Healing the Racial Divide
Monday marked the 54th anniversary of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. In the shadow of the Lincoln Memorial, King’s prophetic message offered a vision of an America where people would be judged “not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” He also spoke of the “promissory note” issued by the Declaration of Independence to black Americans, guaranteeing their due share of equality and justice.
As racial tensions simmer, questions remain. Have we paid off that note? Have we embraced or do we reject Dr. King’s dream? And where is the church in healing our divide?
Two events Monday pointed to some answers. Much attention went to the One Thousand Ministers March for Justice, organized by Al Sharpton. The Washington Post headline sums that event up: “Religious leaders gather in Washington to show unified moral opposition to Trump.” (So much for our struggles not being “against enemies of blood and flesh.” Ephesians 6:12)
However, earlier in the morning, there was another event. A racially-mixed panel of religious leaders held a press conference at the National Press Club on “Healing the Racial Divide.” Their message didn’t focus on one man in the White House. It centered on setting into action those in God’s House, doing our part in our own house, looking into our own hearts. The godly men and women gathered called for 40 days of fasting and prayer, starting today.
Healing the Racial Divide
The “Healing the Racial Divide” initiative is an outgrowth of The Reconciled Church movement founded by Rev. Harry Jackson, Bishop T.D. Jakes and Stream publisher James Robison. The gathered leaders Monday were white, black, Hispanic, Asian and Native American.
As MLK’s niece, pro-life civil rights leader Dr. Alveda King, kept pointing out, there is only one race — the human race — and only one blood. Yet as Jackson said, “Racism is America’s original sin.” And we must repent of our sin.
Jackson said that throughout the history of the Church, Christians have done too little to overcome it. He noted the “courageous efforts” of Christian Abolitionists, civil rights leaders and social activists, but said “the American Church has never reached the critical level of engagement and unified action to end the influence and reign of terror of racism in our nation.”
However, said Jackson, if we do repent, “God can heal our land.”
“Whites Have Got to Repent. Blacks Have Got to Forgive”
This theme of repentance kept arising throughout the morning. Dr. Jim Garlow, senior pastor at Skyline Church in San Diego, told the powerful story of meeting this past weekend with an African-American pastor, Dr. Lawrence van Hook. Dr. Garlow was hoping that his friend would look over a section pertaining to racism from an upcoming book he’s writing. Garlow got far more. For a full hour and 45 minutes, Dr. van Hook instead unleashed a “torrent of pain.” Garlow says he got a “crash course on the depths of the wounding.”
At the end, Dr. van Hook hung his head. “Whites have got to repent. Blacks have got to forgive.”
The next day at Sunday services, while Garlow was leading a prayer for racial reconciliation, his wife Rosemary began sobbing. She found herself kneeling before van Hook, asking forgiveness. Soon he, too, was weeping.
Yes, the wound was not of her doing. But her act helps heal the wound.
A similar story came from Mike Barry, a pastor in Annapolis. Annapolis was America’s first and last slave port. It was on her dock that Kunta Kinte (of Roots fame) was sold. Pastor Barry’s ancestors were abolitionists. Still, Barry stood before Kinte descendant Bill Haley, the son of Roots author Alex Haley, and asked forgiveness. Jim and Rosemary Garlow with Dr. Lawrence Van Hook
“We know there’s a way out of the woods,” said Craige DeRoche of Prison Fellowship, “But it starts in our own heart.”
Practical Solutions
Charlottesville was heavy on the minds of the gathered leaders. Jackson recounted how he’d gone to white church leaders in Charlottesville after learning the white supremacists were coming to town. He said they must join with minority church leaders to “raise the flag,” in advance of the event. They did not listen. “They did not invest their money and time to position themselves.” “People sitting on the sideline and doing nothing. That is the sin of the white church and even the black church.” Jackson said “It’s time to stop the madness!”
Jackson unveiled a three-point plan for action now.
Encourage faith leaders and individuals to participate in a 40-day fast to pray for the cessation of racially-motivated violence, and the creation of jobs in economically distressed urban and rural areas. The 40 Days of Fasting from 6am – 6pm begins today.
Sign and support the Justice Declaration of Prison Fellowship to focus on restoring the opportunities of returning citizens who have served their time in jails and prison.
Initiate local Prayer and Reconciliation Rallies in the nation’s top 20 cities based on the Reconciled Church Model.
Healing can start with the simplest of steps. One leader called attention to an initiative by Sen. James Langston and Sen. Tim Scott called “Solution Sundays.” It’s pretty simple: Come Sunday, invite someone from a different race over to your home for a meal. Mike Hayes’ Covenant Church in Dallas-Forth Worth is so well-known for its racial harmony that he has been asked to join the President’s faith advisory board particularly to deal with this issue. He stresses the importance of one-on-one relationships. But he also looks upward. “I don’t think anything really changes though until you have a personal encounter with the grace of God that breaks your heart for ever.”
