Paul Manafort, Rick Gates Told to Surrender in Special Prosecutor Probe
Former Donald Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and his longtime business associate Rick Gates have been told to surrender to law enforcement on Monday, a senior U.S. official told NBC News.They are the first people to surrender in the investigation by Special Counsel Robert Mueller into the Trump campaign's alleged ties to Russia and Moscow's interference in the election last year.
Four sources, including multiple law enforcement sources, tell NBC News that the charge, or charges, against Manafort, the former chairman of Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign, are likely tax-related and that there was a statute of limitations issue in play that may have helped drive Monday's action.
All of the sources say that the indictment does not preclude other charges being filed against Manafort in the future.
A White House source said officials there are "not surprised" to see movement from the special counsel, adding: "The White House has been saying for weeks the special counsel is moving far more quickly and deliberatively than people have been reporting. The fact that the special counsel is actively performing its duties does not come as a surprise to the White House."NBC News confirmed on Friday that a federal grand jury in Washington had approved the first criminal charges in the special counsel's probe, marking a significant milestone in an inquiry that's roiled Trump’s presidency.
Manafort, who served on the Trump campaign from April to August 2016, has long been under investigation in connection with his lobbying work for a Russian-backed Ukrainian political party, work that involved his former partner, Gates.Legal experts have long predicted that Manafort would be charged and speculation ramped up after the FBI conducted an early-morning search in July at his Alexandria Virginia apartment using a "no-knock warrant."
Gates is a lesser known figure, who worked with Manafort in Ukraine and flew to Moscow for meetings with associates of Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch who paid Manafort and Gates tens of millions of dollars, NBC News has reported.
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Four sources, including multiple law enforcement sources, tell NBC News that the charge, or charges, against Manafort, the former chairman of Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign, are likely tax-related and that there was a statute of limitations issue in play that may have helped drive Monday's action.
I really prefer when they use named sources, as I have an issue with the NYT's integrity (this story was first published by them). Interesting that they are pulling him in using a tax issue that has a statute of limitations issue, meaning it would have to be what? 3 years ago, more or less? I wonder if they are hoping he will cut a deal and provide something incriminating? Well, settle back in your chairs, get your popcorn ready.......
Paul Manafort, a former campaign manager to President Donald Trump, and a business associate were indicted by a federal grand jury on 12 counts including conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money and violating federal lobbying and banking laws, the federal special counsel said on Monday.
"The indictment contains 12 counts: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts," the counsel said in a statement.
I'd only read the one story, though it still seems as if this investigation has yielded some corollary charges like these, as these seem to have nothing to do with the Trump Campaign or the election. If he and his partner violated the law, then they should be convicted in a court of law. Still waiting to see where this goes and if these charges are levied to be used for arm twisting Manafort.
I agree. We need to wait and see where this goes.
I'm sure there will be more info to come.
Mueller isn't done yet, so maybe it's to early to celebrate trump's innocence.
That's a pretty stupid statement. No one is "celebrating Trump's innocence". Though I'm sure, in some quarters, people are celebrating Trump's demise, which is also not been established.
Still no evidence of any pay for play or malfeasance that Republicans have been able to nail Hillary with, yet the right wants to hang her, so your comment appears to be quite hypocritical. Apparently after dozens of investigations on everything from white water, Benghazi to her email servers, there's been nothing Republicans have actually found to be criminal. If they had found any actual evidence she'd have been arrested so fast it would make our heads spin. Instead it just more Trump supporters playing judge, jury and executioner as they've believed every fantasy like pizza parlor sex rings, the supposed Seth Rich assassination and supposedly mysterious deaths of random acquaintances that in their minds MUST be evidence of guilt.
Playing the "circumstantial" evidence game as Republicans love to do with Hillary, one can build quite an impressive case against Trump. Trump insists on "No Collusion", but when you start listing all of the people in his sphere with direct ties to Putin it's truly unreal. You have of course Paul Manafort, Carter Page, Mike Flynn, Jeff Sessions, Rex Tillerson, Roger Stone, Felix Sater, Jared Kushner, Don Jr., all tied to Sergey Kislyak, Dimitri Firtash, Sal Lauria, Fedor Emelianenko, Sergei Millian, Aras Agalarov, Oleg Deripaska, Viktor Yanukovych, konstantin Killmnik, Rosneft, Gazprom, RT, GRU and Julian Assange.
