'Shattered' to tell story of Clinton's failed presidential bid TheHill

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I'm still amazed that the democratic far left is sill in abject denial of the real reasons they lost. It was the one-two punch of both Obama and Hillary.

Then why are Obama's approval ratings so high ?

They are wasting time. Real, serious players in the Democratic party should be soul-searching and planning for how they are going to re-group and recover from this election.  This was not just a Presidential election loss, but a loss across the board, local, state and federal.  Wasting time playing the 'But he sucks' card doesn't add any credit to their position.  They need to figure out why they lost the 'Fly over states' vote.  Until they realize the reasons they lost, the real reasons, and address them they will continue to barely tread water.  The next election is theirs to lose.

I'm curious.  I hear many members here say the Democrats need to figure out why they lost but you never reveal those reasons in your comments.  Then you mention the cliche ""fly over States".  I guess that's the cliche term this year.  Lol.  Personally I think the Democrats should lay low and take a back seat and let the Republicans govern and let's see what they can do for those "fly over States".  I'd like to see what the Republicans can do.  

I think I know the reasons, but that doesn't matter-the hierarchy of the Democratic Party is the one with the issue(s). Thye lost at virtually all levels this year. If that was you, would you not try to figure out why you lost and what you could do to not lose next time? If you think you should sit back and depend on your opposition to help you win next time, more power to you, but I believe that is a naïve way to go forward.

Looking at the electoral college map, Hillary won the coasts, Trump won the inland states (more or less).  The term 'flyover' was coined because your candidate concentrated on the left and right coasts, where she was pretty much guaranteed a win anyway, based on voting history.  She did not connect (nor did many Democrat candidates) with all those other people in between the coasts.

I know why I don't like either of the two major parties. I also have my own ideas as to why the democrats lost. Quite frankly, there is an entire litany of reasons as to why the democrats lost.  Because I'm too lazy at the moment, this is one venue that may help; Google .

 Quite frankly, there is an entire litany of reasons as to why the democrats lost.

Good point. often in online discussions, some people insist that there was "the reason that Hillary lost"-- as if there was only one reason. Actually there were several contributing factors.

Most of the comments from Democrats that I've read seems to indicate that they will continue to lose-- until they stop being in denial as to why they lost.

There are democrats, then there are Clintonian democrats.  In my opinion, the Clintons pushed the pay to play  ideology into the for-profit democratic party and that spelled their downfall.  They lost in a major way.  Their house of cards is already falling down.

Aeon you are right. There are Dems and then there are Clinton Dems. The regular Dems, held their nose and pulled the lever. That is what my Dad and hubby and inlaws did.

But it was more than that. It was the assumption that she she was the heir apparent. It was believing the polls. It was Comey. It was hubris. 

The party is in disarray. If they put Keith Ellison in as head of the DNC, the party is blown. He has too much dirty laundry and some really bad connections.

Perrie is one of those moderates whose political criticism tends to mainly fall on Democrats. 

I don't think you will find much criticism from her about Donald Trump, who in my opinion and the opinion of millions of people is the single worst presidential candidate in US history. You would think as a moderate she would have more negative commentary about Trump than we have seen. 

I am pretty sure she did not vote for Trump, which makes the hesitance to criticize him even less understandable. 

This forum has become a right wing echo chamber. If I am not on and if a very few other people are not on, the forum is overrun with idiotic anti-Clinton 'retrospectives' rehashing over and over why she lost. 

If I don't seed it, virtually nothing negative about Trump is seen on this forum. 

I don't think this is what Perrie wants, but it is what she is getting. 

This article is nothing but an advertisement for a book, seeded here as a means to rehash the election again. 

The forum is sinking fast. 

Perrie is one of those moderates whose political criticism tends to mainly fall on Democrats. 

In this case, yes. I am angry at them. They presented a poor candidate which gave us Trump.

I don't think you will find much criticism from her about Donald Trump, who in my opinion and the opinion of millions of people is the single worst presidential candidate in US history. You would think as a moderate she would have more negative commentary about Trump than we have seen. 