Frank Amedia, co-founder of Touch Heaven Ministries in Canfield, Ohio, says he’s often told by white ministers that getting involved in racial issues is a no-win situation. He vehemently disagrees.
“It’s not an option to do nothing,” said Amedia. “If we do nothing, it’s not that nothing will happen. The consequences will compound, and we will continue to pass the sins of the fathers to the next generation.”
Rev. Charles Huang, founder of Roots & Branches International Ministries, picked up the theme with an old Chinese proverb. “One generations plants the tree, the next generations enjoy the shade.”
Alveda King was more blunt. She quoted her late, great uncle Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.: “We must learn to live as brothers, or perish as fools.” https://stream.org/healing-the-racial-divide/
As racial tensions simmer, questions remain. Have we paid off that note? Have we embraced or do we reject Dr. King’s dream? And where is the church in healing our divide?
Two events Monday pointed to some answers. Much attention went to the One Thousand Ministers March for Justice, organized by Al Sharpton. The Washington Post headline sums that event up: “Religious leaders gather in Washington to show unified moral opposition to Trump.” (So much for our struggles not being “against enemies of blood and flesh.” Ephesians 6:12)
However, earlier in the morning, there was another event. A racially-mixed panel of religious leaders held a press conference at the National Press Club on “Healing the Racial Divide.” Their message didn’t focus on one man in the White House. It centered on setting into action those in God’s House, doing our part in our own house, looking into our own hearts. The godly men and women gathered called for 40 days of fasting and prayer, starting today.
Healing the Racial Divide
The “Healing the Racial Divide” initiative is an outgrowth of The Reconciled Church movement founded by Rev. Harry Jackson, Bishop T.D. Jakes and Stream publisher James Robison. The gathered leaders Monday were white, black, Hispanic, Asian and Native American.
As MLK’s niece, pro-life civil rights leader Dr. Alveda King, kept pointing out, there is only one race — the human race — and only one blood. Yet as Jackson said, “Racism is America’s original sin.” And we must repent of our sin.
Jackson said that throughout the history of the Church, Christians have done too little to overcome it. He noted the “courageous efforts” of Christian Abolitionists, civil rights leaders and social activists, but said “the American Church has never reached the critical level of engagement and unified action to end the influence and reign of terror of racism in our nation.”
However, said Jackson, if we do repent, “God can heal our land.”
“Whites Have Got to Repent. Blacks Have Got to Forgive”
This theme of repentance kept arising throughout the morning. Dr. Jim Garlow, senior pastor at Skyline Church in San Diego, told the powerful story of meeting this past weekend with an African-American pastor, Dr. Lawrence van Hook. Dr. Garlow was hoping that his friend would look over a section pertaining to racism from an upcoming book he’s writing. Garlow got far more. For a full hour and 45 minutes, Dr. van Hook instead unleashed a “torrent of pain.” Garlow says he got a “crash course on the depths of the wounding.”
At the end, Dr. van Hook hung his head. “Whites have got to repent. Blacks have got to forgive.”
The next day at Sunday services, while Garlow was leading a prayer for racial reconciliation, his wife Rosemary began sobbing. She found herself kneeling before van Hook, asking forgiveness. Soon he, too, was weeping.
Yes, the wound was not of her doing. But her act helps heal the wound.
A similar story came from Mike Barry, a pastor in Annapolis. Annapolis was America’s first and last slave port. It was on her dock that Kunta Kinte (of Roots fame) was sold. Pastor Barry’s ancestors were abolitionists. Still, Barry stood before Kinte descendant Bill Haley, the son of Roots author Alex Haley, and asked forgiveness. Jim and Rosemary Garlow with Dr. Lawrence Van Hook
“We know there’s a way out of the woods,” said Craige DeRoche of Prison Fellowship, “But it starts in our own heart.”
Practical Solutions
Charlottesville was heavy on the minds of the gathered leaders. Jackson recounted how he’d gone to white church leaders in Charlottesville after learning the white supremacists were coming to town. He said they must join with minority church leaders to “raise the flag,” in advance of the event. They did not listen. “They did not invest their money and time to position themselves.” “People sitting on the sideline and doing nothing. That is the sin of the white church and even the black church.” Jackson said “It’s time to stop the madness!”
Jackson unveiled a three-point plan for action now.
Encourage faith leaders and individuals to participate in a 40-day fast to pray for the cessation of racially-motivated violence, and the creation of jobs in economically distressed urban and rural areas. The 40 Days of Fasting from 6am – 6pm begins today.
Sign and support the Justice Declaration of Prison Fellowship to focus on restoring the opportunities of returning citizens who have served their time in jails and prison.
Initiate local Prayer and Reconciliation Rallies in the nation’s top 20 cities based on the Reconciled Church Model.
Healing can start with the simplest of steps. One leader called attention to an initiative by Sen. James Langston and Sen. Tim Scott called “Solution Sundays.” It’s pretty simple: Come Sunday, invite someone from a different race over to your home for a meal. Mike Hayes’ Covenant Church in Dallas-Forth Worth is so well-known for its racial harmony that he has been asked to join the President’s faith advisory board particularly to deal with this issue. He stresses the importance of one-on-one relationships. But he also looks upward. “I don’t think anything really changes though until you have a personal encounter with the grace of God that breaks your heart for ever.”
