the darkest moment in Presidential history.
Harry Litman
@harrylitman
Not clear if you could convict him of attempted murder of the Vice President but not clear you couldn't. This has to be the darkest moment in Presidential history.
2:14 PM · Jun 16, 2022·Twitter Web App
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Harry Litman
@harrylitman
·
17h
Holy crap - the "mike pence didn't have the courage" tweet came after he knew the mob was already violent and looking for Pence. Breach of capitol came shortly thereafter, by marauders arguing "Hang Mike Pence." A Proud Boys informant told DOJ they would have killed Pence.
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Harry Litman teaches constitutional law at UCLA and is legal affairs columnist for the Los Angeles Times.
Some people say Trump did not instigate the mob, but what do you call his tweets about Pence, at least one of which was read out loud to a portion of the mob by one of their own?
There is no doubt this was a dark dark day for the US presidency.
"There is no doubt this was a dark dark day for the US presidency."
Indeed it was. But the country easily survived a spontaneous protest that got out of hand. If this had been a planned and organized insurrection, it probably would have succeeded, considering how unprepared the authorities were, despite the warnings of possible violence..
IMO, that is the winner of the most delusional comment of the week.
I really need to find out who printed the t-shirts some of them were wearing. They do some damn fast work, when asked to print something for a "spontaneous" protest.
Also, the people who erected the gallows "spontaneously" - there's a market for carpentry right now, if they're looking for work, although it appeared workmanship might be lacking. But hey, I admire a guy who carries a bunch of lumber in his car. You never know when you might want to "spontaneously" hang the VPOTUS for doing his job.
Jesus H. Christ, what a stupid comment.
Yep.
I guess those "spontaneous shirts" were woven during Trump's incitement speech.
WTF?
Is that a cattle prod tipped Trump flag?
Idiots look like giggling little school kids. Proud of themselves.
I don't know about the flagpole but they're wearing 'sap' knuckled gloves just like my LEO daddy did in '68.
"Jesus H. Christ, what a stupid comment."
Nope, just me playing the devil's advocate and being a smart ass.
Since Pelosi and The DC cops were amply warned, why wasn't the building secured?
Of course, there's also this:
WHEN will you and yours get it through your fucking heads that Pelosi isn't responsible for Capitol security AND that the DC cops have NO jurisdiction on Capitol grounds?
Yeah, they like to stick them up their own asses
So who's responsible for the security of the Capitol complex??
Lil Proud Boyz?
Why don't you get it through your thick skull that she is in charge of the commander of the capital police...which means...she is in charge and responsible.
Your little attempt at defending the witch will always fail.
Pay no attention to the fact less one, bug
Prove it bugsy.
As usual, you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. PROVE that Nancy Pelosi is in charge of the commander of the capitol police.
You could have searched for the answer to your question in the same time it took you post that comment Greg. But here, I'll hold your hand this one time and give you a link:
Capitol Police Bo ard | United States Capitol Police (uscp.gov)
Here's another one:
Oversight | United States Capitol Police (uscp.gov)
The Congress, both the House and Senate, has oversight of the Capitol Police Board.
Hand holding OVER.
So, you and your thumbs up buddies are more than willing to spew dispersions but when FACTS are posted silence ensues.
The fact is, that isn't the first time I've posted those links to illustrate members willful ignorance and I have no doubt that in the future the usual suspects will try and pretend they never saw it and rinse and repeat your question.
Very easily done for the uninformed.
Their are 4 House and Senate committees responsible for the Capitol police.
2 House 2 Senate.
So I was only half right.
Both Pelosi and Schumer were in charge of the Capitol police.
They both fucked up.
Which did not tell the full story.
But we expected that.
I would advise you to tone down on that bold snark since you clearly do not understand what an oversight board is and how it works.
For operational decisions (especially real-time), the top official is the chief of police. Not the oversight board. Oversight boards deal with longer term considerations that focus more on structure, staffing, funding, efficacy, compliance, etc. The board does not deploy forces, etc.
Yeah, I remember reports that some were carrying cattle prods. Also, those gloves. . . and so we can presume those are steel-toed boots? If anyone was injured or assaulted by one of this trio, the injured should demand max payouts for it.
