Pence Walks Out of Colts Game After Players Protest
Vice President Mike Pence said that he walked out of a football game on Sunday after several 49ers players protested the national anthem by kneeling because he “will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem.”
Pence, Indiana’s former governor, attended a game between the Indianapolis Colts and the San Francisco 49ers along with his wife, second lady Karen Pence. The vice president said they showed up to honor former quarterback Peyton Manning at his retirement ceremony while his No. 18 jersey was being retired. But when several 49ers took the knee while the national anthem was being played before the game, the Pences revealed that they’d had quite enough.
Pence's son, Michael, is a Marine, and the vice president said he believed that kneeling during the national anthem "disrespects our soldiers."
"I left today's Colts game because President Trump and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem," Pence said in a statement. "At a time when so many Americans are inspiring our nation with their courage, resolve, and resilience, now, more than ever, we should rally around our Flag and everything that unites us."
"While everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I don't think it's too much to ask NFL players to respect the Flag and our National Anthem," Pence added. "I stand with President Trump, I stand with our soldiers, and I will always stand for our Flag and our National Anthem."
Former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who is now unsigned by any National Football League team, initiated the national anthem protest during the 2016 season when he chose to bring attention to racial injustice and police shootings of black men by kneeling. Although several other players followed in Kaepernick's footsteps by kneeling during the national anthem, that form of protesting didn't garner much support from NFL players and officials until President Donald Trump reignited the issue.
During a rally in Alabama on September 22, Trump touched on the issue, saying, "When people like yourselves turn on television and you see those people taking the knee when they are playing our great national anthem — the only thing you could do better is if you see it, even if it's one player, leave the stadium."
"Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a b**ch off the field right now. He is fired,'" Trump added.
In retaliation against a president many of them have publicly disowned, scores of NFL players joined in the national anthem protests by kneeling in subsequent games, while others chose to protest by standing with their arms locked or refusing to come out on the field at all while the anthem was played.
Although many liberals lauded the NFL players for defying Trump and politicizing the national anthem, the sport's loyal fan base hasn't offered such resounding levels of support, as ratings plummeted. A recent Winston Group poll found that the NFL's overall favorability fell from 57 percent to 44 percent in the span of one month as the protests continued with renewed force. In addition, football suffered the highest unfavorable rating of any major sport, polled at 40 percent.
In addition, a recent poll released by the Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research found that approximately six in 10 Americans agree "that refusing to stand for the anthem is disrespectful to the military" and that such a form of protesting is "disrespectful to the country's values and the American flag.
Trump himself took to Twitter to praise his vice president for walking out of the game, saying, "I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country. I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen."
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In addition, a recent poll released by the Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research found that approximately six in 10 Americans agree "that refusing to stand for the anthem is disrespectful to the military" and that such a form of protesting is "disrespectful to the country's values and the American flag.
We kind of knew that.
Good for Pence, even the VP has the right of self expression.
Pence's choice to "leave" is purely political, nothing to do with respect. If respect and love of country were the issue, wouldn't he have exercised his free-speech right to stand up for the Gold Star Kahn family or the belittlement of McCain?
Tell us how ya really feel!
You might think that but at least he draws the line against people who engage in Mike Brown worshipping.
Or the four dead at Benghazi?
Brown is the reason this whole knee taking nonsense started. I notice the left doesn't mention him anymore since the lie about hands up was exposed.
And those "pigs" risk their lives to stop maniacs like the Vegas shooter all the way down to petty thugs like Brown.
I thought we were talking about disrespecting heroes.
...can you supply the cypher?
"What does this have to do with Michael Brown who was unarmed and shot dead by a pig?"
You mean the thug who was justifiably shot by a brave police officer when he attacked the cop after a strong arm burglary? That thug?
I'm talking about Pence's staged outrage and felt like I supplied two perfect examples to support my opinion.
You mean those Muslim Americans that spoke to their ideals at the Democrat National Convention.....
You mean the guy that single handedly shot down any chance to repeal the largest socialist piece of legislation this nation had ever had forced down their throats... An establishment republican who would like to see Trump gone just as much as the democrats would, A classic republican in name only?
That John McCain?
Those heartfelt political statements are better than what Pence did....
Ok, if you say so....
She means the human being dying of brain cancer who is able to empathize with other human beings and their families who might not have health insurance as he does.
She means that John McCain.
And she means the Gold Star mother and father whose Muslim-American son died in combat saving his fellow-American soldiers.
That's who she means.
"shot dead by a pig?"
What pig? Michael Brown was shot when he refused to cooperate and threatened the life and safety of a police officer. It was shown in three separate autopsies that his hands were not up, and he was NOT shot in the back or when he was on the ground. Michael Brown was a thug who decided wrongly that bevause of his size and his race he was immune from the consequences of his actions. He was proven wrong.
In your opinion ... which I tend to agree with. Choosing to attend a 49'rs game was a pretty strong tell ... his actions are being cheer'd by some and boo'd by others.
The Kahn family chose to expose/politicize their loss of a child at a major political event! Mr. Kahn was pointed and deliberate, in what is claimed to be his words, directed at the now president. Why would VP Pence take a public stance on a tit for tat between Mr Kahn and Trump. Mr Kahn made a speech / political statement using the loss of his son to go after a presidential candidate ... Trump and his extreme lack of judgement/knowledge/experience return fired, a pathetic display of the self control that he lacks as well.
Just my opinion of the events the I saw unfold - What should Pence have said
Staged stunt on our dime! If he was serious he would have paid for it himself.
Ah! Was caught on video strong arming a store owner during a theft. While that may not have been a burglary it was a robbery
And what world do you live on? They found his blood inside the partol car where he attacked Officer Wilson and attempted to get his weapon.
Facts would only interfere with her antipolice bigotry.
Just because you choose to be ignorant of the facts that were well published at the time, it is not my job to bring you up to speed now. Ill bet you still think Brown was shot in the back too arent you.
FYI:
What is the matter, the person that reads these things to you cant figure out how to use google?
Good comment. Mrs. Khan claimed that she was too grief-stricken to speak at the DNC Convention, but seemed to be able to write an op ed piece and do interviews shortly after the convention. I'm glad she recuperated so quickly.
She lost her Muslim-American son who died saving the lives of his fellow American soldiers … after which … she had to listen to the hateful anti-Muslim pandering of Donald Trump, many of whom voted for him, likely because he hates the same people they hate!
Her son died in an act of heroism performed as a Muslim-American soldier saving other American soldiers!
If this information's significance eludes some people …
Shame!
Why do you insist on labeling him a "Muslim-American"? Why do you hyphenate and therefore split his allegiance? He was an AMERICAN citizen who died in service to the USA and not a Muslim country. Period.
It's more realistic to view the "oppressed" or "praying" multi-millionaires in the NFL who have taken a knee as being the ones who have performed staged stunts on the dimes of their middle class fans since 2016. Think about it.
Because Trump disparaged them as Muslims as he did when trying to ban all Muslims from coming to America.