I don't know where the Mueller investigation will end up, but these first couple indictments are definitely not the end, they're just the beginning of following the threads. And the more people Mueller has in their cages singing, the more we'll find out about just how far the connections go.
Really? Sounds like it to me. "as these seem to have nothing to do with the trump campaign or the election." (wiping the sweat from your brow.) The investigation is not over by a long shot, I think.
One word for you. Clinton. Tell us all about how the right NEVER acts as judge, jury and executioners.
Yay? First indictments, yet I see nothing regarding collusion with Russia...
Conspiracy against the US [not sure what this means] what is the conspiracy? I went searching, and the conspiracy to launder money would most likely be a charge of fraud ... conspiracy against the US is rather broad - I cannot find an explanation of what this even is.
Perhaps someone knows more about this charge, and can clarify it ... I will keep looking!
Found this:
Former Donald Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and his longtime business associate Rick Gates were indicted by a federal grand jury on 12 charges, including conspiracy against the U.S., Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office announced Monday.
Other charges against Manafort and Gates include money laundering, being an unregistered foreign agent and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.
.........................................................................
Now we really are draining the swamp. About damn time !
Actually, if you read all of it, you'd know that this refers to taxes and that there is a statute of limitations problem, which is why the charges were leveled now. If he's guilty, I'll be happy to see him pay his time back to Uncle Sugar. If he isn't, then he isn't. Again, if this has to do with the statute of limitations, we're talking what, 3 years or more?
I dont care when charges are filed. I knew some of trumps people would be dirty. Where there is that much money someone usually is. I'll bet trump did all he could to keep himself clean meanwhile encouraging others to do the dirty shit like flynn and possibly maniford and others.
truumps family and himself are probably on the fringes of anything that would take him down though. trumps not stupid just a loose cannon when it comes to playing with the rules or laws, That's why he has so many damn lawyers to begin with.
Now the question is what did trump ask these people to do and WTF did they really do? And was any of it illegal ?
trump won on "Draining the swamp" Evidently Now it's finally happening. Good !
Annnnnd has NOTHING to do with the campaign. This is just "other" findings in the investigation that is supposed to be about collusion.
The scope of Mueller's investigation is in regards to collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. The witch hunt on the side most likely has nothing to do with the President and/or Russia.. none of the charges so far relate to Russia, they are Manforte and associates 'fraudulent' behaviors.
Someone told me when you came over that you are a moderate or liberal. Boy were they confused.
Gee maybe we should let maniford walk case he was found out accidentally to be laundering money......LOL
Now the question is what did trump ask these people to do and WTF did they really do? And was any of it illegal ?
That's really funny.
Manafort is being charged with things he did long before he became Trump's campaign manager - he was manager from June 2016 - August 2016 (3 months tops). One of 3 Campaign managers that Trump used during the campaign. BTW he was ousted by Trump when rumors first surfaced that Manafort had done work for Viktor Yanukovych of the Ukraine.
Donald Trump is dirty on the finances.
If money laundering is a focus of the overall investigation, Trump is shitting in his pants right now.
Why do you say that? Because they don't agree with you 100% on all matters or because you aren't able to label them and put them in a certain box?
Now the question is what did trump ask these people to do and WTF did they really do? And was any of it illegal ?
That's really funny.
How so ?
Flynn evidently was told by trump to "jump the gun" on negotiations with a foreign government (russia) before trump was sworn in and had the legal authority to negotiate.
You think that's all that's trump did so far that was illegal ? I doubt it. I do believe trump is smart enough to try to keep himself and his family away from anything that will take the presidency away from him though.
BUT I'll bet ya he involved others on his behalf in shit they should never have ventured into. We'll see.
Someday perhaps trump will be honest and play by the rules but I doubt it, his way has been so profitable for him so far. So far all I've seen from trump is insults, grandiose promises, intimidation and threats to get his way. I knew a 3 year old who operated the same way. LOL
I didn't see Trump's name in the indictment.
