It's time to start firing unvaccinated people: Trump fans are overdue for a lesson in consequences | Salon.com
By: Amanda Marcotte (Salon)
on the flipside, there's plenty of employers hiring.... as long as you can show proof of vaccination... bwah ha ha
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
For those readers who only peruse headlines — which, as anyone who has access to news website analytics can tell you, is a shockingly huge percentage of readers — the impending first round of vaccine mandate deadlines are looking like very scary business indeed. Not for people who are afraid of needles, mind you, but those who are afraid that mass resignations and firings — and subsequent staffing shortages of essential workers — are coming.
"These Health Care Workers Would Rather Get Fired Than Get Vaccinated," reads a Monday morning headline at the New York Times.
"New York Hospitals Face Possible Mass Firings as Workers Spurn Vaccines," reads another from Friday.
"Rural Hospitals Worry They Will Lose Staff Because Of Biden's New Vaccine Mandate," warns an NPR headline from over the weekend.
"New York May Use The National Guard To Replace Unvaccinated Health Care Workers," read another.
The state of New York is the first test case of what actually enforcing a government-issued vaccine mandate looks like. Monday is the deadline for health care workers in the state to get the jab or get the pink slip. As the New York Times reports, "resistance to vaccine mandates has so far stopped most states from threatening to fire unvaccinated workers." But New York's newly appointed governor, Democrat Kathy Hochul is calling the unvaccinateds' bluff. Rather than caving in and letting them keep their jobs, she is prepared to call the National Guard to fill in the shortages left by the upcoming firings.
Despite the media doom and gloom, the truth is Hochul needs to be commended for her spine. And every other Democrat who wants to see this pandemic actually come to an end (which should be all of them!) should follow suit. Staffing shortages are a pain, especially during a pandemic, no doubt. But staffing shortages are a minor issue compared to the damage being caused by the unchecked spread of COVID-19, which is increasingly due to one cause: right-wingers who have made refusal to get vaccinated a culture war and identity politics issue. Unless such folks start tasting real consequences for their behavior, the U.S. is going to see another dark winter, as the virus continues to wreak havoc on our economy and health care system. Putting up with staffing shortages is a small price to pay to make sure that Trumpers — a class of people clearly unused to the idea that actions have consequences — actually start feeling real pressure to get vaccinated.
These dread-inducing headlines and anecdotal stories about health care workers quitting are concealing what is actually the far more important story: Vaccine mandates work.
A few paragraphs under the scary headline about "mass firings" in the New York Times comes the actual numbers: "As of Sept. 22, state data shows, around 84 percent of New York's 450,000 hospital workers and 83 percent of its 145,400 nursing home employees had been fully vaccinated." That is almost 10 percentage points over what the same state data set shows as the overall vaccination rate in the state. There are similar positive results in New York City, where Mayor Bill de Blasio mandated vaccines for public school workers, resulting in a 90% vaccination rate among teachers, which is 9 percentage points over the city average. Hospital systems that instituted an earlier vaccine mandate have seen even better results. New York Presbyterian, for example, set the deadline for last Wednesday and already 99% of the system's 48,000 workers are vaccinated.
The effectiveness of mandates has been documented outside of New York as well.
As Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel, a former White House health policy adviser who works for the University of Pennsylvania now, told Fierce Healthcare, "healthcare systems that have actually mandated this" have " retained over 99% of their workforce." The article goes on to list over a dozen hospital systems that have implemented mandates. In every case, the fraction of workers lost was tiny — certainly well worth losing to protect patients and the larger community from COVID-19.
There's been a similar success at United Airlines, which will start putting workers on leave this week if they don't get vaccinated. A full 97% of employees have thus beat the deadline.
The number of unvaccinated health care workers is still alarmingly high in New York, and fears of staffing shortages are real. But part of the problem is that the refusal to get vaccinated is being driven by partisan politics. As the New York Times reported about vaccination rates Monday morning, "the racial gaps — while still existing — have narrowed," but the "partisan gap, however, continues to be enormous." The geography of vaccination rates mirrors the political geography, to the point where "almost every reliably blue state now has a higher vaccination rate than almost every reliably red state." The gap also shows up on the county level, with death rates much higher in Trump-voting counties than in ones that went for President Joe Biden.
There's a lot of reasons conservatives cite for this refusal to vaccinate, though ultimately it all boils down to a desire to "own the liberals." But a lot of this pettiness is intertwined with a right-wing bravado. To be blunt, white privilege has long shielded many conservatives from the concept of facing consequences for their actions. We see this in a lot of obnoxious right-wing behavior lately, from tantrums over COVID-19 mitigation measures in public places to the attempted insurrection on January 6. Who can forget how many of the arrested Trump supporters expressed genuine shock that they might actually face a legal consequence for participating in a violent effort to overthrow democracy? This lack of familiarity with consequences is likely why there are so many holdouts, even in the face of vaccine mandates. Bluntly put, a lot of them probably don't think that leaders are serious about these threats to fire them, and won't believe it until it happens. As with the Capitol rioters, there's a persistent disbelief on the right that they will ever face real consequences for their bad actions.