Frank Amedia, co-founder of Touch Heaven Ministries in Canfield, Ohio, says he’s often told by white ministers that getting involved in racial issues is a no-win situation. He vehemently disagrees.
“It’s not an option to do nothing,” said Amedia. “If we do nothing, it’s not that nothing will happen. The consequences will compound, and we will continue to pass the sins of the fathers to the next generation.”
Rev. Charles Huang, founder of Roots & Branches International Ministries, picked up the theme with an old Chinese proverb. “One generations plants the tree, the next generations enjoy the shade.”
Alveda King was more blunt. She quoted her late, great uncle Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.: “We must learn to live as brothers, or perish as fools.” https://stream.org/healing-the-racial-divide/
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“Whites Have Got to Repent. Blacks Have Got to Forgive”
Those two steps have a chronological order. The second cannot begin until the first is well under way.
... and White repentance is kinda rare these days...
Ending Racism starts art the top. I dont see it getting any better under trump.
What is interesting to me on NT is that most of our members are not minorities and see things from a non minority viewpoint.
You can feel empathy and understand on an intellectual level and this is fully appreciated, but you can't fully understand the havoc that racism has wreaked on minority people or the feelings that we have to deal with.
If you really want to have a discussion on race leave the opinion pieces out of it and deal with your feeling, not what some group/religion/political party have to say about it. IMO, each of these group have an agenda when it comes to race/racism/bigotry.
Just a reminder that blacks are not the only minority in the U.S.
What is interesting to me on NT is that most of our members are not minorities and see things from a non minority viewpoint.
BULLSEYE! This is true on every discussion board or forum I've ever been on.
It all depends on where you are. When a white guy enters the city of Detroit he becomes the minority and if he spends enough time there he will indeed experience racism.
Honest people know we are decades away from a "post racial" society. This is mainly due to persistent white racism.
In the internet age where it is fairly simple to try and "equate" opposite viewpoints (and facts) we see the white grievance crowd banging away at their propaganda points.
Mr. Russell....do you honestly think that there is no racism when the white person is the minority in a "minority" setting? It works both ways. And, do you honestly believe that in a minority setting that the token whites are treated with goodwill?
I won't bore you with my own experiences. However, we are told to get over it because there is no such thing as a minority being racist as they, supposedly, are the only ones who have faced it.
You have made it pretty clear over the weeks and months what your thoughts are about race. Frankly, they are your problem.
That's right as it is the problem of minorities who continuously claim their rights to be the only ones who face racism. Deal with it just like I had to do when working on the 3rd floor (Oncology) in our local hospital.
However, we are told to get over it because there is no such thing as a minority being racist as they, supposedly, are the only ones who have faced it.
It's the nursing of a grudge and propagation of that lie that gives too many white people license to say: I'm not going to even try. And for every one of them there's probably a minority thinking the same thing. But, whites still (for the time being) have enough political power to either keep the status quo of distrust and discord alive or put an end to it. So far it seems to be the former not the latter.
You know what? That's fine and good. But, I left my job in the hospital because my superiors would not listen. After I left, I had a meeting with the VP of Human Resources. Guess what? There was not one record of my letters of concern. I disappeared off the radar.
There are mean people In this world and they do not come by color!
Honest people know we are decades away from a "post racial" society. This is mainly due to persistent white racism.
Yes.
We see it here on NT every day: members who proudly defend racism and fascism. They aren't skulking. They aren't hiding.
They are shouting their solidarity with the neo-Nazis and the KKK. Here on NT.
I think it is very hard to conclude, over the internet, that "so and so" is a racist. It doesn't mean they aren't, but rather that most people on these forums are intelligent enough to couch their thoughts in a way that leaves at least ambiguity.
I don't have the same qualms about generalizing. Without a doubt there are tens of millions of white Americans who fit the description of "racist".
I have not read any post where a member has supported the KKK or the neo Nazis.
Interesting article. Yes, there are quite obviously a lot of people in America, black and white, who want to put an end to racism. Good! It needs to end. It's long past time for it to end. Problem is, I read the entire article, twice, and there was obviously something missing.
And when I read this passage again: I knew what it was.
Two events Monday pointed to some answers. Much attention went to the One Thousand Ministers March for Justice, organized by Al Sharpton. The Washington Post headline sums that event up: “Religious leaders gather in Washington to show unified moral opposition to Trump.” (So much for our struggles not being “against enemies of blood and flesh.” Ephesians 6:12)
What's missing? In that passage from the article, and in the whole article itself.
When I think of what I have witnessed over the past year, culminating in Charlottesville, I remember on the campaign trail a candidate saying over and over, "Where's my black? Where's my black? Oh! There he is! There's my black."