Let me ask you now that Paul Manafort has been indicted for things he did, without Trump, where do you think this "investigation" goes from here?
I said it because it occurred to me.
Why did you answer?
Sorry to disappoint. Did you have anything to add to the conversation - or are you commenting to me for personal reasons? Should I be offended?
These charges are 'great' - YAY! yet they prove nothing in regards to Russia and the collusion that started the need to have a Special Prosecutor in the first place. If that makes me UN-moderate so be it.
Please do not attack me in a personal manner, do not like my politics ... cool do not read what I have to say - thanks and good luck with yourself.
Honestly Kathleen i think most Americans feel very similar to that. I know i do.
It's just the whiny partisans on the far left and far right that don't. They are a minority.
Problem is they whine loud and they whine constantly.
NO argument from me steve ... completely agree, while investigating Russian Collusion possible crimes were discovered that need dealt with - I am simply saying that these charges have nothing to do with collusion between the Trump Campaign and Russia... [as of yet]
The day is still young and Mueller already has his first guilty plea from a member of the Trump campaign admitting to lying about his dealings with the Russians.
What the hell will we know tomorrow or a month from now if the first hours has brought this much corruption to light.
Place your bets.
Will the Trump administration only be as criminally corrupt as Regan's was or will it reach all the way into Nixon territory?
Jimmy Carter is 93 years old. He is being kind, as 93 year olds tend to be.
I have to laugh at the "leave Trump alone " crowd that wraps themselves in self-righteousness.
He is the most dishonest, unethical , and ignorant (socially and factually) president we have EVER had.
People will be resisting him until the day he is no longer disgracing our highest office. Hopefully that will happen soon.
Lol, now Jimmy Carter is wrong because he's old??
Some folks have a rationalization for everything.
I thought the charge was collusion? or did it become obstruction? now we are down to dirty on finances!
Didn't even IMPLY that. Just trying to calm some of the liberal persuasion down lest they go all apoplectic when they realize this isn't anywhere close to collusion by Mr. Trump or his campaign.
And who is Maniford?
So if he laundered money for Russian crime organizations, aka Putin etc. , we should just forget about it? lol.
This all should have come out when he announced for president, but the media was fascinated by the circus and the increased ratings.
Well .... isn't that special?
That is some on the left for you. As long as you keep saying things they agree with you are OK and their friend. Say one little thing they don't like and they turn on you and throw you under the bus.
The truth is "special" to you? That's interesting.
Difference between you and i is ..... well ...... i like my truth to actually be the truth.
That said, i didn't know this seed was about me.
The special counsel has been given a broad mandate to investigate ALL things involved in "Russia's involvement in the 2016 election. I for one want just that. I want every bit of the Trump collusion narrative investigated as well as the Clinton funding of and the FBI's use of the Steele Dossier.
You see unlike democrats, I want a thorough, non partisan investigation
Morning B...
I did the same, I could not not vote - there were local issues, besides, I think voting for 'None of the Above' is a valid vote! If I had known about Evan McMullins I may have written him in ........................
Hope your day is a sweet one!
So true .. by the end of the day, things could be considerably different .. lieing to the FBI is a big NO NO .. if he had not plead guilty of lieing, perhaps lack of 'intent' would have save him from these charges ... Just joking!
Of course there is a lot of criticism for trump, what other President has rotated through a daily crises of his own making, Manafort may start to sing like a canary and the dominoes will all fall down.
Memories of Whitewater.
It is ONLY the first indictment, the dog and pony show is warming up.
LOL That is something else that works both ways. I've seen cons turn on people too.
In my opinion both parties SUCK and should both be abandon at this stage.
Go Independant and take the power back from both parties.
lol. I didnt say anything against Jimmy Carter. He's 93 years old. His days of making waves by criticizing people are over.
Sorry , the avatar is not me. I thought that was obvious to most people.
I knew some of ______ people were dirty. You could say that about every politician there is or pretty much ever was.
So.........
As I've said, if he's guilty of any or all those charges, he gets to pay his debt to society.