This right-wing overconfidence is why sites like HermainCainAward and SorryAntiVaxxer have such popular followings. Watching people pay with their lives after displaying such certainty their anti-social behavior will never result in a consequence may not be the most righteous use of people's time, but is understandable when the rest of us are suffering because of Trumpist hubris. The problem with highlighting COVID-19 deaths to scare the Trumpers straight, however, is that they can always tell themselves that they're not going to be the ones who die since 98.4% of people in the U.S. do survive.
That's precisely why vaccine mandates are so important. The absolute certainty of losing a job is going to motivate a lot more people than the more abstract risk of dying of COVID-19.
But for that threat to become real, well, it has to be real. This means that it's not enough to threaten to fire people who won't get vaccinated. Employers and governments have to follow through. Hochul is right to do whatever it takes to make sure that the unvaccinated get their pink slips this week. If leaders back down in the face of vaccine resistance, the Trumpers will double down, and continue spreading COVID-19 in a pathetic effort to "own the liberals." Threats cannot be empty, especially when facing stubborn people who believe themselves impervious to consequences. Threats need to be backed up with action. It's time to start firing the unvaccinated.
trolling, taunting, and off topic comments may be removed at the discretion of group mods. NT members that vote up their own comments or continue to disrupt the conversation risk having all of their comments deleted. please remember to quote the person(s) to whom you are replying to preserve continuity of this seed.
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
this has got to be a godsend to some businesses. a legitimate reason to cast off some useless relics on the payroll and acquire some fresh talent.
please help keep christo-fascism and white supremacy off the NT front page by commenting and voting up seeds like this one - thank you
What fresh talent are you talking about?
In case you hadn't noticed there is high unemployment along with millions of jobs to be [filled]
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What do these people plan to live on when they quit their jobs? Unemployment checks are not an option. You don't get that check if you just up and quit because you don't like an employer's policy
In my department alone we had 5 resign and 40 claiming religious exemptions. And we are one of the smaller departments in the Medical Center.
I don't understand people who work in a medical setting being anti-vaxxers
No one is going to tell them what to do.
They definitely won't have anyone telling them what to do when they're sitting on their asses at home waiting for a check...then the check doesn't come so they're reduced to panhandling.
Then can we call them lazy, takers & welfare queens?
I don't see why not
oh boy oh boy oh boy - fun fun fun.....
I find that remembering just how stupid they are while I'm ridiculing them, increases the depth of verbal cruelty I'm able to attain...
my grand daughter's birthday party this weekend was cancelled because of a positive covid test by my nephews vaccinated wife. unfortunately, my niece is anti-vax for religious reasons. their grandfather is 92. scratch the surprise party, as if my 3 year old grand daughter would know the difference.
They don't. Five is the best age for birthday parties. Then they don't another one after that
Yeah, I kind of went off on another seed because of the diarrhea dripping from their mouths & it all started because I agreed with Tess...
I don't blame you.
Right now there's a juicy little comment on a seed that some one left me. I hope every one sees it before a site mod takes care of it. It deserves a real ticket
oooo.... gonna have to go check that out.
Damn, looks like I missed it.
I was told to fuck off
Huh, thought that was a no-no and there was a big discussion.
There was but apparently someone didn't wander into Meta and get informed
meh, he's too stupid to read beyond the headlines and usually doesn't address the topic anyway...
As surprising as it is, 20 some odd years back my ex-wife was then a Respiratory Therapist (she's long since gone on to get her nursing degree and license but that's a different thing). Back 20 some odd years ago you could still smoke in the hospital. The respiratory department always was the place with the most smokers and they were hard-core smokers at that. One would think they would have been among the first to realize the dangers of smoking but they were the worst in almost every hospital she worked at in the state.
I went to school with a young woman who was getting her BS in Respiratory Therapy and she was a smoker. It's hard to quit once you start down that path
I almost deleted that before I read your optional note. so I sent PH a link thru chat instead, ha ha ha
Thanks. I wanted a site mod to take care of it so he would get points. Only it should have been a COC violation
Turned 67 last week. Nobody gave me a party.
Well, if nobody told ya, Happy Birthday!
I just got my flu shot yesterday from the nurse in Occupational Medicine here and we were talking about people declining flu shots and co-vid shots - she's tired of 'arguing' with them and is so tired of the all the deaths due to ignorance. It's unreal. Those folks need to be terminated for not having their Co-vid shots and lose any benefits. I don't understand that ignorance - losing your benefits and livelihood due to ignorance.
"Yeah, I kind of went off on another seed because of the diarrhea dripping from their mouths & it all started because I agreed with Tess..."
I told you Veronica, girlfriend, that there is no room for truth on certain 'articles' and plus I have a fan club here that loves to flag and have deleted every goddamned comment I make.
Yeah, and I can't tell you how many times I've kicked the habit only to go back again - hopefully have quit for good this time, over two years out.
You are so right...
Given that it comes from Salon, I'm mildly surprised to learn they only favor "firing Trump fans".
I would have expected them to support "firing AT Trump fans".
