Roy Moore response shows GOP deserves to die: Max Boot
This is the sorry culmination of two trends that have disfigured the conservative movement: contempt for the facts and desire to win at all costs.
You may have thought that Republicans had sunk as low as they could possibly go last year when they nominated for the presidency a man who was singularly unfit, morally and mentally, for that post. But, no, once you start racing to the bottom you never quite stop. There is always another level of degeneracy to be plumbed.
Enter Roy Moore, the Republican Senate candidate in Alabama. He believes that “homosexual conduct should be illegal” and that Muslims should not be permitted to serve in Congress. Now the Washington Post reports that this fearless crusader for “traditional values” had a habit of propositioning underage girls.
In one case in 1979, when he was a 32-year-old assistant district attorney, the Post reports, Moore allegedly offered to watch a “little girl” outside a courthouse for her mother. He subsequently took advantage of this entree to kiss and fondle this 14-year-old after undressing both of them down to their underwear. The statute of limitations has expired on this sordid episode, but under Alabama law it would constitute sexual abuse in the second degree and be punishable by up to a year in prison.
Under common morality, of the kind that Moore claims to champion, his conduct is simply vile. You don’t have to be the parent of teenage girls — which I am — to be deeply disgusted. Yet he is utterly unrepentant. Moore simply waves off the allegations, claiming, “This garbage is the very definition of fake news and intentional defamation.”
On his Twitter feed he has the gall to write, “Our children and grandchildren’s futures are on the line. So rest assured — I will NEVER GIVE UP the fight!” He even has the audacity to send a fundraising appeal to his supporters claiming that the Post article is evidence that “the forces of evil are on the march in our country,” and asking for a donation to fight the “Clinton-Obama machine.”
So far, much to their eternal discredit, Moore’s Republican backers in Alabama appear to be sticking by him. Paul Reynolds, the Republican national committee man from Alabama, told The Hill that he doesn’t trust The Washington Post : “If I’ve got a choice of putting my welfare into the hands of Putin or The Washington Post , Putin wins every time .” State auditor Jim Ziegler is willing to admit the charges are true, but he doesn’t care. He cited the Biblical story of Mary and Joseph — “ Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus”— and concluded, “There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”
Republicans in Washington are slightly less gung-ho for Roy Moore, but that doesn’t mean they are willing to do the right thing—which is to call on him to leave the race immediately and endorse his Democratic opponent if he doesn’t. President Trump’s mealy-mouthed statement, delivered via his press secretary, speaks volumes: “The president believes we cannot allow a mere allegation, in this case one from many years ago, to destroy a person’s life. However, the president also believes that if these allegations are true , Judge Moore will do the right thing and step aside."
The key words here, echoed by Republican senators, are “if these allegations are true.” Well, of course, no one wants to see anyone punished for false allegations. But how is their truth or falsity to be established? It is too late for a court case, unless Moore is foolish enough to sue The Washington Post for libel — and that would take years to resolve. The Post account is full of detailed corroboration from 30 people, including the victims, who spoke on the record. Moore offers vague denials and non-sequiturs about how he is supposedly a devoted family man.
By treating this as a “mere allegation … from many years ago,” the Republican establishment is in effect giving Moore a pass — just as they gave Trump a pass after he confessed on videotape to sexual assault. So far only a few honorable Republicans, including Mitt Romney , John McCain and John Kasich , recognize that the presumption of innocence applies to criminal defendants, not political candidates.
This episode is the sorry culmination of two trends that have disfigured the conservative movement beyond all recognition: contempt for the facts and desire to win at all costs. Republicans are increasingly reliant on “alternative facts” manufactured by the likes of Fox News and Breitbart, which claim that global warming isn’t real and neither is the Russian hack of the Democratic National Committee. The real scandal, they tell us, is the Steele dossier paid for by the Democrats in an attempt to uncover Trump’s Russian connections. Or is it the evidence-free claim that Obama supposedly wiretapped Trump?
I n the final analysis, no indictment of their candidate will convince the faithful. As Trump once said, “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.” Or, more to the point, Roy Moore could molest a 14-year-old girl and not lose votes. Because for Republican partisans, their opponents are “the forces of evil,” and anything is preferable to that. Even Donald Trump. Even Roy Moore. So in ostensibly fighting evil, Republicans have become complicit in it.
This is a party that does not deserve to survive.
Max Boot, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors, is author of the forthcoming book The Road Not Taken: Edward Lansdale and the American Tragedy in Vietnam .
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/11/10/roy-moore-response-shows-gop-doesnt-deserve-survive-max-boot-column/851640001/
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
Oh, brother, you must have forgotten all the times democrats got it during elections. The damn whining is just pathetic. Read it and give it up and just admit you don't give a crap if this guy tried to harass a 14yr old. Comment removed for CoC violation [ph] We really don't care if you want to vote for people like this, just don't try to pretend you aren't. Own your shit. You don't care about perverts and abusers unless you can use them for furthering your own goals. We've got it. Here is a list of all kinds of sex scandals.
character assassinations of good people
I just can't even.
