Nerm_L

Democrat's Insurrection Meme

  
By:  Nerm_L  •  Opinion  •  4 weeks ago  •  161 comments

Democrat's Insurrection Meme
What happened at the Capitol on January 6 has become 'just another day in America'.

Democrats have turned the Capitol attack on January 6 into a meme of insurrection.  Democrats are demanding special committees, investigations, and commissions to understand and prevent the next insurrection.  But Democrat's minds are already made up; Democrats aren't going to change their opinions.  Democrats won't use their self-righteous outrage and investigative zeal to prevent another insurrection because that is impossible.

The only thing Congress can do to prevent an insurrection is to turn the United States into a police state.  And the danger is that a police state will morph into a tool used against political opponents.  

Democrats' insurrection meme is really nothing more than dirty politics to gloss over Democrats' political problem with violent protest.  Democrat politicians want a 'commission' to investigate the insurrection only because of the optics.  Incumbent Democrats would rather use images of the Republican protest at the Capitol than images of Democrat protests for their campaign advertising.   Violent protests in support of a Democratic political agenda have been happening for years but the optics doesn't help Democrats.  

The actual event at the Capitol on January 6 was a protest like many other protests that have occurred over the last few years.  What happened at the Capitol was not unique in attacks on law enforcement, vandalism, or acts of intimidation.  What happened at the Capitol is not unique in attempts to interfere with government functions.  What happened at the Capitol isn't even unique in threats of violence directed toward elected and appointed government officials.  The only individual deliberately killed at the Capitol on Jan. 6 was a protester; live ammunition was used on Jan. 6 and not rubber bullets, flash bangs, and tear gas. 

What happened at the Capitol on Jan. 6 has become 'just another day in America'.

What made the event on Jan. 6 different is that Republican supporters engaged in the same type of organized, coordinated protest that Democrat supporters had engaged in for several years.  Republican supporters used the same tools and methods to organize a protest as Democrat supporters have used for several years.  Naturally those optics shift attention away from Democrats' violent protest problem.  

The good thing that comes out of the Jan. 6 protest at the Capitol is that Democrats now have political cover to address violent protests by Democrat supporters.  Democrats can claim that harsh measures are necessary to prevent another 'insurrection' and blame Republicans for the need to impose those harsh measures.  But those harsh measures will also be used to stop violent protests in support of a Democratic political agenda without blaming Democrats.

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Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1  author  Nerm_L    4 weeks ago

The 'insurrection meme' allows Democrats to blame Republicans for cracking down on their own violent protest problem.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @1    4 weeks ago

If you can't see the difference between people protesting for equal treatment and people storming the capitol to stop an election being certified, there is nothing I can say.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1.1  JBB  replied to  Ender @1.1    4 weeks ago

I can't believe that any American would ever so maliciously and wilfully attempt to misinform their fellow Americans on the Fourth of July!

It would require something evil to do that today.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.1.2  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Ender @1.1    4 weeks ago
If you can't see the difference between people protesting for equal treatment and people storming the capitol to stop an election being certified, there is nothing I can say.

Have violent protests stopped?  Or are they no longer newsworthy?

Was the attack on the Capitol the last violent protest?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.3  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @1.1.2    4 weeks ago

There will probably always be protests in some form or another.

I don't consider storming the capitol protesting. Just like the people that planned on kidnapping a mayor. Not a form of protest.

And tit for tat there is right wing violence that occurs such as "Jews will not replace us" and killing someone by running them over with their car.

One side is not innocent.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.2  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @1    4 weeks ago

Of the hundreds of violent insurgents arrested for the January 6th Insurrection in Washington DC, how many turned out to be ANTIFA? ZERO! BLM? ZERO!

How many were even Democrats? Not a single one!

Your attempt to turn the table of blame is a failure...

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
1.2.1  bugsy  replied to  JBB @1.2    4 weeks ago
How many were even Democrats? Not a single one!

You know this how?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.2.2  JBB  replied to  bugsy @1.2.1    4 weeks ago

Lists of those arrested are available online...

They're all gop Trump fans. Everyone of them.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Junior Silent
1.2.3  SteevieGee  replied to  bugsy @1.2.1    4 weeks ago

That's what the commission is for.  If any of the insurrectionists were BLM or antifa they can find out.  Republicans are against a commission because they know they're behind it.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.2.4  author  Nerm_L  replied to  SteevieGee @1.2.3    4 weeks ago
That's what the commission is for.  If any of the insurrectionists were BLM or antifa they can find out.  Republicans are against a commission because they know they're behind it.

Why limit the investigation to only the attack on the Capitol?  What happened on Jan. 6 is only one violent protest out of many over the last six years.

Insurrection is a violent uprising against any government; not just against the Federal government.  A violent uprising against city government is also insurrection.  Using violence and threats of violence to establish autonomous zones is insurrection and rebellion.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.2.5  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @1.2    4 weeks ago
Of the hundreds of violent insurgents arrested for the January 6th Insurrection in Washington DC, how many turned out to be ANTIFA? ZERO! BLM? ZERO!

How many were even Democrats? Not a single one!

Your attempt to turn the table of blame is a failure...

There may well not have been Antifa, BLM, or Democrats participating in the violent insurrection on Jan. 6 at the Capitol.  Antifa, BLM, and Democrats were responsible for a number of violent insurrections around the country over the last six years.

Insurrection is a violent uprising against any government; not just the Federal government.  Insurrection is not limited to violent protests and attacks on Federal institutions in Washington D.C.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Junior Silent
1.2.6  SteevieGee  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.4    4 weeks ago

They attacked, breached, and occupied our Capitol building.  This is a federal thing and needs a federal response.  Do you really want a federal commission investigating your local municipal problems?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.2.7  author  Nerm_L  replied to  SteevieGee @1.2.6    4 weeks ago
They attacked, breached, and occupied our Capitol building.  This is a federal thing and needs a federal response.  Do you really want a federal commission investigating your local municipal problems?

But the meme is about understanding insurrection, not about scrutinizing security of the Capitol building.  Why did thousands of people gather in Washington D.C. and violently attack the Capitol?

That question also applies to the many other violent protests that have occurred around the country.  Why have thousands of people gathered in many cities over a long period of time and violently attacked city and state governments and attacked the civilian population?

Why has insurrection become an accepted part of the political landscape?  Why has violent protest become just another day in America?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
1.2.8  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JBB @1.2.2    4 weeks ago

I can't access the site as I have AB+.

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
1.2.9  Duck Hawk  replied to  bugsy @1.2.1    4 weeks ago

RIF, Reading Is Fundamental. Educate yourself.

Plz link any public records of ANTIFA/BLM SUPPORTERS being charged in relation to the storming of the Capitol on 1/6

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
1.2.10  bugsy  replied to  JBB @1.2.2    4 weeks ago
They're all gop Trump fans. Everyone of them.

So prove it. Show us where in the link or in the chart within the link that says those arrested are Trump supporters.

Disclaimer......your feelings don't count.

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
1.2.11  bugsy  replied to  SteevieGee @1.2.3    4 weeks ago
That's what the commission is for.

So you admit that JBB's claim was bullshit.

That's refreshing.

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
1.2.12  bugsy  replied to  Duck Hawk @1.2.9    4 weeks ago
RIF, Reading Is Fundamental. Educate yourself. Plz link any public records of ANTIFA/BLM SUPPORTERS being charged in relation to the storming of the Capitol on 1/6

Then maybe you need to check your reading cognition. No one made that claim.

JBB claimed that everyone arrested was Trump supporters. I challenged him to prove it. He linked some story that had a chart with the names and charges of those arrested. Nowhere does it list the political affiliation or who they support in the chart.

Paula sank his bullshit comment when she said that was what the commission was for.

I believe that same comment sank your bs too.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.2.13  JBB  replied to  bugsy @1.2.12    4 weeks ago

Paula don't sink shit and the fact remains that of the over five hundred arrested for The Insurrection in DC in January every single one of them were there in support of Trump!

Of those arrested ZERO were BLM or ANYIFA!

If you cannot produce proof otherwise you should resign yourself to my factuallity...

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.14  Tessylo  replied to  SteevieGee @1.2.3    4 weeks ago

Every republican against this is complicit - that's the TRUTH.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Junior Silent
1.2.15  SteevieGee  replied to  bugsy @1.2.11    4 weeks ago

I admit nothing of the sort.  There should be an investigation.  We all know who the traitors are even if you won't admit it.

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
1.2.16  bugsy  replied to  JBB @1.2.13    4 weeks ago
Paula don't sink shit

She sank your bullshit and you know it.

You made a claim. I challenged you to prove it, of course you can't, so now you make a failed attempt at deflecting.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.2.17  Krishna  replied to  Duck Hawk @1.2.9    4 weeks ago

Plz link any public records of ANTIFA/BLM SUPPORTERS being charged in relation to the storming of the Capitol on 1/6

Here's a newly released video that provides unusually good insight as to what actually happened-- and who took part:

The clearest picture we have of what actually happened comes from an absolutely incredible New York Times video investigation that takes us through the events of January 6th—moment by moment,

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
1.2.18  Freewill  replied to  SteevieGee @1.2.6    4 weeks ago
They attacked, breached, and occupied our Capitol building. This is a federal thing and needs a federal response.

Agreed.