And that guy was elected to be the 45th POTUS. And on his first day in office he started he new campaign for reelection, and in the group of people who sit behind him at his new campaign speeches, in different states and cities, I often see one guy holding up a sign that says something like "Blacks for Trump!" It's usually the same guy. In fact, when I have seen him it is always the same guy. And it's always only one guy.
What does that tell you about the elected leader of this country?
What was missing from the passage and the article above?
Who was missing from that march?
Think about it
That one black guy is a celebrity with Pres. Trump's entourage. He has been with him since the beginning. He, also. has visited the WH.
And he's weirder than hell. Here's one of his websites:
2Thess.2:1-11
Boss at Mike Pence Presidential Debate 2016
ISIS, East Indian & Cherokee's Plot to Kill the White & Black Women
of America! yes I said CHEROKEE! Click button to read whole Truth with proo f---
39.
CLICK HERE TO READ MORE
White & Red Cherokee Indians are Hidden Babylonians (Democrats). The
reason GOD chose TRUMP to be President is to Deliver the White & Black
Man (Hebrews) from the Babylonians (Arabs, East Indians, White Slav
Cherokees/ Democrats & infiltraitors of the Republicans like the White
Cherokess Sen. McCain & Flake)! Who Block good Policy that free White
Gentiles & Black People from these unjust Rulers (Judges, Congressmen
& Senators) who Fine Regulate, Foreclose, & over Tax us into Poverty!
President Trump is that Great Gentile King CYRUS, Isa.45:1-6! In latter
days the Gentiles will realize they inherited the Lie that they were the
Slave Traders, the KKK & the Racists, Jer.16:19.
Good link!
It reminded me of this old axiom: Brids of a feather, flock together.
No child is born with hate or racism in their hearts or minds. These things are taught to them, and a long as there are those who will continue to teach such things to the children there will no end to the hate and racism in our country or any other. While some children may learn to put the hate and racism behind them, many will continue to carry that hate and racism with them in their lifetime, and pass it on to their own children.
If there truly is hope for hate and racism to end, we, as a people, must find a way to end the hate and racism in the children who have been so ingrained to those thoughts so that it does not continue to get passed on to each new generation. It is a difficult task, but, IMHO, it is the only real hope to put an end to the endless racial divide among the people.
Just my own personal opinion as someone who has faced hate and racism because of my Native American heritage all my life.
Great comment Raven. It reminds me of this song:
Thank you, Perrie. I love that song, and the movie, it's one of my favorites. Thank you for posting it. I enjoyed hearing it again. (smile)
A beautiful song and wonderful thoughts. It reminded me of this...
Oh gosh,, it's been years since i have heard this song. I really loved that movie.
What song is everyone talking about?
Great Song, and it definitely fits.
Reminds me of this one also.....
Back to Before.....
Ragtime - 1998
Bob,
You are coming dangerously close to a CoC violation. Please stop referring to any members on NT and make your point some other way.
Sorry to disagree Perrie, but I think Bob is beyond close to a violation - he just called members racist. They are going to do that directly as well as subtly. It is all they did on Newsvine - every day. I see it here constantly. If you don't stop it - it will poison any chance at a real conversation.
The best way for anyone to dispel any suggestion that they are racist is to be non-racist.
While no one should be called racist on an internet forum without evidence, neither should people be able to make bigoted comments and expect clear sailing.
Sorry to disagree Perrie, but I think Bob is beyond close to a violation - he just called members racist.
Hi Vic,
Who did he actually call a racist? No one. He didn't even allude to a specific comment that would pin it to a member, which would have been skirting the CoC. As long as a comment isn't made to or directed at a specific member, it is permissible. My qualm with Bob's comment is was that it was directed to a subsection of NT, which only brings about possible finger pointing. And I agree that it does ruin the tone of an article, which is why the warning was given. And at least here, I am paying attention, which is a lot different from NV.
While we're at it, why not throw 'commie' and 'communist' into the disallowed terms list? I know I was told not long ago that I am a communist. If "racist" is not allowed neither should "commie" be.
The problem for me sweets, is this name calling finger pointing was discussed at length in meta and the group decided that it wouldn't be tolerated anymore.
I'm getting tired of being called a Nazi, white supremacist and fascist just because I don't tow the liberal political line. Recently it has become almost automatic with the new influx and some of the old time regulars who know this are resuming the practice also. Soon some from our side are going to resume also.
This is what we are seeing and it is really getting to us.
Some on our side are saying to ignore it, but when they automatically start out calling you a fascist just because you have a different point of view, or you post an article they don't like, it gets pointless. You either go away and are permanently shut up, (which is what they want) or you fight back.
Too many of us have put in too much time building this fora to just slink away with our tails between our legs cause they have a dispensation.
Right now is a deadlock and the pressure is building, you know as well as I do that that will last only for so long....
They do not understand, we do.....
We are biting our tongues and zipping our lips at this point, I don't know how long that will last.
I certainly hope you are paying attention, you usually do, you also have those of us that pay attention for you.