And when will you get it through your skull that had those insurrectionists been presented with a force component, somebody would be mopping up their butts from off the capitol grounds. Properly secured, there would be no way whatsoever, any security or policing agents would allow the Vice-President and the Speaker of the House, the second and third successors to the presidency to be captured.
Thus, a woman was killed being a menace to the capitol forces, all for nothing. Donald Trump was told his activities were futile and bullshit. Which, by the way, Pence 'seconded' when he refused to execute, carry-out, a Trump 'order.' Trump was wrong to even ask it.
But, here you are looking for alternatives to keep the fraud alive. Weak.
Wrong again. Schumer did not become Majority Leader until January 20, 2021. McConnell was the Majority Leader, and ran the Senate, from January 3, 2015 to January 20, 2021.
Very easily done for the uninformed, right?
Your following statement refutes that claim.
Neither Pelosi nor Schumer are members of either of those Committees bugsy.
H/T to Gsquared for correcting your false claim about Schumer.
It's obtuse to link the website while failing to acknowledge it's content.
It should be obvious to our readers that you failed to acknowledge the existence of the Capitol Police Board, whose member are the ones who are actually responsible for the Capitol Police.
Your comment is a perfect example of the idiom 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.'
One has to wonder why you don't seem to care that your claim is utterly eviscerated by documented facts and instead of acknowledging that fact, why you doubled down on the bullshit.
Actually they DO bugsy.
The question is:
The links I provided answer that question.
Either you are incapable of recognizing simple documented facts in the links or you're attempting to gaslight 'our readers'.
Which is it bugsy?
Since you're implying that YOU know 'the full story' please post links that DO tell 'the full story'.
BTFW, when you don't, it will illustrate that you're merely spewing unfounded and unsubstantiated proclamations and in doing so prove that you comments lack credibility.
What I expect is that NO answers or links will be forthcoming and silence will ensue.
Oh and who are this 'we' you pretend to speak for bugsy?
Judge Luttig is correct. On all points and many that aren't even mentioned.
Helsinki told us where Trump's loyalties are.
The darkest moment in presidential history is when the current president makes you look back fondly upon the Carter administration as the good old days.
Wow! That was not well deeply thought out. This all reminds me of somebody 'pining' after a return of the 'lying-est player in the game.' So let me give you a moment of clarity:
The republican party did not leave you-you left it.
Donald Trump, the newly recognized head of the republican party has not changed-you have!
Uh huh, sure
Uh huh, sure—what? You have no choice but to admit the republican and conservative parties are splitting apart (and condensing down) into a hard core of lying, deceptive, and malevolent men and women followers of a cult-leader who is still as dodgy as ever: Donald J. Trump.
Actually I have several choices.
Donald Trump will not let you choose anybody else he does not credit. By now you do know he has a loyalty program the GOP must abide. Rules are rules!
I don't have to abide by what either you or Donald want me to do. Unlike so many others here I can think for myself and make my own decisions. Try it sometime, it is wonderful.
I think for myself with input from others. Republicans not so much. Trump won't allow a 'break' in his planned continuum. Dissent is not acceptable in the Trump universe of people and things!
Uh huh, sure. Good to know you think for yourself with input from people that think just like you do.
I get varied input from conservatives too. I value truth, not bull crap masquerading as a 'big lie.' I betcha can't say the same some conservatives who think that capital is the same thing as integrity.
Sometimes it is difficult following a train of thought that is going down several tracks at the same time.
It is good that you value truth, I value truth, justice and the American way.
And yet, it would appear that you value a good slogan more than its practical application. Tell me, Right Down the Center: What is your opinion of Trump's 'Big Lie'? Please elaborate. . . fully.
Truth justice and the American way is much more than a slogan. The big lie is a slogan, one that CNN is supposedly not going to use anymore.
As for big lies:
Trump lost the election
Joe is not unifying the country
I think you're debating someone with a "Superman complex".
Actually now it is truth justice and a better tomorrow.
You agree Trump lost the election. So why do you fancy a sane and reasonable man would ruin his integrity by setting in motion an attack on the Capitol building through the use of a Stop the Steal styled rally? Donald Trump is not reasoning up to par, is he?
Has Donald Trump taken leave of his rational, sane mind in your opinion?
Biden unifying the country. Tough to do. It is well-established that a 'one-handed clap' does not make for the proper applause. Have you observed there is no one on the republican side of the aisle extending the 'other hand' called for?