The Hatfield Courthouse in Portland among several other buildings were also occupied Federal Buildings and they were attacked, breached, and lit on fire for at least 2 months straight.  2.3 million dollars in damages to Federal Buildings there .  Do you agree that was a Federal thing and needed a Federal response?  

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
1.2.19  Freewill  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.7    4 weeks ago
Why has violent protest become just another day in America?

Because we let it, and sometimes even encourage it?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.20  Texan1211  replied to  Freewill @1.2.18    4 weeks ago

Excellent point.

Didn't some progressive liberals have a cow over Trump's offer to send in feds to help control those riots, and didn't the Democratic mayor lambaste the President for the offer?

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
1.2.21  Freewill  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.20    4 weeks ago

Actually Trump sent in Federal assets to protect Federal property and personnel as any President and the Secretary of the DHS would be obligated to do under Federal Law (40 U.S.C. § 1315).  He doesn't need to "offer", nor accept an invitation.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
1.2.23  Freewill  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.22    4 weeks ago

If I'm not mistaken, that was an offer to assist with riot control outside of, or in addition to, the duty to defend Federal property and personnel under 40 U.S.C. § 1315.  In that case I believe the jurisdiction lies with local law enforcement.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.2.24  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.20    3 weeks ago
Didn't some progressive liberals have a cow over Trump's offer to send in feds to help control those riots, and didn't the Democratic mayor lambaste the President for the offer?

Operation Diligent Valor.  Trump didn't ask.  That's what Democrats were upset about.

There was also Operation Legend.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.25  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.24    3 weeks ago
"Didn't some progressive liberals have a cow over Trump's offer to send in feds to help control those riots, and didn't the Democratic mayor lambaste the President for the offer?"

"Operation Diligent Valor.  Trump didn't ask.  That's what Democrats were upset about.

There was also Operation Legend."

What a bunch of bullshit.  Like everything else you post.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.2.26  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Freewill @1.2.19    3 weeks ago
Because we let it, and sometimes even encourage it?

Local and state governments decided that violent protest was a first amendment political activity.  Mayor Wheeler of Portland determined what was acceptable first amendment political activity in cities around the country.

Under our Constitutional system of government, what happens locally doesn't stay local.  What happens in one city affects the entire country.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Junior Silent
1.2.27  SteevieGee  replied to  Freewill @1.2.18    3 weeks ago
Do you agree that was a Federal thing and needed a Federal response?  

Yes.

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
1.3  JumpDrive  replied to  Nerm_L @1    4 weeks ago
The 'insurrection meme' allows Democrats to blame Republicans for cracking down on their own violent protest problem.

So you are saying that Democrats want to investigate the January 6th Insurrection so that if they chose to crack down on BLM protests, they'll be able to blame Republicans. Were you krunked when you wrote that?

It's more along the lines of what Trump's selection for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said:

So what is it that caused thousands of people to assault this building and try to overturn the Constitution of the United States of America? What caused that? I want to find that out. I want to maintain an open mind here, and I do want to analyze it. It’s important that we understand that because our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and guardians, they come from the American people. So it is important that the leaders now and in the future do understand it. - General Milley

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JumpDrive @1.3    4 weeks ago
So you are saying that Democrats want to investigate the January 6th Insurrection so that if they chose to crack down on BLM protests, they'll be able to blame Republicans. Were you krunked when you wrote that?

Rank & file Democrats are only interested in political red meat.  A commission to investigate Jan. 6 would obviously make Trump look bad (and quite possibly Republicans, too); especially since Democrats are pulling the strings.  The promise of that political red meat is a primary motivation for the groundswell of support among Democrats.

It's more along the lines of what Trump's selection for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said:

But the 'insurrection' on Jan. 6 at the Capitol is not the only 'insurrection' that has occurred over the last six years.  There have been violent uprisings against government, at many levels of government, around the country.  Violent protests attacking government and the civilian population really is insurrection.  And the military recruits people from those insurrectionists, too.

Violence used to overturn or subvert city government also overturns the Constitution.  Violent protest is not about democracy.  Violent protest is insurrection.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.3.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.1    4 weeks ago
A commission to investigate Jan. 6 would obviously make Trump look bad

Yes, I would say so, considering his "stop the steal" garbage instigated the whole thing. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.3  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.2    4 weeks ago
Yes, I would say so, considering his "stop the steal" garbage instigated the whole thing. 

If Democrats already know the motivations and causes for the violent protest on Jan. 6 then what is there to investigate?

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
1.3.4  JumpDrive  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.1    4 weeks ago
Rank & file Democrats are only interested in political red meat.

We need to understand how a pathological liar like Trump could motivate a violent insurrection. We need to know how many traitors there are in our midst. January 6th was an unprecedented attack on our democracy. The following statement by our country's highest ranking military official bears repeating:

So what is it that caused thousands of people to assault this building and try to overturn the Constitution of the United States of America? What caused that? I want to find that out. I want to maintain an open mind here, and I do want to analyze it. It’s important that we understand that because our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and guardians, they come from the American people. So it is important that the leaders now and in the future do understand it. - General Milley

----------------

But the 'insurrection' on Jan. 6 at the Capitol is not the only 'insurrection'...

You are correct in quoting the second occurrence of 'insurrection', but absolutely wrong in quoting the first. The first was an actual attack on the seat of our government, our elected representatives were directly threatened, and an attempt was made to subvert our Constitution. Unlike the BLM protests, which received worldwide support, the only worldwide supporters of January 6th are neo-nazis and other fringe right-wing groups.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.5  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JumpDrive @1.3.4    4 weeks ago
We need to understand how a pathological liar like Trump could motivate a violent insurrection. We need to know how many traitors there are in our midst. January 6th was an unprecedented attack on our democracy. The following statement by our country's highest ranking military official bears repeating:

Why would a murder in Minneapolis spark violent protests in Europe?  There's more to learn about what motivates violent protest than Trump's lies.   

You are correct in quoting the second occurrence of 'insurrection', but absolutely wrong in quoting the first. The first was an actual attack on the seat of our government, our elected representatives were directly threatened, and an attempt was made to subvert our Constitution. Unlike the BLM protests, which received worldwide support, the only worldwide supporters of January 6th are neo-nazis and other fringe right-wing groups.

The concerted political effort is to portray the violent protest on Jan. 6 at the Capitol as something distinct, different, and unprecedented.  Various and sundry labels have been used to differentiate the violent protest at the Capitol from other violent protests.  The facts are that the protests by Democrat supporters are responsible for more violence and attacks on governments in the United States and worldwide than Trump's insurrection.

Recent worldwide increases in violent protest as a means to achieve political goals may have originated in the United States but did not originate with Trump.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
1.3.6  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.3    4 weeks ago

It needs to be investigated to bust and hopefully censure/remove the complicit traitors in Congress.

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
1.3.7  JumpDrive  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.5    4 weeks ago
Why would a murder in Minneapolis spark violent protests in Europe?

That's the way a lot of people react to racism; it's also the case that far-right groups showed up for the purpose of causing violence. There was also gross mismanagement by the Trump Administration. When football players tried to peacefully draw attention to the problem, Trump and the right denigrated them and teased out a way of feigning offense. So, the kneeling became protests, and Trump and the right continued to denigrate and ignore. So, the protests became riots - as MLK said 'A riot is the language of the unheard'. The previous administration's stupidity gets the lion's share of the blame for what happened.

There's more to learn about what motivates violent protest than Trump's lies. 

Exactly why we need a full investigation of January 6th.

The concerted political effort is to portray the violent protest on Jan. 6 at the Capitol as something distinct, different, and unprecedented.

No effort at all, as I said previously, this was an actual attack on the seat of our government, our elected representatives were directly threatened, and an attempt was made to subvert our Constitution. Unless you go back to the Civil War, the small number of previous attacks were local and were usually racist.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.8  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JumpDrive @1.3.7    4 weeks ago
That's the way a lot of people react to racism; it's also the case that far-right groups showed up for the purpose of causing violence. There was also gross mismanagement by the Trump Administration. When football players tried to peacefully draw attention to the problem, Trump and the right denigrated them and teased out a way of feigning offense. So, the kneeling became protests, and Trump and the right continued to denigrate and ignore. So, the protests became riots - as MLK said 'A riot is the language of the unheard'. The previous administration's stupidity gets the lion's share of the blame for what happened.

Can you provide an example of racism in Europe prompting violent protest against any level of government in the United States?  Perhaps the reaction to racism is not as universal has is suggested.

Haven't European sports celebrities protested?  Are there examples of solidarity with European sports celebrities?

And if riot is the language of the unheard then why the concerted effort to silence the rioters at the Capitol?  Will Democrats listen to those protesters as part of an investigation or will Democrats use investigation to denigrate, disparage, and dismiss those protesters? 

No effort at all, as I said previously, this was an actual attack on the seat of our government, our elected representatives were directly threatened, and an attempt was made to subvert our Constitution. Unless you go back to the Civil War, the small number of previous attacks were local and were usually racist.

Cities, counties, and states have seats of government, too.  A city council performs the same Constitutional legislative function as Congress.  A Mayor performs the same Constitutional executive function as a President.  The authority (and limits on authority) for all levels of government are provided by the Constitution.  Storming a state Capitol is no different than storming the Federal Capitol.  Storming a council meeting is no different than storming the Federal Capitol.

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
1.3.9  JumpDrive  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.8    4 weeks ago
Can you provide an example of racism in Europe prompting violent protest against any level of government in the United States?

