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Opinion | To Serve His Country, President Biden Should Leave the Race - The New York Times

  
Via:  John Russell  •  5 months ago  •  112 comments

By:   The Editorial Board (nytimes)

Opinion | To Serve His Country, President Biden Should Leave the Race - The New York Times
The president's inadequate performance in the debate made it clear he is not the man he was four years ago.

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S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


June 28, 2024, 5:59 p.m




President Biden has repeatedly and rightfully described the stakes in this November’s presidential election as nothing less than the future of American democracy.

Donald Trump has proved himself to be a significant jeopardy to that democracy — an erratic and self-interested figure unworthy of the public trust. He systematically attempted to undermine the integrity of elections. His supporters have described, publicly, a 2025 agenda that would give him the power to carry out the most extreme of his promises and threats. If he is returned to office, he has vowed to be a different kind of president, unrestrained by the checks on power built into the American political system.

Mr. Biden has said that he is the candidate with the best chance of taking on this threat of tyranny and defeating it. His argument rests largely on the fact that he beat Mr. Trump in 2020. That is no longer a sufficient rationale for why Mr. Biden should be the Democratic nominee this year.

At Thursday’s debate, the president needed to convince the American public that he was equal to the formidable demands of the office he is seeking to hold for another term. Voters, however, cannot be expected to ignore what was instead plain to see: Mr. Biden is not the man he was four years ago.





The president   appeared on Thursday night   as the shadow of a great public servant. He struggled to explain what he would accomplish in a second term. He struggled to respond to Mr. Trump’s provocations. He struggled to hold Mr. Trump accountable for his lies, his failures and his chilling plans. More than once, he struggled to make it to the end of a sentence.

Mr. Biden has been an admirable president. Under his leadership,   the nation has prospered   and begun to address a range of long-term challenges, and the wounds ripped open by Mr. Trump have begun to heal. But the greatest public service Mr. Biden can now perform is to announce that he will not continue to run for re-election.

As it stands, the president is engaged in a reckless gamble. There are Democratic leaders better equipped to present clear, compelling and energetic alternatives to a second Trump presidency. There is no reason for the party to risk the stability and security of the country by forcing voters to choose between Mr. Trump’s deficiencies and those of Mr. Biden. It’s too big a bet to simply hope Americans will overlook or discount Mr. Biden’s age and infirmity that they see with their own eyes.

If the race comes down to a choice between Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden, the sitting president would be this board’s unequivocal pick. That is how much of a danger Mr. Trump poses. But given that very danger, the stakes for the country and the uneven abilities of Mr. Biden, the United States needs a stronger opponent to the presumptive Republican nominee. To make a call for a new Democratic nominee this late in a campaign is a decision not taken lightly, but it reflects the scale and seriousness of Mr. Trump’s challenge to the values and institutions of this country and the inadequacy of Mr. Biden to confront him.

Ending his candidacy would be against all of Mr. Biden’s personal and political instincts. He has picked himself up from tragedies and setbacks in the past and clearly believes he can do so again. Supporters of the president are already explaining away Thursday’s debate as one data point compared with three years of accomplishments. But the president’s performance cannot be written off as a bad night or blamed on a supposed cold, because it affirmed concerns that have been mounting for months or even years. Even when Mr. Biden tried to lay out his policy proposals, he stumbled. It cannot be outweighed by other public appearances because he has limited and carefully controlled his public appearances.





It should be remembered that Mr. Biden challenged Mr. Trump to this verbal duel. He set the rules, and he insisted on a date months earlier than any previous general election debate. He understood that he needed to address longstanding public concerns about his mental acuity and that he needed to do so as soon as possible.

The truth Mr. Biden needs to confront now is that he failed his own test.

In polls and interviews, voters say they are seeking fresh voices to take on Mr. Trump. And the consolation for Mr. Biden and his supporters is that there is still time to rally behind a different candidate. While Americans are conditioned to the long slog of multiyear presidential elections, in many democracies, campaigns are staged in the space of a few months.

It is a tragedy that Republicans themselves are not engaged in deeper soul-searching after Thursday’s debate. Mr. Trump’s own performance ought to be regarded as disqualifying. He   lied brazenly and repeatedly   about his own actions, his record as president and his opponent. He described plans that would harm the American economy, undermine civil liberties and fray America’s relationships with other nations. He   refused to promise   that he would accept defeat, returning instead to the kind of rhetoric that incited the Jan. 6 attack on Congress.

The Republican Party, however, has been   co-opted by Mr. Trump’s ambitions . The burden rests on the Democratic Party to put the interests of the nation above the ambitions of a single man.

Democrats who have deferred to Mr. Biden must now find the courage to speak plain truths to the party’s leader. The confidantes and aides who have encouraged the president’s candidacy, and who sheltered him from unscripted appearances in public, should recognize the damage to Mr. Biden’s standing and the unlikelihood that he can repair it.





Mr. Biden answered an urgent question on Thursday night. It was not the answer that he and his supporters were hoping for. But if the risk of a second Trump term is as great as he says it is — and we agree with him that the danger is enormous — then his dedication to this country leaves him and his party only one choice.