The significance of using the term "Muslim-America" in this instance, is to underscore the reality of Americans who are also Muslims, who serve as "Americans" and should not be disparaged because they are simultaneously Muslims.
The "period" does not seem to fit Trump's idea of "American" and thus must be a reminder of his selective ethnocentrism.
Donald Trump Criticizes Muslim Family of Slain U.S. Soldier, Drawing Ire
By MAGGIE HABERMAN and RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr. JULY 30, 2016
Mr. Trump’s comments, in an interview with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News … drew quick and widespread condemnation and amplified calls for Republican leaders to distance themselves from their presidential nominee.
With his implication that the soldier’s mother had not spoken because of female subservience expected in some traditional strains of Islam, his comments also inflamed his hostilities with American Muslims.
Yes, those are the two of which I write. The Kahn family (you referenced as "those Muslim Amercans") who buried a son wearing the uniform of this nation and a Veteran who did the same...just two of the hundred's of thousands of individuals who bought and paid for the freedom and liberty we enjoy.
The players work for the NFL, the NFL is a business who purpose is to make money. When/if behaviors impact their profits, they will undoubtedly change their business model.
You derailed to something Trump said and didn't answer my specific question, but that's OK. Your comments indicate that you hate President Trump, and I respect your right to feel that way.
Why? Identity politics of course.
You asked a question which I answered directly … and now, you are the one both derailing and accusing me of something while simultaneously "respecting my right" to feel how I feel.
I don't appreciate being treated in that manner.
You asked for it, here you are youtube.com/watch?v=n2z5-H8NSGA
And your point is? If you are banking on the word homocide all it means is that that death was at the hands of another but it does not mean that the death was not justified.
Whatever that is, it doesn't help your case. Brown was killed while attacking the officer. Feel free to read all the independent eyewitness testimony.
Yes or no, do you think the shooting of Brown was justified?
Stop the equivocation and word games and acting as if I can't express myself articulately enough for you.
You don't know what you're talking about … if you care to engage in honest debate, let's do it. But don't play the incredulity and feigned confusion thing with me.
hom·i·cide
noun
the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.
Yes I'm well aware of their individual situations., it's the fact that in the case of the dead soldier son, they allowed his death to be used politically that I object to. once they did that, it's fair political game, and that you know Mac.
AS far as McCain? everything he does now if based upon his condition is using his office for his own gain and he no longer represents the people that put him there.....
There is nothing McCain can do that isn't political and you know that also...
The defense rings hollow....
And when you want to talk about the Kahn's hurtful memories of their son, remember, I have a nephew who died in Afghanistan, Bronze Star and purple heart recipient, there wasn't enough left of him to put in a coffin. He has a city park named after him.... My sister wouldn't dare use his sacrifice that way. (or allow anyone else to)
I understand the families pain, but using that to further a political agenda and then sign a book deal....
I'm happy for them that their son's death in the service will do them some good....
I respect the hell out of their son's sacrifice, I despise what they did with it for their own gain, and the democrats did with it to further their political ends.....
Does that make my position clear.....
While you didn't provide a link, I assume that is picture of a medical examiners report.
Homicide in the context of a medical examination simply means that intentional actions led to the death of another. No one questioned that the Officer killed him. Its simply one of five categories they use to classify deaths.
The finding of homicide by an examiner doesn't mean there was a crime committed. IT'S NOT A LEGAL JUDGMENT AND CARRIES NO TAINT OF WRONGDOING BY ANYONE.
I respect the hell out of their son's sacrifice, I despise what they did with it for their own gain, and the democrats did with it to further their political ends.....
Does that make my position clear.....
Sorry, but I disagree.
By disparaging all Muslims … ALL … Trump intentionally, for HIS POLITICAL REASONS, fails to make the distinction between criminals who have hijacked a religion, and members of that same religion who have given their lives for America!
As for McCain, regardless of any underlying political motivations, as a dying man, he voted against a bill that could have taken health insurance from other dying Americans … AND THAT, FOR POLITICAL REASONS.
I am not confused. The word homocide just means that death was caused by another. It does not mean that someone was killed illegally. Killing some one in self defense is a homocide but it is not illegal. There are other more comprehensive definitions of homicide on Google. Many from dictionaries that are geared more to legal terms. Look some of those op
You mean the fact that the police officer who shot MB knew NOTHING about the alleged 'strong armed robbery'? You mean that fact right?
Mike Brown Federal Autopsy Released, Still Ruled a Homicide
St. Louis County prosecutor Bob McCulloch released the findings of a federal autopsy report on Michael Brown Monday, UPI reports.
The classifications are natural, accident, suicide, homicide , undetermined, and pending. Only medical examiners and coroners may use all of the manners of death. ... The manner of death is determined by the medical examiner. Natural Deaths. Natural is defined as death caused solely by disease or natural process.
Pence's only 'self expression' is taking a knee for 45. Yesum, I be goin' to Indiana to make your point massa, I be goin' right now'...
E.A Hence words like Homosexual and Homophobe are misrepresentation of the REAL meaning of the words, twisted the same as the word gay!
I appreciate you amplifying what has already been explained. But again, thanks for proving that a coroner's finding of "homicide" has no legal implications for the officer.
Of course it was a homicide, no one disputes that. Just like the death of the Pulse Nightclub shooter at the hands of police was ruled a homicide as well. Do you think the finding of homicide means the shooting of the Pulse nightclub shooter was somehow wrong? .
Nah. The fact that the thug violently attacked a police officer. That fact.
Apologizing for bigots does not look good on you.
Yeah, he did. He won't do it again.
That is how I see it as well. He went there with the sole purpose to do what he did, and spent taxpayers money to get there and back. But, of course, this was all give the thumbs up by the President.
It was so obvious that Pence's intent and purpose was for being there that it boggles my mind that so few people can see it for what it was.
A coroner has several choices to designate for cause of death, homicide being one.
I don't disagree that "homicide" is not always synonymous with murder by premeditated intent, but, since among the choices as cause of death, Brown's coroner report did not choose "other" as opposed to "homicide," and, given the questionable Grand Jury proceedings …
Everything the Darren Wilson grand jury got wrong: The lies, errors and mistruths that let Michael Brown’s killer off the hook
The prosecutor’s document dump was designed for transparency. It shows how transparently flawed the process was
There is a certain way of thinking that does not see things quite that way... Pharrell Williams in an interview with Charlie Rose said that Africa was in him .. America is what he was subject to. (not a direst quote) Here is that segment of the interview,
Oprah and Tom Brokaw on his Dateline 50 years special said that things had become tribal in America and Oprah said there were not enough plain Americans (not a direct quote - and I cannot provide a clip of the program for that segment)..
Here is the trailer to the special ... cannot seem to get the program link to post - gotta prove I didn't make it up lol
My position has nothing to do with T-Rump my friend.
We will not find common ground.
Impasse
As did my nephew sweets, also one of those hundreds of thousands over history.