Irrelevant.

Perhaps the reaction to racism is not as universal has is suggested.

This map of George Floyd protests seems pretty worldwide:

256

Haven't European sports celebrities protested?  Are there examples of solidarity with European sports celebrities?

Irrelevant.

And if riot is the language of the unheard then why the concerted effort to silence the rioters at the Capitol? 

I don't think there's a relationship there Nerm, anyway, no one is trying to silence them. They are being interrogated and charged.

Will Democrats listen to those protesters as part of an investigation... 

I have no doubt that the interrogations will be read -- those will likely reveal motives.

...or will Democrats use investigation to denigrate, disparage, and dismiss those protesters? 

I am absolutely sure their interrogations will be denigrating and disparaging without help from Democrats. Republicans are the ones who want to dismiss the protesters. Republicans are the ones who are pushing January 6th as antifa/BLM/peaceful/just-another-Wednesday.

Cities, counties, and states have seats of government, too....

The FBI categorized the people who planned to kidnap the governor of Missouri as domestic terrorists. That seems to be a better choice than insurrectionists. The right wing groups that stormed capitals in protest of the lockdowns didn't seem to be insurrectionists either, just a bunch of morons trying to intimidate with their guns.

Storming a state Capitol is no different than storming the Federal Capitol.

Truly Nerm, there hasn't been anything even remotely comparable to January 6th since the Civil War. Just stop with the false equivalences.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.10  Tessylo  replied to  JumpDrive @1.3    4 weeks ago

trumpturd is the one that incited/led/caused thousands of people to assault 'this building' and try to overturn the Constitution of the USA

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.11  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JumpDrive @1.3.9    4 weeks ago
Irrelevant.

Only irrelevant because the answer wouldn't fit the meme.

Irrelevant.

Only irrelevant because the answer wouldn't fit the meme.

I don't think there's a relationship there Nerm, anyway, no one is trying to silence them. They are being interrogated and charged.

Ah, yes, the old 'a right to speak isn't a requirement to listen' meme.  But violent protest has become accepted politics to try to force people to listen.  That's what 'a riot is the language of the unheard'; violence is used to force people to listen.  A double standard and willfully ignorant memes doesn't change the language of the unheard.

How many have been arrested and charged with insurrection?  Or charged with rebellion?  Or charged with terrorism?  The arrests and charges are consistent with those made at other violent protests over the last six years.

The FBI categorized the people who planned to kidnap the governor of Missouri as domestic terrorists. That seems to be a better choice than insurrectionists. The right wing groups that stormed capitals in protest of the lockdowns didn't seem to be insurrectionists either, just a bunch of morons trying to intimidate with their guns.

Michigan, not Missouri.  The plan to kidnap Gov. Whitmer was an attack on the seat of state government; not the seat of Federal government.  Violence directed against government at any level is insurrection.  And violence directed against any level of government really does affect the whole country.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.12  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @1.3.10    4 weeks ago
trumpturd is the one that incited/led/caused thousands of people to assault 'this building' and try to overturn the Constitution of the USA

And Trump was investigated, indicted, tried, and acquitted.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.13  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.3.6    4 weeks ago
It needs to be investigated to bust and hopefully censure/remove the complicit traitors in Congress.

But the investigation that is needed is to understand why violent protest has become accepted, normal political activity.  That's the situational understanding that Gen. Milley needs.

Violent protest against governments around the world are increasing.  Violent protest is becoming a worldwide threat.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.14  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.12    4 weeks ago
"And trumpturd was investigated, indicted, tried, and acquitted."

No, it wasn't.

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
1.3.15  JumpDrive  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.11    3 weeks ago

We are discussing the January 6th Insurrection and BLM riots. You said:

Can you provide an example of racism in Europe prompting violent protest against any level of government in the United States?  Haven't European sports celebrities protested?  Are there examples of solidarity with European sports celebrities?

I said these statements were irrelevant because I don't see any reason to be concerned with Europeans. We are talking about events that occurred here in the US, that were prompted by events that occurred here in the US. Your statements are non sequiturs; if not please explain.

Ah, yes, the old 'a right to speak isn't a requirement to listen' meme. 

The reason for the January 6th Insurrection was the lie of a stolen election. We had to listen to this endlessly for months, it was always a lie. We are still hearing this. There was and is ZERO factual information to back up this belief. 

But violent protest has become accepted politics to try to force people to listen. That's what 'a riot is the language of the unheard'...

You are wrong, violent protest is NOT acceptable. When MLK made the statement about rioting being the language of the unheard, he also said that violence is wrong and counterproductive, but that it will happen. I have never supported the opportunists who take advantage of protests to do violence/loot. I remember a Korean bodega owner standing outside her trashed store crying during the Rodney King riots -- everything she built was destroyed in an instant. I am zero tolerance on these opportunists.

As I said in an earlier response, it was Trump's moronic handling of the initial peaceful BLM protests that pushed it from kneeling, to protest, to violence. I don't excuse the violence, but a competent leader could have quelled this with some useful action on the problem.

The plan to kidnap Gov. Whitmer was an attack on the seat of state government...

If you believe this was insurrection, then you should have no problem with the labelling "January 6th Insurrection".

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.16  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JumpDrive @1.3.15    3 weeks ago
I said these statements were irrelevant because I don't see any reason to be concerned with Europeans. We are talking about events that occurred here in the US, that were prompted by events that occurred here in the US. Your statements are non sequiturs; if not please explain.

You posted the map showing worldwide support for the George Floyd protests.  Arguing in circles won't change the phony notion of irrelevancy.

As I said in an earlier response, it was Trump's moronic handling of the initial peaceful BLM protests that pushed it from kneeling, to protest, to violence. I don't excuse the violence, but a competent leader could have quelled this with some useful action on the problem.

A competent leader would have just done what the protesters wanted?  How is that democracy?

As you are pointing out, the protesters did not get what they wanted so violence escalated to coerce government into giving protesters what they wanted.  The protesters adopted an uncompromising stance and were not willing to negotiate.   A leader allowing themselves to be bullied isn't competent leadership.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.17  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.16    3 weeks ago

You're the one arguing in circles.

Aren't you the one that said George Floyd's life was only worth $20?

Also, trumpturd is the bully.  

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
1.3.18  JumpDrive  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.16    3 weeks ago
I said these statements were irrelevant because I don't see any reason to be concerned with Europeans. We are talking about events that occurred here in the US, that were prompted by events that occurred here in the US. Your statements are non sequiturs; if not please explain.
You posted the map showing worldwide support for the George Floyd protests.  Arguing in circles won't change the phony notion of irrelevancy.

I posted the map to show that your statement "Perhaps the reaction to racism is not as universal has is suggested" was false. The map was posted *after* you made these statements about the Europeans:

Can you provide an example of racism in Europe prompting violent protest against any level of government in the United States?  Haven't European sports celebrities protested?  Are there examples of solidarity with European sports celebrities?

Since the map was posted after you made your statements, it could not have prompted you to make them. I asked you to explain how your statements are relevant. You have not done that.

A competent leader would have just done what the protesters wanted? ...

A competent leader would not have denigrated the protestors, a competent leader would not have tried to get them fired. A competent leader would not have just wanted to have them jailed. A competent leader would have made some attempt to negotiate with them. It's not the protesters who were unwilling to negotiate, it was Trump who simply attacked them from day one. People watched a 9 minute video of an agent of the state murdering a black man. Maybe get a clue and look at their problem.

It isn't like this is the first time Trump did this. When problems in South America resulted in people seeking asylum here, Trump denigrated the leaders of those countries, Trump cut off aid to those countries. These actions make the problem worse in those countries, so more people seek asylum here. Trump has always been an incompetent. Read the review of "The Art of the Deal". It appears in the spring of '88 or '89 in the New York Review of Books. 30 years ago they were laughing at his business 'acumen'.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1.3.19  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JumpDrive @1.3.18    3 weeks ago
I posted the map to show that your statement "Perhaps the reaction to racism is not as universal has is suggested" was false. The map was posted *after* you made these statements about the Europeans:

You also claimed that civil rights protests in Europe are irrelevant to the United States.  A highly selective relevance is not universal.  Your claim of irrelevance refutes your claim of universal reaction toward racism.  You are arguing with yourself.

A competent leader would not have denigrated the protestors, a competent leader would not have tried to get them fired. A competent leader would not have just wanted to have them jailed. A competent leader would have made some attempt to negotiate with them. It's not the protesters who were unwilling to negotiate, it was Trump who simply attacked them from day one. People watched a 9 minute video of an agent of the state murdering a black man. Maybe get a clue and look at their problem.

Violence is not protest.  Smash, burn, and loot protest is not civil disobedience; that is insurrection.  Democrat politicians have said so, so it must be.

The murder in Minneapolis was about the cop and not about the Black man.  The problem wasn't that George Floyd was taken into custody; the problem was that the cop committed murder.  Cops committing murder is the problem that must be addressed.

When can citizens intervene in what cops are doing?  The murder could have easily been prevented by citizens.  But the laws doesn't allow citizens intervening when cops do something unlawful.  A group of citizens could have saved George Floyd's life but they would have been charged with a crime.  That's a serious issue that needs attention.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
1.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @1    3 weeks ago

It was an insurrection. I’ve been calling it that from day one. A violent group trying to prevent the rightful winner of a free and fair election from being officially declared in order to keep their loser candidate in power. They should all have been shot.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2  JBB    4 weeks ago

There are lies, and then there are damned lies.