To be fair, the Investigation that brought Clinton grief was not about getting blow jobs in the Oval Office. It was something that was identified during other investigations.
Perhaps this is now one trump loyalist that wont be so loyal after all. Lets see where this leads shall we.
Speculation is always fun. Doesn't really man anything besides what you'd like to see. Remember speculating that Hillary would get elected and Trump wouldn't? So much for speculation.
Be on topic or be gone, John.
True Spike ... and perhaps there will be things discovered about the current President that will warrant charges outside of the scope of Trump colluding with Russia to sway the campaign in Trumps favor..
I am seeing a odd sense of JOY from individuals as though these charges are an AH HA! moment against the president - so far there is nothing ... think everyone and their hamster knew that Manaforte slithers through life as an opportunist [dude lit the candle in three places - got popped .. 5 years max and a fine for the conspiracy charges]
I am missing out on what makes this celebratory ... [sigh] Papadopoulos copping to lieing to the FBI is prob of more significance .. yet it is not an article all over the front page ... ArkansasHermit brought it to my attention earlier - so I went and did some reading.... rather interesting stuff!
That would be 3 years from the date of the first crime being prosecuted, right?
Nope, from the date the 1st crime was alleged to be committed.
That would depend. There is a trick that prosecutors do called a John Doe warrant. When they are investigating a crime, if they are about to exceed the statute, they can file for a John Doe (no name) warrant to keep the investigation going.
Very true Bruce, but that doesn't apply here since the indictment specifically names Manafort and Gates.
Actually, it was the Starr Investigation and it took him 5 years and cost $40 million in 1998 dollars.
Anyone want to give us an idea how much that is in 2017 dollars?
None of those charges are mutually exclusive and some of them may be connected.
There were NO indictments in the $40 million dollar, 5 year, Whitewater 'investigation'.
George Papadopoulos' guilty plea is ALL about the Trump campaign and collusion. Oh and BTW, collusion is only a part of Mueller's mandate. He is investigating Russia's interference in our election and is tasked to complete a report that will include HOW we keep them from doing it again.
One would presume that is the 1st crime being prosecuted...Sheesh.
About what?
BREAKING NEWS!
Tony Podesta stepping down...wonder why??
You do realize that some attention is being directed at some DemocRATS now??
The statute of limitations was about to run out on the Manafort "quest" so............it is something that happened almost three years (or whatever the correct time period) ago. Thus, since the investigation began. That was what Nowhere Man was talking about.There WAS no prosecution yet. Nice twist though. Probably succeeded convincing some people.
That's really kinda off-topic, I was trying to be fair to both sides of the discussion here.
Well, that would stand to reason. Who knows how many of the other 'charges' happened at or around the same time?
I did torture a friend or 2 by telling them that I was going to vote for Trump!
Alas .............................. I could not check the box! If my vote was mandatory - whew .. think I would have possibly chosen Trump ... depends, in a mandatory voting world would I go to jail for not voting for either (?)
[sigh] based on principle I think I would choose jail .. can I take my service dog to jail?
Just like Whitewater, totally non partisan.
first time I ever voted for a SCOTUS
But those that claim a partisan witch hunt conveniently forget we have been here before, perhaps this time it will bear fruit.
There are 12 counts total in the indictment: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principle, false and misleading Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) statements, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.
In other
BREAKING NEWS!
Tony Podesta stepping down...wonder why??
And none of it pertains to Trump.
There are generations of woman ready to have a woman president. It is time, great woman have lead / do lead nations - why not an American woman?
For me, H. was not that woman ..
I do believe I will live to see it happen though! [crosses fingers]
These 'behaviors' (I call them crimes) are 'fraudulent' (I say illegal) because they relate to Russia.
If a woman was the best candidate i would have zero problem voting for her.
And i agree, Hillary was not it.
Cool! fraudulent is criminal/illegal - behavior, you may have me there, guess it is not indicative of a crime!
You wanted an independent counsel, didn't you? That's what they do - they wander everywhere AND this one has a broader mandate than Ken Starr had
Yup, Mueller is looking at everything
But no collusion nor any mention of Trump.