Silly boy! Liberals don't know how to fire guns...at least that's what you all keep telling us
This liberal owns a few thousand yard rifles.
We have a few, too
Hear, Hear elk season is in a few weeks!!
There are quite a few liberals that shoot and hunt, we just don't incessantly talk about it.
Or wave their guns around as if they are an extension of their penises...
Do I want to know what a yard rifle is?
I don't have a yard rifle, but I think they are for shooting varmints. We have 2 pistols and one shotgun. Need to get more the right wing apocalypse
sorry, but I couldn't find the story anywhere in the teabag or conspiracy media...
I read yesterday where Houston, NC, and I believe NY fired a number of employees for refusal to get the vaccine.
Hope they enjoy living in moms basement.
They are just lazy, takers that need a swift kick in the ass and stop being welfare queens...
LMAO, that they are.
It is time to remove anti vaxers from us so that we stand a fighting chance to fight covid. There are thousands of uncharted islands that would suffice for relocation.
I agree with you (hope that won't get me a ticket and removal).
there are safe places for you to comment and not so safe places to comment...
I just took offense since saying "I agree" should NEVER bring about a deletion or a ticket regardless of when or where it is placed. That is cutting off someone's opinion & I thought that was a no-no on this site, but I guess I was wrong.
If I get a ticket over my comment, so fing what.
Not in this place....No tickets....
Cool.
United Airlines once again confirmed that any employee that is not vaccinated will be terminated. I believe the date is the middle of Oct to be fully vaccinated.
they're having a job fair at the denver airport this weekend for all the jobs that will soon be available.
What I think people fail to realize is that companies can impose what rules they want, (which is ironic since it's usually right wing staunch capitalists that complain the most), up to and including masks and vaccines. There are LOTS of videos on youtube of people waltzing into a store insisting that they don't have to wear a mask despite store policy.
That's usually when the cops or security shows up and informs them just how wrong they are. One of my favs, (i'll see if I can find it), is a self entitled soccer mom driving a merc SUV being escorted from a Safeway as she screams and hits the store security guard while she bitches that she isn't required to wear a mask. The cops show up, listen to her for a bit then she resists the cop trying to escort her to her car to get her to leave...big mistake..they slam her stupid ass to the concrete, throw on the cuffs and take her to jail...her pretty pink "bedazzled" cell phone still on the concrete.
Fucking love that shit.
Did the phone break? That would have been a fitting end to this story
According to last night's evening news it was 593 employees and they have already started the termination process -
They're not messing around are they?
They don't seem to be. If death numbers start hitting new records over the winter we'll see much, much more of this. I suppose though those new COVID antiviral meds could hit the market sometime next year. Pfizer's went into testing this week. It's one of three new proposed oral antiviral meds being developed.
I read in another article that about 300 of the 593 have run out and gotten vaccinated (1st dose), so I guess their beliefs weren't very strongly held
UAL has 67,000 US employees so 593 is not even a drop in the bucket. I'm sure that when they saw that UAL wasn't going to negotiate with them reality set in.
Yeah... I figured some would.
The medical center I work at is in on a lot of research regarding Covid and new advances in fighting it. And still we have people that work here that refuse the vaccine - well they used to work here - they are resigning in droves before they get their asses fired - where they think they will find jobs with no vaccine is beyond me.
"In Hell" will be fine....
They should also not be able to receive any unemployment benefits.
I don't think they will. If some one is fired for just cause (like not following company policy) they are ineligible for unemployment
They can get SNAP and that should be denied also.
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a lesson in consequences
I think many blacks, most who probably vote democrat, are going to be pissed they are going to be part of those "consequences", since this demographic is the one with the lowest vaccination rate by population.
I wonder how they will feel that they are being fired because they are being bunched in with those Trump supporters?
" The largest increases in vaccine uptake between July and September were among Hispanic adults and those ages 18-29, and similar shares of adults now report being vaccinated across racial and ethnic groups (71% of White adults, 70% of Black adults, and 73% of Hispanic adults). Large gaps in vaccine uptake remain by partisanship, education level, age, and health insurance status."
" The largest remaining gap in vaccination rates is by partisanship, with 90% of Democrats saying they have gotten at least one dose compared to 68% of independents and 58% of Republicans."
If they are choosing not to get vaccinated for political reasons, it's local to do so.
You seem to be fascinated by that racial statistical finding which has all but disappeared this week.
For the record
29% of 205 Million white people is still 59.4 million
30% of 44 million blacks is still only 13.2 million
27% of 60 million Hispanics is still only 16.2 million
Blacks & Hispanics combined are still less than half of the un-vaccinated,
in other words, 2 out of three un-vaccinated dumb-asses are white people.
White, republican, above average income, some education after HS with Health Insurance.
.
That's about the same statistics based on rural vs. urban too.
Darwinian...
Brett Kavanaugh just tested positive for Covid. I don't want him to die or anything, but it wouldn't bother me one bit if his pecker fell off.
Wouldn't bother me if he had to resign due to health reasons
He's asymptomatic so he isn't even experiencing any discomfort. And he's had the vaccine since January.
Weird that the keep testing GovCo officials..............even when they don't show any signs.