The clearest path for Democrats to defeat a candidate defined by his lies is to deal truthfully with the American public: acknowledge that Mr. Biden can’t continue his race, and create a process to select someone more capable to stand in his place to defeat Mr. Trump in November.

It is the best chance to protect the soul of the nation — the cause that drew Mr. Biden to run for the presidency in 2019 — from the malign warping of Mr. Trump. And it is the best service that Mr. Biden can provide to a country that he has nobly served for so long.








The editorial board is a group of opinion journalists whose views are informed by expertise, research, debate and certain longstanding values. It is separate from the newsroom.






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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    5 months ago
It is a tragedy that Republicans themselves are not engaged in deeper soul-searching after Thursday’s debate. Mr. Trump’s own performance ought to be regarded as disqualifying. He    lied brazenly and repeatedly    about his own actions, his record as president and his opponent. He described plans that would harm the American economy, undermine civil liberties and fray America’s relationships with other nations. He    refused to promise    that he would accept defeat, returning instead to the kind of rhetoric that incited the Jan. 6 attack on Congress. The Republican Party, however, has been    co-opted by Mr. Trump’s ambitions  . The burden rests on the Democratic Party to put the interests of the nation above the ambitions of a single man.
 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  JohnRussell @1    5 months ago

IMO the Republican Party is relying on the lack of intelligence, discretion and common sense of enough American voters to vote them and their leader in to run their nation, even if it's into the ground.  However, there's hope for the future, maybe AI and robotics will become sufficiently advanced to have a brilliant and capable robot run the show.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2  seeder  JohnRussell    5 months ago

Trump disqualified himself again with his crazed performance last night.  Yet, among our MAGA, locally and nationally, not a word. 

The Democrats are the only ones who can save the nation. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2    5 months ago

President Biden  is reportedly meeting with Democratic Party leaders in the aftermath of his disastrous first debate appearance.

Dougie Kass, fund manager of Seabreeze Capital Partners LP and a Democratic National Committee insider, said a meeting is being arranged between the president and two  Democratic heavyweights .

"What I am hearing regarding Joe Biden. Ron Klain and Barack Obama are having a sit down with the President today. Jill Biden is insistent that Joe runs," Kass claimed via social media  Friday. "Kamala is furious that she is not being considered as a replacement (Whitmer and Newsom are)."

Kass added, "Interestingly, my neighbor in East Hampton is hosting the Bidens tomorrow. It will be an important tell if the fundraiser is canceled."

The hedge fund manager's claim of Democratic leadership meetings comes after Biden's universally panned debate against  former President Trump  Thursday night.

DNC insider claims Biden meeting with Obama, Democratic strategist following debate disaster (msn.com)

For what it's worth.

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Silent
2.1.1  squiggy  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1    5 months ago

"Jill Biden is insistent that Joe runs,"

... and THAT'S been the drive, all along - she has wanted to be Mrs. President.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2    5 months ago
The Democrats are the only ones who can save the nation. 

Yes.   We are unfortunately dependent upon the DNC to act in a manner that ensures Trump does not win.

What, if anything, will they do?    We shall see.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.2    5 months ago

I think polling averages will tell the tale in two or three weeks. If Trump gets a bump and goes up 7 or 8 points in the polls the pressure on Biden will be unbearable. 

There is a question that rises above all - what or who isnt preferable to a serious threat to democracy?  Is not a somewhat feeble but sound of mind 81 year old preferable to a budding authoritarian who is mentally ill (malignant narcissism is a certified mental illness) ? 

The scary thing is not Joe Biden, it is MAGA. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.2.2  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.1    5 months ago
"Is not a somewhat feeble but sound of mind 81 year old preferable to a budding authoritarian who is mentally ill (malignant narcissism is a certified mental illness) ? 

You might believe this silliness, but few of the voters do. They're more concerned with kitchen table issues, and don't have time to dwell on the labeling and name calling by Biden sycophants.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.1    5 months ago

Ultimately, the DNC needs to do what is required to offer an option that is better than Trump.   That is not a difficult task.   What is difficult is the very quick political marketing required to assure the candidate (and V.,P.) are name-recognized and found to be competent.

Picking a proven Governor seems like a very smart move.   Picking two proven Governors for president and V.P. is even better.

If I were a DNC executive I would be having serious conversations with folks like Tim Walz, Josh Shapiro, and Gretchen Whitmer.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.2.4  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.3    5 months ago
an option that is better than Trump

That could be almost anyone.

If a change is going to be made, which is unlikely, one person I like is Sen. Michael Bennet from Colorado who ran in 2020.  Solid guy.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
2.2.5  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.3    5 months ago

I also like all three of the people you named.  They are excellent choices.

In addition, although he is newly elected as the Governor of Maryland, Wes Moore is a superstar.  He will be an outstanding leader.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
2.2.6  Drakkonis  replied to  TᵢG @2.2    5 months ago
Yes.   We are unfortunately dependent upon the DNC to act in a manner that ensures Trump does not win. What, if anything, will they do?    We shall see.

Yes.   We are unfortunately dependent upon the RNC to act in a manner that ensures Biden does not win.

What, if anything, will they do?    We shall see.