This article as a certified example of the latter.

The Capital Insurrection Jan 6th was no meme.

It was an attempted subversion of government.

Our Government, The United States of America.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
2.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @2    4 weeks ago
There are lies, and then there are damned lies.

This article as a certified example of the latter.

The Capital Insurrection Jan 6th was no meme.

It was an attempted subversion of government.

Our Government, The United States of America.

Democrats have created a meme that redefines insurrection so it only concerns Federal institutions in Washington D.C.  There have been several violent uprising against government and the civilian population over the last six years.  Those violent protests were also insurrection.

Using violence and threats of violence to coerce government  and the civilian population is not democracy.  

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.1  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1    4 weeks ago

False equivalencies are false on their faces...

original

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
2.1.2  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @2.1.1    4 weeks ago
False equivalencies are false on their faces...

Violent protest is violent protest, anywhere around the world.  There's nothing false in that equivalency.

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
2.1.3  Duck Hawk  replied to  JBB @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

Brilliant!! 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.4  XXJefferson51  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

What violence that happened on Jan 6 was far from the the most violent of all the mostly peaceful protests over the last 13+ months

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.5  JBB  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.4    4 weeks ago

180 police officers were hurt on Jan 6th!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3  JBB    4 weeks ago

Right here is this Democrat's "Insurrection Meme!"

original

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @3    4 weeks ago
Right here is this Democrat's "Insurrection Meme!"

Drawn, quartered, hanged, and then killed unless the violent uprising is in St. Louis.  Or Portland.  Or Seattle.  Or Minneapolis.  Or Chicago.  Or New York City.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1.1  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1    4 weeks ago

Nope, Trump's Insurrection was a violent attempt to subvert the government of the United States. Do you even comprehend how ridiculous your contention is? I think you do but you would really like to bamboozle readers...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.2  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @3.1.1    4 weeks ago
Nope, Trump's Insurrection was a violent attempt to subvert the government of the United States. Do you even comprehend how ridiculous your contention is? I think you do but you would really like to bamboozle readers...

That meme requires willful ignorance that local and state government derive their authority from the same Constitution.  That meme intentionally ignores that limitations on government imposed by the Constitution also applies to local and state government.

A violent attempt to subvert city government is also an attack on the Constitution and democracy.  Using violence to subvert the government of Kenosha really does affect everyone in the country by setting legal precedents under the Constitution.  Forcing mayors and elected city officials out of office through violent uprising is insurrection that is no less serious than the attack on the Capitol.

Democrats are attempting to establish a meme that treats the Federal government as something different.  But there is only one Constitution and that Constitution is in force at all levels of government.  Insurrection against government, at any level of government, is an attempt to subvert the Constitution and the government of the United States.

 

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
3.2  Duck Hawk  replied to  JBB @3    4 weeks ago

lmao

 
 
 
Dig
Senior Guide
4  Dig    4 weeks ago
What made the event on Jan. 6 different is that Republican supporters engaged in the same type of organized, coordinated protest that Democrat supporters had engaged in for several years.

Uh huh, to subvert the Constitution and overturn an election... "Hang Mike Pence!"

*facepalm*

Stop watching right wing propaganda, Nerm. It's rotting your brain.

 
 
 
devangelical
PhD Principal
4.1  devangelical  replied to  Dig @4    4 weeks ago

that train has left the station...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Dig @4    4 weeks ago
Uh huh, to subvert the Constitution and overturn an election... "Hang Mike Pence!"

*facepalm*

Stop watching right wing propaganda, Nerm. It's rotting your brain.

How is that different than vandalizing a mayor's home and threatening a mayor's family?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
4.2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2    4 weeks ago

But it okay with you that poll workers and their families have been getting death threats by Trumptards.

 
 
 
Dig
Senior Guide
4.2.2  Dig  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2    4 weeks ago
How is that different than vandalizing a mayor's home and threatening a mayor's family?

Is this some kind of joke to you?

One is an attack on our constitutional system of national government, an attack on the Republic itself. The other, while still a crime for which the perpetrators should be prosecuted if caught, isn't.

Let's see if you can figure out which is which.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.2.1    4 weeks ago
That's trumpturd dumbturds.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.4  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Dig @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
One is an attack on our constitutional system of national government, an attack on the Republic itself. The other, while still a crime for which the perpetrators should be prosecuted if caught, isn't.

Violent protest against any level of government is an attack on our Constitutional system of government.  The Federal government is only one part of our national government.  The Federal government cannot accomplish much without local and state government.  Government that affects people the most is local government.

Our Republic functions by local and state governments electing representation to the Federal government.  Senators represent states; they do not represent the country as a whole.  Representatives represent the population within states; they do not represent the country as a whole.  As a Republic, Congress represents constituencies within the country.

Political expediency to endow unconstitutional power to a two party political system is warping and subverting our Constitutional system of government.  Now violent protest has become a tool of an unconstitutional two party political system subvert the Constitution.  A violent attack on a police precinct is as dangerous (if not more dangerous) to our Constitutional system of government as an attack on the Federal Capitol.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.4    4 weeks ago

Any violence that happened during the mainly peaceful protests - was for the most part from right wing agitators.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.6  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.5    4 weeks ago
Any violence that happened during the mainly peaceful protests - was for the most part from right wing agitators.

Louis Farrakhan is right wing.  Don't assume right wing agitators are white supremacists.  The Black population has its own right wing problem.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.7  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.6    4 weeks ago

What the fuck are you talking about now?

Who brought up Louis Farrakhan?

Right wing?  NO

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.8  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.7    4 weeks ago
Who brought up Louis Farrakhan?

I brought up Louis Farrakhan.  You claimed that violence during the mainly peaceful protests was for the most part from right wing agitators.  I'm pointing out that the Black population has its own right wing agitators.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.9  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.8    4 weeks ago

Whatever.  You're still wrong.  

 
 
 
Dig
Senior Guide
4.2.10  Dig  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.4    4 weeks ago

Looks like you couldn't figure it out.

It is downright idiotic to equate the petty vandalism of a house with a physical attack on the United States Government aimed at 'convincing' Congress to depose a president who was legally elected in accord with the United States Constitution and install a god damn tyrant instead.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
4.2.11  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.4    4 weeks ago

Nerm,

This is really simple. When people attack the countries capital and go around look for the Vice President and the Speaker of the house (who happen to be the second and third in line for the presidency) and talk about killing them, that is not only insurrection, it is also treason. 

It's just that simple. 

I'm not looking to assign blame here. I am looking for some simple acknowledgments on fundamental ideas.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
4.2.12  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.3    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_12_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
4.2.13  Freewill  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.9    4 weeks ago
Whatever.  You're still wrong.  

You sure about that?

Interesting article about Farrakhan's sociopolitical outlook from the left-wing New York Magazine Intelligencer HERE .  Including, believe it or not:

Going back to the black conservative movements led by Booker T. Washington and Marcus Garvey, the leftist commitment to pluralism and anti-capitalist critique are arguably less compatible with Farrakhan’s brand of nationalism than are the beliefs of the Trump-era GOP. ( Incidentally, Farrakhan endorsed Trump in 2016 .) Rejecting white supremacy breeds strange bedfellows. Ever the opportunist, Farrakhan has found common ground with figures ranging from Ku Klux Klan leader Tom Metzger to Fidel Castro . Yet, contradictory though it may seem, none of this has fundamentally changed his politics. “On issue after issue, Farrakhan’s positions on major public policies are as reactionary as those of Newt Gingrich,” wrote historian Manning Marable in 1998.

You learn something new every day.  I know I do.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.14  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.2.11    3 weeks ago
This is really simple. When people attack the countries capital and go around look for the Vice President and the Speaker of the house (who happen to be the second and third in line for the presidency) and talk about killing them, that is not only insurrection, it is also treason. 

It's just that simple. 

I'm not looking to assign blame here. I am looking for some simple acknowledgments on fundamental ideas.

Yes, it is simple.  What I've done is place the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol at the same level as many other violent protests that have occurred across the country over the last six years.

Interpreting that comparison as downplaying what happened at the Capitol is the Democrat's insurrection meme.  The other violent protests around the country (and around the world) were just as serious and just as dangerous as the attack on the Capitol.  

I'm not trivializing the attack on the Capitol.  Democrats are trivializing the attacks on cities.  As is typical with Democrats' politics, I'm being blamed for what Democrats are doing.

Democrats want to investigate the insurrection at the Capitol and ignore the insurrections that have taken place across the country over the last six years.  Democrats' investigation will only provide political red meat and fodder for campaign advertising.  The carefully limited scope of Democrats' investigation won't provide the situational understanding that Gen. Milley said he needed.  Democrats have made insurrection an accepted political activity by Democrats.  Insurrection is just another day in America.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.15  Tessylo  replied to  Freewill @4.2.13    3 weeks ago
"You sure about that?"

POSITIVE 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.16  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Freewill @4.2.13    3 weeks ago
You learn something new every day.  I know I do.

Malcom X was right wing, too.  The Black population in the United States really does have its own right wing.

The TEA Party nuts showing up at a political event with guns is what the Black Panthers did, too.  