I'm hoping your getting the messages...
Oh please.
Now on this thread we will see the double back flip.
If you mention "racism" like Bob did, you will have the selective outrage of the perpetually beleaguered turned back on you. Only in America is it better to be a bigot where you can then claim you are being persecuted by political correctness than to be the victims of the bigotry.
I personally see no reason for name calling of any kind. It is totally Kindergarten childishness, and the members here are supposed to be adults. Name calling adds nothing of value to the discussion or debate, and only works to crate a hostile and divisive environment, which is NOT what NT is about. If those who can't rise above the childish frame of mind here in the adult community they should find a forum that better suits their childish frame of mind until they can figure out how to conduct adult conversations.
I am sick of the endless endeavors of some who are here only to enjoy seeing how much Hell they can raise and bully other members get away with it.
A part of the CoC states," You can not refer to a member as a bigot, racist or anti-semite, liar or name call and make other personal insults." Notice the part that says " name call ". That includes all name calling of any kind.
For those who have not yet read the Code of Conduct for NT, you can find it here and I strongly suggest that you read it.
This forum is not Newsvine, nor is there any interest by the members here on NT in making it like Newsvine. For those who want to engage in unmoderated and ugly and childish conversations you are welcome to do so in the Heated Discussions group here on NT, where you can create all the hate and disharmony you like there.
Just my personal thoughts on the subject. No need to expect further replies from me on this.
This forum is not Newsvine, nor is there any interest by the members here on NT in making it like Newsvine.
No offense, but that is presumptuous. You don't speak for everyone here. Some of us have been very vocal about the over-moderation that is sterilizing this site to the point of being a destination for mindless gladhanding.
Hal...not to offend, but, I have been a member on NT for several years now and I do think I speak for the majority of members here on NT. There are a few here who seem to prefer to be able to say anything they please to others no matter how insulting, demeaning, derogatory or aggressive it may be and not be called accountable for it.
Many or most of NT members came from NV to get away from that kind of ugliness,including myself, preferring instead to have a place where we can express and exchange our different views on topics in a venue of comity and respect.
Also, if anyone prefers to be able to say whatever they wish in a hostile venue without moderation then there is the Heated Discussions group where there is no moderation. However, those who do not wish to engage in that kind of discussion should not be expected to have to tolerate it in the open forum.
I know that not everyone likes moderation, but, if they don't like the moderation provided here on NT or the feel hampered by the rules of the CoC, they should look for a forum that is better suited to their own type of 'discussion' instead of trying to turn NT into a clone of NV for their own personal pleasure.
Perrie has done a great job in trying to maintain that kind of community for those who wish to engage in civil and constructive discussions in a fair and objective manner, in spite of those who continue to complain about it and work against it. Also, as you will know, the CoC is a product of the entire community who vote on which rules are in it, and is approved by majority member votes, not just by Perrie alone,
I know you and some others will not be happy with what I have said here, but, I don't feel I am alone in my thinking. However, it does not mean I do not respect your or your rights to your own thoughts and opinions.
-
Raven-Wing, I like what you say. I agree with you. Let me see if I can respond to you without writing a book. (If some of this doesn't make sense, just ask me to explain.)
There's no need to name-call, but sometime even those of us who don't normally do that can feel we've been backed into a corner, so we lash out. With some self-discipline and good advice, I think I know how to deal with such situations now.
And reading the CoC helps. It really does. I don't know how many times I have read it so far, but I'm sure I will read it again and again. One read through is not enough. People should re-read the CoC often.
About the Heated Debate forum: I have heard about it and read about it, but I still don't get it. It would seem to me the ones who like to name call would gravitate to that forum. But those of us who don't like to be called names would stay out of it. Thus, the targets of the name callers would not be in H-D to be called names. Those name-callers would essentially be in self-imposed isolation. Which is not a bad thing, until they come out into the open forums and act as if they were in H-D. (Does that make sense?)
What might be interesting is if the Moderators had the ability to transport the CoC violators and their comments into H-D, and take them out of the mainstream. Kind of like a Twilight Zone transport from one state to another. It might help if they could do something like that. Almost like giving a CoC violator a Time-Out.
But, those are my thoughts. I like yours better actually.
"It would seem to me the ones who like to name call would gravitate to that forum. But those of us who don't like to be called names would stay out of it."
If you are capable of maintaining the self-control expected of a mature intelligent person, one who would not normally name-call but would if it were permitted in some circumstances, you can always invite a name-caller to join you in the Heeated Discussions group and let your invective flow there - sort of like inviting someone to step out into the alley to let your fists be your words.
If you are capable of maintaining the self-control expected of a mature intelligent person
And that's where I have to stop you and point out that a "mature intelligent person" refrains from calling anyone else a name, because name-calling is a childish thing to do. So, why, if I don't like to be called names and don't intend to call others names, would I ever be interested in going into the Heated Discussion/Debate area?
The answer is, a "mature intelligent person" would never be caught dead in such a place. That area seems to be essentially a playground for name-calling children.