There was no insult of their sacrifice intended, and maybe our loss is felt to dearly to be objective. But I strongly disagree with their political actions especially in reference to the loss of their son. My apologies if insult was felt, none was intended....
His fallen heroes page....
The park....
The stones placed along the top are from friends and neighbors in remembrance.
We miss him dearly....
You're afraid to look for it, because it's out there.
So Pence "KNEW" that the 49'er players were going to kneel ?
Did those 49'er players give him a heads up ?
Did those 49'er players give him a heads up ?
If Pence needed the players to do so, he wouldn't have gone in the first place, and/or, he'd be even more of a dim bulb than previously thought.
And what is currently taking place in the court of public opinion, because of the overt pandering this represents, polls are now shifting in favor of the players!
While ignorance can be corrected …
Ya' can't fix "stupid".
ummmm....No !
If that were so, The Likes of Jerry Jones...who....by the way...knows where his money comes from in the NFL....wouldn't have just said what he just said....if your OPINION were true !
If Jerry Jones and other NFL owners could not put a viable, highly talented product on the field, the money would come from nowhere at all.
THIS from a Business Cable Chanel …
A majority of Americans say NFL
shouldn't fire players for kneeling
during the national anthem: Poll
Published 2:24 PM ET Fri, 29 Sept 2017 Updated 9:52 AM ET Mon, 2 Oct 2017
Considering they have been kneeling for a year or more, is Pence so dumb that he needed a "heads up"? I don't think so, this was obviously a bit of expensive, political posturing that is back-firing on him and his butt buddy. Another piss poor attempt to distract form the looming problems that they have no answer for, so lets ratchet up the culture wars. I can't wait for the birthday of the dead Jew time, should be tons of fun.
Yeah! What it stands for … like that thing about "Liberty and Justice for all" …
And, I know the Religious Right and Trump's Evangelical connection would not want to go against The Creator … would you?
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence. The phrase gives three examples of the "unalienable rights" which the Declaration says have been given to all human beings by their Creator, and which governments are created to protect.
Oh the hypocrisy.
If you ever have cause to call 9-11 finding yourself in the position to need help from LE, don't call them because it would be a shame if a "pig" saved your life of the life of a loved one.
Most likely he had orders from his boss to do it.
using his office for his own gain
That would be Trump and his family of con artists.
As Jerry Jones said himself....YOU KNEEL, WE DON'T PLAY !
Wouldn't it be a hoot if he actually meant "WE". Just imagine if he cancelled a game because of a "Few". Imagine how "divided" the team would actually become if the "Few" cancelled things for the "Many", and if he docked pay because of the forfeit.
What a Hoot that would be.
As far as what you put out their, It's bullshit. You didn't notice less and less of the players are kneeling now, even for this "Unity" CRAP ?
Yeah! Just imagine how much the Cowboy fans would love a forfeit brought on by an owner whose righteous indignation overruled his common and business sense!
No owner could legally dock players' pay for a forfeit the owner himself precipitated (in violation of a Collective Bargain Agreement and Labor Law which would deem such an act, A LOCKOUT)!
You're in my wheelhouse now!
J.J. "IS" the business ! He will NOT jeopardies himself. He said what he said because he knows his employee's know where their gazillion dollar bread is buttered, and it's not from the 49'ers.
If the Cowboys keep it up....they won't be "AMERICAS" Team anymore. J.J. knows this .
They might, or they might kill me for no reason, that is the problem. Also, did anyone force them to become policemen? Unfortunately power is magnetic to corruptible people, and many who wear the blue should not be.
Please cite what connotes 'Apologizing for bigots' in my post. Please be specific.
If course there are a few that should not have pulled the trigger, but it does not speak for all cops, that's what I am talking about.
The protest is not directed a ALL cops; it is directed at cops who may have killed unjustifiably. And when Grand Juries, despite the existence of "facts-in-dispute," prevent trials where upon all known facts can be laid out, that, in-and-of itself disparages both law enforcement and the right to redress … (the right to petition the government for redress of grievances means the right to ask a governmental body to solve a problem).
Your nephew honors my life as does the sacrifice of his family. As loss becomes a part of our life experience, being objective or feeling others pain is not always evident.
Having watched my step-father live with the horrors of having been a POW in Korea and his subsequent suicide, a nephew who recently returned from Turkey and a Sister-in-law who is an active Reserve Chaplain...Pence's actions were an affront to me.
Often the dictionary meaning of respect is clouded by personal experience; that very experience being what molds our views. I try to not lash out at opinions different from mine, willing to seek an understanding where an opposing view comes from...ultimately our hearts. Thank you for sharing a piece of your heart.
I don't think so, I have heard chants at these protests about all of them. Also, what is with the big lettering? Are you yelling? I can see it just fine.
Did the chants come from the protesting players?
The "big" letters are not all caps … they're just big and easier to see … the choices available range from 8pt to 36pt … and are available for members to select as they prefer.
The odds that they would were 99%. If they hadn't he would have simply left at some point anyway and nothing lost except the same taxpayer's millions of dollars for his round trip ride.
Maybe the 99% odds they would, was due to them knowing Pence would be there. After all, we have already seen the million dollar babies go full on kneel after what Trump said. Other than that, most weren't kneeling at all, for ANYTHING.
So who is playing who again ?
That is pretty doubtful, as if they don't shy away from the tirade of the President against their protest, why would they worry one iota about Pence being there?
That in itself is pretty obvious. His attendance was not merely a personal choice to root for his preferred team, but, to try to intimidate the players with the WH presence. If it was not on Trumps orders that he attend, Pence would not have had the testosterone to do so.
It's an NFL thing these days. Even J.J. has had enough, after the Cowboys little unity kneel down before the S.S.B..
49'ers should concentrate more on the game, since they are 0 and 5 so far.
People don't pay and tune in to the NFL to watch MORE politics. They pay and tune in to the NFL to get away from Politics. If the commish is going to allow politics, which we get day in and day out for FREE, the NFL should stop CHARGING folks and make it FREE too.
The NFL isn't going to win this one. Money talks, Fake bleeding heart concerns walks.
NFL Fans are waaaaaay worse than nascar Fans.
I feel sure that if the NFL or team owners felt that their pockets were suffering from the protests they would have ended it long before now. As you say...money talks. And like any other business, the team owners are not as stupid as some like to think.
It is a problem for all cops, since you never know which one will decide to murder you. Maybe if the cops policed themselves we could be a little more secure, but they steadfastly refuse.
No they are not, they are protesting unjustifiable police murders, unless you feel that out of control police are essential to our country.
Kaepernick is out, which was long ago. The "New" fire the players are trying is down to an amber, since the crowds have been booing every player that does this kneeling thing at EVERY game. It will be down to burnt cool cinders in the next week or so. J.J. has already said that he will not put up with it during the Anthem, and that's coming from the owner of "America's" Team.
I will respectfully, specifically disagree.