Read it and give it up and just admit you don't give a crap if this guy tried to harass a 14yr old. I'm sure your daughter or granddaughter will oblige some old fart and let you know how it feels. . . You don't care about perverts and abusers unless you can use them for furthering your own goals.
Flagged for this. This kind of thing is uncalled for. It's despicable and there's not justification for it.
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You will never convince a conspiracy theorist with facts. Or with anything at all. Sad, but true.
True but, I can post the facts for everyone else to see, ya never know, someone might believe the conspiracy.
Interesting way to censor.
I wasn't trying to censor you. My intent was that 1) You would be corrected and/or disciplined and 2) Your dreadful contribution would have a bright light shone on it. Both happened, so I am satisfied.
Your suggestion that anyone here would condone the molestation of a minor is beyond the pale.
So far Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Bill Cosby and Roy Moore all deny they did anything illegal.......but the only one a RWNJ believes is Moore.
Some of the RW comments here are funny too......apparently they're unaware that the author of the seeded article is a conservative.
Where this conservative is concerned.....you are wrong.
I do not believe every person coming out 20, 30, 40 years after the fact and ruining a family, reputation, etc. is appropriate. Notice, please, they manage to stick it out alright while they are getting their fair share.
I do not believe every person coming out 20, 30, 40 years after the fact and ruining a family, reputation, etc. is appropriate.
LOL. Why should any victim of sexual assault or sexual molestation be quiet.......much less stay silent to "preserve the reputation" of the perp?
.
Notice, please, they manage to stick it out alright while they are getting their fair share.
I have no clue what you meant by that. Please explain.
At fifteen I was part of a school/work program and can unequivocally tell you not everyone who has been sexually harassed felt embolden at the time to "tell". Now at 61 years of age, if the same boss decided to run for an elected position, taking his moral high ground, I'd be singing like a canary! I remember every detail; the scary part, the flattering part. As an adult I'm disgusted at the flattering part I felt at the time, it was a disgusting use of power over me...an adult taking advantage of a child or teenager for that matter is NEVER appropriate. Not ever.
Truth, that's really the issue. Is the woman who described her encounters telling the truth, did the other teens really date Mr. Moore? Would I be telling the truth if I determined to come forward all these years later? There is no litmus test that will suffice.
I find looking at who has something to be gained or loss helps to weave the tapestry toward truth.
If my step-daughter told me 10, 20, 30, 40, etc. after an incident...would I believe her? Absolutely.
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I would like to take this oppertunity to congratulate Senator Moore on his upcoming ass kicking of yet another libturd! Congratulations Mr. Moore!
You verify the truth of the seeded article. Your ideology deserves to die, as it is a plague on this nation. America has to rid itself of ignorance that is the major byproduct of right wing media.
This tragedy increases every day, as we now see with this Roy Moore episode.
You verify the truth of the seeded article. Your ideology deserves to die, as it is a plague on this nation. America has to rid itself of ignorance that is the major byproduct of right wing media.
You verify the truth of the seeded article. Your ideology deserves to die, as it is a plague on this nation. America has to rid itself of ignorance that is the major byproduct of left wing media.
This tragedy increases every day....
Fixed it for ya....
And yes it is sad isn't it.....
Democrats and "liberals" do not live in the state of denial that the right does. Now they are defending someone who admits that he "dated" high school girls when he was a state prosecutor and 32 years old. But he never dated them without "their mother's permission" lol.
Hannity asked him if he ever "dated" the 14 year old. Moore cannot remember if he 'dated' teenage girls, saying it wasnt his general practice. How would someone not remember whether or not as a 32 year old he 'dated' a 16 or 17 year old high school girl? It is absurd on the face of it.
Why?
Look, you know I don't like Mitt Romney, I think his politics are too far to the right for me but, even he says Moore should step down.
I don't like Mitt Romney either
But the fact is, just because someone makes and allegation, does not mean you are automatically guilty.
In Liberal land it does.
What ever did happen to those women that made claims against Herman Cain anyway !
Actually, you are guilty, to a Liberal, if you aren’t THEIR candidate. Otherwise, the accuser is lying. Right now, there is too much fog and not enough clarity to say who is telling the truth here.
Roy Moore has not given good responses. His responses show a consciousness of guilt.
He was asked if he dated high school girls as a 32 year old and he said it would not have been his general practice. He acted as if he could not remember if he had dated high school girls when he was 32, which is absurd. Consciousness of guilt is normally a major indication of guilt.
Fact:
Liberals rally around Blowjob Bill. Bill was the GREATEST.....EVER, and actually was involved in the deed....unless you take "IS" into account !
Republicans are accused .....GUILTY is the only verdict !
Glory Allred is the Liberal hero ! She'll be showing her face soon !
Parts of his interview with Hannity did make me laugh.
The way he just couldn't remember chasing young school girls but did remember things like "She was a GOOD Girl" so she wouldn't be drinking at 18 with me. lol
I think the part where he clears himself of wrong doing by being adamant that he only dated the underage girls that got permission from their mommies to go out with the "creepy older man" hanging around the school yard.
.
You really can't see the difference between oral sex from a consenting grown woman and a grown man groping a minor teen?
I see some people coming out and making a complaint.....after 38 Friggin years...... makes one unbelievable, and just politics as usual.