He is an egotist, sexist pig, arrogant, compulsive liar, narcissist and self serving. Is that enough criticism for you, John?

I am pretty sure she did not vote for Trump, which makes the hesitance to criticize him even less understandable.

 For obvious reasons, I can't say who I voted for. You can all read between the lines.

This forum has become a right wing echo chamber. If I am not on and if a very few other people are not on, the forum is overrun with idiotic anti-Clinton 'retrospectives' rehashing over and over why she lost. 

John, I have seen many liberals here speaking their mind. Rehashing why she lost is important so that it doesn't happen again... if you care about your party.

If I don't seed it, virtually nothing negative about Trump is seen on this forum. 

There I agree with you. For shame on the rest.

I don't think this is what Perrie wants, but it is what she is getting. 

What I want is intelligent discussion from the full spectrum of politics. I am tired of hacky seeds. I would love it if someone actually wrote something.

This article is nothing but an advertisement for a book, seeded here as a means to rehash the election again. 

The book has been discussed by major news. It is relevant, even if you don't like it. 

The forum is sinking fast. 

Sorry you feel that way. Talk to your fellow Dems/liberals. It is not my place to do so.

I have personally seeded dozens of articles about Trump over the past year and a half that are by the best opinion journalists in America. Not hack, as you call it. You commented on virtually none of them. 

I have seen you come on the Clinton bashing threads more than once to give a tacit agreement with it. 

Don't bring your "hack" complaints to me. You have someone here who has seeded fake news dozens of times , and even contrived fake "news articles" himself on more than one occasion that were not identified as such. I don't recall any particular objection by you about those items. 

You seem to have bought hook line and sinker the fraudulent argument that "everyone posts fake news", a minor variation of the "both sides do it" theme you have been so convinced of over the years. 

Many studies have shown that the right creates and uses fake news much more than "liberals" do.  I don't seed fake news at all. I have never posted anything here that I knew to be false. No honest person could say the same about other people. 

It is your site and you can do whatever you want. 

I have personally seeded dozens of articles about Trump over the past year and a half that are by the best opinion journalists in America. Not hack, as you call it. You commented on virtually none of them. 

I tend not to comment on political articles, due to my position here and especially before the election. Now that we are post, I have said my piece about both.

I have seen you come on the Clinton bashing threads more than once to give a tacit agreement with it. 

Clinton bashing? John, Mrs. Clinton blew the election and it was her fault. We have Trump due to things she controlled but didn't handle well, with the exception of Comey. I am doing nothing more than Monday morning quarterbacking.

Don't bring your "hack" complaints to me. You have someone here who has seeded fake news dozens of times , and even contrived fake "news articles" himself on more than one occasion that were not identified as such. I don't recall any particular objection by you about those items. 

Your kidding right? I agree we have to stop with the fake news bit, since it discredits every discussion on the news. As for the individual you are talking about, they have had their fair share of grief from me and have given them many objections.

You seem to have bought hook line and sinker the fraudulent argument that "everyone posts fake news", a minor variation of the "both sides do it" theme you have been so convinced of over the years. 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Those are your words. I have never said that.

Many studies have shown that the right creates and uses fake news much more than "liberals" do.  I don't seed fake news at all. I have never posted anything here that I knew to be false. No honest person could say the same about other people. 

That may be true. But then again.. this is all subjective.

It is your site and you can do whatever you want.

Actually, it belongs to the group. They made the rules. I only enforce them. 

You seem to have bought hook line and sinker the fraudulent argument that "everyone posts fake news", a minor variation of the "both sides do it" theme you have been so convinced of over the years. 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Those are your words. I have never said that.

Many studies have shown that the right creates and uses fake news much more than "liberals" do. 

That may be true. But then again.. this is all subjective.

"Fake news" is not subjective. It is the deliberate creation or reporting of something that is not factual. 

The fact that you think fake news is in the eye of the beholder only reinforces my point. 

Tel you what John, its getting old, VERY OLD.