The flag is an iconic symbol that represents a nation whose identity is not merely symbolic, rather, among other things, "a nation of laws" with clearly defined tenets such as
• "life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness"
• "Equal protection under the law"
• The right to peaceful assembly and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"
• The "dedication to the proposition that all mean are created equal"
• et al
Blacks in America have attempted, via peaceful assembly and petitioning, and, at times, violently in protest, to have the above tenets applied to them as first class citizens. For their efforts, the MLK's were murdered and BLM scorned (sometimes rightly, other times disingenuously while being compared to the KKK, etc.).
Anyone who salutes an icon/symbol because it's expected or "required" … after which he cheers, not for the symbol or, "FOR WHICH IT STANDS," rather for the kickoff, misses the ultimate idea of "patriotism," that being (IMO) to support the humanistic ideals of this nation and, to kick the government in its metaphorical ass when it governs otherwise!
I'd like to see an open Congressional hearing on alleged "police brutality" against the demographic that has been bringing such allegations. Subpoena the cam videos of the most apparently questionable killings of blacks stopped by police for things like burned out tail lights!
In my direct personal experience, both plaintiffs and defendants often show "consciousness of guilt" when they try to thwart investigations that might otherwise exonerate them.
Let's get "it" out on the table, call out "guilt," reveal "innocence," and declare "inconclusive" when we cannot determine either!
Those who are offended by the "take a knee" can help stop it from taking away from their football … let them push their elected representatives to put an open search for the truth between the metaphorical "uprights" … in that way, they can stand upright by …
Fiat justitia ruat cælum is a Latin legal phrase, meaning "Letting justice be done though the heavens (may) fall."
My two cents.
Well, why aren't they protesting Chicago? Did I just see recently where they've crested the 600 dead by homicide this year? Really, if they were upset about Black people being shot, you'd think that they'd really go to where the numbers are as opposed to where there is a 'News Worthy' Story, wouldn't you?
Oh wait, they don't have to live in places like that anymore as they've made the big time, so why should they care about THOSE black people dying, right? Really?
The taxpayers pay for all POTUS and V-Potus travel, regardless. Why would this be considered a waste of money? Wouldn't virtually all their travel be classified the same? And their predecessors?
Well, he was the Governor of Indiana and it was the Colts that were playing. He might've liked to see the game, but the policy of the Government he is employed by is to not stay where people show what they consider disrespect.
Manipulating Chicago violence into a conservative talking point has long been a preferred tactic among a contingent of the right—and one that President Donald Trump has elevated to a stock-in-trade . So we weren't surprised to see our city's violent crime invoked by the right-leaning social-media commentariat again as a means to discredit NFL players who took a knee during the national anthem on Sunday.
The most prominent missive came courtesy of Tomi Lahren, the conservative commentator who once compared Black Lives Matter to the Ku Klux Klan .
Chicagoans in recent months have protested and held peace marches against violence and held vigils for victims of gun violence. The city surpassed 500 homicides earlier this month.
Pence was there to honor Peyton Manning's retirement and the retirement of his Jersey/Number. That doesn't happen but once......maybe the benefit of the doubt might be appropriate here?
Tada........There you go. Represents a nation !
Can't get any simpler than that.
So your beef is ?
No popular headline about Manning’s number 18 retired by the Colts or his induction into the team’s ring of honor. Judge for yourself about the motives of Pence, a native Hoosier, at the glorious celebration of one of the greatest athletes in the history of the state. He could have stayed away from Lucas Oil Stadium on Sunday. It's a disgrace that Pence copied his boss and hogged a spotlight he had no business even sharing, never mind owning.
The Vice President of the United States slapped Manning and Pence's beloved Colts in the face. Whether he's a puppet for the President or his own man, Pence trumped a day that belonged to the greatest football hero the state of Indiana has ever seen, and he did it for political purposes. He stole Manning's last great day as a Colt. Mike Pence will have to live with himself for that
Vice President Mike Pence Tweets Same Photo From 2014 Colts Game
I read YOUR "Post" from top to bottom.
If the Flag is a "Symbol of a Nation" (YOUR WORDS), is not disrespecting it by kneeling during the anthem, for no cause other than because Trump said something ?
In other words.....AGAIN....represents a "NATION" and ALL it's laws !
Got it !
If one kneels in "Protest" during the raising of that "Representation of a Nation", or kneels during what is considered a "Representative of that nation", are they not disrespecting that "Nation" ?
Good for you … halfway there.
And when its laws are implemented and enforced selectively or not at all under certain circumstances … the SYMBOL has been desecrated by those charged with upholding what it represents … and failing to do so.
By the way....do the few that decide to "Disrespect" this nation, "Trump" the many that think the "Few" are "Asses" ?
Americans are divided over whether NFL player protests during the National Anthem are a respectful way to attract attention to racial inequality nationwide, according to a new PBS NewsHour/Marist poll released Friday.
Nearly half — 48 percent — of U.S. adults said these demonstrations were a respectful way to draw attention to their concerns, while another 46 percent said the protests are disrespectful. The remaining 6 percent of Americans said they were unsure.
Why is it that conservatives think that they can stupidly deflect from the subject and anyone but another Republican would agree? One more time, since obviously, you have no idea what you are talking about, players kneel not because of black homicide in general, nor to disrespect the flag, the anthem or the country. These are all silly conjectures that are only given to disguise what is actually going on. They are protesting police acting like criminals and having their badge used as a get out of jail free card. That is the issue, hope you are able to comprehend the truth, although I realize that there is no guarantee. None are so blind as those who refuse to see.
Polling "Football Fans" ?
"Polls"....were waaaaaay off during the elections, so you probably know what I think of "Polls".
Difference between you and I is....basing on my short time here posting with you......I look and actually listen to what's going on around me in "Real Time". You....... just like to dig up some Poll that may fit your argument.
The boo's at the games ..... again .....tell me otherwise.
Again....J.J.'s comments on this issue now, tell me otherwise.
Again.....The new Goodell letter ..... TELL'S ME OTHERWISE !
Then you should REALLY be pissed at the Political Left. They Love this "For the few" crap.
Would that be considered........"Selective" and worthy of protest ?
A friend of mine found a pussy hat in the gutter. They had it framed in order to remind them of what failure looks like.
One of my favorite ..... shall we say ......observances.....is:
Someone protests with a sign that says: "I dream women will one day have the same rights as guns".
The response was: "Okay then, from this day forward, you can no longer board an airplane, enter a polling place, go to school, enter a courtroom, be around children, ride in a vehicle without someone with a lisc. to posses you, and if left alone, you must be locked up".
Now isn't that a hoot !
That lets you know that those that protest wants, know not what they do !
Way off starting with the Jemes Comey letter talking about Clinton e-mails issued as early voting began while not mentioning that he was, at that same time, investigating Russian interference in that election …
And hours after the the Access Hollywood, Trump "pussy grabber" video was shown, Wikileaks began releasing Podesta DNC e-mails … and it is typical that hackers, when releasing hacked e-mails, toss in fake e-mails (it's called "spoofing").