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
4.2.17  Freewill  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.15    3 weeks ago
POSITIVE

Excellent!  Then you can make a case to counter that of that historian and the NY Mag article?  You could also google what the Southern Poverty Law Center had to say about it , and perhaps counter that as well?

Antisemitism is only one of Farrakhan’s many prejudices. Over the years, his comments have consistently been rabidly anti-gay. “God don’t like men coming to men with lust in their hearts like you should go to a female,” he told a Kansas City crowd in 1996. “If you think that the kingdom of God is going to be filled up with that kind of degenerate crap, you're out of your damn mind.”

Isn’t that pretty much in line with what we loathe about the “far right”?

Farrakhan make his first ever appearance on Alex Jones’ Infowars that same year.  The interview came after Farrakhan released a video on Twitter where he briefly mentioned Jones’ views on federal gun control. The two proceeded to agree on a number of key issues including their distrust in the democratic system and the federal government. Just days after Trump won the presidency, Farrakhan spoke to his followers and assured them that Trump’s presidential win was the opening they needed for other black people to realize it was time to separate from “white America.” Farrakhan saw Trump’s rhetoric as a much-needed push the black community needed to join his movement, stating: “My message to Trump: Push it real good, push it so that black people say, ‘I’m out of here. I can’t take it no more.’” In March, Farrakhan praised Trump for “standing in front of the Jewish community and saying ‘I don’t want your money,’” reiterating his belief that Jews are actively seeking ways to control the federal government.

And yet you are positive, he shares no views with the "far right"?

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
4.2.19  Freewill  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.14    3 weeks ago
What I've done is place the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol at the same level as many other violent protests that have occurred across the country over the last six years.

Nerm, while I understand your point that we have been somewhat desensitized to the danger of violence being used to apply political pressure, or for political gain, over the past several years,  I don't think what happened at the Capitol can be considered "on the same level" as previous violence that occurred at protests across the country and this is why:

1.  What happened at the Capitol was violence directly aimed at political opponents, for reasons that were not legitimate, and in a manner that was clearly unconstitutional. While the targets were not harmed and high powered weapons were not used, there was clear intent to inflict deadly harm, and to overturn the results of a legitimate election.  

What happened in Portland (among other places) was in reaction to what many consider to be ongoing/repeating social injustice, and the violence was perpetrated by only a relatively small subset of those who were otherwise protesting that injustice peacefully.  Certainly that violence included attacks on police (2000+ officers injured nationwide), attacks on Federal Buildings, as well as many local businesses burned to the ground and looted.  And to the extent that such violence was defended, excused or not acted upon by elected officials, and that some were not prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I understand your point regarding how such violence might start to look "normalized", as though it is a legitimate means to getting what one wants and exercising mob control.  But in reality these were crimes, by aggrieved citizens/activists, not direct attacks on the the seat of our Federal government, or specific politicians, or even direct violations of our Constitution.  The only one that came close to that was the CHAZ/CHOP incident in Seattle, where a police station was attacked/destroyed and an area was taken over by force.   

2.  What happened at the Capitol was egged on by the President of the United States who was largely the source of the illegitimate reasons for the attack, making the targeting of political opponents even more of a constitutional concern.  Reasons for violence do matter when we seek to evaluate the danger to the proper constitutional operation of our republic, the threat to elected officials, and threat to the population in general.  The response is going to differ based on the reason for the violence and the target(s) or purpose of the attack.

Having said that, we should all condemn such mob violence no matter the reason for it.  It has no place in a society governed by the rule of law and a representative form of government.  The common denominator, if we really need to boil it down to one, is extremism.  And the only solution is for our political establishment and our general political discourse to move away from and condemn the extremes, and focus on being rational and reasonable with each other.  We can agree on a common general solution, but that doesn't mean the problems were "on the same level".

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.20  Tessylo  replied to  Freewill @4.2.17    3 weeks ago

Whatever jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

Plus you said I was totally adorable one time.  You were right about that  Wrong about everything else.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2.21  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.16    3 weeks ago
"The TEA Party nuts showing up at a political event with guns is what the Black Panthers did, too."  Correction - teabaggers.   

Proof?  Otherwise, your usual bullshit.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.22  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Freewill @4.2.19    3 weeks ago
1.  What happened at the Capitol was violence directly aimed at political opponents, for reasons that were not legitimate, and in a manner that was clearly unconstitutional. While the targets were not harmed and high powered weapons were not used, there was clear intent to inflict deadly harm, and to overturn the results of a legitimate election.   What happened in Portland (among other places) was in reaction to what many consider to be ongoing/repeating social injustice, and the violence was perpetrated by only a relatively small subset of those who were otherwise protesting that injustice peacefully.  Certainly that violence included attacks on police (2000+ officers injured nationwide), attacks on Federal Buildings, as well as many local businesses burned to the ground and looted.  And to the extent that such violence was defended, excused or not acted upon by elected officials, and that some were not prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I understand your point regarding how such violence might start to look "normalized", as though it is a legitimate means to getting what one wants and exercising mob control.  But in reality these were crimes, by aggrieved citizens/activists, not direct attacks on the the seat of our Federal government, or specific politicians, or even direct violations of our Constitution.  The only one that came close to that was the CHAZ/CHOP incident in Seattle, where a police station was attacked/destroyed and an area was taken over by force.   

That narrative attempts to selectively legitimize violent protest as a first amendment activity.  That's the Democrats' insurrection meme.  The storming of the Capitol was an attack on the political process; an attempt to interfere with the political process of certifying electoral college votes.  There were attempts to interfere with the electoral college vote in 2016 by recruiting faithless electors.  Why would peaceful interference with the electoral process be less of a threat to democracy than violent interference?  That differentiation is only being made based upon optics and not based upon the significance of the threat to democracy. 

Attacking a political process controlled by two political parties is not an attack on government.  The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are not part of government.  The Democratic Party and the Republican Party controlling elections is not a government function.  A Federal Election Commission made up of only Democrats and Republicans is not representative government.

The political process has been rigged to perpetuate two party control of politics (and by extension, government).  Our political process has degenerated so far as to consider the two political party primaries as being state sponsored elections.  The two parties are representing party agendas; not the will of the people.  Are the people being represented if the electorate is only allowed to vote for politicians that serve themselves?  Totalitarian governments hold elections; the political machinery only control who is allowed onto the ballot.  In totalitarian states the primary source of social injustice is political injustice.

The violence that  happened in Kenosha, WI, is as troubling as the violence in Portland, OR.  We are being told that only a handful of protesters in St. Louis, Minneapolis, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Seattle, Atlanta, Baltimore, Washington D.C., and Kenosha are responsible for confronting police lines with violence, threatening the civilian population with violence, threatening government officials and their families with violence.  Busy little subset.

Even peaceful protesters shut down businesses and denied public access to government services.  Protests are attacks against civil society for the purpose of coercing government.  If government does not accede to protesters demands in an undemocratic manner then violence escalates.  If the public ignores the protest then violence escalates.  Peaceful protests are passive aggressive violence.

Comparing the attack on the Capitol with violent protests around the country is really a contrast between an attack on a political process controlled by only two political parties versus attacks on civil society.  And we are supposed to believe that attacks on civil society is not a threat while believing that attacks on the political process is an existential threat.

That's the Democrats' insurrection meme.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.23  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Freewill @4.2.19    3 weeks ago
2.  What happened at the Capitol was egged on by the President of the United States who was largely the source of the illegitimate reasons for the attack, making the targeting of political opponents even more of a constitutional concern.  Reasons for violence do matter when we seek to evaluate the danger to the proper constitutional operation of our republic, the threat to elected officials, and threat to the population in general.  The response is going to differ based on the reason for the violence and the target(s) or purpose of the attack.

That is a self defeating argument.  If the attack on the Capitol was egged on by Trump making a political speech then it was a political activity and not an insurrection.  And if the attack on the Capitol targeted political opponents then the attack was not against the government.

The Constitutional concern is that the political establishment of only two political parties are controlling the Constitutional process.  Certification of the electoral college vote has become a political party function little different than state sponsored political party primaries.  The Constitution  has been subverted by the political establishment of only two political parties.  Government is being used by the two political parties to target political opponents.  Government is being used to represent political party interests.  Our Constitutional system of government has been perverted to provide representation based upon political party affiliation.  

And the political party controlled government can use violence against civil society without repercussions.  The party in power only has to declare an insurrection.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
4.2.24  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.23    3 weeks ago
then it was a political activity and not an insurrection.  And if the attack on the Capitol targeted political opponents then the attack was not against the government.

Nerm, these things are not mutually exclusive, they can be, and often are all of them at once.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.25  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.2.24    3 weeks ago
Nerm, these things are not mutually exclusive, they can be, and often are all of them at once.

I can agree with that.  But those measures apply to all protests.

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
4.2.26  Freewill  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.22    3 weeks ago
That narrative attempts to selectively legitimize violent protest as a first amendment activity.

I respectfully beg to differ.  That narrative legitimizes those protests as a first amendment activity, and characterizes the violence as a crime but not directly aimed at overthrowing the government, nor overturning the results of a legitimate election, nor aimed at specific political rivals or government officials (often one in the same).

Why would peaceful interference with the electoral process be less of a threat to democracy than violent interference?

It wouldn't be, but that is a completely separate point than claiming that the violence at the Capitol on Jan 6 was "at the same level" as that in the various riots that erupted around the country.