It's like the Hollywood Accusers now. Did they not complain as long as they were still making their millions of dollars, and now that money things have dried up....they are ready to confess ?
Riddle me this:
What happened to ALL the Herman Cain Accusers Glory Allred dragged out.
Are they living lavish lives now ? I haven't seen a court date yet....have YOU ?
If we werent gripped by insanity in this country, that interview alone should cause him to drop out.
He is obviously hiding the truth.
Confess to what? What did they do wrong?
This is not the first time someone has accused Harvey Weinstein of misbehavior. Courtney Love put it out there years ago. Nobody believed her.
Which brings us to the whys.
A lot of people don't believe them, even with corroborating witnesses (although some of those folks are keen to believe any accusation against someone of a different political persuasion). And these were men in positions of power. Harvey Weinstein could make or break an actress's career. Moore was an assistant DA - to a teen girl, he would have been in a position of authority. These women knew they were facing an uphill battle.
50 years from now, when both the Clintons are pushing up daisies, the right wing dingbats will STILL be whining about Bill'sd blowjob!
And they still won't understand the difference between consensual and nonconsensual, or legally unable to give consent.
"Proclaim" (after millions of dollars earned).....halleluiah moments (after 38 YEARS).....sound better ?
"These women knew they were facing an uphill battle."
To put up with that which they accuse.....tells me.....IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY !
"When you please others in hopes of being accepted, you lose your self-worth in the process."
Dave Pelzer
I'm not aware that Moore's accuser has made millions, and certainly not as a result of Moore's influence. Are you? Would millions of dollars negate molestation, anyway? Sounds like a plug for forced prostitution, so long as the victim gets paid.
Most of Harvey Weinstein's victims haven't been acting for 38 years, so no, they're not coming forward after 38 years.
There were a few ......... (dot,dot,dot's) between my comment on millions and 38 years.
There was a reason for that.
Don't forget about his actual "Love Child" flights Bill took.
"Dismissing serious allegations against someone you support or like is Wrong Wrong Wrong!"
Agreed....but Allred types have made things like this out to be a circus straight from the political handbook.
And his accusers stated, under oath, that he didn't. Multiple times.
At least she was above the age of consent and, consented, not like the 14 year old girl who Roy Moore molested.
Was she an adult?
Yes.
Did she, according to her own admission, pursue him?
Yes.
He committed adultery. It was stupid, but it wasn't nonconsensual. It wasn't criminal.
You might try full sentences to convey your thoughts.
And it still sounds like support for forced prostitution, so long as the victims get paid.
No need !
"And it still sounds like support for forced prostitution, so long as the victims get paid."
That's exactly what I said......../s
Now what are your thoughts about someone that waits 38 years to say something, after waiting to see if others come out about other people, and what are your thoughts about those that will put up with so-called abuse while making millions of dollars, yet wait until it seems like the "In Thing" to do at this time.
Then don't complain when your thoughts are not well-expressed.
He said he didn’t molest anybody and, according to what the (now 52 year old) woman said, he didn’t actually do anything. She said she told him to take her home and he did. If it had been Bill Clinton, he would have probably raped her like Juanita Broaddrick, laughed, and told her that if she wants to get home by daybreak, then she’d better start running.
There is nothing except Juannita's own words to prove Clinton raped her, she never went to the hospital to get checked out, her husband was abusive from all accounts, she admits she was at the hotel with another man who was her lover at the time and, is her husband now, yep, she's real reliable.
However, what Moore is alleged to have done with the 14 year old, even if he didn't have sex with her is enough to convict any other man of pedophilia and, statutory rape.
And all you have here are somebody’s “own words” to say that Moore molested her.
I would rather believe someone who was 14 at the time that it happened than someone who might have gotten drunk at a conference and, slept with the wrong man and, I'd rather believe the 14 year old witness over some judge that puts his religion and, his political beliefs over the needs of the people in his court. He discredited himself when he put the 10 commandments at the entrance to his court house, which goes against the Constitution, he's discredited himself in other areas as well, I can see him doing this with a 14 year old when he was 32, he is a sick fuck and, needs to be taken out of the race.
When did I complain about my own thoughts ?
I don’t believe the allegation any more than I do the denial. If it happened, then she had an opportunity to say something a long time ago. She didn’t and that’s her choice. Too late now.
Disagreeing with the left is not a crime and we’ll be a virtue in Alabama. I think he should tell everybody to kiss his ass and keep running.
And the ones that have accused Republican types, never make it to "Under Oath". They just disappear after they're ..... or Gloria Allred .....are finished with the real objectives.
And let's not forget the use of underage prostitutes in the Washington, Adams, and Jefferson administrations!!!
You do? Please post a link to the complaint, I'd love to read it.
Wow, you are really in the know! Please link to the windfall that the accusers against Moore. I hadn't heard anything about them being so well off.
You must have missed that Cain admitted that they were paid off.
They accepted a pay off from the company. I doubt that they are living lavishly on $40,000 payoffs from decades ago.
As long as you don't forget this:
Or this:
Allegations and innuendo are just as good as facts right?
Apparently he thinks that sexually molesting underage girls id perfectly fine if their mother approves. (but as far as I know-- it still illegal in many states).