What you personally think of polls is not necessarily in line with realities.
And when you and I started this dialogue, you were fine with polls that indicated fan disapproval with the knees … but now that those polls are going the other way, you let me know what you think of polls.
But … I think we're having a good debate!
Way off starting with: The beginning of the election.
Trump wasn't even supposed to win the Republican side.
Anyone can cite isolated examples as you have.
Is that where you want our discussion to go?
Let me know and I'll go there.
Trump got billions of dollars in free publicity form the media he called, fake, dishonest, etc., not because he was discussing policy specifics, rather because he was a carnival con man that made for sensational coverage and "selling papers".
One thing no one has brought up is that Pence disrespected all the players who did not kneel by leaving.
The letter:
OK; Let's deal with the letter … it's actual contents (in bold) and the assessment posted below; I'll start with these and complete the letter later on.
Re: Fall Meeting/National Anthem
We live in a country that can feel very divided. Sports, and especially the NFL, brings people together and lets them set aside those divisions, at least for a few hours.
Yes, nothing bridges divides like the most lucrative sports league in North America, which offers its players the least contract guarantees of any league; and which primarily draws talent from impoverished communities via a feeder system that denies adult athletes anything more than a small fraction of its gargantuan profits. And nothing heals divisions like asking those players to set aside their political views and honor a tradition with jingoistic undertones that, in part, was paid for by the Department of Defense and served as marketing for the military .
The current dispute over the National Anthem is threatening to erode the unifying power of our game, and is now dividing us, and our players, from many fans across the country.
It’s starting to hit us in our pockets, folks.
I’m very proud of our players and owners who have done the hard work over the past year to listen, understand and attempt to address the underlying issues within their communities. At our September committee meetings, we heard directly from several players about why these issues are so important to them and how we can support their work. And last week, we met with the leadership of the NFLPA and more players to advance the dialogue.
These are their communities and their problems. And while we’re happy to throw money at community initiatives that work to address symptoms of poverty and inequality (provided we get our due recognition for the display of charity), let’s keep it off the TV broadcast, gents.
Like many of our fans, we believe that everyone should stand for the National Anthem. It is an important moment in our game. We want to honor our flag and our country, and our fans expect that of us. We also care deeply about our players and respect their opinions and concerns about critical social issues. The controversy over the Anthem is a barrier to having honest conversations and making real progress on the underlying issues. We need to move past this controversy, and we want to do that together with our players.
It’s about honoring the flag, plain and simple. Don’t you know, when John Carlos and Tommie Smith raised their fists at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City, they were protesting the flag and the anthem , not racial inequity at home. All this talk from people like Michael Bennett and Malcolm Jenkins about gaps in income and education and a racial disparity in the rate of killings at the hands of police—that’s all window dressing. These men dishonor the flag.
That said, we care deeply about our players’ concern for social issues, and we badly want to move past this money-sucking conflict and talk about real issues. Not that we would actually acknowledge what those issues are in this memo.
Also, this memo is not going say outright that we are going to compel players to stand for the anthem. But you get the idea.
Building on many discussions with clubs and players, we have worked to develop a plan that we will review with you at next week’s League meeting. This would include such elements as an in-season platform to promote the work of our players on these core issues, and that will help to promote positive change in our country .
You want NFL.com to blog about Richard Sherman visiting a Boys and Girls Club in South Central? Done. You want the NFL media relations army to blitz reporters with stories about local food drives and whatnot? Well, we already do that, so, done! But players, please keep your thoughts and initiatives to yourselves on Sunday afternoons, because a significant percentage of people who spend their money on us and our advertisers do not see you as men with emotions and empathy and pride worthy of their attention—especially if it disrupts their escape into sports. To them, you are lucky to have risen to this station in life (through no hard work of your own) and ought to be grateful to the patriotic billionaires who stick localities with the bill for their new stadiums and see fit to pay you to play a game. Grown men willing to pay hard-earned cash to wear your name on their backs and watch you perform would be loath to consider a belief of yours that contradicts their own. And we don’t dare challenge them.
How do you figure that VP Pence "disrespected" those who remained standing and showed their respect to our flag and national anthem?
If that's your idea of a rebuttal … I might need the tissues to wipe away the tears when the laughing stops.
Otherwise … it's always gratifying to encounter a point-counter-point discussion.
Maybe next time, huh?
Donald Trump Rode $5 Billion in Free Media to the White House
The real estate magnate got $4.96 billion in free earned media in the year leading up to the presidential election, according to data from tracking firm mediaQuant . He received $5.6 billion throughout the entirety of his campaign, more than Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Ted Cruz, Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio combined.
"You have Donald Trump coming along and getting all this coverage without spending a dime," said Paul Senatori, chief analytics officer at Portland-based mediaQuant.
Over the past 12 months, the president-elect received more than $800 million in free earned broadcast media, compared to $666 million for Clinton, and $2.6 billion in free earned online news attention, compared to $1.6 billion for his rival. He edged out her and other major political names in American and worldwide newspapers as well.
A'ight so do a lil research.. if you listen to the interviews following the convention Mr Khan implies/if not states that he wrote his words on the way to the convention - now dig a wee bit deeper in your research, back to the beginnings of a politician named Richard Nixon .. he championed the "pocket constitution" by always having a copy of the Constitution at the ready.
Your comment has been edited .. contents removed - so I will answer what you left remaining. Yes the Khan family was invited, and the use of their sons death was for one purpose (in my opinion) to solicit the very reaction that you appear to have had for Mr Khan speech.
The Khan's loss was unimaginable to me ... but they chose to bring their sons death into the public arena - and pointed the finger at Trump - for his proposed "Muslim Ban" .. that is PR and trying to play the heart strings! A calculated move by the H. campaign
So....the media was WRONG then....But they are right now ?
The friggin kneeling by the "Castro loving", "Pig" Hating Colin got the division started. In other words, the Commish's money maker players got the division started, not Trump. Trump just put Quotes around what was already happening, and then the Players and owners came down with "STUPID Syndrome", when they thought kneeling more would make it better and bring people together.
"Like many of our fans, we believe that everyone should stand for the National Anthem. It is an important moment in our game. We want to honor our flag and our country, and our fans expect that of us. "
Tada ! He has figured out that there are more fans than not, that think what the players are doing is killing the game, AND, dividing the country. His contradictory statements in his own letter lets one know "He knows not what was actually done" !
"This would include such elements as an in-season platform to promote the work of our players on these core issues, and that will help to promote positive change in our country."
To Late. Damage has already been done.
But YOU were. Poll's correct now ?
I have explained the poll fluctuations and reasons for the being, in your words, "waaaay off".
If you want to have a reasonable dialogue, I'm in … if you are going to post "gotcha" questions, I'm out.
YOU explained what YOU thought caused Hillary to loose. That's why Democrats keep loosing. Those kind of thoughts. I suppose it would NEVER cross your mind that "People" are just fed up with Politicians, and voted Trump in, without ANY help from the media or the political types. Couldn't happen that way huh !