Attacking a political process controlled by two political parties is not an attack on government. 

That makes no sense.  The political process that was being attacked was the constitutional process of confirming and recording the vote in a national election, and there were threats made to the lives of constitutionally elected officials which is most certainly an attack on the Government, not just a specific party. Not sure if you noticed, but the threats were made against members of both parties (Pence and Pelosi specifically, who happen to be by constitutional authority the next in line to the presidency).  It has nothing to do with the parties and everything to do with an attack on the Government at a Constitutional level.

The political process has been rigged to perpetuate two party control of politics (and by extension, government).

Again a separate issue, and one where you and I might find some agreement, but it has nothing to do with the claim that the violence carried out on Jan 6 was "at the same level" as the violence related to the protests, which is the only claim that I was taking exception to.

Busy little subset.

That is why I used the phrase "relatively small subset" rather than a "handful", as I do not fully subscribe to the "mostly peaceful protest" characterization any more than you do.  In some areas we clearly saw that it wasn't "mostly peaceful".  But that speaks only to the number committing the crimes, not to whether they are on "the same level" as the attacks on Jan 6.

Protests are attacks against civil society for the purpose of coercing government.

A rather dark definition of a "protest", but they are protected First Amendment rights as far as"...the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  Sorry, but I tend to like the First Amendment definition of "protest" better than yours.  The government need not automatically accede to every demand in an undemocratic manner, but certainly using the democratic process to make needed or suggested structural changes can render a positive democratic result.  As soon as it becomes violent, or seeks to directly overthrow that democratic process, it becomes a crime punishable specifically by the laws that fit the crime.  The type of violence and specific aim are most certainly not always on "the same level".

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.2.27  JBB  replied to  Freewill @4.2.26    3 weeks ago

Civil rights, voting rights, women's rights, gay rights resulted from civil disobedience and unless you blame The Freedom Walkers and Act Up and striking farm workers for getting their heads smashed by strike busters and outside agitators who has been responsible for outbreaks of violence is up for debate...

Riots though are criminal as are coup de etat. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.28  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Freewill @4.2.26    3 weeks ago
I respectfully beg to differ.  That narrative legitimizes those protests as a first amendment activity, and characterizes the violence as a crime but not directly aimed at overthrowing the government, nor overturning the results of a legitimate election, nor aimed at specific political rivals or government officials (often one in the same).

Yes, Democrats can now blame Republican insurrectionists for cracking down on violent protests.  The protest on Jan. 6 followed the same progression as many, many other protests around the country.  The protest on Jan. 6 was just another protest on another day in America.  But Democrats have been loathe to crack down on the violence associated with those many, many other protests out of fear they would alienate their voting base.

Now Democrats can point fingers at Republican insurrectionists as justification for deploying national guard to prevent a repeat of what happened on Jan. 6.  Democrats can blame Republicans for the need to take harsher measures so that peaceful protest does not devolve into violence.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
4.2.29  pat wilson  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.28    3 weeks ago
The protest on Jan. 6 was just another protest on another day in America. 

You can keep repeating that until the cows come home but you're just as wrong the first time you said it as you are the last. Your assertions are beyond absurd. Face reality FFS.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.30  author  Nerm_L  replied to  pat wilson @4.2.29    3 weeks ago
You can keep repeating that until the cows come home but you're just as wrong the first time you said it as you are the last. Your assertions are beyond absurd. Face reality FFS.

It's necessary to keep repeating that the protest on Jan. 6 was just another protest on another day in America because the Democrats' insurrection meme only gives attention to the violence.

Democrats want to deny that the protest on Jan. 6 progressed in the same manner as many, many other protests around the country.  Democrats have been downplaying violent protests for six years out of fear they would alienate parts of their voting base.  The protest on Jan. 6 by parts of the Republican voting base give Democrats an opportunity to express outrage and alarm over violent protests without alienating their own voters.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.31  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JBB @4.2.27    3 weeks ago
Civil rights, voting rights, women's rights, gay rights resulted from civil disobedience and unless you blame The Freedom Walkers and Act Up and striking farm workers for getting their heads smashed by strike busters and outside agitators who has been responsible for outbreaks of violence is up for debate...

Protests under the umbrella of civil rights have been attacking many Constitutional rights.  The Bill of Rights in the Constitution really is under threat of being dismantled and abolished.

I'm not trivializing what happened at the Capitol.  What I'm saying is that the many, many violent protests around the country were just as bad as what happened at the Capitol.

Democrats are defending their own violence by using civil rights as justification for violence.  

 
 
 
Freewill
Sophomore Participates
4.2.32  Freewill  replied to  Nerm_L @4.2.28    3 weeks ago
Now Democrats can point fingers at Republican insurrectionists as justification for deploying national guard to prevent a repeat of what happened on Jan. 6.  Democrats can blame Republicans for the need to take harsher measures so that peaceful protest does not devolve into violence.

So?  If there is a repeat threat of ANY group storming the capital, with Congress in session as they finalize the process of a national election, and the attackers are threatening to kill the VP and Speaker of the House, I should hope to hell they call in whatever guard they need to stop it, and I couldn't care less who they blame for having to deploy said guard.  Does the blame issue really matter more to you than the lives of duly elected officials, the lives of police officers, and the attempt to overthrow the results of a legitimate election? 

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
4.2.33  Split Personality  replied to  Freewill @4.2.32    3 weeks ago
Does the blame issue really matter more to you than the lives of duly elected officials, the lives of police officers, and the attempt to overthrow the results of a legitimate election?

Yes, apparently...with no shame,

just whataboutisms.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
4.2.34  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Freewill @4.2.32    3 weeks ago
So?  If there is a repeat threat of ANY group storming the capital, with Congress in session as they finalize the process of a national election, and the attackers are threatening to kill the VP and Speaker of the House, I should hope to hell they call in whatever guard they need to stop it, and I couldn't care less who they blame for having to deploy said guard.  Does the blame issue really matter more to you than the lives of duly elected officials, the lives of police officers, and the attempt to overthrow the results of a legitimate election? 

So, why not apply the same remedy for all protests that turn violent?  Why only protect the Capitol and Congress?  Why not protect Foggy Bottom, too?  There was a three day smash, burn, and loot protest in Washington D.C. at the end of May, 2020, supposedly to protest the killing of George Floyd.

I agree the national guard should be used to protect the Capitol.  But the national guard should protect Foggy Bottom, too.  Violent protest attacking civil society is not a protected first amendment activity.  Elected officials put their socks on one foot at a time, like anyone else lucky enough to have socks and feet.  Elected hubris is not a substitute for the humility of service.

I understand the concern expressed by those who subscribe to the belief that issues can only be adequately addressed through central planning by a strong technocratic government.  Any attack against technocratic government threatens a fundamental belief.  But if the lowest levels of society devolve into chaos and anarchy then technocratic government becomes moot, as does any form of government.  A technocratic government simply cannot address local issues; there is a limit to central planning.  When does economy of scale become exploitive greed?

Violent protest against civil society is just as serious, just as dangerous, and just as much a threat to our Constitutional system of government as an attack on the Capitol.  Attacking the governed really is an attack on government.  The Capitol, Congress, and elected Federal officials shouldn't be getting special protection and treatment; they should be getting the same protection and treatment as everyone else.  Whatever protection is provided for the Capitol should also be provided for cities and communities.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5  Kavika     4 weeks ago

This article is totally off the rails, bizarre is an understatement.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
5.1  Split Personality  replied to  Kavika @5    4 weeks ago

Benghazi, just another day in the mess we call the Middle East.

Ten Congressional investigations, 6 by Republicans only, 33 hearings.

Fast forward to 2019,

Republicans who held 33 hearings on Benghazi complain that Cohen’s testimony was a waste of time

Republicans spent much of Wednesday's Oversight Committee hearing wishing they were talking about something more useful -- like Her Emails?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Expert
6  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

The phony outrage and fake indignation continues unabated.

And the public isn't buying the leftist propaganda and lies of this political stunt

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
6.1  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @6    4 weeks ago
The phony outrage and fake indignation continues unabated.

That's the most ironic comment you have ever made.

And the public isn't buying the leftist propaganda and lies of this political stunt

62% disagree, including half of the Republicans polled.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Sophomore Principal
7  Gsquared    4 weeks ago
Democrats minds are already made up...

...that January 6th was not just a normal tourist day at the Capitol.

One thing is for certain.  This ridiculous article is entirely false and just another attempt to perpetuate the fascistic Republican Big Lie.

Goebbels would be proud.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
8  pat wilson    4 weeks ago

Save your gaslighting for your barbeque, Nerm.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago

It's refreshing to read something that this site and others sorely needed.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @9    4 weeks ago

lol. The article is absurd. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1    4 weeks ago

It's nothing but projection, deflection, and denial.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
10  JohnRussell    4 weeks ago

Apparently Nerm wrote this article himself, which makes it all the more remarkable in terms of Newstalkers. 

According to Nerm, Jan 6th was just another day at the protest office. 

In a new NYT video we see a scene that is time lapse of a hallway in the House complex.  Staffers of Nancy Pelosi are seen hurrying out of the hallway and into an office. After the time lapse we see a "protester ' trying to break the same door down and get into the room where the staffers were hiding under a table, undoubtedly fearing for their lives. We see them whispering and trying to make a phone call for help. 