No thanks. It's not for me.
p.s. Fist fighting in a alley is just as immature and childish, and I never have done such a thing. Not interested in it.
I'm getting tired of being called a Nazi, white supremacist and fascist just because I don't tow the liberal political line. Recently it has become almost automatic with the new influx and some of the old time regulars who know this are resuming the practice also. Soon some from our side are going to resume also.
And I hear from the other side of the fence that I don't do enough from being called snowflakes, socialist, commies, pinkos. They too are worried about the influx.
The real issue is that people have no tolerance for differing POV's. They would rather name call then listen to one another. Even an independent like me, needs to be labeled. I am either a right leaning liberal or left leaning conservative depending on who you are asking.
So from my POV the issue is we have become so polarized over politics that we have forgotten that we bleed the same color.
You know where I come from and how I stand sweets. I don't disagree with a lot of what your saying. Another problem is we have a bunch of people who were someone on NV and coming here they are just "Newbies" all over again. I lot of the pulse is standing up and "Declaring" themselves. Unfortunately to a lot of people they do not know and who don't know them.
Instant friction. For instance, a hypothetical, suppose someone joins and posts some outlandish response to an article, a regular comes into the conversation and starts the process of figuring out what this person is trying to represent and the newbie just labels the response as "Bullshit" and claims that they are right, any further response gets the same response of "Bullshit" and declaration of victory like they have accomplished something. in my view they did actually accomplish something.
Revealed themselves as not capable of having a conversation about anything. Then they think it is wise to insult you.
Hypothetical yes. but I'm sure that you realize how that will infuriate the people that have been here a while. and when that is multiplied by a dozen or more...
WE got a problem.
I, from experience, understand your position. It's one your kinda forced to take. but sooner or later you know just like I do that said hypothetical will be real, and those persons will have to be educated eventually. And many won't like it.
Moving here is just like the jump from Junior High to actual High School, or better yet high school to major college.
They were the big dogs at the former, but become the juveniles at the latter.
Hopefully they can handle the adjustment.
It won't be easy...
"Moving here is just like the jump from Junior High to actual High School, or better yet high school to major college."
...........................................................
Call it what you want it, censorship is still censorship.
At NV when it was unmonitored people took care of the trolls. and you said what you wanted, how you wanted to say it.
that was free speech.
Yep, and what your saying here, is reminiscent of another great rumination of free speech.....
Yelling fire in a crowded theater.
sorry I dont see it that way.
I respect the sites authority to control the conversations I also recognize this is not true free speech.
I understand the difference between what is and what you would like.
But that being said, absolute free speech doesn't exist anywhere in the world my friend.
In real life it would likely get you killed.
If it has such a high probably of bad outcome in real life, why is it ok on the internet?
My qualm with Bob's comment is was that it was directed to a subsection of NT...
I said that there are members who defend fascists. If everyone was sure that that statement was nonsense... everyone would laugh.
Nobody is laughing.
Everyone is taking my statement very seriously because everyone knows it is true. The best way to make it false is not to chase anyone away... but for those who defend fascists to stop doing it.
Who did he actually call a racist?
He made the implication that it is those who disagree with him! Here is how its done:
"We see it here on NT every day: members who proudly defend racism and fascism."
That is no different than calling the supporters of the President "deplorables"
No different than calling poor blue collar workers "clingers"
No different than the many times race has been brought in conversations that had nothing to do with race.
I take it then that you agree with the comment that members have proudly (IN BOLD) defended racism and facism?
If you do please show us all where!
Have you read this site Vic? Or most discussion sites? Like I said, I was called a communist by another member the other day. You probably won't get things sanitized to the extent you desire.
I learned long ago if you are going into a chatroom put on your big boy pants or dont go in. If you want to play with children go to a playground. Most adult chat rooms are not for sissies.
I always figured If you aren't willing to stand up for yourself or your ideas then just sit quietly and watch those of us who are.
That's how I feel too. I could not care less if some commie calls me a nazi. It's just their opinion and doesn't make me feel like a victim.
I always figured If you aren't willing to stand up for yourself or your ideas then just sit quietly and watch those of us who are
You mean quietly watch the ones who can get away with attacking the person rather than the argument. Let's not fool anyone - the same people are doing it over & over
No, I mean if you are afraid of confrontation stay out of the discussions. If I meant what you said, I'd have said it.
That's how I feel too. I could not care less if some commie calls me a nazi. It's just their opinion and doesn't make me feel like a victim.
That's fine. Your'e not a Nazi but your'e ok with them calling you one. So, what happens when someone calls them leftist scum?
Most of the time I silently nod in agreement.
No, I mean if you are afraid of confrontation stay out of the discussions.
You said what you said (peppered with insults btw) knowing that you can get away with that racist BS. If you are ok with confrontation than you must live up to what you said about sissies ets
Comment removed for skirting the CoC [ph]
lol
no skirting just saying truth. Evidently not how its allowed to say it here though.