Actually "shoulds" and "what Bill Clinton did" ultimately doesn't matter. And to a large degree, whether Moore himself did what he's accused of or not ultimately doesn't matter.
Because he will be judged "in the court of public opinion". (What people think about this whole story).
And while that won't impose any legal penalties on him, and might well be considered unfair . . . this entire brouhaha is a great gift to the Democratic party in the next election.
Juanita Broaddrick, for one, recanted her affidavit and reasserted that he raped her.
About that,
Actually, regardless of her consent it was the epitome of Sexual Harassment, which due to Bill Clinton holding a position of power over her abused.
Would anyone like a cigar?
In short, she committed perjury.
The affidavit was under oath, her TV interview wasn't.
You insist that we believe someone who is a proven liar, one way or another.
Only if he had pursued her, which isn't how it happened.
Her job was not contingent on her providing sexual favors.
The "epitome of sexual harassment" would be him telling her she had to get on her knees, or lose her job, or him making advances on her. He didn't, and she pursued him.
Good grief, what qualifies as "anything" to you? Taking her clothes off and making her touch his penis isn't "anything"?
Since Bill was, himself, impeached for perjury then I guess it’s one proven liar’s word against another.
She said she didn’t touch it. But there’s no proof that any of this ever happened.
Well, I'm not quite sure. Did Dennis Hastert's victims have to testify? Or was his own admission sufficient?
You didn't bother to read the links, I see.
Actually, it seems you didn't read the links. From your second link:
Lewinsky specifically said she was "earning her Presidential kneepads". Clinton's conduct was not unwelcome.
That might be the epitome but less might do. So if he had sat down, opened his pants, and cast his eyes from her to his crotch a couple of times until she dropped to her knees, would that be OK? They both knew that giving head would get her ahead.
I really think that if that happened to me.....I would just bite it off!
I think I'd try to tattoo my name on it with blows from the heel of my shoe and give him something to remember.
BS. If the claims are true then Moore committed both sexual molestation of a minor and child enticement.
No way.
Unfortunately for you and the hang em high crowd, you can’t prove he’s guilty of anything. He should say WAPO is part of the Jones campaign and treat it like any other campaign attack.
The young intern's supervisor, in her chain of command. No one that believes in equality and fairness would ever defend a boss in this situation.
AT least she was above age? To be seduced by her boss? In the workplace? That works for you?
Still not sexual harassment by Clinton, let alone sexual assault. Nobody was underage. Nobody withheld or was unable to legally give consent. Nobody made unwanted sexual advances.
Putting words in my mouth is dishonest. I never said he didn't have any power over her. I said she pursued him. He stupidly allowed himself to be caught. But the "lowly intern" knew exactly what she wanted, and she went after it. She wasn't underage, and she wasn't pressured.
Ascribing views to me that I do not hold is also dishonest.
She wasn't seduced. She set out to seduce him.
E.A .....
Breaking News
McConnell Asks Moore to Quit; Says ‘I Believe the Women’
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG 30 minutes ago
Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, said that Roy S. Moore, the Republican Senate candidate in Alabama, “should step aside.”
The accusations of improper sexual conduct against Mr. Moore have upended a race in a state that has not elected a Democratic senator in 20 years.
E.A :-) I Just tossed that in the " Salad " of a Chat, after all when an " Opinion " .. " How can my OPINION be dishonest? " Can be used as fodder, and Moral Decay as a " Benefit to Humanity " what more can be " stirred in the sewer " that is all I ask and note: it is just MHO
After reading this article someone should be complaining about fake news being posted on NT - this is a broad stroke of the brush hit piece with unproven content sold as fact..
There is an avalanche of sexual misconduct and assault claims/accusations at this time - remains to be seen how many are found to be true. 38 years later, the man was national news during the election that just took place - and still NO one came forward? What changed in the past couple weeks?
My opinion of Moore is not good, nothing about his politics or belief system matches mine........ yet it appears that others are counting on accusations to take down yet another man. I am thankful not to be a man at this juncture in history - an accusation can ruin their lives, even after being proven innocent .. the damage has been done!
Did you read about false reporting of hate crimes being on the rise?
Actually, it's 'being sold' as OPINION, hence the link states ' opinion /2017/11/10/, written by Max Boot, Opinion columnist.
no truer words ever spoken!
Hello mag ... it is frustrating, these accusations are flying around everywhere .. opinion pieces like this written to be parroted, hard to know what to believe any longer ... facts, no facts, does not matter once it is out there, the speculation never goes away.
Hope your weekend is going well. : )
hi.....going pretty good. Hope yours is, as well.
Imagine it is the year 1987, and someone tells you that in thirty years one political party will be openly admitting that their candidates molest kids but they will vote for them anyways. It is a shock where we have ended up.
Yeah, its amazing what happens to standards once it became acceptable for the President to diddle a 20 year old intern in the oval office.
Yep, it's not like the Speaker of the House at the time was screwing his secretary or, anything......oh wait.
I'm interested in those evangelical moral standards. Can somebody explain? The moral code is lying, sexual harassment, incivility, assholiness and racism. They are proud about it. Where is that whole Jesus thing in those behaviors?