Do you understand? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.7  TᵢG  replied to  Drakkonis @2.2.6    5 months ago

I understand that you put forth an example of the most lame pattern for a ‘rebuttal’.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
2.2.8  Drakkonis  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.7    5 months ago
I understand that you put forth an example of the most lame pattern for a ‘rebuttal’.

Disappointing, but not unexpected. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.2.9  TᵢG  replied to  Drakkonis @2.2.8    5 months ago

Do better than vague insults and quips, there is enough of that going around and it takes no mental effort to engage in that tactic.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
2.2.10  Drakkonis  replied to  TᵢG @2.2.9    5 months ago
 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.3  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @2    5 months ago
Trump disqualified himself again with his crazed performance last night.

Agreed, but it doesn’t matter. Biden all but shat himself on national television.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.1  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @2.3    5 months ago

No, he didn't.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
2.3.2  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @2.3.1    5 months ago

It was bad. There is a reason that Democratic Party politicians and donors are freaking out. There is a reason that even liberal media were characterizing the debate as catastrophic for Biden.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3  Greg Jones    5 months ago

There is nothing that the Dems can do to undo Biden's worrisome performance last night. We on the right have been trying to tell the Dems that Joe was a disaster from the word go, but they wouldn't listen. Talk of him doing the second debate is insane. If Biden hadn't allowed his far-left handlers to bully him into confused submission to their radical agenda, and taken a more moderate path, he might have been reelected. Now it's too late.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1  Gsquared  replied to  Greg Jones @3    5 months ago

You're not pretending that the lying sack of shit, convicted felon, dictator wannabe Trump is on a "moderate path", are you?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Gsquared @3.1    5 months ago

Trump is certainly not a conservative, and he barely leans right

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.2  Gsquared  replied to  Greg Jones @3.1.1    5 months ago

He is certainly not a liberal or a moderate.  

His policies are now "conservative" orthodoxy, and the fact is that you support him.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Gsquared @3.1.2    5 months ago

He's going to be the Republican nominee, and I will be voting for him for the third time. 

Do you support taking payoffs from China, money laundering, influence peddling, rapist, traitorous, sexual abuser Joe?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @3.1.3    5 months ago

The projection.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.5  Gsquared  replied to  Tessylo @3.1.4    5 months ago

Amazing, isn't it?

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
3.1.6  Gsquared  replied to  Greg Jones @3.1.3    5 months ago
I will be voting for him for the third time

That's definitely not something to brag about.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Gsquared @3.1.6    5 months ago

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4  Snuffy    5 months ago

Just read an article that throws another wrench into the discussion. All the money that Joe (and Kamala) have raised so far is governed by campaign finance laws. As such, if Joe drops out the money can only be transferred to Harris. That's a lot of money that is also in the mix. The article doesn't say if Biden can transfer the money directly to the DNC but I would imagine that campaign finance laws would impact that also.

Damn..  

A s   Democrats   grapple with President   Joe Biden ’s poor performance on the debate stage Thursday night, some are wondering   if and how he could be replaced , but campaign finance laws might stand in the way of that.

The campaign to reelect Biden has fundraised no small amount of money — it has $195 million on hand as of the last time campaign funds were   reported . Despite the poor performance, Biden’s campaign is reporting it raised   $14 million   through online fundraising the night of the debate and the following morning.

Still, if Biden does in fact drop out of the race, the money can only be transferred to one woman: Vice President Kamala Harris. Campaign finance laws do not allow for just anyone nominated by a party to receive funds that were not directly donated to them.

Because Harris is on the ticket, however, she would be the only one who could replace Biden while keeping the pot of cash. This is because the funds were already at Harris’s disposal as she is currently on the ticket. 

“She would maintain access to all the funds in the committee and could use them to advance her presidential candidacy,” Shanna Ports, senior legal counsel at the Campaign Legal Center, told the   Wall Street Journal .

Pro-Biden super PACs could keep their money, but campaign finance law prohibits those PACs from  directly coordinating   with campaigns.

One massive money problem Democrats could have if they replaced Biden (msn.com)

 
 
 
shona1
Professor Quiet
5  shona1    5 months ago

Arvo... can't the members of the party vote Biden out and put in a replacement??

Here we do that and there have been numerous leaders booted out and replaced... including current Prime Ministers..

If the members lose confidence in their leader and look like losing an election they will often get the shove and then they resign..

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.1  TᵢG  replied to  shona1 @5    5 months ago

Yes, during the convention (or special session) it is technically possible to do that.

The problem is that the party needs to be clear on who the replacement would be. 

Plus they have to figure out how to fund the remaining campaign ... an absolutely critical factor of USA politics.  

But it is technically possible.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.2  Gsquared  replied to  shona1 @5    5 months ago

Biden "won" the nomination through the votes of millions of party members across the country in what are known as "primary" elections which took place over several months earlier this year.  The result of the primary elections is the selection of delegates to attend the party convention where the candidate is actually nominated and confirmed by the delegates.  The party convention is going to be held in a few weeks.

It would be extremely unlikely for the delegates to go against the will of the voters, although, as TiG stated above, it is technically possible.  If Biden announced his withdrawal and released his delegates, that would free the delegates to select another nominee.