Of course this event was not just another protest, but its good to see someone like Nerm lay his cards on the table. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
10.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @10    4 weeks ago
According to Nerm, Jan 6th was just another day at the protest office. 

What happened at the Capitol on Jan. 6 was just another day in America.  Coordinated violence against government and the civilian population, for political purposes, have become a new normal.  Violent protest has become so predictable that businesses and people take steps to prepare for the violence.

In a new NYT video we see a scene that is time lapse of a hallway in the House complex.  Staffers of Nancy Pelosi are seen hurrying out of the hallway and into an office. After the time lapse we see a "protester ' trying to break the same door down and get into the room where the staffers were hiding under a table, undoubtedly fearing for their lives. We see them whispering and trying to make a phone call for help. 

Many cities around the country have issued public notices to avoid areas where violent protests were taking place.  But there aren't videos of people trying to flee those violent protests; the videos highlight the violence. 

News reporting shows the violent protests from the vantage point of the protesters.  The public has not been shown the story from the vantage point of those threatened by violence; that story has not been told.  The coverage of the violent protest (or insurrection) on Jan 6 is distinctly different in that the story is told from the vantage point of those being threatened by violence.

The many violent protests that have taken place over the last six years have been stories about the protesters.  The violent protest on Jan. 6 at the Capitol is unique because it is a story about the victims.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
10.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @10.1    3 weeks ago
What happened at the Capitol on Jan. 6 was just another day in America.

I was wondering how you could actually make a comment like that?

My best guess is that you are unaware of what actually happened!

Here's an actual video (I've seen a few, IMO its one of the best ones, check it out):

Day of Rage: How Trump Supporters Took the U.S. Capitol

1,661,209 views - Jul 1, 2021

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Principal
10.1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Krishna @10.1.1    3 weeks ago

That is a wonderful video, Krishna. There have been various videos put out that shows various points of encounters, but, this video is very extensive in showing exactly what took place, where and when, as well as showing various members of the insurrection who have thus far been well identified and incarcerated.

Thank you very much for sharing this excellent video of the Trump supported and instigated insurrection. It tells it like it was on January 6, 2021.

A day that will live long in infamy in the history of America. One that true Americans should never forget.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
10.1.3  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @10.1.1    3 weeks ago
I was wondering how you could actually make a comment like that?

The protest on Jan. 6 began peacefully like many, many protests around the country.  Speakers addressed the crowd, aired grievances, led chants, and used incendiary language as has happened at many, many protests around the country.  The protesters marched toward a focal point and confronted police as has happened at many, many protests around the country.  Protesters broke through barricades and police lines as has happened at many, many protests around the country.  Protesters vandalized and looted as has happened at many, many protests around the country.

The protest on Jan. 6 wasn't unique, novel, new, or unprecedented.  The protest on Jan. 6 progressed in the same manner as many, many other protests.  The outcome of the protest on Jan. 6 was very similar to the outcome of many, many other protests.  The protest on Jan. 6 was just another protest on another day in America.

The claim that the Jan. 6 protest is unprecedented requires trivializing the other violent protests that have happened around the country over the last six years.  Attacking the political process and politicians matters more than attacks on civil society.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @10.1.3    3 weeks ago

PROJECTION, DEFLECTION, DENIAL.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
10.1.5  Thrawn 31  replied to  Nerm_L @10.1.3    3 weeks ago

It was peaceful until it wasn’t. I dont much care what it started out as, it ended in an effort to prevent the winner of an election from being officially certified and the peaceful transition of power from taking place. Fuck the insurrectionists, every single one of them.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.1.5    3 weeks ago

And all those defending them.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
10.1.7  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Nerm_L @10.1.3    3 weeks ago

Exactly. For example the "burn this mother fucker down, burn this bitch down" in Ferguson. And we all saw the results of that............and the ramifications as well as setting a precedent for protests beyond that. Like Baltimore.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @10.1.7    3 weeks ago

"Exactly."

Exactly SHIT.

In Ferguson it was the result of that 'cop' murdering an unarmed black man.  In Baltimore, it was the case of that poor young man Freddie Gray dying at the hands of the 'cops' for running away and he was found with a knife.  Killed for running away.  

It didn't set a precedent other than showing the world how many racist pigs there are in the force killing unarmed black men with no consequences to themselves.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
10.1.9  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.1.5    3 weeks ago
It was peaceful until it wasn’t. I dont much care what it started out as, it ended in an effort to prevent the winner of an election from being officially certified and the peaceful transition of power from taking place. Fuck the insurrectionists, every single one of them.

The protest on Jan. 6 was peaceful until it wasn't like many, many other protests around the country over the last six years.  The protest on Jan. 6 was just another protest on another day in America.

What is the purpose of protest?  The purpose of protest is not to hold elections and address issues in a democratic manner.  The purpose of protest is not to politically debate issues.  Protest makes demands and uses protest to coerce government into meeting those demands.  If the demands are ignored or dismissed then the protests become more aggressive.  Protest uses aggression and violence to coerce government in an undemocratic manner.

If the protest on Jan. 6 was insurrection then there have been many, many insurrections around the country.  I'm not downplaying the insurrection on Jan. 6.  I'm pointing out that the Democrats' insurrection meme downplays the many, many other insurrections around the country.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Guide
10.1.10  Sean Treacy  replied to  Tessylo @10.1.8    3 weeks ago
Ferguson it was the result of that 'cop' murdering an unarmed black man. 

Wow. Just more imagined facts

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.11  Tessylo  replied to  Sean Treacy @10.1.10    3 weeks ago

Nope, truth.  Not surprised you support the killer cops and not the unarmed victims.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @10.1.9    3 weeks ago

You're just repeating the same hate and shit and lies over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

We know how much black lives are worth to you, $20.00

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
10.1.13  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @10.1.11    3 weeks ago

It wasn't murder. Even your bestie and his buds said so...........

On Aug. 9, 2014, Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old black man, was shot and killed by a white police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, in what the Obama administration’s Department of Justice determined was an act of “self-defense.

In discussing the case with legal experts, however, we found broad consensus that "murder" was the wrong word to use — a legal point likely familiar to Harris, a longtime prosecutor, and Warren, a law professor.  In fact, two other Democratic senators with law degrees now running for president — Cory Booker and Kirsten Gillibrand — more accurately referred to it as a killing.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
10.1.14  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @10.1.12    3 weeks ago
You're just repeating the same hate and shit and lies over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. We know how much black lives are worth to you, $20.00

The murder in Minneapolis was about Derek Chauvin; not about George Floyd.  Chauvin would have been just as wrong if it had been Osama bin Laden.  

Making the story about George Floyd removed the onus of accountability off the police.  We're scrutinizing and arguing about George Floyd.  We are not scrutinizing and arguing about police practices and methods.  The protest demands have been to defund the police and not to fix the police practices and methods.

BLM fucked itself with how the murder in Minneapolis was handled.  Chauvin was convicted as some sort of symbolic justice and the police are still doing what they've always done.  The protests have not changed anything.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.15  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @10.1.14    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.16  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @10.1.13    3 weeks ago

I don't care whose DOJ it was - that pig is a murderer.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
10.1.17  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tessylo @10.1.15    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10.1.18  JBB  replied to  Thrawn 31 @10.1.17    3 weeks ago

Is that a fancy borderline personality disorder?

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Junior Quiet
11  Colour Me Free    4 weeks ago

Interesting outlook Nerm... albeit I do not think there needs to be an investigation of January 6th ... think it is rather obvious what happened, why, as well as the individual that instigated the assault is known ...  is there a difference between rioting, burning, looting and the assault on the Capitol ... yes there is, those that attacked the Capitol were hunting elected officials, not out to steal a new TV and shoes....

If there is anything to be gained by the special committee ..? .. it will be to make a strong argument for DC statehood .. the major could not call out the national guard and apparently the former president was not taking calls...?

Nothing can justify the events of that day - do the (D)s have an agenda .. ummm yep ... just as (R)s would if the roles were reversed!

Happy 4th Nerm

Peace!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.1  Tessylo  replied to  Colour Me Free @11    4 weeks ago

I disagree with you Colour.  There needs to be an investigation.  The only ones against it (republicans/gqp) are complicit.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @11.1    4 weeks ago
"not out to steal a new TV and shoes...."

So you think this is what is going on during those largely peaceful protests?  

The ones who looted or burned or vandalized, were not actual protesters, and should be held responsible by the law.  

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
11.2  Krishna  replied to  Colour Me Free @11    3 weeks ago
I do not think there needs to be an investigation of January 6th ... think it is rather obvious what happened,

Actually I was wondering about the same thing-- doesn't everybody know what actually happened?

But does everyone actually know what really happened?

Apparently some people don't:

GOP Rep Lies About Capitol Attack

You know if you didn't know the footage was a video from January the 6th, you would actually think it was a normal tourist visit.

(If anyone is wondering what really happened-- and whether or not January 6th was actually just like a "regular tourist visit"-- see the moist excellent video posted in comment # 10. 1. 1 ,   above)

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Principal
11.2.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Krishna @11.2    3 weeks ago

Those who lie about what happened on January 6, 2021 at the Capitol building are going to live to regret their lies. They are to a degree accomplices and supporters of the insurrection, and should be charged as such.