It's the massive dose of I hate Trump that one is subjected to on a daily basis here.

It's getting to be the only thing anyone gets from the site.

The real funny part is how you put opinion over fact, newspapers tell the truth, their opinions are gospel.

AS long as you agree with them.

Everybody else, no matter how well educated, experienced and informed, is wrong.

You drag even fair minded liberals into your hate filled world.

I can only imagine how tired they are getting of it.

You pollute the site.

And I believe the site would be much better off without you and your constant barrage of hate.

Sincerely

NWM

"Go away"

Its funny that you can't see your reflection in the mirror you are holding.  There's left (you and a couple others) and right, then there's lots of other stuff posted that isn't left or right, which you and others roundly ignore, which disappears off the front page in a few minutes.

You, John, are as much to blame as anyone else.  The world does not revolve around politics, but you are so busy demonizing the other side, that rarely is there a comment that you make that isn't clickbait for one side or the other.  You want a better level of conversation?  Physician, heal thyself.

I have seeded more non political content than anyone in the history of this site.

As for you, your credentials as a "moderate" , at least on this site, have disintegrated into a pool of your constant complaining about democrats, liberals, Clinton and Obama. Maybe you are an independent or moderate when you go into the voting booth, but you are not on NT, so please stop fooling yourself, because you have long past stopped fooling anyone else. 

John,

You know little to nothing of me.  I'm far more to the center than you can understand, because in your world, the center is the far right wing to you.  You are so far left, that even NASCAR can't make the corners like you do.  The simple thing is I have called out Democrats during this election cycle because they lost the election, the right didn't win, the left lost it and it was theirs to win.  The fact that you can't see that, while not a surprise, shows everyone else here exactly what your mindset is.

Spike, I am not far left at all. I may be more center on many issues than you are. 

I do support the Democrats because we have a two party political system, and that is not going to change any time in the near future, what I would also call the lifetimes of many of the people on this forum. It is conceivable I suppose that a Perot like figure could win the presidency , but he would be without any political structure in Congress. On a national basis across the states there are no third parties winning elections and it will be decades before there is, if there ever is. The U.S. is a two party system. People should voice their opinions and work to make the parties more moderate , or more liberal or more conservative , or whatever it is they like. 

Newstalkers has become a right wing/libertarian echo chamber. What else explains this ridiculous obsession with Hillary Clinton? and even Obama? , yet if I do not seed about Trump, or some other criticism of the right, it basically is not here. 

Everyone knows this at this point. "Liberals" have stopped seeding or commenting on the front page in some cases, or have left altogether. 

I'm only tossing out, an educated guess. I stopped believing in the old, traditional two party system. I support more than two party system.  I would like to see both of the two old, for-profit parties, lose their control of this government.

I'm curious.  I hear many members here say the Democrats need to figure out why they lost but you never reveal those reasons in your comments.

For one thing PJ, Trump had nearly twice as many campaign events as Hillary did.  In the month of October Trump was in front of 181,000 people while Clinton was only in front of 11,000 people.  Hillary also didn't even go to Wisconsin after the Primary.

Not any different than canvassing a neighborhood to sell a product, if you knock on twice as many doors you'll have a lot better chance of selling that product than your friend who only canvasses half the number of doors as you do. 

There are other reasons, but this is one of them.

Some of the others are Stupid Media sound bites like calling half the country (roughly) 'Deplorables' (seen as an insult and then a rallying cry against the disconnected D.C. elite), the lack of integrity shown by e-mail leaks (no one likes that Russia may be the culprit) but it doesn't excuse the content of those e-mails, showing the Democratic Leadership, including Hillary as little more than a Mafia Crime Family, rigging primaries and the like.

Just a couple more examples.

Hillary never explained why she wanted to be president other than to make history by busting the last glass ceiling. That's enough of a reason for some people but it doesn't motivate me at all. Some of her rhetoric about Trump is a criticism about what banter men are allowed to engage in amongst themselves in private. I'm sure a lot of men reacted with "fuck her". The she and the press went into a war hoop over his bragging in private that some women let him grab their pussy when they know full well that there are many women who will let men do that . . . if they are rich, ball players, actors, musicians etc. 