Exactly, my point. "The President can commit perjury and have an affair with a 20 year old intern because someone else had an affair." Once the President is held to the lowest possible standard, Trump becomes possible.
I don't know why some evangelicals and share moral standards with liberals. It's interesting.
Yeah, its amazing what happens to standards once it became acceptable for the President to diddle a 20 year old intern in the oval office.
Why does Bill Clinton’s sex life so enrage the right? He liked sex, that’s his business. JFK messed around more in a single week that Bill Clinton did in his entire time in office. None of that is germane in a discussion about pedophile behavior.
What a great new term!
Not my point, the point is Newt Gingrich had an affair with his secretary and, saw nothing wrong with THAT while he was trying to impeach Clinton for the exact same thing.
Ah yes, stage 5 of the Clinton scandal handling plan. When all the lies have been exposed just claim "move on" and pretend it never happened. Maybe this is too complicated for you, but Clinton's actions and trump's for that matter, don't happen in a bubble. They have a long lasting effect on the mores and standards of behavior of the country. With the Dmeocrat's embrace of CLinton despute the allegations of rape and the slut shaming of his victims, it set the precedent for presidential behavior. Precedent matters in a society, it always does and always will.
He liked sex, that’s his business.
Perfect example of fake news. The allegation is rape and perjury, so liberals who love fake news just claim it's about sex to make it more palatable to their simple minded followers.
As for Kennedy, the public didn't know about Kennedy's predilection for hookers while he was alive. He was portrayed by a friendly media as the perfect family man. If his actions were public knowledge, what do you think would have happened?
It's not Bills consensual sexcapades that are the equivalent here. It's the non consensual ones he allegedly had and that Hillary tried to cover up.
So, are you saying that we should just accept a pedophile into the halls of Congress?
No, even though liberals embraced an accused rapist as President, we should not accept a pedophile into Congress.
The point is those who defended Bill Clinton have no standing to attack Moore or his supporters. You should first figure out why you were so willing to defend a rapist and slut shame the victims of his assault before throwing stones at others.
I've bolded the key word in your sentence, nothing was ever proved and, none of it came out until he was in the White House and, because none of it could be proved he couldn't be removed from office so, get over it. What we are discussing here is whether or, not a currently accused pedophile who is currently running for Congress should stay in the race, you should hear what Mitt Romney thinks about it.
ingrich had an affair with his secretary and, saw nothing wrong with THAT while he was trying to impeach Clinton for the exact same thing.
What are you talking about? You just said it's okay that Clinton perjured himself because Gingrich was having an affair that wasn't public knowledge. Perjury is not the same thing as an affair.
Ah yes, stage 5 of the Clinton scandal handling plan.
Twenty years from now you will still be prattling on about the Clintons. My guess is that by then you will be accusing anyone who isn’t interested in dragging the Clintons into every political conversation of engaging in stage 17 of the Clinton scandal handling plan.
Unproven accusations are the allegations you are talking about. If you want to claim you also believe the Clintons should have dropped out as well at the very first accusations, than you'd still be wrong but at least consistent.
As far as Loser Mitt goes he needs to head off to the retirement home for failed politicians along with John Edwards, Mike Dukakis and Hillary Clinton. He's had egg on his face from the time he lectured Trump on racism then watched as Trump did better with minority voters than he did.
And you will still be ignoring allegations of rape because when they are politically inconvenient.
And how seriously did you take Anita Hill?
The democrats accept a pedophile in the white house cabinet.
Who and, when, please provide a link of not only the story but, of the conviction for pedophilia.
Deleted for skirting. D
When did Clinton have sex with a child????
Neil Goldschmidt clintons Secratary of transportation, governor of Oregon and Portland mayor. He was never convicted because he and the head of the Oregon democrat party and a subsequent governor managed to keep it under wraps until the statute if limitations ran out. He also paid his victim to keep her mouth shut. Link
Jealousy is, indeed, a big part of the outrage. Most right wingers don't get blowjobs; their wives save that for the black guy down the street!
Now? Who said I wasn't before? Or are you implying liberals aren't spiritual? I can't stand that sanctimonious moralizing from a group of people who have the morals of pond scum. Its like some people will believe anything said, actions be damned. As long as you say it, nothing more required. Well, I call bullshit on that fake piety. Nothing coming out of those people is remotely Jesusy. Nothing. Including their continued chokehold on female fertility.
Wow!
If that simple sentence means what its words should mean (I'm never sure how some people abuse words)... then...
I agree with Sean Tracy!
Who is more embarrassed, do you think, Sean? You or I?
Are you speaking from personal experience and from which perspective?
I voted this post up because, this is something I didn't know about and, it seems to be a credible source, however, I didn't see in there were the Clinton's knew anything about it, if they did then Bill should have gotten rid of him and, exposed him.
Actually, since 1987 is the benchmark, that year the POTUS got away with selling weapons to Iran, a sanctioned nation, so he could send the proceeds to ANOTHER sanctioned nation. That POTUS is held up as the GOPs standard of excellence.
Got away with?