You have such faith in the collusion myth
As an independant I dont care which party gets caught doing illegal shit. throw them all in jail. It makes my researching the next candidates easier anyway. Drain the swamp till its high and dry.
I thought it was all about collusion and obstruction of justice. These investigations are not going to end with a bang, but with a whimper. Appears to all have happened years ago before Trump decided to run.
If that were true, Mueller couldn't have gotten an indictment of Manafort and Gates.
Yes it could have. These "indictable offenses" seem to have happened WELL before 2016
False, the Special prosecutor statutes allow such to go anywhere and prosecute any crimes they may uncover against anyone discovered with the proper legal framework.
This is why we seldom see special prosecutors appointed, they are a revolver with three randomly placed rounds in the cylinder.
ie. you never really know when they are going to shoot and where they are going to hit....
Actually, this is pretty much par for the course with special prosecutors. They have to justify their existence, and the only way is to charge somebody with something. Regardless if there is any evidence of collusion, which I doubt will ever be proven, Mueller has now justified the investigation with an indictment. Never mind that the FBI has been investigating this for years.
Manafort is 68 years old. He is facing 12-15 years in prison. Will he accept this "life" sentence in order to protect Donald Trump? We live in interesting times.
Donald Trump is a known money launderer. If Mueller wants to do it, he can probably bring down the Trump presidency.
I have my doubts if he really wants to do that though.
Trump and Money Laundering : The Key Questions to Ask
Opinion Donald Trump . ... The fuss around the Trump administration’s links to Russia is becoming an instructive case study of how money laundering ... Newsweek ...
Bank that lent $300m to Trump linked to Russian money ...
Video embedded · The German bank that loaned $300m (£260m) to Donald Trump played a prominent role in a money laundering scandal run …
Trump is Russian Oligarch Money Launderer and new …
Mar 02, 2017 · Trump is Russian Oligarch Money Launderer and new Secty Commerce Wilbur Ross is the ... President Donald Trump has been forced to deny accusations that he is a ...
Robert Mueller's Donald Trump investigation hints at ...
Sep 10, 2017 · Special counsel Robert Mueller is obsessed with President Trump 's network of business interests for suspected money laundering as a critical focus of his ...
Donald Trump 's Casino Was Deficient in Anti- Laundering ...
Donald Trump 's Casino Was Deficient in Anti-Laundering Protections. ... and you’ll see that she never said the words “ money launderer ... — Donald J. Trump ...
Donald Trump ’s alleged Russian money launderer Wilbur Ross ...
Why did Trump need Wilbur Ross next to him when he gave the Syria order?
He's probably is as happy as the rest of us that Trump beat the hag. I wouldn't be surprised if he voted for him.
It's not that. It's that white collar crime usually goes unpunished. Trump's casino business paid fines connected to money laundering. There have been dozens of stories about his dirty business dealings, yet he was allowed to run for president.
Trump has been a crook all his life. It's pretty well known to people who take the time to read up on it.
That's nowhere near the save you wanted it to be, but nice try.
Very good !
Thanks, And I'd say more realistic that the first cartoon posted too.
Although a train wreck would have been more fitting.
If and when congress gets the huge tax breaks for the people who put them in power them they will turn on trump even more. Very few actually want to try to work with this man. I dont blame them. Insults, grandiose promises, intimidation and threats are his tools.
Of course you would. Rubber/glue thing
LOL I realized long ago this shit can usually be turned both ways....
As an independent.. I love doing it !!
Both parties SUCK !
I second that!
All insinuation, and no facts....ya don't even have to waste time reading links.
Because Wilbur Ross has the keys to the Cyprus Banks' restrooms.
Well, this investigation is starting out with a hell of a bang.
I think this is what they refer to when they say "you in a heap of trouble, boy," or the much shorter "you in deep sh!t." Manafort and Gates better cooperate if they ever want to see daylight again. None of these charges carry a light sentence and Mueller left it open to add more charges if he wants. No wonder trump wanted Sessions to do it, Mueller is very good at this kind of investigation and he is very tough. And trump was afraid of Comley's investigation.
