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US SHOOTS DOWN SYRIAN AIR FORCE FIGHTER

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  kavika  •  7 years ago  •  37 comments

US SHOOTS DOWN SYRIAN AIR FORCE FIGHTER

 

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The U.S. military on Sunday shot down a Syrian Air Force fighter jet that bombed local forces aligned with the Americans in the fight against Islamic State militants, an action that appeared to mark a new escalation of the conflict.

The U.S.-led coalition headquarters in Iraq said in a written statement that a U.S. F-18 Super Hornet shot down a Syrian government SU-22 after it dropped bombs near the U.S. partner forces, known as the Syrian Democratic Forces. The shootdown was near the Syrian town of Tabqa.

The U.S. military statement said it acted in "collective self defense" of its partner forces and that the U.S. did not seek a fight with the Syrian government or its Russian supporters.

U.S. forces tangled earlier this month with Syria-allied aircraft in the region. On June 8, U.S. officials reported that a drone likely connected to Iranian-supported Hezbollah forces fired on U.S.-backed troops and was shot down by an American fighter jet. The incident took place in southern Syria near a base where the U.S.-led coalition was training Syrian rebels fighting the Islamic State group.

An Army spokesman at the Pentagon said at the time that the drone carried more weapons and was considered a direct threat, prompting the shootdown.

Just hours earlier, the U.S. bombed Syrian government and allied troops inside a protected zone in that area, and marked a sharp escalation in the skirmishes between the coalition and those pro-Syrian government forces there.

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Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika     7 years ago

With the US backing of the YPG and allies in Syria the confrontations will continue with the forces allied with Syrian government.

 

 
 
 
Enoch
Masters Quiet
link   Enoch  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

Dear Friend Kavika: May G-d help us against our enemies and allies in that war torn former state.

Enoch.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Enoch   7 years ago

Agreed niijii, we've lost 6 Army Rangers in the past month. 

When is enough, enough.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
link   Randy  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

The U.S. military statement said it acted in "collective self defense" of its partner forces and that the U.S. did not seek a fight with the Syrian government or its Russian supporters.

Donald Trump has said that they (the Russians) are there assisting us in our battle against ISIS. Somehow it doesn't seem to be coming out that way? The Kurds, on the other hand, have been the backbone of taking city after city away from the phony Caliphate! Even then though ISIS will just turn into another version of Al Qaeda, with vermin spread around the world instead of in centralized location that can be fought with traditional military means.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Randy   7 years ago

The only thing that the Russians are doing in Syria is protecting their own interests, period.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
link   Randy  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

No doubt about it and their number one interest in the area is the continuation of the dictatorship of Basar al-Assad.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Randy   7 years ago

''No doubt about it and their number one interest in the area is the continuation of the dictatorship of Basar al-Assad.''

That and a port for their navy at Tartus.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Participates
link   Randy  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

They have a shortage of warm water, year 'round ports and they'll protect them at all costs.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Randy   7 years ago

They have a shortage of warm water, year 'round ports and they'll protect them at all costs.

At one point the USSR had a bigger presence in the Meditteranean-- for one thing Egypt was a Soviet "client state". A great place to use to project Soviet power...

But since Egypt is now a "U.S. client state", I believe that Russia doesn't have a single port in the Meditteranean-- so obviously Putin sees a pro-Russian gov't in Syria as being crucial.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Krishna   7 years ago

The Russians are already embeded in the Syrian port of Tartus.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

''No doubt about it and their number one interest in the area is the continuation of the dictatorship of Basar al-Assad.''

That and a port for their navy at Tartus.

Exactly. Assad (the current official Syrian gov't) is friendly to Russia. If the rebels overthrow him, the new gov't would be hostile to Russia-- so Assad and his allies (Iran, Russia, & the Lebanese terror group Hezb' Allah) are doing everything they can to ensure that Assad stays in power.

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

So are the Americans. Obama didn't take the U.S. there just to be nice.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

Aeon, I'm not sure what our interests are there except to try to stop the slaughter and give air cover to the YPG. 

Right or wrong it is what it is. With all the competing forces involved in Syria, there is at some time bound to be a clash between them. 

In your opinion, why did he take us there?