If you care about truth, justice, and the 'American way'. . . is it reasonable and sane to think that republicans could vote for something good for all the citizens of this country all the time? Why is it not wrong for republicans to 'do nothing' while the country languishes in its own 'waste'?
He has raised hundreds of millions of dollars since Nov 2020. His reasoning seems to be working.
Yeah, when I enlisted I took an oath to "protect the United States from all enemies both foreign and Republican."
I am not in trumps head and he is not in mine, unlike some here. I am not a psychiatrist so I have no clue about his state of mind. I do know that when someone riots it is them that ultimately makes the decision to do so, for whatever reasons. Of course it is easier for some people to make the decision to riot if they know they won't be held accountable.
Do you think the guy went to kill a supreme court Justice did so because of Schumer and his release the kraken speech? Should Schumer be held accountable?
No one said unification was easy but it is what joe ran on and he isn't even trying. As a matter of fact he is going out of his way to make it worse. I am talking management 101 here. Is joe stupid or just incompetent? If he can't do the job he should step aside and let someone that can do the job actually do the job.
Why does any sane person keep up the excuses why Joe can't do the job while the country languishes in its own waste?
That's pathetic and I won't go farther to tell you what it sounds like. First of all, If you have a complaint about local, state, and federal government: Call "Karen!" I do not have an inclination to discuss the nuances of law jurisdictions and the nuances officials and politicians use, deploy, "okay," or otherwise give you call to bitch and moan daily to the world about. Take your whataboutism somewhere else.
Second, I do not know what Schumer said, but from what I see in the comment exchanges it may be worthy of comparison or not. Whatever the case, it is not for me. BTW, Donald Trump has a republican party in lock-step with his misbehavior in the politics realm. Trump has more privileges granted to him than he deserves.
Third, Joe Biden having spent the better part of his life in the political realm, likely, probably, surely, has forgotten more than many of us have known about politics. This is hard stuff, and having a political 'side' sitting on its votes does not make it easy. Again, you can't clap hands with one 'hand' stuck down at your side. Or can you, Right Down the Center—can you do it?
That last sentence has about as much maturity as a drunk vomiting. So I will not dignify it farther.
Finally, some republicans you are the problem with this country. Nothing is free of your attitudes before and now under Donald Trump it is even worse. It's all so disgusting. This country is the pits and though both sides have been and continue to be a problem for peace in our own land: Conservatives, y'all are the worse, too!
I have given you enough of my time and I wish I could have all of it back! Let's not do whatever the "h" this is again. BYE!
Yeah, I hear you! Will somebody tell these some republicans and conservatives that boxing the citizenry in and steering people into modes of behavior that limit and restrict their rights to be first class citizens and not all conservatives is NOT freedom of expression! In the past, it was how this country ended up with slavery, oppression, and repression.
Will you?
The first identifiable evidence of slavery comes from the Code of Hammurabi in what was Mesopotamia. China and India, didn’t adopt the practice of slavery until much later, around the Qin Dynasty in 221 BC. Apparently, we ended up with slavery because some people wanted others to work without paying for it. Today, we've reversed that and will pay some people not to work.
And then there are those in this country who love the (white majority) privilege of having (shamelessly/shamefully) owned other people and treating otheres with extreme violence, prejudice, bias, lack of respect, and absence of equal/equity freedoms.
BTW, slavery could happen again in this backward-looking, un-progressive, and power-hungry republican party which reserves to itself capability to state what is right and wrong-despite tradition, custom, and Rule of Law.
As far as some people not trusting some white's continuing to view work as a form of slavery (boss/employee=master/slave) by insisting on low-wages for a day's work for whole classes of the citizenry (work they would not do for themselves as beneath their status); one can see why some people say: "Take this job and shove it!"
NOTE: I now view your snark as a drain on discussion and useless. I will reply as I deem appropriate to suspected insults.
I can only hope so.
Can you explicitly state (without the usual obfuscating nonsense on full display for all to see) that not a soul today has benefited from the past slavery of Blacks and second-class citizen treatment of all minorities in this country?
At its inception: Did the founders create this country for the benefit of white people*?
And since then, have slaves, former slaves, and other minorities had to fight to gain whatever 'relief,' equality, and equity they can from this nation's white majority (generally speaking)?