In my opinion, what she tried to do was duplicate Obama's winning coalition but it didn't work.

After the failed George Bush presidency, obama seemed like a breath of fresh air. He was an eloquent speaker who promised hope and change. He had the wind at his back. Hillary was anything but fresh, lying incessantly and dragging 40 years of Clinton baggage. 

Most of the country believes we're headed in the wrong direction. Hillary essentially promised to be a third term of Obama. For those people that thought he was headed the wrong way, Hillary offered more of the same.

She said her service in the senate and as Secretary of State qualified her to be president but it was a history of mediocrity and/or failure since most people couldn't name a single thing that she accomplished that was good for them. On top of that, her pay for play and Clinton foundation scheme was an outrageous conflict of interest.

Hillary offered the black people in obama's coalition the assurance that she would continue his policies. However, his policies really didn't improve anything for black people so that fell flat. She needed them to show up at the polls in the same numbers as they did for Obama. They didn't.

She promised nothing to stem the flow of illegal aliens. That appealed to many Hispanic supporters and her base but turned off lots of other people (including me).

She tried to get the youth vote but they went to Bernie, who seemed like a saint compared to her and actually had a message for them. Then she colluded with the DNC/media to push Bernie out of the race. Wikileaks exposed her skullduggery and she attacked Wikileaks for exposing her. Bernie supporters dropped her in droves.

She tried to push the LGBT agenda, including the North Carolina transgender bathroom issue. That may have energized some of her base but many people (including me) are sick and tired of hearing about what LGBT people want, especially when it gets to this kind of nonsense.

She went to economically depressed areas and basically told them they were shit out of luck when it came to jobs. So on Election Day, they told her she was shit out of luck when it came to votes. 

She ran a campaign that labeled Trump a racist, misogynist, moron, lout etc and then said vote for me because I'm not him. Good for her base who was already voting for her but it didn't get votes from people who either didn't see Trump that way or ignored his bad qualities the same way her supporters ignored hers. Then she attacked the Trump supporters as deplorables. If I were on the fence, and my mother was a Trump supporter, calling her deplorable simply because she liked Trump is probably going to piss me off.

The "useless" Benghazi hearings uncovered that Hillary had a secret server. That ultimately led to an FBI investigation. While Hillary was continuing to lie about it, her husband snuck on the attorney general's plane to talk about "children". To get herself out of looking like she was biased, the attorney general publicly threw the hot potatoe into Comey's lap and made the investigation political. When Comey tried to be ethical and transparent, Hillary and others attacked him for tipping the scales against her when the investigation wouldn't have been necessary in the first place if she hadn't been lying and conniving. 

And on and on and on.

Hillary Clinton personifies what I hate in a candidate. I would never ever vote for a person like this nor would I ever vote for an ignoramus like Trump. The two party system is a complete failure when these are my choices. 

See, it didn't take reading a book to explain why she lost.  You pretty much summed it up.  The idea that it was time for a woman president may have resonated better if she had been a likable woman.  But she really wasn't likable.  Her personal appeal with voters was almost non existent.

I still have 2 Senators, 1 congressman for my congressional district, and the Governor in my state who are Democrats. Seems good to me. Up to you guys to 'drain the swamp', between the coasts. You lay down and elect assholes, don't cry if you get a lot of shit in return. You deserve it.

Agreed. Seems like all the assholes are the same, some are just bigger than others.

I still have 2 Senators, 1 congressman for my congressional district, and the Governor in my state who are Democrats

And while that may be true, the Republicans will now have the Presidency, control of both houses of Congress, and will have their way re: nominations for, and conformation of, the next 1 to 3 justices of the Supreme Court.

So which factor do you think will control the future direction of the country-- what i just mentioned-- or your 2 Senators, 1 congressman, and your governor?

Shoo be doo way