 

 

 

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

I do not agree that the US is in Syria for anything even closely resembling altruistic reasons. The amount of innocent Syrian civilians being killed in our bombing and drone raids attests to that.

U.N. says 300 civilians killed in U.S.-led air strikes in Raqqa since March

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

Agreed, numerous civilians have been killed. But what is you opinion as to why we are there?

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

Fair question. This may be conjecture but it is logical and very probable. Why has Qatar been in the news recently?

 

1491482353580.jpg

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

Certainly a possibility, the but recent developments with Qatar, although with Trump now selling billions of dollars worth of arms to Qatar leaves one wondering what the hell is going on there. 

Here is the lastest response from the Russians. Yes, things are heating up between the US and Russia.

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

We have dueling pipeline strategies people are getting killed over. One, no morally better than the other....both driven by GREED.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

The pipeline ''war'' will always be about greed Aeon, it is there and it is in the US.

Sadly this will continue to get civilians/miliatry killed. 

I'm always reminded of General Smedly Butler, (War is a Racket) comment on his career.

  I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for  Wall Street  and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially  Tampico  safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the  National City Bank  boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify  Nicaragua  for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make  Honduras  right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that  Standard Oil  went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given  Al Capone  a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

I do not agree that the US is in Syria for anything even closely resembling altruistic reasons. 

Unlike when other nations go to war-- because other than the evil U.S., all other warring nations do so only for altruistic reasons!

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Krishna   7 years ago

Huh?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Aeonpax   7 years ago

I do not agree that the US is in Syria for anything even closely resembling altruistic reasons. The amount of innocent Syrian civilians being killed in our bombing and drone raids attests to that.

U.N. says 300 civilians killed in U.S.-led air strikes in Raqqa since March

So based on your comment, I assume that you would be opposed to Allied actions during WWII? 

300 killed? 

Well, to cite one example-- Allied action vs the Germans in Dresden:

The  bombing of Dresden  was a  British / American  aerial bombing attack on the city of  Dresden , the capital of the German state of  Saxony , that took place during the  Second World War  in the  European Theatre . In four raids between 13 and 15 February 1945,

722  heavy bombers  of the British  Royal Air Force  (RAF) and 527 of the  United States Army Air Forces  (USAAF) dropped more than 3,900 tons of  high-explosive  bombs and  incendiary devices  on the city. [1]  The bombing and the resulting  firestorm  destroyed over 1,600 acres (6.5 km 2 ) of the city centre.

An estimated 22,700  to 25,000  people were killed, although inflated casualty figures have been claimed over the years. Three more USAAF air raids followed, two occurring on 2 March aimed at the city's  railroad marshaling yard  and one small raid on 17 April aimed at industrial areas.

300? Nope-- -- we murdered 20,000+ !!!

Altruism? 

I don't think so... 

 

 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Krishna   7 years ago

The  bombing of Dresden  was a  British / American  aerial bombing attack on the city of  Dresden

300? Nope-- -- we murdered 20,000+ !!!

Altruism? 

I don't think so... 

_____________________________

And then there's this: 

 The bombing and the resulting  firestorm  destroyed over 1,600 acres (6.5 km 2 ) of the city centre. [2]  

City Centre-- get it? This was a Allied attack deliberately aimed at Germans in the "City centre" -- in other words, it was deliberately aimed at civilians , not at German military forces.

  So Aeon-- do you think the motive was greed?  

That perhaps we were out to "steal the Germans' oil?"

Or that since we deliberately massacred civilians (OMG-- even more than 300! More than 300-- unbelieveable!!!) that we should never have gotten involved in WWII?

(WWII-- "It's all about oil"!)

 

 
 
 
Aeonpax
Freshman Silent
link   Aeonpax  replied to  Krishna   7 years ago

I'm quite aware of the American atrocities being committed in the middle east. I only posted that example because it's recent.  If you want to expand on that, which you are doing, I say Go For It.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

Aeon, I'm not sure what our interests are there except to try to stop the slaughter and give air cover to the YPG. 

IMO we actually have conflciting interests:

1. To stop the slaughter by the Assad-Iranian-Russian-Hezb'Allah alliance. Which means opposing Assad and supporting the rebels.