It's quite different from the parliamentary system you live under where the Prime Minister is selected by the members of the party serving in the government.  

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
5.2.1  GregTx  replied to  Gsquared @5.2    5 months ago

The only other nominee that is likely is Kamala Harris, I doubt that is gonna happen.

And if he doesn't announce a withdrawal?...

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.2.3  Gsquared  replied to  GregTx @5.2.1    5 months ago

Harris is likely to be re-nominated as the Vice-Presidential candidate.  I don't believe she will ever go further than that.  

If Biden doesn't announce a withdrawal he will be the Democratic Party candidate for President, bar some unforeseen event.  I can't imagine a revolt among the delegates, but hey, anything is possible.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.2.4  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.2    5 months ago
there is a possibility of being stuck with Biden 4 more years

Which is 1,000,000,000,000,000 times better than the possibility of being stuck with the lying sack of shit, convicted felon, dictator wannabe Trump.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
5.2.6  GregTx  replied to  Gsquared @5.2.3    5 months ago

You don't think if Biden withdraws, that Harris is going to be the nominee?  Interesting, who do you think would? 

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.2.8  Gsquared  replied to  GregTx @5.2.6    5 months ago
You don't think if Biden withdraws, that Harris is going to be the nominee?

I do not, but it is, of course, possible.   To start with, she ran a losing presidential campaign in 2020.  She is not the only potential 2024 replacement candidate who did, but hers was bad enough to cause her to drop out early.  That is something I believe the delegates should and would take into consideration.  There are other reasons she would likely not be the nominee such as her unfavorability ratings in the polls.  Why take a risk with giving the presidential nomination to someone who is seemingly unpopular with the voters?  I know Biden's popularity ratings are nothing to brag about, but he is the sitting President.  That makes a difference.

who do you think would?

The Democrats have a number of potential candidates they can select from including Sen. Michael Bennet from Colorado, Gov. Tim Walz from Minnesota, Gov. Andy Beshear from Kentucky, Sen. Cory Booker from New Jersey, Sen. Mark Kelly from Arizona, Sen. Amy Klobuchar from Minnesota, Sen. Jeff Markley from Oregon, Sen. Jack Reed from Rhode Island, Sen. Mark Warner from Virginia, just to name a few.  The Democrats have plenty more good candidates, all of whom I believe the American public would find acceptable and vastly superior to Trump.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.9  TᵢG  replied to  GregTx @5.2.6    5 months ago

Unfortunately, Harris is the likely nominee.   Not a guarantee, but likely since she was already part of the ticket.    I hope not because I see her as one of the few high visibility potential replacements who could lose to Trump.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.2.11  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.5    5 months ago

There is nothing at all hyperbolic about my comment. 

Let's break it down.

lying sack of shit.

That Trump is a lying sack of shit has been verified by every competent and reliable source.  Do you mistakenly believe otherwise?

convicted felon

Trump was convicted of 34 felony counts.  That is verified and true.  Do you mistakenly believe otherwise?

dictator wannabe

Trump himself said he would be a dictator on "day one".  That is verified and true.  Do you mistakenly believe otherwise?

1,000,000,000,000,000 times better than the possibility of being stuck with... Trump

Trump is not acceptable under any circumstances imaginable.  Not now, not ever.  In fact, Biden is  infinitely better than the lying sack of shit, convicted felon, dictator wannabe Trump, but since we cannot quantify infinity, any number will do.  If you don't like 1,000,000,000,000,000, pick one!

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
5.2.12  GregTx  replied to  Gsquared @5.2.8    5 months ago
The Democrats have a number of potential candidates they can select from including Sen. Michael Bennet from Colorado, Gov. Tim Walz from Minnesota, Gov. Andy Beshear from Kentucky, Sen. Cory Booker from New Jersey, Sen. Mark Kelly from Arizona, Sen. Amy Klobuchar from Minnesota, Sen. Jeff Markley from Oregon, Sen. Jack Reed from Rhode Island, Sen. Mark Warner from Virginia, just to name a few. The Democrats have plenty more good candidates, all of whom I believe the American public would find acceptable and vastly superior to Trump.

Mmmm, why haven't they?....

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.2.14  Gsquared  replied to  GregTx @5.2.12    5 months ago

If your question is why haven't the Democrats selected a candidate other than Biden, do you need to be instructed in the fact that in order to compete for and possibly win the nomination, a potential candidate has to enter the race?  No, I doubt that you need to be instructed in that.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.2.15  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.13    5 months ago

Comments 5.2.4 and 5.2.11 are irrefutably true.  Your responses to both comments don't make any case to the contrary, because you can't.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
5.2.17  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.16    5 months ago

Your comment is nonsensical.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.18  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.9    5 months ago

I think there is an excellent chance Harris would rise to the occasion. The complaints against her have been largely smears. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.19  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.18    5 months ago

I do not share your confidence.

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
6  Robert in Ohio    5 months ago

I was not surprised to see such conclusions reached after the debate performance by President Biden.

President Trump did nothing to change my view that he is not a good choice for the country at this time or any other time in the future.

However, the inadequacy of President Trump to lead out country has nothing to do with the fact that President Biden proved that he too (for totally different reasons) is also not qualified or prepared to be the leader of our country.