You can speak all the truth you want, I do it all the time, you just are not supposed to insult people doing it.
Reasonable adults have that capability.
Are you stating that you don't?
Most of the time I silently nod in agreement.
Then you have a good chance of making it to your senior years
I now see that we are going to use first amendment principles here.
I'm all for it!
I'll be observing the conversations for a while. If I see someone calling another member a "racist" - I'll feel free to rip right into 'em.
Good night
If I see someone calling another member a "racist" - I'll feel free to rip right into 'em.
Maybe, rather than 'rip into them' just flag their comment and allow the moderator to take it from there? Just a thought.
yeah we sure wouldn't want to have to defend OURSELVES.
lol
Vic,
I am not looking for a fight here, and I don't believe that I have been given a far shake in this discussion.
First of all, if what you mean by "rip right into them" breaks the CoC, it will be treated as such. Second, we have a list of words in the CoC that are not allowed already. This was voted on by the whole community. We have an updating of the CoC and if their are some terms that you want to add to that list, bring it up then.
Finally, I said that I am a 1st amendment kind of person. That was what this site was built on. It's why it our slogan is "Speak your mind" I am not a fan of lists of forbidden words, but if that is what the community wants, we can go that route. I also said that "We are all adults. We should be held accountable for own name calling and not do it.", yet you focused on how I feel about the 1st, as if I was giving some sort of excuse to those you disagree with, instead of taking the spirit of the post that I made as the RA and then gave me an abrupt, Good Night, as if I tried to pull a fast one on you, instead of taking my comment as a whole. This is your choice, of course.
I realize you are new here and you don't know me, so I am not taking your reaction personally. But I am also aware that I will never please all of the people even most of the time, and I have learned to accept that, too.
Have a good evening.
"If I see someone calling another member a "racist" - I'll feel free to rip right into 'em."
Good for you, dont be surprised though if they rip back. It's called verbal sparing and the one with the weakest position loses. As long as you can hold your own and are right in your opinion. If not, well may be ya learn something.
I know I've been on both sides of that fence.
I wouldn't worry about it too much on here though, they shut ya down before it can get too heated here.
I wouldn't worry about it too much on here though, they shut ya down before it can get too heated here.
Affirmative on that. And that goes for both sides of the political fence.
Respectfully I call that limited speech, But your site, your prerogative.
You want unlimited speech? Join the "Heated Discussions" group. It's there just for that reason, but it's necessary to be a mature adullt elsewhere on NT, or it will turn into a cesspool and most of the members would prefer that it didn't.
You will find however, that new members will have to be members for a period of time before they are accepted to the Heated Discussions group.
"You want unlimited speech? Join the "Heated Discussions" group."
Yes Thank you.
Where would I find that group ?
Is it on here ?
If it was the one on newsvine, I think I was blocked I was blocked from a few there. Some people don't want reality shoved at them. I'm old enough I dont bother sugar coating shit much anymore besides that just gives people a reason to laugh it off. Reality usually isn't funny.
You have to be a member for 3 months before you can join. Look for it under the Groups tab...
Yep I just found it but thanks.
I'll certainly try it. I get tried of being nice. I'm too passionate about too many things. LOL
and when I encounter an idiot I dont mind pointing it out. Here ... not allowed.. I conform. mostly....lol
PS: I dont mind being called names, I know namecalers have nothing else. It's usually just an indication of their worthlessness.
And I move on.
Saying exactly what I want to say and how I want to say it... priceless !!!
It's not all that it's cracked up to be. Don't believe the hype.
Respectfully I call that limited speech, But your site, your prerogative.
Steve,
You do realize how ironic your statement is? I have Vic complaining that I am not limiting speech enough and you complaining that I am too restrictive. Hence my comment:
But I am also aware that I will never please all of the people even most of the time, and I have learned to accept that, too.
That being said, this is NOT my site, per se. It belongs to the community. The community makes the rules and the mods and I enforce them. So if you have something you want changed, please bring it up during the next updating of the CoC.
Thanks Perrie, I think I'll try the group recommended. "Heated discussions" That sounds like more my unrestricted style. I do appreciate being able to come here and I am trying to conform to all the rules while here.
Thanks for your suggestion, but my intention as I stated upon first coming here is not to disrupt what you folks have had for some time now so I will withhold any suggestions to your community for now. Thank you for the explanation and advice.
I know nobody asked me, but I would like to add my 2 cents worth in here if you don't mind.
This is the way I look at it:
There are basically two reasons why someone would call me a name.
1. They don't have a logical argument to refute what I just posted, so they default to childish name-calling.
2. They are a TROLL, and they are calling me a name just to get me angry.
On option 1. if name calling is the best they can do, then that means my argument is better than their non-argument.
Or in the case of Trolls.. BFD!
Either way, as soon as the name-calling starts, that's my cue to leave and go on to something else more important and someone else more intelligent. Staying around and calling them a name back, or trying to say "No I'm Not, You are!" is like grade school playground antics. If you want to go that route then do it right and post this: "I'm Rubber and You're Glue, Everything You Say Bounces Off Me and Sticks to You. Neener! Neener! Neener!" Kind of childish, right?