2. Opposing ISIS & al Qaeda. But they are also opposing Assad & Iran. 

So if Assad & his allies are weakened-- ISIS is strengthened. If Assad & his allies are stronger, then ISIS is weakened.

(Our interests there actually are in weakening or even destroying two opposing sides-- ISIS & Assad).

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser    7 years ago

Bravo to the Air Force-- maybe they will think twice before doing this again!

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Dowser   7 years ago

Sadly Dowser, I don't think that it will. There have been other incidents like this in the past month or so.

 
 
 
Dowser
Sophomore Quiet
link   Dowser  replied to  Kavika   7 years ago

It bothers me that Russia can fly over Finland, etc. with impunity...  I'm proud of our Air Force and wish to give them all the credit in the world for their achievements-- but I doubt that anyone will learn anything from this...  Not our enemies, for sure....

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Dowser   7 years ago

 but I doubt that anyone will learn anything from this

Unfortunately that seems to be the case throughout most of world  history. Sad

Here's what many fail to realize about Syria (& Afghanistan and...):

  quag·mire

ˈkwaɡˌmī(ə)r/
noun
 
  1. a soft boggy area of land that gives way underfoot.
    "torrential rain turned the building site into a quagmire"
    synonyms: swamp morass bog marsh muskeg mire slough
    archaic quag
    "the field became a quagmire"

an awkward, complex, or hazardous situation.

"a legal quagmire"
synonyms: muddle mix-up mess predicament mare's nest , can of worms,  quandary tangle imbroglio More

 

Awkward? Yup.

Complex? Definitely (although most uninformed people can't resist the urge to try to attempt to make it all about only one thing... which thing they choose depends upon their political agenda)

Hazardous? Well, not as bad as the 300 civilians the U.S. is alleged to have killed ,of course, but still fairly hazardous:

Death Count in Syria: 470,000 -  Children: 55,000

 

 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Dowser   7 years ago

Bravo to the Air Force-- maybe they will think twice before doing this again!

From a psychological perspective, Obama & Trump are opposite types. Obama was quite thoughtful before acting--- he tended not to be impulsive. Trump is the opposite-- he acts without thinking. 

So unless his advisers (or Congress) start to exert more influence over him, the American involvement there will probably escalate. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Krishna   7 years ago

From a psychological perspective, Obama & Trump are opposite types. Obama was quite thoughtful before acting--- he tended not to be impulsive. Trump is the opposite-- he acts without thinking. 

So unless his advisers (or Congress) start to exert more influence over him, the American involvement there will probably escalate. 

IMO the same is true for Afghanistan :-(

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Participates
link   Larry Hampton    7 years ago

There are only so many pressure points that can be pushed without a valve somewhere letting go. This thing will go fubar at some point...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/irans-revolutionary-guard-strikes-syria-for-tehran-attacks/2017/06/18/0c764970-549f-11e7-840b-512026319da7_story.html?utm_term=.f0a49af50c74

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  Larry Hampton   7 years ago

I'm sure that it will go FUBAR at some point, Larry. 

 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  Larry Hampton   7 years ago

There are only so many pressure points that can be pushed without a valve somewhere letting go. This thing will go fubar at some point...

Important article-- thanks for the link! 

 
 
 
PJ
Masters Quiet
link   PJ    7 years ago

This is one of those complicated foreign situations.  We can already see the effects it is having between the US and Russian relations.  It's clear to me that this fight isn't so much about Syria any longer but more about Russia's power.    

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   seeder  Kavika   replied to  PJ   7 years ago

That's seems to me the point of it all Pj.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Expert
link   Krishna  replied to  PJ   7 years ago

This is one of those complicated foreign situations.  We can already see the effects it is having between the US and Russian relations.  It's clear to me that this fight isn't so much about Syria any longer but more about Russia's power.   

True.

And its also about the age-old sectarian religious conflict (Sunni vs Shia). 

And the age-old Arab vs Persian (Iran) conflict.

And the struggle between Islamic moderates and Islamic extremists.

And the so-called "Arab Spring".

And the aspirations of various politicians world-wide (including the U.S.).

And the defense industry lobbies (U.S. and elsewhere).

And the illegal occupation of Kurdistan.

And...more!

(The KISS technique falls flat on its face if used in an analysis of the Syrian conflict).

 
 

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