By his leaving when they stayed.
I have nothing for you Tessylo .. you would never listen, even if I tried........................
Good luck with yourself and take care...
Sure thing, I will show the respect due (I did not call the VP names) VP Pence definitely honored the event!
Everyone is remembering and talking about what a special moment it was for Peyton Manning, a truly skilled and gifted athlete!......................
So much silliness, so little time.
#1. Football is divisive by design, you have 2 teams trying to beat each other.
#2. The division was started by the police murdering unarmed black men, and Trump supports their lawlessness.
So much silliness !
This statement alone disqualifies you as a serious player in this debate. That is if you were really serious and not just "carpet bombing" like many seem to do with Trump
Of course it could and did. After all, the depths of human stupidity have yet to be plumbed. Obviously, some people thought it would be smart to put a moron in the White House. Like alcoholics, they can't start recovering until they reach rock-bottom. Too bad they had to drag the rest of us down as well.
How have YOU been dragged down ?
Things are booming for me right now.
You are not the judge here. If you simply don't have an answer, just say so.
Comments that are unsubstantiated nonsense are easily judged and yours has been judged to be seriously wanting in any factual proof whatsoever. So .... it is nonsense.
Trump has never supported any such thing. Oh i'm sure you have some ridiculous examples that rationalize that he did but those will be nonsense as well.
Honestly, one wonders when the butt-hurt will begin to cease and desist. In your case i'm guessing ..... never.
Things are booming if you own stock, most Americans don't. We are leaping towards a nuclear war with N. Korea, about to make Iran a nuclear power as well. We are seeing our healthcare system being systematically destroyed, if his tax cuts go through we will see deficits go through the roof while income inequality grows exponentially. Trump is destroying the office of the presidency, reducing it to a joke. He is increasing pollution, hoping to expedite climate change. I could go on, but you won't listen anyway.
I don't own stocks. Don't even have a 401k either.
"We are seeing our healthcare system being systematically destroyed,"
We are seeing the Liberal idea being destroyed.
"if his tax cuts go through we will see deficits go through the roof"
Sounds like you have a beef with government spending over decades of policy making. Trump wasn't president then.
" while income inequality grows exponentially".
Sounds like a personal problem to me.
"Trump is destroying the office of the presidency, reducing it to a joke."
Funny how other countries are jumping on the self help band wagon right now. That's a Bad thing for this country ?
"He is increasing pollution"
Really now. Killing Old people too ?
Honestly, I wonder who you think you are that you can summarily dismiss what you don't agree with as nonsense. Don't you get wet living in De Nile.
I’d like to see the NFL ratings this weekend with the boycott! The New York Giants Stadium was half filled in their game yesterday. But part of that could be because they can’t win a game this season!
I'm with ya! We may see the end of football being the #1 sport
So, when priests kneel to pray, they are disrespecting God? That explains a lot about religion...
Some NFL players recently claimed that they took a knee "to pray" during our national anthem and thought that intelligent Americans would believe that was their real reason. These overpaid idiots can't even get their acts together well enough to decide exactly WHY they're "protesting".
Hi Jasper -
yes, all of them became very religious in two weeks
Hey there, Sunshine. They sure did!
Actually, it says a lot about your logic
And not so much about yours (if you have any). Please explain why taking a knee in one case is disrespectful and in another not.
It's also hard to believe Americans make that argument after Kapernick said the whole point of kneeling was to protest the flag and the country.
Colin Kaepernick protests anthem over treatment of minorities
The San Francisco 49ers acknowledge Colin Kaepernick opting not to stand for the national anthem and say it is within Kaepernick’s rights to choose to participate
He has the right to be an asshole, that's not the issue. Is anyone claiming he should be put in jail?
he stated the reason he kneels is because he refuses to respect the flag or the country. To pretend that his kneeling is "a sign of respect" is blatantly false and paternalistic bullshit. It's funny watching white liberals ignore what kapernick actually said and try to speak for him.
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game.
"To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
Spare me the "white liberal" bullshit and make your case with citations.
You made the statement. Please explain what a football player protesting the national anthem has to do with a Priest showing reverence for God?
Exactly. Thanks for proving my point.
He admits he kneels because he refuses to show any respect to the flag or the country.
His reason for showing disrespect is irrelevant. It's still intentional disrespect. He could kneel because he hates the way the USA treats unicorns, it's still intended as disrespect. To argue otherwise, after Kapernick said he kneels because he won't respect our flag or country, is simply dishonest.
Our school system isn't what it used to be...
I did not make that statement.
Please show where the player was protesting the national anthem.
Show me where kneeling translates into protesting, and if does (in your mind) explain why priests are protesting their own Gods when they kneel.
Sort of like crawling over broken glass, equally disfunctionate.
Respect is earned, not given. I imagine that when Colin feels the he is getting respect from his flag and his country, he will stand.
One thing I noticed during Sunday's slate of games...
The various media didn't cover it at all. didn't mention it and the cameras didn't show it, at least not when I was watching it. This was at a sports bar when they covered all the games.
Nobody was covering any protesting players. I expect in the wake of Las Vegas, protesting the flag is not something anyone wants to see.
It's great that Pence left instead of putting up with overpaid millionaires putting on shows of petty civil disobedience, but it will probably only encourage the far left and fake news.
There should have been thunderous applause when Pence left. Good riddance.
There'd have be more people showing up to the half empty stadiums to make the thunderous applause in the first place.
Did the stands look anything like the stands at the Trump inauguration parade?
If you count the deranged leftists rioting that weekend then the Trump inauguration had a lot of attendees.
Get Jill Stein on the horn -- STAT! We need another recount!
Nobody cares about that photo. Like it or not, Donald J. Trump is the duly elected POTUS. Don't like it? Anti-Trumpers have options:
Citation, please.
you mean both of them?
They should of had it in Iowa and a tractor parade, tRump could have thrown funnel cakes at them, what a hoot!
Fair enough!
Individuals have a right to protest PEACEFULLY and without attempts to thwart or intimidate or intentionally disrupt.
Thank you for the citation.
It was a $100,000 political stunt. That seems to be about the only thing this White House has to offer.
Who told you to believe that -- MSNBC, CNN, or the NYT? Be honest.
Amon others, Steve Schmidt, Republican strategist.
More like 243,000 just for the stop, he then went on to a fundraiser in CA.
I think the RNC has disavowed Steve Schmidt these days. He's too logical for the garden variety republican
It was a $100,000 political stunt. That seems to be about the only thing this White House has to offer.
Next couple of years will be a GREAT time to be a college football player. Your chances of going pro sooner are going up daily!
Just like running for high government office especially POTUS.
kneeling players are overpaid, underpreforming, ungrateful and too dumb to know they had it made
The players were usually not on the field for the anthem. It is a relatively new practice. I think they should all stay in the locker room as was the practice.