So that's my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth.
(Flag it. Move on, and let the moderators deal with it.)
Welcome...I agreed with you whole post but this:
"(Flag it. Move on, and let the moderators deal with it.)"
I just walk away, trolls and idiots need a place to vent, Its better on a chatroom than out in public where people get physically hurt or killed. Let them vent I say that's what the scroll button was invented for.
That's cool. If you don't want to flag it, and just walk away, then that works. I prefer to flag it, so that hopefully the next time the violator will think twice before posting another nonsense comment. But, either way works if it keeps a flame war from starting up. Good!
I dont consider a name caller a Violator" I consider them a hurt human being that has little self worth.
Most are low self esteem folks who have little to offer anyway. Their insults are like bbs bouncing of a concret building. Once you get thru that tuff outer shell you'll find a individual in need. Many can be reasoned with and even helped with a little patience and tactfulness. IF I'm in the mood I May explore that angle other wise I walk away.
Sometimes ya need to step into the gutter to help someone climb out. other times they aren't worth it. I get to choose which way I go. I like that.
Well, what I know on this site is that if you call someone else a name, you have violated CoC Rule #1 and that makes you a violator. That's just the rule. Best not to violate it. You know?
excerpt CoC #1
You can not refer to a member as a bigot, racist or anti-semite, liar or name call and make other personal insults.
True..ON THIS SITE.
But, Not in real life, I dont live on this site. I do live in real life, like I said I dont call them violators here you folks do.
I know it is a violation of the rules, I never was one much for rules if it included limiting anyone's right to speak though. However I do respect this is a privately owned space and I conform. Mostly ! I am proud to be a "violator" if need be. Some time is the only way.
If ya cant call a spade a spade why fight for free speech ?
"If ya cant call a spade a spade why fight for free speech ? "
I have always agreed with that adage, and here to apply it to any comment made by another is no problem whatsoever, but to use that adage as an excuse to attack a member personally is simply childish and labels the perpetrator as no better than a primitive savage lacking in the ability to communicate intelligently.
For example, I have always decried the tendancy to call Islamic terrorism "workplace violence" or "mental instability" which increasing overextended PC seems to have encouraged. I always said at those times that a spade should be called a spade if such acts needed to be curtailled rather than coddled.
That s why one should chose their words carefully paying attention to the meanings of each word. That way you are using the language as it was intended. All words have meaning and some meanings can only be conveyed thru the use of those words. Skirting around using correct terminology is both time consuming and many times not near as precise or effective. In short, it sucks.
When I want to use a word I dont want anyone telling me I cant. THAt violates my feeling of my right of free speech.
period
Here I conform. Out of respect to the owners of the private site. Their right at this time trumps mine.
Okay, well I do have to admit that it is probably more effective to tell a person to "Fuck off" instead of suggesting that they go elsewhere.
That's not my idea of a great use of the english language but what ever floats a persons boat.
I normally try to treat others how they are treating others. The myself and others with respect that's usually what you get back from me. treat myself or others disrespectfully expect that's coming back from me as well. I'm adaptable and I have no problem being a person of many hats.
I take my time and think about my posts and normally only attack once I'm attacked, then stand back. By taking my time and thinking about my responses doing research as warranted I usually walk away confident I at least didn't come off looking like a fool.
Sometime like I said though ya need to call em as ya see em. Many folks take offense to that. I say too bad. Reality isn't always pretty.
How about a little comic relief on this tense seed?
TV Host Accuses Obama of Setting ‘Race Relations Back 100 Years’
August 30, 2017, 3:46 PM
An NRATV host made the wild accusation that President Barack Obama has moved race relations in America back a century.
"A century ago in America, violent race riots were on the rise, lynchings of African-Americans happened regularly , and mainstream newspapers publishes pieces calling for “separation of races” — this ugly past is a version of America an NRA TV host claims President Barack Obama revived.
The host, Bill Whittle , lamented Obama’s handling of race relations on his show Hot Mic by accusing the first African-American president of pushing race-relations back a century"
sorry, still not funny.
Sad but not comic relief status. Nice try though.
Sometimes I like to check out the picture posts for entertainment and comic relief got any good ones ?
Here's one I posted earlier.
25 is accurate.
LOL
Just how young are you ?
I was alive in the race riots of the the past, Have you ever even hear of the watts riots ? Or Rodney King from the race war riots in the early 90s ?
We are so much better off now !
You cited an article that does not have the word Obama in it.
That is a new low, even for you.
Oh, c'mon, John!
If the reporter considers the proper form for race relations to be "slavery", then it is certainly true that Obama set those relations back at least a century.
It's just a question of criteria.
A number of months ago I said that I hoped the country would split. I can honestly say my opinion has not changed. The country cannot continue under this divisive and hateful Administration. If you're not a white male then you aren't valued in this country.