I doubt that it will happen, but an open convention (democrats starting from scratch) would be a most interesting spectacle to watch, "must see TV as they say).

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1  TᵢG  replied to  Robert in Ohio @6    5 months ago

The GOP put the nation in jeopardy by irresponsibly, irrationally, and unpatriotically giving Trump the nomination (presumptive at least).

The Ds, and especially Biden, were the only real counter to the GOP's gross negligence.   The Ds, and especially Biden, have done a fine job of fucking this up.

Replacing Biden gives the nation a chance to elect a suitable PotUS.   However it is a big-time political Hail Mary pass.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @6.1    5 months ago

I dont think its a Hail Mary pass at all. 

85% of the vote is locked in , those are the partisans you talk about.  A new candidate could appeal to the other 15% in a new way, hopefully directly taking the argument to Trump's fitness to lead the country.  There would be very little question of Whitmer's "fitness" or Newsom's fitness, or any of these other potential nominees. There might be some question about their policies, but that is what is supposed to take place. Hail Mary passes rarely succeed. A good new Dem candidate would have a high chance of winning in my opinion, as long as they punch Trump in the mouth in an effective way, which frankly is easy to do. 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.2  George  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    5 months ago

If Biden is fit as you claim, why replace him? And how do you explain to the American people that Kamala is unfit to replace him?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  George @6.1.2    5 months ago

Biden looks old and somewhat frail. His mind is sound , and there is has been no evidence he doesnt control his administration. 

Trump is an unhinged near maniacal figure out for himself. 

Even a slow Biden is a far better choice than Trump. 

But if it takes a new candidate to rid our nation of trump pestilence, so be it. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    5 months ago

The Hail Mary pass designation is because:

  • This is uncharted territory.   No major party has ever switched the head of the ticket this late in the campaign.
  • The new candidate would need to secure campaign funding (the average presidential campaign costs ~$1 billion nowadays but they would need less since this would be a shorter campaign).   How this might be done is unknown.
  • The new candidate, unless already extremely well known and liked, would have to win over enough voters to encourage them to actually get out and vote for them.
  • The D party as a whole will be seen as in disarray and that will likely dissuade voters from voting.

The hard-core, loyal Ds will indeed support whoever is their nominee.   But this election will be decided by independents (as always) and they would need to be convinced that the new candidate is better than Trump.   To me this is a no-brainer since virtually everyone who might run for PotUS would be better than Trump.   But you can see in the news and right here on NT that there are people who actually want Trump as PotUS.   This must be factored in when considering the independent vote.

That established, a switch might be the best shot to prevent Trump from securing the presidency.   Biden just transformed an slightly uphill battle into a vertical mountain climb.   While nothing is certain, he seriously hurt his chances.   Instead of dissuading concerns about his age he telegraphed an image of a befuddled old man.   His age was his biggest negative and now that is even worse.   This is like a disaster movie script.

Our nation, politically, is a disaster.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.4    5 months ago
But you can see in the news and right here on NT that there are people who actually want Trump as PotUS.   This must be factored in when considering the independent vote.

I dont think there are any "independents" on NT that prefer Trump, I think the ones that do  are not independent. What the Democrats need is someone to prosecute the case against Trump, which is not difficult.  Steve Schmidt referred to Trump as a "tomato can" in a new video, which is boxing parlance for a helpless target, and I think he is right. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
6.1.6  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  TᵢG @6.1.4    5 months ago

I would disagree TiG, as I pointed out yesterday, when RFK was assassinated , he was the front runner and prospective Dem nominee, granted a different situation than the current, but not really uncharted territory. So it has been done.

Other than that one point I would tend to agree with most of the rest of your assessment,it's a shit sandwich , and a crap shoot.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.5    5 months ago
I dont think there are any "independents" on NT that prefer Trump, I think the ones that do  are not independent.

I agree.   But my point is that we can clearly see the rationale that many use to vote for Trump.   It is irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic IMO but it certainly is widespread.  

There are plenty of superficial voters out there who do not see much more than optics and buy into high level partisan rhetoric.   They are the ones in question.   If everyone was reasonable, this would be substantially easier ... but that is not reality.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @6.1.6    5 months ago

RFK was the front-runner, but RFK was not the presumptive nominee.   The primary was still heavily in progress.   

This is uncharted territory.  


(As an aside, RFK was also not the incumbent either and had started his campaign in March of that year so he was less than 4 months into his campaign.   Biden announced his candidacy on April 25, 2023 so he has been the front-runner for 14 months.)

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Masters Guide
6.1.9  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.7    5 months ago
But my point is that we can clearly see the rationale that many use to vote for Trump.

After Thursday I bet more than a few people will look to vote for Trump because he isn't Biden.  It isn't necessarily because of them being superficial but maybe their concerns as to why Biden has very few (if any) press conferences where he takes questions or refuses to take a cognitive test to quell any fears has been answered.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.10  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.1.9    5 months ago

Anyone who would vote for Trump is of the mindset that he is acceptable to be PotUS after attempting to steal a presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement.   This is someone who would vote for a malignant narcissist, pathological lying scoundrel who demonstrably will throw the nation under the bus (violate CotUS, laws, disenfranchise voters, wreak havoc, etc.) simply to satisfy his ego.