Conspiracy against the United States. Being a unregistered agent of a foreign principle. False foreign registration. Pretty impressive. Gee, and he worked so closely with trump, too. Odd that trump wouldn't notice.
Cup of "Drain the Swamp" anyone? Not exactly what the trump had in mind when he said it, I'm sure.. I seem to recall him calling the investigation a witch hunt.
LMAO, starting out or winding down?
Seems it started quite a while ago.
I don't see these investigations ending in the very near future. They started quiet but they have a full head of steam now, and a few people they can squeeze more info out of. But even if they don't get anything else (but I think they will) it's good that this investigation cut off one arm of foreign government(s) with their fingers in OUR Government.
The indictment covers a period from 2005 to 2016. Wonder who he worked so closely with back in the day?
I think he was talking about a witch hunt regarding himself.
Who is Comley? Is there another special counsel only you know of? C'mon, spill the beans for the class.............
Oh no, I've been hit by a spelling Nazi. LOL gee, sorry about the misspelling, but as you couldn't figure out who I could possibly mean, I guess you'll have to spend the rest of your life trying to figure out who I meant.
Awww cute. Sorry to mess with your lack of sense of humor.
My advice to Manafort is to use the "Hillary Dumbass Defense"....."I don't recall"
C = Classified? How come I was not told this before I set up a private email server and lied to the FBI about never sending anything classified?
I do not even think if you and I used H.'s "I do not recall" defense .. that we could be cleared of charges based on our 'intent' .. do you?
Manaforte maybe could get away with it - yet I doubt it! Just saying! Perhaps a meeting on the tarmac with AG Sessions would work?
Morning Sunshine - it is not my intent to sound grouchy : )
lol....Good Morning to you too.
Manafort just needed a foundation to fund his lavish lifestyle, then Mueller would be okey dokey with that.
I know I may be in need of a bowl of milk, and the dude is a slime (he is guilty slap him with a fine [pocket change] and send him to a federal prison [with tennis courts ; )] for up to five years?)
There are statutes in play .. these charges leave a semi's length gap in the time line 2005 to 2016 - Yes I do believe that you are correct a foundation would have covered any corrupt behaviors like laundering money!
The unregistered foreign agent thingy sounds so cloak and daggar .. but it will get you a fine and no more than 10 years imprisoned
Here is the 'law'
Or her infamous "At this point, what does it matter?"
"What difference, at this point, does it make?" -H. Clinton
I do not know why I feel the need to correct individuals on H.'s most misquoted comment ..... but I do .. it is my bad!
I really like the Comey quote
I could be wrong - James Comey
Only liberals can get this excited about such "low hanging fruit"
And the indictment covers everything they can throw at him, which mostly in general covers everything they have so far, blanket charges, nothing specific yet... (and it isn't much)
Feels and reads like they are trying to gain a leveraged position over Manafort. Gates is the weak link. They are trying to turn Gates against Manafort in an effort to crack Manafort.
This so they can get at T-Rump.
A fishing expedition, which was time limited evidently, wait any longer, they lose the ability to use the leverage, which also means it isn't very strong....
Seen this shit before.....
Not exactly what Democrats were hoping for, eh?
Its only the beginning, dear. Patience.
I just think that at this point anything can happen. It's not a done deal. There has been such a concerted effort to ruin Pres. Trump and everything to do with him that I just don't know.
To tell you the truth......it scares me!
Not like anybody is yammering endlessly about a damn birth certificate or fake Benghazi story now, is there? This is real, and it IS scary. Especially because the very people who require no proof for anything and find fake scandals behind every Clinton door now want to pretend Trump is a victim and the proof is suddenly never enough?
WHAT PROOF?
Please, Please, point it out with specificity!
No one has yet.
What part of 'wait for the trial for the proof to come out' don't you understand? These first three indictments are only that - the first three, I'm pretty sure there will be a lot more to come. Follow the money. If Trump is so innocent, release those tax returns! Mueller will get them and eventually so will we. What is Trump hiding? And AGAIN, since when do YOU need proof? Its striking how unevenly you require it. PROOF IS ON THE WAY! Which is more than you are willing to give the rest of us when you push the Trump lies.