Youve been parsing words all morning. This is for you:
John Poindexter, along with Oliver North and many others, went behind President Reagan's back and sold weapons to the Iranians (illegally), then took the money they made and funneled it to the brutal "Contra" army that they built in Central America (also illegally) - John Poindexter said so!
Well, if he was actually convicted or if he admitted guilt. We have a standard here in the U.S. that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Neither of these things has happened, and yet, you are willing to assassinate his character.
It's important because Bill Clinton was a known sexual predator and abuser, who likes very young women.
That’s the point. WAPO supports Jones. They deliberately went out looking for dirt on Moore (and only Moore). In that sense, they acted like the research arm of the Jones camp to run what is essentially a negative ad campaign against Moore under the guise of an unbiased news article.
What year did Ted Kennedy allow a woman to drown to protect his ass! It goes on and on!
Now there’s an interesting incident. In 1969, Kennedy (a married man) snuck away from a party with a young woman to drive to a secluded beach. Somehow, Kennedy lost control of the car (some speculate that he was getting his peace pipe smoked) and drove into a pond. Kennedy saved himself and claims to have later gone back in for her. Long story short, she died and Kennedy didn’t report it for 10 hours. He got a suspended sentence for leaving the scene of a crime but Democrats were generally ok with the philandering, lying, foot-dragging, irresponsible actions of their senator. The fact that someone died was just one of those “shit happens” moments.
Boot isn't wrong. It's simply not acceptable for Republicans to act like Democrats and value wining at all costs. One party has to have some sort of ethics, and when Republicans decide that winning is all that matters, they are acting no better than the party who blindly supported the lies and sexual assaults of the Clintons the last 30 years.
Sean.
1. Do Moore's statements to Hannity strike you as indicative of his innocence?
2. Should he drop out of the race?
1. No.
2. Yes.
Yep, it's not like any Republican ever decided to win at any cost, even though they were doing the same thing they accused the Democrats of doing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=george+w.+bush%2c+iraq%2c+no+weapons+of+mass+destruction&qpvt=George+W.+Bush%2c+Iraq%2c+no+weapons+of+mass+distruction&FORM=VDRE
You complain about sources and you bring HuffPo? Really?
This seed is about a conservative saying the Republican Party needs to come to an end. They believe in fake news and alternate realities. The Roy Moore case is just the latest example.
I guess next you'll do a seed about Donna Brazile saying the way the DNC does business needs to come to end?
Here's the problem many, including myself, have with seeing Democrats acting outraged about Judge Moore. This is from MSNBC's Chris Hayes, an impeccable woke liberal:
As gross and cynical and hypocrtical as the right's "what about Bill Clinton" stuff is, it's also true that Democrats and the center left are overdue for a real reckoning with the allegations against him.
Read this account, in light of all we've been hearing and reading this last month, and ask yourself if it's credible.
It's simply jaw dropping to watching Democrats who've ignored a credible allegation of rape and spent 30 years attacking assault victims, suddenly run with a victim's story because it suits their political agenda. I understand why, even If I don't agree with them, some Republicans want to stick by Moore. They've been outraged at how the liberals protected and defended the Clintons for 30 years and don't want to reward the liberals shameful hypocrisy.
There seems to be more to the story:
Roy Moore accuser worked for Clinton campaign as interpreter, reports say
Prominent GOP lawmakers call on Republican candidate for Alabama Senate to quit race if allegations are true.
One of the women accusing Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore of sexual impropriety reportedly worked as a sign language interpreter for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, a new report claims.
Deborah Wesson Gibson, who told The Washington Post that she briefly dated Moore when she was 17 and he was 34, founded the language interpreting company, Signs of Excellence, and has worked for a number of democratic campaigns, according to Alabama Local News.
The company’s Facebook page shows Gibson working for and posing with several Democrats at political rallies including 2016 presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, former Vice President Joe Biden, former Sen. Patrick Murphy, D-Fla., and Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla.
In the expose published by The Washington Post, Gibson said she first met Moore in 1981 when he spoke to her high school civics class. He reportedly asked her out and the pair went on to date for a few months.
She recalled her mother saying she was “the luckiest girl in the world” that Moore wanted to date her, noting that he “had this godlike, almost deity status” in Gadsen, Ala., The Post reported.
Gibson alleged that she and Moore only kissed twice and said in retrospect, she’s “glad nothing bad happened.”
“As a mother of daughters, I realize that our age difference at that time made our dating inappropriate,” Gibson told The Washington Post.
Three other women in the report also accused Moore of sexually inappropriate behavior when they were teenagers, including one woman who alleges she was 14 at the time.
Moore’s campaign labeled the allegations “baseless” and “the very definition of fake news.”
So fricking what? Moore doesnt even deny knowing that girl.
Clinton is so 30 years ago, get over it. Moore is the problem now.
And the Washington Post wasn't exactly forthcoming about that particular conflict of interest, was it? Maybe they didn't want to give out too many clues combined with the timing of this what a political hit job it is.
Or, maybe there is no there, there as far as it being a "political hit job". Even if there is a 10% chance this is all true, Moore needs to step down.