As bad as Biden is, Trump is substantially worse for this nation.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Masters Guide
6.1.11  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.10    5 months ago

Obviously someone voting for Trump must think joe would be worse for the future of the nation. In some cases Thursday solidified their choice. In other cases their concerns about Joe have been proven out

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.12  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.1.11    5 months ago

Yes there are too many people willing to put a scoundrel in the most powerful office on the planet.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.13  George  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.12    5 months ago

The big question is are there more willing to vote for someone incapable of performing the duties due to obvious mental decline than those willing to vote for a scoundrel. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.14  CB  replied to  George @6.1.13    5 months ago

How anybody can trust the words of a pathological liar is beyond reason. But, here 'they' are doing their best to do just that!

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.15  George  replied to  CB @6.1.14    5 months ago

Do you know anything about Biden’s history of lies? Not disagreeing that Trump is pathological but he needs 10 more years to approach Biden’s history of lies, raised by Puerto Ricans? Oil Cancer? Top of his Class? Obama put him in charge of Covid. It’s partisanship at it’s finest to ignore Biden’s 50 year history of lies and racism.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.16  TᵢG  replied to  George @6.1.13    5 months ago

You can't fix scoundrel. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.17  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.16    5 months ago

true - lol

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.18  George  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.16    5 months ago

So what is the cure for Biden’s Alzheimer’s? Queue the deflection that there is no diagnosis completely ignoring the fact that the entire world saw it displayed.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.19  CB  replied to  George @6.1.15    5 months ago

George, maybe you should detail this list of yours. Btw, Biden's senate years is not relevant to his presidency anymore than Trump's 50 years prior to when he ran for the presidency. Get real. Get topical. Even if so about Biden spanning 'nuisance' lies or whatever. . . we need only focus on the 'here and now' which is and will be relevant to the present and the future where we are all headed. 

Donald is reported to have lied 35 times (see Daniel Dale's analysis) during a 90 minute debate and it was all planned and deliberate. . . with most lies rehearsed by the man as a planned delivery. . . with Biden doing is usual misspeaking of a truth that can be 'scored' a mild lie. That is, for any one who is being fair - Biden can largely if not completely be given the benefit of the doubt. Donald can not be because is so intensely repeating the same lie everywhere he is.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.20  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  George @6.1.13    5 months ago
someone incapable of performing the duties

prove it

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.21  CB  replied to  George @6.1.18    5 months ago

Yes, you can't diagnose a person through your tv screen. . . and it is dangerous for you to even try. In fact, stated in the wrong setting and it would get a slap of a likely defamation charge.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.22  George  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.20    5 months ago

It was obvious to everyone watching his performance, even his most ardent supporters who have lied about his mental illness for the last 6 months had their come to Jesus moment, completely forfeit their integrity or admit the truth that was on display for the entire world to see. “Pause”

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.23  George  replied to  CB @6.1.21    5 months ago

Your comment would have some validity if you had ever called out anyone who said trump was mentally I’ll, but since you can’t I will give it the same consideration I would give any blatant partisans opinion.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.24  CB  replied to  George @6.1.23    5 months ago

Okay. Everybody should not perform said diagnosis through the television screens! Wait for medical fact (to concur) and to use as a proper basis.  There, I've done my best for you all, because it simply is not helpful to the overall discussions.

George, the blatant and deliberate lying that Donald insists on presenting in his public character can be scored by civilians (and during Donald's presidency was done so in real time by fact checkers) is real and is proliferating. That level of lying is indicative of a serious pathology of some kind. . . to be determined by a medicine/science practitioners.

Moreover, playing a game of "the dozens" will not help any of us in the end. Such exchanges are a 'fool's folly' at the end of the day, because facts are obscured behind a mountain of whataboutisms lining the path to their ready and proper placement/acceptance.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.25  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  George @6.1.22    5 months ago
As I walked off the stage on Thursday night , at the end of the highly anticipated 'Debate,' anchors, political reporters and all screamed that I had had the greatest debate performance in the long and storied history of Presidential Debates. They all said, effectively, 'Trump was fantastic!'" the former President wrote. Trump Makes 'Greatest Performance in Debate History' Claim | TIME

You cant really believe this guy is not nuts. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.26  TᵢG  replied to  George @6.1.18    5 months ago

It is not a deflection to challenge your armchair psychiatrist claim that Biden has Alzheimer's.   Do you even know what Alzheimer's is?   What the world saw was an old man who was probably over-prepared and clearly unable to think on his feet like he used to.   He is clearly well below the level of acuity (key factor is speed) that one would expect of a president.   That is very disconcerting, but then again, the job of the president is not engaging in presidential debates. 

Trump, in contrast, is a vindictive loose-cannon who believes he is always the smartest person in the room yet there is plenty of evidence that he generally is not smart ("Gettysburg, Wow") but rather well-skilled as a con-man.   Trump's attitude coupled with his concern only for himself makes giving him access to the power of the US presidency irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic.   And I would add dangerous.

