the previous loser POTUS, trumpsters should be used to it.
For the reactionaries, their Maximum Leader plotting a coup was just fine, the insurrection was just another tourist day at the Capitol and lying about the election results is AOK, but when Biden tells the truth and calls out the MAGA Republicans for what they really are their incessant whining and crying and phony outrage is deafening.
SO your point is Biden is the same as Trump.
good one.
Cry me a fucking river. You and yours cheered when Trump did just that, ad nauseam.
Oh, and BTFW Vic, you've been known to do the same right here.
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Maybe it hits just a little too close to the reality of, "Stand back and stand by?" I mean, who needs Brownshirts when you have the Proud Boys? Thousands of Brainwashed citizens clamoring for a disselected, lying, carpet-bagging ex president to assume once again the mantle of power? When you have elected officials knowingly lying to their constituency about the most fundamental and important part of democracy?
Call a spade a spade. Call fascists Fascists.
I want to direct everyone's attention to POST 7.3.13.
That is the reaction that is incited by a president, who campaigned as a unifier, and then suddenly goes before the nation to call half the country "semi-Fascists."
I'm not the president, nor did I campaign as a unifier. There is a big difference Dulay.
Or antifa.
Yet it illustrates the utter hypocrisy of your comment and its double standard.
It's hilarious to watch you rinse and repeat the 'sweeping generalization' that Biden was talking about EVERY Trump voter despite what Biden CLEARLY stated.
Hahahahaha! That's rich!
No. That's the reaction elicited when a reactionary commentator tries to warp what actually happened into feed for his gristmill of lies.
If "half of the country " were semi-Fascists, the 2020 election would have been much closer. And if one doesn't like how what one writes shows the world at large just who they are and what they truly believe in, then careful reflection and earnest thought are in order.
How about the Easter Bunny? It actually has a greater number of followers than antifa. And if the racist and homophobic right wing agitators would stop holding recruitment rallies at the Capitol, they would kind of peter out.
When the Easter Bunny starts breaking windows, let us know.
Riiiiight. They can't possibly be responsible for their own violent behavior. They're good liberals. It must be somebody else's fault. Those mean right wingers made them do it.
All ya got Jack? Projection, deflection, denial.
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Seems that the GOP has splintered. It's come down to fascists and even more radical fascists.
it's the same old bitter rivalry........ wehrmacht vs. ss
The image from The Magnificent Seven mystified me until I read the reference to Rose Creek.