From 37 years ago? Or is it 40. My, how your standards waver
This woman has waited almost 40 years to publicly make the allegation that Moore tried to molest her. Moore was never charged or convicted of anything so he is just as clear of criminality as Hillary’s lying ass was when she ran for President. If Democrats didn’t urge Hillary to drop out because she was under a criminal investigation by the FBI, in addition to the mountain of other allegations against her, then they really have a lot of nerve wondering why Moore doesn’t drop out over this.
The statute of limitations for charging Moore with anything has long since passed and, at this juncture, the allegation is basically character assassination. What it does is flip the presumption of innocence that would normally fo in Moore’s favor to a burden on Moore to prove his innocence 40 years after the fact. Nobody knows where they were every day 40 years ago. If this woman had brought the charge in a timely fashion, then Moore may have been able to produce witnesses who could rebut her allegations. By this time, however, people have died and memories have faded. What would you do if somebody you don’t even remember meeting accused you of doing something 40 years ago that you know you didn’t do? It all creates a situation where Moore is being set up under circumstances where he can’t defend himself. That’s exactly why we have statutes of limitations.
Dating teenage girls is not a crime if they are at or above the age of consent. The age of consent is 16 in Alabama so girls at that age can date whomever they want and any man can date them. Clearly, dating teenage girls was no big deal at that time and in that area since one girl’s mother thought her daughter would be lucky to even have a shot at Moore. And Moore’s idea of a “date” seemed like something off a 1950’s TV show where he plays a guitar rather than look for sex.
What’s truly odd is that we have sunk to the point where Democrats would call Moore a trailblazer if he had dated a man or was a part-time drag queen but is creepy for dating a young woman.
Someone would remember taking high school girls on dates when you were 32 at the time. The fact is Moore has already shown consciousness of guilt. He should quit.
Good for him, it shows us old guys can be pursued by a 21 year old and, still have a consensual affair in the office.
Its not illegal to date high school girls who are at or above the age of consent so it doesn’t matter whether he did it or not or whether he remembers it or not. If high school girls find him interesting, then good for him.
Molesting a minor is a different issue. He would obviously remember that but he said he didn’t do it. If a women came forward and publicly said that YOU molested her 40 years ago but you know you didn’t molest anybody and you don’t even remember her, what would you do? Quit your job? Move away? And why should he quit just because somebody makes an allegation? Hillary didn’t quit and she had enough allegations against her to capsize a battleship.
SHE chased HIM, she already said that in her testimony back in the 90's, he accepted. Whether he should have is between him, Hillary and, Monica, let them work it out. Moore on the other hand IS a piece of shit that should hold office.
The slut shaming never ends. It's all her fault. how could a 50 year old man possibly be expected to control himself?
Monica's own words,
WASHINGTON (AP) — Monica Lewinsky says there's no question her boss — Bill Clinton — "took advantage" of her when he was president.
But she says their affair was consensual
None of that is illegal.
However, what Moore is accused of with a 14 year old is illegal, even in Alabama.
Sure it does.
No it doesn’t. If it’s legal, then he can do whatever he wants and doesn’t owe anybody any explanation at all . . . now or 40 years ago.
How does one little girl chase the President of the United States? And, she above all others, was accepted to the task of supplying, not only the cigar, but a means to an end.
That depends on how many corroborating witnesses there are......if there were 30+ as there are in Moore's case I'd probably change my name and move to a different country.
So, there are 30 plus people she told at the age of 14 about her encounter. But, she didn't tell her mother.
So if I tell 30 people that I was kidnapped by aliens and taken to Mars that means my story has been corroborated by 30 people?
She told her friends at the time and told her mother 10 years later. That's not surprising since she was sneaking out of the house to see Moore.
What it means is that the girl told her friends at the time it happened and told her mother 10 years later. So regardless of whether the claim is true or not it shows that the claim was made at the time of the alleged molestation.......not as part of a conspiracy against Moore 40 years later.
Funny that you don't get that. And if it were a conspiracy don't you think a claim of rape would have greater impact rather than a claim that a guy in his 30s was trying to date young teens?
Just because you tell other people the same thing doesn’t make it true. Trump told the entire world many times that he’s worth $10 billion. Democrats still don’t believe it. And I didn’t say it was part of a conspiracy. Instead, I said it was part of campaign attack by Jones’ newspaper, WAPO. Funny you don’t get that.
It’s having the desired impact just as it is.
And the big, grown up, married, president of the United States couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong? Gotcha.
You know there is a difference between accused and 'did' right?
Well since he is a liberal/progressive/democrat. The difference is as follows:
ACCUSED: If the subject is a liberal/progressive/democrat it means they are innocent regardless of any and all evidence they are guilty as sin.
There is no corresponding definition if the subject is a conservative/republican.
DID: An action that regardless of evidence, no liberal/progressive/democrat can ever be if it it wrong.
Any a conservative/Republican is ssid to have done regardless of the lack of any evidence that they actually are guilty of something. A rumor that ones mother's third cousin's exhusbands friends boss said it is good enough for a liberal to claim a conservative is guilty.
I guess if she said that Roy Moore is the Zodiac killer and told 30 people what she thought, then her story was corroborated by 30 people and old Roy is guilty of murder.
True, and I, basically, am saying the same thing.