Biden, in contrast, is clearly not quick on his feet.   But he has demonstrated that he can give effective speeches, can understand complex dynamics, can make rational decisions.   Given the PotUS has access to any expert advice he wishes, has plenty of advisors identifying pros and cons,  can deliberate on decisions,  etc. Biden can certainly perform the function.   The speed of making decisions can be dealt with when the alternative is much worse. 

In addition, Biden attempts to do what he believes is right for the nation and is presidential.   Trump is a flaming asshole who clearly will do what is in the best interest of Trump — not the nation.

Your comments (continually) imply (scream) that you prefer Trump over Biden.   You want that loose-cannon armed with the powers of the presidency simply because Biden is arguably too old to be PotUS?  

Under normal US politics both Biden and Trump would have been eliminated.   But these are bizarre times.   Trump is unacceptable.   Prop Biden up.   The situation sucks, but we can work with Biden and cannot do anything to fix Trump.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.27  George  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.25    5 months ago

Typical deflection to Trump from Biden’s obvious failure at the debate.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.28  CB  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.26    5 months ago

Well said. Also, I remarked on a different discussion on debate night that I liked the new format of debating used by the two participants and CNN. However, its newness could have been a problem for contestants whom had think on their feet what to engage in and what to let slip by (in the interest of their own mike being 'offed.'  It can be seen that Biden seemed 'stuck' time and time again by one of the moderators cautioning him that time is up and I can suggest to this room that the lights on the 'dash' was blinking or fully lit. So, it is possible that "elaborated things" were cut off (or would be cut off) in mid-sentence.

New formats can come with their own learning curve-in practice. That said, a second debate could actually show both candidates (or others) properly prepared and practiced to state within the narrow parameters. Case in point: In the debate. . . both candidates who in the old formats would talk to the 'ng' degree in-spite of warnings by moderators. . . literally and often were told that their answers were too 'short'. . .with many seconds (e.g., 20 or 60 seconds) left to continue with more of what they might wish to add.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
6.1.29  GregTx  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.26    5 months ago
What the world saw was an old man who was probably over-prepared and clearly unable to think on his feet like he used to. He is clearly well below the level of acuity (key factor is speed) that one would expect of a president.

If what you mean by over-prepared is being exposed to more information than he could process, then I  completely agree. As far as the rest of that, it's spot on.

That is very disconcerting, but then again, the job of the president is not engaging in presidential debates.

Exactly.....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.30  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  George @6.1.27    5 months ago

That pile of horseshit is from the mind of Donald Trump today, not me. 

Mentioning his insanity is not a deflection it is a reality. 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.1.31  George  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.26    5 months ago
It is not a deflection to challenge your armchair psychiatrist claim that Biden has Alzheimer's.   Do you even know what Alzheimer's is? 


Do better than vague insults and quips, there is enough of that going around and it takes no mental effort to engage in that tactic.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.32  CB  replied to  GregTx @6.1.29    5 months ago

We are not defending the indefensible, but nor will we let anybody steamroll Biden or Trump for their purposes of propaganda or exploitation.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
6.1.33  GregTx  replied to  CB @6.1.32    5 months ago

Fight the good fight CB..

Sorry forgot..../s

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.34  TᵢG  replied to  George @6.1.31    5 months ago

Is that all you have as a 'rebuttal'?   Whining that you were insulted by my factual observation?

Well, George, you claiming that Biden has Alzheimer's is absurd.   You have never claimed nor evidenced an M.D. or D.O. degree in psychiatry and you clearly have not had the opportunity to make a clinical diagnosis of Biden.

For you to think you can diagnose Alzheimer's by watching a debate shows that you do not even know what Alzheimer's is.


You chose to not even try to rebut the body of my post to pretend that my only response was on your ridiculous armchair diagnosis.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.35  CB  replied to  GregTx @6.1.33    5 months ago

I will continue to fight the "good fight." Thank you very much!

Now then, with that in mind, since you are supporting Donald and since MAGAs are known to lecture liberals about their use of identity politics, perhaps you can tell me, us, what your impression is of Donald deploying IDENTITY POLITICS ("black jobs/hispanic jobs") during this past week's presidential debate. 

I would like to read your thoughts on whether or not Justice K. Brown has a 'black job.' If Justice Sotomayer has a "hispanic job," and if say, Justice Barrett may have a "woman job."

Please proceed.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
6.1.36  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  TᵢG @6.1.8    5 months ago

I should explain why I think he could have claimed presumptive, or likely nominee.

If I remember my history right,  I was 6 when he died, he had just won the Ca primary, he was a Senator for the state of NY and would have taken that state, and was on the way to Chicago for that states primary, if I remember right back during that time frame winning those 3 delegate rich states was considered the democratic trifecta,usually clinching the nomination.

Then there is the Kennedy mystic of this countries Camelot era that was stolen when JFK was killed,and there was no bigger defender of his brothers legacy , than him.

IF he had lived, and been the nominee, it would have been a rerun of Kennedy v Nixon, and I think Kennedy would have won, avoiding the mess of Nixon all together.

Now if that had happened, the course this nation has taken from then to now of course would be entirely different politically.