Wait for the trial? I guess the proof you wish and dream for hasn't been revealed yet, yet, you say it is there like you know it is...
Thank you for making my point.
Wishing and dreaming for something that you haven't received yet does not make such real and is no way the truth.....
Despite the assumptions prevalently espoused from one side....
Wish I could live in such a fantasy world like that.....
Did you forget how it all works? The proof was enough for grand jury indictments, why don't you let that marinate for a while. A guilty plea with cooperation (can't wait for that) and another possible squealer on the horizon. The trial of the first two will lay out the proof. Now about that fantasy world....
And you also know that the proof required for an indictment is very low and comes no where near what is necessary for a conviction.
That has to be the understatement of the decade.
Look where we are today. Two people were indicted. We knew this was coming based on Manafort's history of working with foreign governments like the Ukraine. That activity took place long before the 3 months that Manafort was with the Trump campaign. Both men are being charged with a long list of crimes, including conspiracy to defraud, conspiracy to launder money and failure to register as foreign agents. Mueller's team is looking to prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. Another volunteer to the campaign is supposedly working on a plea deal with investigators. MSNBC had a team stationed outside the courthouse in Washington DC all day as host Brooke Baldwin tried to restrain her guests from saying this leads directly to the President and here we are on this site discussing not the expected indictments, but Donald Trump. Yup, I'd say the left has been very tenacious. All they need now is something on Trump!
One question:
Even in Manafort's case - where was the collusion charge?
I just read an interesting Daily Caller opinion. Mueller had to come with something, so, the probe extended to his activities before Trump. Also, the collusion between Mueller and Comey pertaining to the Clintons. There is a money trail between Clinton and Russia.
Possibly the collusion charge is covered in the "conspiracy against the U.S." especially in combination with the charge of "Being a unregistered agent of a foreign principle" which may be even a worse charge especially when you deliberately lie to conceal it by filing false foreign registration statements.
I don't think it'd be too far of the mark to say these two (at least at this time just two) could be called Russian spies and probably weren't too concerned about "making America Great Again" and were kinda pulling for the other direction.
Yup, He did and it had nothing to do with Trump or collusion
Nope these were unrelated charges. The manner in which Manafort has been pursued indicates they are trying to squeeze him to "flip". The problem is there is nothing Manafort can give them.
Mueller will find out if they know anything, they better, if they don't then no deals and they're going down alone. Well, maybe not alone, this isn't the only investigation Mueller has going.
Don't know if they're going down. They do have a trial and they have been way over charged
Thats right! The only opiniated nonsense you will accept as fact is liberal opinionated nonsense. Then it is absolutely true for yiu regardles of how whacked out it is.
We, as a country, survived Watergate, we will survive this as well, the difference between Watergate and, Russiagate is this involves another country, Russia, how deep does this go, that is the question that we all must ask, if it goes all the way to the Oval Office then we do have a problem, if it goes all the way to the Russians being able to change election results then we really have a problem.
If it goes as far as any of them Obama, T-Rump or Clinton colluding with foreign nationals then yeah we have some serious political problems
AND,
If it goes to the point where a foreign power actually did quantitatively effect an election for president we have a damned serious problem no matter who won or lost.
That is the real issue and there is evidence potentially swinging both ways.....
Only one of the people mentioned in your post is being investigated by Mueller, that would be Trump, Obama is currently serving jury duty in his home state, Clinton is signing books in a store today, the only one concerned with Manafort and, Gates being indicted is Trump. Of course, they both worked for the Trump campaign, they did not work for Obama or, Clinton so, how you put them in with the two Democrats is any ones guess.
Link please.......Show us where Trump is under investigation
I don't believe I said that Trump himself is being investigated, I said his campaign is being investigated, two very different things. Are you worried about your hero?