Stephen A. Smith Points Out NFL's Paid Patriotism Problem
" Smith brought up the fact that until 2009—eight years and a new Presidential administration after 9/11—players weren't on the field for the national anthem and instead generally remained in the locker room. According to Smith's boy (and the researcher at ESPN who checked it), the switch happened "because it was seen as a marketing strategy to make the athletes look more patriotic."
Add in the fact that the NFL received millions of taxpayer dollars from the Department of Defense and the National Guard for patriotic displays, and it puts the entire Kaepernick hullabaloo in a different light. "Fans should have confidence that their hometown heroes are being honored because of their honorable military service, not as a marketing ploy ," Senator John McCain, the Vietnam War veteran and P.O.W., saidin a statement last year coinciding with " Tackling Paid Patriotism ," a joint oversight report released by McCain and his fellow Arizona Republican Senator John Flake.
trump and his base are just using this as a political ploy for the simple minded and it appears to be working. I have said it before and I will say it again, the flag is just a symbol just as a cross is just a symbol. The ones that are disrespecting this symbol are the ones that are trying to force or think every one should honor it the way they do. It is pathetic that some would use a symbol of freedom to force every one to one frame of mind.
I have said it before and I will say it again, I will not bow my will to a symbol and I certainly do not do idol worship.
That's simply false. It was only for nationally televised night games prior to 2009 that players generally were in the locker room for the anthem because of scheduling. For the overwhelming majority of games, players have always stood on the sideline.
Players were not always on the field. It was mandated in 2009 that players be on the field.
Good points. The flag does not feed anyone, protect anyone, or give anyone a job. It doesn't say good morning or give you a kiss good night. It doesn't care about you at all. It is a THING. It only becomes something when a person makes it into something
Last nights ratings were yet another season low.
The NFL having its "new coke" moment. It's pandering to the liberal media at the expense of alienating its loyal customers.
"It's pandering to the liberal media at the expense of alienating its loyal customers."
The NFL is pandering to the PC crowd as well. They say nothing about the disrespect shown to the National Anthem, our Flag or, by extension, the men and women that have fought and died for them but when the Cowboys wanted to show some respect and honor the five officers gunned downs in cold blood in their city by wearing a small patch on their uniform they were denied.
A Republican strategist early Monday slammed Vice President Mike Pence for walking out of an NFL game in Indianapolis after some players kneeled during the national anthem, calling the vice president's behavior “utterly appalling."
“Utterly appalling, wasteful, profligate, disgusting behavior from the vice president,” Steve Schmidt …
“He ought to be ashamed of himself.”
Pence left the Colts game on Sunday after some San Francisco 49ers kneeled during the anthem. He has since been under fire, with many calling his actions a “political stunt.”Reports that the vice president’s trip to the game cost taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars have further sparked criticism.
“It’s truly amazing,” Schmidt said early Monday. “So he took Air Force Two, full package of Secret Service from Las Vegas to Indianapolis for a stunt, inconvenienced tens of thousands of Colts fans to, again, use the flag and the anthem as a prop.”
The flag represents the right to express views that may be unpopular. The players aren’t burning the flag, spitting on it, or spinning to turn their backs to it. All they did was take a knee and I can’t imagine any more respectul way of expressing their view if they’re going to be on the field during the anthem. I wish the administration would pay as much attention to the major international and domestic issues facing the country as they do to what football players think.
Ironically, Pence walking out would be celebrated by cheers from both sides: his supporters would say “good” and his detractors would say “good riddance.”
Why do the people at the top continue to divide the masses ?
Because we are easier to control that way.
Moving half a country is easier than moving everyone's opinion in the country, also all ya need is a slight majority and you control us all.
I'm not looking for elected officials to move my opinion. I elect them to represent my opinion and not to cave to the opposition party.
None of us are, but they certainly will try IF their opinion is different that yours on most anything and they want your vote.. If you are of a different opinion they will either lie to you about their opinion, try to get you to change your opinion or ignore you altogether and gain votes elsewhere.
That's how politicians operate. They dont need everyone to agree just slightly over half.
Now let's put all the cards on the table:
1. This article
2. Cost of Pence's NFL Trip Now Under Microscope Link
3. Report: 8 years of Obama vacations cost $85 million Link
As on another article everyone was happy to see Associated Press, Newsers and Reuters as legitimate news sources. I don't see it that way. All you have to do is look at the author of the articles, find their Twitter account, check to see if they have a Wiki article on them and search for any other information you can about the authors. It's the articles they decide to put up that makes the difference. I could give a crap about these news sources being any better than anyone else. Sure they're big, been around for years, but they have their agenda just like anyone else and with a little research you'll discover that is true.
Now in saying that, there are some authors who do good unbiased reporting as well.
It is laughable for you to act like you and your sources dont have an agenda.
Looks like tRump will blow that out of the water in two, keep pointing to Obama it really makes your point mute.
Oh, that football trip was just a PR trip to spread goodwill. It was government business. I am sure Mrs. Pence was just real excited about it. /s
Do we really need those to tell us what we just saw?
ALT 🛂 Immigration 🇺🇸 @ ALT_uscis
Some don't understand the @ VP 's waste of tax dollars today. Here is a visual. He flew all the way from Vegas to be a dick. Then back 2 CA
So tell me did you also complain abiut obama and moochelle taking separate planes to the same city on the same day for their convenience?
Citation. please.
Citation for what? Please tell me you don't remember the obamas two plane trip for a interviews on the west coast.
Easy.
One of the best social media posts I have seen. From Aaron Rodgers
From Instgram
The player should give some of the money they got for playing the game back to all those at the stadium and back to the networks that carried their game since those people and groups paid to watch them ply football not to engage in some irrelavent protest.
The players, AS TAXPAYERS, paid, in part, for the playing of the National Anthem, the full payment of which went into the coffers of the NFL.
See if anyone can equivocate about that reality!
I wasn't implying anything. Regardless, PH took care of it for you.
I've paid quite a bit more than that. I'm in the 28% tax bracket right now with maybe a bump to the next bracket if year end goes well.
Between that and the taxes my business and employees pay, we pay a lot of taxes.
** Note: this was a response to a post that got removed by another member posting above ***
Is expecting taxpayers to support this staged outrage in keeping with conservative values?
That is of course our own opinion, to which others may disagree. As far as class goes, Pence could take some lessons on that from those who really know what class is. And it does not mean other than the white, rich and powerful class, as he is prone to believe is the only class that deserves his respect.
And this is just my own opinion.
These players need to understand that freedom ended for them when they signed contracts. They are now no better than highly paid performing dogs who must stand or sit on command when the owner pulls their chain. I feel so proud to see them forced to stand to pay their respect to a symbol of the freedom they no longer have.
No one's Constitutional rights end at the signing of a contract as it is illegal for parties to ratify a formal agreement that violates law.
The "symbol" they "disrespect" became disrespected NOT when players took a knee … it became disrespected when their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to free speech under the First Amendment, faced an attempt by the POTUS to abrogate that right.
Attempting to use one's "free speech" to abrogate the free speech of others, is unconstitutional.