I just thought of this , in 1968, there was no incumbent advantage , the incumbent declined to run for another term even though he could have.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7  Tessylo    5 months ago

President Biden is indeed qualified and prepared to be President AGAIN.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
7.1  George  replied to  Tessylo @7    5 months ago

He meets the qualifications set forth under the constitution but he is wholly unfit to perform the duties of being the president of the United States. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  George @7.1    5 months ago

That is true of #34

Not President Biden

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Masters Guide
7.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @7    5 months ago

Trying awful hard to get people to ignore what they have been concerned about proven on National TV

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
8  Mark in Wyoming     5 months ago

I read this morning, that the Biden family has headed to Camp David for the holiday.

The article in the Business Insider, speculates that the title of this article may very well be discussed by the immediate family members.

We will just have to wait and see what comes about.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.1  George  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8    5 months ago

Hopefully the family will perform an intervention to prevent further elder abuse.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
8.1.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  George @8.1    5 months ago

I think it is a very big IF, if it's discussed at all.

All we can do is wait.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @8    5 months ago

I guess we will see what president jill wants to do. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.2    5 months ago

So now she is the President and not Obama or 'his handlers'??

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.2.2  CB  replied to  Tessylo @8.2.1    5 months ago

Or the "scary" black woman Vice-president who has what I guess Donald would call a "Black job."

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.2.3  GregTx  replied to  Tessylo @8.2.1    5 months ago

I'm not sure who is pulling the strings, but it damn sure isn't the one who can't tie his own shoes....

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.2.4  George  replied to  GregTx @8.2.3    5 months ago

256

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.2.5  George  replied to  CB @8.2.2    5 months ago

The only people afraid of the Scary Black Woman are democrats, that’s why you hear zero pundits talking about her replacing joe. Even they know she is unqualified, and there aren’t enough knee pads in the world for her and Doug to convince everyone before November.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  GregTx @8.2.3    5 months ago

The former 'president' - correct - the former 'president' fat pig couldn't reach his own shoes

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.2.7  CB  replied to  George @8.2.5    5 months ago

That comment is a disgrace.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.2.8  George  replied to  CB @8.2.7    5 months ago

It is 100% accurate, which explains the new canned response from you.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
8.2.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  George @8.2.5    5 months ago

Got a black magic woman
Got a black magic woman
I've got a black magic woman
Got me so blind, I can't see
That she's a black magic woman
She's trying to make a devil

outt

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9  CB    5 months ago

At the end of the day, the question becomes simple: Do you want a liar, cheater, thief of your personal rights, privileges, and freedoms:

1. Unexpanded.

2. Hamstrung.

3. Hodged-podged from state to state (like a woven quilt),

4. Permanently" conservatized. (Project 25'ed). 

5. Given to you by a permanent SCOTUS with personal and private partisan interests in conservative goals and ideas.

6. Drawn up under any 'new' additions to conservative ideas that will not take stock of YOUR VALUES.

7. All of the above.

It's that simple. Play to win this election or lose it and regret it for yourself and your next generations, plural. 

"We" are being played, by people who are dismissing everything you are about! They come talking 'game,' but its a strategy to get you talking while they steal everything accomplished by liberals one step at a time. 

Liberals, your gains are seeping out (like a slow leak in a balloon a little at a time). . .and all the while those who are talking to you are distracting you, are laughing that you seemingly have not caught on. Wake Up!

MAGA's next act if it wins this election and the House and Senate-through hook or crook (either way is okay with them). . . is to LEGISLATE democrats into a small box. . .and have a conservative SCOTUS to not defend your 'place' inside it. (You will have no one who will here your SCREAMS of dissatisfaction. It will be YOUR OWN FAULT. You will have let it happen to 'You.')

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10  CB    5 months ago
At Thursday’s debate, the president needed to convince the American public that he was equal to the formidable demands of the office he is seeking to hold for another term. Voters, however, cannot be expected to ignore what was instead plain to see: Mr. Biden is not the man he was four years ago.

And whether or not he is not the same(and just had a sick or off night), if he can not be persuaded to 'retire' from the campaign/race. . . we need a democrat to uphold democracy against Donald at the end of the day! No two-ways about it. Get Biden to retire or VOTE for the man and his Vice-President. . . because 2025 will be a banner year for democracy or its promised doom. Stop listening to people who "nay-nay" say but can't be truthful enough to CRITICIZE the biggest liar (highly probable) to ever be accepted in a presidential major campaign. 

Let me be plain and simple, I would rather have the old, old, guy who is SANE and cares about my life and that of my children, than the old, old, guy who is a functional delusional lunatic! And, by the way, if push comes to shove BOTH of these old, old, guy will RELY ON THEIR STAFFS to push whichever agenda/s. . . and keep the course!

Do not let anybody shy you on about it. If you think you have seen liberal repeals to date. . . let conservatives win this fall. . .that is when the 'RUDE AWAKENING' is scheduled to begin in earnest. And, conservative SCOTUS will insert itself into the 'raping' of liberal wombs, no pun intended, up and down the political landscape. Liberals if you want a LEGACY for your children you can be proud up. Get a new candidate or STICK it out with the one you got! This November, it will be put politically before liberals to RIDE OR DIE!

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Masters Guide
11  Right Down the Center    5 months ago

Big hit for Joe

 
 

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