You only have to look back at your own words:
"Only one of the people mentioned in your post is being investigated by Mueller, that would be Trump,"
You did
That's gonna leave a mark............as for
NO evidence or talk of that whatsoever so I guess we MAY MAY have half of a problem. Magic Eight ball says "Not Likely"
Can you tell me Vic, when did Manafort or, Gates work for the Clinton campaign or, the Obama White House? These are the people that had direct contact with Trump during the campaign. It was Trumps campaign that was trying to get "dirt" on Hillary, from the Russians, that is collusion, Manafort and, Gates have been indicted on money laundering AND, collusion charges, now, since Trump Jr., Eric Trump and, Kushner were involved in the meeting with a Russian operative and, the company that they used to gather information on their opponents, ie, Hillary, was connected to WikiLeaks, with a known connection to Putin, it does put Trump in the middle of all of this, ala Nixon.
Yep, my Dad believed the same thing about Nixon all the way up to the time he waved goodbye at the helicopter.
You did say Trump!
Btw, youv'e done it again:
"Manafort and, Gates have been indicted on money laundering AND, collusion charges"
Link please on those "collusion charges"
And your not looking at the big picture, there are several investigations going on and taking different approaches.
Manafort is tied to Podesta and Russia, Hillary and Russia, and the DNC and Russia. Obama was on record with the FBI, the Trump Dossier and informing the Hillary Campaign of Trump/Russia issues during her campaign shortly after the DNC e-mails were released.
It's all three of them and their individual cronies. What concerns me most, is the ideal that Obama was using the FBI to aid a political campaign for his office. there is no direct evidence of that yet, but a whole lot of evidence pointing to it.
And he has already been caught doing exactly that with the IRS and HHS against his political enemies.
So yes, this special prosecutor, IF he does his job correctly, should nail all three of them if there are things to be nailed for......
At the least expose the corruption of the political establishment...
A good house cleaning is in order.
And let the chips fall where they may....
The only liberal on the site who I have seen make the same statement isn't posting on these articles anymore......
If the allegations are true for any of them I would be more than willing to pull the lever on the hangman's gallows. And he would also....
This isn't about one party over the other, it cuts to the core of this nations freedom.....
What is sad, is people don't seem to realize it...
It may be true that the Trump campaign was trying to get "dirt" on Hillary - It is absolutely true that the Clinton campaign PAID for "dirt on Trump - and they bought it from "the Russians"
how so?
I'm sure this wonderful country will survive this, but if nothing else we really need to work out a system to ensure that votes can't be tampered with. I hate to say it, but we may be trading in voter security for the speed and convenience of using computers. I was kind of hoping that someone or some Government agency would be hot to address this issue.
Oh yeah, got somewhat side tracked by trump's mad search for 3 million votes by illegal aliens and dead people.
So tell me where were votes tampered with. How was it done and by who? Hard evidence from a reliable source.
Patience. Mueller is meticulously building cases. If Trump is hiding something, Mueller will find out. If Trump is pure as the driven snow, he will come out just fine. Just because Trump hasn't been told he is under investigation doesn't mean he won't get caught in the web if he's done something illegal. We all know how to find that - follow the money! And they will. Its only been a few months, FFS, give the guy time, there is a lot to go through!
There is no cause for celebration...we're watching American's who have been charged with serious criminal activity. How far reaching is the news of today, no one on this forum knows
Do people hate Trump, yes....do people hate Clinton, yes. Should ALL American's seek truth - Absolutely!
that is all anyone wants is the truth
shall we call this ManafortGate?
Nah, I still like Russiagate, since that is were most of the players have their loyalty.
Mueller is good with the left now.
He won't be if he doesn't find anything on Trump. Then he will be bad.
Such is the way a liberal dimwitted mind works.
Yup, as he turns now to Tony Podesta, the love affair may be very brief.
I am having a lot of fun listening to CNN today. Jack Tapper just started his silly show "the lead" by saying there was "Seizemic" breaking news! The legal panel is huddle around Tapper with Jeff Toobin saying these men are in terrible, terrible trouble!
Lol, I guess they have but one recourse - to claim "Trump did it"
When the panels come on I leave the building!
I don't like it a bit. Political bullying! Pres. Trump has been bullied since he won the election. Protests have been paid for (Daily Caller), and now, this sick protesting with screaming on Nov. 8th. It is sick....do you hear me....sick!
You tell them ingrates, magnoliaave!
The best of the best.........
LOL