Thee is no 'personal choice' to work for what business owners won't pay and pay to whom. Also, there is no choice to own a business if the majority won't participate in its success (patronize it) or actually labor against it to take it down.
*Credit: "White Like Me" Tim Wise 2008.
Look I get that you are full of it, but don't waste my time with. . . it.
You choose to waste your time, Texan doesn’t.
[✘]
Of course not, especially generational wealth in New England.
Absolutely, it obviously wasn’t for Asians or Black people.
Yes, along with some white people. I never understood why some Black hate Jews.
Huh?
Don't troll me.
You are a determinant of little around here Texan and neither is Trumpism—especially not Donald. Now take your tired old 'saws' away with you!
I answered your questions as honestly as I could, why do you view that as trolling?
@6.1.35. Bye now.
You wasted time being a 'Texan-plainer?' Bye! We're done.
Take care now, y’hear.
Trolling....
Still trolling....
Absofuckinglutely - I'll see you in "Heated Discussions".
I can say whatever I want in that group.
Fuck off.
Wow, that's really something.
I did not tell you to "come to HD".
Yep.
I see you there when I publish another article there because, as a stalker/troll, you won't be able to resist commenting on it.
That was alot of words to say nothing.
Bye
Do you by chance have a word of the day calendar?
I posted an article in HD ("The NewStalkers All Star TDS Team").
The article received 387 comments.
Many of the comments were posted by YOU because YOU trolled my article.
Trolls don't post articles. Trolls post ridiculous comments on articles.
The article was NOT "trolling".
It was "troll bait" designed to attract stalker/trolls.
It worked - YOU took the bait.
No
“Don't troll me“
anyone, absolutely ANYONE, can troll me, but, I might suggest, to do so at your own Mutha FCKN risk !
THIS is a trollish comment.
Like many your comments.
You are not trying to contribute anything to the discussion.
Do you have anything to contribute to "the darkest moment in presidential history"?
That's actually the topic of this discussion.
I enjoy reading relevant comments.
Your comments suck.
Oh my!
Yep, and being an asshole does not necessarily make you a bad president. Now we are learning that a half dead president is only as good as the people he is letting lead him around.
Then disregard the 'asshole' element and only consider what Trump did during his Big Lie campaign. That is, after all, the topic and the point made by the article.
OK, then calling this the darkest moment in presidential history is just another example of the left screaming the sky is falling, constitutional crisis, this time we really have him, Russian puppet, end of Democracy, racist country and all the other things they have been screaming from the mountain tops.
Why say 'OK' and then babble about everything but what Trump did during his Big Lie campaign?
The title of the article is darkest moment in presidential history. I thought you could tell from my response that the whole Jan 6th riot and Donalds part in it is just another over exaggeration the democrats are famous for when it comes to Donald. Maybe they would be taken more seriously if they hadn't said everything he has done is a constitutional crisis over the past 6 years.
There is alot to be learned about what transpired on Jan 6th to help insure it does not happen again. Maybe a bipartisan commission that will look at things besides Trump but with the current TDS pandemic within congress and no cure on the horizon that is not currently possible. Maybe after November they should try again.
Yet Republicans BLOCKED just such a bipartisan commission back in May, 2021. So what makes you think it will be different in November?
Those are a lot of words that don't explain why you said 'OK' then deflected.
I will assume you know that is not a true statement but at least you are not insisting the current commission is bipartisan. Small steps. My hope is that a Republican led committee will look at things that are not Trump
I explained it. It is not my problem if you do not like the answer or can't understand it.
I KNOW that you have no clue WTF you are talking about.
Oh, and just for shits and giggles, READ it and weep:
GOP blocks bipartisan probe of deadly Jan. 6 riot at Capitol | PBS NewsHour
The date of the article is May, 2021.
BTFW, there is NO 'current commission'.
The 'small steps' that I take entail keeping myself informed AND researching/reviewing facts. You and yours should give it a try.
I can't wait to hear about what the commission has found out about that. Maybe after they are done with going after Donald there might be a sentence or two about it
You have no problem with the PotUS attempting to suborn his V.P. to commit an unconstitutional act, bullying him both privately and publicly and 20 minutes after the insurrection had started this PotUS publicly criticized Pence thus adding fuel to the fire?
Tell me a time in history when a PotUS acted against his own V.P., government and the nation at this level?