Respecting a symbol without respecting that for which the symbol represents, is misguided at best, hypocritical, and, if/when resulting in the denial of individual rights … unconstitutional.
I was being sarcastic but there is no constitutional right involved here. The first amendment is only applicable to the government. A private employer can do as he likes unless some other law or provision in a contract prohibits it.
In this case the NFL is the employer and has not required players to salute the flag by CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT, nor, even via its agreement with the Defense Department which pays the NFL for its "patriotic" ceremony.
NFL players were not required to be on the sidelines during the playing of the U.S. national anthem for primetime games prior to 2009.
An image widely circulated on Facebook in response to the National Football League’s anthem controversy held that NFL players did not stand on the sidelines during the playing of the U.S. national anthem before games prior to 2009. Instead, they stayed in locker rooms during the anthem and did not begin standing along the sidelines for renditions of “The Star-Spangled Banner” until after the Defense Department began paying the NFL to hold patriotic displays in 2009:
“NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this the practice began in 2009, adding, ‘As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.'”
The practice of “paid patriotism” came to light on 30 April 2015, when Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) released a statement chiding the New Jersey Army National Guard for paying between $97,000 and $115,000 to the New York Jets for a series of promotions involving military personnel. That November, Flake and fellow Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain issued a report stating that the Defense Department had been paying for patriotic displays in football and other sports between 2011 and 2014:
Nothing says freedom like force, blackmail and coercion.
Coerced patriotism will always be fake. Of course, with the Trump administration, fake is standard.
Has the religious right not realized that saluting the flag is in fact a form of idol worship, something they abhor.
Oh well, Goodell all but ordered all players to stand from now on. Guess the loss of revenue last week stung a bit, lol.
love to see your facts to prove that is his reasoning. i mean i understand it is a good thing to suggest but without facts to back it up, then it is just your opinion, instead of a validated statement.
Obviously it is my opinion, I believe it's true because I can see on the TV a hell of a lot of empty seats last weekend. So forgive me for putting 2 and 2 together and using deductive reasoning.
Perhaps tRump can sign an E.O requiring all season ticket holders to attend all games, I am sure the owners would make a lot of rules for the players to follow, standing in quiet and respectful reverence to the anthem followed by hail to the king oops I mean chief. No more empty seats.
Obviously it is my opinion, I believe it's true because I can see on the TV a hell of a lot of empty seats last weekend. So forgive me for putting 2 and 2 together and using deductive reasoning.
Why is it that Nazis in Charlottesville promoting hatred and racism does not offend Trump and his bigot-minions, but football players protesting bigotry and racism gets his scorn?
Trump and his base repudiate the resistance to haters and bigotry ... while in their twisted, political way, avoid acknowledging that what the flag and pledge symbolize ... are the very things the players want to be upheld.
Attendance at NFL games isn't down because of the players protest, it's down because Trump supporters understand the message between the lines.
Does any sane person believe that Trump would have picked a fight with Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers?
let me help you out.... empty seats can happen because people get up for food and also are late to games due to traffic and also based on HOW SUCCESSFUL they are. and the Nielsen ratings STILL dont track wireless capable devices like games streaming on cellphones and laptops(people at work, parks, car out camping) watching , and multiple tv screens like at bars. i would agree that some ticket prices are not affordable to all, but that is business in many places.
funny that Chicago bears just played on Monday night and the announcer said " the stadium has been a total sellout for years. same with denver and same with green bay and so on.
so my point is that your OPINION is given to suggest to those less educated or those not willing to check for themselves if your OPINION has some merit.
thus i call you out on it, because hopefully those people understand that your need to comment is based on faking them out.
But i can hope that after noting mine and others comments ,who know the NFL is a billion dollar business that a few empty seats wont effect it.
Why is it that Nazis in Charlottesville promoting hatred and racism does not offend Trump and his bigot-minions, but football players protesting bigotry and racism gets his scorn?
Because Nazis in Charlottesville are not on anyones radars. The NFL is one of the most well known activities in the United States. That may very well be why you hear more about one than you do the other?
Attendance at NFL games isn't down because of the players protest,it's down because Trump supporters understand the message between the lines.
I'm a Trump supporter, and I have no idea what you are talking about.
Faking them out??
Hey, your the one who just said that ratings, viewership, and loss of revenue is do to bad traffic and stadium hot dogs, lol...
Please, go find somone else to psycho-analyze on why they feel the need to comment... any conflict we may have had died when newsvine died.
lets not bullshit each other...................you and those like you make comments with out validity and do so to see the response of people who think like you. Thus some of those people only do so because they FEEL WHAT you typed has some truth to it, and do take it as fact. Sadly that is how some people work.
you have exposed yourself in not understanding that there are OTHER avenues that are not documented that come into play that can effect what you see as empty seats. So my comment was to point out that depending on WHEN you viewed your tv , some of those situations could be in play. So i provided a point of referance to suggest that your comment is not accurate when some of the places i mentioned have not had good teams as of late and still pack the house.
Get over yourself, the fact that you dont like being reminded that some of us dont by bullshit just because you find others that do is something you have to deal with. as i said, if your OPINION has a sense of validity then NO ONE would point it out, but they would just not agree with it , as i do.
By the way i dont have a conflict i just dont agree with your opinion and want you to support it by providing something that would LEAD YOU to give your opinion you did. Kinda like i provided information on the Nielsen ratings.
Oh good, lets talk about ratings, shall we?
But you want to blame a traffic jam on 694, and some lousy concessions... fine. lol!
well first off you dont get that the game was in chicago so hwy 694 is illrelvant. but as you well know, traffic repair work did have HWY 35W shut down, so yes grid lock is a problem just like this weekend with the green bay game and zombies and HWY 35 E shut down.
the point is that the THIS stadium like many are full or sold out, the fact that tv ratings are down has validity for those who can actually watch the games.
we have california fires, florida and texas hurricans and puerco with 81 percent still with out power. now there may be on a few folks that actually watch football but that means they cant be counted.
in the end, what does that translate into as money lost. NOT MUCH when revenue sharing exists and contracts are in place regardless.
now again if you choose not to watch - thats called choice. But the fact that low ratings has not produced a financial loss that as of right now has been documented.
i am going to repeat it....i dont think it adds up to much in the grand scheme of things.
AAAH because i know your a smart guy, i assume you understand that for folks who come to the city and dont know this..........yep they could be late to the game, LOL LOL duh(thus an open seat might be present when the tv cameras scans the building-UGH
or maybe folks who arent from here wouldnt know this either if they didnt check.................humm
or maybe this one
yep it does matter. not too much but a little itsy bitsy tiny amount.
Trump and base claim that the NFL players "disrespect the military" via their protest …
… while booing a military hero, John McCain!
When they can't add viable substance to their argument … the ad hominem.
John McCain gets boo'd because he's a RINO, liberal piece of shit. Not because he was in a POW camp. As a sailor he deserves our praise, as a senator he deserves our boot in his ass.