I know and I’m backing you up. We should have one fair standard that applies to everybody and is applied equally.
Ted Kennedy was accused of propositioning minor interns in 1990 by reporter Michael Kelly.....
Result, Reelected overwhelmingly by Democrats. Putting away leaving a women to drown while he tried to establish an alibi, he also was chasing young, minor, interns while a Senator.
Take a look at all the glowing tributes given to this scumbag by democrats just a few years ago.
Proves memorys are short, especially when it comes to politics, I remember both things happening and, I remember thinking how can they reelect him. I liked Bobby and, John, I didn't care too much for Ted.
Can you ever deal with what is happening NOW with YOUR PARTY? That deflection shit is really old. We don't give a fuck anymore because what is happening TODAY is relevant, not something dealt with publicly years ago, brought out whenever you need a 'squirrel' moment. Wait til some of the lawsuits against Trump hit the fan, unstoppable because of what republicans did to Clinton. Is that why you can't get them out of your head?
LOL
The point is that no one cares what people who have spent the last thirty years protecting and enabling sexual predators think about Roy Moore. You don't get to wake up today and pretend what your actions for decades aren't relevant. It's amazing how desperate democrats are to avoid dealing with their own actions.
The hypocrisy is stunning. You don't want anyone to bring up what you've done every day for the last thirty years (at least) to protect sexual predators, but then you turn around and claim the alleged actions of Judge Moore 40 years ago are the most relevant thing in the world politically.
Wait til some of the lawsuits against Trump hit the fan
And if Trump perjures himself, he should be impeached. I doubt Democrats will be consistent on the issue.
Sure knock yourselves out trying to deflect to a different political party. I've said over and over and over and over again that sexual harassment crosses all segments of society, from priests to doctors to republicans to democrats to business people to sales, actors, directors, bloggers, orthodontists, teachers........If believing your republican racist asshole is pure, I'm sure you'll sleep better tonight. Republicans would never ever sexually harass or hurt a woman or child, fear not. They are the only group immune to the failings of man, they are freaking perfect.
If Moore wins, then I guess they’ll be another stupid pussy hat parade.
And what's happening now is the corruption of the Democratic party has come to light and being investigated. And to think it all started with an unfounded accusation by a two time failed presidential candidate.
Don't forget about those ridiculous "RESIST" vagina costumes they wore!
If only Hillary and Komrades had kept their arrogant, entitled mouths shut the Dem Party wouldn't be in the corruption turmoil it's in today. She might have even been wearing her entitlement presidential tiara today.
All of them - Hillary, Bill, Obama, the Podestas, Comey, DWS, and so many of their ilk are crappy poker players!
Actually the Senate might vote him out.
Any Republican who voted for it would, himself, be thrown out by the electorate. But I doubt the weasels would have the spine to do it.
Frank Schaeffer, the son of Religious Right co-founder Francis Schaeffer.
crooksandliars.com? May as well post shit from RawStory.com, same same.
You do know what it means when there are quotation marks around the entire content don't you?
yes, do you?
I remember when I was in high school, there was a junior at the school who had an "affair" with one of the Southern Baptist preachers in town, it had been going on for a few years so, she had to have been underage when it started, it caused a big uproar in the community and, the pastor had to leave the church in disgrace, his wife divorced him and, continued at the church, the girl left school that year, her junior year and, was never heard from again, I think she went to live with relatives in eastern North Carolina, this happened in Western North Carolina.
My Mom, two sisters and I, never missed a Sunday of church, until the preacher hit on my Mom when I was about 12. No more church.
lol
I have a friend who was assaulted by her pastor, and was basically told the same thing - don't say anything, because he's doing God's work. She didn't even tell when his second fiance asked her, right before their wedding, if he'd ever touched my friend inappropriately, because there were rumors. She didn't say anything until years later.
Of course.
But there are all kinds of pressures on victims not to prosecute. Sadly, some of those pressures tend to come from those whom victims should be able to trust - close friends, family, etc. Pastors have authority within their congregations, and those who use their position to groom victims tend to know how to use that authority on both their victims and the rest of the congregation to either conceal or defend their crimes. Some congregations will put the church's reputation ahead of the victim's well-being.
Is linking to a political solicitation/donation site allowed on NewsTalkers?
The GOP has deserved to die for at least 30 years now, and have been increasingly deserving of such.
Yet it’s Hillary who just got buried. I dislike both parties but I did enjoy watching Hillary meet her end.
Congratulations. Nothing wins a debate as effectively as issuing a death threat upon millions of US citizens and legal immigrants.
Jasper, this is not a CoC violation. We're allowed to insult general groups of people, not individuals. D.
Interesting. I take this to mean that a user can wish death all Muslims, Jews, Christians, Democrats, Senators, etc., and still remain within NT's CoC. Thanks for clarifying this.
That's kind of rich considering the Democratic party and the supporting Leftist media manages to always dredge up someone ready to claim they were sexually harassed or assaulted right at the moment that a Republican candidate becomes the front-runner, gets nominated to something, or right before the election. Convenient, huh?
It's also pretty hypocritical considering the horrible character assassinations of good people (like the one done on Mitt Romney) or despicable