And Mitchs concern from the wall street journal " Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.) had declared his opposition to the commission before the vote, calling it a political exercise. He suggested that Democrats would weaponize the commission against Republican candidates to keep the controversy over former President Donald Trump ’s actions before and during the riot at the forefront of next year’s midterm-election campaigns."
Gee, kind of like what is happening right now with the Nancy approved committee.
I am hoping learning what can be done better in the future would be a big part of what the commission is for.
You should also understand that the Senate ALREADY investigated and released a bipartisan reported on the Security breaches in June, 2021.
Since I doubt that you give a shit about the reports content, I won't post a link.
Now, care to get closer to the topic and address the actions of Trump before, during and after Jan. 6th?
Merely doubling down on your deflection explains nothing.
If he did all that then charge him. I never said Donald acted correctly during any of the events, but to try and elevate it to the darkest period in presidential history is just the democrats being democrats when it comes to Donald. I think alot of Americans stopped taking everything the democrats said seriously when it had to do with Donald was someplace around constitutional crisis number 14. Or maybe it was threat to democracy number 8, I can't remember.
You are welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to mine.
I hope you don't lose any sleep over your lack of understanding
Ban MAGA from holding office.
[Deleted]
That proves that you didn't know WTF you were talking about.
Small steps.
I understand your desperation to deflect quite well.
Then you're willfully ignoring the content of the seed.
Unless a member of the committee is your Representative and isn't addressing your needs, WTF do you care. Do you think that the Reps on the committee are getting bonus wages?
Did you expect them to build a time machine?
Link?
Yes, constantly. Right now, I'm just finishing up a collection of Louis L'Amour novels. You?
I suggest you go READ it and research it for yourself.
Of course, and I asked you to explain your opinion based on our history:
Trolling today?
Funny, that is a direct quote from The wall street journal and Mitch
Even if you have to make it up
Donald acted like an ass. This does not raise to the level of being the darkest period in the American presidential history.
Wow, you sure you don't want that to be amended to ban Republicans from holding office?
Removed for context - sandy
Both seem extreme. I would be happy with just an age cap and IQ requirement . Say 70 yo and at least a 105 score.
Okay, clearly you are not going to answer my question. Seems odd that you refuse to do so, but so be it.
Term limits are top of my wish list.
On this we agree. Career politicians are a major factor underlying our corrupt, incompetent, self-interested and divisive government.
Funny that the quote is about a vote on a Commission that YOU denied happened just 2 HOURS ago.
It's not funny to read the denials and deflections.
I needn't make up your deflection, it's evident to any member reading it for themselves.
He wants to sick with bs then fuck him..
[Deleted. If you're going to issue an impasse, you don't get to take a final shot at the person you're impassing.]
How so?
I note that you failed to provide a link to support your claim.
Still waiting.
No thanks.
Too funny, u impasse persons are
Does the darkest period in presidential history fall under constitutional crisis or attack on democracy? Or maybe it is a new category all together. It is hard to keep track with the sky constantly falling.
If you do not think this is the darkest period of the presidency then what is? Watergate? Harding as PotUS?
Your posts give the impression that you do not think the public should pay attention or that we should not find anything all that unusual about his Big Lie campaign and all that it entails. Sure, make fun of the author's 'darkest period' but you offer no associated commentary that suggests you find what Trump did to be quite serious and damaging to the nation.
What, in your view, would a PotUS have to do to warrant the people to legitimately declare an historically significant violation of the Oath of Office that is dangerous for the nation?
I am surprised no one has brought up Lincoln and the civil war.
Thing is, to me that was one of the finest hours of the Office of the Presidency.
IMHO, the fact that all of your questions are left unanswered illustrates that the member has no intention of having a discussion.
Thanx for exhibiting "impasse abuse".
I knew a right-winger would eventually weaponize the impasse function.
It almost seems like the 'impasse' is being used by some like a mic drop. They made their point, got in the last word, expressed their opinion and reject anyone challenging their opinion. But then 5 minutes later they pick up the mic again, express another opinion and then drop the mic again only to rinse and repeat this a dozen or so times. Only weak cowards with no confidence in themselves or their own opinion resort to such childish behavior.
This thread is an example of how the "impasse option" can be used as a shield to "protect" the issuer from people who disagree with him/her.
People who can't handle the heat should stay out of the fucking kitchen.