One only has to watch a video of what happened on that day to tell that the insurrectionists that invaded the Capitol building that day were NOT peaceful protesters. Their lame attempts to try and make Trump look like an innocent good guy has/will backfire on them two fold. And they will wish they had not placed their faith in Trump.

I hope their trip under the bus will be short lived, but, that is doubtful.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
12  JBB    4 weeks ago

Here is another "Democratic Insurrection Meme"!

original

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Principal
12.1  Raven Wing  replied to  JBB @12    3 weeks ago

AMEN!! jrSmiley_24_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
Professor Guide
13  Freedom Warrior    4 weeks ago

The whole insurrection theme is a joke.  

Supposedly a bunch of unarmed patriots storming the capital is a freak out threat to democracy while simultaneously the same people will claim that no amount of guns allowed per the 2nd Amendment could ever be a threat to the tyrants ruling over the US.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
13.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Freedom Warrior @13    4 weeks ago

What was it then, a flagpole party? 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
13.2  JBB  replied to  Freedom Warrior @13    4 weeks ago

And yet, we all watched with our own eyes the angry Trump supporters storming the US Congress, actually stopping our representatives from competing a constitutionally mandated vote, in theit violent attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power.

Why should I believe your alternate reality? Who am I to believe? You and Nerm? Or, my own lying eyes? 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
13.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Freedom Warrior @13    4 weeks ago

256

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
13.3.1  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @13.3    4 weeks ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
13.3.2  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @13.3    3 weeks ago
What 'actual facts'????????

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
13.3.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @13.3.2    3 weeks ago

Read it s l o w l y. It will come around............................

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
13.3.4  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @13.3.3    3 weeks ago

Reading it slower doesn't change the fact that it's bullshit and no facts to be found or a source or citation.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
13.3.5  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @13.3.4    3 weeks ago

Were they heavily armed? Nope which, if open mind was a trait, you and others would KNOW that they weren't out to kill anyone FFS.............or they would have on the way in. And it IS a fact. No citation needed if one was paying attention without bias glasses in place.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
13.3.6  Texan1211  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @13.3.5    3 weeks ago

I find it so odd that people refer to it as an insurrection--even though no attempt to involve or take over the military was involved, no AR-15's fired at will in Congress, no one came forward as leader of the insurrection, etc.

As far as I can tell no one tried to replace the President of the US, either. Or members of Congress.

Pretty bad planning for an "insurrection" if you ask me!
I mean, seriously, how would a relatively small group of people take over the US government without replacing the President or enlisting the military?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
13.3.7  Ronin2  replied to  Texan1211 @13.3.6    3 weeks ago

Stop hitting them with facts.

Funny how the left only started to care about officers during the Jan 6th riot; after not giving a shit about them for the last 5 plus years when far more were injured by their "mostly peaceful protesters".

The left would literally shit bricks if they were ever faced with a real insurrection; like the one that Obama backed in the Ukraine. Or the one Obama's policies allowed in Yemen. No one was at those insurrections to take selfies and trash the place. People died; governments fled; and the civil wars that followed are still going on. That is the reality of a true insurrection.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
13.4  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Freedom Warrior @13    3 weeks ago
Supposedly a bunch of unarmed patriots storming the capital is a freak out threat to democracy while simultaneously the same people will claim that no amount of guns allowed per the 2nd Amendment could ever be a threat to the tyrants ruling over the US.

The unarmed patriots storming the Capitol really is a threat to our Constitutional system of government.  The use of violence to coerce government is not democracy.  And the government acceding to that violence places our Constitutional system of government in jeopardy.

But the violent protests to attack cities poses as great a threat to our Constitutional system of government as did the attack on the Capitol.  Democrats are claiming that comparing the attack on the Capitol to violent protests around the country downplays the significance of the attack on the Capitol.  What that really means is that Democrats are downplaying the significance of the threat posed by violent protests in cities around the country.  The Democrats' insurrection meme is about trivializing their own insurrection problem.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
13.4.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Nerm_L @13.4    3 weeks ago

Unarmed?  Exsqueeze me?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
14  Hal A. Lujah    4 weeks ago

Do you have a Benghazi meme article?  How about a Clinton blowjob meme article?  Or were those more events more serious than a violent attempt to overthrow American democracy from the inside?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
14.1  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @14    4 weeks ago

True Hal - it was also an inside job.  Spurred on/incited by/led by trumpturd.

Taylor-Greene and Boebert and others were giving tours to the insurrectionists the day before.  

Also letting trumpturd's dumbturds know where to find Ms. Pelosi and Ms. Ocasio-Cortez.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
14.2  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @14    4 weeks ago
Do you have a Benghazi meme article?  How about a Clinton blowjob meme article?  Or were those more events more serious than a violent attempt to overthrow American democracy from the inside?

Yes, Democrat's insurrection meme serves the same political purpose as Republican's Benghazi meme.  The intent of the meme investigations is to provide political talking points that can be used in campaign ads.  Nothing more substantial than that.

Meme investigations are used by the party in power to attack and harm political opponents.  Nothing less and nothing more.  Congress is using its investigative authority to strengthen and perpetuate a rigged two party political system.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
14.2.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @14.2    4 weeks ago

Tell me something Nerm.

If the British had made it to where the 2nd Continental Congress was taking the vote on independence, what do you think they would have been charged with?

Treason, for trying to overthrow the king. 

What do you think the intent of those who overran the capital was?

They said what they wanted to do. They wanted to kill both Pence and Pelosi. They wanted to overturn the election. In other words, they committed treason.

The FBI poster is appropriate.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
14.2.2  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @14.2.1    3 weeks ago
If the British had made it to where the 2nd Continental Congress was taking the vote on independence, what do you think they would have been charged with?

Treason, for trying to overthrow the king. 

What do you think the intent of those who overran the capital was?

They said what they wanted to do. They wanted to kill both Pence and Pelosi. They wanted to overturn the election. In other words, they committed treason.

No doubt the 2nd Continental Congress would have hung together.  During the 1770s the British government deployed the military to put down uprisings in colonies.  

Yes, the British would have charged the 2nd Continental Congress with treason and would have executed them.  But the British would have sent in cavalry to sabre the protesters in cities, too.  Protesters would have been shot down in the streets by British infantry.  The British government would not have sent in social workers to diffuse the situation.  The British government would have treated attacks on cities by protesters as a treasonous attack on the Crown, too.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
14.2.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @14.2.2    3 weeks ago

Nerm, first we must talk about the difference between a protest, which is allowed by our constitution, and attacks on cities. 

The protest with armed protesters at the Michigan statehouse is just as allowed as a BLM protest. I don't have to agree with either or disagree with either to know that this is guaranteed by our Constitution. 

What was not allowed was going after Michigan's Gov. Whitmer or looting several cities. What is also not is going after the VP and the speaker of the house while forcefully trespassing into our countries Capital while in session. 

I think that this is a point we can both agree upon.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
14.2.4  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @14.2.3    3 weeks ago
Nerm, first we must talk about the difference between a protest, which is allowed by our constitution, and attacks on cities. 

The protest with armed protesters at the Michigan statehouse is just as allowed as a BLM protest. I don't have to agree with either or disagree with either to know that this is guaranteed by our Constitution. 

What was not allowed was going after Michigan's Gov. Whitmer or looting several cities. What is also not is going after the VP and the speaker of the house while forcefully trespassing into our countries Capital while in session. 

I think that this is a point we can both agree upon.

Yes, we can agree that violent protest is not acceptable.  But violent protest has become just another day in America.

The protest on Jan. 6 began peacefully as have many, many protests around the country.  A number of speakers addressed the crowd as has happened at many, many other protests.  The speakers aired grievances, led chants, and used incendiary language as have speakers at many, many protests around the country.  The protesters marched toward a focal point for the protest.  The protesters confronted police as has happened at many, many protests around the country.  The protesters broke through barricades and police lines as has happened at many, many other protests.  Some of the protesters vandalized and looted a building that was a focal point for the protest as has happened at many, many protests around the country. 

The events that transpired on Jan. 6 in Washington D.C. progressed in the same manner as many, many other protests around the country.  And the outcome of the protest on Jan. 6 was only different than the outcome of many, many other protests because of location.  The protest on Jan. 6 was much the same as many, many other protests around the country.  The protest on Jan. 6 was just another day in America.

What happened on Jan. 6 was not unique, novel, new, or unprecedented.  There have been many, many similar protests around the country over the last six years that have followed the same progression.  Democrats are promoting a meme of insurrection based solely upon the idea that Congress, the political process, and politicians' lives matter more than anything else in the United States.

Just ignore that the protest on Jan. 6 was much the same as many, many other protests around the country.  Just ignore that attacks on civil society matters less than attacks on the political process and politicians.  Just ignore that politicians are claiming that their lives and livelihood matters more than anything else.

That's the Democrats' insurrection meme.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
14.2.5  JBB  replied to  Nerm_L @14.2.4    3 weeks ago

What a steaming load of crap you are selling! 

One Hundred Eighty police officers were injured by Trump's Mob on January 6th...

What other event resulted in even five hurt?

None!

False equivalencies are false on their faces!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
14.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @14.2.4    3 weeks ago

It wasn't a protest by trumpturd dumbturds - it was a failed coup led by trumpturd and white supremacists.  

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
14.2.7  JBB  replied to  Tessylo @14.2.6    3 weeks ago

Don't you hate it when Nerm pisses on our legs then tries to convince us that it was raining?